Play the Viking board game Hnefatafl online | Viking Chess | Tablut | Nefatavl

Play Hnefatafl Online. The Viking board game.
World Championship Tournament started September 15th 2020.
See the tournament page.
National Tournaments started July 1st 2020.
See the tournament page.
Play tafl against humans.
Тавлеи против людей.
Rasmus Holbroe vikings
Artist: Copyright © Rasmus Holbroe (Jan. 2016).

Tafl against the computer.
Coming tournaments:
Simple Tafl 11x11, starting Nov. 8th 2020.
Tyr-3 13x13, test starting Nov. 15th 2020.
Sea battle tafl 13x13, starting Nov. 22nd 2020.
Go to the Play Tafl Against Humans page to join; the invitation is open for 7 days.
Small forum.
Code of Conduct. You should not post any abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful or threatening material. Doing so may lead to you being immediately banned for a period of time.
(On the second, large structured forum registering is normally disabled to keep spam robots out. Please give a tip-off if you need it opened for registering of a new user.)

  11-26/11:14 Hagbard:  The next could be
Saami Sáhkku 3x15 (Kåfjord)
Historical Hnefatafl 7x7 (Irish Brandubh 2)

  11-26/11:10 Draganov:  @Hagbard: Where I can find the schedule for the planned tournaments and see which one is going to be next? I would like to start playing other tafl variants except Copenhagen and would like to prepare myself in advance.

  11-26/11:00 Hagbard:  It's cyclic. The oldest tournament is started again. Then there've been the test tournaments of new variants, they're completed now.
At the moment no strong king tournaments, so as not to disturb the World Championship, which is a strong king tournament.

  11-26/10:44 Draganov:  @Hagbard: I have another question. Who decides when and what tafl variant to be the next tournament? I see that there is a section with coming tournaments but don't know where the players discussed about their start. Is there a process of deciding about the coming tournaments and some sort of discussions?

  11-26/02:41 Seeb:  Deregisters from the World Championship Tournament 2020.

  11-26/00:20 Abbas Agraphicus:  @Hagbard: that is real Tafl lore! 😁

  11-25/20:35 Draganov:  @Hagbard: Thank you for the link to the archive and the information about first Fetlar Championship.

  11-25/20:21 Hagbard:  The Simple Tafl 11x11 tournament finished with #1 Ded fomich, #2 Chaolaibhne, #3 Agmundr

  11-25/16:46 Hagbard:  - A small anecdote from Fetlar:
It is but a small island, and the tafl guests had to bring their own tents and live on a camping site.
The night before the tournament was strong wind, and Millar reported that all night sounded as if a swarm of pidgins flew around in the tent. - But as we know, Millar won the tournament anyway -

  11-25/15:51 Hagbard:  To my knowledge there's not an internet archive from the island Fetlar.
However there is a video from their first World Championship 2008 with notation:
https://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/456106/game-record-final-world-quickplay-hnefatafl-champi
Tim Millar ("crust") was involved in the Fetlar events and won twice up there.
Millar is the tradition bearer of the Fetlar game here, and especially the Fetlar games of "crust" against "Adam" stored in the archive here show how the game is played.
To search all way back in time, please use:
http://aagenielsen.dk/visallespil_soeg_nath.php

  11-25/13:58 Draganov:  @Hagbard: I have a question about the game archive. Is it possible to find somewhere on the Internet an archive for the games that were played on the Fetlar Hnefatafl Panel. Did they keep records of these games or they are lost for ever. As a Historian, it would be interesting for me to see how the game is developing over the years.

  11-25/02:35 p59xy:  Deregisters from the World Championship Tournament 2020.

  11-23/12:19 Hagbard:  Qualified for Round 3: Bogd Khan 8 pt.

  11-22/21:45 Hagbard:  Thank you! Replaced

  11-22/21:39 Abbas Agraphicus:  @Hagbard: Aage, I sent you another pdf with the pictures, can you please replace the other one? At first I didn't understand I should do the layout myself, sorry for the inconvenience!

  11-22/20:52 Hagbard:  @Abbas Agraphicus: Thank you! The rules are added

  11-22/19:21 Hagbard:  First to qualify for Round 3: Cacreal 8 pt.
Second lead in Fólkvangr: Bogd khan 7 pt.

  11-22/19:19 Hagbard:  The Tyr-3 13x13 tournament finished with #1 Jrton80, #2 Ded fomich, #3 Masterluke

  11-22/18:04 Abbas Agraphicus:  @Hagbard: I sent you the pdf by email. Let me know if everything's ok. Bye!

  11-22/14:40 Hagbard:  You could just write, that the defenders (white) lose repetitions (ten years of archive show that they always do)
pdf is a good format.
Email address is at bottom of this page.

  11-22/10:45 Abbas Agraphicus:  Cause in italian it sounds very odd to me, and I think that if I didn't know the rule already, I wouldn't understand it.
Maybe something like "if both players repeat the same move three times in a row, the player who started the repetition loses the game".

  11-22/09:26 Abbas Agraphicus:  @Hagbard: I have done the translation. Where do I send it and which file format do you prefer?
I sticked to the original as much as possible, to have an even interpretation in all languages.
But I have a question: isn't the last part of rule 8 a bit difficult to understand? I mean the part that goes "...the player who had the choice...".
Couldn't it be like "the player who started the repetition (scheme / pattern / ...) loses the game"?
I was just curious.

  11-21/22:43 Adam:  @dragonov apology accepted. And my apologies to you for not staying ahead of the buffer. As it happens all my remaining games times out today as I find it difficult to make time for moves on the weekends. A frustrating reality of correspondence games. But of course, a strict time limit is needed or we would never get a result! My apologies to my other opponents also.

  11-21/19:21 Hagbard:  @Abbas Agraphicus: Thank you! The Brandubh 2 is probably the more used because of the balance.
We already have fx. English and French:
http://aagenielsen.dk/brandubh2_rules_en.pdf
http://aagenielsen.dk/brandubh2_rules_fr.pdf

  11-21/13:31 mihkkal:  Ok! Thanks for the clarification

  11-21/13:21 Hagbard:  No draw fort in Historical Hnefatafl. Instead such a fort will end in loss by repetition.
The only variant with the draw fort is Fetlar Hnefatafl, because they decided to have it in Fetlar (the Fetlar Hnefatafl Panel).

