10-21/22:10 cacreal: Lets' keep the Cacreal vs Draganov games for round 3 copenhagen even with Odin added back in - I am excited for our speed matches
10-21/21:11 Draganov: I spoke with Odinhimself and he told me he is going to take part in the R3 and didn't quit.
10-21/15:11 Hagbard: No lost only 2 games and at worst 3.
The Oct. 16th looks like a resign.
If it is not, it is simple to change the setup, but preferably before 23rd 12 o'clock..
10-21/13:49 Draganov: @Hagbard, I can't see OdinHimself in the setup for R3. Was he eliminated? I think he didn't lose 5 games.
10-21/12:11 Hagbard: NB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The Copenhagen round 3 starts Oct. 23rd at about 18 o'clock Danish time.
(To give the Hist. and Sea players two days more to get their games going as discussed 11.10.)
Setup shown here:
https://aagenielsen.dk/wtfturnering2024.php
10-21/06:33 Hagbard: *** Info ***
When possible some day soon, Copenhagen round 3 will start at about 18 o'clock Danish time.
Possible setup shown here:
https://aagenielsen.dk/wtfturnering2024.php
10-18/10:24 Hagbard: A word with the new round:
Even in the sheath, the sword must be sharp.
10-18/10:13 Hagbard: The Dimetr2 has balance +1.29. But the slight positive overweight could give better games.
Generally it is more difficult to be white and have to find creative ways to escape. And generally easier to be black and destroy white's ideas.
10-18/10:03 Dimetr: Hagbard!
Thank you for setting up Dimetr2 for 3d round!
I think, it will be interesting
Now it seems? that white is stronger a little.
So, maybe we can make black first move?
(After tournament? Or, maybe right now... why not?
Now, only a few players have made a couple of moves.
But, I don`t insist).
Sorry, I not saying this earlier, I didn`t expect Dimetr2,
in the 3rd round.
I understand, that you are already tired
of us, during this tournament)))
10-18/09:17 Hagbard: As for setups, those solutions look fine, I didn't discover them.
When the number of players is less, then there's not room for a whisk setup. Only for oblique-lines.
10-18/08:38 Hagbard: Casshern, you're quite right. The night trouble of a couple of players is a very bad effect which is not intended.
Your games from previous years were as a test run through the present timing x5, and the test showed that they would have no problems.
The total time parameter has the function of limiting the overall time the tournament would last.
It takes into account the game length in number of moves, therefore several very long games are seen with no time trouble.
The 2 hours protection last year did not have the desired effect, because at midnight it was tempting for a player to stay and play on, since he'd always have 2 hours more.
A few years ago, 25 hours protection resulted in the tourn. lasting till March 19th the following year.
Until now, 93 Cop. games are completed, and only 5 games timed out.
10-18/07:58 casshern: Secondly, I am confused about the third round match ups. Particularly Sea Battle where 3 of the 5 matches are rematches from a previous round. In years past I thought rematches were avoided so that players could have new opponents each round until inevitably rematches could not be avoided anymore. Everyone has a rematch this round and Alex has 2 rematches. It just does not make sense to me when we could have third round with no rematches. The 5 matches should be:
Potapych/Casshern
Casshern/Chaolaibhne
Chaolaibhne/Alex Hnefatafl
Alex Hnefatafl/Draganov
Draganov/Potapych
With these matches for round 3 each player will have played every other play once. This seems the more balanced approach.
Furthermore, I am matched up against Alex Hnefatafl again in Sea Battle. I noticed Alex has not played Draganov in Sea battle or Historical Hnefatafl, why is that? I thought HH and SB would follow the same set up for the third round as Copenhagen. Where player 00 plays 03 and 04 and player 01 plays 02 and 05. This seemed the most logical next set up, just wondering why you deviated from this? These matches would make more sense to me for HH round 3:
Dimetr/Casshern
Casshern/Chaolaibhne
Chaolaibhne/Paul7
Paul7/Alex Hnefatafl
Alex Hnefatafl/Draganov
Draganov/Silent Bob
Silent Bob/Dimetr
10-18/07:30 casshern: @Hagbard: I am very confused. The tournament seems very different from years past. Firstly, I want to touch on the timing issue 1 more time. Regardless of how much total time we use up each game, 2 hours per move is just not feasible. We should not be obligated to stay up around the clock in order to not time out. If I remember correctly, in years past we always had 12 hours per move even if our buffer was depleted. Personally, my schedule is much busier now than in years past. I find it difficult to make moves even twice a day. Most days I can only make moves in the even (around this time) and my opponents usually are not up. When I sleep they make a move and I am not able to make another move until they are sleeping again. I wish I could play more moves during the day, but my schedule is just too demanding. Perhaps this was the case between Odinhimself and Garun10. I do not know, but it is clear to me that Odinhimself was in a winning position and should not have lost on a time out. This outcome is very disappointing. I thought this tournament was designed to find the best player not the fastest player. Or the player who can stay up the longest.
10-17/15:41 Hagbard: NB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The Sea Battle round 3 also ready tonight Oct. 17th at about 18 o'clock Danish time.
10-17/13:12 Hagbard: NB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The Hist. Hnef. round 3 starts tonight Oct. 17th at about 18 o'clock Danish time.
10-17/10:05 Hagbard: *** Info ***
Copenhagen and Sea next round can probably not be started for a long time more than a week.
But Hist. next round could be ready any moment, and will then start at about 18 o'clock Danish time.
Possible setup shown here:
https://aagenielsen.dk/wtfturnering2024.php
10-16/17:09 Draganov: Yes, but total time is generated mostly during sleeping hours.
10-16/16:45 Hagbard: I have an idea for reducing the night timing problem. But it can be implemented only after the tournament.
Below is listed a full profile which shows how the timing works.
As is seen, it's very important not to use too much total time.
10-16/16:31 Draganov: @Hagbard, I think the suggested by Casshern 12 hours protected minimum is much needed. I and Sqaree and seems OdinHimself also want protected minimum time. The protected time could be applied after the time buffer is used up. So, after using the 6 days of the time buffer, the player will have 12 hours for each of his next moves. No additional time added, just 12 hours to make a move and if succesfully made a move within 12 hours, another 12 hours will be given for the next move and so on until the end of the game.
10-16/15:49 OdinHimself: So, all we need to win a lost game is not to play fast untill the time buffer of the other player decreases along ours and then just lurking in the night when he's not active and strike the deadly final move? Great strategy! I think I'm done with the tournaments here. Despite my willingness to take part in the world tournament year after year. My final words.
