2026-07-12 14:28 CarstenCederholm: Registers for the WTF Copenhagen Tournament.
2026-07-11 20:30 Hattusili: Registers for the WTF Copenhagen Tournament.
2026-07-11 08:44 Dimetr: Registers for the WTF Historical Hnefatafl Tournament.
2026-07-10 18:04 Потапыч: Registers for the WTF Race Games Tournament.
2026-07-10 18:03 Потапыч: Registers for the WTF Historical Hnefatafl Tournament.
2026-07-10 18:03 Потапыч: Registers for the WTF Copenhagen Tournament.
2026-07-08 22:59 SuruRada: Registers for the WTF Copenhagen Tournament.
2026-07-08 21:09 henriquemattos: Registers for the WTF Copenhagen Tournament.
2026-07-05 20:29 Павло: Registers for the WTF Historical Hnefatafl Tournament.
2026-07-05 20:29 Павло: Registers for the WTF Copenhagen Tournament.
2026-07-05 20:29 Павло: Registers for the WTF Copenhagen Tournament.
2026-07-05 10:35 Hagbard: Good to see that sqAree has joined, after the strong performance last year.
Just a reminder that this year's tournament should be around 20% less exhausting, as players will again be eliminated after four losses instead of five.
2026-07-05 08:53 sqAree: Registers for the WTF Copenhagen Tournament.
2026-07-04 03:14 Murray7: Registers for the WTF Copenhagen Tournament.
2026-07-03 19:54 Tonythebook: Registers for the WTF Race Games Tournament.
2026-07-03 19:53 Tonythebook: Registers for the WTF Historical Hnefatafl Tournament.
2026-07-03 19:35 Tonythebook: Registers for the WTF Copenhagen Tournament.
2026-07-03 10:22 Colophonius: Registers for the WTF Race Games Tournament.
2026-07-03 00:23 Jrton80: Registers for the WTF Race Games Tournament.
2026-07-03 00:23 Jrton80: Registers for the WTF Copenhagen Tournament.
2026-07-02 23:51 Hagbard: Registers for the WTF Race Games Tournament.
2026-07-02 23:50 Hagbard: Registers for the WTF Historical Hnefatafl Tournament.
2026-07-02 23:50 Hagbard: Registers for the WTF Copenhagen Tournament.
2026-07-02 14:56 gulo: Registers for the WTF Historical Hnefatafl Tournament.
2026-07-02 12:05 xerxes: Registers for the WTF Race Games Tournament.
2026-07-02 10:39 Hagbard: For comparison, here are the updated game balances for the other Historical Hnefatafl 15×15 setups:
Historical Hnefatafl-w 15x15 (Walker): -1.38
Historical Hnefatafl-w 15x15 (Nielsen): -1.71
2026-07-02 00:03 SuruRada: Registers for the WTF Copenhagen Tournament.
2026-07-01 22:06 Ailill: Registers for the WTF Historical Hnefatafl Tournament.
2026-07-01 22:06 Ailill: Registers for the WTF Copenhagen Tournament.
2026-07-01 22:00 Hagbard: The two 15x15 setups for Historical Hnefatafl proposed by gulo are added.
Both variants have also been given the gulo/dimetr throne modification.
2026-07-01 17:30 Pokshtya: Registers for the WTF Race Games Tournament.
2026-07-01 16:44 Black Raven: Registers for the WTF Copenhagen Tournament.
2026-07-01 15:04 Waclaw: Registers for the WTF Copenhagen Tournament.
2026-07-01 13:52 rosk: Registers for the WTF Race Games Tournament.
2026-07-01 13:11 test1: Registers for the WTF Race Games Tournament.
2026-07-01 13:11 Alex Hnefatafl: Registers for the WTF Historical Hnefatafl Tournament.
2026-07-01 13:11 Alex Hnefatafl: Registers for the WTF Copenhagen Tournament.
2026-07-01 13:10 test1: Registers for the WTF Historical Hnefatafl Tournament.
2026-07-01 13:10 test1: Registers for the WTF Copenhagen Tournament.
2026-06-30 08:42 Hagbard: Sometimes real-life events make me think of Loki.
Norse mythology is full of stories about Loki.
Loki accomplishes many good things, and many not-so-good things.
In the end, things ended badly for the Loki of Norse mythology:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLPG7oykA6g
2026-06-30 07:18 Waclaw: I have the same error too.
2026-06-30 01:17 Black Raven: @Hagbard I keep getting this error when I try to check my games and it does not load for me:
Parse error: syntax error, unexpected integer "20", expecting ")" in /var/www/aagenielsen.dk/public_html/spilnavn.php on line 96
2026-06-29 19:56 MasterLuke: @gulo: yeah, I know what you mean. I experienced the same thing a few years ago. I made the big mistake to make him a Facebook-friend, a few years ago. I'll spare you the shitload of insults I got from him. (of course I defriended him immediately after that). The fact I'm playing against him now on a tournament, is because I got 'trapped' accepting an invitation to participate, and it seems I cannot cancel the game. I guess because of he's a genius in playing Tafl is the only reason Hagbard tolerates him in this community.
2026-06-29 17:47 gulo: Now Alex is spewing out his antisemitic slurs at me through a game chat on Fellhuhn’s app.
2026-06-29 16:37 gulo: I’m not interested in 15x15 with strong king. I already proposed proper historical variants in the large forum:
https://aagenielsen.dk/hnefataflforum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=1903#p1903
2026-06-29 16:35 gulo: Also, the “throne” should be called “king’s castle” (that’s the only historical term we have, from Linnaeus).
2026-06-29 01:51 Waclaw: In my humble opinion, nothing needs to be added to or taken away from Copenhagen.
2026-06-29 01:16 Black Raven: I agree that the throne should be consistent among Hnefatafl variants. It is very confusing to have a different throne for Copenhagen and Historical. Honestly, I still have some problems with the new throne (I don't think it makes sense in a real world context for ordinary White pieces to be able to cross the throne), but it is still an improvement over what we had previously.
2026-06-28 20:16 Hagbard: AlexHnef sent some mails:
I meant adding the historical 15×15 version of Hnefatafl with a strong king, as well as Sea Battle 13 (Nielsen), but with White to move first.
I have mentioned this before. Historically, 15×15 boards have been found. If the tests prove successful, we will be able to say that, as researchers and reconstructors, we have finally managed to take this field one step further after so many years. There have already been several attempts to play on a 15×15 board. Now we should complete what we started.
And I also think that the same throne should be introduced into the Copenhagen variant.
2026-06-28 17:01 Hagbard: Alex Hnefatafl proposes a new
Historical 15x15
and a new
Sea Tafl 15x15.
Is there a need for these variants?
The latest year there were in all
9 games of Sea Tafl, and
38 games of board 15x15.
When testing new variants of these groups, there's risk that they don't work.
And if they work, there's a risk that they're not used.
2026-06-28 15:50 Hagbard: New in gallery: Midsummer Eve
2026-06-26 16:29 MasterLuke: Hi Folks,
I just posted something in the large forum. Check it out:
https://aagenielsen.dk/hnefataflforum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=177
2026-06-24 12:16 Antonius: Could somebody please explain the changes made to the throne in Historical 11 x 11 and 13 x 13? Thank you.
2026-06-24 11:38 Hagbard: Dimetr1 throne is also modified. The changes are effective immediately.
2026-06-23 17:23 gulo: I’d suggest the new rules also apply to 13x13 dimetr1. This variant would benefit more than dimetr2 from the change I think.
2026-06-23 17:16 Black Raven: @Hagbard does this affect 11 x 11 and 13 x 13 games currently in progress, or only future games?
2026-06-23 16:53 Hagbard: It's simpler to modify the existing two variants. On 11 and 13 boards the balance difference will be small, but it's also possible to limit the new calculation to future games
2026-06-23 16:27 gulo: Should the rule change not apply to a new set of variants of 11x11 and 13x13 then, with clean slate balance measurement?
2026-06-23 16:22 gulo: Oh, I thought unrated for the first tests meant the games wouldn’t impact player rating…
2026-06-23 13:49 Plantagenet: @Hagbard Thanks.
2026-06-23 12:32 Hagbard: fixed
2026-06-23 12:23 Plantagenet: @Hagbard I cannot play against another player. It's written: Parse error: syntax error, unexpected token "," in /var/www/aagenielsen.dk/public_html/klasse_braet.php on line 1531
2026-06-23 12:11 Hagbard: The Gulo-Dimetr throne modification is introduced to Historical 11 and 13.