  11-21/12:55 mihkkal:  Just wondering if  win by draw fort is coded into Tawlbwrdd. I thought I had made a draw fort in @mmagari's game against me but the game keeps going.

  11-21/10:54 Abbas Agraphicus:  @Hagbard: being myself italian and mostly interested in brandubh, I'd be happy to provide an italian translation of the rules. Maybe that could help other players to understand the game. Let me know if it can be useful. Bye.

  11-20/20:02 Draganov:  @Hagbard: Thank you for the explanation and your judgement. So, I will resign. However, it is really an interesting position :)

  11-20/18:58 Hagbard:  Very peculiar situation indeed. True, it is possible for white to repeat and impossible for black to stop it or destroy the white formation.
However, this formation is not among those formally considered an exit fort. Therefore white will be considered to repeat and to lose by repetition.
When you continue the game, the computer will detect the repetition.
So as umpire:
White is enclosed and will lose by repetition after a number of moves.

  11-20/18:09 Draganov:  @Hagbard: I would like to ask for the decision of the umpire on my game against Garun19. The position that we reached is very strange and I cannot avoid move repetition. However, if the black (Garun19) plays something to break my position I will win by an exit fort. Please, look at the position and decide if it would be a draw or I need to lose because of move repetition.

  11-20/15:18 Draganov:  @Adam: I would like to apologize to you. I was left with the wrong impression that you left the game to timeout intentionally. I really wanted to finish the game because it was an interesting battle from its beginning and I didn't want to finish it duo to timing out. Moreover, as a new player, it was an honor to play with a former wolrd champion like you, and I wanted to play the game till the end. Probably the way the game finished, frustrated me and now I want to apologize for my reaction. I agree that losing the game is enough punishment but I still think that including the amount of finished games into the additional criteria in case of tied players is not so bad idea. Probably it could be mentioned as the last criteria and we will probably never use it in a tournament.

  11-20/14:48 Adam:  @Draganov: The other answers here really say all that needs to be said. But I would like to clarify a point as an accusation has been levelled at me. You say “Instead of resigning, he just left the game to timed out, which is not good for the game and tournament” I have never intentionally ‘just left’ a game to time out. You are quite right, the position was hopeless. However, as my opponents will attest and probably lament, I tend to fight to the bitter end. Intentionally walking out of a game is anathema to me, and the timing system frustrates me. I have made particular efforts this year to stay ahead of the buffer, by playing several times a day when I can, apparently to no avail. Secondly, it does nothing bad for the game. People who find themselves unable to play, lose. It’s by all means a pain when a game times out on someone who is clearly going to win. Punishment enough as has been said. But I for one have no problem hitting the resign button. I often leave a message as I like to congratulate opponents or comment on a game’s uniqueness. If there are players who intentionally timeout when they are going to lose, I for one am not bothered. It’s a bit like getting a nice surprise in the post.

  11-16/07:17 OdinHimself:  I suggest players who timed-out to be decapitated. Honestly, I don't think anything about the time-out option needs a change. It doesn't matter how you won and we can't judge anyone for timing out. As xerxes pointed, the reasons for timing out can be various, we all have our personal issues and other things to do, so let's don't turn the tournaments in battles of life and death. Anyway, as far as we play online from our homes and not face to face on live, nothing will be as it should be. I felt the tafl spirit most highly when I played live and faster against Steiger and Ded Fomich in Russia. This is the only way to feel the game and enjoy it on maximum level.

  11-14/19:56 xerxes:  I agree that can be annoying when an opponet times-out.  However, there are lots of potential reasons for a time-out, eg illness, internet/PC problems, work issues.  In such cases the player who times-out loses the match, which seems enough of a penalty, especially if they might have won it.  The winner wins the match, which is enough of a reward, especially if they might have lost it had it continued.

  11-14/17:13 sqAree:  It's quite easy to time out in online tournaments and with such time controls. Over a real board irl, I would agree with you, but here we have to do at least one move every day which can be quite challenging. I already timed out some clearly won positions in previous World Championships or other games.

  11-14/10:53 Draganov:  I think we need a rule against players who timed-out often. In my group Luizz timed out several times. He was not sportive to the level of the second round competition. Adam also timed out a game against me in which his position was completely lost. Instead of resigning, he just left the game to timed out, which is not good for the game and tournament. It is not beautiful when half of my victories came after timing out. My suggestion is to include the amount of finished games as an additional criteria when players are tied. It could be the third criteria after direct game comparison and Sonneborn-Berger score. To be sportive and sportsmanship should be more valuable than the criteria for game length victory.

  11-14/07:30 Hagbard:  The Simple Tyr 11x11 tournament finished with #1 Ded fomich, #2 Jrton80, #3 Masterluke

  11-14/00:25 Hagbard:  First to finish all games in Round 2 (Copenhagen): Cacreal

  11-13/19:42 Hagbard:  The Sea battle tafl 15x15 tournament finished with #1 Chaolaibhne, #2 Bender

  11-13/19:17 Hagbard:  https://www.instagram.com/steigerdis/?hl=ru
http://aagenielsen.dk/taflshop_steiger.php

  11-13/19:08 Steiger:  @OdinHimself, \m/.

  11-13/18:36 Steiger:  @Abbas Agraphicus, only instagram and facebook.

  11-13/18:28 Abbas Agraphicus:  @Steiger: Do you have a personal web space or something, where you show your works? They look good.

  11-13/17:21 OdinHimself:  And again, slap on the back for Steiger, and warm greetings for the puzzle! :)

  11-13/10:21 Hagbard:  New in gallery: the Steiger tafl games of Casshern and Mmagari.

  11-12/19:42 Steiger:  I'm proud, danke! Glück auf!

  11-12/19:40 Hagbard:  New in gallery: Fomichëv sent photos of three Steiger tafl games of his.

  11-12/15:33 Hagbard:  New in gallery: jigsaw in Roskilde museumshop.

  11-10/16:22 Steiger:  @MasterLuke, thank you!

  11-10/09:46 abbas agraphicus:  @Hagbard: alright, thx!

  11-10/06:34 Hagbard:  @Abbas Agraphicus: 1500

  11-09/23:43 MasterLuke:  @Steiger: That new game in the gallery is absolutely awesome!

