Play Hnefatafl Online.

The Viking board game.
Tafl against humans.
Тавлеи против людей.
There is an invitation for a game of Hnefatafl.
Opponent: teondrae, Oklahoma, United States
Tafl against the computer;
click on a board.
Play white
11x11
Play black
11x11
Play white
9x9
Play black
9x9
Rules / Regeln / Règles / Regler / Правила.

World Tafl Federation Hnefatafl Championship tournament 2014.

Congratulations to World Tafl Federation Champion 2014, Schachus, Berlin, Germany!
Forum.


  2015-03-01 21:59:33 teondrae: Thnx i can finally challenge others Thnx :) Thats a big improvement i think i can play others that play different styles i might lean more hehe

  2015-03-01 07:49:01 Hagbard: @teondrae: try again.

  2015-02-28 22:34:49 Hagbard: well, the full list is very long. But maybe this should be changed anyway?

  2015-02-28 21:16:29 sqAree: I meant *now, not "no". Any my point is that those matches can be refused by the challenged players in any case.

  2015-02-28 21:13:20 sqAree: Well, with my current rating I'm no finally allowed to challenge the highest rated players but I remember this rating range annoyed me too when I was lower rated. What's the reason for that anyway?

  2015-02-28 20:33:58 teondrae: Schachus has no invitations up?? And i wanna play him one game thats it. i wanna be black and see if he is ablt to beat me lol

  2015-02-28 20:31:24 Hagbard: sqAree is within reach and very strong. And you can hurry to accept open invitations from Schachus.

  2015-02-28 20:11:33 teondrae: Hagbard? Yes i wanna know a way i could challenge someone that is higher than me but i can only go so far up?? Am i able to request for a request to challenge schachus? I have been able to accomplish and beat The Famous Crust that took forever. Hes a great strong player. But i wanna play stronger now? Is that an option for me?

  2015-02-25 21:19:39 animals: Joins New Players' Tournament March, Sea battle tafl 9x9

  2015-02-25 18:11:27 Hagbard: @Schachus: I suppose it would be wise to move in the Schachus/Nath game where 12.5 days are already used.

  2015-02-25 18:06:46 Hagbard: Grandmaster tournament only: Now 2 days per move plus 15 days buffer. And Nath's timeouted game is restored.

  2015-02-25 18:04:41 Schachus: I have just gotten extra time in all my games compared to 1 hour ago.

I had used 14,5 13,6 and 14,2 days respectively(so was close to timeout in all games). Now only the first game shows a warning (12,5 days used, the other two don't). Additionally, the archive page shows different values (for example 16,something in game 1 which would mean, I had already lost on time and is clearly wrong.)

I was going to move in all games this evening to avoid loss on time. Are those 2 days taken away again, or can I afford to wait a little now?

  2015-02-25 18:02:43 crust: as long as it isn't part of a tournament; that could seriously inconvenience other players, who have not agreed to it

  2015-02-25 17:13:30 altti: I like the idea of suspending the time limit as an option with both players agreeing to it.

  2015-02-25 16:58:48 crust: to Nath; sorry you lost on time, that's a shame, as I would have lost.  Should there be an option to play with no time limit at all?  We definitely do not want to lose you as a player  :(

  2015-02-25 15:27:31 nath: I don't want to put any pressure at anybody, but the time limit as it is prevents me form playing any games. I just lost a game where I moved quite fast the last 10 moves in a position that can be won easily again. This isn't a game anymore, if I'm forced to move every day. I have other things to in my life.

  2015-02-25 10:01:31 test1: Joins New Players' Tournament March, Sea battle tafl 9x9

  2015-02-24 00:18:51 crust: @Teondrae:   anomalocharis@hotmail.com

  2015-02-23 22:56:06 teondrae: @crust okay so got an email and ill email address and name??

  2015-02-23 22:17:18 Hagbard: There is, +/- 300 points as sqAree found out. But open invitations can be accepted by all players.

  2015-02-23 20:53:37 Schachus: I dont think, there is a rating limit, at least there wasn't some time ago. I have been challenged by players more than 300 points below me in the past.

  2015-02-23 08:26:42 Hagbard: @Cantlose: Tafl against other tafl players - Invite for a new game - More variants - Choose games and opponents

  2015-02-23 08:12:56 crust: to Teondrae:  OK, you deserve it; give me some time though :)  Also I will need a name and address...

  2015-02-23 07:32:23 sqAree: @Cantlose: It's possible to invite other players to games. The games start immediately, so they are refused by not doing any move within three days.
Although there seems to be some random rating limit of 300 points difference max.

  2015-02-23 04:39:18 Cantlose: Hey Hagbard?? How come we can not send challenges to other players? like i miss that idea. I think you could totally bring that option back but make it where the player that been challenged has to accept it before it is the games list of games??? Kinda a great idea i think!!!!? Check it out if you can please? and thnx

  2015-02-23 04:37:15 teondrae: I want a Grand master trophy Tim. :) I worked hard for the last 4 months or so ive played to achieve this goal. :) hehehe.... Honestely hardest achievement ive done in my life for a goal that took the longest amount of time. Im feeling great over one game lol...

  2015-02-17 10:14:56 Hagbard: To the new players of the Saami tournament: Of course Altti isn't quite a new player but actually our best Saami player. So the real New Player winner of the tournament will of course be no. 2. Perhaps the new players can take the opportunity to be coached a bit by Altti and learn something about how to win the Saami tafl.

  2015-02-16 23:17:56 altti: @ hagbard thank you ☺

  2015-02-16 09:26:51 Hagbard: @altti:
h t t p s://w w w.youtube.com/watch?v=Oz8RjPAD2Jk

  2015-02-16 08:57:46 crust: @World - more hnefatafl and less stabbing and shooting please, thanks

  2015-02-16 03:27:22 altti: makes me wonder why he was allowed free.

  2015-02-15 22:48:34 crust: Wow.  What a loony.

  2015-02-15 20:36:37 Hagbard: Here is the same man a year ago hacking a knife in a random passenger in an S-train in Copenhagen:
h t t p://denkorteavis.dk/2015/gerningsmanden-var-en-kriminel-fra-bandemiljoet/

  2015-02-15 20:26:51 crust: Thoughts are with the people of Copenhagen

  2015-02-14 09:57:04 Hagbard: No change made. It's on the todo-list that I'll have to check it some day.

  2015-02-14 09:02:46 Schachus: Not it has been corrected(?) to 0,7 days

  2015-02-13 19:39:14 Schachus: I believe there might be a bug in the time usage display in the games archive. For my white game with nath, I'm shown the following:
Schachus / Nath. Tournament 32 Copenhagen Hnefatafl 11x11, 18 moves, 2015-02-13 00:04:39, ongoing
(Schachus used 14.6 days of time buffer, limit 15 days)
(Nath used 13.4 days of time buffer, limit 15 days)
*** Warning *** Schachus used 14.6 days of time buffer (limit 15 days).
*** Warning *** Nath used 13.4 days of time buffer (limit 15 days).

My time seems to be right but his not, I'm sure he had much less used time, when I moved yesterday. Also, in the games List, there is no timeout warning shown for him(correctly so, but in contradiction to what the archive pages says).

  2015-02-11 01:18:38 Fireball: Joins New Players' Tournament February, Saami Tablut 9x9

  2015-02-11 01:18:19 Fireball: Joins New Players' Tournament February, Saami Tablut 9x9

  2015-02-09 08:05:42 Hagbard: :) ! The forum shows; that was the day.