2026-06-23 08:35 Hagbard: When the game balance of a new variant has been determined, the rating history is updated using the established balance.
2026-06-22 20:38 gulo: On another note: Are unrated games included in the rating history graph? Otherwise I don’t understand the sudden disrepancy in mine… I lost a lot of unrated brandub games lately due to time out, and my rating history is now about 100 off the main page rating.
2026-06-22 20:34 gulo: I wouldn’t mind testing it, even though statistics currently suggest that king side already has a slight advantage in those variants. I think the impact on balance will be much smaller the larger the board size.
2026-06-22 09:59 Hagbard: Alex Hnefatafl proposes that Gulo's and Dimetr's two changes to the throne rules in Tablut 9×9 should also be applied to the other Historical Hnefatafl variants, followed by a new round of testing. Initially applied to:
* Historical Hnefatafl 11×11
* Historical Hnefatafl 13×13
which will be used in the upcoming WTF tournament.
What do you think about this proposal?
2026-06-18 09:49 Hagbard: Jeg gik mig i lunden:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Drn8X7_qH64
2026-06-10 13:17 Hagbard: - To contradict myself, the large round eyes could also illustrate that when Odin sits upon his High Seat, he sees the whole world -
2026-06-10 07:18 Hagbard: (Several of the sagas contain stories about people losing their lives shortly after a game of Hnefatafl. I'm not sure it would be wise for anyone to capture this splendid king piece...)
2026-06-10 07:06 Hagbard: - One could also argue that the two ravens are there to indicate that the figure is indeed the king himself, rather than just another high-ranking nobleman -
2026-06-09 10:15 Hagbard: I have discussed the figure with AI and have arrived at a hypothesis:
* The two ravens on the armrests point to Odin.
* The two dragon heads on the backrest are the same kind of dragon heads that are found on the prows of Viking ships. This suggests that they are simply part of the throne's decoration and that the throne is the High Seat of the King of Lejre.
* It cannot be seen that the figure is missing one eye, which suggests that the figure represents the King of Lejre.
So the hypothesis is:
The figure is both Odin and the King of Lejre at the same time.
The throne is the High Seat of the King of Lejre.
The figure is the King of Lejre dressed in his finest ceremonial clothing.
2026-06-09 07:40 Hagbard: By the way, here is a podcast showing Odin From Lejre:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyaojezsK_I
2026-06-08 20:56 gulo: That’s nice! Let’s see how long it takes the professionals to figure that one out…
2026-06-08 13:54 Hagbard: Yesterday, Sunday, we revisited Lejre Museum because admission was free for the opening day of the season.
We also saw again the figure from the Royal Hall, Odin of Lejre.
The small Odin figure is indeed exactly the right size for a fine king piece in the Lejre King's Hnefatafl game! It would be perfectly suited for that!
https://lejremuseum.dk/
2026-06-08 11:56 Hagbard: - Hex was written during the long Covid isolation...
2026-06-08 11:54 Hagbard: That is true
2026-06-08 11:29 Plantagenet: @Hagbard Hex is also a very different game from Hnefatafl.
2026-06-08 11:05 Hagbard: I'm afraid Metamachy cannot be added here. It is a very different game and would require much work to implement.
2026-06-08 11:01 Hagbard: The Gulo/Dimetr changes are now mentioned here under Rules:
https://aagenielsen.dk/wtfturnering2026.php
The two small changes look promising. We could follow them a little longer and see how they work in the WTF tournament before adding them to the "official" rules page.
The setups for 11×11 and 13×13 have changed over time and are not completely fixed. In regular play, several different starting setups have proven viable.
2026-06-07 14:11 Plantagenet: @Hagbard Could you add some games like Metamachy? It's a chess variant played on a 12x12 board.
2026-06-06 11:23 gulo: If the 9x9 gulo-dimetr rules will be used for the WTF championship, I think the old historical rules sheets need an update to include them. Could also update the starting setups to the currently used 11x11 and 13x13 variants.
2026-06-05 07:54 Hagbard: Holder du af mig:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83nAOOLaZQk
2026-06-04 11:06 Hagbard: Now that the topic of the 2026 tournament has been raised, here is a draft of the tournament rules:
https://aagenielsen.dk/wtfturnering2026.php
2026-06-03 21:07 Hagbard: Perhaps the tournament could start a little earlier this year? For example:
1 Sept.: Copenhagen
8 Sept.: Historical
15 Sept.: Race Games
2026-06-03 08:50 Hagbard: Og det var en skærsommerdag:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tU9RnBopF68
2026-06-01 10:29 Waclaw: Thanks! It's just nice to know in advance what to prepare for.
2026-06-01 09:57 Hagbard: In 2025, the championship variant was "Historical Hnefatafl 9x9 (Saami Tablut-w)".
In 2026, it could be "Historical Hnefatafl 9x9 (aka Saami Tablut)" with Gulo's and Dimetr's adjustments, if there is support for it.
2026-06-01 09:36 Waclaw: I'm confused by the new names. Which version of 9x9 will be playable at the World Cup? Or will it only be 11x11 Lewis Cross?
2026-06-01 08:21 Hagbard: My suggestion would be that the 2026 World Championship follows the same format as the 2025 Championship by default.
See the "Next year" section here:
https://aagenielsen.dk/wtfturneval2025.php
2026-06-01 08:08 Colophonius: I would also say that the length of Brandubh 2.5w games is an indicator for the balance. If the games take longer to be decided than other Brandubh variants, that's a hint.
2026-06-01 07:34 Waclaw: What games will be featured at the 2026 World Championship? 9*9? 13*13?
2026-05-31 07:06 Hagbard: Når egene knoppes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUEe8QclsY8
2026-05-28 07:44 Hagbard: (These Danish songs that I am showing you praise the summer.
In Denmark, it is common for nature to be the main subject of songs.)
Det er i dag et vejr:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BsiHtoEB8U
2026-05-27 03:17 Waclaw: There will always be some balance (in someone's favor). Maybe for White, maybe for Black. But with the right opening, the chances are 50/50. And there's no predetermined series of moves that lead to victory. This is important. I haven't been able to win Black Ravena with any color in the last 200 games, even though I feel like I've used every possible move.
2026-05-27 02:42 Black Raven: *Less than five Black wins.
I think this is a pretty commonly observed pattern where White's advantage starts out large, but gradually shrinks as people get more experienced.
2026-05-27 02:41 Black Raven: I think we should wait a little longer to see if it evens out. White starting first certainly improves Black's chances. Also, currently in the tournament there are 11 White victories and 9 Black victories, which is very even. I am pretty sure that if the same people played in a Brandubh2 tournament there'd be less than five White wins at the end.
2026-05-26 21:45 Hagbard: It seems to be a problem to begin with white here -
2026-05-20 17:46 Black Raven: Thank you so much, Hagbard! I was really pleasantly surprised!
2026-05-20 14:27 Hagbard: ;)
2026-05-20 14:23 Waclaw: Hagbard! Спасибо!!!
2026-05-19 11:03 Ytreza: - and I would even claim that we are all far from understanding the strategical depth of Copenhagen, even the strongest players here.
2026-05-19 11:00 Ytreza: On the other hand I don't think Copenhagen rules are difficult to learn. Certainly way easier than chess.
We could have a "beginner" section different from the "historical" section, with simple hnefatafl variants.
As I said before, Copenhagen has a much deeper strategical depth than any other variant. I completely understand the motivation for historical accuracy, but Copenhagen is the only variant that has the potential to reach the level of chess or go.
2026-05-19 09:20 Hagbard: Copenhagen Hnefatafl is marked as the default because it is the most difficult variant, and 99% of the players are very experienced players.
If the focus were only on beginners, it would be natural to mark Historical Hnefatafl as the default -
2026-05-19 03:24 Waclaw: I believe Hagbard, Gulo, and Dimetre want to make the historical variants the primary ones. Then there's no need to improve Brandub, as it's unpopular and a waste of time.
But I'll be interested to see which variant will be more popular in 10 years: a spontaneous Copenhagen, or a focus on History. :)
2026-05-18 22:06 gulo: Looks good!