  11-09/22:53 Abbas Agraphicus:  Guys, a stupid question: how many elos do you start with when you sign up here?

  11-09/10:51 Steiger:  @OdinHimself, благодарю, дружище!

  11-09/10:11 OdinHimself:  @Steiger: You did it again brother! Great tafl set and description! Respect! :)

  11-08/22:49 Hagbard:  All games in Sáivu (Tablut Final) finished.

  11-08/19:33 Hagbard:  New in gallery: tafl game created by Aleksander Steiger Dis.

  11-07/10:50 Hagbard:  Lead in Jötunheimr: Draganov 3 pt.

  11-05/17:06 Adam:  @Abbas Agraphicus: I think that's a very good suggestion. The averages would certainly be meaningful given the large number of games in the archive.

  11-04/00:55 Hagbard:  The Sea battle tafl 11x11 tournament finished with #1 Casshern, #2 Masterluke, #3 Bender

  11-03/08:14 Hagbard:  Looks like Casshern won the Tablut World tournament, 10 pt. !

  11-01/18:42 Hagbard:  First to finish Round 2 (Tablut): Steiger

  10-30/15:00 Draganov:  Thanks! I sent a registration request and wait for approval.

  10-30/10:46 Hagbard:  Opened

  10-30/10:08 Draganov:  I cannot register to the site forum. Can you open the registration process in order to create my account?

  10-29/23:57 Abbas Agraphicus:  @Adam: maybe I'm taking this too far but, could the game-lenght ratio be significant to the purpose? Meaning: how much longer must be a game to let black win on average? For example in Copen. Hnefatafl it is 1.7, so maybe black could have 2x clock-time than white.
Don't know...just thinking out loud

  10-28/19:18 Adam:  @Abbas Agraphicus - i agree - i was thinking it might be able to give us a ballpark figure with the large amount of games played. But probably the information isnt there for past games in any case. I was thinking also just about the amount of time it takes from seeing the board to clicking the send button.

  10-27/16:44 Draganov:  Is there a way to implement time control for testing purposes on this site and play online in real time? Or we can play somewhere else with a time control in order to find the time control that will work well. I am ready to play as a tester of different time controls.

  10-27/16:42 Draganov:  I think that the only way to see what time control will work for Hnefatafl is by practice. We need probably a couple of hundreds games in order to see which time control will be the most balanced. In my opinion black having twice more time would be good. The statistics show that when even players played against each other, the player playing with the black pieces has an advantage. So, in my opinion the black time should not be twice bigger than the white's.

  10-27/10:28 Abbas Agraphicus:  @Draganov @Adam: this is very very interesting, but let me do the devil's advocate: don't you think that a statistic about thinking-time would be inaccurate if based on internet games? I mean, how can one know if the moves were slow cause of a tactic problem or cause the user was busy and couldn't move frequently? Or maybe a very large number of games would anyway give back a reliable data?

  10-26/21:01 Adam:  @Draganov - I wondered about an asymmetry clock too. I couldn't land on a logic for how much more time to give black though. With a gong system black could have longer to think per move. But is it four times as easy to slip up as black? Twice as easy? I wonder if a timer could measure how long players take, at least on average, to move as black and as white on this site? It would give a rough indication of any imbalance in thinking time between black and white, which could be a good starting point for testing the idea.

  10-26/15:20 Hagbard:  Lead in Fólkvangr: Cacreal 3 pt.

  10-25/06:37 Hagbard:  The Simple Tyr 13x13 tournament finished with #1 Ded fomich, #2 Masterluke, #3 Jrton80

  10-24/18:30 Draganov:  Time addition would be good too because it is not good when the game is over due to time-out. Adding 15 second per move will resolve this problem.

  10-24/18:29 Draganov:  Tafl game is asymmetry, so probably it would be a good idea to use asymmetry clock. The black could have 50% more time than the white. In case of a blitz game it would be like 15 minutes for black and 10 minutes for the white.

  10-23/15:00 Hagbard:  First Copenhagen game finished: Fastov / Cacreal

  10-22/19:28 MasterLuke:  @mihkkal: You know, I think you could be right about the order of the moves... It's worth trying. But as it is, I find it difficult to convince people to play tafl in real life, let alone three... Some genius should make it work online to try out :)

  10-22/17:42 unhandyandy:  Oops, thanks

  10-22/17:39 Hagbard:  It's on page two, More Variants. Both Brandubh 1 and 2.

  10-22/17:32 unhandyandy:  Why is Brandubh no longer available?!

  10-22/13:05 Abbas Agraphicus:  @Adam: right, I see

  10-22/12:00 mihkkal:  @MasterLuke Old topic by now but someone reminded me of 3 player Tablut and so: Yes
Attacker 1 - Attacker 2 - Defender has a certain logic to it I think but I guess it does make the game much more difficult for Defender. The Attackers have a disadvantage from being split between two players that don't communicate but still it may be too much for the Defender if two Attackers get to move between every time one Defender moves? That's the reason maybe Attacker 1 - Defender - Attacker 2 - Defender etc would work better for a balanced game... maybe. I don't know.

  10-22/11:45 Adam:  @Abbas Agraphicus: Lightning Hnefatafl is great fun, though I have a suspician that any tournament using any time limit system would end up with an aweful lot of white wins. White has four targets to attack (plus exit forts) and one to defend, while black has one target to attack and four (plus exit forts) to defend. So its a good deal easier for black to slip up catasrophically under time pressure.

  10-21/11:13 Abbas Agraphicus:  @Adam: Yes, of course a ticking clock will always be an additional pressure on black. But in a context of official live tournaments, where a time limit of some sort is unavoidable, it could be a fair compromise.
Obviously that should be somehow tested to understand what is the right average time needed to do a move.

  10-21/10:31 Adam:  @Abbas Agraphicus: That is an excellent suggestion. In fact, I beleive I am right in saying that the first ever Hnefatafl World championship, held in Fetlar, used a gong to tell everyone time was up for their move, if I remember rightly! I suspect black will still be at a disadvantage with time pressure. But it neatly solves the problem of time running out for black.

