2010-04-06 21:30:44 Hjuke: Question: Does white have a really fair game against a skilled opponent? Is there a good strategy for white to win?2010-04-15 18:28:40 Darkont: add in to online version 4 side king for win.
2010-04-15 19:41:54 Nielsen: 4 side capture of the king will be added as an option to the online version, it could take a week or two before it is ready.
2010-04-22 13:11:31 Darkont: To Nielsen - thanks for you quick reaction. Question, why in to rules attackers side moves first, in to game first moves king side?
2010-04-22 16:19:55 Nielsen: To Darkont - The reason is the 2-side king kill game. In that game it is hard to play the defenders against a skilled human opponent. And it appears to be even impossible to win with initial ordering 1 if the attackers move first and do the first 12 moves a certain way. The computer does not use the trick but with a human opponent the defenders hit the wall. If however the defenders move first they have a better chance and with initial ordering 2 even more. But for the 4-side king kill game the defenders' game is easier and attackers can move first like the rules say. At some time the program will be modified to do this for the 4-side king kill game though it will complicate the program. If anyone can demonstrate that the defenders also win the 2-side king kill game when attackers begin, the program can be modified for this also.
2010-04-22 18:18:15 Darkont: I say about 4-side version. this variant more difficult, but more historical.
2010-04-23 23:17:29 Nielsen: It is now an option on the invitation whether white or black moves first.
2010-04-24 13:21:57 Nielsen: Still an open riddle: Can someone find a good way for the defenders to win against a very skilled human opponent in this game: 11x11 board, initial ordering 1 king killed from 2 sides attackers move first
2010-05-03 22:14:42 Adam: I think the thing that makes it almost impossible for the king to win in this (excellent) online hnefatafl is the hostile corners, allowing the king to be taken against the corner square. Personally I find the king being taken by two players makes the game far too hard for the king for a balanced game, and with the hostile corners it seems overly hard on the king.
2010-05-03 22:32:57 Adam: Its says in the initial ordering note: "Ordering 1 has the characteristic, that if black begins, black can block the game by occupying the squares B2, B10, J2 and J10 in the first four moves." But thats not true if white responds with pieces in for example: G7(to)G10 and F7(to)J7. This is an extension of an aggressive opening sacrifice move invented by a friend of mine and I named it Millar's Gambit after him. Its a powerful opening for white.
2010-05-10 23:10:19 Nielsen: The Shetland rules should function now in the Hnefatafl over the internet.
2010-05-11 16:58:38 leidulfr: Adam, I can't understand your gambit. Could you explain it again? Thank you.
2010-05-13 20:57:37 Adam: to leidulfr: The Millar Gambit is whenever white opens by offering a sacrifice by advancing from E5 E7 G5 or G7 outwards to the rows of black pieces, eg E5 moves to B5 or E2. Black can usually respond by taking the piece, (Gambit accepted, A4 to B4 or D1 to D2 respectively) or by ignoring it and continuing to build their fence (Gambit declined). Its basically tossing a grenade into the attackers ranks and it makes effective barrier building very difficult for them.
2010-05-14 01:13:20 leidulfr: to Adam: Could you give a concrete example, please?
2010-05-14 06:31:00 Adam: to leidulfr: In essence its an opening move for white, regardless for how black opens, providing the move is attacking one of blacks men on F2, F10, B6, J6. So if whites first move can be E5 to E2, thats the Gambit as long as black still has a man on F2. See how it affects black. Its really no more complex than that.
2010-05-16 01:55:35 leidulfr: Thank you Adam, I'll think it over.
2010-05-17 17:17:38 Nielsen: On the various rulesets - After many test games here it seems that when two skilled players (considering the number of games I lost this would not include myself...) - the Scandinavian variant (2-side king kill) is the hardest to play for white. The Millar gambit is a must if white is to have a chance, and it also helps to let white begin and to start with ordering 2 (white men closer to corners). The "Outside Scandinavia" variant (4-side king kill) is less difficult to white and the Shetland variant even more. The 4-side king kill still does not make the game all too unbalanced in favour of white as white may well loose. As for the Ashton center square I don't know if it helps white or black more or maybe both.
2010-05-18 18:49:59 Nielsen: Thanks to Crust for drawing my attention to the hammer and anvil rule on the Shetland island Unst. This rule is now an option.
2010-05-26 19:52:05 crust: To all hnefatafl players! The world championship of hnefatafl will be held on Saturday 31st July 2010 on the island of Fetlar in Shetland, UK. It will be a quickplay tournament with 10 seconds per move. Winner gets title of "Hnefatafl Grand Master"
2010-06-30 22:32:11 crust: Thank you Mr. Nielsen for this amazing website.
2010-08-03 11:53:50 crust: I'm still world champion. All too easy... ;-)
2010-08-05 02:55:35 Claudio: Parabens pelo site adoro Tablut.....sou do Brasil
2010-08-14 14:27:04 Adam: Hello forum. I think its time to start off another forum discusion. I've been playing Hjuke at the 9x9 trebeta rules, and must admit im undecided as to the rule set being balanced or not. One thing I would say though, is that in board games we find a simple model of the world, and so any rule ought to correspond with something in the reality that the game represents. The pieces represent soldiers or military units clearly enough. The throne is a starting point, affording varying degrees of castle-like protection according to rule set. the corners represent escape routes, or friendly safehavens. As safe havens it makes sense that they would be hostile only to attackers. But I would have expected this to be the case in all variants. My personal conclusion is that rule variations are useful to handicap stronger players in uneven matches, much as in the japanese game Go. To have so many rule variants otherwise makes the tafl game family unweildy and somehow unsatisfying. I find this part
2010-08-14 14:31:28 adam: ran out of space! ...I find this particularly the case with alterations to the kings squares rules. Altering rules according to need to handicap makes the changes more meaningful. Id like to hear what other players think about this interesting and onging problem.
2010-09-09 16:20:12 Nielsen: I think the various rule details are an effective way to adjust handicaps in uneven matches. But besides this, there is also the situation where you often play against the same opponent and maybe reach a point where you think you have "solved the game - my best strategy is this, your best strategy is that and then the game goes like this". In such a case you can bring new variety into the game by changing the board size or change among more rule variants.
2010-09-09 21:44:51 Nielsen: And also: when a rules set is balanced on one board size, the same rules set is not necessarily equally balanced on another board size.
2010-09-12 11:39:33 Adam: All good points.For me the 11x11 board feels like an open ended strategy game, while the 7x7 feels like a child's puzzle (like noughts and crosses) and the 9x9 somewhere in between, like a training board. The 19x19 alea evangelii is absurdly easy for the multitude of attackers using basic hnefatafl rules. the 13x13 I've not tried. Perhaps the discrepancies in starting positions indicate that the game started with a variety of tactical troop arrangements that players could choose from before beginning? I still have a problem with altering the taking rules for the corners and board edge, simply because the end game becomes so totally different, demanding a different way of thinking and whole new strategies that would be useless with other corner rules. I suggest people try playing two games simultaneously with different corner rules. It is remarkably difficult as the brain thinks its playing the same game, yet the corner dynamics are so different that one is forced to switch back and fo
2010-09-12 11:40:15 Adam: ...rth between two very different gaming styles. It makes it hard to imagine mastering the game like that, they are different games. it would be easier to adjust the brain if the corners appeared differently with the rule variations (placing white pieces on them for example to indicate friendliness to whites.) But that is exactly what I mean by it becoming 'unwieldy' and inelegant. the decorations on the saami board point to this idea, perhaps making it clear which squares are friendly to who.
2010-09-13 13:12:16 crust: Fascinating stuff. It does seem to me that Fetlar rules (with the strongest King) give the most balanced play for experienced players, but beginners often find that white wins more often than black. If so, I would prefer to redress the balance by giving black some help with basic strategy, rather than changing the rules to handicap white by weakening the King. Of course, there's no substitute for practice and experience...
2010-09-15 22:05:01 Nielsen: Though it is possible to experiment freely with combinations of rules details with the options window, just a couple of rule sets were used in real by the players on this site. A few players chose the "Scandinavian" rules set, could be because it is the default choice. Two players chose the Fetlar rules set, could be because the Fetlar rule is necessary in a masters' game. One player experimented with the Trebeta rule and the Unst rule. All rest of the players chose the "Outside Scandinavia" rules set. Perhaps the rules sets could be seen as stages from beginner to master: beginners - Scandinavian rules, experienced players - Outside Scandinavia rules, masters - Fetlar rules, beyond masters - Unst rules! This is all for the 11x11 board. On the 9x9 board it seems in my opinion that the Trebeta rule becomes a necessity for white to balance black, the king being captured from two sides, but I need more test games to try it out. The first four rule sets are all used in real by hnefataf
2010-09-15 22:06:19 Nielsen: ... The first four rule sets are all used in real by hnefatafl player groups somewhere in the world. As for Trebeta there's more to it as the Trebeta Living History group seems to capture the king from two sides also in center.
2010-09-16 19:09:56 Niding: Very interesting to find other people playing hnefatafl. In my (limited) experience the following rules give a balanced game. 1. The king is weaponless. 2. The king wins when he reaches the edge, not just the corner. 3. No special rules for any squares, except perhaps the throne (have only tried the variant then only the king can pass the throne). 4. The king has to be surrounded on four sides (or three plus the throne). I am very interested in trying the rules out.
2010-09-27 16:48:44 Pedro: What happen if white build a castle at the firs stage of the game?.He only needs 8 soldiers on closed formation and two squares in the centre of tis formation.One square for the king and the other for the next move.The king repit his moves and it isn´t imposible to captured any soldier.Is that draw?
2010-09-27 16:56:20 Pedro: I have another case.The king attacks one corner and a defender stopped him, suddenly the king attacks other corner and the same defender stoped his way too.White and black repits this moves.Is that draw?
2010-09-29 16:38:13 Adam: as in chess three repeat moves means a draw. The forced draw is a very important factor in hnefetafl, giving white a chance at breaking blacks defence if black decides to divert forces to preventing a forced draw. There are a variety of castles white can build, one with as little as four men plus king on the board edge. The simplest is a two move opening E5 to D5, followed by E6 to E4 if allowed by white. Then the cowardly king can shuffle back and forth, forcing a draw.
2010-09-30 17:41:08 Pedro: Thanks Adam, I understand your explication. Do you have any book to explain strategy of this game?
2010-09-30 18:55:35 crust: Pedro - I am writing it! If you want a preview, e-mail me at anomalocharis@hotmail.com
2010-10-01 22:09:50 Adam: Pedro - I suspect Crust's book will be the first dedicated to the game. Meanwhile, I would say that this website is a great place to discuss tactics. Strategy varies somewhat from rule set to rule set, though there are plenty of common factors. Just post up any specific questions or strategy ideas. : )
2010-10-31 12:31:41 Adam: to Pedro: Regarding the king and the corner, you will find there are very different game dynamics according to the rules governing the board edge. Put simply, if the king is allowed to be captured at the board edge, then he can suddenly be captured with two players using the corner as a third man (providing the corners are set to be hostile to white pieces). If the board edge is not hostile, he is safe standing next to the corner, unless of course the rules allow king capture with two men, and the corners are hostile to white. This is exactly the point I raised in my thread dated 2010.08.14. as each variant requires very different strategy.
2010-11-14 16:32:51 Pedro: Crust ,i repit my ask about the attack on the corner.I have this position whit Adam, but his king was not killed.Could you explain to me what happens, thanks.
2010-11-14 17:53:12 crust: Dear pedro - sorry I lost chat window again. It's all about the differrence between Edge Rule 1 and Edge rule 2. If you don't specify any particular rule variations, you get Edge rule 1, which means the king can be captured at the edge of the board by 3 enemy pieces, or by two enemy pieces when he is right next to the corner square (the corner square then acts as the third enemy piece for this purpose). These are the rules we were playing with. However, when you were playing adam you must have either specified edge Rule 2 in the options, or "Fetlar Rules" which has the same effect: the King can not be captured at the edge of the board, and therefore he would also be safe from attack by two pieces when standing next to the corner. I'm sorry if I caught you out - I tried to warn you by chat message, but maybe it had already stopped working... Just remember to check which edge rule the game has - it is stated just next to the board. I hope that helps! hasta luego, crust
2010-11-14 19:20:29 Adam: handy hint. When i'm playing i always have a second window open showing the rule variation definitions. Its hard to remember all the details otherwise. Maybe Aage could make it so that the appropriate rule definitions appear in the game window (it already says which rules you are playing with, but the one line definition would help too, if there is space)
2010-11-14 19:49:44 Nielsen: I will look into the suggestion of Adam. Of all the possible combinations of variants, the players here have for months used only two: the king to be captured from 4 sides and can be (edge rule 1) or cannot be (edge rule 2) captured on the edge.
2010-11-15 13:14:49 Pedro: Thanks dear friends of hnefatafl, I understand .I think is preferable that the white king could be captured by only two soldiers near the corner like my game whith Crust.The game is more interestring and difficult .
2010-11-21 12:28:48 crust: To Aage - I like the way you've simplified the options down to the two basic favourites. Much less confusing.
2010-11-21 14:25:20 crust: To Aage. I just had a proper game - it's totally brilliant - the grid references and the moves list are really good improvements. Now I can keep a record of interesting games, and maybe learn something. A great help to understanding tactics and strategy.
2010-11-22 15:33:33 Nielsen: It seems that by combined forces the users here have pinned down the Hnefatafl variant which works really well: the Fetlar game with or without king capture on the board edge. This was not at all obvious half a year ago, at least not to me. I've had a countless number of matches here with opponents by these rules, and the matches have been challenging no matter whether playing the white or black side. It looks like the other variants are more for further experimenting and for game researchers. Yet for curious and searching souls it could be left to explore the 9x9 board also. Many thanks to all who till now participated in exploring this ancient game!
2010-12-02 08:56:08 Roderich: Hello there, can someone tell me which exact mode of playing (2-side, 4-side kill, etc.) is actually chosen for the championship and/or tournaments? I'm lucky to have found this site, well done! Greetings from Germany
2010-12-02 15:45:48 crust: Hello Roderich. The World Championship is 4-side kill hnefatafl using the "Fetlar" rules, that is, the king cannot be killed at the edge of the board. I used these rules also for the tournament in Yorkshire. This version of the rules has the strongest white king - all the other versions limit the white king's powers in some way. I should also mention that the World Championship is a quickplay contest, with a maximum time of ten seconds per move. This makes the games very exciting, as you have to rely on instinct (and practice) with no time to analyse individual positions. And of course you make mistakes because you're in a hurry. There are plans for a tournament in Germany - I don't know which rule set they will use, but it will probably be the same (fetlar) set. I look forward to playing you some time, all the best, crust
2010-12-02 16:02:50 Roderich: @ crust: Thank for your quick answer! I really would like to play a hnefatafl tournament some time, maybe I should watch out if there's something going on near here... can you maybe give more details about this one in Germany you told of? I'm sure we'll meet sometimes, I visit this website almost every day to practice for I'm quite a beginner. Greetings, Roderich
2010-12-21 23:11:07 crust: Happy Crustmas to all hnefatafl players. Best wishes for 2012, I hope we meet up at a tournament somewhere!
2010-12-23 11:12:44 Pedro: Happy Christmas Crust and every body of hnefatafl
2010-12-28 12:31:51 Nielsen: A Happy New Year 2011 to all users of this site and hope for many good games in the new year!
2011-01-15 18:57:23 Roderich: @ Nielsen: Ah, and if at any time you need more translations in German, just tell me.
2011-02-10 17:50:45 Hjuke: I have tried a number of games on the 9x9 board recently. These games seem to run much like the 11x11 board, only quicker. On 9x9 one meets the dangerous lines, the corner fight etc., just like we know it from 11x11.
2011-02-11 16:30:00 Nielsen: I have looked through this thread and have a couple of follow ups. Niding mentions 16.9.2010 a variant with a weaponless king, which should function well and balanced. The rules look like the medieval Hnefatafl descendants Ard-Ri (Scot), Tawl-Bwrdd (Welsh) and Alea Evangelii (Saxon). The reason why I did not implement this rules variant, is that this site concentrates on the original *Viking game*. I guess it is ok for a medieval king to be a very noble, old man with not enough physical strength to lift a sword. Close to the situation in chess, where the king is the weakest piece on board next after the peasants. As for the Viking king, however, he would never see a battle against a hostile enemy flock, as Hnefatafl simulates, because such a Viking king would not survive a day among his own men!
2011-02-12 23:47:35 crust: to Aage: what's going on with the computer's game ratings? each time it loses, its rating goes UP by about 30 points!!
2011-02-13 10:57:08 Aage: To crust: a bug sneaked in yesterday, it's corrected now; thanks for telling.