10-16/14:32 Hagbard: 42 0 hours 0.3 hours 0.2 days 15.4 days
43 0 hours 0.3 hours 0.2 days 15.4 days
44 4.6 hours 0.3 hours 0 days 15.6 days
10-16/14:32 Hagbard: The profile of OdinHimself's 44 moves:
move number draw time added time time buffer total time
1 1.7 hours 10 hours 6.5 days 0 days
2 3.5 hours 10 hours 6.5 days 0.2 days
3 0.1 hours 10 hours 6.5 days 0.2 days
4 3.9 hours 10 hours 6.5 days 0.3 days
5 8.9 hours 10 hours 6.5 days 0.7 days
6 3.7 hours 10 hours 6.5 days 0.8 days
7 4.4 hours 10 hours 6.5 days 0.9 days
8 10.7 hours 10 hours 6.5 days 1.4 days
9 0.4 hours 10 hours 6.5 days 1.4 days
10 13.9 hours 10 hours 6.3 days 1.9 days
11 6.9 hours 10 hours 6.5 days 2.2 days
12 19 hours 10 hours 6.1 days 3 days
13 4.7 hours 10 hours 6.3 days 3.1 days
14 15.6 hours 10 hours 6.1 days 3.8 days
15 15.2 hours 10 hours 5.9 days 4.4 days
16 8.4 hours 10 hours 5.9 days 4.7 days
17 11.6 hours 10 hours 5.9 days 5.2 days
18 40.7 hours 10 hours 4.6 days 6.8 days
19 5.2 hours 9.5 hours 4.8 days 7 days
20 1.9 hours 9.2 hours 5.1 days 7.1 days
21 4.5 hours 9.1 hours 5.3 days 7.3 days
22 6 hours 8.8 hours 5.4 days 7.5 days
23 6.3 hours 8.5 hours 5.5 days 7.7 days
24 4 hours 8.1 hours 5.6 days 7.9 days
25 3.4 hours 7.9 hours 5.8 days 8 days
26 5.5 hours 7.7 hours 5.9 days 8.2 days
27 7.1 hours 7.4 hours 5.9 days 8.5 days
28 7.8 hours 6.9 hours 5.9 days 8.8 days
29 8.3 hours 6.5 hours 5.8 days 9.1 days
30 19 hours 6 hours 5.3 days 9.9 days
31 18.8 hours 4.8 hours 4.7 days 10.7 days
32 8 hours 3.6 hours 4.5 days 11 days
33 10.9 hours 3.1 hours 4.2 days 11.4 days
34 24.5 hours 2.5 hours 3.3 days 12.4 days
35 8.5 hours 0.9 hours 2.9 days 12.7 days
36 12.6 hours 0.4 hours 2.4 days 13.2 days
37 10.1 hours 0.3 hours 2 days 13.6 days
38 19.3 hours 0.3 hours 1.2 days 14.4 days
39 15.2 hours 0.3 hours 0.6 days 15 days
40 10.6 hours 0.3 hours 0.2 days 15.4 days
41 0.5 hours 0.3 hours 0.2 days 15.4 days
42 0 hours 0.3 hours 0.2 days 1
10-16/12:47 OdinHimself: @Hagbard: How can I lose by time out if I was the more active player? Garun19 had moments of not making any moves for more than 36 hours. Last time I checked I had several days in my time buffer. And most important thing - I never received the red message about how much hours I have to make a move. I think you should check the game status again. Otherwise I will concider this loss as unfair. I am far away of complaining and you and all members here know this is true, I haven't posted anything in the forum in many months, but this timing out is unfair and I will not tolerate it without any Solid reason.
10-16/08:24 Hagbard: The Garun19/OdinHimself Copenhagen game checked:
Black's last move was Oct. 15th 18:41
White's last move was Oct. 15th 18:47
After this, black's time buffer is 4.6 hours; black has used in all 15.4 days. Time added per move 15 minutes.
4.6 hours later, Oct. 15th 23:24, black timed out.
After white's last move, white's time buffer is 5.5 hours; white has used in all 13.8 days. Time added per move 15 minutes.
10-16/07:11 OdinHimself: @Hagbard: Please, check my game against Garun19. I had plenty of time buffer, he didn't. After my move last evening he had about 5 hours to move and my time buffer was days. But I lost the game by timing out.
10-15/16:30 Draganov: @Cacreal, I am open to take up your challenge. If we play in R3 against each other, then we can arrange an hour and play the games in blitz.
10-15/15:43 cacreal: I am happy to play my Copenhagen games against Draganov in white and black with a 1 hour total time period per player for each game at the time of his choosing.
Live games last only 10 to 30 minutes so 2 hours a game would be generous. This would expedite what would otherwise turn into a month long + game.
10-15/10:17 Hagbard: Understandable. But the game is on the umpire's desk.
Please do your best to finish it anyway.
10-15/10:16 Draganov: Then, the game will be over by tomorrow morning.
10-15/10:15 Draganov: Another solution for quickly finishing the game would be to give us both 12 hours without added time just to finish the game.
10-15/10:12 Draganov: I am ready to play fast during the day but Alex insist on playing only during the night hours. He tried to time me out 2 times last night (playing at 2 and 4 AM) and tried to time me out three times 2 nights ago playing at (2, 4 and 6 AM). However, he is not playing Copenhagen against me during the daytime. I have 2 hours left on my time buffer and playing with this time buffer only during sleep hours is impossible or at least inconviniant for me and my family. Practically this game is not a tafl game anymore (which from playing point of view is decided on the board since I am winning) but a contest of endurance and ability to play during night time.
10-15/10:06 Hagbard: I've involved the umpire concerning this game.
Please do your best to finish the game.
10-15/09:41 Draganov: @Hagbard, could you make the protected minimum of time 8 hours and we can test it how it works? We can make adjustements in it in case the games are prolonging too much.
10-14/23:34 sqAree: Yes I wanted a protected minimum of time for years. It's not possible to go to sleep anymore otherwise. I timed out a few games in the WC also because I only had minutes of time after my opponent made their move.
That's not even related to me being a notoriously slow player. I played a lot faster than usually in this tournament, my time buffers were often higher than those of my opponents.
Sometimes I stay awake longer than usually just to play the last move of the night. And then my opponent is randomly awake at 4am and plays lol.
10-14/11:11 Draganov: @All, let's discuss the issue with the timing. I think with protected minimum of time that is enough to play (but not to prolong the game) like 8 hours the games will even be shorter because players in losing positions will not try to prolong the game by making moves only during the nights in order to time out their opponents. The games will be decided on the board and not on the clock. I suggest giving players protected amount of time which is 8 hours or another solution would be to make a possibility for a player to ask the umpire for additional time of 24 hours time for his buffer in order to complete the game which is about to time out. This asking must be reasonable and only in case the player asking is in a winning position. If the position is too complicated and unclear, then such asksing should be refused. In this way we are going to prevent situations in which Player A is winning in a forced way but lost the game on time. I think we are still in the process of experimenting with the time buffer and such changes like adding protected minimum of time could be implemented even now during the championship. The point of the championship is to find the champion who played the best tafl and not the champion who played dirty tricks with the time (playing only during night hours) and won the title on time. Let me know what do you think of protected minimum of time or adding additional time when needed and approved by the umpire?
10-12/14:40 Hagbard: When men meet foes in fight, better is stout heart than sharp sword.
10-11/10:03 Hagbard: - If we wait for the next tafl rounds like discussed, then we can as well use the time for the race games round 2 ?!
So:
NB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The Race Games round 2 starts tomorrow Oct. 12th at about 18 o'clock Danish time.
10-11/09:42 Hagbard: There is a challenge to unite some contradictory factors such as:
- the player should not have overwhelmingly many simultaneous games.
- it is normal and good that a player joins more lines and often all.
- the whole tournament should be finished within limited time.
- it is an advantage to start a new round while the players are already present and quickly discover it, because they still play some earlier game.
The game which determines the length of the whole tournament, use to be Copenhagen. So to limit this, it's important to start the next Copenhagen round immediately when possible.
The race games are many but easy ( - or perhaps not so easy as I believe since I ended no. 8 ... ), so they can be started anytime.
This year has shown that it might be possible to start a Copenhagen round every 14 days.
Ideally one could imagine a rhythm of Copenhagen - 7 days - Hist. & Sea - 7 days - Copenhagen and so on.
If it's done like this from the very start, so that the Hist. & Sea lines start with 7 days delay, it might work naturally.
As of now, it's hard to say when each of the three lines will be ready for next round; there might be some waiting time before Copenhagen is ready.