  2015-02-08 12:16:41 crust: Happy birthday to Copenhagen Rules Hnefatafl, three years old on the 2nd February!

  2015-02-07 19:25:57 Hagbard: Anytime when more of the Copenhagen tournament is completed. The Saami tablut is a rather different game, and it will probably be too difficult for new players to handle both Copenhagen and Saami at the same time.

  2015-02-07 19:18:54 Teondrae: When does that Febuary tournament start?

  2015-02-07 18:37:40 xerxes: Thanks Hagbard - that makes sense.

  2015-02-07 18:34:40 Hagbard: That's because the second opponent is a quite new player and then you win/lose less points.

  2015-02-07 17:09:04 xerxes: On the subject of rating points - I'm playing a couple of games of Copenhagen as black at present.  One of my opponents has a rating of 1183.  If I win the prediction is +5, and if I lose it is -27.  Seems reasonable.  My other opponent has a rating of 1414, and the prediction is +1 for a win and -1 if I lose.  Doesn't seem right to me, I thought I would get more points on the rating if I were to win against a higher-ranked player ?

  2015-02-06 18:38:45 Hagbard: - got a point there...

  2015-02-06 16:53:29 sqAree: People should play Hnefatafl because they enjoy Hnefatafl, not because they want to prevent losing virtual rating points.

  2015-02-06 16:00:02 Hagbard: But it would be for any timeout, also ordinary games. To encourage fewer time outs. Could also be losing only 1.5 times the rating points.

  2015-02-06 15:23:19 sqAree: No no, losing double rating points is a punishment completely unrelated to the offence. Removing a player from a tournament in case of more than half of max possible timeouts is a cool solution. His other games should be rated as usual.

  2015-02-06 10:45:49 crust: To Hagbard:  I like the idea of eliminating the worst time-outers, it would streamline the championship tournament.

  2015-02-06 06:58:11 Hagbard: What about animals' idea: "A player who times out loses double rating points" ?

  2015-02-06 06:28:25 Hagbard: A championship tournament rule: "A player who causes more than half of his Round 1 games to time out, cannot proceed to Round 2."
would've disqualified DavBerd, arthur, taschenguger, scottdbarber and dansuno from Round 2, which clearly would've been a sane decision.

  2015-02-06 04:40:55 sqAree: Half the games seems fine because it's not possible to lose a tournament due to the timeout rule when you actually have won already.

About the second timeout case: I don't see the point at all, player A is free to use all his time and it's ONLY player B who caused the timeout.

  2015-02-05 21:00:21 mike0127: Joins New Players' Tournament February, Saami Tablut 9x9

  2015-02-05 20:11:54 Hagbard: And another timeout case: Player A disappears 16 days and then moves, player B in the meantime lost interest, disappeared and times out. But player A caused the timeout?

  2015-02-05 19:52:47 Adam: Unlikely situation I admit. But possible.

  2015-02-05 19:50:54 Adam: This timeout thing is tricky. I suspect each disqualification case would need to be looked at by a referee. Suppose a strong player is  playing 16 games, they win 9 easily, then decide not to continue with the tournament. Resigning or timing out.  In the early rounds this should be a disqualification so that the results don't skew the progression.

  2015-02-05 13:35:21 animals: Maybe a player who times out should lose double points?

  2015-02-05 12:54:09 animals: Joins New Players' Tournament February, Saami Tablut 9x9

  2015-02-05 11:48:46 Hagbard: My suggestion to draw the line is: A player who causes more than half of his games to time out.

  2015-02-05 11:22:31 sqAree: And where do you want to draw the line? Should that also apply to a player with only one timeout (maybe even in a lost position)? I can see your point, however I don't see a fair way to fix this issue..

  2015-02-05 11:16:35 xerxes: Yes, but in a competition I think it is rude to the other players to time out over 15 days rather than resign a game that you don't intend to finish.  And someone who time outs 21 out of 24 games clearly hasn't taken the competition seriously and should have their results expunged.

  2015-02-05 10:52:41 sqAree: A timeout is just a different way to resign a game. Certainly annoying for the opponents, yet it's a legal way to end a game. I mean, there are probably some games that have been resigned in spite of a winning position, which is essentially the same as timing out.

  2015-02-05 10:03:35 xerxes: Ref the timeout games and competitions.  I think that if a player fails to complete a game in a competition, all his games should be expunged from the competition.  It is unfair on those who have lost a game to a player who subsequently fails to complete his other games giving the other competitors wins that they might not have had.

  2015-02-05 06:59:22 Hagbard: - And so it's good practise to always complete games, because it's very important for statistics counts. (and annoying for the opponent to wait 15 days for a win).

  2015-02-05 06:50:42 Hagbard: Immediately of course. Opponents' timeouts are your wins. Otherwise nobody would ever lose, they could just time out when things look bad.
Oh, but another thing: you get the rating points from the timeouted game, but the game count in the paranthesis is unchanged. It counts the number of completed games.

  2015-02-05 01:52:24 Teondrae: When will they count as wins?

  2015-02-04 06:31:03 Hagbard: You certainly won, but apparently halldav3 made himself scarce before the last two moves so that you won by timeout. Same with Asmo.

  2015-02-04 03:26:29 Teondrae: The New Players Tournament I won against Hav8 and it is timed out :( why is it timed out I did win.

  2015-02-03 09:22:19 Hagbard: Signed in for New Players' Saami Tablut 9x9 tournament till now: mmagari, teondrae, xerxes, nasemaser, altti and cantlose

  2015-02-02 21:51:00 cantlose: Joins New Players' Tournament February, Saami Tablut 9x9

  2015-02-01 20:03:07 Hagbard: Any French speaking players who'll correct the errors in this French sentence?
The king himself is captured when the attackers surround him in all four cardinal points. When he is on a square next to the throne, the attackers must occupy all surrounding squares in the four points of the compass except the throne.
The king cannot be captured on the edge.
Le roi lui-même est capturé quand les attaquants l'encercler des quatre côtés. Quand il est sur une des cases à côté du trône, les attaquants doivent occuper toutes les cases environnantes, sauf le trône.
Le roi ne peut pas être capturé en bordure.

  2015-02-01 06:11:27 Hagbard: @Altti: I know it's your favourite, I found that out myself in many games... Perhaps the new players could be warned af a great white shark in the pool.

  2015-02-01 02:30:51 altti: I don't qualify for the tournament. I would so enjoy it though. my favorite variant. ☺

  2015-01-31 18:16:04 altti: Joins New Players' Tournament February, Saami Tablut 9x9

  2015-01-31 17:30:02 nasemaser: Joins New Players' Tournament February, Saami Tablut 9x9

  2015-01-31 08:19:02 Hagbard: Signed in for New Players' Saami Tablut 9x9 tournament till now:
mmagari, teondrae and xerxes

  2015-01-30 19:59:21 Schachus: ah, perfect :)

  2015-01-30 12:01:34 Hagbard: @Schachus: At the bottom of the "My current games" page, click Enter for "Show my games and time buffers used".

  2015-01-29 21:54:25 Hagbard: A red-letter day! The Hnefatafl Championship tournament 2014 completed today after 5 months; the last Round 2 game took 112 days.
The championship winner, Schachus, won all his games, 16 points, grand slam, full house!

  2015-01-29 13:42:55 Schachus: That sounds good, Hagbard :), but I would still like to know, how much buffer I have left. Somehow this Info has disappeared in my games.