  10-21/10:25 Adam:  @Hagbard: It sounds ike a job for this community then! I suppose some digging for original sources is in order, if our experience with tafl rules is anything to go by. Damian Walker has a nice page on the two games. Its graeat as the diagram there looks like a hnefatafl rule image.

  10-21/09:52 Abbas Agraphicus:  @Adam: Looks like half an hour of time is a big limitation when it comes to matches where black is conducting and needs to adjust the formation to encircle the opponent or something like that.
What about just putting a limited amount of time for the players to do each move?

  10-21/07:23 Hagbard:  Lead in Sáivu: Casshern 3 pt.

  10-20/12:45 Hagbard:  (True, I used elements of described Ludus Latrunculorum rules for the Berserk Hnefatafl and made the game work. But Latrunculi rules used for Latrunculi, as they are described, do not look like something, which would work well.)

  10-20/12:38 Hagbard:  @Adam: I had the same thought, now that a series of games other than tafl had been implemented, Saami & Hex. It seemed natural to expand with the closely related ancestor of tafl, and I searched the web for information on Ludus Latrunculorum and found many various rules sets, all of them looking very bad in my opinion. None of the rules looked well functioning to me. Petteia I haven't looked into.

  10-20/12:19 Adam:  @Draganov: Yes, the clock really stirred things up! Years ago I toyed with the idea of making a tafl clock with two hour glasses fixed togther in a frame at 90 degrees to each other, just to prove that in theory, the vikings could have used one! But joking aside, while the chess clock was great fun, it does run into a problem with the game's asymmetry. It might work better with historical hnefatafl, but even then the difference in goals still skews the effect of time pressure. Its an interesting problem, I'd like to hear if anyone else has had a go at tafl with a chess clock.

  10-20/12:13 Adam:  @Hagbard: an interesting question came up on the WTF fb page: "Is there ludus latrunculorum, petteia championship - seems like those games are highly flawed and they always result in draw or stalemate" - Cyningstan talks about these games, and I know Beserk Hnefatafl owes a lot to Ludus. As other ancient games are now being looked at here, might it be an idea to put these ancient games through the grinder and see what comes out?

  10-19/12:01 Draganov:  Anyway, it was a great day for the Hnefatafl game.

  10-19/12:01 Draganov:  I hope that the Hnefatafl game will become more and more popular. It would be a good idea if chess clock is included but with time addition. For example adding 15 seconds after the move is done. Actually Adam had winning position in the first game with the black pieces but timed out. If there were time addition he should probably won.

  10-19/11:56 Draganov:  Here is the match between Adam and Johan-Sebastian Christiansen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xt8MBAWfBPk

  10-18/19:33 ChaolAibhne:  Thanks, @Hagbard. That seems to me to be fairest to the other contestants.

  10-18/15:54 Hagbard:  done

  10-18/14:48 ChaolAibhne:  @Hagbard. Partway through the Sea Battle tournament I found myself unavailable and a few of my games timed out. Rather than rejoin now and possibly skew the results, would it be possible just to cancel my current games and treat it as if I hadn't taken part?

  10-17/18:16 Hagbard:  First move: OdinHimself

  10-17/17:29 Hagbard:  May Thor grant you strength and courage on your way.

  10-17/11:57 Hagbard:  Round 1 finished.

  10-14/18:12 Hagbard:  Speaking as umpire:
Fastov, Luizz, Animals, Xerxes, Draganov and Steiger together with
Odinhimself, Bogd Khan, sqAree, Adam, cacreal and garun19 qualified for Copenhagen Round 2.
The Copenhagen Round 2 starts Oct. 17th at 18 o'clock Danish time.

  10-14/18:12 Hagbard:  It could take a long while, before the last group of Copenhagen Round 1, Vinland, finishes.
Any other outcome of the last two games than 1-0 in both games would immediately qualify Luizz for Round 2.

If the outcome is 1-0 for both games, then Luizz, L716 and Holidayinnes all have 6 points.
The three players' games against each other are in this case all pairwise even.
Next criterium is the Sonneborn-Berger score, which in this case would be
Luizz 26 points,
L716 18 points,
Holidayinnes 18 points,
that is, also in the case of 1-0 for both games, Luizz would qualify for Round 2.

In any case, Luizz qualified for Round 2.

  10-14/15:46 Hagbard:  The Hex 11x11 tournament finished with #1 Casshern, #2 Chaolaibhne, #3 Frenir

  10-13/08:17 Hagbard:  The Saami Daabloe 11x9 tournament finished with #1 Mihkkal, #2 Hagbard, #3 Bender

  10-12/15:09 Hagbard:  First game finished: Mihkkal / Steiger

  10-12/14:21 Hagbard:  @Adam - Fjordlandet tourist promotion, it competes for a prize

  10-12/12:31 Hagbard:  https://www.tv2lorry.dk/sondagsmagasinet/vikinger-og-verdensarv

  10-12/11:53 Adam:  @Hagbard - what a wonderful video!!

  10-12/11:47 Hagbard:  https://www.tv2lorry.dk/roskilde/gammel-video-fra-vikingeskibsmuseet-eksploderer-paa-nettet

  10-12/11:42 Hagbard:  @Adam: that is strange. 840K doesn't sound as excessively much. If it is impossible, then you could mail the file to me, and it can be added to your forum post an alternative way

  10-12/11:30 Hagbard:  https://www.cifft.com/film/fjordlandet-let-the-saga-begin/

  10-12/10:45 Adam:  @Hagbard - I'm trying to attach an image file in the chat forum, its only 840K, but its telling me the file is too large. Am I doing something wrong?

  10-11/22:42 Abbas Agraphicus:  Ok, got it, thank you very much.

  10-11/22:16 Hagbard:  On the basis of the general ratings.

  10-11/21:59 Abbas Agraphicus:  Is the "expected rating change" calculated on the basis of the general ratings or the separate ratings (of the specific verion you are playing)?
(I hope I explained myself)

  10-11/17:57 Hagbard:  Yes. By the way the forum is also opened now for new registering.

  10-11/14:56 Abbas Agraphicus:  @Hagbard, I have a question about ratings, can I ask it here? It seems I cannot login in the forum...

  10-08/17:08 Steiger:  Good luck to all!

  10-08/17:07 Hagbard:  First move: Steiger

  10-08/17:07 Hagbard:  May Thor grant you strength and courage on your way.