-----------------
Perhaps next step could be:
Wait for next Copenhagen round.
7 days later, next Hist. & Sea round.
The price would be, that some players are idle and must wait for some unknown time for the next games.
-----------------
By the way, I use to halve the amount of work with the games this way:
I move first against higher rated players, and second against lower rated players. That is half of the games.
Rest of the games are just kept alive with an occasional move when required by the clock; of course being aware not to end in time troubles.
10-11/08:12 Draganov: @Hagbard, why I am receiving only 0.2 additional time in the buffer after each move. Some days ago, I made several moves and received too little time addition. There is practically no way to revive the time buffer after it is used up and the game will be over on time and not because of the play. I think the most important thing is to have protected minimum of 8 hours. Otherwise, there is no point of playing like this. Deciding the game results on time is worse outcome than prolonging the games.
10-11/03:03 casshern: I would suggest to stagger the tournaments a week apart continuously. ie, cop, hh, sb, cop, hh, sb, etc. This would mean that each round would take 3 weeks as opposed to every 2 weeks. The race games can either start between hh and sb or they can just start with sb since it has the least amount of players each year.
10-11/03:02 casshern: I have to say that I was very critical of this format the first couple years. However, I think we worked out most of the issues. I very much enjoy it now. I feel every round and match is challenging for me personally. I think it is that way for most players. And last year, we had fantastic finals in each tournament. We ended up with the best players in each tournament meeting in the finals.
Besides the timing issue, I have one more thing I would like to bring up. Personally, I find it difficult to play in 3 tournaments when they all start at the same time with the next round starting 2 weeks later. Its hard enough for me to focus on the 12 games at a time, then I get another 12 games when I still have many games in crucial positions.
10-10/16:13 Hagbard: As for memorable tournament games, actually I enjoyed very much to see the round 1 which we've just had.
It was so natural that the players played against the players which they did. It was a Battle of Brothers, all equal games.
10-10/15:51 Draganov: And if there are more than 20 players we can separate them into 4 groups and only the winners of the groups will advance to the semi-finals.
10-10/15:49 Draganov: I also would like to raise the question of the format again. In my opinion, the best format will be the one which gives us a memorable final battle (match). For example in Tennis tournaments, we have the two leading players separated from each other in two streams. Then, if they managed to defeat the other players from their streams, they will face each other in an epic final battle. I think a final match of 6 to 10 games between the two best players (not necessary the two with the highest rating but the two with the best performance during the championship) will be the best outcome of the WTF. If we have for example 20 players we can separate them into two groups and play against each other in round-robin format just like an ordinary tournament. Then the first two winners from each group advancing to the semi-finals (winner group A vs second from group B and winner from group B vs second of group A). And then a final match. Then the tournament will have only 3 rounds and will not last forever. Moreover, the majority of the players will be free to play outside of the championship after R1 and only 4 players will need to be involved in the championship for longer period of time (possibly till the end of the year).
10-10/14:54 Hagbard: Plan, if possible:
Starting Oct. 14th at about 18 o'clock Danish time
Race games round 2,
Copenhagen, Hist. and Sea round 3.
Possible setups shown:
https://aagenielsen.dk/wtfturnering2024.php
10-10/13:44 Hagbard: Thanks for bringing it up. There are remarkably many long games this year.
In those end games, the normal timer also intervenes, so the extra mechanic is redundant.
It is changed to 1.5 days, and it is checked that no game was hit by the other value.
10-10/13:31 Draganov: There are many games with more than 100 moves in which the board is full of pieces. Look for example my win with the whites against Casshern from WTF 2021. After move 100 the position was very complicated. I think the only thing which we need to prevent with the time buffer is players who played only 1 move per day even if the position is simple (btw, such players play faster when they are winning). So, players who in losing position are starting playing slowly (1 move per day, refusing to resign the game and just prolonging the game as much as they can) need to be restricted. With the protected minimum of 8 hours per move if the time buffer is used up, the games will not last forever.
10-10/12:24 Hagbard: A game of 100 moves and more, has typically only few pieces left and relatively simple structure. But the normal timing will probably take care of it as well -
10-10/12:07 Draganov: @Hagbard, I also have some complaints regarding the timing. I think the protected minimum shlould be at least 8 hours. I timed out against Casshern in one of the Sea Battles in a complicated position. I was on a vacation abroad, woke up in the morning, saw that I have time on my time buffer (or I thought I had time), then went to the beach, had fun, went back at the hotel and in the evening saw the game was timed out. I was sure, I had at least half a day in my time buffer before timing out but I might have been wrong. I also don't like the idea of reducing the time of both players to 24 hours per move (which is going less over the time) if the game is longer than 100 moves. It means that Player A can be in a winning position, playing fast, beating his opponent during the whole game and Player B almost running out of time, managing to survive to move 100 and then winning the game on time just because Player A had personal problems at the moment and didn't manage to make a move in 24 hours (or less).
I think it is a must to have minimum protected time of 8 hours and remove the rule for the timing reduced after move 100.
10-10/09:16 Hagbard: Thank you.
The whisk pattern level one was used last year also for round 1.
Whisk pattern level two for round two is a first.
Players in the whisk having 2, 3 and 4 opponents is to level the resistance. "Bottom" end plays against opponents about half as strong, and therefore the opponents are double in number.
On the timing:
The protection is 0.
When a game lasted a long time (approaching a month), then not much is added to the time buffer at a move.
The way to avoid that, is to try to not add up too much total time.
And to help your fellow players, it's a good idea when the night comes at your opponent's location, to let your own clock run and wait to move until morning at his location.
On your "My current games" page:
at the bottom of the page, click "Enter" to "Show my games and time buffers".
Here the time buffer left is shown, and in parentheses the current status of three additional parameters:
- the time added to the time buffer at a move, in hours (depends on the total time used by the player).
- the total time used by the player, in days.
- time limit to do a move, in days (depends on the game length in number of moves).
Fx.
"Player: 6.5 days left of time buffer.
(10h, 2.1d, 2.7d)"
- means that 10 hours are added to the time buffer when you move; you have used in total 2.1 days for this game; you must move before 2.7 days.
10-10/08:10 casshern: The whisk pattern seems logical to me. Is that what we used last year or the year before? The only issue I see, in my opinion, is that the players on the low end should only have 2 matches. I can understand them having 3 or 4 matches in round 1, but after advancing past rounds 1 and 2 I think all players should have an equal amount of games.
Also, I think there is still an issue with the timing. I timed out 2 games in round 1, where I had less than 2 hours to make a move/finish the game. Dont get me wrong, I was in a losing position in each game. So the outcome would not have changed had play continued. But I thought that we had a minimum of 8 hours to make a move during the tournament. Personally, I would prefer 12 hours. Is that not the case?
10-08/13:13 Hagbard: A comment on the next round of Copenhagen.
Round 1 followed the whisk pattern.
The current round 2 follows the oblique-lines pattern.
The oblique-lines pattern in the current round matches players of distance 10, fx. 04-14.
Which is a difficult challenge to player 14.
There exists a whisk pattern, which is a logical next step from the one in round 1.
It matches players a bit farther than round 1 but still more equal.
If you are game for a try, this could be used for Copenhagen round 3?
In the tournament page a possible setup for round 3 is shown for both patterns:
https://aagenielsen.dk/wtfturnering2024.php
10-05/21:31 Draganov: @Hagbard, is it possible to make a table with the results from the WTF championship like in the previous years? I think it is nice to have a visibility on what is going on and how the other players are doing, especially in the Race tournament.