  2015-01-29 13:02:32 xerxes: Joins New Players' Tournament February, Saami Tablut 9x9

  2015-01-29 09:24:32 Hagbard: Seems to work (in effect only from Jan. 25th):
Time buffer 15 days.
1 day per move, whereafter time buffer is used.
If a move is done within 12 hours, then 0.1 day is restored to the time buffer.
If a move is done within 6 hours, then 0.2 day is restored to the time buffer.
If a move is done within 3 hours, then 0.325 day is restored to the time buffer.
When the time buffer is used up, you'll still always have 1.5 day for your current move, and thus can never time out until after 1.5 day.

  2015-01-28 16:58:02 Hagbard: Yes, there are differences.

  2015-01-28 16:34:56 Adam: @Schachus/Hagbard: could it be that the main rating includes games played long ago, including models no longer used, while the 'All games' rating here only includes currently active game types?

  2015-01-28 06:54:49 Hagbard: Players who have both Magpie-1 and Magpie-2 games running, please remember:
Magpie-1: King *cannot* be captured on the edge.
Magpie-2: King *can* be captured on the edge.

  2015-01-27 23:13:47 Hagbard: Don't quite know.

  2015-01-27 22:47:38 Schachus: How come that overall list is different from the currently used ratings?

  2015-01-27 21:54:57 Hagbard: The full list is in
h t t p://aagenielsen.dk/separate_ratings.php

  2015-01-27 16:00:46 Adam: Very nice to see. The Tafl games we are settling on as the ones that function well require such different strategy that I think we can expect to see specialists in each game. That certainly seems to be the case here.

  2015-01-27 15:50:24 Hagbard: Separate rating lists for each variant have sometimes been demanded for. A separate calculation shows:
Copenhagen Hnefatafl: 1. Schachus, 2. Nath.
Fetlar Hnefatafl: 1. Plantagenêt, 2. Crust.
Berserk Hnefatafl: 1. Adam, 2. Nath.
Saami Tablut: 1. Altti, 2. Hagbard.
Sea battle tafl: 1. Duhawk93, 2. Arne64.
Brandubh: 1. Crust, 2. Hagbard.
All games: 1. Schachus, 2. Plantagenêt.

  2015-01-27 15:40:49 Hagbard: At the bottom of the "My current games" page, click Enter for "Show my games and time buffers used".

  2015-01-27 15:36:35 teondrae: Joins New Players' Tournament February, Saami Tablut 9x9

  2015-01-27 15:36:10 teondrae: Joins New Players' Tournament February, Saami Tablut 9x9

  2015-01-27 09:55:51 Schachus: strangely, the line "Schachus used x.x of y days of time buffer" is not shown anymore in my games...

  2015-01-26 19:13:55 mmagari: Joins New Players' Tournament February, Saami Tablut 9x9

  2015-01-26 14:38:26 mmagari: Joins New Players' Tournament February, Saami Tablut 9x9

  2015-01-26 08:19:27 test1: Joins New Players' Tournament February, Saami Tablut 9x9

  2015-01-24 09:56:58 Hagbard: A Roskilde Viking ship is visiting China:
h t t p://w w w.vikingeskibsmuseet.dk/nyheder/archive/2015/january/article/vikingeskib-paa-vej-mod-kina/

  2015-01-22 21:03:53 Hagbard: @Schachus: it must have been.

  2015-01-22 10:52:43 Hagbard: My invitations are for three doubtful rule combinations and one more, to learn more about how they work or not.

  2015-01-21 09:34:52 Schachus: Was the Duhawk-Plantagenet championship game drawn by agreement?

  2015-01-20 11:44:47 Hagbard: Example: A player does 5 quick moves and thus restores 1 day. Leaves for 3 days and uses netto 0.5 day from the time buffer. In a 100 moves game he'll use in total only 5 days from the time buffer. And still the game will last no more than 166 days.
It also won't be a kangaroo game, because a player can leave for 9.5 days, then make 40 quick moves to restore the buffer, preparing to leave again, but alas, instead the game is already finished...

  2015-01-20 11:13:08 Hagbard: Or? :
More than 1.5 day for a move: time buffer used, nothing restored.
Less than 1.5 day: 0.1 day restored.
Less than 0.75 day: 0.2 day restored.

  2015-01-18 16:44:33 nath: I don't mind the idea of having different time formats. But if we want to do so, we shouldn't let this depend on the player but on the game. If two players want a qick fun game I don't see why should forbid that, if they both agree on the time control. I like the idea of custimize the time control of games you offer.

  2015-01-18 16:41:23 nath: I am busy like 80 % of the time. If you don't want busy persons to play you loose a lot of players like me.
I have no problem with finishing games in a reasonable period of time. I have no problem of limiting the time a player can use. My real problem is that you have to move the whole time. Even when you several busy points spread over the week the first thing that suffers are hoobys like this game. If you instantly time out, the fun is gone. I don't a problem with a short time control in general, but with the situation to give no agency at all. I don't need more than 2 games for a move. In fact I would accreciate to have at most 1 day per move and at least 0.5 days add to the time buffer. Cuerrently we are starting with 15 days buffer. Why not starting at 2-5 days (and still cap on 15 days)? If would give 1 day+1day buffer per move, we still ensure a player has the opportunity to move before the buffer is affected and also ensured some steady supply to the buffer.  A usual game has less than 80 moves. With the current system in 80 half-move game a player would have up to 79 days. With 1 day+1 day time buffer (and 2 days starting so starting at 10-13 daysed time buffer) we would have up to 82-85 days. For a 60 half-move game (which seems to happen more often) you have 63 days with the current system and 62-65 days with my new suggestion. The real point that was talking about is not the total amount of time, but the opportunity to really leave this site half a week unvisited

  2015-01-18 13:27:14 Hagbard: Thanks, corrected

  2015-01-18 12:28:40 crust: can't seem to invite for a new game off the first page (default page), but if I click on "other variations" and invite from the next page, it works fine.  Maybe a bug?

  2015-01-17 01:04:35 crust: That would be good :)

  2015-01-16 22:19:56 Hagbard: If Fairland experienced this with a whole class of beginners, then perhaps Copenhagen can as well be the default from start?

  2015-01-16 21:36:44 Fairland: I would like to put some cents into that one as well! With the Hnefatafl club, we played Fetlar for a grand total of two days. It was used as the introduction to hnefatafl, but as soon as each member had played at least one sample game as white and one as black, we explained Copenhägen rules and we switched. I left the choice up to the students, but they naturally saw Copenhägen as the superior rule set because of its ability to negate draw forts. From this data, I have concluded that if players are "raised on Copenhägen" they would enjoy the game just as much without any jarring rule changes down the road.

  2015-01-16 06:45:31 Hagbard: The meaning is: Beginners - default Fetlar; experienced players - default Copenhagen. Copenhagen is thought to be a bit too complicated for beginners, and Fetlar is nearly the same game but simpler.

  2015-01-16 06:31:32 sqAree: When inviting for a new game "Fetlar Hnefatafl 11x11" is pre-selected. Clicking "more variants" shows the list of available variants but now "Copenhagen Hnefatafl 11x11" is default. Spotting an inconsistency..

  2015-01-15 00:16:56 altti: in the chess correspondence games I used to play via postcard (before PCs) you had as much time to think as you would like. each player was good enough to get the move done in less than a week and then it took about a week to get it through the mail. in face to face tournaments there is a clock which changes the game to favor more experienced players, as it should be for a tournament. I haven't played chess via PC or in tournaments this century so I don't know what they have implemented. catan website play has a two minute limit per move at which time the other players can elect to remove the delaying player.

