05-12/11:54 gulo: The Friðþjófs saga “hásæti” is not in the context of tafl at all, so the AI likely made that up. As far as I’m aware the central square only has a term in Carl Linnaeus’ tablut descriptin where it’s called “arx regia”, i.e. “king’s castle”. Though in brandub it may have been poetically referred to as both a hill and a castle.
05-12/11:52 gulo: The AI is very unreliable!
In Hervarar saga the defending pieces are dark (or red/brown depending on the source text) and the attackers white. However in Old Irish brandub the pieces might have been the other way around (poem says “My famed brandub ... five voiceless men of white silver and eight of red gold”).
We do have a name for pieces, “húnn”, but the meaning is unclear and it might only refer to the defending pieces.
The king is named ”hnefinn” (definite singular) in Hervarar saga, which means ”the fist”, check wiktionary’s article on ”hnefi” for declension.
For source texts I recommend Heimskringla.no, where you can search for the terms in most of the sagas.
The Sàmi/Latin, Irish, and Welsh sources all have their own terms too of course.
05-11/09:18 Hagbard: Brave-frog added to the x10 list
05-11/04:04 Jrton80: we really need to allow Brave-frog extended time - he is in the trenches - things need to be adjusted, assuming he is still breathing
05-08/14:42 Draganov: @Topps, I answered your email. Sorry for answering late but I didn't often check my email.
05-08/10:46 Hagbard: Colors and Symbolism
Colors are not always mentioned explicitly in Old Norse texts, but:
* The pieces were likely **dark vs. light** (black/white or natural and colored wood, stone, or glass).
* In archaeological finds (e.g., Birka and Gokstad), some pieces are made of glass—some clear, some dark.
* It's generally assumed that **attackers were dark (black)** and **defenders were light (white)**.
05-08/10:43 Hagbard: References from the Sagas
* The word *hnefi* appears in several sagas (e.g., *Hervarar saga ok Heiðreks*) and literally means “fist,” but in the context of the game it refers to the king piece.
* In *Fridthjófs saga ins frœkna*, the expression *konungr í hásæti* ("the king in the high seat") is used, alluding to the king's central position on the board.
* In *Orms Þórólfssonar saga*, there's a scene where two people are playing *tafl*, and one captures the other's *hnefi*, likely meaning the king was captured or killed.
05-08/10:39 Hagbard: Vocabulary from Old Norse
English Old Norse Meaning
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Board game *tafl* General word for board games; also the board itself
King *hnefi* The central piece (hence *Hnefatafl*, "King's board")
Game piece *taflmenn* (pl.) Playing pieces, typically divided into attackers and defenders
Attackers *svertingar* (reconstructed) Dark-colored or "black" pieces, often described as enemies
Defenders *hvítir menn* / *hvítingar* "White men" or white pieces - protectors of the king
05-08/10:28 Hagbard: The words are mentioned in Nordic sagas. I don't have a certain overview there, so I tried and ask ChatGPT to find it. ChatGPT sometimes just invents some answer (luckily rarely), so this answer might or might not be accurate.
...
In the Old Norse sagas and related sources, *Hnefatafl* (and other *tafl* games) are mentioned several times, and some terminology for the game's components - pieces, roles, and colors - can be traced. Here's an overview of the terms the Vikings likely used:
05-07/21:00 Topps: @Hagbard Thanks very much for linking the recorded champion games! I hadn't thought of that! I'll definitely incorporate those into my research!
@Draganov I sent you a message on e-mail :) I think I got it to the right email, but if not can you write me?
Also, this might be a rather general question, but do any of you know if the attackers or defenders pieces is called something specific? I see the 'King' mostly described as the king, but the other pieces are usually described as "the attackers", "the defenders", "black" or "white". Do any of you know if they have an actual name?
05-07/18:12 Zubin: Good to know, thank you
05-07/12:33 Hagbard: in general, an even trade is considered an advantage to white (defenders). Because it creates more room for white's escape routes, and less black pieces for blocking
05-07/01:37 Zubin: My guess is that, ceteris paribus, even trades benefit the black pieces in Copenhagen 11x11. Is that correct?
05-04/22:21 Zubin: That makes sense. Thank you
05-04/14:36 Draganov: Shieldwall is working only when its finishing move happened on one of the sides and not on the front.
05-03/18:35 Zubin: Never mind, I think I understand, it is a failed shieldwall
05-03/18:23 Zubin: In this position, if black plays d5-d2, the d1 viking is not captured: https://i.imgur.com/QAwcOb4.png Why not? Isn't it surrounded?