I also agree with Ytreza’s latest suggestion (except that historical be placed beneath modern, hard disagree on that ;)
2026-05-18 08:52 Hagbard: I modified the names list a bit again -
2026-05-18 07:22 gulo: The Welsh manuscript doesn’t add anything unique (other than the warning words which aren’t used here anyway). It appears to be a generic variant of hnefatafl, just called “taflborð”. So calling any specific variant “Welsh Tawlbwrdd” is quite a stretch.
This is unlike tablut, in which we may safely assume the Sámi added something since the Viking Age (if only the extra rules and warning words omitted here).
2026-05-18 06:25 gulo: I think it is a better candidate than the 11x11 with tablut rules for the throne/castle. That is also what Damian Walker thinks here:
“The manuscript that describes the rules of tawlbwrdd makes no mention of any special uses for the central square. As the game appears to function without them, I have not included them in these rules. But it is entirely possible that this is merely an omission in the Welsh source; it could be that tawlbwrdd was played in an identical way to Tablut described elsewhere on this site.“
http://tafl.cyningstan.com/page/172/tawlbwrdd
2026-05-17 23:10 Hagbard: Regarding Welsh Tawlbwrdd:
The article about Tawlbwrdd contains a board diagram with a very clearly marked throne square.
Is there a good basis for calling “Simple Hnefatafl 11x11” Welsh Tawlbwrdd?
2026-05-17 19:59 Ytreza: I agree with all these suggestions.
In addition, I suggest to replace "King captured from 2 sides, armed", by "King captured from 2 sides, edge escape"; and "King captured from 4 sides, armed", by "King captured from 4 sides, corner escape".
I also suggest to place "modern" before "historical" in the list. Copenhagen, the default, would then be on top.
2026-05-17 19:31 gulo: In my personal opinion, the “Saami Tablut” and “Welsh Tawlbwrdd” tags are also details, likely scaring away newcomers.
I would prefer to just call them “Historical Hnefatafl” 9x9 and 11x11 respectively, just like the current 13x13. (Again, only in the first selection screen).
In fact I do not consider the advanced 11x11 “Welsh”. The Welsh manuscript has more affinity with Simple Hnefatafl 11x11. That the marked centre square has a function other than practical placement is not supported by the manuscript text, but rather tagged on from the tablut rules.
I would also rather recommend Simple Hnefatafl 11x11 to newcomers since the larger boards are less punishing when you make mistakes.
2026-05-17 18:52 gulo: e.g. Lewis Cross… It will also confuse returning players a lot.
2026-05-17 18:51 gulo: Looks a lot cleaner. It looks like the details also disappeared in the other sections though. That is unfortunate. It’s now impossible for newcomers to know they’re playing e.g.
2026-05-17 09:47 Waclaw: I think the idea of basic variants is the best one.
Brandubh Section
1. 7*7 Brandubh (2.5w version)
Historical Section
1. 9*9 Tablut (Gulo-Dimeter version)
2. 11*11 Hnefatafl (Lewis Cross version)
Modern Section
1. 11*11 Hnefatafl (Copenhagen version)
Racing Games Section
1.
2.
3.
2026-05-17 08:58 Hagbard: Cleaned up the parentheses on the invitations main page.
2026-05-17 08:15 Ytreza: I suggest to remove "simple hnefatafl" from the standard selection, as we already have "market hnefatafl".
I also suggest to remove Fetlar, as Copenhagen is superior, and it's confusing to handle draws differently in different variants. Although I understand the historical importance of Fetlar for the federation.
By the way, some time ago I suggested that only direct (back and forth) repetitions could lead to white's loss, while longer cycles would lead to draws. This is more practical to check and, while still removing too easy draws, provides interesting marginal "draw forts". Any thoughts on that?
2026-05-17 08:06 Ytreza: In my experience, most of the time there is a rather limited amount of "candidate moves", and a lot of variations involve forced moves (typically because black must block).
But whatever :)
My point is that forts profoundly affect the stakes: the goal for white is not anymore to directly escape at corners, but rather to disorganise black so much that edges open and a fort can be built.
2026-05-17 07:55 Black Raven: Yes, in that sense I think Brandubh is more tactical than chess, however I feel that 11 x 11 Tawlbwrrd or 11 x 11 Fetlar are still more strategic than chess, at least in my opinion, since chess is a very tactical game to begin with. It is much more difficult to calculate variations on the 11 x 11 board to begin with, since there are so many more than in chess.
2026-05-17 07:46 Ytreza: I don't think mathematical complexity is equivalent to strategical depth. Without forts, hnefatafl is extremely tactical, more than chess (which is already very tactical compared to eg Go). By tactical I mean it is necessary to precisely calculate variations and any mistake is severely punished.
2026-05-17 07:42 Black Raven: @Ytreza, I agree with your suggestion to have a main version for only 1 or 2 main versions for each board size to appear when creating a game - it is much more beginner-friendly and less overwhelming. I think Brandubh2.5W should be the main 7 x 7 game though, and perhaps 11 x 11 should have two main versions, Copenhagen, and Tawlbwrrd Lewis Cross, since they are both very popular.
I also like @gulo's suggestion to have Brandubh separate, and to divide the rest between either Historical or Modern and Simple or Advanced.
2026-05-17 07:41 Ytreza: I put quotes when writing "solved" because I of course meant it in the modern, AI sense: getting an engine which is much stronger than humans and from which humans can learn.
2026-05-17 07:31 Black Raven: On the other hand, based on my statistical analysis for Brandubh, I estimate that 11 x 11 Hnefatafl, even without exit forts and shield walls should be far more complex than chess in terms of branching factor and total possible move combinations. That being said, I think that Brandubh is still a very strategic and interesting game (Brandubh2.5W games in Fellhuhn's app typically last more than 50 moves lately!), and any 11 x 11 or larger Hnefatafl game will be far more complex than chess.
2026-05-17 07:25 Black Raven: @Ytreza
I agree that Brandubh is a good starting point for beginners. It introduces the concepts of the throne and corner escape which are used in Copenhagen, but does not feel overwhelming with too many rules or complications like shield walls or exit forts.
However, I disagree with the point you made about an AI quickly solving Brandubh. Currently, even with modern supercomputers, the most complex game to have been completely solved is standard checkers. By my own statistical analysis I posted in this forum a few months ago, Brandubh is many orders of magnitude more complex than checkers, so it is highly unlikely that any AI would be able to solve it. Sure, there are AIs that are very good at chess, but chess is by no means solved. Secondly, while humans were able to actually solve Brandubh2 a while back, due to a "bug" in the rules that allowed White to always win very early, Brandubh2.5W which corrects this "bug" is much more balanced and I doubt that it will be solvable even by a computer.
2026-05-16 23:39 Ytreza: But at the end of the day, Copenhagen is much deeper than any other variant, because of the edge forts that open long term strategies for white. In my opinion, only Copenhagen reaches a complexity similar to chess (but with a much simpler ruleset than chess, which is very good).
This reminds of Go: it's playable on 9x9 and 13x13, faster and more tactical, but 19x19 is a completely different world in terms of strategical stakes.
2026-05-16 23:33 Ytreza: Actually I would strongly recommend AI developpers to start by Brandubh. The board is much smaller, it's much faster, endgame shouldn't be a problem (no forts...). It should be "solved" rather quickly and this would help to figure out the most balanced ruleset.
2026-05-16 23:29 Ytreza: Brandubh is nice, a good intro to hnefatafl as it features almost the same rules (corner win, special squares...). But as such, it's less beginner friendly than the 9x9 variants. I also think that 11x11 hnefatafl is more enjoyable, with very similar rules except king's capture.
2026-05-16 17:20 gulo: Definitely better!
I think this reenforces the notion that king side starting is standard for historical hnefatafl. Then we can get rid of the “w”.
Also, is it possible to hide the details (gulo-dimetr, etc.) in the first screen?
2026-05-16 15:10 Hagbard: Changed to rules which look better
2026-05-16 14:29 Ytreza: @Hagbard - that's already better. For the main variants it would be good if the linked rules apply only to the variant. For instance if I click on "Saami tablut" I should see only rules for a 9x9 board, otherwise it looks a bit messy.
2026-05-16 14:22 Hagbard: Something like this, if you open the invitations main list:
https://aagenielsen.dk/tafl_humans.php
2026-05-16 13:36 Waclaw: In this regard, I believe that the statement that the 7*7 board is solvable is unproven.