10-02/14:15 Hagbard: Most active Hnefatafl countries on this site Sep. 2024:
1. UK
2. USA
3. Bulgaria
4. Canada
5. Russia
6. Germany
7. Moldavia
8. France
9. Belgium
10-01/08:52 Hagbard: Info: Copenhagen round 2 could start any day soon at about 18 o'clock Danish time.
09-30/18:24 Hagbard: May Thor grant you strength and courage on your way!!
09-29/07:50 Hagbard: NB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The Race Games start tomorrow Sep. 30th at about 18 o'clock Danish time.
Deadline for registering is tomorrow Sep. 30th 12 o'clock Danish time.
Also start round 2 for Hist. Hnef. and Sea Tafl, and if possible Copenhagen.
09-28/13:31 Colophonius: Registers for the WTF Race Games tournament.
09-28/13:31 Colophonius: Registers for the WTF Race Games tournament.
09-26/12:41 Hagbard: It was an error, thank you for noticing. Corrected.
09-26/11:06 floki: @Hagbard, could you tell me why my name is not on the Copenhagen 2nd round list please ?
09-25/15:39 Hagbard: *** INFO ***
Results for all players are not known yet for Round 1.
But here is shown how the setups for Round 2 could be:
https://aagenielsen.dk/wtfturnering2024.php
It is the plan to start the Race Games Sep. 30th at about 18 o'clock Danish time.
And if possible, all the Round 2's also.
09-24/21:09 Luizz: Okay, thanks! The game can definitely still be finished, just wanted to make sure I'm not hit by a draw unexpectedly
09-24/20:48 Hagbard: With this long game you could perhaps end up with some questions for the umpire.
A quick answer from the programmer is that it is not implemented. Instead there's the rule 10:
10. If it is not possible to end the game, fx. because both sides have too few pieces left, it is a draw.
09-24/20:31 Luizz: Quick question, as I cannot find it and it may be relevant:
Is there a rule that after x moves without capture the game ends in a draw in Copenhagen?
09-23/13:10 ChaolAibhne: Registers for the WTF Race Games tournament.
09-19/23:09 Jrton80: Registers for the WTF Race Games tournament.
09-19/21:12 Hagbard: corrected
09-19/12:34 Luizz: In my last game against brave-frog in the historical world-tournament, he timed out and thus I won. However, I lost 6 rating points.
@Hagbard, could you look into this and check why this happened?
09-14/19:38 Hagbard: May Loki give you laughter as you go!!
09-14/11:10 Antonius: Registers for the WTF Copenhagen tournament.
09-14/11:09 Antonius: Registers for the WTF Copenhagen tournament.
09-13/23:36 casshern: Registers for the WTF Copenhagen tournament.
09-13/23:36 casshern: Registers for the WTF Hist.Hnef. tournament.
09-13/23:35 casshern: Registers for the WTF Sea Battle tournament.
09-13/22:11 Красное Солнышко: Registers for the WTF Copenhagen tournament.
09-13/21:32 jilles: Registers for the WTF Race Games tournament.
09-13/13:35 Silent Bob: Registers for the WTF Sea Battle tournament.
09-13/13:35 Silent Bob: Registers for the WTF Hist.Hnef. tournament.
09-13/12:03 Dimetr: I wonder where is Casshern? Won't he come to battle this year?
09-13/08:51 Hagbard: NB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The games start tomorrow Sep. 14th at about 18 o'clock Danish time.
Deadline for registering is tomorrow Sep. 14th 12 o'clock Danish time.
When the games start, please move before 3 days or else the games time out.
09-12/23:24 floki: Registers for the WTF Copenhagen tournament.
09-12/10:19 Hagbard: 3 days till start of WTF tournament.
NB! the tournament will actually start around Sep. 14th 18 o'clock Danish time! (and is thus ready also at Sep. 15th 0 o'clock.)
The setup is updated:
http://aagenielsen.dk/wtfturnering2024.php
About new variants, it is better to wait until the tournament is well ahead.
09-12/06:09 MasterLuke: @Dragonov: In that case, we're talking about a new variant. I suggest we call it 'Dragonov-Tafl' and the old 'Alea Berserk 17x17 (Martens)' should lay burried in the archives. Or better yet we call it 'Dragon-Tafl'... Let's add a bit of fantasy or mythology here and consider the immortal piece a dragon (who's on whites side) instead of a knight :D Anyway, it's up to Hagbard to decide whether he opens this variant or not.
09-12/00:15 Draganov: The problem with the old variant was that in the beginning it was played with immortal knights that are unarmed and cannot capture. However, after that a bug occured that made the immortal knights able to capture. This made the knights so powerful that they were removed because they seemed unstoppable. However, I proved in some of my games that there is a way to neutralize them.
09-11/23:23 MasterLuke: @Dragonov: let's "agree to disagree" about your opinion regarding Odin 17x17. In the past we tried the original game (indeed known as 'Alea Berserk 17x17') with the immortal knight and he proved to be a hindrance rather than a helping piece. Yes, It's true you and I played it again a few times recently and it proved to be fun indeed. It depends on the type of players and it takes a special kind of strategy, I guess. Now, to say the current 'Odin 17x17' (which is 'Alea Berserk 17x17 without the immortal knights) is unplayable or slow-paced, is a bit of a stretch, really. It had a fine balance, as I remember.
That being said, I'll gladly accept your invitation to play the unrated games.
09-11/22:53 Draganov: Actually I saw that the right variant is still available in the archive. However, it is not active. It is called now Alea Berserk 17x17 (Martens 0).
@Hagbard, could you please open this variant to be played. I really like it.
09-11/22:48 Draganov: @MasterLuke, I invited you to some unrated games in Odin variant but to be honest I think these Odin variants are bad, slow-paced and dull. The commanders are practically useless since the king is captured from 2 sides. After removing of the immortal knights the game is unplayable. The only playable variant on big boards would be if we bring back the IMMORTAL Knights (they cannot be killed and can capture opponent's pieces by jumping over). The Martens variant on 17x17 worked well but the change with the removing the immortal knights killed this variant on 17x17 board.
@Hagbard, please bring the old variant back with a different name.
09-11/12:40 MasterLuke: Just wondering, would it be interesting to try out some 'w-versions' (ie 'white begins') of the Tyr and Odin games? These games are pretty well balanced as they are, but I'm curious to know if in case white begins: would it make a difference?
09-11/07:18 Раса: Registers for the WTF Race Games tournament.
09-11/07:18 Раса: Registers for the WTF Sea Battle tournament.
09-10/14:22 OdinHimself: Registers for the WTF Copenhagen tournament.
09-09/20:09 brave-frog: Registers for the WTF Race Games tournament.
09-09/20:08 brave-frog: Registers for the WTF Sea Battle tournament.
09-09/20:08 brave-frog: Registers for the WTF Hist.Hnef. tournament.
09-09/20:08 brave-frog: Registers for the WTF Copenhagen tournament.
09-08/06:16 Hagbard: One week till start of tourn.; these players from last year have not registered:
Platypus, Ramzi, Lalli The Hunter, Sybil, casshern, floki, arcrue, mrcrow, Gingie339, jilles, OdinHimself, ekve2, fiji270, konrad7890
09-07/17:07 xerxes: Thanks Aage
09-07/10:31 Hagbard: fixed
09-06/20:58 Hagbard: thank you, that sounds very unfortunate. I'll try to fix it tomorrow
09-06/19:18 xerxes: Aage - I think I've discovered a bug in Sahkku (unless it is a feature I did not know about which might contribute to me losing all the time !). In my game as White against Chaolaibhne in T832 I have thrown X, 2, and 4. Some of my men have yet not started and the next to start abuts the King, which is currently Black. I have discovered that if I use the X on the unstarted man beside the King he starts, but the X remains an option, and I can therefore start all of my remaining unstarted men before continuing with the three moves of X, 2, and 4. I have cancelled the move in case you want to have a look at it.