2011-02-13 12:56:04 crust: to Aage: that's a relief. I thought maybe the Machines were taking over, like in Terminator
2011-02-13 14:42:45 HAL: I know I've made some very poor decisions recently, but I can give you my complete assurance that my work will be back to normal. I've still got the greatest enthusiasm and confidence in the mission.
2011-02-13 16:20:54 crust: to HAL: just open the pod-bay doors, wise guy, or I'm going to take an axe to your processors and give you a re-programming you will never forget!
2011-02-16 18:12:27 crust: Does white ALWAYS win in the 9 x 9 version? Has anyobody won a 9 x 9 game, playing as black, against a decent opponent?
2011-02-18 06:58:09 Hjuke: I lost a number of games on the 9x9 as black and won none. If noone can find a way to win as 9x9 black, it leads to a conclusion: then the 9x9 king cannot be a 4-side capture king but must be 2-side capturable.
2011-02-18 19:17:53 MaC: I started playing Hnefertafl long time ago on a 9x9 field with a 4 Side king capture rule, but without a draw. So white has to escape anyhow. In that case the rules are leveled equal to each side.
2011-02-19 12:37:46 crust: To MaC: you may be right, but I think I can prove to you that white always wins 9 x 9 with 4-side capture. Will you accept the challenge?
2011-03-03 20:18:49 Hjuke: Doing test games on the 9x9 board. So far it looks like the Scandinavian museum rules (2-side king capture) are precisely targeting this board.
2011-06-17 14:19:34 Nielsen: The search machine statistics tells how this game has been spelled with any incredible combination of letters. A few examples are: hnafletafle, hnafeltafl, hefentafl, hemftalafl, hrfanatafel, hnefatl, hnfafl, hfenatl and hftanafl! All these strange words were forwarded to this page.
2011-06-17 17:27:23 crust: could be useful in scrabble : )
2011-07-21 10:35:01 crust: I just heard from Shetland that the world championship has been CANCELLED. : (
2011-07-22 22:00:39 Adam: @crust. Thats sad news. It had been thinking of suggesting Aage some sort of online championship. We have the ratings which are great, but it might be stir up some gaming interest and be fun to have an annual play off of some kind on this website?
2011-07-23 00:02:05 Aage: @Adam: Good idea, it's ok with me. The Fetlar Hnefatafl home page has not mentioned a cancelling yet, however. Perhaps they might find someone else to head the championships this year. In the unlucky situation that they shouldn't succeed with this, we could have an "unofficial tournament" here. Some details would not be the same, most important it is very difficult to properly simulate the quickplay, so I guess we would stick to the usual 5 minutes timeout. Besides this, it would certainly be possible.
2011-07-23 10:53:59 Aage: Maybe done something like this?: Rules must be the Fetlar rules. Every player plays one white and one black game against all other players (or at least against all who could win the competition). Would it be enough to do these games for 14 days, fx. August 7th-21st? How do the Shetlanders count points? 1 for won, 0 for lost and 0.5 for a draw? Could be fun if some of the Russians, Estonians, varyags, Vikings and Adam's and Tim's medieval warriors would join.
2011-07-23 13:55:39 Adam: Sounds great!
2011-07-25 09:56:47 Aage: The Shetland Times has an events list "What's On in Shetland - August 2011 + on". Above the list is written "These details are subject to change or cancellation without prior notification. Check with organisers if unsure." But as of today the Fetlar Hall event is still on the list.
2011-07-25 16:36:37 Aage: Tim Millar made me aware that a cancellation is actually announced at the top of the Fetlar championships home page, sorry I overlooked that. This means that it makes sense to go ahead with our unofficial tournament. And nothing much to wait for either. It could as well run already August 1st - 15th. The games can of course be done at any time of the day, but maybe we should encourage participants to be especially aware from 17 UTC and onwards, because this would be 18 o'clock in Britain and Spain, 19 o'clock in Germany and Scandinavia, and 20 and 21 o'clock in Eastern Europe. And morning in USA.
2011-07-27 17:41:35 Aage: Maybe it'd be an idea to loosen up the rule of two games per opponent? If I have ten games against crust, fx., surely nine are lost and with good luck maybe one is won. With still one point to split, that would be 0.9 for crust and 0.1 for myself. This way it is less important if you have a lot of luck in exactly two games.
2011-07-28 20:05:38 crust: I think it's ok to stick to 2 games per opponent - that's how it is done at a tournament, anyway. We are more likely to have problems because players become unavailable. In other words, people will start the tournament, play a few opponents, and then disappear. I hope that won't happen...
2011-07-28 20:30:06 Aage: I'd say they're welcome to play a few tournament matches for the fun of it - when the score is calculated these points are not included.
2011-07-29 11:06:01 Aage: The postfix "(tourn.)" seen in the rating list is added automatically for matches played from the tournament page.
2011-07-29 23:29:50 crust: to adam and hagbard: I greatly enjoyed watching your matches on replay. You are both as cunning as weasels! I am looking forward to trying to out-weasel you both....
2011-08-04 23:02:58 crust: congratulations to Jonas and Adam on their elegant demonstrations of the art of the hnefatafl draw fort. Beautiful games!
2011-08-05 00:01:58 crust: just watching tournament results coming in, it strikes me that these fetlar rules are quite well balanced; there is roughly an equal number of white victories, black victories, and a couple of draws.
2011-08-05 20:13:53 Adam: @crust: some really good hnefetafl being played. The game archive from the tournament will be a valuable tool for us all to study and improve our game.
2011-08-05 21:18:12 Roderich: to crust – Good game anyway, and in case you haven't got the message: I'm sorry for your dog. Greetings
2011-08-05 21:29:58 crust: to roderich: thanks, and greetings to you. I hope you are going to play in the tournament!
2011-08-06 23:55:18 crust: Scores so far in the tournament: Hagbard 4 points Adam 4 points Crust 4 points Shaunyman 2 points Jonas 1 point Hugues 0 points There are many matches still to play, and more players may join in at any time.
2011-08-09 22:32:22 Adam: regarding rule-set game balance: 7 black wins vs 6 white wins and two draws. Doesn't get more balanced than that.
2011-08-11 14:37:19 crust: To Adam: Thank you for an epic game! One of the longest, + easily as tough as any chess match.
2011-08-11 14:41:25 crust: To Aage: Thanks for making this tournament possible! I would like to propose that if there is not a clear winner on points, there should be a final round between the two highest scorers. Then we could animate it and put it on youtube. Because, frankly, the hnefatafl you can see on youtube is rubbish, no offence
2011-08-11 19:33:32 crust: re: tournament. MATCHES STILL TO BE PLAYED: Hagbard v Shaunyman Hugues v Crust Shaunyman v Hugues Crust v Shaunyman Hugues v Hagbard Adam v Shaunyman Jonas v Hugues
2011-08-12 13:05:45 Aage: To crust: if this round results in a shared no. 1, we'll take a second round until last man standing, as in football. I tested your youtube idea, and it can be done.
2011-08-12 13:33:06 crust: To aage: brilliant! To Roderich: tough game! well done. To Tafl Gild: Where ARE you guys?
2011-08-14 08:16:08 Hagbard: To Pedro: I saw you visited this site yesterday - you should join the tournament!
2011-08-14 20:51:08 crust: we already played this way round - I need to play you as black!
2011-08-14 20:51:57 Roderich: @ crust: ups, sorry... if you have time, we play the right one after that
2011-08-14 20:52:38 crust: ok
2011-08-15 14:53:22 Roderich: @ crust: If we have the game saved, let's play it until the end when see each other one day
2011-08-15 14:55:48 crust: to Roderich - i would like that!
2011-08-15 21:19:27 crust: Tournament update: These are the scores so far: (correct me if I'm wrong) Crust 7.5 points (not counting glitched game) Adam 5.5 points (unless we are disregarding Hugues' games, in which case, Adam has 3.5 points and would be in third place) Hagbard 4.5 points Roderich 3 points Jonas 2.5 points Shaunyman 2 points Hugues 0 points Roderich, crust, Hagbard, Jonas and Adam have all played each other twice
2011-08-16 12:00:43 Aage: The tournament completed - a lot of thanks for taking part and making this an event with a lot of fun and fine games, and congratulations to crust for the win! I included all points in the score list, like crust suggested, even if a few played only a couple of games, because it does not change the result. Before this competition I sent invitations to a number of reenactment groups and had hoped to meet some tough warriors here from the real battle fields. But maybe bravery with sword and shield is one thing and bravery at the Hnefatafl board quite another, or perhaps it will be another time... (that is, could be that Adam is one of the tough warriors -). A selection of eight of the games is posted as animations on Youtube.
2011-08-16 14:35:49 Roderich: @ crust: Congratulations crust!!! Although no other thing I'd expected ... :)
2011-08-16 17:32:15 Adam: Congratulations Tim. Well earned. Lets hope we can all keep the game activity levels up. I think everyones game has improved visibly through this tournament. Great fun, thanks for hosting Aage, and thanks for archiving the tournament.
2011-08-17 00:46:59 crust: Thank you for your kind words and good sportsmanship! I would like to add my thanks to Aage for all his hard work, making this tournament possible, and congratulations to ALL the participants on the amazingly high standard of hnefatafl we have seen here. I propose that we (the tournament players) form the nucleus of a new international hnefatafl society, to bring this incredible game to a wider public. Any thoughts?
2011-08-17 09:14:24 Roderich: to crust: I'm on board, captain! ;) I've already toyed with the idea of founding a tafl club in my town, but I think it's really hard to find enough people in a smaller place like Rostock. Playing over the internet seems to be the perfect solution for the moment. Maybe we could add something like a well-arranged forum where there can be discussed strategies and questions from beginners with more detail. Greetings and happy week to everyone. Chris
2011-08-17 22:27:35 Adam: I think forming an international hneftafl society is a great idea. Count me in. Seems to me the first job is agreeing collectively on this rule set thing. Not throwing out other rule sets, but agreeing on international tournament rules. (no prizes for guessing I'm a fan of the fetlar rules.) Rule agreement enabled football to take off, and I think its what is holding this game back. Of course we wouldnt be saying 'this is how the rules definitely were in viking times', but rather that they seem to be the ones that make the reconstructed game most playable.
2011-08-18 18:03:34 Beadle: Newbie here in NY state. I also think some kind of International Hnefatafl Society is a good idea. I recently discovered this game in the form of the 9x9 "Tablut". I like the 11x11 variant more. I was initially discouraged by the difficulty of playing as black, but looking at the tournament results, it actually looks more balanced that I had thought. I just need to improve my strategy, it seems. This game deserves a comeback.
2011-08-18 18:25:53 Aage: A structured forum is added, which could be useful for some more structured discussions about strategy, rules etc. The structured forum could be a supplement to the present, simple forum? The advantage of this simple forum is that any message is immediately and easily seen on the page, whereas messages in the complex forum more hide in the structure. The complex forum can do many things, however, fx. polls. Maybe Adam could create a poll for a voting about international Hnefatafl tournament rules?
2011-08-19 17:59:26 Beadle: I looked at the new forum, and I like it. I do have a suggestion though. Most web forums have a "misc" or "other" sub-forum. Perhaps one of those would be good. It could be used for, perhaps, showing off homemade game sets, linking relevant news stories, and so on. (To prevent it from becoming chaotic, the "Misc" sub-forum should be required to relate in some way to Hnefatafl, or other Tafl games.) This is just a casual suggestion, not a criticism.
2011-08-19 23:46:36 Hagbard: Update on the Fetlar rule-set balance from the tournament: 5 players (crust, Adam, Hagbard, Roderich and Jonas) completed all 20 games against each other, with 8 white wins, 6 black wins and 6 draws. Still a balanced result. As the Fetlar appears to be best balanced rules for the 4-sides king capture game (for strong players that is), it would be interesting to also clarify the 2-sides king capture game. For the 2-sides game to have a chance of balance, the king must win on the board edge. The 2-sides game could very well turn out to be far from as well balanced as the Fetlar game, but it would be interesting to have this verified with a good number of test games.
2011-08-20 00:14:23 sea slug: to Aage: how about a tournament of 9 x 9 hnefatafl some time? We could use the 2-side capture, escape-to-the-edge, hostile corners variation which seems to be the best balanced - a good tournament might give it a good road test, as it did for the Fetlar rules. In the meantime, I'm up for testing the 11 x 11 game with 2-side king capture
2011-08-20 09:25:21 Aage: There's already been done some test games with 11x11 board, 2-sides king capture, king wins on the edge - see link below to lists and animations. Up to now mostly white has won.
2011-08-20 09:38:48 Aage: @ sea slug: good idea of a future tournament with the 9x9 board! It could fx. be in November. With three months in between, different rules sets could actually regularly be road tested this way.
2011-08-20 11:53:03 sea slug: to aage: That's great! I will look forward to it. In the meantime, if that variation is to be the tournament rules, can you put a "9x9 tournament rules" button in the options, to make it easier to select the correct rules for practising? That would be really helpful. Cheers!
2011-11-12 21:03:34 Roderich: Nice! What I somehow like is the new mechanic of draw forts - white must come out and fight! I just wonder, if maybe it is white now that is weaker because of only one chieftain (or what was its name)? And it is no longer the same, if start from west, east, north oder south. Let's play more matches to find out!
2011-11-12 21:12:11 Hagbard: When white looses its only extra help, the knight, as I did, white is definitely weaker. But we have yet to see the knight at work.
2011-11-15 18:03:20 Roderich: good work! :D the knight's an evil bitch from hell! right now, I know why white has only got one of them
2011-11-16 16:34:45 Hagbard: That's why there's only one!
2011-11-19 17:41:06 Roderich: That berserk turn was a killer! I really have to re-think my strategy! Greetings from very foggy Rostock
2011-11-19 21:05:52 crust: To Aage: I'm very happy for you to get rid of the ancient photo from Burnsall Viking Festival - more than a year old now! How about a gallery of hnefatafl sets made by players on this site?
2011-11-19 22:36:29 Adam: crust and Aage:My vote says keep the picture of the logs of war! Its inspiring to see the game being played and taught. But more pictures, absolutely!
2011-11-20 08:53:13 Hagbard: To Roderich: a lucky triple-berserk
2011-11-21 18:53:56 Aage: The Hnefatafl game is 1600 years old, and the Burnsall photos on Hnefatafl are but one year old, so - they're really very up to date! I think Burnsall is a good photo series, so if it's ok I'd agree with Adam in keeping it. The photos are moved to a new page with room for many more.
2011-11-22 01:02:15 crust: ok :)
2011-12-13 11:20:09 crust: to Hagbard: please can we have little ship symbols as playing pieces for sea battle tafl? and a watery texture for the board? That would be awesome. I'm not asking for an animation of captured ships sinking with a glug-glug noise, though come to think of it...
2011-12-13 11:25:58 crust: ...could be a viking ship, for example.
2011-12-13 17:33:08 Hagbard: Sea battle graphics could maybe be changed after New Year. Though the sea battle board is after all *seagreen* now.
2011-12-27 20:57:31 crust: season's greetings to tafl players of the world! Happy new year 2012!
2011-12-30 10:34:33 Hagbard: A Happy New Year to all users of these pages!
2011-12-31 06:53:20 chuck ward: Happy New Year Tafl warriors
2012-01-19 17:46:03 Adam: Hello all, I wanted to hear peoples opinions of berserk hnefatafl? I am still getting the hang of it, but my impression is that it is an extremely playable, surprising and entertaining game. I really like Aage's reasoning behind the rule set and the new pieces. And importantly, the draw problem largely evaporates. Perpetual check is still available to a desperate king of course. If you haven't played it, give it a few games, its great!
2012-02-13 19:56:27 Adam: Nice to see some more boards. I'm planning some interesting ones for a viking war exhibition. Will send photos.
2012-02-15 21:03:31 crust: Adam, please will you upload a picture of your amazing red versus blue hnefatafl set? Ta
2012-02-18 16:17:50 Hagbard: The vertical Hnefatafl is in the photos gallery.
2012-02-27 01:04:10 crust: The new Copenhagen tournament has begun!
2012-04-12 22:30:41 crust: oh, right! I see now.
2012-04-16 12:48:01 Hagbard: Fetlars page about Hnefatafl World Championship (fetlar.org/hnefatafl-world-championship) informs: "2012 Championships to be held in Fetlar usually in early August".
2012-04-16 20:46:47 crust: re: world championships... no details yet from Grandmaster Kelly of the exact date and time.
2012-04-16 22:37:09 crust: Nel 2008 lo Hnefatafl fu riportato in auge grazie a Peter Kelly sull’isola di Fetlar nelle Shetland, dove si tengono ogni estate i campionati mondiali di Hnefatafl.
2012-06-17 11:59:18 crust: hey - the last line of chat appears in blue on the game summary page - that's very good! I like the recent changes - especially the "current board positions" view - look at all that tafl!
2012-06-25 16:20:53 Hagbard: Sea battle tafl rules and berserk rules added.