2026-05-16 13:33 Waclaw: I also want to refute the claim that a 7x7 board is solvable by humans. This is Alex's claim. But I've caught him using double standards three times (something he criticizes in others):
1. He told me that ArdRi was a balanced variant when I was a beginner. Then here on the forum, when I suggested everyone play, he said it was unbalanced.
2. He once won with Black when he had fewer than 12 checkers left. Then, when he found himself in a similar situation with Dragonov, he came up with a rule that Black must lose in this case.
3. He spoke negatively about AI, but recently said he was involved in its development.
2026-05-16 13:00 Waclaw: "Black Raven" found a balanced option. I believe it deserves to take the main 7x7 spot. Even if it doesn't qualify as historic.
2026-05-16 12:50 gulo: Personally I do not consider brandub a “historical hnefatafl” variant, partly because the source material hardly warrants that prefix, and partly because the working variants are so different from tablut and tawlbwrdd, the sources for hnefatafl’s historical rules, being probably the only likely ancient (if not historical) variant with corner win. It is in a category of its own.
2026-05-16 12:24 gulo: I think it is a good idea to have the currently accepted standard game variants stand out clealy as such. My suggestion would be to make clear divide between “modern” (strong king, corner win) and “historical hnefatafl” (normal king, edge win). (I think it is wrong to use “tafl” since that is just s generic term for “board game”).
Something like:
- Modern Hnefatafl 11x11 (Advanced)
Same as Copenhagen
- Modern Hnefatafl 11x11 (Simple)
Same as Fetlar (or similar)
- Historical Hnefatafl 11x11 (Advanced)
Lewis Cross
- Historical Hnefatafl 11x11 (Simple)
Lewis Cross without throne/castle, i.e. “Simple Tafl”
- Historical Hnefatafl 9x9 (Advanced)
Sámi tablut
- Historical Hnefatafl 9x9 (Simple)
Tablut without throne/castle, i.e. “Market Tafl”
- Historical Hnefatafl 13x13 (Advanced)
Dimetr2
- Historical Brandub 7x7 (Advanced)
Brandub2?
2026-05-16 12:19 Waclaw: If the community follows Ytreza suggestion, I believe the primary option for a 7x7 board is Brandub, with white going first and no way for anyone but the king to pass through the throne. Black Raven has posted detailed rules. It's an ideal and very balanced option.
2026-05-16 10:34 Ytreza: For the sake of branding, I think it would be good to select one main variant per board size and call it simply "Tafl 7x7", "Tafl 9x9", "Modern Hnefatafl 11x11"...
The idea would be to introduce the rules progressively: in 7x7 there is nothing special, in 9x9 we introduce the throne, in 11x11 the corners. We could have "Hnefatafl 11x11" without edge forts, and then "Modern Hnefatafl" with edge forts (Copenhagen).
Only these variants would appear when creating a new game, and clear rules would be available for them.
All the other variants would remain playable by aficionados, but to see them when creating a game one would need to click a special button. It is already the case now actually, only that the default selection of variants is very messy.
Details to be discussed of course, but I believe such a clear branding will be critical to promote the game.
I have to say, after 6 years without playing here, I struggle to find rules for a specific variant, and I am often confused by the names.
2026-05-16 08:01 Hagbard: For information:
It is true that the moment when a new user first discovers the website and wants to try a game is a critical one.
At present, a new user is greeted in the following way:
* as soon as an alias and password have been entered for the first time, two open invitations for two Market Hnefatafl 9x9 games are automatically created, and the user is immediately sent to his "My current games" page
* on the new player's "My current games" page there is a clear link to a page with beginner information:
https://aagenielsen.dk/begyndere.php
The link remains there until the new player has played ten games.
2026-05-15 21:30 Hagbard: Dimetr mentioned that some variant names may seem complicated, especially to new users.
In a way, the names are working titles that help me identify them.
Perhaps the names could be changed so that they look simpler while still providing the extra information, for example in this way:
2026-05-14 19:02 Hagbard: Because of earlier character code issues, you best find the games this way:
On
https://aagenielsen.dk/visallespil_soeg.php
search for 'Plantagenet'.
In the total list of games you'll also find the Paca-games.
2026-05-14 13:09 Hagbard: It's about character sets; I return about the matter later
2026-05-14 11:37 Plantagenet: Why did an old game between Раса and me disappear while some of our other games are still here?
2026-05-13 22:57 Ytreza: I think he should be banned. If he recreates an account with another alias, then he can be considered as a new person at least in terms of public image, and he will decide if he changes the behaviour of this new person. If not, the new person can be banned again. Also, it takes a lot of time to get a strong elo here because the games are long and player's availability is limited.
Titles could also be attributed only if the person provides a real name.
2026-05-13 20:22 Luizz: I fully agree with Odin. As a German specifically, these nazi paroles are absolutely not tolerable. I‘d at least silence him, as he does not seem to learn anything from the past. Banning would be possible, too, however, then he‘d probably just create a new account. Paca is an alt of him anyways I think. Just don’t give him any way of actively participating in the community, as I think such a person is just a negative influence in any way.
Beating Alex in the WTF in both games was one of the most satisfying achievement for me lol
2026-05-13 19:35 gulo: As far as I know, this is why Alex is banned from Fellhuhn’s app (and I heard something about a personal threat). His behaviour is a disgrace for the community. It was better to have him muted. Now I’m not sure I think that is sufficient.
2026-05-13 18:36 OdinHimself: Yes, I've said this before: Besides being mentally disordered, Alex is also a very "humble" person. I wonder how the game and we as a community still exist without having been exposed to this "banned" sunshine. Alex AI-tafl, I have news for you - you're not the only person who's white and have read books about pure race, swastikas, genetic breed etc. But I think you're the only one who's still dreaming about it. Wake up and do something meaningful insted of bla-blaing and exalting yourself. Have you lived in the Viking age? I doubt it. So how do you know what rules have had tafl back then, how vikings named the pieces and waht strategies and rules they used? You speak as if you were there and have created the game. King, konung, chieftain, jarl, who cares? They may have played with stones and named them after their enemies and friends, and should we do the same now? Every time you open your mouth we hear nazi sh.t. I'm sorry to all of you for using this word, but it's totally in place to describe Alex's actions. Why do you keep challenging us? We are a community of players, a family. We don't need bullies to show us how insignificant we are in their eyes. Everyone plays at the level they have developed and are capable of, we can't all be in the top 10 and mentally crush weaker players. Just as you think you are among the best and praise yourself, you are collapsing in the eyes of all of us precisely with these actions. Understand once and for all that fame is built with worthy deeds, selflessness, valor, honor, modesty and courage, all qualities that you do not possess. But none of them.
2026-05-13 18:12 Ytreza: @Alex - Because you're one of the strongest players, what you say has weight, and therefore should be beyond reproach. You want to promote Hnefatafl; I'm not sure insulting people is a good start.
For any game more popular than tafl, the federation would ban you permanently and remove your titles. I believe that what should be done unless you retract and apologize. What you said is simply unacceptable. I certainly don't want to play a game whose representatives are like you.
Also, some humility would not hurt. The fact that I'm able to beat you means you're probably not that strong ;)
2026-05-13 17:26 Hagbard: Well, I opened access for a week in order to have some topics discussed. Alex, I hope you’ll be able to keep things civil for that long...
2026-05-13 17:14 xerxes: @Ytreza has a good point. It is time this was brought to a halt.
2026-05-13 17:04 Hagbard: Scandinavia has an old saying: "One has to hear a lot before one's ears fall off"...
2026-05-13 15:01 Ytreza: How can the federation let Alex insult everyone with racist and intolerant words without consequences?
2026-05-13 10:15 Hagbard: Dmitrij, thank you for the text file!!
I got AI to translate it, and the translation is added to the rules page:
https://aagenielsen.dk/hnefatafl_descr_rules_translation.pdf
There is an inaccuracy in the text:
The Copenhagen variant was developed by me, Adam, and Millar as a team.
Millar and Adam are heading the WTF.
2026-05-13 09:31 Hagbard: Translation of the Russian texts:
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I wouldn’t be myself if I didn’t throw in my five rusty kopeks: Someone said exactly what I had expected to hear from Alex.)