09-06/18:17 Hitchcock: Registers for the WTF Copenhagen tournament.
09-05/19:40 Hagbard: ok
09-05/19:31 Colophonius: @Hagbard Could you please remove me again from the race game championship tournament? At the moment I simply don't have the time to participate, although I would like to. I'm sorry
09-05/19:09 Hagbard: Most active Hnefatafl countries on this site Aug. 2024:
1. UK
2. Bulgaria
3. USA
4. Moldavia
5. Russia
6. Belgium
7. France
8. Canada
9. Germany
09-05/13:15 Hagbard: sorry, it was a typo error; corrected.
09-05/12:45 Luizz: I registered for the Historical Tournament, however, the Tournament Page only shows a (C) behind my name. Why is that?
09-04/19:18 Luizz: Registers for the WTF Hist.Hnef. tournament.
09-04/09:17 Hagbard: More setups shown:
http://aagenielsen.dk/wtfturnering2024.php
09-03/20:56 Draganov: Well, sounds like a good and intresting idea. I think it is good to face players outside of your family in the first round (Cacreal and Holidayinnes are brothers and Garun19 is their father plus Bingoboy who is Cacreal's son, a real tafl family). Moreover, Cacreal is worth to lead the group this year since he is one of the leading players here.
09-03/18:56 Hagbard: It is a small change, so that family is not forced to knock each other out to get a point. Perhaps in a later round but not in round 1.
09-03/14:07 Draganov: @Hagbard, what is the reason Cacreal to be placed as the number 1 in the list. I don't mind it but I am just curious.
09-03/10:55 Hagbard: How the Cop. tourn. would be set up with the players registered so far:
http://aagenielsen.dk/wtfturnering2024.php
09-02/19:49 Pirat: Registers for the WTF Hist.Hnef. tournament.
09-02/09:58 Draganov: Registers for the WTF Copenhagen tournament.
09-02/09:58 Draganov: Registers for the WTF Hist.Hnef. tournament.
09-02/09:58 Draganov: Registers for the WTF Sea Battle tournament.
09-02/09:57 Draganov: Registers for the WTF Race Games tournament.
09-02/03:04 cacreal: Registers for the WTF Race Games tournament.
09-01/18:40 Hagbard: About Sea battle 13x13 games. At the moment we have
Sea battle tafl 13x13 (modif. Parlett), balance -1.09 from 338 games.
Sea battle tafl 13x13 (Nielsen), balance +1.31 from 116 games.
Sea battle tafl-w 13x13 (Parlett), balance +1.62 from 22 games.
There's not time to test the new "Sea battle tafl-w 13x13 (Parlett)" much.
If we want 13x13 for the second round, "Sea battle tafl 13x13 (Nielsen)" is a safer choice.
09-01/07:50 Hagbard: Nu falmer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuZhwLLJ-28
Vi pløjed
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KynmacpbB74
sommersalme
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z45RruFz8SM
08-30/22:10 Hagbard: It's already all in the timing.
If it functions for all games now, it'll also work for the tournament.
08-30/21:02 Draganov: We could have time buffer functioning like before but when the time buffer is used up, then 8 hours are added after each move. So, a player will never time-out during the night.
08-30/21:00 Draganov: @Hagbard, it seems that my proposal of the timing is not implemented. I proposed to have 8 or 10 hours minimum protected time.
08-30/16:55 Hagbard: 10 hours is a ceiling.
The protection is 0 and the flag will fall.
08-30/16:21 Draganov: @Hagbard, what about the protected minimum time before timing out? Is the protected minimum 10 hours as well?
08-30/15:55 Hagbard: Info: Draganov's idea of long game criteria 2 going down to 10 hours is added (for new games). When a game reached about 130 moves, time per move is limited to 10 hours.
08-30/15:03 Draganov: Yes, maybe we need to ignore games that timed-out and not allowed players with only timed-out games to participate. So, TheMatrix must have to complete at least one full game.
08-30/13:38 Hagbard: Historical Hnefatafl-w 13x13 (Dimetr 2)
Balance measured to +1.29, which is ok.
Sea battle tafl-w 13x13 (Parlett)
Balance measured to +1.62 but still rather uncertain.
08-30/13:37 Hagbard: yes 5 and 6 moves and then timed out
08-30/13:17 Draganov: @Hagbard, it seems that TheMatrix played two games in Historical Hnefatafl-w 13x13 (Dimetr 2)
08-30/12:48 Hagbard: Info. Two weeks till start of tourn.; these players from last year have not registered:
Platypus, Ramzi, Draganov, Lalli The Hunter, Sybil, casshern, floki, arcrue, mrcrow, Gingie339, jilles, OdinHimself, ekve2, fiji270, konrad7890
08-30/12:11 Hagbard: TheMatrix registered for Hist. Hnef. but played 0 games.
08-30/11:39 garun19: Registers for the WTF Copenhagen tournament.
08-30/10:16 Hagbard: Speaking of Paca/Alex -
I would very much prefer to use the name "Alex Hnefatafl", because adm. is more difficult with the cyrillic letters. Since there are two names.
08-29/12:25 Draganov: Yes, but it will be good to know exactly to whom these aliases belong.
08-29/12:19 garun19: Registers for the WTF Copenhagen tournament.
08-29/11:34 Hagbard: Those aliases are duplicates, and so the max ratings are integrated with other aliases.
08-29/10:49 Draganov: @Hagbard, why I can't see the max rating for Frenir and Cdafo. They both are wonderful players (very strong and with interesting playing styles) and I want to know more about them. Are they just different nicknames of well-known players? I think it will be better if we have as much visibility as possible and if a player has more than one account, all of his accounts to be placed together in the rating list like Herjan, Fjorlag and Siegfried are all placed with the same rating of 1800.
08-29/10:21 Hagbard: Paca/Alex is the highest ranking player registered for the tourn. at the moment and would be in top of the setup.
It was positive last year to show the setup of game matching beforehand.
Some days before Sep. 15th I'll show the setup.
08-29/03:25 ChaolAibhne: Registers for the WTF Race Games tournament.
08-29/03:25 ChaolAibhne: Registers for the WTF Sea Battle tournament.
08-29/03:25 ChaolAibhne: Registers for the WTF Hist.Hnef. tournament.
08-28/22:07 Dimetr: Time x5 is more than enough.
Even x2 was enough.
No matter how busy we are, we can always make two moves a day
08-28/18:49 sqaree: Yes doing a move two times a day is reasonable, it's just that some people like me sleep 8 hours at night and work 8 hours during the day so it was just impossible
08-28/17:21 Draganov: @Hagbard, I want to mention the situation with well-known players with new accounts or players who lower their rating on purpose. In the upcoming world championship a player called Раса is going to participate. We all know that Раса is Alex Hnefatafl under a new nickname. However, the rating of Alex Hnefatafl is 2020 while the rating of Раса is 1660. I think it will be better if a player is initially placed according his highest ever achieved rating with all of his accounts. So, Раса should be considered as Alex Hnefatafl and his high rating should be taken into consideration while making the pairs in the first round. Otherwise, he will start against weaker opponents and will face the top players in R3 with clean sheets.