  10-08/08:54 Hagbard:  Steiger qualified for Round 2 (Gàrðaríki).

  10-07/11:10 Adam:  @myself, mind you, that would mean the advantage was still to white...so the repetition should be counted as a white loss. You guys are geniuses.

  10-07/11:04 Adam:  @Casshern, this is an argument that holds water, the very essence of the game. In chess the repetition rule (which incidentanly is based on position, not movement, so much for my previous comment!) results in a draw. In Tafl it is a loss, due to this essence of the game. @Jrton80, I agree, the Ytreza example was as full of holes as an old Viking's shield. But I enjoyed the idea of a longer looping sequence. I agree that noone has proved that black can force a repetition. However noone has proved that they can't either, which is rather the point of all this. I have decided to set myself the challenge of creating a board situation where black could force a draw by repetition. I doubt I can manage it. In the mean time, here is a suggestion: We could ammend the rule as has been suggested to a white loss, and ammend it further should a case of black forcing a repetition come up in game play. But wait!! That is precisely what has just happened (ChaolAibhne vs mmgaari), IF we agree that repetition is based on position as in chess, and NOT on a cycle of moves as I suggested below. IF repetition is based on position, then black CAN force a draw by repetition. Something an extremely cunning white player (mmgaari) could take advantage of if black is not paying attention. This is all very academic, but I see in Chess federation rules that the whole repetition business requires claims, checking of move history and confirmation by witnesses. Its a tricky business. It seems to me the onus in Chess is very much on the other player NOT to get themselves into a permanent checking position. But then, my eyes too are old and bent...

  10-07/10:22 Adam:  Speaking as umpire: Hnefihunter, L716, Mihkkal, Steiger, Ded fomich and Cacreal together with Casshern qualified for Saami Tablut Round 2 (the Tablut Final). The Tablut Final starts Oct. 8th at 18 o'clock Danish time. Good luck!

  10-06/22:24 Jrton80:  I too remember Ytreza's thought experiment and I never bought into it. First, there were just too many logical gaps in what I read that I could not take it seriously. Second, I still have yet to see proof it is possible. I am not playing that phone app anymore since it calls Black repetition (well, that and the screen it too small for my old eyes), and no matter how many times I go through the the game, I am still not seeing it as black doing the repetition.

In My opinion, Black forcing a repetition is not a real thing. It has been a while now and I still have seen nothing to change my mind.

  10-06/20:36 Hagbard:  First Copenhagen group to finish all games: Fornebei

  10-06/16:59 Hagbard:  The Saami Cuhkka 5x5 tournament finished with #1 Mihkkal, #2 Bender, #3 Hagbard

  10-06/16:37 Hagbard:  hex fixed

  10-05/22:59 ChaolAibhne:  Thanks, Hagbard

  10-05/22:03 Hagbard:  That sounds not good. I'll find out why tomorrow.

  10-05/21:03 ChaolAibhne:  @Hagbard, in my game of Hex as black with Jrton80 I'm unable to send my winning move - when I play my piece the system tells me that the move wins but doesn't provide a button to send it

  10-05/16:55 Hagbard:  Tablut Round 1 finished all games.

  10-05/15:40 Hagbard:  To umpire Adam:
Requested that Hnefihunter, L716, Mihkkal, Steiger, Ded fomich and Cacreal together with Casshern qualified for Saami Tablut Round 2 (the Tablut Final),
and that the Tablut Final can start Oct. 8th at 18 o'clock Danish time.

  10-05/15:22 Hagbard:  Looks like Hnefihunter and L716 qualified for Round 2, 7 pt. and 6 pt. (Rágo)

  10-05/10:51 Hagbard:  The discussed game is turned into a black win and ratings adjusted.

  10-05/09:58 mihkkal:  Thanks for the games and the congrats @ChaolAibhne!

  10-05/07:53 Steiger:  @ChaolAibhne, thanks for a great games and for congrats. Glück auf!

  10-04/22:20 ChaolAibhne:  Congratulations @Mihkkal and @Steiger. I'll need to work on my Tablut game for next time!

  10-04/22:17 ChaolAibhne:  There appears to be a consensus agreeing with my contention that it is actually white that initiates the repetition in my game with mmagari of Brandubh 2; that is, the system is not detecting repetition in the way that the rule intends. @Hagbard, is there a possibility of returning our game to the point just prior to the when the system ended it and resuming it on the understanding that white must find an alternative to the repetition? Otherwise I would be happy for the game to be treated as null and void and for our previous ratings to be restored.

  10-04/22:03 Hagbard:  Looks like Mihkkal and Steiger qualified for Round 2, both 6 pt. (Huhttán)

  10-04/21:09 casshern:  What we are talking about is the very essence of the game. The set up with black on the edge and white in the center, makes it so that white has to get past black. The point is that the king cannot do it on his own. He needs the help of his men to create and advantage to escape. Miller’s Guillotine proves that this can be done. And that is the point here. The responsibility of creating an advantage and not falling into a repetition falls on white. Be definition, black strategy is to repetitively and perpetually block white from getting past.

An issue I can see, is if black were to create an advantage for the win and either intentionally didn’t got for the win or lacked the skill to complete the win. And as the rules state, draw forts are a lose for white. So a repetition caused by a draw fort is still a lose for white. White should just resign or continue to try to create an advantage for a win than to create a repetitive position.

  10-04/14:30 Adam:  The repetition topic seems to be a bit spread around in the forum. I’ve had a read, and unless someone can prove that black can't force a repetition situation, the rule ought to apply to both. The idea that the game is already asymmetrical is not a good argument for the rule to only apply to white. On the contrary. I enjoyed the situation Ytreza proposes. Black needs to do something else when the cycle completes a second time. To clarify, I propose rule 8 read this: ’Perpetual repetitions are forbidden: the player who starts a repeating sequence of moves must find an alternative move to prevent a third cycle beginning, or else lose the game.’

It seems that the only reason this is a problem, is figuring out how to get the computer to recognise the repetition correctly. So no reason to change the rule. A human umpire can figure out cases of dispute when they crop up.

  10-04/08:34 casshern:  Please forgive my ignorance here, as I do not play Brandubh. Although move 15 is an attack on a white piece, white could move f3-g3 or king to d3. Not sure if either of these moves is strong or if white is simply in a losing position. The move repetition clearly starts on move 16 when white moves f3-f2 and black has to protect the piece while still trying blocking the corner (reacting to the aggressor).