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I think Lucho’s emotions are very subjective and lacking in specifics. I could go through every point in even greater detail, but there is no point in that. Because during all these years I have never truly been heard by anyone in the Hnefatafl community. Hnefatafl had an alternative path of development, if by today a new generation of players had emerged who could continue researching Hnefatafl manually. But by now I am left alone. The community is dead. And those who over the years should have listened to me and learned together with me have now stepped away and are no longer capable of learning. You have understood nothing during all these years. You never understood what was required of you when you were active players, so that the game today could develop correctly. Your ideas about Hnefatafl remain unchanged from 10–15 years ago. It would have been possible to protect the game from the influence of AI, but that moment has already passed.
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I could call things by their proper names and speak even more directly, but I will not do so because Nielsen asked us to behave politely. And because it would not change anything anyway. You, as keepers of the knowledge of Hnefatafl, lost your game and left nothing worthwhile behind for the next generation. Just as you failed to leave behind any actual next generation at all.
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So please spare us the empty pompous speeches and hot air, and say something more concrete about the current situation.
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@Alex, in private messages you completely confused my mind with your ideology. You said you would never participate in the development of AI. But now you say that you are developing AI... After that, I do not think you have the right to accuse anyone of lacking devotion to the spirit of Hnefatafl.
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Vyacheslav, I think you are one of the last people in this world who has the right to lecture me about rights or discuss my personality.
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I am not talking about your personality. I am saying that your actions do not match your words. Which means you cannot tell others how they should behave.
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Aage, can you say something more concrete? These are just general phrases about historicity.
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What do you mean?
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I would like to see a clearly written text from you. So that you define your position and explain exactly what you mean by each of your terms. Then we can have a discussion. Let us avoid slogans.
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I know about these sections of the website and I have read them. What exactly follows from the fact that you sent me those links? By the way, when newcomers visit the site they complain that they cannot find any detailed description of the rules anywhere.
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For example Oleg Smirnov. My participation in the creation of AI mainly consisted of explaining the rules to him in detail and without mistakes.
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I see you are avoiding the subject? You need to connect your slogan about historicity with my proposals and explain it. Regarding historical Hnefatafl, in connection with the new position I recently posted on the forum, I propose introducing a 50-move rule after which Black loses if there has been no capture. A similar rule exists in chess, although there it leads to a draw. In the application this draw rule has also been implemented. This is the only change I propose introducing into all variants of Hnefatafl, and it does not contradict historicity. But it would help avoid stagnant positions. There is also the idea of losing after losing half of one’s pieces, though perhaps we can do without that.
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First of all, it is better than nothing. And secondly, nothing prevents us from setting the timer to 40 moves, for example. I think this rule is necessary.
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This is important for games on the website too. More than once I have found myself in situations where a Copenhagen game dragged on for 200 moves or more, for example against Draganov.
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So does that mean you will add this rule?
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When people develop the game manually, they improve themselves in the process. When personal effort is invested in gaining knowledge, that knowledge has far greater value. But since people of that kind, who could physically dedicate themselves to Hnefatafl, simply do not exist in the world today, AI does it instead. A holy place never stays empty. This is the main reason why AI is bad. It has taken away creative labor by doing everything instead of worthy people. Another bad thing is that modern society is completely market-driven and parasitic, so this tool for studying the game will inevitably end up in the hands of opportunists and shopkeepers. But now nothing can be done, because worthy people capable of carrying this knowledge forward in the current era never appeared. That is now simply a fact.
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Hello everyone!
Indeed, the huge number of Hnefatafl variants is more of a weakness than a strength. New players do not know which variants they should play or which variants are balanced. Standardization is needed for the further development and popularization of the game.
I do not think a perfect 50/50 balance like in chess is achievable or even necessary. Let White have a slight advantage (though is there even such a variant besides Brandubh?), or let Black have a slight advantage. But only a slight one — then the game will remain interesting.
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So we see that Black is almost always much stronger.
And I am grateful to this website and to Aage for allowing us to experiment and strengthen White.
Otherwise Tablut 9×9 would already have become an archival variant.
We gave White the first move, but this did not lead to a serious balance change.
However, I think Tablut Gulo-Dimetr is quite playable.
Besides White moving first, it also has a throne friendly to White (which significantly strengthens White), and additionally Black is forbidden to pass through the throne.
Taking all three of these White advantages together, I think the game works.
At the same time we did not violate Linnaeus’ rules.
Perhaps the variant should simply be renamed ‘New Tablut 9×9’ instead of all these Gulo-Dimetr-W names, which may frighten new players.
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Next, 11×11 — I have always considered Lewis Cross a good balanced variant.
But now there seems to be some advantage for Black.
We could follow the same path — add a throne safe for White and forbid Black from passing through it (though the latter is perhaps unnecessary, since it is only a very minor strengthening of White, barely noticeable in 9×9 and even less so in 11×11).
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Next, 13×13 — I think Dimetr2 works well.
Correct me if I am wrong.
The point is that it is like Lewis Cross on a 13×13 board, except White has already made four moves and opened space for the king.
I think nothing needs changing in Dimetr2 for now.
Though the name should preferably be changed. All tournament variants should simply be called ‘Tournament’. For example: ‘Historical 13×13 Tournament’.
By the way, Dimetr1 will not work. Unlike on an 11×11 board, on a 13×13 board it is harder for the king to reach the edge. He must cross more squares, and there are too many black Vikings.
Therefore Lewis Cross does not work on a 13×13 board.
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Few people will play 15×15 except fans like Alex. For Historical 15×15 to work, you need a setup in which the king can very quickly get out into the field and begin attacking. Otherwise Black will intercept him. The king has too far to travel to reach the edge.
One can experiment with different setups, but I doubt 15×15 should be included in the WTF Tournament. The games would become extremely long.
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The new variants should simply be called ‘Tournament’.
For example:
instead of ‘Tablut 9×9 Gulo-Dimetr-W’ — ‘Tablut 9×9 Tournament’.
‘Lewis Cross 11×11 Tournament’ (with the throne safe for White).
‘Historical 13×13 Tournament’ (instead of Dimetr2, with no changes except the name).
Since in all historical versions White moves first, the ‘-w’ suffix can be removed from the names.
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I do not really know much about Copenhagen 11×11.
But Draganov and Alex have said that Black is significantly stronger.
From experience with historical tafl, one can say that White moving first has very little effect on balance.
Therefore I think simply giving White the first move in Copenhagen will not be enough.
I can suggest that you also add a rule that the empty throne is safe for White (but hostile to Black).
This rule is logical (why should the king’s fortress be dangerous for his own men?) and it strengthens White well.
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There is no point in changing the properties of the throne. AI play has shown that Historical Hnefatafl 11×11 works successfully. It is simply that the level of human players with White is far behind the level of AI. The only thing, as I repeat for the hundredth time, is that we must introduce a rule under which Black loses if there is no capture for 40 or 50 moves. That would avoid stagnant positions.
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Oleg is now preparing a 9×9 variant for AI. It will calculate all the possibilities for you.
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I have played Hnefatafl for one year, but I have worked in trade for twenty years. Hnefatafl can become professional only when it becomes commercial, when it reaches the masses, when sponsors and international offline tournaments appear. To achieve this, you need to sell it. But you cannot sell it because you do not have a product. You have a collection of many variants. You need one single standardized variant. For example the most popular Copenhagen version, which could evolve into Total or some other version. Then you need to develop a teaching methodology (books, journals, etc.). Then go to the chess schools in your city, arrange extracurricular classes for children, and teach according to one unified method and one unified variant. Hold tournaments and championships only for that single version.
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For now you are merely engaged in creative experiments, pouring from one cup into another. You will never spread the game beyond enthusiasts. And if you promote it the way Alex does, then it will never spread beyond eccentrics. Alex is interesting to listen to, but only until he begins promoting his own judgmental philosophy, which he should learn to keep to himself.
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Rus’ was founded by Vikings, but the Scandinavian language did not become dominant because both Rus’ and Byzantium were inhabited by Slavs, and for convenience trade was conducted in a Slavic language. In the Roman Empire the international language was Latin because the Romans paid more than anyone else. Today the international and most widespread language is English — the language of trade, career, and success. That is how the world has worked ever since the emergence of barter. If something has no practical use or profit, then it is merely art for a narrow circle during a passing trend.