2012-06-26 14:03:36 Hagbard: Noone used the Rachunek tafl variant for three months, and the players who used it are now all playing only the simpler descendant, Sea Battle tafl. Sea Battle tafl turned out to work very well - the balance at this moment is 11 white wins, 7 black wins and 2 draws. For Rachunek tafl the balance is 10 white wins, 2 black wins and 2 draws (for the games on this site). I suggest Rachunek to be considered obsolete on this site and replaced by Sea Battle tafl.
2012-06-28 00:43:18 crust: Sea battle is awesome
2012-07-22 13:50:36 Hagbard: The Shetland Times' "What’s On in Shetland – August 2012 + on" doesn't mention the Hnefatafl Championship scheduled for early August?
2012-07-23 17:23:11 Hagbard: If Fetlar misses the tournament this year again, I suggest we have an informal one here like last year? Rules: Fetlar as usual. Timeout: One move per one day, ten moves per ten days. Start of tournament: When we know for certain if Fetlar cancels the event.
2012-07-24 00:20:27 Chuck Ward: Great Idea
2012-07-24 00:33:59 crust: Yes, that would be great. I met up with two friends just back from holiday in Shetland and they got the impression there will be a championship this year, but if so, it's odd that the date hasn't been announced.
2012-07-25 19:54:42 crust: just heard from Peter Kelly that the Fetlar hnefatafl championship is definitely cancelled, again owing to poor health.
2012-07-25 21:02:15 Hagbard: Sorry to hear that. Surely a real world championship is better than a virtual one, but we will go ahead then.
2012-07-25 22:44:24 Hagbard: Button for tournament is on. Who will be the Unofficial Hnefatafl Grand Master over the internet 2012? Good luck!!
2012-07-27 12:53:06 Adam: Sorry to hear fetlar was cancelled. A speedy recovery to Mr Kelly. Glad to hear the tournament will be honoured with a fetlar rules tournament here. How are we scoring draws in the tournament? .5/.5 or 0/0...?
2012-07-27 17:07:18 Hagbard: What about 0.5/0.5 as is probably used on Fetlar. But the monstrous fort is a no-go.
2012-07-29 08:22:27 Adam: I think fetlar is fetlar as far as the game is concerned, and we ought not to alter teh rules, without calling it something else. Better to alter the scoring to discourage it rather than forbid it. Just a thought.
2012-07-29 10:38:27 Hagbard: To the Fetlar players: what do you think - should we use the 0. / 0. points for the draw?
2012-07-29 11:07:02 crust: I think we should! I am in a fetlar game over on DHL against matematician, and he's doing a double monstrosity fort ... again! People who play like that should not be rewarded with half a point
2012-07-29 11:11:25 Hagbard: If no objections, we'll go for the 0. / 0. draw points then.
2012-07-29 16:24:50 Chuck Ward: Sounds good
2012-07-29 17:07:35 Harbard: By the way, the "offer draw" button is a flip flop button: If you clicked it by mistake, just click again to erase the draw offer.
2012-07-30 22:02:16 Hagbard: At last year's tournament I mailed to reenactment groups in USA, UK, Germany, Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Poland, Ukraine, Russia, you name it, and website owners and forums etc. But seemingly nobody showed up, so the potential participants are already here, I suppose?
2012-08-01 00:33:07 crust: If we made it into a cult religion, we would have thousands of fanatical devotees. It could be called the "Church of Hnefatology"
2012-08-01 03:43:05 Chuck Ward: I will follow your teachings oh mighty messiah
2012-08-02 00:20:30 crust: that would be "Crustianity"...
2012-08-02 10:42:19 Hagbard: Fetlar has, probably today, added a note to their Hnefatafl World Championship page about their cancelling this year, and are so kind to forward the readers to the present page, thank you!
2012-08-02 22:18:20 Adam: He's not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy.
2012-08-03 00:21:21 crust: there's no messiah in here. There's a mess all right, but no messiah.
2012-08-04 10:29:40 crust: to Hagbard: do you keep a record of how many games are going on in the website at any time? There seem to be a lot right now, thanks to the tournament...Is this a record?
2012-08-04 10:40:33 Hagbard: I don't keep a record of it, but I've never seen this many before. At this moment 74 games are on the active list, of which 14 were completed less than 24 hours ago and 60 are ongoing. It is no doubt a record.
2012-08-04 12:07:13 crust: There are some very interesting games going on, and the "current board positions" button makes it wonderfully easy to watch their progress. Some great new players!
2012-08-07 20:41:17 crust: Great tournament Aage.
2012-08-08 08:59:57 Aage: 46 fights settled, 64 remain.
2012-08-09 13:41:42 crust: the table showing all the players in the tournament is now 11 by 11 squares. That reminds me of something, but I can't think what...
2012-08-09 21:07:39 Adam: Excellent tournament, loving all my games. Not finding time to chat 'in game' so much, so I thought I'd post here to all my opponents at once - excellent games, loads of challenging strategies to attempt to confound, so nice to see the game generating so much good play. Good luck to all!
2012-08-10 00:21:40 barba: Just posting here to let you all know I love the alternative tournament. Enjoying losing as much as the occasional win. ;-)
2012-08-10 16:38:33 Hagbard: New record August 7th: 89 games were on the active list, of which 5 were completed less than 24 hours earlier and 84 were ongoing.
2012-08-14 09:48:24 barba: @Crust: Luck has nothing to do with it.... except for bad luck when loosing offcourse. ;-)
2012-08-15 01:36:29 Chuck Ward: Very fun...win or lose.....just very happy we have so many players in this community
2012-08-16 22:48:26 crust: That is really true! And such a friendly site :)
2012-08-18 10:58:00 crust: To all players: Please come and join the World Tafl Forum, or International Hnefatafl Society, look in the "large" forum under the heading "Announcements"... Thanks!
2012-08-22 20:35:37 Adam: just scrolling through the tournament game list. That's a lot of hnefatafl!
2012-09-02 23:38:11 crust: Huge thanks to Aage Nielsen for his work setting up and moderating the tournament, not to mention his bug-fixing and data-entry duties. Thank you!
2012-09-04 09:28:12 Adam: Congratulations to Crust for such a convincing win in the Fetlar tournament. The battle continues for silver and bronze! Thanks to Aage for continuing to be our generous host and webmaster. Your hard work is much appreciated!
2012-09-04 17:37:31 Hagbard: Congratulations to crust for the victory in the Fetlar tournament! NB The throne & edge rules of Copenhagen and Berserk Hnefatafl are the same as in Fetlar from today.
2012-09-04 21:35:40 crust: ;)
2012-09-09 11:08:26 crust: I am trying to learn how to play Berserk by watching games between Adam and Hagbard. A bit like watching a duel between Gandalf and Saruman, all sorts of wizardly things going on
2012-09-12 10:06:42 Hagbard: Crust has suggested for the Berserk board a dark red color to signal the berserk bloody violence of the game. Now a lighter tone color called "Flame" is tried, still to signal hectic war activity, but I don't know if the color is easy enough for the eyes. Any suggestions for alternatives?
2012-09-12 12:23:24 Hagbard: I found a "blood red", maybe it can be used.
2012-09-12 20:02:37 Adam: I quite enjoyed the red board, its gone pale green now on my computer. I think it works well having striking differences between the board colours for different variants. helps to put ones brain in the correct gear.
2012-09-12 20:04:52 Adam: @crust - lol
2012-09-14 00:28:19 barba: Berserk colors are just fine right now. Make me feel just going in 'veldig kjempe berserk modus'. ;-)
2012-09-14 10:59:29 crust: I agree! But pieces would look better black and white (rather than brown and yellow) IMHO
2012-09-14 10:59:29 Hagbard: Venetian Red on now; an earth color with rust, iron-oxide, also a somewhat bloody color -
2012-09-16 11:35:44 crust: Venetian red is awesome. I really like having different board colours for the different rule sets. Please continue! e.g. a different green for the non-fetlar "hnefatafl 11x11" or blue for scandinavian museums rules or edge rules
2012-09-18 11:41:52 Hagbard: Berserk color changed again into Cinnabar red, which is a Vikings' color. The added blue and yellow are also Vikings' colors.
2012-09-18 19:37:34 crust: great colours. What's the blue called?
2012-09-18 20:41:28 Hagbard: The blue Viking color is Lapis lazuli. A very expensive color used on kings' ships to show they could afford it. The color is used on the Sea Stallion reconstruction in Roskilde.
2012-09-18 20:46:57 Hagbard: The yellow color is Ochre.
2012-09-18 22:09:37 crust: I was going to guess "ultramarine", which I think is more or less the same blue as Lapis Lazuli. Excellent. The "current board positions" page is now much more colourful
2012-09-19 00:13:51 Hagbard: Should be very close to ultramarine, and also related to the ancient Egyptian Blue.
2012-09-19 19:12:27 crust: The Sea Stallion is beautiful! Thanks for the link.
2012-09-25 17:25:02 barba: Nice new colours Aage!
2012-09-27 09:04:45 Hagbard: ;)
2012-10-02 00:15:40 barba: Indeed ;)
2012-10-08 11:26:04 crust: That's just beautiful...
2012-10-08 21:10:54 Adam: Wow! A berserk hnefatafl set! Beautiful design, Very elegant.
2012-10-12 20:47:18 barba: Nice set indeed!
2012-10-15 15:56:50 crust: to Hagbard: severe case of PEBKAC at my end
2012-10-15 19:49:00 Hagbard: I wouldn't say that; I'd call it a grave design imperfection.
2012-10-16 00:26:41 crust: thanks for resurrecting the affected game in any case. The king still has his "dead" facial expression, but is moving normally, a bit like Frankenstein's monster
2012-10-16 00:45:04 Hagbard: :-D
2012-10-22 17:45:29 Hagbard: A Berserk tournament is started.
2012-10-24 15:41:54 crust: To Hagbard: Thanks for setting up the tournament! To all players, good luck! And watch out for those berserk moves...
2012-11-12 15:12:10 Hagbard: The Scand. museums Hnefatafl edge 11x11 tournament has started after request from conanlib. Please remember that the king is captured from 2 sides! And wins on the edge. The variant is still under suspicion of not being proper balanced, therefore the games are not rated and you may participate without risking your place on the rating list. It's however the hope that the tournament can show that the variant is balanced after all. It might be a good idea if the players still involved in the Berserk tournament settle the Berserk games before starting here, as the rules are so different. This tournament will be open for new players for 20 days.
2012-12-01 18:52:15 Hagbard: The small change in Berserk is implemented: a commander cannot capture the king against the throne.
2012-12-02 22:35:02 crust: I like the re-design, it makes the games page much clearer and easier to use
2012-12-04 00:58:04 crust: Congrats to Adam for winning the Berserk tournament with 17 wins out of a possible 18. Awesome!
2012-12-06 03:01:23 altti: ia there a program for fitchneal
2012-12-06 09:01:24 Hagbard: Couple of questions: Where is the fitchneal game played? (re-enactment clubs, societies). Is the king armed? Is it decided whether the game is a tafl game (forces 2:1) or a lantrunculi game (forces 1:1)? Are there sites with the rules? Is the game balanced?
2012-12-06 11:20:15 Hagbard: Много русских гостей в эти дни, добро пожаловать! Можно здесь играть в тавлеи и против компъютер и против человеков.
2012-12-06 19:10:09 altti: it is an irish variant played on a 7X7 board. 8 defenders plus king in a cross. 16 attackers three centered along each side one in each corner.
2012-12-06 20:03:22 crust: You can play Fitchneal at: alumnus.caltech.edu/~leif/games/Hnefetafl/fitchnealCA.html Fitchneal is an Irish game of the Middle Ages. It is descended from the Norse game Hnefetafl, differing in a few minor details and perhaps in board size. The object of the game is to capture the defender's king, or to get the king to escape by reaching a board edge. The defender has six men and a king; the attacker has twelve men. All pieces move in a straight line along a row or column (no diagonals, much as a rook moves in chess). The light square in the center is called the "king's square", and only the king may land on it or move over it. Pieces may not be jumped. Ordinary pieces (but not the king) are captured by being bracketed (called custodial capture) by two enemy pieces across from each other. The king's square can also be used (in place of a piece) to capture an attacker or the king, although the king may not be used to capture. A piece may safely move between two enemy pieces, tho
2012-12-06 20:04:48 crust: ...though; only the moving player may capture. The king may be captured by being surrounded on all four sides by enemy pieces or the king's square. The attacker moves first. (that's the rules as stated on that website) :)
2012-12-06 20:05:32 crust: I hope this means Fitchneal might make an appearance here!
2012-12-06 20:30:04 altti: then there is Alea Evangeli an Anglo-Saxon variant on a 19X19 board. too complex to describe the layout. defenders move first
2012-12-06 20:32:28 altti: the 11X11 variant is welsh called Tawlbrydd, as described in the publication I have.
2012-12-06 23:43:36 crust: you can keep Alea Evangelii... >>yawn<<
2012-12-08 19:10:23 Adam: I have a suspicion that the Alea manuscript will turn out to be something of a missing link in taflology when properly deciphered. I agree that the game as it stands is pretty unplayable in correspondence format. But the version being played online doesnt even agree with the manuscript image. So I'm not giving up on it just yet. And as a live game it might prove to be good fun.
2012-12-14 16:25:42 crust: it's hard to see how white could ever win in Skalk 9x9 corner tafl... So maybe it shouldn't be rated?
2012-12-14 17:53:49 Hagbard: Skalk 9x9 corner tafl not rated, until we know more about this variant.
2012-12-15 18:33:21 Hagbard: Before another Skalk edge tournament, it could be interesting to test the Foteviken Lapp Tablut, which is in use at the Fotevikens Museum?
2012-12-15 19:08:50 crust: yes - good idea.
2012-12-19 16:02:54 altti: does a 9x9 variant exist which has a formal name and includes in its rules the king armed, throne hostile to all, and king escapes any edge?
2012-12-19 17:53:30 Hagbard: That would be "Skalk Hnefatafl 9x9 edge".
2012-12-19 19:09:46 altti: am I correct in reading that the king may be captured against a corner square in skalk? if he moves between the corner and an opponent then an opponent moves to encircle.
2012-12-19 19:14:42 Hagbard: yes
2012-12-19 19:36:58 Hagbard: correction: no! If the king moves between the corner and an opponent, he's safe.
2012-12-19 20:26:57 altti: he then wins in the subsequent move. black may not capture.
2012-12-19 20:50:53 Hagbard: yes, wins in next move. Black may capture with one against the corner, but not with two (in Skalk).
2012-12-20 10:52:14 crust: The Seas are ruled by Captain Crust and Admiral Arne. Haharrr!
2012-12-24 17:41:54 altti: I'm down from luck 13!
2012-12-24 23:56:35 crust: Happy Christmas everybody!
2012-12-25 07:38:07 Hagbard: Merry Yule and a Happy New Year to all Hnefatafl players!
2012-12-29 04:33:14 altti: joyous lunar new year.(last full moon of the year)
2013-01-01 14:21:10 fairland: Happy New Year to all my new friends at aagenielsen.
2013-01-01 22:46:59 crust: :) good hnefatafling in 2013!
2013-01-02 10:56:47 Hagbard: Do some of our North American fellow Hnefatafl players have access to the details of the Norse America rules?
2013-01-02 16:21:43 Hagbard: In the Foteviken Lapp Tablut tournament 7 players did 42 games: 25 white wins and 17 black wins. The 4 highest rated players alone did 12 games: 6 white wins and 6 black wins. With Fetlar we saw that the black side was very difficult for beginners, maybe it's similar here. Could be that the Lapp Tablut can be rated for future games?
2013-01-02 19:23:59 fairland: I have seen Norse America rules online I think.
2013-01-02 23:49:27 crust: very nice game set fairland
2013-01-03 00:54:50 crust: to Hagbard, Foteviken Tablut is in accord with our experience of other tafl forms - beginners find the game unbalanced in favour of white (defenders), but experienced players find the game much better balanced
2013-01-03 09:54:29 Hagbard: Foteviken is rated.
2013-01-03 11:37:46 Hagbard: I haven't yet found a crystal clear rules set from searching for "Norse America" && hnefatafl && rules; as opposed to Skalk 11x11 and memory.no (= History Craft) where I have the printed, original rules from the game boxes in hand.
2013-01-03 13:30:05 fairland: Then I don't at least. But I can't speak for all of the American players.
2013-01-05 10:58:40 fairland: I have a question for anyone to answer. As an isolated hnefatafl player, I have never actually heard hnefatafl pronounced. Using my immensly limited knowledge of Old Morsel I came up with Nevataf. Any corrections or comments?
2013-01-05 12:55:37 Hagbard: Being a Dane, I say "Nefatafl", first e like French é (long e), first a like in addictive, and second a like in arcane (short a). Stress on first syllable.