I have gone into more details of my opinion on this matter in the large forum. If anyone would like to read and respond with their thoughts.

  10-04/07:20 Hagbard:  - The origin of the current rule phrasing is, by the way, the Foteviken Museum in Scone.

  10-04/07:18 Hagbard:  - And I believe that some of Ytreza's thought experiments last year also aimed at demonstrating, that it definitely cannot always be decided for a repetition, who is the "aggressor". This is a problem for a rule phrasing which presumes, that an aggressor is always known.

  10-03/20:57 Hagbard:  @Adam: I saw the replay again, and it is as you say. White is the first to attack with move 16, and black's move 17 would thus be an escape from the attack more than a break through attack of its own. Although in another game black could kill two birds with one stone and do an escape and attack at the same time.
The computer only looks for break through attempts and not for capture attempts, and therefore it didn't spot the white attack.
The matter of repetition and who did it has been a difficult subject always. Unhandyandy suggests in the large forum to simply let repetitions be black wins.

  10-03/18:33 Adam:  @Hagbard, sorry, i disagree. I think its pretty clear. The rule says: Perpetual repetitions are forbidden. The player who causes the repetition must find an alternative move or else he loses the game. ChaolAibhnes move 15 creates the board pattern that ends up being the repetion that the computer spots, but it's not a repetition of ChaolAibhnes previous moves, as the computer is counting move 15, which isnt part of the repeated sequence. Even if white is reacting to move 15, white is starting the cycle of repeted movement here. Now, I think the rule ought to be spelled out more clearly, a repetition of movement , not a repetition of board pattern, which just happens to be how the computer spots a repetition, and in this case eroniously. A repetiton of board pattern is clearly not what the rule means. What if a board pattern was repeated that last happend 20 moves ago after much else has happened and pieces within the pattern have been exchanged? It would be absurd.

  10-03/16:22 Hagbard:  NB. See also the large forum on this.

  10-03/15:55 Hagbard:  Is there a repetition? Yes indeed! Who causes it? That is uncertain here, both could be causing it.
Is black moving back and forth to break through or to avoid being captured? It is not obvious that it would be an advantage to break through, but who knows the player's plan? The computer does not know the player's plan and neither would an umpire.
Is white moving back and forth to block black from breaking through or to capture the black piece? Also noone knows.
I suppose that an umpire should call this situation a repetition from both sides and a draw!

  10-03/10:44 Hagbard:  @ChaolAibhne: I've had a look at the game.
The comp detects that black attempts to break through from line E to line G by consistently moving a black piece e2-e3-e2 etc. (attacking), and a white piece consistently blocks the way for this black piece by moving f2-f3-f2 etc. (defending). After a number of repetitions of this pattern, the blocking (defending) side won.
But as you write, what is going on can also be seen in a different light: the white piece consistently attacks the black piece to be captured, and the black piece consistently evades this attack.
The comp detects for the first case (side stepping for break through), but not for the second case (side stepping for avoiding capture).
Interesting example!

  10-02/20:14 durzzan:  Deregisters from the World Championship Tournament 2020.

  10-02/17:47 Hagbard:  @Adam, ChaolAibhne and Jrton80: I'll attend to these things soon. Right now I'm occupied by a number of nasty positions in the tournament -

  10-02/16:41 Adam:  @ ChaolAibhne - after looking carefully, I agree with you, the computer is seeing a reapeat of a board position that you first set up on move 15, but what is not being repeated in your final move is 'how' that position came to be. So I would argue that the computer should be overruled in this instance. @Hagbard - from a programming perspective, could the computer be told to look for a board position which has been repeated in the same 'way', not just repeated visually? as in: IF 'board position' AND 'move that led to board position' are repeated 3 times end game. (in my VERY clumsy pseudo code). Or maybe all the pieces could be given an identity, such that a repeat of a single piece shuffling could be detected? This would also deal with detection problems when white shuffles as black does lots of different moves.

  10-02/13:47 ChaolAibhne:  @Hagbard, in my game as black against mmgaari at Brandubh 2 I've just been surprised to have the system impose a loss on me on the grounds of repetition. There had warnings about repetition, but it wasn't specified who was doing so; it was only after I had lost that a message said that it was black. I assumed that it was white that was being warned. My move 15 threatened an attack on one of white's pieces and his response threatened one of mine. My move 17 had no direct threatening aspect to it. Is it not white's move 18 that should be judged as the start of the repetition?

  10-02/09:35 Hagbard:  First group to finish all games: Virihávrre

  10-01/20:14 Jrton80:  Is it just me or is the replay on the Saami Daabloe 11x9 a bit bugging?

  10-01/17:27 Steiger:  @Adam, I got it, thanks! Anyway, it was a great performance.

  10-01/13:05 Adam:  @Steiger, it was down to the wire, but it was me that timed out. It illuminated an interesting problem, which is that the asymmetry of the game means that the chess clock doesn't really work for Hnefatafl. As we know, white wins happen in far fewer moves on average than black wins. Not that I am complaining of course, he took advantage of it fair and square. It's a pity though as the clock pressure really adds something to the game.

  10-01/10:49 Hagbard:  Gàrðaríki second lead: Tomdraug 6 pt.

  09-30/08:57 Hagbard:  Qualified for Round 2: Fastov 8 pt. (Vinland)
Second lead in Vinland: L716 and Holidayinnes 5 pt.

  09-29/22:49 Hagbard:  Looks like first to qualify for Tablut Round 2 as second winner is Cacreal 4 pt. (Virihávrre)
First Tablut group to find both winners for Round 2: Virihávrre.

  09-29/17:31 Steiger:  @Adam, strange, I think you'd won first game as black to, 'cos Johan Sebastian has time out. No?

  09-29/15:38 Hagbard:  Looks like Ded Fomich is first Tablut player to qualify for Round 2, 6 pt. (Virihávrre)
Second lead in Virihávrre: Cacreal and Agmundr 3 pt.

  09-29/14:21 Hagbard:  First to qualify for Round 2 as second winner: Xerxes 9 pt. (Fornebei)
First group to find both winners for Round 2: Fornebei.