  2015-01-14 20:42:00 Adam: Also, as this is correspondence chess, this isn't really even about thinking time, its about ensuring there is time to respond. The 1.5 days does that. The buffer is really only there in case one is unable to respond for a day here and there. It is not 'thinking time'. Whether a person spends 30 seconds or 30 minutes thinking about their move is up to them. I find it hard to believe people are spending 30 hours or dare i say 300 hours thinking about a move. And if they are, its not really a board game any more, more of a bored game. This all boils down to how many games a person can reasonably commit to at any given time. If you are busy, simply commit to less games.

  2015-01-14 19:05:21 crust: I don't like the idea of two separate time systems; it seems likely to split our small group of players into two even smaller groups.  I can't see why anyone would want a game to go on for longer than 6 months, so I would rather keep to the new system that Hagbard has established.  Let us at least try it for a while.  One further point is that very long games are likely to drive away casual players, or players who also have the possibility to play in real life

  2015-01-14 17:32:54 Adam: All Naths points against the new timing system are exactly the same as all my arguments for implementing it... My point being that the time restriction is not there to ensure you have plenty of time to think, its there to ensure you don't take too long. Of course, we all have different lifestyles, so its not a level playing field, but it wouldn't be for any system. If we are to have a 'more time club' we will need a 'more time club rating table'. Think of the timer as an hour glass. When its not your move, the sand stops, when it is your move, the sand runs. At no point should the sand defy gravity and float back to the top.

  2015-01-14 16:19:01 Fairland: I am not a mathemetician, and anyone who has played me knows that I am not a particular y good strategical thinker either. But I have had zero trouble with the new timing system so far. And I think an entire school year (180 days in the U.S.) is more than enough time for one game. This comment is not to spark up more argument, I just wanted to throw in my two hay-pennies worth in as support for the new system.

  2015-01-13 19:42:51 Hagbard: By the way, by the present timing a 100 moves game can last half a year (176 days), which seems to be also quite some time to think about a game? And that's even without a More Time Club.

  2015-01-13 16:25:05 Teondrae: I like both ideas more time for a tournament sounds reasonabl to think about the moves but also I like to play quicker games so less time for an opponent to play me is nice so games go quicker. Cus I like to play :)

  2015-01-13 13:30:30 Hagbard: Anyway, some players prefer quick games, and some players prefer time to lift the games through careful analysis. That's two points of view, and nothing wrong with one or the other. I'm quite ready to introduce such a More Time Club, preferably with timing rules kept simple. I suggest for MTC:
2 days per move.
15 days buffer.
0.2 days restored per move.
MTC timing for normal games between MTC members, and normal (shorter) timing for everything else.
I hope that this sounds reasonable, and who wants to join the MTC?

  2015-01-13 12:42:37 Hagbard: (Speaking of timing, AreVidar and Olli finished a 100 moves game right now - 5 days!)

  2015-01-13 12:20:13 Hagbard: A game of 100 moves in the MTC will then last 250 days - a bit more than 8 months.

  2015-01-13 11:08:19 Hagbard: - and 2 days per move in the More Time Club instead of 1.5?

  2015-01-12 19:26:56 Hagbard: "Extra time" could be as simple as a double up: 15 days buffer instead of 8, and restored 0.2 days per move instead of 0.1?

  2015-01-12 19:19:33 Hagbard: It could work this way: All tournaments, normal timing. All normal games with both players members of More Time Club, extra time. All other games, normal timing. I'm sure it would have no perceptible effect on the ratings.

  2015-01-12 18:54:21 sqAree: I'd certainly join a More Time Club as time is a great tool to examine positions thoroughly. However, in my opinion it would be unfair to give certain players more time than others, even if the opponents gets it as well. We have a rating and a tournament system so we should have same conditions for everyone.

  2015-01-12 06:27:46 Hagbard: However, I guess that the timing need not be an involuntary straitjacket. We could make a More Time Club, so that when two members of this club play against each other, they'll get much more time for the game? Who will join a More Time Club of players?

  2015-01-11 22:10:05 Hagbard: An average Fetlar game is 60 moves. Let's say you're home 4 days in a week and away 3 days. So let's say you make 4 moves in a week, and the whole game then lasts 7.5 weeks. Every weekend you use 1.5 days from the buffer. So you need 11.25 days buffer. And you have buffer 8 days + 30 * 0.1 = 11 days, which is thus enough buffer.

  2015-01-11 20:38:53 nath: The concept of a 15 days time buffer+0.1 days increment has the simple problem that you never really gain time back. A usual game has a length of arround 60-80 moves - so you get 3-4 days back. So if you can't move at any time for more than 1.5 days, you consume your buffer. If you have for example three connected days a week where you can't move for various reasons you can't compense that fact now matter how fast you are moving during the three other days. I don't like that new system, because the 0.1 days force the player to hard to a specific way of living. A time control with 1 day+0.5 time buffer (while time buffer 15 or even 10 days) sound much more reasonable to me. I could also imagine to just a time buffer and no time beforehand (so you get for example 1.5 days per move). But 0.1 days is just lean...

  2015-01-11 20:29:45 Hagbard: Old timing rules not used anymore: 10 or 20 days per latest 10 moves.
New timing rules: 1.5 day per move and 8 or 15 days buffer.

  2015-01-11 18:55:40 teondrae: What are the old rules?

  2015-01-11 00:16:32 Hagbard: They would've timed out by the new timing rules, but they follow the old rules.

  2015-01-10 21:56:44 teondrae: The championship tournament has some games on timeout. I wanna see them finished?

  2015-01-09 10:16:21 sqAree: I wrote a small note in the large forum dealing with the copenhagen rules (accidently sent two times). Feel free to discuss there as soon as the post has been approved by an admin.

  2015-01-08 19:53:40 Hagbard: Besides, 8 days buffer is not really more strict than before. Because before, 20 days could be used for 10 moves. And with 8 days buffer, 24 days can be used for 10 moves (10 * 1.5 + 8 + 10 * 0.1).

  2015-01-08 17:07:32 Hagbard: Nath, Schachus and Plantagenêt are fond of long games and do a thorough work exploring unknown corners of the game, so these three could keep the 15 days buffer in games against each other?

  2015-01-08 11:10:49 Hagbard: What about a small change to the timing:
The playing activity is much greater in winter than in summer, and two weeks of holidays is more usual in summer than in winter.
Thus the timing could be changed into:
Games started summer (April - August): 1.5 days per move and buffer 15 days.
Games started winter (September - Marts): 1.5 days per move and buffer 8 days.
I've checked the current games, and everybody are already moving so swiftly that only 3% of the current games are in trouble with such a change (6 out of 173 games).
A change would only take effect for games started from now on.

  2015-01-07 14:02:44 sqAree: Has anyone ever thought about suggesting Hnefatafl as an event at the Mind Sports Olympiad? I think this would be a possible way to draw attention to Hnefatafl as a lot of strategic board game fans concentrate there.

  2015-01-07 11:54:26 sqAree: So, I registered for the large forum.

  2015-01-07 10:14:18 cyningstan: @Fairland, Magpie is an older rule set than the brandubh played on here.  It was designed for a book "The Leprechaun Companion" published in 1999.  The brandubh on here is partially based on my brandub rules from after 2004, with a bit of the reconstructed tablut (post 2010) thrown in.  The balance of any of these remains to be seen, but Magpie has enough pedigree to be worth having here.  And I'm happy that we have the same variety of 7x7 games as we do for the other board sizes :-)

  2015-01-07 08:26:03 crust: Hagbard, how about a link from here (or just below this box) to the exact page in the large forum, where issues arising from the 2014 championship tournament can be discussed?  At the moment it is complicated to find, and it would be good to gather a range of views.