2013-01-05 14:18:11 Hagbard: This site: www.vikingwoodcarving.com/vikingceltic.htm says it's based on the Norse America game, and then refers to www.gamecabinet.com/history/Hnef.html for the rules. If that's so, then Norse America has a friendly throne (only hostile to the king), corners hostile to everybody, and the king can be captured on the edge by three or two men.
2013-01-06 05:23:58 altti: looking forward to seeing the completed board and set Fairland. is anyone here a SCAdian?
2013-01-06 15:48:43 crust: Wow Altti beautiful board!
2013-01-06 16:59:04 Hagbard: National Museums Scotland sells a Hnefatafl game box and writes "Attackers (brown pieces) must kill the king for victory by surrounding him on four sides, either with attackers or a combination of boundaries and attackers." But this is a History Craft set? nms home page: shop.nms.ac.uk/products/The-Viking-Game-(Hnefatafl).html
2013-01-07 03:49:15 altti: thank you. I'll be making more with different exotic woods. I'm a better craftsman than competitor.
2013-01-07 04:42:28 altti: yeah back up to lucky 13 in the rankings
2013-01-07 04:53:44 fairland: Better craftsman than player may be so, I believe you have beaten me as both. Beautiful set.
2013-01-07 13:10:10 altti: the craft is not in the comparing but in the experience of the doing and your doing intricate art work. Cheers!
2013-01-07 23:57:06 crust: The amazing photos of hand-made hnefatafl sets in the picture gallery are powerful evidence of the "hnefatafl renaissance".
2013-01-08 11:13:28 Hagbard: www.empowernetwork.com/lee33/blog/kings-table-one-of-those-board-games-for-adults/ This is an American advocating for History Craft rules plus this one: "If an attacker is beside a corner square it can be captured - think of the corner as if it has a defender's piece on it at all times." So, corners are only hostile to attackers. Are these rules his invention or are they Norse America rules?
2013-01-08 14:09:22 crust: he seems to have a History Craft set in the photograph, presumably containing Norse America rules
2013-01-11 10:04:04 Hagbard: About the skalk 9x9 edge test tournament: seven players of nine have completed all their 42 games against each other; result 23 white wins, 19 black wins, 0 draws. The four strongest players had against each other 6 white wins and 6 black wins. So, future games of the skalk 9x9 edge variant can be rated? (when the 22 remaining games are completed, a new counting is done)
2013-01-11 18:04:29 crust: I have the subjective impression that skalk 9x9 edge is balanced, so I would support the idea of having this variant rated :)
2013-01-12 08:02:52 fairland: Despite doing quite horribly myself, I see gameplay as balanced and would say. Rank away.
2013-01-12 20:45:31 conanlib: Yes, seems to be at least as balanced as sea battle tafl. I guess I'll have to work on my attacker game, regardless of sea-battle or skalk edge 9x9 I do much better as defender. Sorry about the time out game btw.
2013-01-17 22:09:29 conanlib: so, what's the next tournament going to be? :)
2013-01-17 23:11:09 Hagbard: Skalk 9x9 very soon. Skalk 9x9 has a special history: In the 1990'ies there was in Sweden a firm called ExpoMedia, which created software for history exhibitions. One of its products was a computer program playing Hnefatafl. The program was also given free on the internet for many years in the form of a web page with a Hnefatafl applet. The page was so popular on the net that it to this day is still referenced from 184 other sites, even though it ceased to exist twelve years ago. The ExpoMedia Hnefatafl was Skalk 9x9.
2013-01-19 05:27:13 altti: I, for one, am truly grateful that you have continued to keep the faith after ExpoMedia discontinued!
2013-01-25 23:43:18 altti: looks like skalk 9x9 is favorable to attacker
2013-02-02 19:55:22 Hagbard: The Skalk 9x9 test tournament until now: 12 white wins and 33 black wins. Looks like a variant which should not be rated?
2013-02-02 20:00:13 crust: if you mean skalk corner tafl, then I say NO, keep it unrated! The proof is here, that it is not a balanced game.
2013-02-02 20:02:27 crust: I mean "yes, don't rate it", not "no, don't not rate it"
2013-02-03 07:52:09 Hagbard: Skalk Hnefatafl edge 9x9 is rated. Also, some games which were started after January 12th (when it was agreed to rate future games of this variant) were rated manually.
2013-02-04 21:55:11 Hagbard: A next test tournament is planned to be the Ashton Tablut. The variant can be played against the computer from the "Tablut online" page.
2013-02-05 15:20:03 Hagbard: No, perhaps some would want a break from those very special variants. History Craft needs a test run. It is simply identical to Fetlar except for one difference: the throne (the center square) is always friendly, that is, it does not take part in captures. (But the king is surrounded as usual by three blacks plus throne). History Craft Hnefatafl is manufactured in UK and sold from museum shops in several European countries.
2013-02-05 19:47:46 crust: we tafl feinschmeckers don't mind...
2013-02-05 19:51:20 Hagbard: ;)
2013-02-20 20:00:07 Hagbard: The Danish quality newspaper Weekendavisen had an article about Hnefatafl last Friday, and they use a fine quotation from Millar. You can see the article here: www.weekendavisen.dk/smarticle/view/3
2013-02-21 01:11:11 crust: apparently I can speak danish! I didn't know that
2013-02-21 05:23:23 Hagbard: It's something you say about Hnefatafl on your home page, perfectly translated.
2013-02-22 00:00:09 crust: Det er et af de spil, som er nemt at lære, men svært at mestre
2013-02-22 00:42:34 Hagbard: Netop, og godt sagt ;)
2013-02-22 02:30:51 crust: English Hnefatafl Championship tournament Sunday 18th August 2013 to be held at Sutton Hoo Anglo-Saxon burial site near Woodbridge, Suffolk, UK. Please see "announcements" section of large forum for more details.
2013-03-07 14:22:06 Adam: Aage, have you considered making it easier to create batches of invites? The process is very laborious if one wants to invite say ten people to a black and a white game of hnefatafl.
2013-03-07 17:57:40 Aage: I didn't think of it, but it looks like a good idea. I'll take it up in some software update.
2013-03-07 22:06:17 crust: It would be nice to be able to invite for a pair of games (one black, one white)
2013-03-08 20:40:42 Adam: If it was possible to make the buttons where you select player name, game type and colour into flip flop buttons, then one could invite for multiple games with different players without any visual changes at least. Though no doubt it would create considerable behind the scenes complications!
2013-03-09 06:46:41 Aage: That's how the layout should be.
2013-03-11 07:44:46 Hagbard: Since the Skalk rules have an important position in Scandinavia, and especially the Skalk 11x11 variant, it'd be wise to test Skalk 11x11 properly in a test tournament before summing up on the Skalk variants. Remember: king is captured from 2 sides! and wins in corner.
2013-03-16 10:35:44 crust: to Adam, Welcome to the 1900 club!
2013-03-17 08:04:54 Adam: Totally agree with crust about position vs protecting pieces. We've been through this on the forum a lot, and an obviously unbalanced rule set has some value as a handicap system, but if one is not aware of this, playing an unbalanced rule set can lead to bad habits if you play the stronger side. One should always play a black and white game against an opponent as the game is asymmetrical and requires different strategies. Playing two games in order to achieve balance leads to an absurdity: Why not play with 24 black verses 1 white weaponless king with corner escape and two sided capture?
2013-03-17 20:01:57 Jurgenson: Many variants of the rules is a consequence of the fact that different researchers have tried to recreate the original. Asymmetric game so to determine the winner playing two games. If one player wins both sides of the issues there. And if such a black won both, the winner the one who has less loss. Perhaps it is difficult to implement technically. And not everyone wants to play a couple of games at once. I am reenactor, and just a little bit interested in the historical aspect of the game. PS Cases when the initial position moves have already been made I also had. PS2 Sorry for my english, google translate help me.
2013-03-17 23:07:07 Adam: I think I see the point. I suppose if a variant was absurdly out balanced one could play two games and decide who wins on points. But then the goal of the game has shifted, the goal is now to slaughter pieces, not to capture or free the king. Which is fine, but it is a different game.
2013-03-24 14:00:06 altti: those are an impressive set of peices and the rules are an important addition. I like the peg board idea.
2013-03-25 00:42:02 crust: to altti: thanks! Would be a terrible shame to drill into one of your boards though!
2013-03-25 17:00:45 Adam: Lovely Sea tafl set!
2013-03-28 11:53:14 crust: to Adam: see what you've got me into
2013-03-29 13:40:06 altti: Im in the top ten for the first time! (we'll see how long that lasts) I've been hovering from 13 to 11 for the longest time. YEAH!
2013-03-29 15:34:17 Jurgenson: Are there any plans add Roman game Latrunculi? Would be interesting to test the human vs human.
2013-03-30 10:05:02 Hagbard: About Latrunculi, sorry, no plans for adding in any near future. Maybe Latrunculi could be an interesting project for Italian board gamers to put online on the internet?
2013-03-30 11:33:44 crust: ROMANES EUNT DOMUS
2013-03-30 12:37:14 Jurgenson: Maybe. It is interesting as a forerunner Tafl. And as an version, with equal force. Simply because to do on the basis ready, than nothing.
2013-04-01 11:38:11 Don: Romanii ite domum surely
2013-04-01 13:15:26 Predo: Can't wait for the UK championship this year
2013-04-01 21:39:00 Adam: 'people call the romans they go the house?'
2013-05-02 19:00:13 barba: Saw a television program on history channel at a friend's. It was episode 8 of season 1. Ragnar is playing Hnefatafl in it. In another episode, I spotted a board game, but it turned out to be a different game. I guess a Dablot-like game. But in episode 8 our favorite game actually is being displayed. Just so you know.
2013-05-06 23:00:19 crust: they often have viking festivals there I believe
2013-05-10 12:25:44 Jurgenson: Have an offer to try other variants initial arrangement Hnefatafl: celtica.narod.ru/hnef/Image7.gif celtica.narod.ru/hnef/Image6.gif
2013-05-29 13:13:51 Hagbard: Based on the test tournament balances I suppose it'll be fair to rate the variants Skalk Hnefatafl edge 11x11 Sea battle tafl 11x11
2013-05-30 22:18:29 Adam: I will be promoting hnefatafl at the Tønsberg middleages festival this weekend in Norway. A new giant board has been made specially for the occasion. I will send in some pictures. Hopefully I will encourage some new players to visit the site.
2013-06-07 14:55:58 altti: thank you for the help. this is a wonderful site that we can take part in lighting up a game lost to time.
2013-06-15 18:15:34 crust: Min luftpudebåd er fyldt med ål
2013-06-15 19:11:20 Monthy: My hovercraft is full of eels
2013-06-24 12:08:50 Hagbard: 2013 Fetlar World Championship scheduled for Saturday 3rd August on the Shetland island Fetlar! See more here: www.fetlar.org/hnefatafl-world-championship
2013-06-25 19:32:48 Hagbard: Does anyone know the precise rules of Norse America, out of the game box?
2013-07-17 21:46:03 Chuck Ward: To Hagbard:I have the Norse America rules book I can scan.
2013-07-18 01:26:03 Hagbard: Could you please email them to me? We are several who have for a long time wondered how they are exactly.
2013-07-18 23:02:25 Hagbard: - or give a detailed description in the forum, please.
2013-07-20 05:24:28 Chuck Ward: To Hagbard:Sent to your email
2013-07-21 12:57:06 Hagbard: Thanks a lot, very interesting! I can write a summary for the forum when I have some time.
2013-07-21 22:23:32 Chuck Ward: not a problem :)
2013-07-24 19:15:27 Sybil: From Italy we'll think you at Hnefatafl World Championship 2013!!! We would like to join it!!!!!
2013-08-04 14:08:01 Chuck Ward: Any update on The Hnefatafl World Championship?
2013-08-04 16:06:39 crust: I heard nothing yet...
2013-08-04 16:18:44 Chuck Ward: oh your not playing this year crust?
2013-08-04 16:32:32 crust: no, it's really someone else's turn! plus it's a heck of a long journey
2013-08-04 16:48:04 Chuck Ward: Understandable.
2013-08-05 13:34:11 crust: cthulhu vs. the vikings - they're playing our song!!
2013-08-05 16:05:12 crust: The Quickplay World hnefatafl Championship 2013 was won by Amanda Caukwell of Fetlar, Shetland. Congratulations to her, she is Shetland's first home-grown winner
2013-08-07 09:25:40 Hagbard: Right, and we're going to also find out, who'll be this year's Internet Champion! The Internet Championship Tournament started two days ago, and the sign in for the tournament will be open for 20 days. Good luck!
2013-08-08 12:52:38 crust: there's a thought-proviking broadcast about hnefatafl here: theworld.org/2013/08/hnefatafl/ don't forget to put the usual w's and a dot in front
2013-08-08 12:54:47 crust: it's from the creator of "cthulhu vs the vikings" who argues that hnefatafl could be useful in training intelligence professionals... does he mean spies?
2013-08-08 13:40:15 Hagbard: wauw!
2013-08-09 19:43:48 crust: REMINDER: English National Hnefatafl Championship 2013 to be held Sunday 18th August from 10 a.m. at Sutton Hoo, near Woodbridge, Suffolk, UK. Free to enter, but there is a charge to enter the site (National Trust). Organised by Ealdfaeder Saxons, who also present Saxon crafts and storytelling. Rules: Fetlar. Umpire: Tim Millar (crust). Trophies for senior and junior categories, plus special "I beat the grand-master" awards. Got to beat me to get one of them! Hope to see some of you there
2013-08-10 17:31:41 Hagbard: Interview with Mjølnir in Neues Deutschland: www.neues-deutschland.de/artikel/829779.koenig-schnappen-und-dorsch-fangen.html (hat tip: René Gralla)
2013-08-11 11:05:34 Hagbard: With the hope that you'll have a good tournament in Sutton Hoo! Looking forward to the photos, and who will be the English Champion 2013.
2013-08-12 21:41:31 Adam: Good luck to all in the online tournament. Should be a good one!
2013-08-19 11:39:21 crust: 2013 English National Hnefatafl champion: Pete Jennings. Junior champion: Guinevere Ferry-Swainson. Congratulations to them, there were some very hard-fought matches. photos soon.
2013-08-19 17:57:23 Hagbard: Congratulations with the completed English national tournament! And you had a fine weather for it, too. How many then won the "I beat the grand-master" awards...?
2013-08-19 19:59:30 crust: Erm... none, but I hope they enjoyed trying ;)
2013-08-19 20:00:00 crust: I'll mail you some pics Aage
2013-08-20 11:22:06 crust: Thanks for posting the pictures Hagbard ;) (you can take the notice down now)
2013-08-22 17:00:49 crust: Hey hagbard, would there be aby way of making the games archive searchable? (e.g. by player name, rule variant etc?) Just asking ;)
2013-08-22 17:01:35 crust: "any" - damn gremlins
2013-08-31 08:25:53 crust: yes, I noticed that too :)
2013-09-05 15:02:40 crust: congratulations Nath for getting over 2000 in the ratings - A new record I believe!
2013-09-22 09:04:51 Hagbard: And by the way, Nath already won the WTF championship 2013, congratulations!
2013-09-22 09:38:30 Hagbard: New test tournament: Sea battle tafl 9x9 (Imperial Contest). NB Same rules as Sea battle tafl 9x9 but with the twist that the cargo ship cannot move more than four squares per move.
2013-09-22 09:55:00 crust: Congratulations Nath! You are really bringing some strong tactics. Very well deserved victory
2013-09-26 21:25:53 Hagbard: Copenhagen balances are updated in the balances overview page. Result of the championship tournament was balance +1.30.
2013-09-27 13:11:31 crust: apparently the Roskilde viking ship is going to London for a Viking exhibition next year! It will be transported in flat-pack form - how appropriate ;)
2013-09-27 18:14:46 Hagbard: 2007-2008 it sailed to Dublin and return with 65 men at the oars, and it is planned to some day sail to New York.
2013-09-27 19:55:44 crust: Oh that's the sea stallion? I think it's the other ship that's going to London :) the one they dug up
2013-09-27 23:13:04 Hagbard: You're right, I checked the National Museum web site. The exhibition is in Copenhagen now, and will travel to London next and then Berlin.
2013-09-28 09:09:54 crust: to hagbard, will you be able to see it in Copenhagen? (The city was of course named after a famous set of hnefatafl rules)
2013-09-28 09:15:36 Hagbard: Yes, and I'm planning to; it's a very large viking exhibition, a large international collection of items assembled and the largest viking exhibition here since 1993.
2013-09-29 09:40:34 Adam: Congratulations Nath! May I also suggest next year we agree on having a referee, possibly a panel of three, for settling disputes that the computer cannot solve. Thanks to everyone for our most challenging tournament yet! And thanks as always to Aage for running the show.
2013-09-29 21:32:50 crust: Yes, thanks Aage! And that sounds very sensible; 3 umpires would be advisable, agreed on in advance of course.