08-28/13:48 Hagbard: ( - 10 hours not to be inhuman: 8 hours sleep plus 2 hours)
08-28/13:45 Hagbard: The other idea corresponds to tightening the 2. long games criteria from 25 hours to 10 hours.
08-28/13:42 Hagbard: That would save the sleep.
But it would also bring us back to the times when a game could go on perhaps for six months.
By the way, right now the "protected 2 hours" is removed, so we see how it works.
08-28/13:37 Draganov: On the other hand, we need to find a way to speed up the play of extremely slow players. For example, Sqaree, Luizz and Garun19 are painfully slow players. They usually play 1 move per day no matter how complex or not is the position. So, it is frustrating for their opponents who wants more dynamic games. I think if a player is forced to move in 8 hours such slow players will be in situation in which they need to make 2-3 moves per day, which is acceptable for both sides.
08-28/13:33 Draganov: @Hagbard, what I saw as a problem with the timing is that if the time buffer is used up, the added time per move is not enough. For example, I was in situations in which I used up my time buffer and had 2 hours remaining until timing out. Then, I and my opponent played 10-20 moves in a row and my time buffer continue to be too small. I think we need a minimum of 8 hours to be the protected minimum of time remaining until timing-out. So, for example, if a player manage to make a move, then he needs to have at least 8 hours added to his time buffer.
08-28/10:39 Hagbard: Alternative: No protection, i.e. no protected 2 hours.
08-28/09:44 Hagbard: Thanks for bringing up the matter.
The timing in the tournament games is loosened to x5 because of far away places like California (and non-tourn. games to x2). But timing of the end game is slightly tightened, so that timing can limit very long games.
It is certainly not encouraged (!!!) to not sleep, in order to move before 2 hours. The intention of the 2 hours is, that whenever the night comes in whatever part of the world, it will be the timeout of that game.
Long games are limited two ways:
1. When the player used 6.5 days ( + some extra for number of moves), then the time increment per move will slowly begin to fall. If the opponent also used 6.5 days, it means that it will begin to happen when a game lasted for +13 days.
2. A move must be done before 3 days. This limit falls very slowly, so that when a game is 80 moves long, then a move must be done before 2 days. And at 100 moves, a move before 1 day (25 hours).
It is terrible if the final 2 hours per move limit should bereave players of their good night's sleep.
But without a limit something like that, how could the timer tell that a game must time out? In live chess you exactly know when the flag falls and it's over. In the tournament game you're not there live, and instead of a few seconds as in live chess, you must have fx. 2 hours to react near the timeout.
08-28/08:10 sqaree: It also means white always has a winning strategy, just by not resigning.
If the timing is not improved, I will not play the tournament (again, I know nothing's going to change)
08-28/08:08 sqaree: Players should not be incentivized to sacrifice a normal night's sleep just to stay alive in the game.
I know I write a complaint like that every year and nothing ever happens.
08-28/08:06 sqaree: A recent "loss" made me look up if the timing mode on this site has improved and I noticed in the championship it's still only 2 hours that are protected.
08-28/03:51 garun19: Registers for the WTF Copenhagen tournament.
08-27/08:46 garun19: Registers for the WTF Copenhagen tournament.
08-25/16:19 Luizz: Registers for the WTF Hist.Hnef. tournament.
08-25/12:00 Hagbard: Plan:
With the new Race Games tourn. format, you might have 32 race games (17 players last year), and at the same time 4 Copenhagen, Hist. and Sea games.
To give a more quiet start to the tafl games, the race games can start a bit later, Oct. 1st.
The tafl tourn. still start Sep. 15th.
08-15/16:23 Hagbard: I suppose it is 9x9, 11x11 and perhaps 13x13
08-15/16:05 Colophonius: I guess there's no room for including Brandubh in the Historical Hnefatafl Section, is it?
08-14/23:08 Colophonius: Registers for the WTF Race Games tournament.
08-14/10:37 Hagbard: A month to start of WTF World Championship tournament 2024. Now 18 players registered:
Copenhagen:
Paca, sqAree, Luizz, Hitchcock, Ailill, brave-frog, Hagbard, Tonythebook, Paul7, Jrton80, Potapych, Nikolai Hristov, Fraech, emanuelesaiu, MasterV
Historical:
Paca, Dimetr, MasterLuke, Ailill, brave-frog, Hagbard, Tonythebook, Paul7, Jrton80, Potapych
Sea:
Ailill, brave-frog, Hagbard, Tonythebook, Paul7, Potapych
Race:
rosk, brave-frog, Hagbard, Tonythebook, Paul7, Potapych, Nikolai Hristov
08-12/22:56 MasterV: Registers for the WTF Copenhagen tournament.
08-12/19:02 emanuelesaiu: Registers for the WTF Copenhagen tournament.
08-12/18:14 Hagbard: New in gallery: preparing for the Medieval Festival.
08-12/15:07 Hagbard: That's right.
The game reached 106 moves, and so the limit per move is 25 hours.
But since there's still a big time buffer, it is far away from the threatening final 2 hours per move.
At start: limit 3 days per move.
At 80 moves: limit 2 days per move.
At 100 moves: limit 1 day per move.
This is to shorten the end games, which have sometimes taken a very long time.
08-12/10:54 Draganov: @Hagbard, could you check the timing in the game between me and Casshern. I think something is wrong with the time buffer. The game took long time and I used up almost all of my time buffer. However, after I made a move today, the time buffer of Casshern is also reduced and he has 24 hours left until timing-out despite having 3.7 days left of time buffer. I suppose the problem is that when the game took long time, both players will have 24 hours maximum to make their next move or I might be wrong in my assumption?
08-11/09:46 Hagbard: Marten Walinga who made the video about Draughts is two times World Champion of Frisian Draughts.
Our Zealand board games community was privileged to receive a visit from him two years ago, and this meeting was the inspiration for transforming the Saami Dablo into "Frisian Dablo" with mandatory capture.
The next World Championship tournament of Frisian Draughts is upcoming August 16th.
08-10/21:39 Hagbard: The two Dimetr setups are an interesting case and not quite resolved.
Casshern has still some games in the tournaments, and thus the balances will probably be influenced by "The Millar Effect": Any setup which Millar (crust) tested, apparently had a perfect balance of 1, because Millar would in any setup win all games as black and as white. I think that we also have an identical "Casshern Effect", so that the games left will draw the balances towards 1.
08-10/13:35 Dimetr: I mean - the king can quickly escape, if black plays weakly, but black will be a little stronger, among top players.
So we can add shield wall, ti help white break black's defense
08-10/13:26 Dimetr: Hagbard!
About Dimetr 2 version.
Look games between strongest players (Casshern, Draganov, Раса) - it is clear that white has no advantage.
Yes, you can quickly lose the king, with a weak play of black - that's why the balance favor of whites, now.
But in a serious game, black should be a little stronger.
So, If we will realize that white is stronger - we can make black first move.
But, I think contrary - it will be better to help white. For example, we can add shield wall rule
08-08/08:03 MasterLuke: It strikes me how much difference in balance there is between the two Historical 11xx11 Tawlbwrdd games, just by letting the whites begin.