  2015-01-07 07:23:00 Hagbard: Yes. If the two players never move, they'll hit the "1.5 day per move and 15 days buffer" wall after 16.5 days, and all their games will simply be removed from the tournament.

  2015-01-07 02:47:34 teondrae: Oh people in the new players tournament thee is a couple players that has not made one move yet on any games. Just wondering if the tournament has a time span to make a move or not?

  2015-01-07 01:47:18 Fairland: 8X8 doesn't work, there is no middle column with that setup. All hnefatafl board sizes are odd numbers. As for magpie, I haven't played it, but Brandubh was already balanced, I do not believe the rule changes presented by magpie maintain balance. Why mess with something that already works?

  2015-01-07 00:51:24 teondrae: Ive been playing Magpie-1 7x7 == My opinion i have not won as black and honestly think white has a huge advantage even with the king restrictions. I think that maybe turn it into an 8x8 and test it. It could give black a little better chance of defending. We should test that and see if it works out?

  2015-01-06 10:34:57 crust: to xerxes: if the game is a draw, both players get half a point.  The outcome of the tournament is decided by who wins the most points

  2015-01-06 09:00:57 xerxes: Drawn games in tournaments: What happens if a game is drawn in a tournament ?  Is it ignored and another game played ?  Thanks.

  2015-01-05 23:49:39 Teondrae: Thanks. :) lol I had no idea I could click on multiple bubbles and accept them all at once. :) I need people to challenge me lol I'm ready to lose and learn. Whoever thinks they can beat me extremely bad I want that challenge I'm not scared :) haha

  2015-01-05 23:43:16 Hagbard: - or if you want to invite for more variants, you can use the browser's go-back key and then click on another variant

  2015-01-05 23:27:33 Hagbard: You can do that already. Just click more games on the list.

  2015-01-05 23:24:52 Teondrae: Is it possible too update the website to join more than one game at a time? So i dont have to sign in 4 times lol

  2015-01-04 17:36:31 Adam: @SqAree: copenhagen edge forts are 'exit' forts, draw forts are not allowed in Copenhagen. So the goal of white is for the king to escape, either via a conventional corner exit,  or by creating an exit. Blacks goal is to capture the king.

  2015-01-04 11:26:33 Hagbard: yes, I think it could be possible

  2015-01-04 09:33:38 altti: can you streamline the game acceptance method to allow multiple games to be accepted at one time. I find it very tedious to have to go back to the page over and over again. I would accept more games if this was possible.

  2015-01-04 08:46:40 Hagbard: @sqAree: Thanks very much! It'd be fine to have the Copenhagen rules translated into German. You could send the translation to the email adress at the bottom of this page.

  2015-01-04 06:59:35 Hagbard: I wrote a championship evaluation on the large forum (seen from a technical angle).

  2015-01-03 21:43:21 Hagbard: @mmagari: tonythebook tells that you had some problems with reading the Fetlar rules. They are translated into French in the Rules page.

  2015-01-03 18:55:14 sqAree: @Teondrae: It's right at the tournament page, almost at thte very top.

@Adam: I guess then draw forts should count as a draw also. However, agreed, let's talk about it in the main forum as it's really not that easy.

@Hagbard: I would offer translating any ruleset of our tafl variants to German. Just tell me where to send my notes!

  2015-01-03 18:54:56 Hagbard: On the "Tournaments" page.

  2015-01-03 18:47:13 Teondrae: Where is the new players tournament box scores and games at for it?

  2015-01-03 10:05:55 Adam: @Nath, that's a lot to respond to, I suggest you open some posts in the large forum so we can discuss easier. In short response: the goal of black is to capture the king. Preventing his escape is only a prelude to capture. No capture, no cigar. The repetition should apply to black as to white. My reasoning I'll save for the forum as with the timeout issue ;)

  2015-01-03 10:02:42 Hagbard: After 5 months pause in test tournaments, perhaps we're ready for another one?
The "Magpie" game, read more about it on
h t t p://tafl.cyningstan.com/download/968/magpie-leaflet
It's really a Fetlar game, but the king can walk only one step at a time.

  2015-01-02 18:17:29 Hagbard: @xerxes: Copenhagen rules are found under page "Rules", "Copenhagen".
Timing: the usual 3 days limit for starting a game is suspended for tournament games, but it's better to do the two moves anyway.
Besides that, the timing is 1.5 day per move and 15 days buffer.

  2015-01-02 17:25:02 xerxes: Is there a summary of the tournament rules somewhere ?  The newbie tournament (tournament 30) has started, and I am wondering when the games have to be started by - I don't think I can handle 20+ games at once, so what happens if insufficient moves are made within the 3 day limit, does the game just get reset after 3 days ?

  2015-01-02 12:35:59 Hagbard: @nath: The longest ever Copenhagen game with white winner was 195 moves (and next, 187, 184, 161, 156).
The longest ever end game with no pieces captured, in a Copenhagen game with white winner was 56 moves (and next, 49, 42).
So all too-few-pieces-on-both-sides cases can be covered by the Chess fifty-move rule (in chess, that is 50 white + 50 black moves) something like this:
"If no capture has been made in the last 100 moves, then the attackers win."
Problem is that we play via the internet, so it could take half a year (180 days) to detect this rule violation.

  2015-01-02 11:52:02 crust: Congratulations Schachus!  Amazing performance in the 2014 World Championship tournament.  Nice to know there are 5 grandmasters again :)

  2015-01-02 11:25:15 cyningstan: @Hagbard: I had it that a piece could only be captured against a corner square.  Having checked Nigel Suckling's (archived) web site, it turns out the centre is hostile too, as in your version.

  2015-01-02 09:10:50 Hagbard: @cyningstan: Which details were changed? I checked again on your site and it looks like I did start from the updated rules.

  2015-01-02 08:28:22 cyningstan: My interpretation of the Magpie rules was formerly incorrect.  I've found the original source and corrected my leaflet, my print & play and my Java applet.  So if you've downloaded my Magpie leaflet as linked to on the Rules page here, then please download it again.

  2015-01-01 10:08:53 mmagari: Joins New Players' Tournament January 1st

  2015-01-01 08:41:42 Hagbard: @sqAree: because Asmo at the time had zero completed games.

  2015-01-01 05:11:50 Nath: For the computer implementation I suggest the following:
1. If a position repeates for the 3rd time with the same player to move, white loose.
2. If all corners are secured and white has at most 3+king left, white loose.
3. If all corner are secured and no edge has more than 2 connecting fields to reach with white left, white loose (this is a theretical rule change since I am ignoring very special cases where black might to be forced to give one edge away again...but seriously - all 4 edges are therened while all 4 corner are secured???).

Please notice: I NEVER talked about positions with one or more not-secured corners. (For determining whether a corner a corner is safe or not, I do the same we already do with shildwall captures). Since the procedure is resursive, the server might need 3-5 cpu ms to calculate that for an acctual position...but that shouldn't be a problem. If you need more complex things to proof that the position is safe by forcing white to repeat. I wouldn't mind humans to judge games where black has less than 12 pieces left.

  2014-12-31 18:26:38 sqAree: In my games against Asmo, why are the expected rating changes 0 in all cases?

Regarding the copenhagen rule issue: I am currently pausing a game until I know how this situation is handled.. But there aren't many days left before I timeout. And of course I still think it should be a black win, which is why I won't accept the draw for now.