  09-29/13:18 Adam:  Thanks guys, it was a great day for Hnefatafl. My oponent Johan Sebastian was very sporting. I am hoping that some form of the live stream footage will soon become available at which time I will put out a link. It was a great way of raising awareness for the game, combining local university research, the local museum, the Norwegian chess federation and the Tafl Federation. It was all thanks to one of our newer players 'Jules' from Holmestrand in Norway who organised the event for the University. After the display match the public were invited to play Copenhagen rules in the smoky atmospheric Gildehall, so Tafl's ancient roots and bright future were woven into the same day. By the way, for those wondering, the result was 1:1 - I lost as black as JS made brilliant strategic use of his lightning chess skills (we used a chess clock to ensure the days schedule could be followed) and then I won as white, after JS tried to break my guillotine by ramming all of his men into it, which when the clock is ticking is pretty nerve wracking I can tell you!

  09-29/07:26 Hagbard:  Lead in Virihávrre: Ded fomich 4 pt.

  09-28/11:22 Hagbard:  It was live streamed. I've searched for some archive of it but in vain. Adam's opponent was 3rd strongest chess player in Norway.

  09-28/10:35 OdinHimself:  Please, add link to see the game!

  09-28/09:55 Hagbard:  The good old guillotine! Congratulations, Adam, on a fine show!

  09-27/15:08 Steiger:  The guillotine rules!!!

  09-27/15:05 Steiger:  Congrats, Adam!!!!

  09-26/16:20 OdinHimself:  We raise our swords for Adam!

  09-26/10:26 Hagbard:  Live streamed tomorrow:
https://www.usn.no/forskning/forskingsdagane/kalender/hnefatafl-hjernetrim-for-vikinger

  09-25/12:10 Hagbard:  Lead in Virihávrre: Cacreal, Ded fomich and Agmundr 3 pt.

  09-24/18:26 Hagbard:  Qualified for Round 2: Animals 11 pt. (Fornebei)
Second lead in Fornebei: Jrton80 and Agmundr 7 pt.

  09-24/18:23 Hagbard:  First to finish all games: Scuppa (Gàrðaríki and Virihávrre)

  09-24/15:08 Hagbard:  Lead in Huhttán: Mihkkal 4 pt.

  09-23/16:52 OdinHimself:  Go Bulgaria, go!!! :)

  09-22/18:17 Hagbard:  First to qualify for Round 2: Draganov 7 pt. (Gàrðaríki).
Gàrðaríki second lead: Steiger and Scuppa 4 pt.

  09-22/13:21 Hagbard:  Lead in Fornebei: Animals 6 pt.

  09-22/10:18 Hagbard:  Lead in Vinland: Fastov 6 pt.

  09-20/08:41 Hagbard:  Copenhagen tournament, speaking as umpire:
Gungnir and Arevidar never showed up for the tournament and the games have timed out.
Removed from the tournament.

  09-18/22:09 Hagbard:  Lead i Vinland: Holidayinnes 4 pt.

  09-18/19:18 Hagbard:  Lead in Vinland: L716 3 pt.
Lead in Virihávrre: Cacreal 3 pt.

  09-18/18:04 Hagbard:  ;)

  09-18/15:11 OdinHimself:  @Hagbard: I must come and see with my own eyes, touch with my own hands, feel the viking spirit, only then I will be happy :)

  09-18/11:00 Iarann:  Deregisters from the World Championship Tournament 2020.

  09-18/10:58 Hagbard:  New in gallery: A new visit to the Royal Viking Hall, Denmark, and photos of the Norden Tournament prize.

  09-17/23:47 Hagbard:  Lead in Fornebei: Jrton80 3 pt.

  09-17/22:26 Hagbard:  Lead in Rágo: L716 4 pt.

  09-17/20:09 Hagbard:  The Simple Tyr 15x15 tournament finished with #1 Chaolaibhne, #2 Jrton80, #3 Masterluke

  09-16/22:56 Hagbard:  Lead in Garthariki: Draganov 3 pt.

  09-16/21:37 mihkkal:  Congratulations!

  09-16/10:06 Hagbard:  The Sea battle T circle 11x11 tournament finished with #1 Chaolaibhne, #2 Xerxes, #3 Masterluke.
The Saami Sáhkku 3x15 tournament finished with #1 Hagbard, Hnefihunter and Mihkkal

  09-15/18:22 Hagbard:  First game finished: Scuppa / Draganov

  09-14/22:45 Hagbard:  First move: Jrton80

  09-14/22:36 Hagbard:  May Loki give you laughter as you go.

  09-14/18:42 Agmundr:  @OdinHimself: Thanks for the good words my viking brother! I would fight by your side at any time! 🍻

  09-14/18:19 OdinHimself:  @Agmundr: Skål, viking brother!!! If I have to choose with whom to fight side by side until death, it would be you, the purest and most unadulterated viking of us all! Sheilds up and march forward, face death and enter the Golden hall!

  09-14/17:43 Agmundr:  Warriors of the world! Its time to sharpen your swords and axes! Good luck to everyone, and raise your horns for a toast! Skål! 🍻

  09-13/11:15 mihkkal:  How does one solve a tie in a Sáhkku tournament? There may be a plan in place for this potential issue already, here at Aagenielsen.dk, but in case not there are two ways that have been established through modern offline cups. 1: The tied players face off in a match of Tie-Breaker Sáhkku, a special variant invented to solve ties quickly. This was invented before the first open Sáhkku Cup but has never been utilized in practice, since there has never been a need for it. Here, it would necessitate programming a new and entirely modern Sáhkku variant, so probably not an optimal choice  2: Counting surviving soldiers. When Sáhkku is used for betting, the number of surviving soldiers on the winning team has been used to calculate how large the sum won has been.  So, it pays to win by a good margin, that is with many surviving soldiers. Inspired by this, cup play has also used this principle to differ between players. Two players are ranked equally because they won against another player? The player that retained most soldiers in their match is deemed best. Two players are ranked equally because they lost against another player? The player that killed the most soldiers on the other team is deemed best. If using this principle (survivor count) as a tie breaker, I guess one way of implementing it here could be to look through all final board positions of the tied players throughout the tournament and see who, in total, had the largest number of surviving soldiers. That's a bit of work though. Another option is of course to allow the tournament to end with several winners

  09-13/10:21 ChaolAibhne:  Thanks @Hagbard. Could you undo my move as well.