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2026-05-13 07:30 Ytreza: i) there is no proof at the moment that black has the advantage. It might feel like it, but even between the strongest players, when looking at the archive, the balance is good. The AI playing white also manages to win 40% of the time even though it doesn't know forts yet.
ii) a win condition that requires to count the number of moves is utterly inelegant and impractical.
iii) if AI training stales, it's the problem of the AI and its developpers, not of the game. Ad-hoc rules like the fort are not easy to discover randomly by reinforcement. But stalling should not happen if draws (after 100 moves without capture) were penalised properly in training. The developpers might need to put more thoughts into their AI instead of applying a generic algorithm. Anyway, that shouldn't be the problem of the players.
iv) I have proposed in the big forum a way to speed up endgames by basically allowing black to claim the win when white is stuck.
v) it's now clear with the AI that nobody on this website, even the "GMs", are very good at the game. I struggle much more playing black against the AI that playing against e.g. Alex or Draganov.
2026-05-13 05:42 Waclaw: Твоя философия не жизнеспособная.
2026-05-13 05:41 Waclaw: Русь основали викинги, но язык скандинавов не стал доминирующим, так как, и в Руси, и в Византии жили славяне и торговля для удобства шла на славянском языке. В Римской Империи международным языком был латинский так как римляне платили больше всех. Сейчас международный и самый распространённый язык - это английский, это язык торговли, карьеры и успеха. Так устроен мир начиная с появления натурального обмена. Если что-то не несет практической пользы для выгоды, то это исключительно искусство для узкого круга лиц на период тренда.
2026-05-13 04:38 Waclaw: А пока вы занимаетесь просто творческими изысканиями. Переливая из одной чаши в другую. И не добьетесь успеха в распространении дальше, чем среди энтузиастов. А если агитировать, как Алекс, то вообще дальше фриков ничего не уйдёт. Алекса интересно слушать, но ровно до тех пор пока он не начинает продвигать свою оценочную философию, которую ему нужно научиться держать при себе.
2026-05-13 04:33 Waclaw: Я играю год в Хнефатафл, но я 20 лет занимаюсь торговлей. Хнефатафл может стать профессиональной только тогда, когда она станет коммерческой, когда она уйдет в массы, когда появятся спонсоры и международные офлайн турниры. Для этого нужно продать ее. Но вы не можете ее продать так как не имеете продукта. Вы имеете набор кучи вариантов. Вам нужен один единственный стандартизированный вариант. Например самый популярный Копенгаген, который может трансформироваться в Тотал или какую-то другую свою версию. Затем вам нужно разработать методологию обучения (книги, журнал и т.д.). Затем пойти в шахматные школы своего города, договориться об факультативе для детей и учить по единной методологии и единному варианту. Устраивать турниры и чемпионаты только по 1 версии.
2026-05-13 04:29 Alex Hnefatafl: Сейчас Олег готовит вариант 9×9 для ИИ. Он посчитает все варианты за вас.
2026-05-13 04:29 Alex Hnefatafl: Менять свойства трона не имеет смысла. Игра ИИ показала, что исторический Хнефатафл 11×11 успешно работает. Просто уровень игроков за белых очень сильно отстаёт от уровня ИИ. Единственное, повторю в сотый раз, надо ввести правило, по которому чёрные проиграют если не будет ни одного взятия фигур в течение 40 или 50 ходов. Чтобы избежать застойных позиций.
2026-05-13 00:43 Hagbard: Thank you, Dmitrij!!
The article is added to the rules page under Copenhagen:
Hnefatafl, description, rules, documents and historical sources in Russian (Dmitrij Tsvilenev).
https://aagenielsen.dk/hnefatafl_descr_rules_russian.pdf
2026-05-13 00:11 Dimetr: Hi Aage!
I sent you mail with my article about Hnefatafl rules.
Maybe you will post it, on site?
It's on russian.
But and maybe it will be possible to translate to English (I will send you word file too)
2026-05-12 23:47 Hagbard: Regarding Dimetr's note:
I think that for a beginner, Hnefatafl = Historical Hnefatafl.
And that a page for beginners must be written which clearly explains what that is.
2026-05-12 23:45 Dimetr: Про Копенгагенский 11*11 я ничего толком не знаю.
Но Draganov и Алекс высказывались что чёрные значительно сильнее.
По опыту исторического тафла, можно сказать, что первый ход белых очень мало влияет на баланс.
Поэтому, думаю что добавление первого хода белых в Копенгагенском будет недостаточно.
Могу предложить Вам (помимо первого хода белых) добавить правило, что пустой трон безопасен для белых (но враждебен для чёрных).
Это правило логично (почему крепость короля должна быть опасна для его людей?) и хорошо усиливает белых
2026-05-12 23:40 Dimetr: Новые варианты лучше назвать "Tournament".
Например -вместо "Tablut 9*9 Gulo-Dimetr-W" - "Tablut 9*9 Tournament".
- "Lewis Cross 11*11 Tournament" (трон безопасен для белых).
- "Historical 13*13 Tournament" (вместо Dimetr2, ничего не менять кроме названия).
Поскольку во всех исторических версиях мы играем с первым ходом белых, то "-w" можно из названий убрать.
2026-05-12 23:31 Dimetr: В 15*15 мало кто будет играть, кроме таких фанатов как Алекс. Чтобы Исторический 15*15 работал, нужна расстановка, в которой король сможет очень быстро выйти в поле и начать атаку. В любом другом случае чёрные его перехватят. Королю очень долго идти на край
Можно попробовать некоторые варианты расстановки, но вряд-ли 15*15 нужно вводить в WTF Tournament. Это будут очень длительные игры.
2026-05-12 23:24 Dimetr: Далее 13*13- я думаю, что Dimetr2 хорошо работает.
Поправьте меня, если я не прав.
Дело в том, что это как Lewis Cross на доске 13*13, но только белые уже сделали 4 хода и раскрыли пространство для короля.
Думаю, в Dimetr2 пока ничего менять не нужно.
Хотя желательно изменить название. Все турнирные варианты лучше назвать просто "Tournament". Например: "Historical 13*13 Tournament".
Кстати Dimetr 1 работать не будет. В отличие от поля 11*11 на поле 13*13 королю сложнее добраться до края. Нужно пройти больше клеток и чёрных викингов очень много.
Поэтому Lewis Cross на поле 13*13 не работает
2026-05-12 23:14 Dimetr: Далее 11*11 - Я всегда считал, что Lewis Cross - хороший, сбалансированный вариант.
Но сейчас видно некоторое преимущество чёрных.
Мы могли бы пойти по тому же пути - добавить безопасный для белых трон и запрет черным на проход сквозь трон (хотя последнее можно не добавлять, это совсем незначительное усиление белых, его и в 9*9 почти незаметно, а в 11*11 - тем более)
2026-05-12 23:07 Dimetr: Итак, мы видим что чёрные почти всегда намного сильнее.
И я благодарен этому сайту и Aage, что мы экспериментируем - усиливаем белых.
Иначе Tablut 9*9 стал бы уже архивным вариантом.
Мы дали первый ход белым, но это не привело к серьезному изменению баланса.
Однако, думаю что в Tablut Gulo-Dimetr вполне можно играть.
Там кроме первого хода белых, также дружественный для белых трон (что значительно усиливает белых), ещё и запрет на проход через трон для чёрных.
С учётом всех этих трёх усилений для белых, игра по-моему работает.
При этом мы не нарушали правил Линнея.
Может быть стоит переименовать вариант просто "New Tablut 9*9", вместо всех этих Gulo-Dimetr-W. Что может напугать новых игроков
2026-05-12 22:56 Dimetr: Всем привет!
Действительнотвеликое множество вариантов Хнефатафла - это скорее его слабость. Новые игроки не знают, в какие варианты следует играть, какие варианты являются сбалансированными. Нужна стандартизация для дальнейшего развития и популяризации игры.
Я думаю, что баланс 50/50 как в шахматах, не достижим и нам не нужен. Пусть будет незначительное преимущество у белых (хотя, есть ли такой вариант, в котором у белых есть преимущество, кроме брандуба?), либо у черных. Но незначительное, тогда будет интересно играть
2026-05-12 19:39 Alex Hnefatafl: Когда люди развивают игру вручную, они совершенствуются в процессе этого развития. Когда на получение знания затрачены личные усилия, это знание имеет гораздо большую ценность. Но поскольку людей такого плана, которые могли бы заняться Хнефатафлом физически не существует в этом мире в настоящее время, то вместо них это делает ИИ. Свято место пусто не бывает. В этом главная причина того, что ИИ это плохо. Он отобрал созидательный труд, сделав всё вместо достойных людей. Также плохо то, что современное общество насквозь рыночное и паразитическое, поэтому этот инструмент по изучению игры неизбежно окажется в руках проходимцев и лавочников. Но теперь ничего не сделать, потому что достойных людей, способных нести это знание в сегодняшнюю эпоху не проявилось. Это уже данность.