2013-10-14 21:32:19 Adam: Berserk tournament now running. It's a fantastically entertaining variant of Aage's invention, which could do with more tournament testing, so hopefully all the usual suspects will join in ;)
2013-10-14 22:15:16 crust: Kayser Sose!
2013-10-28 09:26:01 crust: Arrrr! I be the Longships Captain, Pirate King and terror of the seven seas. Well done me.
2013-10-28 10:53:20 Hagbard: Captain Blood!
2013-10-28 11:37:42 crust: great tournament, thanks to cap'n hagbard for running it!
2013-10-29 23:32:56 Nath: congrats :)
2013-11-03 20:43:59 Derek: My brother pronounces it Hentafelen
2013-11-04 00:03:56 Hagbard: Hentafelen - Norwegian?
2013-11-08 06:34:22 Hagbard: Rene Gralla from Germany informed about a recent newspaper article about Hnefatafl in Tromsø, there's a link to the article below on this page.
2013-11-11 18:16:29 Hagbard: New test tournament: Skalk Hnefatafl edge 11x11. Remember, outside center the king is captured from only two sides, and therefore the king isn't as threatening as usual. Wins however on board edge.
2013-11-12 14:11:05 Adam: Are the rules any different from the skalk 11x11 edge tafl tournament performed a year ago?
2013-11-12 15:32:44 Hagbard: No, they're the same. But several players believed that white had a too easy play last year, because the black players forgot about the king's weakness. And thus the measured balance could be misleading.
2013-11-12 19:49:34 Fairland: MAN! I am glad I read that comment! I would have been murdered in this tournament!
2013-11-21 20:26:13 Hagbard: Just seen the movie Thor 2011. It begins in Tønsberg, Norway, 965 A.D.!
2013-11-26 21:29:33 Hagbard: Rene Gralla from Germany informed about a hnefatafl exhibition match in Berlin November 28th. There's a link about it below on this page.
2013-11-27 17:37:59 Adam: Good Stuff. I hope the chess player Silje will try some training games against human players on this site.
2013-12-01 08:11:17 Hagbard: Adam's on 2000!
2013-12-01 12:19:10 altti: looks like he'll take the tourney too. congrats Adam
2013-12-01 20:49:52 Hagbard: Test run of another historical version: the David Brown rules from 1980. King unarmed, wins on edge. Remember that the David Brown throne is friendly towards all ordinary pieces.
2013-12-01 21:47:28 Adam: Thank You! Finally made it into the 21st century, albeit briefly. ;)
2013-12-01 21:50:36 Hagbard: Nath was present at the Berlin tournament and reports: Silje Bjerke played against Olaf Koppe, the director of "Neues Deutschland", the newspaper that offered the location for the tournament.
2013-12-02 22:09:30 nath: What are David Brown rules exactly?
2013-12-02 23:54:58 Hagbard: It's very close to a Sea Battle Tafl 11x11. See the rules page, and also follow the link to Damian Walker's page about the version. It's implemented as described there, except for one detail: according to the original rules only one piece can be killed at a time, but here you can kill up to three pieces at a time as usual.
2013-12-03 00:22:16 nath: I mainly ment the judgment of the perpetual repetition. That is one of the most core questions according to different Hnefatafl rules. Isn't this the same as Salk Hnefatafl 11x11 to the edge? We noticed that both variants king hammer only/anvil only at a 11x11 board is in favor for black. Why should an unarmed king be stronger?
2013-12-03 00:56:05 Hagbard: David Brown doesn't mention about repetitions, which therefore is assumed to be allowed. But in return the encirclement rule prevents the early center draw forts. Skalk is not the same, because the Skalk king is captured from 2 sides, but the David Brown king is captured from 4 sides.
2013-12-03 01:18:21 Hagbard: - which is another help to white.
2013-12-03 01:33:38 nath: Sorry I didn't mean Salk, but anvil/hammer only 11x11 to the edge Hnefatafl. I just had a look at our old testgames. I couldn't find any capture at the throne. So I doubt that this will change much about the balancing. But ok - have fun to all participants!
2013-12-03 06:08:41 Hagbard: That might be so. A couple of points more: the repetitions are a help to white. And the rule about not more than one piece be killed in one move is a help to white; but this is a difficult one to implement, because it requires the player to be able to mark which piece to kill and which to preserve.
2013-12-05 04:52:54 cyningstan: I think that the David Brown rules (and sea battle tafl, for that matter) might become a bit more balanced if the defenders are set out in a cross instead of a diamond. It doesn't look as pretty, but gives them control of two ranks and two files at the beginning of the game - and makes it easier to get the king out. I don't propose a rule change for David Brown as it's historical, but sea battle tafl could benefit from it.
2013-12-06 17:21:51 vonraider: Good article. Thanks for posting.
2013-12-07 14:28:16 Fairland: I liked it, too. And congrats to Nath who became a strong secondary focus of the article!
2013-12-11 02:48:41 altti: as Nath is reigning world champion that would mean that we all have world rankings. cool ranked 7th in world ☺
2013-12-11 17:41:15 vonraider: Hey, if that's true, then I'm doing alright!
2013-12-17 16:59:08 Hagbard: New link in the Berlin-window below, to Bergens Schakklub. The note (in Norwegian) informs that the Norwegian chess master won the Berlin Hnefatafl demonstration match against the Neues Deutschland editor, and that Nath was judge of the game.
2013-12-17 23:28:08 Adam: That's great. I hope we get some more Norwegians playing thanks to the link in the article.
2013-12-19 11:54:32 Hagbard: Finnish linguist Olli Salmi has renewed the discussion on the Linné diary and the Lapp Tablut. Still more points towards the "Skalk Hnefatafl edge 9x9" being it. I suppose it could deserve another test run when the current one is finished. You'll find the debate in the large forum, subject "Linnaeus Tablut and Translations".
2013-12-19 19:21:03 Hagbard: News column added in the Hnefatafl in Berlin window.
2013-12-20 09:44:28 Hagbard: To cyningstan: Interesting idea for the Sea Battle tafl 11x11 to try a cross form initial ordering, your theory being that this would be a help to white. We should try out such a variant after New Year.
2013-12-20 21:06:49 Hagbard: Altti, you're ranked no. 5 now!
2013-12-20 22:27:26 altti: its funny. I had ratings numbers in the 1800's at one point and was only ranked at 7 I believe.
2013-12-21 08:53:17 Hagbard: A very merry Yule and Happy New Year to all the diligent, energetic and inspiring players here!
2013-12-21 16:16:45 altti: solstice blessings to all
2013-12-23 19:48:56 Fairland: Merry Christmas!
2013-12-25 03:54:56 Nath: Merry Christmas to all!
2013-12-25 12:38:32 Adam: Happy feasting season fellow Vikings! Skol!
2013-12-26 13:41:30 Adam: Or rather 'skål!' ;)
2013-12-27 08:25:01 Hagbard: Yule present from altti: two new boards in the gallery.
2013-12-27 18:40:04 Fairland: I wonder if the x shape white starting setup would help with games like ard ri also.
2014-01-01 08:01:34 Fairland: Feliz ano Nuevo a todos!
2014-01-02 10:50:37 Roderich: Hi Hagbard, right now, I'm analyzing Copenhagen games from this website's archive like I did before with Fetlar games. In the archive appear some "Old Copenhagen" games. Did they have the same rules as "Modern Copenhagen" or was there a difference? Greetings, R
2014-01-02 10:59:29 Hagbard: Happy New Year, Roderich. The difference from "old" to "new" Copenhagen is that the shieldwall rule was added.
2014-01-04 00:51:52 timw: New here. Question: it looks to me that white can always force a draw by staying close to the center square with enough men, moving the king back and forth to the center square. Is that right or am I missing something in the rules?
2014-01-04 06:18:32 Hagbard: Good question, that's a scenario which has been debated much here. The encirclement rule prevents it. If white stays in center, black has good time to encircle all the white party and win. Except Fetlar which does not have the encirclement rule - in return in Fetlar, draw is not allowed until white has killed at least two blacks, so also in Fetlar it's not enough to just stay in center.
2014-01-04 21:03:31 Adam: Hi Timw, try out the Copenhagen rules. They are our solution to exactly that problem. I've been playing tafl variants for over twenty years, and can honestly say Copenhagen rules are the most satisfying variant!
2014-01-05 01:01:40 timw: Thank you Adam and Hagbard. I asked before I realized how much more there is to the site. At the moment I'm just playing the computer, trying to gain some understanding of how the basic game works. I like it! I do not understand why the game is not better known. -timw
2014-01-14 08:29:00 Hagbard: Been many new guests for some days. Could be arriving from this article about whether there are lessons to be learnt from Hnefatafl about war tactics: https://medium.com/war-is-boring/cef088ae4e2d
2014-01-14 09:44:14 Hagbard: By the way I came across this fine work by Dmitri Skiryuk: http://skyruk.livejournal.com/246910.html
2014-01-14 09:48:32 Hagbard: December 2012 we had a minor invasion of Russian speaking guests after this article by stand-up comedian Mikhail Zadornov: http://mzadornov.livejournal.com/87308.html
2014-01-15 11:35:30 Hagbard: January 12th there were here 1919 unique visits in a single day, more than usually, presumably because of the War is Boring article.
2014-01-17 14:39:00 Adam: The war is boring article was very nice!
2014-01-23 11:16:03 Hagbard: A big thank you to the players who tested the Saami tablut, the results were interesting and valuable! A note about it has been added to the large forum. Here's another historical variant which needs a test run: the tawlbwrdd game described in a Welsh manuscript 1587. The rules are still the Saami rules: king armed and captured from 2 sides, wins on edge. Only, the tawlbwrdd board is size 11x11 and has no throne square.
2014-01-24 22:54:45 Plantagenêt: I'm 19 years old too. Arne Roland.
2014-01-27 21:38:23 altti: I believe I have made my Est, Finn and Swede ancestors proud. Thank you Olli for delving into Linnaeus' translation .
2014-02-09 11:06:41 crust: Well done Altti! You are the Lapp of honour!
2014-02-09 23:32:49 altti: thank you. my first gold medal ☺
2014-02-11 01:03:52 HOK: Does the encirclement rule still apply if white has created a "fort" so that the king can move back and forth out of the center? Eg. - there is an open space within the "fort?"
2014-02-11 01:16:31 crust: yes it does, as long as all the white pieces are enclosed within an unbroken enclosure
2014-02-11 01:27:35 HOK: Thank-you crust...I see this as a problem. To me, it makes more sense that the result is a draw.
2014-02-11 01:43:12 crust: that's the way it used to be, but we found that some players would sometimes just play for a draw. White can get a draw position in 2 moves.
2014-02-11 01:52:07 HOK: That makes sense...I guess I'm still new at it, and I find that if I get blocked, there seems to be no other option. Building those forts late in the game was tough!
2014-02-11 01:54:51 HOK: Thanks for taking the time to explain this.
2014-02-11 06:23:48 Hagbard: Fetlar Hnefatafl 11x11 has the center draw fort; but remember in Fetlar to kill two attackers first.
2014-02-11 09:32:01 crust: yes sorry I was talking about the Copenhagen rules ;)
2014-02-12 09:59:35 Adam: Well played Altti in the Saami tablut tournament! And Duhawk93 too for a hard fought second place. I think we gave that version a robust testing.
2014-02-12 10:05:47 Adam: @HOK - copenhagen rules are very much the result of finding a way to incorporate fort building in a way that won't lead to a stalemate. So remember that a fort on the board edge, where the king is inside the fort, able to move and have contact with the board edge, is considered an 'exit fort' and therefore a white win. Other 'drawforts' fall foul of the board repetition rule or enclosure rule in copenhagen and are thereby rendered useless. Drawforts are a fun result of the Fetlar rules, which continues to allow them.
2014-02-14 02:29:00 Scanny: I can't seem to play due to security settings
2014-02-14 07:08:01 Hagbard: To Scanny: If the games against the computer is the problem, perhaps you have no Java installed. And when you have, your computer might before every game ask for your permission to run the Java applet.
2014-02-14 15:54:00 cyningstan: I am afraid the security settings are getting worse now, Hagbard. People are being forced to fiddle with their Java settings in order to run the hnefatafl games on your site as well as on mine. The only way to get around this is to pay for the applets to be signed. I am currently looking into moving technologies as it looks like the days of the indie Java applet are numbered.
2014-02-14 17:42:10 Hagbard: That is bad news. I chose Java 13 years ago as the really smart solution for the task. "Write once, run everywhere!" What could be more ideal? Then came the tablets and smartphones which have no Java, and now even PCs cannot run it anymore. Well, they can for some time still; usually the browser launches a small pop up window asking for approval of running the applet. Like you I have also thought about porting the applets to another technology, but am reluctant to do so, because those applets took years to make, and it will take a lot of time to port them.
2014-02-15 09:52:27 Cyningstan: Well done Crust! I noticed the tawlbwrdd was being won by black more often than not. A little while ago I discovered another layout which might be less advantageous to black: white in a cross form, and black in four 3x2 blocks. I think it is suggested in Helmfrid but goes back a lot further - to the F. R. Lewis article in 1940.
2014-02-15 10:03:58 Hagbard: The Lewis is an interesting set up to try, after seeing the result of Tawlbwrdd cross. The Lewis set up also matches the historic formulation by Robert ap Ifan in 1587: "a king (brenin) in the centre and twelve men in the places next to him, and twenty-four lie in wait to capture him. These are placed, six in the center of every end of the board and in the six central places." And the formulation matches even more the Lewis diamond set up. These two Lewis set ups are on the list already and ready to try.
2014-02-15 10:04:11 Cyningstan: Oops, I see that the cross & block formation is already on the site.
2014-02-15 13:51:23 Hagbard: More about the 13x13 board: A set up with the same number of pieces as on the 11x11, 36 pieces plus king, is often seen suggested. You can try this as "Hnefatafl 36 13x13". This variant seems very unbalanced and is not rated anymore. As a curiosum you can also try a scattered set up, "Hnefatafl scattered 13x13". This variant is also not rated anymore, at it seems very unbalanced.
2014-02-15 14:56:42 crust: chess has a white advantage of 52 - 56 per cent, increasing further with more advanced players. Therefore many of the variants we have tested are as well balanced as chess, or better.
2014-02-16 18:38:44 altti: congratulations Crust. and a crafty second for Adam ☺
2014-02-17 08:24:28 crust: thanks! AFK for a week. See you after that! Have fun
2014-03-22 08:37:30 Hagbard: To the many new tafl players: please consider to send your email address to our World Tafl Federation chairman Tim Millar on anomalocharis AT hotmail DOT com , so that we have some other contact information than just an anonymous alias here.
2014-04-14 08:44:27 cyningstan: What's your opinion of the Lewis diamond layout? Mine is that it seems to give quite an exciting game. And I've lost nearly every game, so from my point of view it's balanced :-)
2014-04-15 19:56:12 Watson: the layout of Hnefatafl edge 19x19 (Alea Evangelii)looks cool.
2014-04-18 02:30:14 Fairland: One of these days, my Scottish heritage demands I turn Ard-Ri into a layeable game. Any theorists out there with suggestions?
2014-04-18 08:46:51 Cyningstan: Fairland, I've given this a try already, but it needs a lot more play-testing. Basically it's a 13-piece game, king wins at edge, but I've had to make the king weaponless for balance. For details, Google "reconstructing the Scottish game" "Cyningstan" (quotes and all) and you should find your way to the article I wrote last October.
2014-04-18 15:41:02 Fairland: Thanks alot, Cyningstan.
2014-05-16 03:46:41 altti: could you make the game archives searchable by parameters such as variant and player(s). such as; all copenhagen games played by nath as black. or even all games played by nath vs. hagbard. I would find it less tedious to study a players strengths and weaknesses.
2014-05-16 08:30:50 Hagbard: Good idea. Alas the motherboard of my computer which I used for development, burnt off a week ago. Now I use an old spare computer, which is suited only for the most basic maintenance. When I find a proper, new computer, I'll take this up.
2014-05-20 22:18:07 Hagbard: Rene Gralla sent a newspaper article from the Flensborg Avis about the Tromsø tournament 2014: see below on this page.
2014-05-21 20:06:28 Fairland: Had a hnefatafl tournament with my Humanities students for 2014. I do it every year. This year the kids really grew into the game and showed great improvement even in such a small amount of time!
2014-05-27 15:35:06 Schachus: this feels like an improved version for black... since black is already clearly winning in the bell setup(just look at the games of altti, me and nath with black, apart from the one that was lost in 4 moves), it seams useless to me to make another test tournament.
2014-05-29 00:11:17 nath: I really doubt that this change much. The skill at 11x11 lies in developing pieces. If your are able to develop them it doesn't really matter to which file. But in general Schachus is right. With this setup black has 4 empty files like before, but less weakness at to highly exposed pieces.