If you have trouble implementing a black win detection, it would be fine to just update the rules and use a referee to decide these games.

  2014-12-31 18:11:23 Asmo: Joins New Players' Tournament January 1st

  2014-12-31 17:19:20 cyningstan: Yes, the central square is accessible only to the king (who can return there if he wants).  Other pieces may pass over it.  But it's not hostile to either side.

  2014-12-31 15:56:27 biscuitman: Joins New Players' Tournament January 1st

  2014-12-31 15:52:42 biscuitman: Joins New Players' Tournament January 1st

  2014-12-31 13:07:05 Hagbard: But even without a 3/4 capture in centre, do you then still have the special throne square in your description?

  2014-12-31 12:40:36 cyningstan: If you need 3/4 to capture the king in the centre then it differs from my rules - I use the tawlbwrdd rule where the king is captured on two sides everywhere.  Your interpretation might be better, but you might want to remove the "(Damian Walker version)" bit of the description so as to avoid confusion.  That's assuming you don't want to alter those rules now that games have been played with them.  Brandubh-4 anyone? :-)

  2014-12-31 12:32:20 Hagbard: Brandubh-2 Tablut 7x7 is implemented as described in your rules, that is king captured from 2 sides (except in center as far as I remember)

  2014-12-31 12:26:22 cyningstan: I've just noticed the new brandub variants, and have a bit more time on my hands now so will try to help with the testing.  Brandubh-2 is described as the "Damian Walker version" - can I confirm, then, that the king is captured on 2 sides everywhere?

  2014-12-31 07:34:05 Hagbard: That is, how can a computer detect this situation?

  2014-12-31 07:08:09 Hagbard: @nath: Interesting points. But again, if the Copenhagen too-few-pieces-on-both-sides were to be a black win, how could you make out that the game is in this situation?

  2014-12-31 03:49:03 Nath: Hopefully I didn't spam to much - a happy new year to all of you! :)

  2014-12-31 03:47:51 Nath: If white would try to, the position would be desided in favor for black...
I gave a very formal reason for my oppinion in the last posts. A reason based on rules and discussion we had so far. In fact my motivation to approach this topic is different. It's more based on the idea of SqAree and Schachus. We want to be an open community (at least I hope so). Thus we need a deep game (for our minds accesssable, but with deep underling problem) with easy rules. We don't want to hit new players with a 20 side rulebook. The carm in Hnefatal lies in the simple rules and mechanics. I can't think of another interesting game with such simple mechanics. And I want this mechanics easy accessable for new players rather than be hit by exclusive special cases. We should rewrite our rules in any case to clarify and simplify them, because we actually scare off beginners with our current confusing stuff. Hnefatafl can have much easier rules than other games like chess and we should take advantage of this fact.

  2014-12-31 03:36:04 Nath: Ruling this position, just because black has conquered one pice to much, as a draw, is more than counterintive, in fact it breaks with the philosophie we had. We agreed that draw forts (not only the ones at the center, but all of them) should be treated as a win for black. Why should we cast this special position differently? If black moves back and forward white is actually the stalemating player, because he neither try to escape nor try to built an edge fort.

  2014-12-31 03:30:10 Nath: The interesting fact is that we already judged about the three pice position than BEFORE we invented the shildwall capture in first place. There is a old rule (at least for our meassures) that prohibes permutal repition, so the thetending, i.e. stalemating player has to change. This rule in fact was never enforced against black and only enforced to prevent the white king from permutal attacks to different corners. If there only at most 3 white pices+king left, the only chance white could have is an attack at the corners. If it turns out to be a permutal check this rule should be applied. So the only critical position that is left is "all corners secured, white has least 3 men+king".

  2014-12-31 03:22:32 Nath: I think the new time control will lead to a lot of timeouts. I can't move every day. Even if I can move 4 days a week one time each, I will likely loose, because I loose (even if I move in all my games) 1-1.5 days during that 3 days. So I'd have to make 15 moves during the other 4 days...sounds crazy to me.
I don't want to sabotage any new creative attempts of new time control, but 0.1 days sounds to cruial to me. I also don't understand why I get punished if I move faster than 1.5 days since I loose that time totally. I like the idea of the time buffer, but I suspect the new system with 0.1 days will lead to good quality postal games.

  2014-12-30 18:39:41 mmagari: Joins New Players' Tournament January 1st

  2014-12-30 17:48:46 Adam: @Fairland/altti: I think its quite a common problem, and ultimately a reasonable argument for game type specific ratings tables, if just a few rule sets are eventually settled on. I find Aage's colour coded boards help a great deal. When I see a red board the Berserk rules pop right into my head. But I agree, the rule variations can play havoc with ones game at the corners!

  2014-12-30 15:42:37 altti: @ Fairland: I think my play has been affected the same way. though I enjoy tablut since I have such good results ☺

  2014-12-30 12:55:07 crust: @Adam: dwimmer-crafty!

  2014-12-30 11:15:34 Adam: @crust: I do just that if I have multiple rule sets running. I open a second window with the rules summary page. But if each games summary could appear on the page margin that might be helpful.

  2014-12-30 11:12:18 Adam: Oops, I think I said something like 'either time can run out or it can't. '

  2014-12-30 08:33:50 crust: It would help a lot to have the rules written next to the game board.  Not necessarily ALL the rules, but just the variations, e.g."king captured on 2 sides, wins in corner.  Throne is friendly to all pieces and the corners hostile to all pieces."  It would help to have that right in front of us while playing, especially when testing several variations that differ only slightly.

  2014-12-30 07:37:10 Hagbard: Signed in for the New Players' Tournament till now:
sqAree, teondrae, Noobchen, halldav3, xerxes, thegameterrorist, Calidesert, animals, mike0127, Sigurd

  2014-12-30 04:56:27 Fairland: My problem is dramatic change in strategy. A strategem that works like gold in corner 11X11 is suicide in edge. Using hnefatafl strategy in Brandubh will get you killed, and tablut is deceivingly different than the other two. I used to have a decently high rating here, then I started heavily play testing edge escape, Ard RI and Brandubh and have never been able to play Copenhagen since...

  2014-12-30 04:29:10 altti: I enjoy the testing and am grateful it does not affect ratings. but keeping the rule sets straight in my head is the difficulty

  2014-12-30 03:41:21 Sigurd: Joins New Players' Tournament January 1st

  2014-12-30 01:59:13 mike0127: Joins New Players' Tournament January 1st

  2014-12-29 22:00:15 Fairland: On a personal note, I am really excited to see the Brandubh variants being play-tested on the site! I would except Mr. Nielsen's challenge on every one of them, but I am finally starting to play a decent tafl game again and I don't want to ruin that progress with variant testing. :)

  2014-12-29 21:57:34 Fairland: On behalf of the Fairland Hnefatafl Club, thank you for the New Year's wishes!

  2014-12-29 17:46:53 Hagbard: Thanks a lot for the German translation!

  2014-12-29 13:17:26 Schachus: And of course, that would be "Nachbarfelder(n)" instead of "Nachbarquadrate(n)"

  2014-12-29 13:15:02 Schachus: I would write "Feld" instead of "Quadrat"( same as in chess, Quadrat would be the literal translation)

  2014-12-29 12:54:32 sqAree: Regarding rule number 7, I'd suggest: "Der König selbst wird gefangen genommen, [indem] die Angreifer ihn auf allen vier kardinalen Nachbarquadraten umgeben. Wenn er auf einem Quadrat neben dem Thron ist, müssen die Angreifer alle kardinalen Nachbarquadrate außer dem Thron besetzen.
Der König kann nicht am Rand[] gefangen werden."