04-30/14:25 Hagbard: - it's logical that since one man cannot kill anybody, pieces must work two or more together. Exception: one piece can work together with a forbidden square (throne and corners).
04-30/10:47 Hagbard: - and I guess that there are advanced chess-like strategies such as "cover all lines", "cover all men" etc.
In the tactics I like to use pairs of men, either placed in opposite corners of a 2*3 rectangle, or in a line at distance 3 (man - blank - blank - man).
04-30/10:32 Hagbard: My playing strength is only in the middle, but here are examples of strategy from two strong-king world champions:
https://web.archive.org/web/20180322075054/http://tim-millar.co.uk/
https://aagenielsen.dk/hnefataflforum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=154
04-29/23:49 Topps: Hello Vikings!
As @Hagbard mentioned, I am in the process of writing my thesis on the topic of Hnefatafl strategies, and I would love some input on different strategic approaches you advanced players use or find interesting. I am mainly examining the Fetlar ruleset, but if you have any strategies, game knowledge or insights that apply to other rulesets, I would very much like to hear them! If you are interested in participating, feel free to email me at birk_topp.at.hotmail.dot.com or just write here on the site :) Thank you for your time!
(e-mail written like that for similar reason as @Draganov mentioned)
04-29/12:58 Plantagenet: Thanks.
04-29/09:06 Hagbard: fixed
04-28/23:14 Plantagenet: Why am I unable to offer games with x5 or x2 timing?
04-24/10:26 Luizz: Thats good, then at least that accusation seems to be wrong. However, I still find aliases quite negative for the community, especially if both accounts are playing actively
04-23/13:11 Hagbard: - more aliases did not participate in the same tournament in the WTF World Champ., this is checked every year -
04-23/11:21 Luizz: I agree with Draga that alt accounts are confusing and unfair. They screw with the rating, and give the illusion that there are more strong players than there actually are. If people want to experiment, they should play unrated games, but not fool everyone with a secret account. However, I can tolerate it as long as they dont enter a tournament with both accounts. I believe death and Odin frequently participate in the WTF, therefore I hope Draganovs suspicion is wrong.
04-22/19:02 Draganov: @Gulo, in my opinion it is also unfair to have more than one account. There are many problems with that but unfortunately the top players tend to have multiple accounts. I think I am the only top player with only one account. Based on my investigation these accounts are fakes:
Bubbles = Casshern (same style, no talking)
Раса = Alex Hnefatafl
Death = OdinHimself
Bingoboy = Cacreal (bingo said is Cacreal's son)
Fjorlag = Herjan
04-22/18:53 Draganov: @Hagbard, I am open to share my knowledge on the game. So, you can give my email address to the student:
p.draganov87at.gmail.dot.com (I am writing my email like this to prevent some scams).
04-22/15:57 Hagbard: I received this mail and think that perhaps some of our enthusiastic players could have a feedback to give
...
I am writing my bachelor thesis at Umeaa University in Sweden, and after a recent obsession with the game Hnefatafl, I decided to write my thesis about it. For my thesis, I am writing about strategies and their effectiveness in the game. I would very much like to talk to some experts about the game, and gather additional information, strategies and knowledge about the game.
If you have time for a chat about the game or you know anyone who might be interested, please contact me!
Thanks very much for your time!
Sincerely Birk Topp-Joergensen
04-22/15:20 Hagbard: In a few cases a player thinks of a "better" alias and makes a new one. Therefore more than two aliases is blocked. The influence on the balance calculation is minimal.
A new alias also affects others' rating minimally.
04-22/15:13 gulo: What’s the policy for double accounts? Isn’t it skewing balance measurements somrwhat if highly skilled players keep making new accounts (not to mention cheap and unfair for other players, especially for other highly ranked players)?
04-21/15:42 Draganov: @WillieBGoode, welcome to our coummunity! I would strongly recommend starting with Fetlar when learning how to play variants with a strong king. It is even simpler than Old Hnefatafl and it will prepare you better for the Copenhagen variant. When it comes to weak king variants, the best starting point in my opinion is Tablut.
04-20/07:46 WillieBGoode: Thank You Hagbard !! Much appreciate your insight towards a newbie!
04-19/19:37 Hagbard: * the change to white begins for some games is to improve the game balance.
* yes, I'd recommend to start with the simpler games: Simple Tafl, Tablut, Tawlbwrdd. Sea Tafl looks simple on paper, but is not played much.
* "Old Hnefatafl" and "Fetlar Hnefatafl" are the simpler strong-king games.
04-19/19:30 WillieBGoode: Hello,
I’m new to both this website and Hnefatafl and its variations.