2026-05-12 19:15 Hagbard: Not right now. But fx. in the WTF tournament, it is absolutely possible that the umpires could have judged an extremely long game to end from that point of view
2026-05-12 19:10 Alex Hnefatafl: Это означает ты добавишь это правило?
2026-05-12 19:05 Hagbard: If there's no hope left but the slow surrounding, I would give up
2026-05-12 18:54 Alex Hnefatafl: Это важно и для игр на сайте тоже. Я не раз попадал в ситуацию, где игра затягивалась на 200 и более ходов при игре в Копенгаген с тем же Драгановым.
2026-05-12 18:44 Hagbard: It will be no problem for you to add in your AI -
2026-05-12 18:41 Alex Hnefatafl: Во-первых, это лучше, чем ничего. А во-вторых ничто не мешает установить таймер, например, в 40 ходов. Я думаю, что это правило необходимо.
2026-05-12 18:38 Hagbard: I do not think that such a 50-move rule is a problem formally.
Something similar has been implemented here before.
But in online games it is not very practical to have to make 50 moves in order to decide a game. Those 50 moves may take two months, and no players will want to wait for that -
2026-05-12 18:28 Alex Hnefatafl: Я вижу ты уходишь от темы разговора? Тебе нужно связать свой лозунг по поводу историчности с моими предложениями и обьяснить это. Касаемо исторического Хнефатафла в связи с недавно размещённой мной на форуме новой позицией я предлагаю ввести правило 50 ходов, по истечении которых чёрный проигрывает, если не будет ни одного взятия. Подобное правило есть в шахматах и заканчивается оно ничьёй. В приложении это правило с ничейным исходом также реализовано. Это единственное изменение, которое я предлагаю ввести в Хнефатафл во все варианты и оно не противоречит историчности. Зато поможет избежать застойных позиций. Ещё есть поражение при потере половины фигур, но можно и без него обойтись.
2026-05-12 18:21 Hagbard: Unfortunately only Fetlar is also in Russian, so he might need to autotranslate other rules into Russian.
2026-05-12 18:18 Alex Hnefatafl: Например тот же Олег Смирнов. Моё участие в создании ИИ в основном заключалось в том, чтобы детально и без ошибок объяснить ему правила.
2026-05-12 18:14 Hagbard: Which beginners were that?
2026-05-12 18:10 Alex Hnefatafl: Я знаю об этих разделах сайта и читал их. Что следует из того, что ты прислал мне эти ссылки? Кстати, когда новички заходят на сайт они жалуются что нигде не могут найти подробного детального описания правил на сайте.
2026-05-12 18:03 Hagbard: Yes, that is what I have tried to summarize, for example here:
https://aagenielsen.dk/tablut_summary.php
and here:
https://aagenielsen.dk/copenhagen_summary.php
2026-05-12 18:00 Alex Hnefatafl: Я бы хотел увидеть от вас чётко составленный текст. Чтобы вы обозначили свою позицию, сказали что конкретно вы имеете ввиду под каждым своим определением. Чтобы мы могли побеседовать. Давайте обойдёмся без лозунгов.
2026-05-12 17:57 Alex Hnefatafl: Что ты имеешь ввиду?
2026-05-12 17:55 Alex Hnefatafl: Оге, ты можешь сказать что-то более конкретное? Это просто общие фразы по поводу историчности.
2026-05-12 17:51 Waclaw: Я не говорю про твою личность. Я говорю, что ты не соответствуешь своему сказанному. А значит не можешь говорить кому и как себя вести.
2026-05-12 17:49 Hagbard: NB: Alex Hnefatafl is now communicating in a normal tone, and in return we others may also communicate in a normal tone...
Regarding development:
It should not be surprising that here on the site we place great importance on the historical foundation of Hnefatafl and are very reluctant to depart from it.
There are also experiments, but we keep clear track of what is historical and what is experimental.
Some of the experiments emerged during the search for the historical version.
2026-05-12 17:44 Alex Hnefatafl: Вячеслав, я думаю ты один из последних людей в этом мире, кто может мне заявлять о каких-то правах и вести обсуждения моей личности.
2026-05-12 17:30 OdinHimself: Alex, Bulgaria is full of know-it-alls like you. No one is stopping you from creating your own games. When you entered the game, you started spitting and insulting us. This hasn't changed as far as I can see. No one has condemned the game to death. Artificial intelligence is entering the world and you can't stop this process. Adapt.
2026-05-12 17:22 Waclaw: @Alex, ты в личных сообщениях запутал мне все мозги своей идеологией. Ты говорил , что никогда не будешь участвовать в развитии ИИ. А сейчас ты говоришь, что развиваешь ИИ... Мне кажется, что после этого ты не имеешь права обвинять кого-то в недостаточной приверженности духу Хнефатафла.
2026-05-12 17:19 Alex Hnefatafl: Поэтому будьте добры обойтись без пустых пафосных речей и пузырей из носа, а сказать что-то более конкретное по поводу сложившейся ситуации.
2026-05-12 16:50 Alex Hnefatafl: Я могу назвать вещи своими именами и сказать ещё конкретнее, но не буду это делать так как Нильсен сказал вести себя вежливо. И так как это всё равно ни на что не повлияет. Вы, как хранители знания о Хнефатафле проиграли свою партию и ничего толкового после себя следующему поколению не оставили. Ровно как и самого следующего поколения после себя не оставили.
2026-05-12 16:38 Alex Hnefatafl: Я думаю что эмоции Лучо очень субъективны и лишены конкретики. Я мог бы разобрать каждый пункт ещё более подробно, но в этом нет смысла. Так как все эти годы я никогда не был услышан никем из сообщества игроков. У Хнефатафла был альтернативный путь развития, если бы к сегодняшнему дню проявилось новое поколение игроков, которое могло бы дальше исследовать Хнефатафл вручную. Но я к сегодняшнему дню остался один. Сообщество мертво. А те, кто должны были все эти годы слушать меня и обучаться вместе со мной ныне отошли от дел и неспособны к обучению. Вы так ничего и не поняли за эти годы. Что от вас требовалось, когда вы были активны как игроки, чтобы сегодня игра развивалась правильно. А ваши представления о Хнефатафле остались без изменений такими же как 10-15 лет назад. Можно было сохранить игру от воздействия ИИ, но это уже произошло.
2026-05-12 16:21 Waclaw: Я не я, если не вставлю 5 ржавых копеек: Один сказал, то, что я расчитывал услышать от Алекса)
2026-05-12 16:10 OdinHimself: I'll break my silence. I believe that Hnefatafl has always been a game of challenge. It was created in harsh times by harsh people. The concept is what it is - the whites are pressed, almost doomed, with little chance of victory and survival. That is the beauty of the game. The doom. And the chance to escape it and win or to die heroically in battle and have your name written in a northern saga. That is the magic of Hnefatafl. The blacks on the other hand are confident, but also scared. It takes very little for the king to slip away. So they must be on their guard. Victory is not guaranteed, death lurks around the corner and flashes on the edge of the enemy's sword. If the experts want to make the game more competitive, let them invent their own game and leave Hnefatafl alone. Let it remain as it is, ancient, harsh and challenging.
2026-05-12 10:44 Hagbard: Short summary of the Russian texts:
Alex and Oleg Smirnov are working on AI for Hnefatafl and believe that some Copenhagen rules should be changed because AI training gets stuck in long stagnant endgames.
They propose several anti-stalemate rules, including:
- black loses after 50 moves without any capture,
- black loses after losing half of its pieces,
- white gets 10 moves to free a blocked king at the board edge.
They argue that more detailed rules are necessary to make Hnefatafl fairer and more suitable as a professional competitive game.
They also suggest adding a Historical Hnefatafl 15×15 variant with edge escape and Copenhagen-style throne/king rules.
2026-05-12 10:35 Hagbard: Just a translation of the Russian texts:
---
Right now Oleg Smirnov and I are actively working on the development of AI for Hnefatafl. Historical Hnefatafl 11×11 has already been added to Copenhagen.