  2014-12-29 11:16:59 Hagbard: Could one of our German friends please take a look at the Fetlar rules in German, especially point 7?
h t t p://aagenielsen.dk/fetlar_rules_german.html
And maybe Plantagenêt the rules in French, please, also point 7:
h t t p://aagenielsen.dk/fetlar_rules_french.html

  2014-12-29 07:52:02 Hagbard: Adam, what was the last part of your message about timeout? The message was cut off in middle of a sentence.

  2014-12-28 23:24:51 crust: Thank you Hagbard for your new year's message, I would like to say on behalf of all the players and users of this website, a very happy new year to you too; we appreciate your hard work, creativity, diligence, hospitality and of course friendship.  Godt Nytar!

  2014-12-28 22:52:01 sqAree: Okay, I just understood the new timeout system. Nevermind my comment.
However, I agree there should be a something showing the time usage at any time..

  2014-12-28 21:49:18 sqAree: In nowadays chess default mode gives you time back per move. It's not much but theoretically you can increase your thinking time by playing a lot of moves in a short period.

  2014-12-28 21:46:48 Adam: Hello all, and thank you for the new year greetings Hagbard. Just to throw in my thoughts on this timeout conversation. The idea with the new finite buffer is quite simple, it is so that the timeout is somewhat analagous to a chess clock, in that there ought to be a time pressure, which has a realistic chance of running out. The buffer is there for two main reasons, one, in case you need extra thinking time for a tricky move, and two, if you have a period where you can't get online. And yes, once you are in time pressure, you never get out. Like a chess clock, one is committed to the game, and the clock is ticking. Ever the diplomat though, If Hagbard can and wants to program it, I see no reason why there can't be an option (outside of tournaments) for players who don't want any time pressure, to choose just that, no timeout whatsoever. But this should not be a default setting. The idea of winning back time on your timeout seems rather odd within the chess clock analogy, either time ca

  2014-12-28 18:03:56 Hagbard: A Happy New Year 2015 to all tafl players! And best of luck to the World Tafl Federation, Fairland Schools Hnefatafl Club, Tromsø Tafl Laug, Fetlar Hnefatafl Panel, reenactment groups in all UK and in Tønsberg, the tafl milieu in Berlin and tafl players all over the world!
And a wish more for the new year: that the championship tournament 2014 could possibly be finished before the next one starts September 1st 2015...! ;)

  2014-12-28 18:03:28 Hagbard: Yes perhaps the time buffer used should be shown.

  2014-12-28 17:11:32 Schachus: One more question: Isn't the new timeout system in place for just 4 days? How come that there are already timout warnings according to the new system in some games? I thought this coulnt happen before at least 12 days have passed.

  2014-12-28 17:08:16 Schachus: Imo in the new timing system, it is a lot more important to always show time usage(not only with 3 days left). That is, because it is much harder to get time back, and when you see the warning, it might be "too late"(e.g. If in the future there is a period, in which you know you cant be online).

  2014-12-27 17:02:35 Schachus: I know, but that doesnt make it less unfortunate...

  2014-12-27 16:43:35 Hagbard: Yes I saw the Plantagenêt timeout. It was a timeout by the old rules, more than 20 days for latest 10 moves.

  2014-12-27 16:40:13 Schachus: I know, Hagbard.
I meant Plantagenet timing out in his game against me.

  2014-12-27 11:15:01 animals: Joins New Players' Tournament January 1st

  2014-12-27 09:40:09 Hagbard: Schachus, the tournament is *not* affected. The tournament still follows the same timing rule as from the beginning.

  2014-12-27 09:10:41 Schachus: This is an unfortunate way to (most likely) decide the tournament

  2014-12-27 06:54:58 Hagbard: Signed in for the New Players' Tournament till now:
sqAree, teondrae, Noobchen, halldav3, xerxes, thegameterrorist, Calidesert

  2014-12-26 10:29:37 Calidesert: Joins New Players' Tournament January 1st

  2014-12-24 14:42:44 Hagbard: New players: remember to sign in for the tournament, which begins 1st of January.

  2014-12-24 10:04:51 Hagbard: I suppose it's a yes to all the questions.
The method can be expressed as "1.5 days per move and a 15 days buffer." (Hat tip: Adam). The method also has a name on Wikipedia: "Time control", "Simple delay."
The theory is that the method results in an evenly running game. (Hat tip again: Adam).
As for never get out, I did add a small modification to the scheme: for every move, a player gets 0.1 days back to his time buffer, but such that the buffer cannot exceed 15 days. So for every ten moves, you do get one day back.
Anyway, the championship tournament is not affected.

  2014-12-24 09:22:22 Schachus: But that means, one doesn't ever get time back, even for moving quicker than 1,5 days?
Seems so, I made 59 moves against crust, that would be 88,5 days to use, but still I'm at 31,something. I definitely have not used 120 days(not even running so long), which would mean. I didnt get any time back for moving quicker than 1,5 days.

If so, I dont like this System, once in time prssure, you never get out!

  2014-12-24 01:54:45 Hagbard: The test calculation is: 1.5 days free for each move. Time used beyond that accumulates into the test number.

  2014-12-23 22:59:14 Schachus: And how is the number calculated?

  2014-12-23 21:45:30 Hagbard: It's test of a new timeout routine to replace the current one after the Championship tournament.

  2014-12-23 15:40:13 Schachus: What do those nubers mean(e.g test 12.1, test 34.6 an so on)

  2014-12-23 11:50:47 thegameterrorist: Joins New Players' Tournament January 1st

  2014-12-22 13:39:44 xerxes: Joins New Players' Tournament January 1st

  2014-12-21 18:33:54 altti: I agree with the draw option if the game is hopelessly stagnated without either player having to break the 3 move repetition, or capable of outright victory.

  2014-12-21 13:17:30 crust: in chess it's a draw if you get down to just kings, or king and one bishop or king and one knight.  Checkmate is impossible for either player, so: a draw.  If this is the case in chess, I son't see why this is not o.k. for hnefatafl

  2014-12-21 07:18:45 Hagbard: Other opinions on the Copenhagen too-few-pieces-on-both-sides draw/black win?
I can think of players who would like to abolish yet another draw situation.
But if it were to be a black win, how could you make out that you are in such a situation, which no side can win in any ordinary way?

  2014-12-20 20:57:23 halldav3: Joins New Players' Tournament January 1st

  2014-12-20 19:09:00 Noobchen: Joins New Players' Tournament January 1st

  2014-12-20 14:04:57 altti: in a tournament game with nath I was left with king and 3 pieces at which point I resigned as I could not break his hold on corners or hope to build a fort.

  2014-12-20 10:06:15 Schachus: I have to agree with SqAree there. The spirit of the rules should be "If white doesnt achieve a win(corner escape/edge fort) it is a black win". Basically, this is what it comes down to, actually, except for very few very special cases, that you discussed and that seem not quite in line with the spirit of the rules anyway. So this change would definitely clarify the rules and make them more accessiable for beginners

  2014-12-20 08:55:28 Hagbard: When white has king + 4 pieces, and black blocked all corners but otherwise has too few pieces, white would probably go for the edge win fort.
The meaning of the draw fort ban is that it's not allowed for white to barricade himself in an unbreakable fort or any other unbreakable position and just stay there without any attempts to win.
The specific formulation of a couple of the rules is determined by the necessity of the computer being able to detect that one or the other situation has arised. Thus an efficient way to detect any white draw fort and any other unbreakable white position is, that white cannot avoid repeating his position 3 times.
Your described situation with too few pieces on both sides is sort of a borderline case, where this detection method breaks down. On the other hand, in your described situation white could probably do thousands of moves before repeating 3 times, and it is really meant to end up as a draw by agreement.
The rules should probably be rephrased to clarify such things.