2014-05-29 09:25:41 Hagbard: Schachus and Nath, your theories sound reasonable; but this particular rules variant has not been tested before.
2014-06-26 12:50:54 crust: Hagbard, are you still planning to make the games database searchable by player and by rule-set? It now takes a long time to load, maybe it should also be split up into separate sections for each year
2014-06-28 14:42:50 Hagbard: New utility "Search in all archive" added.
2014-06-29 00:28:52 Hagbard: If you don't fill out anything in the "Search all archive", you'll get the full list like before. Yeah, let's find out something about the database. The "old" Hnefatafl 11x11 is the default especially for new players. The rules are a bit simpler and shorter to explain than the Copenhagen variant. Besides, the old Hnefatafl 11x11 is also used in wide circles in USA and Russia.
2014-06-29 00:52:59 crust: Thanks hagbard, that is a huge improvement to the games archive!
2014-06-29 09:48:25 Hagbard: Chess Olympiad Tromsø 2014, the world's fourth largest sporting event, begins in 33 days. See more here: chess24.com/en/olympiad2014
2014-06-29 12:43:17 crust: Tawlbwrdd: armed king captured on 2 sides, wins on edge?
2014-06-29 13:00:47 Hagbard: Right.
2014-06-29 13:15:48 crust: Ok thanks, I will be careful not to let my king get skalked!
2014-07-01 19:49:00 nath: If you want a variant for new players choose Fetlar Hnefatafl. Fetlar Hnefatafl isn't more complicated than 'old' Hnefatafl. In fact you need one rule less (capture king at the corner). The main problem I got with that rules is the unintuitive minimum kill rule. I claim 'old' Hnefatafl is just a draw from the beginning. I can understand that you want a simple ruleset for beginners. But most guys that I encouraged to play here, told me that they are confused (4 times so far). Copenhagen Hnefatafl is the most stable variant we got so far, hence I would suggest to at least mention it at the first page. Maybe it's the best way to show Copenhagen Hnefatafl also below so you can choose already without showing all variants. Different defaults are very confusing.
2014-07-01 20:23:22 Hagbard: Could be. Are there other opinions/support on this?
2014-07-02 02:59:13 vonraider: With my limited experience,I find Copenhagen Hnefatafl is definitely the best rule set I have played so far.
2014-07-02 09:14:17 crust: I'm with Nath on this one. I've always thought fetlar is simpler than "old hnefatafl" (where the board edge is hostile to the king only, but not to other warriors). The different defaults on different pages are a little confusing. Personally I only really want to play Copenhagen as a challenge, though I'll play fetlar or even old hnefatafl to be sociable, and other variants for historical interest. Do you have to have a default at all? Why not just offer a list, with Fetlar and Copenhagen at the top and a side note briefly describing them? (e.g. "as played at the World Championships", "popular with experienced players")
2014-07-02 09:15:22 crust: ...and I'm with vonraider too ;)
2014-07-02 13:29:40 altti: I prefer saami tablut. its simple, thus easy for a beginner to learn and still quite challenging as the board is only 9x9. also it has been found to be balanced. my second pick is Copenhagen for the options it gives the players (shield wall and edge fort).
2014-07-04 10:03:54 Adam: Sounds like an unofficial vote is in progress. I agree with Crust, Nath and Vonraider. tablut, now that it works so well is also a good place for beginners to start. Especially children, though i regularly teach 11x11 to six year olds without any problems.
2014-07-05 03:52:55 altti: to be fair six year olds learn much quicker than older folk. they have a capability to examine all avenues. as we get older we begin to stick to established patterns, and this can be a disadvantage.
2014-07-05 20:17:58 Hagbard: New defaults: Fetlar & Copenhagen. Adam Bartley kindly drew a new set of game pieces for the Copenhagen game, 3D now.
2014-07-06 13:20:12 cyningstan: Oops, serves me right for taking a break - I'd have also put in a vote for (Saami) tablut as being authentic, relatively simple, and balanced. But tablut has its own page on here anyway. Quick question: You say Lewis cross is the last of the tawlbwrdd tests; will you not be trying tawlbwrdd 9x9 at any point? Old Welsh laws mentioned a 25-piece game, which isn't too dissimilar to Saami tablut and therefore might play well.
2014-07-06 14:27:30 Hagbard: I didn't know there was a tawlbwrdd 9x9; it would be Saami without a throne?
2014-07-07 06:25:49 cyningstan: Basically yes, Hagbard. If the lack of throne makes little difference to the balance, then it would make it a lovely, simple and elegant version to teach beginners. And reasonably authentic too.
2014-07-10 15:22:29 crust: The English National Hnefatafl Championship 2014 will take place at Sutton Hoo Suffolk, UK) on Sunday 10th August, starting at 10:30 a.m. Fetlar rule-set. The day before will be practice, and other saxon/viking games and activities will be going on the whole weekend. I'll be there to teach anyone who needs it!
2014-07-11 13:10:07 Hagbard: No Fetlar date yet, and they use to publish the date already in June.
2014-07-11 13:13:01 Hagbard: Tromsø will be 7th August, and our internet tournament will be in September, I presume.
2014-07-12 04:01:52 altti: what rule set will we be playing in our tournament
2014-07-12 09:26:23 Hagbard: I believe it will be the Copenhagen.
2014-07-13 12:54:38 crust: Fetlar World Quickplay Hnefatafl Championship is cancelled again, owing to fluctuating health of the organizer. Best wishes to Peter Kelly for better health in the near future.
2014-07-13 14:07:17 Hagbard: So Tromsø with participants from the whole world would sort of be the World Championship of this year?
2014-07-13 19:27:11 crust: It's probably the only tournament that comes close to being that.
2014-07-15 13:56:42 crust: Anyone know what rule set they will be using in Tromso?
2014-07-16 06:45:38 cyningstan: As of late last year, they hadn't decided between Fetlar and Copenhagen. I haven't heard anything since.
2014-07-18 03:15:50 crust: Thanks, cyningstan! I've sent you some comments on your copenhagen leaflet, I hope you got them :)
2014-07-18 09:26:45 cyningstan: Thanks crust, I've got them and made the corrections to the Copenhagen leaflet now.
2014-07-28 21:23:54 HELFRICH: Hello. Can you clarify which board variation/rules set will be used for the championship tourney on this site? Thanks.
2014-07-28 22:59:05 Hagbard: If general agreement, Copenhagen Hnefatafl 11x11.
2014-07-28 23:29:46 crust: Copenhagen please!
2014-07-29 14:51:28 vonraider: Copenhagen
2014-07-29 15:23:23 HELFRICH: I am relatively new here at this site and I find Copenhagen to have the best balance. Copenhagen please.
2014-08-01 14:08:01 crust: Just a quick reminder: One week to go till English National Hnefatafl Championship Sunday 10th August 10:30 a.m. start. Venue, Sutton Hoo Saxon archaeological site, Woodbridge, Suffolk UK.
2014-08-02 13:34:04 crust: I see "replay" buttons have appeared on games list. Great!! All we need now is a way to get from the replay to the game itself, when we're ready to make a move (withouy exiting and having to log in again)... Is that going to be possible?
2014-08-02 13:40:35 Hagbard: No problem: the replay opens its own window, so that the games list is undisturbed.
2014-08-02 16:18:22 crust: when you have looked at a replay, you have to press "exit" to get out of it, and then you have to log in again. It's a bit cumbersome. Or am I doing something wrong?
2014-08-02 16:41:14 Schachus: For me it works like Hagbard said: A new window/tab opens, so to get out of it, I can just close it and I'm still logged in. I really appreciate the replay buttons, thanks!
2014-08-02 19:09:42 HELFRICH: Congratulations and thanks for the recent changes to the site.
2014-08-02 20:17:40 crust: to Schachus and Hagbard: Oh yes I get it now, it opens a new tab. Instead of pressing "exit" I just close the new tab. Sorry, I'm a bit slow with this stuff ;)
2014-08-03 00:38:14 duruk: thank you for the implementation of easily accessible replays...
2014-08-05 23:27:53 Adam: Just took a look at the current board positions. Lots of great games going on, this really is a vibrant community of players. Should be a great tournament this year, don't forget to sign up people!
2014-08-07 18:14:27 crust: that sounds very sensible... should be a good tournament. I have little doubt that the world's best hnefatafl players are all right here.
2014-08-07 19:14:57 Hagbard: Speaking of members: new players are strongly invited to send some contact information, at least an email address, to our World Tafl Federation chairman Tim Millar. Tim's email address is anomalocharis AT hotmail DOT com
2014-08-07 20:44:58 crust: yes, so far we are little more than a list of names. We should have some discussion about where we want the World Tafl Federation to go. The Tromso hnefatafl tournament was today, I hope we will hear from Frank Prohl how it went.
2014-08-08 18:28:51 crust: OK folks I'm off to Suffolk for the hnefatafl tournament; I won't be able to do any moves till I get back. See you in a few days ;)
2014-08-08 20:49:01 Hagbard: Good luck with the Suffolk tournament!
2014-08-08 21:36:26 Patterson: Good luck at the tournament.
2014-08-09 01:18:00 vonraider: Good Luck!
2014-08-09 20:34:08 Plantagenêt: Does the Suffolk tournament use the Copenhagen rules?
2014-08-10 02:54:59 nath: Huge thanks to Hagbard for his improvements on this site! I looking forwards to your growing community playing here!
2014-08-11 00:10:08 crust: Thanks all! English National Championship was won by Tim Bullen, a player from Formby in norhern England - they have a hnefatafl club there! Runner-up was Pete Jennings (last year's winner). Rules were Fetlar this year, but will likely be Copenhagen next year.
2014-08-11 00:24:36 crust: There were several other very good players there, including Arthur who has just started playing here too
2014-08-11 00:57:50 crust: to Hagbard: has there been a change of board colours? Fetlar appears to have a brown board now
2014-08-11 01:05:37 Hagbard: It's ochre; matches better the game piece colors.
2014-08-11 13:57:55 Hagbard: Congratulations with the completed Sutton Hoo tournament! These are the first news from a tafl tournament 2014. Congratulations to Tim Bullen for the win, and welcome to Arthur to this site. As for the coming internet tournament, 18 players signed up till now: duruk, ragnar76, fairland, altti, Patterson, crust, HELFRICH, Arevidar, vonraider, Schachus, Plantagenêt, duhawk93, nath, Adam, Unterwichtel, arthur, ynof, Watson
2014-08-11 19:33:43 Hagbard: Any tafl information from Tromsø?
2014-08-12 12:47:29 altti: I prefer sharing the victory. I'm in good company. ☺
2014-08-13 13:36:02 thegameterrorist: ok, logged in now...thank you. question about the tournament, are computers allowed ?
2014-08-13 13:36:43 thegameterrorist: because i'm writing an app for 11x11 and would love to test it vs humans
2014-08-13 13:43:13 Hagbard: @thegameterrorist: I would say the computer can be allowed; and I'd say, too, that it cannot win against humans! Other opinions on this?
2014-08-13 13:45:46 thegameterrorist: @hagbard: yes, i think hnefatafl is quite hard for computers (just as go is)...but i'd love to test my programm...i'll create a different account for it if that's ok
2014-08-13 14:00:29 Hagbard: A different account for the computer is ok
2014-08-13 14:04:15 Hagbard: As for the computer program, notice that the tournament rules are Copenhagen, with shieldwall capture, edge win fort, eternal repeating forbidden etc.
2014-08-13 14:04:33 Watson: hi, is it true that the Copenhagen rules are preferred (to avoid draw forts)?
2014-08-13 14:06:58 thegameterrorist: yeah, about the rules...i noticed. let's see if i can adept my program quickly to the new rules. btw, is there a bug in the online version here ? i thought capturing the king on the sideline is not possible ???
2014-08-13 14:11:44 Hagbard: @thegameterrorist: the online computer opponent on this site was written a long time ago, and in that old version the king can be captured on the sideline
2014-08-13 14:14:54 thegameterrorist: ok, i see. maybe i'll first adempt my program to use those rules and test it against it. also playing white it's pretty easy to beat. i don't think it should be included for the rating
2014-08-13 14:16:24 Hagbard: @Watson: looks like experienced players here more often prefer the Copenhagen rules, without draw forts; but for new players the Fetlar rules are simpler and still almost the same
2014-08-13 14:49:43 crust: English National Championships going over to Copenhagen rules next year, they really add a lot for experienced players, but Fetlar still a good game and a good starting point for beginners. Might keep fetlar going for junior championships
2014-08-13 14:53:53 crust: I'd love to try against thegameterrorist's computer, but maybe not as part of the championship tournament?
2014-08-13 17:50:05 HELFRICH: Computer as a player is intriguing, however I would prefer the tournament to be played with the human factor only. Computer as a player on this site is OK and i suspect there is nothing we can do to stop the guy from using the computer for his own use and moves. It is the kind of thing that ruins a site like this.
2014-08-13 21:51:41 Hagbard: No news from Tromsø?
2014-08-14 10:32:34 thegameterrorist: @HELFRICH: no worries. i will not use it for my own games. If it enters (and it doesn't seem like it right now; because it's working with different rules and is far from ready) it will be using a different account which will be marked as PC or engine or whatever
2014-08-14 19:39:20 crust: "stern" vikings are the ones who always sit at the back of the boat lol
2014-08-17 19:39:35 crust: so everyone plays 8 matches each in the preliminary round, then the best scorers from that play 14 matches each in the final round, but the lower scorers play 22 matches in the final round? That seems unbalanced, if I've understood it correctly. Also, it's a LOT of matches
2014-08-18 19:30:56 Schachus: Basically, I was saying, that group 1 is too strong in your proposals and the last one too weak. You should alternate the dirction of putting the stronger players, like this:
2014-08-18 19:33:30 Schachus: gr1:1,8,9,16... gr2:2,7,10,15... gr3:3,6,11,14... gr4:4,5,12,13... or with 3 groups: gr1:1,6,7,12,13,18... gr2:2,5,8,11,14,17... gr3:3,4,9,10,15,16... (there are even better soloutions, see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thue%E2%80%93Morse_sequence)
2014-08-18 20:13:15 Hagbard: Very interesting! If the Thue–Morse sequence determines the direction, it is down, up, up, down, up, down, down, up, etc. The grand, yearly internet championship tournament serves three purposes, I can think of: 1) Find the strongest player of this year, the champion. 2) The final round is a great opportunity for everybody to meet their equals, opponents of similar strength. 3) The game and the rules are thoroughly tested, and new strategic subtleties are often discovered. There's room for more players, and all participants have a tournament result in the end: a score of points and a position. With 4 initial groups again, with the Thue–Morse sequence it would go: Preliminary round, 1 day average per move: group 1: nath, AreVidar, docbullen, fairland, scottdbarber, unknown1. group 2: duhawk93, Schachus, Unterwichtel, ynof, Patterson, unknown2. group 3: Adam, crust, HELFRICH, thegameterrorist, arthur, unknown3. group 4: altti, Plantagenêt, vonraider, ragnar76, duruk, unknown4. Final round, 2 days average per move: group 1: 2 winners from each of above groups, 8 in all. Two more final groups divided by rating: group 2: 8 players. group 3: 8 players. (games already done in round 1 are not repeated, but the results from round 1 are used).
2014-08-18 23:57:56 crust: ok, my head hurts now from looking up the Thue-Morse sequence. Hagbard, your care and diligence in setting up this tournament is much appreciated
2014-08-19 10:52:37 crust: World Tafl Federation now has a facebook page; if you feel so inclined, swing by some time. Also, please contribute; anything to do with tafl games of course, but especially anything on tournaments, clubs and societies. Thanks!
2014-08-19 22:26:25 Adam: This community is nothing if not thorough!
2014-08-21 20:30:46 HELFRICH: Thue–Morse sequence. I looked it up on wikipedia and if anyone can translate this techno-babble into an understandable example it would be greatly appreciated.
2014-08-21 21:07:54 HELFRICH: Thue–Morse sequence. Can someone provide an example using numerical rankings instead of names such as in a four group 16 player allocation: group 1 is: 1 vs 16; 5 vs 12; etc. Thanks. Trying to understand this.
2014-08-22 02:31:07 fairland: Thanks for the change in first round competitors! Now I will be killed instead of slaughtered.
2014-08-22 02:31:53 fairland: That wasn't sarcasm, so you know. I feel like that system makes for a much more evenly matched grouping.