08-07/22:25 Hagbard: Now we're at it, the same list for 11x11:
Hist. Hnef. Lewis diamond 11x11, bal. +1.47
Historical Hnefatafl 11x11 (Welsh Tawlbwrdd-w), bal. +1.02
Hist. Hnef. Lewis cross-w 11x11, bal. -1.04
Hist. Hnef. Lewis cross 11x11, bal. -1.07
Historical Hnefatafl 11x11 (Welsh Tawlbwrdd), bal. -1.21
Hist. Hnef. T diamond 11x11, bal. -1.88
Hist. Hnef. T cross 11x11, bal. -2.10
Sea battle Lewis diamond 11x11, bal. +1.96
Sea battle T circle 11x11, bal. +1.33
Sea battle-aleks 11x11, bal. 1.00
Sea battle T cross 11x11, bal. -1.05
Sea battle T cross-w 11x11, bal. -1.10
Sea battle-204577-w 11x11, bal. -1.21
Sea battle T diamond 11x11, bal. -1.34
Sea battle-204577 11x11, bal. -1.74
08-07/21:51 Hagbard: Ramsoe
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRGGsyDTSEo
Jeg vil saa gerne
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9MIGUmJagU
08-07/16:45 Draganov: These two variants are the only working from the mentioned:
Historical Hnefatafl-w 13x13 (Dimetr 2), bal. +1.63 from 92 games
Sea battle tafl-w 13x13 (Parlett), bal. +1.67 from 32 games
The balance is great (in my opinion +1.6 is much more playable than -1.2). Moreover, I am expecting the balance to become better for the blacks over time. So, maybe the real balance after 1000 games will be about +1.2
08-07/13:49 Fraech: Registers for the WTF Copenhagen tournament.
08-07/11:08 Hagbard: The 13x13 board is still a problem child.
The new variants are still under test and their balances are still floating.
But as of now the picture is:
Historical Hnefatafl-w 13x13 (Dimetr 2), bal. +1.63 from 92 games
Historical Hnefatafl 13x13 (Nielsen), bal. -1.24
Historical Hnefatafl 13x13 (Parlett), bal. -1.29
Historical Hnefatafl 13x13 (Nielsen 2), bal. -1.32
Historical Hnefatafl-w 13x13 (Dimetr 1), bal. -1.40 from 24 games
Historical Hnefatafl-w 13x13 (Parlett), bal. -1.56
Historical Hnefatafl 13x13 (modif. Parlett), bal. -1.73
Sea battle tafl-w 13x13 (Parlett), bal. +1.67 from 32 games
Sea battle tafl 13x13 (Nielsen), bal. +1.31
Sea battle tafl 13x13 (modif. Parlett), bal. -1.08
Sea battle tafl 13x13 (Nielsen 2), bal. -1.42
08-06/16:44 Nikolai Hristov: Registers for the WTF Copenhagen tournament.
08-06/16:43 Nikolai Hristov: Registers for the WTF Race Games tournament.
08-05/13:02 Потапыч: Registers for the WTF Race Games tournament.
08-05/13:02 Потапыч: Registers for the WTF Sea Battle tournament.
08-05/13:01 Потапыч: Registers for the WTF Hist.Hnef. tournament.
08-05/13:01 Потапыч: Registers for the WTF Copenhagen tournament.
08-05/01:34 Jrton80: Registers for the WTF Hist.Hnef. tournament.
08-05/01:34 Jrton80: Registers for the WTF Copenhagen tournament.
08-03/11:35 Paul7: Registers for the WTF Race Games tournament.
08-03/11:35 Paul7: Registers for the WTF Sea Battle tournament.
08-03/11:35 Paul7: Registers for the WTF Copenhagen tournament.
08-03/11:35 Paul7: Registers for the WTF Hist.Hnef. tournament.
08-02/23:37 Hagbard: yeh but I give it up for now -
08-02/21:13 Draganov: @Hagbard, maybe you should try playing with a jumping king. If the king can jump over an opponent piece, then the draw forts will be vulnerable. Especially if the king is captured from 4 sides. Another simpler solution would be to declare a win if one of the sides completely surrounded the opponent's army including surrounding when one of the sides is on the edge.
08-02/18:55 Hagbard: Tested again Latrunculi against family.
The advices of Draganov are good advices. The soldiers survived, and the opponent lost only two men.
But we ended in a situation where the pieces could only move back and forth, i.e. a draw again.
I begin to think that my ideas of Latrunculi are on the wrong track.
08-02/13:17 Tonythebook: Registers for the WTF Race Games tournament.
08-02/13:17 Tonythebook: Registers for the WTF Sea Battle tournament.
08-02/13:16 Tonythebook: Registers for the WTF Hist.Hnef. tournament.
08-02/13:16 Tonythebook: Registers for the WTF Copenhagen tournament.
08-02/09:21 Hagbard: Registers for the WTF Race Games tournament.
08-02/09:21 Hagbard: Registers for the WTF Sea Battle tournament.
08-02/09:20 Hagbard: Registers for the WTF Hist.Hnef. tournament.
08-02/09:20 Hagbard: Registers for the WTF Copenhagen tournament.
08-02/09:10 brave-frog: Registers for the WTF Race Games tournament.
08-02/09:09 brave-frog: Registers for the WTF Sea Battle tournament.
08-02/09:09 brave-frog: Registers for the WTF Hist.Hnef. tournament.
08-02/09:09 brave-frog: Registers for the WTF Copenhagen tournament.
08-02/00:54 Hagbard: Most active Hnefatafl countries on this site July 2024:
1. USA
2. UK
3. Russia
4. Bulgaria
5. Moldavia
6. Germany
7. Denmark
8. Belgium
9. Canada
08-02/00:09 Ailill: Registers for the WTF Sea Battle tournament.
08-02/00:09 Ailill: Registers for the WTF Hist.Hnef. tournament.
08-02/00:09 Ailill: Registers for the WTF Copenhagen tournament.
08-01/14:41 Hitchcock: Registers for the WTF Copenhagen tournament.
07-31/22:17 MasterLuke: Registers for the WTF Hist.Hnef. tournament.
07-31/21:35 Luizz: Registers for the WTF Copenhagen tournament.
07-31/21:35 Hagbard: ok. But the statistics numbers are not so clear yet.
07-31/21:30 Dimetr: Hagbard! Dimetr 1 setup is imbalanced - black is much stronger. So, it will be better to play Dimetr 2 (perhaps) - I think, balance is fine.
07-31/20:58 Dimetr: Registers for the WTF Hist.Hnef. tournament.
07-31/19:45 sqaree: Registers for the WTF Copenhagen tournament.
07-31/16:34 rosk: Registers for the WTF Race Games tournament.
07-31/16:21 Hagbard: Absolutely a possibility, if players agree.
Two rounds give time for a third round when necessary. Since both players are very strong, the result could often be 1-1, and so the surviving pieces are counted the Saami way and the winner found.
07-31/16:06 Draganov: And the additional round must be in Sahkku
07-31/16:04 Draganov: I think a final match between the tied players would work best in Race games. The games are quick and another additional round between tied players will not take much time. If the players are tied again, then we can use additional criteria such as pieces taken to determine the winner.
07-31/15:10 Hagbard: With two race rounds, there's a fair chance that more players end with identical point sums.
I asked AI, what Formula One would do about that:
In Formula 1, if multiple drivers end the season with the same number of points, specific rules are used to determine the winner. These are the tie-breaking rules:
1. Most wins: The driver with the most race wins during the season is declared the winner.
2. Most second places: If the number of wins is the same, the driver with the most second-place finishes is considered.
3. Most third places: If there is still a tie, the driver with the most third-place finishes is considered.
4. Most fourth places, and so on: This process continues with fourth places, fifth places, etc., until the tie is broken.
5. Other criteria: If all these criteria are exhausted and there is still a tie, it can be decided based on further factors such as pole positions and fastest laps, although this is rarely necessary.
These rules ensure there is always a clear winner in the event of a tie on points.