Previously I always said that draws in Hnefatafl can and should be completely avoided, and I proposed introducing a move limit for the black side in certain situations.
At the moment this problem has become relevant again, because AI training for Copenhagen has reached a dead end due to incomplete rules (in my opinion). Black blocks the corners, and then both sides just shuffle around without progress. Long endgames are a frequent phenomenon in Copenhagen games.
Also, recently I sent you on the main forum a stalemate situation in Historical Hnefatafl that I discovered while playing against AI, and which can prolong the game indefinitely.
---
I believe that, in principle, a new universal rule should be introduced for all variants: black always loses if no capture occurs within 50 moves. This would help avoid stagnant positions and force black to sharpen the position in situations where previously they could simply stall for time.
I also believe that another mandatory rule should be introduced for all variants, which I wrote about earlier: black always loses if it loses half of its pieces. For 9×9 this means 8 pieces, for 11×11 it is 12 pieces, for 13×13 it is 16 pieces, and for 15×15 it is 20 pieces.
---
And one more rule for Copenhagen: in a situation where the main white piece is completely blocked at the edge of the board, white should be given 10 moves to free the King (Konungr). Whenever a black piece is captured, the timer is reset. Otherwise the game drags on indefinitely. Black is forced to capture all remaining white pieces, which is meaningless.
---
When the rules regulate every detail, the game can be made maximally fair. This is also extremely important in order to move Hnefatafl from the category of an amateur game into the category of a professional game.
---
This is far from everything. I know how to improve the game in many aspects. But first this issue must be discussed.
If it is difficult for Aage to introduce new algorithms on the website, this can be done manually.
There is also now the question of whether championships can continue in the current format at all, since everyone now has access to very strong AI.
And I also want to say that Historical Hnefatafl 15 should be added (in addition to Sea Battle 13 with white to move first).
On the 15×15 board, the main piece and the throne are exactly the same as in Copenhagen. But escape is to the edge. This variant needs to be tested. It should work well.
---
Oleg Smirnov will not officially make rule changes or add a new variant until it has been implemented here. There needs to be an authoritative source to rely on, so that such changes carry weight and may later find practical use.
---
2026-05-12 05:54 Alex Hnefatafl: Олег Смирнов не будет официально делать изменения в правилах или добавлять новый вариант до тех пор, пока это не будет реализовано здесь. Так как нужно опираться на авторитетный источник для того, чтобы такие изменения имели вес и могли найти себе применение в дальнейшем.
2026-05-12 05:14 Alex Hnefatafl: Это далеко не все. Я знаю как сделать игру лучше во многих аспектах. Но сначала надо обсудить этот вопрос. Если для Оге затруднительно вводить новые алгоритмы на сайт, это можно делать вручную. Также теперь стоит вопрос о проведении чемпионата в принципе в текущем формате, так как у всех есть доступ к очень сильному ИИ. И ещё хочу сказать, что нужно добавить исторический Хнефатафл 15. (помимо морского боя 13 с первым ходом белого). На 15 доске главная фигура и трон точно такие же как в Копенгагене. Но побег на край. Надо протестировать этот вариант. Он должен хорошо работать.
2026-05-11 22:28 Hagbard: Well, if you think about a very formal setting such as a chess tournament, then strict rules for every detail are important.
But in more relaxed games, such as at home with the family or here, it is asking a lot to keep track of the number of moves and similar things.
2026-05-11 22:18 Alex Hnefatafl: Регламентируют*
2026-05-11 22:17 Alex Hnefatafl: Когда правила регламентирую каждую деталь, можно сделать игру максимально честной. Также это крайне важно для того, чтобы перевести Хнефатафл из разряда любительской игры в разряд профессиональной.
2026-05-11 22:13 Hagbard: A small remark to the last point: If rest of the game is pointless, then the players can resign or else call it a draw.
2026-05-11 22:07 Alex Hnefatafl: И ещё одно правило для Копенгагена: в ситуации, когда главная фигура белых полностью блокирована у края доски, необходимо давать белым 10 ходов на освобождение Князя(Konungr). При взятии фигуры чёрных таймер сбрасывается. Иначе игра затягивается на неопределённый срок. Чёрным приходится ловить все оставшиеся фигуры белых, что бессмысленно.
2026-05-11 22:02 Alex Hnefatafl: Также я считаю, что необходимо ввести ещё одно обязательное правило для всех вариантов, о котором я писал раньше - чёрный всегда проигрывает, если теряет половину фигур. Для 9×9 это 8 фигур, для 11×11 это 12 фигур, для 13×13 это 16 фигур, для 15×15 это 20 фигур.
2026-05-11 21:24 Alex Hnefatafl: Сейчас мы с Олегом Смирновым активно занимаемся развитием ИИ по Хнефатафлу. К Копенгагену уже добавлен исторический Хнефатафл 11×11.Раньше я всегда говорил о том, что ничьих в Хнефатафле можно и нужно полностью избежать и предлагал ввести ограничение по количеству ходов для чёрных в некоторых ситуациях. На данный момент эта проблема вновь актуальна, поскольку из-за недоработанных правил (как я считаю) обучение ИИ игре в Копенгаген зашло в тупик. Чёрные перекрывают углы, а затем идёт топтание на месте. Затяжной эндшпиль это частое явление при играх в Копенгаген. Также недавно я прислал вам на большой форум патовую ситуацию при игре в исторический Хнефатафл, которую обнаружил при игре с ИИ и которая затянет игру на неограниченный срок. Я считаю что для всех вариантов в принципе надо ввести новое универсальное правило - чёрные всегда проигрывают, если в течение 50 ходов не происходит ни одного взятия фигуры. Это поможет избежать застойных позиций, и заставить чёрных идти на обострение позиции в ситуациях, когда раньше он мог просто тянуть время.
2026-05-07 13:13 Hagbard: Will there be Viking board games at the Tønsberg Vikingfestival August 6-9?
2026-05-05 09:10 Hagbard: Hilsen til forårssolen
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xX-ipGURDgQ
2026-04-28 12:32 Plantagenet: Why are my games in the international tournament of 2014 no longer visible?
2026-04-25 09:30 Hagbard: - and so you already did - it's activated
2026-04-25 09:26 Hagbard: It seems that you're not registered for the large forum. But it's open for registering
2026-04-25 08:41 Waclaw: I can't leave a comment.
2026-04-25 08:41 Waclaw: You have specified an incorrect username. Please check your username and try again. If you continue to have problems please contact the Board Administrator.
2026-04-25 08:33 Hagbard: Yes a photo can be uploaded in the large forum as attachment to a message
2026-04-25 07:02 Waclaw: Looping doesn't work at 10 speed😅
2026-04-25 03:16 Waclaw: I repeated it two more times))) I wish I could copy it, but I took a screenshot of the sequence. Can you tell me how to upload a photo?
2026-04-25 02:47 Waclaw: I accidentally found a sequence of moves for Black that loops the AI. There are 24 pairs of moves in total. I repeated it three times with the same effect. This AI is not programmed to make an unfavorable move. However, such a move would allow it to continue playing.
2026-04-24 13:57 Draganov: Maybe we can organize a match Human vs AI like Kasparov vs Deep Blue in 1997. We live in the last days of the romantic period of the tafl when the players played by themselves and were creative over the board.
2026-04-24 13:55 Draganov: @All, sovaz1997 has created the strongest tafl engine. Read more info about it in the big forum and give it a try. The engine plays much stronger with the whites (around 2000 rating) while with the blacks it plays at about 1600 based on my evaluation.
https://aagenielsen.dk/hnefataflforum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=1932#p1932
2026-04-24 12:43 Hagbard: New in gallery: Easter at the Land of Legends.
2026-04-23 19:34 Hagbard: That I can not explain -
2026-04-23 19:29 Luizz: I joined a new game against Chrom, and after accepting the game it ended right away
2026-04-23 12:32 Luizz: Works for him now! Thanks
2026-04-23 11:52 Hagbard: Please tell this player to try again
2026-04-23 01:50 Hagbard: Thank you for telling. It's an unfortunate consequence of security measures and can be fixed. But I need to know his IP-address then
2026-04-22 16:53 Luizz: A player i met cant access the website and always gets 403 forbidden errors. Is this a known issue? What could be the cause?
2026-04-17 09:46 Hagbard: removed
2026-04-17 05:53 Waclaw: I mistakenly started the Saami Tablut w. tournament. How can I cancel it?