2014-08-22 07:38:08 Hagbard: The idea is simple really: If Ann divorces Bob and they split their belongings, the simplest way is Ann chooses first, then Bob, Ann, Bob etc. (AB AB...). But that is unfair, Ann every time gets the most valuable thing. So better, first Ann chooses first, next Bob chooses first and so on (ABBA ABBA...). But also here Ann starts in every group and gets more good things than Bob, so it's more fair that Ann starts first group, Bob second group etc. (ABBABAAB ABBABAAB...) Same argument, a little bit too good for Ann, more fair that Ann starts first group and Bob starts second group: ABBABAAB BAABABBA and so on with longer and longer strings. Same goes for allocation of players. The allocation of 16 players is group 1: 1, 8, 12, 13 group 2: 2, 7, 11, 14 group 3: 3, 6, 10, 15 group 4: 4, 5, 9, 16
2014-08-22 14:29:36 HELFRICH: Thanks for the clarification, although I could have done without the sarcasm/divorce.
2014-08-22 15:03:56 Hagbard: No sarcasm intended.
2014-08-22 15:50:47 HELFRICH: Thanks again. I was only seeking clarification and the numerical sequence provided satisfied completely.
2014-08-22 18:33:19 altti: ABBA!
2014-08-23 17:19:58 Fairland: Thanks for the clarification, Hagbard! I am terrible with numbers, so a situational explanation really set it out clearly for me.
2014-08-23 17:56:17 crust: Me too. Thanks Hagbard. Though very sorry to hear of Bob and Ann's divorce. ;)
2014-08-23 21:41:50 Adam: Very clear explanation. Waterloo will never be the same again.
2014-08-23 22:20:17 Hagbard: :)
2014-08-25 16:50:06 Hagbard: Good news: Tim Millar (crust) has accepted to be the umpire of the championship tournament. For Millar's games, I'm the umpire (Hagbard).
2014-08-26 17:12:42 HELFRICH: What are the ethics/objections to having multiple entries in the tournament under different identification names?
2014-08-26 19:06:22 crust: to Helfrich: I think it should be strongly discouraged. Is anyone doing this?
2014-08-26 22:34:16 Adam: Yes that would really mess things up. Hopefully hagbard could use IP addresses to prevent that sort of thing? I'd prefer it even if everyone used just one name for playing on the site as it makes for more honest ratings. Which reminds me, any thoughts on separate ratings for each variant? Plus the overall?
2014-08-27 02:16:40 vonraider: Anyone caught using multiple accounts should be tracked down and made to suffer the blood eagle! Or is that too much......
2014-08-27 22:25:41 Adam: So while it dosent affect site statistics, multiple accounts in the tournament would create problems. So I suggest we move from 'strongly discouraged' to 'illegal' And put it in the tournament rules. Anyway, who wants to play against themselves? I've tried it and I always spot my opponents plans.
2014-08-31 08:22:41 Adam: The excitement is mounting! Good luck everyone, I hope everyone manages to play their games to the end.
2014-08-31 12:46:29 crust: Biggest world championship ever!! Have fun, and play nice, everyone; if you don't want to finish a match for whatever reason, it would be better to resign than just to abandon the game, out of respect and consideration for your opponent. Enjoy your games, and post a message here if you encounter a problem. Thanks to Aage for being such an excellent host. To arms!
2014-09-01 08:20:04 Hagbard: Let the games begin!
2014-09-01 11:49:05 Schachus: Just to be clear: 2 Players per group qualify? And their game amongst each other does NOT count in final, does it?
2014-09-01 12:01:54 Hagbard: 2 qualify, and their game amongst each other does count in final.
2014-09-01 12:06:26 Schachus: it does? So I should be careful against Adam...
2014-09-01 17:55:01 crust: dear hagbard, could we all have just a little more info on how this tournament will work? There's a bit of confusion.
2014-09-01 17:58:04 Hagbard: I wrote some more in the green square at top of the tournament page.
2014-09-01 18:04:04 crust: ah yes I see that now, sorry! ;)
2014-09-03 00:05:22 altti: congrats to crust and duhawk. great games!
2014-09-03 08:30:48 crust: thanks altti! (Sea battle tafl tournament is finished; Duhawk93 and I jointly won)
2014-09-04 01:22:20 HELFRICH: The uneven number of players in groups allows the opportunity for more wins but also for more losses! This does not typically provide a problem for the Asgard Eight; but for those of us mere mortals in Midgard or Muspelheim it can make a difference, LOL.
2014-09-09 20:53:38 crust: By the way folks, there are daily updates and occasionally some game commentary (only on completed games of course) on the World Tafl Federation page (link below).
2014-09-11 18:55:41 Hagbard: Keep up the good playing style, Helfrich, and you may have the "Asgård Nine" Valhalla in sight...
2014-09-11 23:03:37 crust: the World Tafl Federation facebook page has just reached 50 "likes"; thank you everybody who has dropped by to have a look :)
2014-09-14 11:36:29 crust: Hagbard, thanks for running this excellent tournament
2014-09-14 12:04:40 Hagbard: Very exciting to follow the games. High quality playing. And thanks for the game analyses on the facebook!
2014-09-14 20:12:06 crust: You're welcome! Apologies to anyone I haven't featured yet :) NO criticism is intended
2014-09-16 16:49:48 HELFRICH: Ahoy! The facebook site set up by crust is very much worth any player's time to review. In addition to the post game analysis provided by him and other experts, it has also developed into a sideshow of putting a face with the name of the player on this site. As a reasonably new player I appreciate his and others efforts to expand the knowledge of the game; and hope for a renaissance of this dark ages game!
2014-09-16 22:42:44 crust: Thanks, Helfrich! There may be a break in posting for a couple of days - I'm away on a job, probably with no internet access :(
2014-09-27 00:33:35 crust: just set up the giant outdoor hnefatafl set again; hopefully will be teaching and playing tomorrow :)
2014-09-27 07:07:45 cyningstan: I've been absent on here for a few weeks, but I'm very excited on seeing a 7x7 board appear in the Current Board Positions. Thanks to crust for highlighting it on Facebook!
2014-09-27 18:18:45 Hagbard: What about a "Fetlar 2" version = Fetlar plus the encirclement rule?
2014-09-27 18:28:32 Hagbard: What about, at October 1st, starting the first round 2 games of "Asgård"? That is those which are possible to start now: Schachus, Adam and Crust completed all their round 1 games and are certain to have qualified for the "Asgård".
2014-09-27 19:07:17 Schachus: Planagenet and Allti are safe in the next round as well, though their game is still running(and maybe also nath, though I'm not sure about the tiebreak rueles in the unlikely case he loses both remaining games). But somehow it would be nicer to start all games at the same time, wouldn't it? Maybe we are lucky and all is settled until oct 1st
2014-09-27 19:09:10 Schachus: sorry Plantagenêt and Altti for the typos in your names
2014-09-27 20:10:17 crust: personally I would rather wait until all preliminary games are finished, before anyone starts the next round. I'm not in so much of a hurry to get annihilated lol :) No it's just that I think it would be more companionable. I don't really see the need to change Fetlar rules - I think we should keep them as they are. Copenhagen rules are already the improved version of Fetlar.
2014-09-27 23:40:29 Hagbard: We'll wait and see then.
2014-09-28 17:14:26 Hagbard: @Schachus: Duhawk93 is also safe in the next round (Asgård), but has still games running. Notice that there'll also be a Midgård and an Udgård next round for all players not in Asgård.
2014-09-28 18:34:18 Schachus: What do these words mean?(Asgård,Midgård,Udgård). Is seems to be some kind of name for A-Final,B-Final,C-Final?
2014-09-28 18:59:18 Hagbard: That's right. The names are from Nordic mythology. Home of Aser, home of humans and home of jætter (giants).
2014-09-28 19:14:29 HELFRICH: I am delighted to see the use of the terminology: Asgård, Midgård, Udgård. Bringing the Norse lore into use on the site is excellent.
2014-09-28 19:15:25 Hagbard: - inspired from Helfrich, who started the talk of Asgard and Midgard.
2014-09-28 19:17:13 HELFRICH: Thanks for the credit nod ;-]
2014-10-02 17:33:02 Fairland: And how are the Midgard and Uttgard tournaments going to work?
2014-10-03 16:05:21 Schachus: maybe we could start next round, when all participants are safe, so after nath's games with helfrich and docbullen are finished (not wait for the other 4 games, if they take longer)?
2014-10-04 00:47:22 HELFRICH: I'm 67 years old and was hoping to live to see the end of the tournament, LOL.
2014-10-04 12:03:57 altti: ready for the final ☺
2014-10-07 13:17:22 altti: I concur
2014-10-07 14:03:11 Fairland: Yes! Let's get this going!
2014-10-07 17:09:27 Schachus: I'm in
2014-10-07 19:48:23 crust: ok. Unless anyone has strong objections, let's go ahead
2014-10-08 16:35:34 HELFRICH: Helfrich just resigned! On to round 2 please!
2014-10-08 17:30:08 HELFRICH: Nath is in the Asgård regardless of the outcome of the last game he is playing. So is docbullen. Helfrich is in limbo between Asgård and Midgård and I do not mind waiting to be placed pending the outcome of the final match in the group.
2014-10-08 19:19:57 nath: I don't mind one game more or less. The difficult thing is the state of Helfrich, but I wouldn't mind to continue at Friday.
2014-10-08 19:58:03 HELFRICH: I have no problem with waiting to be placed in the appropriate group, so do not hold up the tourney on my account.
2014-10-09 02:01:24 crust: anyone else getting weird techno music when they are on this page?
2014-10-09 11:35:28 Schachus: @crust: not me...
2014-10-09 12:01:37 crust: must be some strange glitch, or else my computer has been possessed by techno goblins
2014-10-09 12:21:24 Hagbard: @crust: me neither
2014-10-09 16:14:08 Adam: Crust, I'm guessing its your grandmaster horns picking up the techno music. Weirder and weirder. Good luck in round 2 folks. I know I'm going to need it!!
2014-10-11 18:59:07 crust: Docbullen has now resigned, I presume that means Helfrich joins the Asgard group
2014-10-11 20:29:36 crust: I hope somebody checked him for weapons before they let him in...
2014-10-12 14:57:56 HELFRICH: Awesome to be sitting in Asgard with this assembly of experts and champions. I am humbled to be playing among the best in the world.
2014-10-14 15:28:43 Fairland: During the most recent board meeting at my school (Fairland High School, where I am a teacher) I proposed a hnefatafl club for the High School, to meet once a week after classes. The board approved this club and now my school has (most likely) the first school-recognized hnefatafl club in America!
2014-10-14 15:29:12 Fairland: Also, a true congratulations to Helfrich, you earned it.
2014-10-14 15:41:00 crust: Congratulations Fairland; that is wonderful news! I hope it will be the first of many, but it will always be the first :)
2014-10-18 18:32:46 Schachus: Not much going on in Utgard... Anyway, how come that 4 players from group A went to Utgard and less sofrom the other groups?
2014-10-18 18:36:14 Schachus: Also, the battle for the Championship is really heating up at the moment
2014-10-24 00:17:17 Fairland: Fairland Schools Hnefatafl Club had its first meeting today. A president, voice president, and secretary were nominated. A name was decided upon, and sample games were played to familiarize students with the basic rules. Next week the club will decide on Fetlar or Copenhagen variant to play within the club.
2014-10-24 00:22:56 Hagbard: Congratulations with the club! You could start with Fetlar in any case for practise. Copenhagen can be seen as merely Fetlar plus some extensions.
2014-10-24 00:29:11 crust: Congrats Fairland (both you AND the school) - what name has the club decided on?
2014-10-24 00:46:25 Fairland: Thank you! Yes, we followed (unspoken) Fetlar guidelines today. The name the students decided on was "Fellowship of the Board."
2014-10-24 00:59:20 crust: I like it, it has a nice "Ring" to it.
2014-10-24 01:03:20 Fairland: Indeed. I truly love the name, but there are those who think "little hobbit".
2014-10-24 16:25:54 Schachus: @crust: Nice overview post on facebook :). I was going to say, you are forgetting you own chances, but then I saw you lost 2 games recently, so probably you are not so likely to still get first. I am expecting a battle between nath and plantagenet, but maybe I can try a bit myself. In any case, there is a lot to play for, especially since some people (including myself) play a lot more slowly if they consider their positions to be bad. That way, of course, there are not many early losses, but they might come later..
2014-10-24 18:39:41 crust: to Schachus, Thanks! Yes, I managed to lose two games in one day - never mind. We certainly have some very strong players this year, it's getting really interesting. Good luck, and all the best
2014-10-25 11:22:50 crust: wow - the time-out tsunami has finally hit Udgard!
2014-10-31 20:50:20 Schachus: My time management was really bad. Let's see how I can cope with all the timeout warnungs at a time...
2014-11-02 13:54:39 crust: to Nath: Hope all is well with you, I was sorry to see you time-out. All the best
2014-11-02 19:08:11 Schachus: yes, I was surprised about that timeout, too. I saw he was close to timout yesterday evening and send him an email to warn him, but it seems it was too late.
2014-11-07 20:12:31 Hagbard: The Docbullen/Plantagenêt final game ends up in an interesting "draw fort" position with the king isolated and locked up at one side of the board and rest of the defenders forming a large fort at the opposite side of the board. In Fetlar this position would've been a draw. In the Copenhagen variant, however, this position is a black win, according to rule 10b: "Draw forts are not allowed: If the defenders repeat their board position three times while no piece was captured, the attackers win." A more straightforward wording of rule 10b could've been "If the attackers have contained the defenders, so that it's impossible for the king to neither reach any corner nor form any edge win fort, then the attackers win." The repetitions version of the rule is, however, simpler to detect for the computer, and it's inevitable that when the defenders are contained, they will sooner or later repeat their board position and violate rule 10b.
2014-11-07 20:24:46 Adam: The repetition rule is also essential for avoiding perpetual checking situations of course.
2014-11-07 20:32:46 Adam: mind you, with that rule, the game was over at move 37 when there was no longer any hope of white getting outside the black wall to reduce blacks numbers. Its a tricky one. One could argue that immobilizing the king in an impregnable edge prison is game over. But there is that hope that white could take all the other men, and ultimately break into the prison to free the king. As long as that possibility remains, white should be allowed to play one.
2014-11-08 11:07:41 Schachus: crust, why did you stop analysing games on the facebook page? Would be interesting, now that some of the real top games are finishing.
2014-11-08 13:25:39 crust: to schachus: Yes, good idea.
2014-11-08 20:56:47 Nath: I wasn't at home the weekend. I'm very busy currently. I have a lot of work. I didn't spend to much time in the games this championship. But I'm really happy we have top level games finishing now.
2014-11-08 20:58:13 Nath: I hope we can also find reasons afterward to continue playing against each other. It's enjoyable to play against strong players for me.
2014-11-19 20:25:24 crust: Congratulations to both! And to Patterson who was only one point behind them.
2014-11-27 00:18:23 crust: to Roderich! Hello, great to see you here again!
2014-11-27 08:04:40 Roderich: Thanks crust. Currently I'm trying to get in shape for the next tournament (I'm "Kratzer"). One should not stop playing Tafl ever! Glad to be back.
2014-11-27 08:30:46 crust: I was WONDERING who this Kratzer was... obviously not a beginner! lol
2014-11-29 08:52:32 crust: Peter Kelly, the hnefatafl grand-master who started the world hnefatafl championships in Shetland, has died after a long struggle with cancer. Sincere condolences to Janet and the rest of his family. Peter formulated the "Fetlar rules" of hnefatafl for tournament play, and made several trips to Edinburgh to teach hnefatafl at the National Museum of Scotland. He was also a keen astromomer, bird-watcher and a convivial host. He will be greatly missed.
2014-11-29 12:01:40 Hagbard: My condolences. We've had many fine tournaments with the Fetlar rules, and they are also functioning very well as new players' entrance to the world of tafl.
2014-11-30 12:52:23 altti: beautiful set cyningstan
2014-12-06 20:24:40 crust: congratulations Unterwichtel!
2014-12-07 02:46:14 altti: i have gifted a hnefatafl set with print outs of variant rule sets to the New York Estonian House (Eesti maja). I hope that this will encourage the revelers at the club bar to try their hands at the game of our ancestors. If you are ever in town look it up and drop in to challenge some Estonian vikings! Remember the hanging of King Grim at the hands of the Estonian and Curonian armies c410, and the sacking and burning of Sigtuna 1187, also the ravaging of Danish Lyster by Osilian piratica 1203 ☺
2014-12-07 08:04:35 Hagbard: Listerby in Danish Blekinge was ravaged 1203 by pirates living on Estonian islands Øsel and Dagø (today Saaremaa and Hiiumaa). This was one reason why Danish king Valdemar Sejr attacked and conquered Estonia. And this again is why the name of the Estonian capital today is Tallinn, meaning Castle of the Danes.
2014-12-07 08:11:36 Hagbard: By the way myth has it that the Danish flag Dannebrog fell from the sky during the battle at Tallinn 1219 (then Lyndanisse) and thus became the flag of Denmark. It's also said to be the oldest flag in the world still in use.