  09-13/06:55 Hagbard:  It can have a Send Move button first thing.

  09-13/01:51 ChaolAibhne:  @Hagbard. In my game of Hex against you I accidentally tapped the board and my move was immediately submitted without confirmation (I was attempting to zoom the board to fit the screen of my phone). If confirmation isn't a feature for this game then I'll probably have to cancel it, as it will be too easy to accidentally make a move on my phone.

  09-11/21:03 Hagbard:  3 days till the tournament!

  09-10/23:58 Tjierrek:  Registers for the World Championship Tournament 2020. (Saami Tablut)

  09-10/21:23 mihkkal:  A running-fight game to be precise. That is, a mix between a race game and an elimination game. The two teams are in Sámi referred to as "men" vs. "women."

  09-10/20:35 Rossomaha:  Registers for the World Championship Tournament 2020. (Copenhagen)

  09-10/20:33 Rossomaha:  Registers for the World Championship Tournament 2020. (Copenhagen)

  09-10/19:24 garun19:  Registers for the World Championship Tournament 2020. (Copenhagen)

  09-10/18:08 Hagbard:  I believe that the correct term should be "race game" but I dare not say such words in these times...

  09-10/17:47 ChaolAibhne:  "Sáhkku is a racing game houndreds of years old". Dog racing? ;-)

  09-10/16:02 OdinHimself:  Registers for the World Championship Tournament 2020. (Copenhagen)

  09-08/10:25 Scuppa:  Registers for the World Championship Tournament 2020. (Copenhagen)

  09-08/10:24 Scuppa:  Deregisters from the World Championship Tournament 2020.

  09-07/18:20 Draganov:  Registers for the World Championship Tournament 2020. (Copenhagen)

  09-05/14:44 Fraech:  Registers for the World Championship Tournament 2020. (Copenhagen)

  09-03/22:48 AreVidar:  Registers for the World Championship Tournament 2020. (Copenhagen)

  09-03/20:49 MasterLuke:  Registers for the World Championship Tournament 2020. (Copenhagen)

  09-03/09:14 test1:  test

  09-02/14:12 MasterLuke:  @mihkkal: Very interesting... Now that you mention it, I didn't include a playing order in my rules, but I guess Attacker 1, Attacker 2 and then Defender would feel most natural. Like the regular 2-player game, the attackers always begin. Otherwise they wouldn't be attackers, no? And indeed, one of the special treats of this concept is the possibility to 'work together'... up to a certain point, that is. Near the end, I guess the attackers will work against each other for absolute victory. :)

  09-02/11:36 mihkkal:  @MasterLuke I remember a group once improvised 3-player Tablut at board game evening at Oslo Sámi House. But it was pretty different. As I remember the rules and setup was the same as usual but the atrackers were divided up between two players. I'm not sure if the the turns went Attacker 1 - Defender - Attacker 2 - Defender etc or Attacker 1 - Attacker 2 - Defender etc.  In any case it was interresting due to the obvious challenge to Attckers: communicating your plans to your partner without the Defender catching on.

  09-01/14:12 MasterLuke:  I keep having those ideas: maybe they work, maybe not... after 3-player Talf, Scrabble-Tafl, here is 'Throne-Tafl'. see http://aagenielsen.dk/hnefataflforum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=129&p=1482#p1482
I promise this is the last one - for now :)

  09-01/10:36 Agmundr:  Registers for the World Championship Tournament 2020. (Saami Tablut)

  09-01/10:35 Agmundr:  Registers for the World Championship Tournament 2020. (Copenhagen)

  08-31/09:50 MasterLuke:  I really love the versatility of the basic Tafl-moves and concept... so another crazy (?) idea came to my mind: check this one out! http://aagenielsen.dk/hnefataflforum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&p=1481#p1481

  08-31/08:36 mihkkal:  I see Sáhkku now has implemented the modern "begin with three pieces activated" rule. A good choice imo. Tilts the chance-skill balance more towards skill. Without it you can effectively lose a game just by not getting enough X'es in the beginning.

  08-29/00:40 Jrton80:  @ChaolAibhne I often fall asleep with visions of my next moves in my head - I don't see the problem

  08-28/21:31 Hnefihunter:  @Hagbard: Ok. Takk!

  08-28/20:54 Hagbard:  @Hnefihunter: It is when you've used your three dice.

  08-28/20:46 mihkkal:  @hagbard Thanks!

  08-28/19:47 Hnefihunter:  @Hagbard,The button Check my games is not displayed while playing Sáhkku.

  08-28/19:38 Hagbard:  thank you, fixed

  08-28/16:19 mihkkal:  There may be a bug in Saami Sáhkku. When I try to activate a soldier in a way that also pushes/recruits the king (because the king is immediately in front of the soldier to be activated) - the board doesn't load to reflect the new situation, leading to an inability to do the next move, and resultantly the turn needs to be restarted. In effect, activation+recruitment in one move becomes illegal - but it isn't.
Full contents of the small forum.
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Hnefatafl is also known by the names Nefatavl, The King's Table, The Viking Game, Viking Chess, Tablut or simply Tafl.
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Many thanks to Adam Bartley ("Adam"), Tim Millar ("crust"), Gregory Binns ("Torc"), John C. Ashton, Nicolas Cartier, Jonas Lööf ("conanlibrarian"), Olli Salmi, Damian Walker ("cyningstan"), Sten Helmfrid, Rene Gralla, Olga Mudrichenko, Gary and Christa (Germany), Ludovic Antoine, Nikolas Lloyd, Jeffrey Westcoat ("Sigurd"), Rasmus Holbroe, Thore Nissen, Lucho Panchev ("OdinHimself"), Alexander Steiger Dis ("Steiger"), Dmitry Pashkov, Delray Curtis ("jrton80"), David Zolli ("branan"), Luk Martens ("Masterluke"), Marian Luck ("themightyglider") and Mikkel Berg-Nordlie ("mihkkal"). for their contribution to this site. And not least the more than 400 players the world over who played here 28000 real tafl games humans against humans and thus created a vast, practical experience with this intriguing, historical board game.
Updated 25.11.2020