I’ve been scouring the website and the rules for Simple Tafl and Twalbwrrd . I’ve noted the both rule sets indicate than Black(attackers) go first but I’ve noticed the the games in the current tournament archive have WHITE (Defenders) going first???
Why?
Are you just testing this change?
Or, does this make the games more balanced?
Secondly, since I’m new, I’m focusing on learning Simple Tafl, Tawlbwrrd,some Sea battle (for mid game) and some Irish Brandubh. Does this seem like a good plan to become reasonably proficient?
Lastly. When I graduate to Corner Escape. Should I follow Old Hnefatafl or Copenhagen? To be honest, the rules for Old Hnefatafl makes sense to me but it looks like many more games are played using Copenhagen (but I’m not really sure why). Copenhagen at first glance seems slow and prodding
Thanks to everyone who helps this rookie out
Hopefully I posted in the correct spot
04-16/21:49 Hagbard: For non-race games in everyday tournaments, games are set up for the four players nearest in rating. Fx. the rating difference from cacreal to one of the missing opponents is 900!
04-16/12:15 cacreal: @Hagbard - in tournamnet 946 - two sets of my games didn't start - can they be added (EF & brave Frog)
03-26/10:46 Draganov: @Hagbard, another useful feature would be if we have a button called something like 'Increase opponent's time' and by clicking it we can give our opponent additional 24 hours on his time buffer.
03-26/09:12 Hagbard: @EF, du er kommet til at klikke paa Opgiver
03-25/18:18 EF: @Hagbard something strange happened with Tournament 944, Historical Hnefatafl 7x7 (Irish Brandubh 2) Paca /Ef. I somehow won the game before it had ended...
03-23/22:23 Draganov: @EF I think it will be better to just start two games as a rematch and if you want you can cancel one of the games in two clicks. For me it will be useful if we have the opportunity to start a certain number of games against an opponent in one click. For example, when I started a 10-game match against some players I need to manually invite the player 5 times in order to have 10 games against him. It will be much convinient for me if I could invite a player and set up the number of the games that I want to play. Imagine a button invite for a 4-game match or buttons like 'invite for 6, 8 or 10' game match.
03-23/20:43 EF: @xerxes I would rather have it be just one game, so that you wouldn't have to wait until both games have ended.
03-23/20:40 xerxes: @Aage - that seems a good idea from EF. It would have to create two games, Black and White for each player.
03-23/18:30 EF: It would be very helpful if we had an "invite for rematch"-button whenever a game ends, to avoid having to go through the invite process.
03-11/07:42 Hagbard: Welcome to the East Lansing students, good to see you here again
03-09/15:33 Luizz: I'm not entirely convinced by that "ultrastrong player" argument. As we are a super small community, the skills vary greatly between the players, even among the "ultrastrong" ones. Also, the rating may not be that accurate as in other, more active communities.
For me, it definitely feels like black has an advantage in Copenhagen. We would propably need an engine to find a definite answer to the advantage of one color.
Having white play first would be interesting to try for a few times, however, I dont think it would change the overall game that much honestly
03-04/06:24 Hagbard: And also, the development PC has burnt off.
03-03/22:21 Draganov: I tested this variant two years ago in the mobile app. I am not sure if the first move is giving the whites advantage or not. For example, Millar gambit requires the blacks to move 1.h1-h3 and then the gambit is the white's response to that first move. However, with the whites playing first, the blacks could create attacks against white's first move. I think it will be interesting to test this variant. I had a chat with Alex and he is willing to test this variant. So, maybe we could play a match and test it if the variant is implemented here.
03-03/17:51 Hagbard: A reason I'm not so fond of that, is that the balance is already +1.33
Among ultrastrong players, +1.10
03-03/17:37 Draganov: @Hagbard, could you create a Copenhagen 11x11 with whites moving first? I think it will be good to test such a variant.
03-02/20:07 Draganov: @All, I am practically retired but I would like to comeback from retirement and focus on the game again for one match against Alex Hnefatafl in Copenhagen. I would like to play a match of 100 simultaneous games against him. I am also open to play such a match against Cacreal or everybody else who wants to challenge me in a 100 games match. I think such a long match could help bringing my game motivation back.
02-23/17:57 Hagbard: Thank you for asking! No it's ok for the time being. I switched to a very old emergency computer; it's very slow and has very few functions; but at least it can see the internet, so what more can one wish ... My fine well working computer burned off because of too much work. For a year and a half it also functioned as a TV-server, which was very heavy work.
02-23/14:20 Steiger: @Hagbard, what about your conp? Maybe you need some help?
02-13/14:54 Hagbard: info: my comp. broken down
02-12/18:16 Hagbard: New in gallery: board game day.