  2014-12-20 04:04:40 halldav3: Joins New Players' Tournament January 1st

  2014-12-20 01:32:02 sqAree: In this case I'd like to hear an explanation about the rule about draw forts. I'm not that used to the rules you guys are playing for a very long time ; I started playing just a few weeks ago. In my eyes the rule clearly states that in our given situation black could just move one piece repetitively and wait for white to repeat its board position three times, resulting in a black win. Also technically white could still build an edge fort with king + 4 pieces, so has not too few pieces to win.
So yes, I'm quite confused by the rules. We should at least rephrase the whole rule page ; it doesn't tell anything about draw as a possible outcome yet it seems possible..

  2014-12-20 00:11:36 crust: to SqAree. Sorry, I don't understand your last comment.  How is that a black win?  If both players have too few pieces to win, I would declare a draw.

  2014-12-19 22:53:38 sqAree: Thanks once again! If white got at least king + 4 pieces left it would count as a black win. Doesn't make much sense that taking an opponent's piece changes the outcome for you in a negative way (imho).

  2014-12-19 21:46:04 Hagbard: Games less than 4 moves (2 of each player) are discarded without rating.
About New Players' Tournament: yes, it's just a rough measurement of who are new.
About Copenhagen hnefatafl: there is of now not a definite rule to handle the described situation. So we used to say that both white and black have too few pieces to ever win, so the game will go nowhere and is voluntarily ended as a draw. But for the Championship Tournament the umpire will decide on the problem.

  2014-12-19 02:17:49 sqAree: About the bug: Thanks, and I'm glad because it told me my rating was affected..

About the New Year's Tournament: When I registered my rating was below 1550 and I had finished less than 50 games. Now I am 1550+ and finished exactly 50 games, can I still participate?

Furthermore a question about the rules of copenhagen hnefatafl: Suppose black has secured each corner but white has king + 3 or less stones. What will the result be?

  2014-12-17 19:53:09 Noobchen: Joins New Players' Tournament January 1st

  2014-12-16 15:12:35 Teondrae: I love playing games so everyone challenge me at copanhageon can't spell lol. But yea I've learned a lot from playing crust and others. Thnx for all the new moves I know. :)

  2014-12-15 07:29:05 Hagbard: About possible bug: Sounds like a multiple send of Enter. It has not happened before, and it did not affect the ratings.

  2014-12-15 01:10:44 teondrae: Joins New Players' Tournament January 1st

  2014-12-14 21:47:46 sqAree: I've got one question regarding a possible bug: A few days ago I accepted a Fetlar game and it immediately resigned itself for me, not even showing any pieces on the board. So, why is that, and how it can be fixed?

  2014-12-14 09:39:26 Hagbard: It's up to the new players. Sounds like it should be Copenhagen.

  2014-12-13 21:34:54 sqAree: Wait, if the New Player's Tournament uses Fetlar rules, I want to unregister!

  2014-12-13 19:17:43 sqAree: Joins New Players' Tournament January 1st

  2014-12-13 18:08:51 Hagbard: Either Fetlar or Copenhagen, our two defaults.

  2014-12-13 17:45:08 Plantagenêt: What will be the hnefatafl's variant of the new tournament?

  2014-12-13 17:10:02 test1: Joins New Players' Tournament January 1st

  2014-12-13 17:03:27 test1: Joins New Players' Tournament January 1st

  2014-12-13 09:20:23 Hagbard: Terrific!

  2014-12-13 00:16:58 crust: Awesome!  Copenhagen is my favourite too.  18 competitors is a pretty good size for a tournament;  Well done you Fairlanders, Oklahoma will never be the same again

  2014-12-12 22:36:58 Teondrae: Yes thanx lol I learned my skill from you. All those losses taught me a lot :)

  2014-12-12 22:17:03 Fairland: We used Copenhägen rules. We discussed Fetlar and Copenhägen during the early days of the club and the students voted on Copenhägen.

  2014-12-12 18:26:10 crust: Thanks for the update and well done Teondrae!  Which rule-set did you play?

  2014-12-12 15:43:30 Fairland: The Fairland Hnefatafl club has finished its first tournament! It presented unique challenges based on the "school club" system, but we finished it out and had a great time. Victors among the ranks here at aagenielsen.dk are: Teondrae, First place with all wins. Lance fourth place. and Big Irish, 13th. there were 18 competitors total.

  2014-12-12 14:01:14 crust: well played Unterwichtel!!

  2014-12-11 17:30:24 Hagbard: Midgård has completed, so Midgård and Udgård made it before Christmas! Hurraahh! ;)

  2014-12-10 19:08:55 crust: A big welcome to players from the hnefatafl club in Fairland, Oklahoma!

  2014-12-07 12:34:14 altti: yes, unfortunately for the Danes and the Estonians the German knights of the sword ended up with all the gains by the mid 13th century. Danish hegemony would have been preferable. the Swedes attempted an incursion the following year the Danes took Lyndanisse but were served a crushing defeat at Lihula.

  2014-12-07 08:11:36 Hagbard: By the way myth has it that the Danish flag Dannebrog fell from the sky during the battle at Tallinn 1219 (then Lyndanisse) and thus became the flag of Denmark. It's also said to be the oldest flag in the world still in use.

  2014-12-07 08:04:35 Hagbard: Listerby in Danish Blekinge was ravaged 1203 by pirates living on Estonian islands Øsel and Dagø (today Saaremaa and Hiiumaa). This was one reason why Danish king Valdemar Sejr attacked and conquered Estonia. And this again is why the name of the Estonian capital today is Tallinn, meaning Castle of the Danes.

  2014-12-07 02:46:14 altti: i have gifted a hnefatafl set with print outs of variant rule sets to the New York Estonian House (Eesti maja). I hope that this will encourage the revelers at the club bar to try their hands at the game of our ancestors. If you are ever in town look it up and drop in to challenge some Estonian vikings! Remember the hanging of King Grim at the hands of the Estonian and Curonian armies c410, and the sacking and burning of Sigtuna 1187, also the ravaging of Danish Lyster by Osilian piratica 1203  ☺

  2014-12-06 20:24:40 crust: congratulations Unterwichtel!

  2014-12-06 10:40:31 Hagbard: Unterwichtel is Champion of Midgård.

  2014-12-06 07:14:49 Hagbard: In this December time with few light hours, I'd want to draw attention to the ancient Viking poem The Hàvamàl. A poem full of wisdom:
h t t p://w w w.ragweedforge.com/havamal.html
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Hnefatafl is also known by the names Nefatavl, The King's Table, The Viking Game, Viking Chess, Tablut or simply Tafl.
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Можно здесь играть в тавлеи и против компъютер и против людей. Можно использовать кириллицы.
Many thanks to Gary and Christa (Germany), Ludovic Antoine, Nikolas Lloyd, Sten Helmfrid, Olga Mudrichenko, Dmitrij Polovinkin, John C. Ashton, Tim Millar, Adam Barkley, Nicolas Cartier, Gregory Binns, Fabio Capello, Rene Gralla, Damian Walker and Olli Salmi for their contribution to this site. And not least the more than 400 players the world over who here played more than 7000 real tafl games humans against humans and thus created a vast, practical experience with this intriguing, historical board game.
Updated 16.2.2015