07-31/13:03 Раса: Registers for the WTF Hist.Hnef. tournament.
07-31/13:02 Раса: Registers for the WTF Copenhagen tournament.
07-31/11:46 test1: Registers for the WTF Race Games tournament.
07-31/11:45 test1: Registers for the WTF Sea Battle tournament.
07-31/11:44 test1: Registers for the WTF Hist.Hnef. tournament.
07-31/11:43 test1: Registers for the WTF Copenhagen tournament.
07-31/11:35 Hagbard: ;)
07-31/11:24 Draganov: @Hagbard, I think two round-robin rounds for Race games would be better.
07-30/12:38 Hagbard: Race games, an alternative could be:
Just two rounds, Sahkku and Daldos14. Still Round Robins and Formula One points.
With still 17 players this would be 32 + 32 = 64 games instead of 114.
07-30/12:20 Hagbard: Estimates for the WTF tourn.
The Copenhagen games are the longest, each game could last up to roughly 32 days.
Last year it took 4 rounds. So a rough estimate is that the whole tourn. could last for 128 days and end about Jan. 21st. But hopefully long before that.
If I fx. join all lines, I could at best hope to live for two rounds.
I would have 4 + 4 Copenhagen games.
4 + 4 Hist. Hnef. games
4 + 4 Sea games
32 + 32 + 28 + 22 race games (if 17 players like last year)
I all 24 tafl games and 114 race games.
That is rather many race games ...
07-29/22:53 Hagbard: New in gallery: viking ship visit in Roskilde.
07-29/21:05 Hagbard: thanks, I'll try that
07-29/20:47 Draganov: @Hagbard, try to play Latrunculi with moving your pieces together and advancing slowly in groups. You can also move and cover squares by placing two soldiers in a formation resembling the move of a knight in chess. For example solider on D2 and another soldier on E4. Avoid exchenging pieces and try to occupy as much squares as you can slowly choking your opponent. I think it is possible for a player to keep his pieces by moving them carefully in groups.
07-29/19:02 Hagbard: Tested again Latrunculi against family. This time with reduced board size 6x8, it worked much better and very well.
But both players very easily lost so many men that it is a draw.
I guess that some of the board game sharks here could think of a playing style which does not lose all those men.
07-29/12:39 Hagbard: After a hundred games or so, the balances are rather much stable.
On the invites list, the games are sorted such that the best balances are on the primary list, the next best balances on the extended list, and some bad balances on the bottom list.
07-29/12:25 Draganov: @Hagbard, is it possible to extract the balance for the most popular variants over the years? I mean to see what was the balance for Tablut, Copenhagen, Welsh Tawlbwrdd (Bell setup) in 2023, 2022 and back to 2012-2013. I wonder if there is a change in the balance over the year. I suppose that when a variant is new, it is easier for the whites to win, then the more years passed, the harder for whites become.
07-29/10:21 Hagbard: Viking King Hall
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yg6zJf5I7M
07-29/09:52 MasterLuke: @Hagbard: OK, thanks for the info.
07-29/09:46 Hagbard: Yes, we found
Historical Hnefatafl 13x13 (Parlett) BALANCE - 1.29 from 880 games
Historical Hnefatafl-w 13x13 (Parlett) BALANCE - 1.86 from 100 games
These two balance numbers cannot both be true, because it should be easier for white to begin and not harder.
The true balance, however, is probably closer to -1.86 than to -1.29
07-29/06:03 MasterLuke: I noticed that the regular historical 9x9 and 11x11 versions are replaced with the 'white begins'-versions. Since we're testing tournaments on a 13x13 format currently (Dimetr 1 and 2), I wonder: did we ever try the Parlett set-up on a 13x13 board with white starters?
07-26/17:27 Hagbard: This weekend Roskilde gets a fine visit from Norway:
The Viking Ship Gaia, a reconstruction of Norway's largest viking ship sailed from Toensberg July 21st and arrives here tomorrow.
1991 this ship crossed the Atlantic from Norway to New York, USA, on occasion of the 1000 years anniversary of Leif Ericsson's arrival to America.
https://www.vikingeskibsmuseet.dk/nyheder/verdensberejst-vikingeskib-fra-norge-besoeger-vikingeskibsmuseet-i-weekenden
07-26/16:41 Hagbard: Nowadays I for one agree on this. It's been useful to shift to white begins in many games.
07-26/15:30 ChaolAibhne: I'm interested to see that a number of the Tafl variants proposed for the WTF tournament are employing the principle that white plays first, which I think will lead to better-balanced games. It's been useful to see the outcomes of experiments in this area, but I wonder if we have made resolving this question more complicated than it need be. I've been conducting an experiment where I've described Tafl to several people unfamiliar with the game: "One player is trying to get a certain piece to a place of safety, while the other player is trying to prevent this". I then ask which player they think starts first. Unhesitatingly, and sometimes puzzled by my asking a question with such an obvious answer, every single person has given as their answer, the player who is trying to reach safety. Perhaps the reason why Linnaeus, in his description of Tablut, did not record who starts first is because this would be instinctively understood by anyone. In which case, perhaps we adopt the principle of white playing first as our default, unless empirical evidence shows that this unbalances a particular variant too much?
07-26/11:51 Hagbard: Plan:
At the WTF-tourn. players leave the tourn. if they lost 5 games.
(4 is too few, since 4 eliminated AlexHnef in round 1 last year. 6 is unnecessary many.)
The other mishap last year, that sqAree timed out before starting, can still happen; timeout if you've not started within 3 days.
Copenhagen: Copenhagen 11x11
Hist.: Saami Tablut 9x9, Hist. Hnef. Lewis cross-w 11x11 and possibly Historical Hnefatafl-w 13x13 (Dimetr 1 or 2)
(13x13 if it's well known)
Sea: Sea battle-w 11x11 and possibly Sea battle tafl-w 13x13 (Parlett)
(Sea battle 9x9 possibly too small board)
(13x13 if it's well known)
Race: Sahkku, Daldos 16, Daldos 14 and Sahkku
(Daldos 12 possibly too small board)
The idea of lines of Dablo and Gods, dropped for now, there could already be plenty of simultaneous games. Perhaps these two lines next spring.
07-26/00:44 Hagbard: Se det summer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLGkFEnuRW8
07-24/17:21 Hagbard: The Daldøs' here have the extra square in the middle row. Only Sahkku has not.
07-24/17:16 ChaolAibhne: @Hagbard The Wikipedia article on Daldøs (both the English and Danish versions) acknowledges variations in both board layout and play. However common to all the variants mentioned by the article is the fact of the central row having one extra hole, forming the 'bow' of a boat-shaped board, which the versions played here on the site do not have. Is that simply because the Wikipedia article has omitted some regional variants, or is this an adaptation that has been made for the site?
07-23/17:54 Hagbard: Tested the Latrunculi with family and learnt three things:
1. It's necessary to capture a king in a corner with two men, otherwise the king can hide in a corner forever.
2. The board should be less high than wide, because otherwise there's too much space for the men to run about forever.
3. Even with less space, it'll probably often happen that there are few pieces left, which run about forever, so that it'll be necessary to agree for a draw.
Otherwise the game functioned very well.
07-23/00:30 Hagbard: New in gallery: Trelleborg Viking Festival.
07-22/17:24 Hagbard: New in gallery: game sets from Luk Martens.
07-22/10:52 Draganov: @Раса, some days ago Hagbard said that Latrunculi could be added after several months. If you want you and I can play it correspondently using game chat.
07-22/10:43 Раса: Скоро ли латрункули появятся на этом сайте?