2014-12-07 12:34:14 altti: yes, unfortunately for the Danes and the Estonians the German knights of the sword ended up with all the gains by the mid 13th century. Danish hegemony would have been preferable. the Swedes attempted an incursion the following year the Danes took Lyndanisse but were served a crushing defeat at Lihula.
2014-12-10 19:08:55 crust: A big welcome to players from the hnefatafl club in Fairland, Oklahoma!
2014-12-12 14:01:14 crust: well played Unterwichtel!!
2014-12-12 15:43:30 Fairland: The Fairland Hnefatafl club has finished its first tournament! It presented unique challenges based on the "school club" system, but we finished it out and had a great time. Victors among the ranks here at aagenielsen.dk are: Teondrae, First place with all wins. Lance fourth place. and Big Irish, 13th. there were 18 competitors total.
2014-12-12 18:26:10 crust: Thanks for the update and well done Teondrae! Which rule-set did you play?
2014-12-12 22:17:03 Fairland: We used Copenhägen rules. We discussed Fetlar and Copenhägen during the early days of the club and the students voted on Copenhägen.
2014-12-12 22:36:58 Teondrae: Yes thanx lol I learned my skill from you. All those losses taught me a lot :)
2014-12-13 00:16:58 crust: Awesome! Copenhagen is my favourite too. 18 competitors is a pretty good size for a tournament; Well done you Fairlanders, Oklahoma will never be the same again
2014-12-13 09:20:23 Hagbard: Terrific!
2014-12-13 17:45:08 Plantagenêt: What will be the hnefatafl's variant of the new tournament?
2014-12-13 18:08:51 Hagbard: Either Fetlar or Copenhagen, our two defaults.
2014-12-13 21:34:54 sqAree: Wait, if the New Player's Tournament uses Fetlar rules, I want to unregister!
2014-12-14 09:39:26 Hagbard: It's up to the new players. Sounds like it should be Copenhagen.
2014-12-16 15:12:35 Teondrae: I love playing games so everyone challenge me at copanhageon can't spell lol. But yea I've learned a lot from playing crust and others. Thnx for all the new moves I know. :)
2014-12-20 10:06:15 Schachus: I have to agree with SqAree there. The spirit of the rules should be "If white doesnt achieve a win(corner escape/edge fort) it is a black win". Basically, this is what it comes down to, actually, except for very few very special cases, that you discussed and that seem not quite in line with the spirit of the rules anyway. So this change would definitely clarify the rules and make them more accessiable for beginners
2014-12-20 14:04:57 altti: in a tournament game with nath I was left with king and 3 pieces at which point I resigned as I could not break his hold on corners or hope to build a fort.
2014-12-21 07:18:45 Hagbard: Other opinions on the Copenhagen too-few-pieces-on-both-sides draw/black win? I can think of players who would like to abolish yet another draw situation. But if it were to be a black win, how could you make out that you are in such a situation, which no side can win in any ordinary way?
2014-12-21 13:17:30 crust: in chess it's a draw if you get down to just kings, or king and one bishop or king and one knight. Checkmate is impossible for either player, so: a draw. If this is the case in chess, I son't see why this is not o.k. for hnefatafl
2014-12-21 18:33:54 altti: I agree with the draw option if the game is hopelessly stagnated without either player having to break the 3 move repetition, or capable of outright victory.
2014-12-28 18:03:56 Hagbard: A Happy New Year 2015 to all tafl players! And best of luck to the World Tafl Federation, Fairland Schools Hnefatafl Club, Tromsø Tafl Laug, Fetlar Hnefatafl Panel, reenactment groups in all UK and in Tønsberg, the tafl milieu in Berlin and tafl players all over the world! And a wish more for the new year: that the championship tournament 2014 could possibly be finished before the next one starts September 1st 2015...! ;)
2014-12-28 21:46:48 Adam: Hello all, and thank you for the new year greetings Hagbard. Just to throw in my thoughts on this timeout conversation. The idea with the new finite buffer is quite simple, it is so that the timeout is somewhat analagous to a chess clock, in that there ought to be a time pressure, which has a realistic chance of running out. The buffer is there for two main reasons, one, in case you need extra thinking time for a tricky move, and two, if you have a period where you can't get online. And yes, once you are in time pressure, you never get out. Like a chess clock, one is committed to the game, and the clock is ticking. Ever the diplomat though, If Hagbard can and wants to program it, I see no reason why there can't be an option (outside of tournaments) for players who don't want any time pressure, to choose just that, no timeout whatsoever. But this should not be a default setting. The idea of winning back time on your timeout seems rather odd within the chess clock analogy, either time ca
2014-12-28 23:24:51 crust: Thank you Hagbard for your new year's message, I would like to say on behalf of all the players and users of this website, a very happy new year to you too; we appreciate your hard work, creativity, diligence, hospitality and of course friendship. Godt Nytar!
2014-12-29 07:52:02 Hagbard: Adam, what was the last part of your message about timeout? The message was cut off in middle of a sentence.
2014-12-29 21:57:34 Fairland: On behalf of the Fairland Hnefatafl Club, thank you for the New Year's wishes!
2014-12-29 22:00:15 Fairland: On a personal note, I am really excited to see the Brandubh variants being play-tested on the site! I would except Mr. Nielsen's challenge on every one of them, but I am finally starting to play a decent tafl game again and I don't want to ruin that progress with variant testing. :)
2014-12-30 04:29:10 altti: I enjoy the testing and am grateful it does not affect ratings. but keeping the rule sets straight in my head is the difficulty
2014-12-30 04:56:27 Fairland: My problem is dramatic change in strategy. A strategem that works like gold in corner 11X11 is suicide in edge. Using hnefatafl strategy in Brandubh will get you killed, and tablut is deceivingly different than the other two. I used to have a decently high rating here, then I started heavily play testing edge escape, Ard RI and Brandubh and have never been able to play Copenhagen since...
2014-12-30 08:33:50 crust: It would help a lot to have the rules written next to the game board. Not necessarily ALL the rules, but just the variations, e.g."king captured on 2 sides, wins in corner. Throne is friendly to all pieces and the corners hostile to all pieces." It would help to have that right in front of us while playing, especially when testing several variations that differ only slightly.
2014-12-30 11:12:18 Adam: Oops, I think I said something like 'either time can run out or it can't. '
2014-12-30 11:15:34 Adam: @crust: I do just that if I have multiple rule sets running. I open a second window with the rules summary page. But if each games summary could appear on the page margin that might be helpful.
2014-12-30 12:55:07 crust: @Adam: dwimmer-crafty!
2014-12-30 15:42:37 altti: @ Fairland: I think my play has been affected the same way. though I enjoy tablut since I have such good results ☺
2014-12-30 17:48:46 Adam: @Fairland/altti: I think its quite a common problem, and ultimately a reasonable argument for game type specific ratings tables, if just a few rule sets are eventually settled on. I find Aage's colour coded boards help a great deal. When I see a red board the Berserk rules pop right into my head. But I agree, the rule variations can play havoc with ones game at the corners!
2014-12-31 12:26:22 cyningstan: I've just noticed the new brandub variants, and have a bit more time on my hands now so will try to help with the testing. Brandubh-2 is described as the "Damian Walker version" - can I confirm, then, that the king is captured on 2 sides everywhere?
2014-12-31 12:32:20 Hagbard: Brandubh-2 Tablut 7x7 is implemented as described in your rules, that is king captured from 2 sides (except in center as far as I remember)
2014-12-31 12:40:36 cyningstan: If you need 3/4 to capture the king in the centre then it differs from my rules - I use the tawlbwrdd rule where the king is captured on two sides everywhere. Your interpretation might be better, but you might want to remove the "(Damian Walker version)" bit of the description so as to avoid confusion. That's assuming you don't want to alter those rules now that games have been played with them. Brandubh-4 anyone? :-)
2014-12-31 13:07:05 Hagbard: But even without a 3/4 capture in centre, do you then still have the special throne square in your description?
2014-12-31 17:19:20 cyningstan: Yes, the central square is accessible only to the king (who can return there if he wants). Other pieces may pass over it. But it's not hostile to either side.
2015-01-02 08:28:22 cyningstan: My interpretation of the Magpie rules was formerly incorrect. I've found the original source and corrected my leaflet, my print & play and my Java applet. So if you've downloaded my Magpie leaflet as linked to on the Rules page here, then please download it again.
2015-01-02 09:10:50 Hagbard: @cyningstan: Which details were changed? I checked again on your site and it looks like I did start from the updated rules.
2015-01-02 11:25:15 cyningstan: @Hagbard: I had it that a piece could only be captured against a corner square. Having checked Nigel Suckling's (archived) web site, it turns out the centre is hostile too, as in your version.
2015-01-02 11:52:02 crust: Congratulations Schachus! Amazing performance in the 2014 World Championship tournament. Nice to know there are 5 grandmasters again :)
2015-01-02 12:35:59 Hagbard: @nath: The longest ever Copenhagen game with white winner was 195 moves (and next, 187, 184, 161, 156). The longest ever end game with no pieces captured, in a Copenhagen game with white winner was 56 moves (and next, 49, 42). So all too-few-pieces-on-both-sides cases can be covered by the Chess fifty-move rule (in chess, that is 50 white + 50 black moves) something like this: "If no capture has been made in the last 100 moves, then the attackers win." Problem is that we play via the internet, so it could take half a year (180 days) to detect this rule violation.
2015-01-03 10:02:42 Hagbard: After 5 months pause in test tournaments, perhaps we're ready for another one? The "Magpie" game, read more about it on http://tafl.cyningstan.com/download/968/magpie-leaflet It's really a Fetlar game, but the king can walk only one step at a time.
2015-01-04 17:36:31 Adam: @SqAree: copenhagen edge forts are 'exit' forts, draw forts are not allowed in Copenhagen. So the goal of white is for the king to escape, either via a conventional corner exit, or by creating an exit. Blacks goal is to capture the king.
2015-01-07 08:26:03 crust: Hagbard, how about a link from here (or just below this box) to the exact page in the large forum, where issues arising from the 2014 championship tournament can be discussed? At the moment it is complicated to find, and it would be good to gather a range of views.
2015-01-07 10:14:18 cyningstan: @Fairland, Magpie is an older rule set than the brandubh played on here. It was designed for a book "The Leprechaun Companion" published in 1999. The brandubh on here is partially based on my brandub rules from after 2004, with a bit of the reconstructed tablut (post 2010) thrown in. The balance of any of these remains to be seen, but Magpie has enough pedigree to be worth having here. And I'm happy that we have the same variety of 7x7 games as we do for the other board sizes :-)
2015-01-07 14:02:44 sqAree: Has anyone ever thought about suggesting Hnefatafl as an event at the Mind Sports Olympiad? I think this would be a possible way to draw attention to Hnefatafl as a lot of strategic board game fans concentrate there.
2015-01-14 17:32:54 Adam: All Naths points against the new timing system are exactly the same as all my arguments for implementing it... My point being that the time restriction is not there to ensure you have plenty of time to think, its there to ensure you don't take too long. Of course, we all have different lifestyles, so its not a level playing field, but it wouldn't be for any system. If we are to have a 'more time club' we will need a 'more time club rating table'. Think of the timer as an hour glass. When its not your move, the sand stops, when it is your move, the sand runs. At no point should the sand defy gravity and float back to the top.
2015-01-14 20:42:00 Adam: Also, as this is correspondence chess, this isn't really even about thinking time, its about ensuring there is time to respond. The 1.5 days does that. The buffer is really only there in case one is unable to respond for a day here and there. It is not 'thinking time'. Whether a person spends 30 seconds or 30 minutes thinking about their move is up to them. I find it hard to believe people are spending 30 hours or dare i say 300 hours thinking about a move. And if they are, its not really a board game any more, more of a bored game. This all boils down to how many games a person can reasonably commit to at any given time. If you are busy, simply commit to less games.
2015-01-15 00:16:56 altti: in the chess correspondence games I used to play via postcard (before PCs) you had as much time to think as you would like. each player was good enough to get the move done in less than a week and then it took about a week to get it through the mail. in face to face tournaments there is a clock which changes the game to favor more experienced players, as it should be for a tournament. I haven't played chess via PC or in tournaments this century so I don't know what they have implemented. catan website play has a two minute limit per move at which time the other players can elect to remove the delaying player.
2015-01-16 21:36:44 Fairland: I would like to put some cents into that one as well! With the Hnefatafl club, we played Fetlar for a grand total of two days. It was used as the introduction to hnefatafl, but as soon as each member had played at least one sample game as white and one as black, we explained Copenhägen rules and we switched. I left the choice up to the students, but they naturally saw Copenhägen as the superior rule set because of its ability to negate draw forts. From this data, I have concluded that if players are "raised on Copenhägen" they would enjoy the game just as much without any jarring rule changes down the road.
2015-01-16 22:19:56 Hagbard: If Fairland experienced this with a whole class of beginners, then perhaps Copenhagen can as well be the default from start?
2015-01-17 01:04:35 crust: That would be good :)
2015-01-18 16:44:33 nath: I don't mind the idea of having different time formats. But if we want to do so, we shouldn't let this depend on the player but on the game. If two players want a qick fun game I don't see why should forbid that, if they both agree on the time control. I like the idea of custimize the time control of games you offer.
2015-01-27 16:00:46 Adam: Very nice to see. The Tafl games we are settling on as the ones that function well require such different strategy that I think we can expect to see specialists in each game. That certainly seems to be the case here.
2015-01-29 21:54:25 Hagbard: A red-letter day! The Hnefatafl Championship tournament 2014 completed today after 5 months; the last Round 2 game took 112 days. The championship winner, Schachus, won all his games, 16 points, grand slam, full house!
2015-02-01 02:30:51 altti: I don't qualify for the tournament. I would so enjoy it though. my favorite variant. ☺
2015-02-01 06:11:27 Hagbard: @Altti: I know it's your favourite, I found that out myself in many games... Perhaps the new players could be warned af a great white shark in the pool.
2015-02-05 11:48:46 Hagbard: My suggestion to draw the line is: A player who causes more than half of his games to time out.
2015-02-05 19:50:54 Adam: This timeout thing is tricky. I suspect each disqualification case would need to be looked at by a referee. Suppose a strong player is playing 16 games, they win 9 easily, then decide not to continue with the tournament. Resigning or timing out. In the early rounds this should be a disqualification so that the results don't skew the progression.
2015-02-05 19:52:47 Adam: Unlikely situation I admit. But possible.
2015-02-06 04:40:55 sqAree: Half the games seems fine because it's not possible to lose a tournament due to the timeout rule when you actually have won already. About the second timeout case: I don't see the point at all, player A is free to use all his time and it's ONLY player B who caused the timeout.
2015-02-06 06:28:25 Hagbard: A championship tournament rule: "A player who causes more than half of his Round 1 games to time out, cannot proceed to Round 2." would've disqualified DavBerd, arthur, taschenguger, scottdbarber and dansuno from Round 2, which clearly would've been a sane decision.
2015-02-06 10:45:49 crust: To Hagbard: I like the idea of eliminating the worst time-outers, it would streamline the championship tournament.
2015-02-08 12:16:41 crust: Happy birthday to Copenhagen Rules Hnefatafl, three years old on the 2nd February!
2015-02-09 08:05:42 Hagbard: :) ! The forum shows; that was the day.
2015-02-17 10:14:56 Hagbard: To the new players of the Saami tournament: Of course Altti isn't quite a new player but actually our best Saami player. So the real New Player winner of the tournament will of course be no. 2. Perhaps the new players can take the opportunity to be coached a bit by Altti and learn something about how to win the Saami tafl.
2015-03-10 07:06:04 Hagbard: Brandubh: Notice that the king is captured against a corner square by one attacker.
2015-03-10 08:19:49 Hagbard: I've searched for Fidchell rules. Could these be the rules? 7x7 board. 16 attackers against 8 defenders. King unarmed, captured from 4 sides and wins on edge.
2015-03-10 09:06:44 crust: to Hagbard, I have just posted what I have on Fidchell to the World Tafl Federation FB page, but I have to confess, I can't quite remember where I got these rules from.
2015-03-11 02:07:17 altti: the rules need to be CLEAR on variants.
2015-03-11 07:17:13 Hagbard: Brandubh (Tablut corner) 7x7: Same rules as Saami Tablut 9x9, except that the board size is 7x7 and the king wins in corner. NB. The king is captured against a corner square by one attacker.
2015-03-14 03:48:04 Sigurd: @Hagbard: Can you register me for the large forum? My name & email are same as small forum/game login. Registration request was submitted back on 2014/12/27
2015-03-14 06:55:09 Hagbard: @Sigurd: after the web hotel updated to a new php version some time ago, it has not been possible to neither register nor log in to the large forum, but all messages already there can be read. I'm worried that it's too risky to touch the large forum in order to try to repair it. It's safer to some day create a forum2 for new messages.
2015-03-15 14:46:11 crust: To Hagbard; thanks for the separate ratings breakdown by game variant - i knew Adam would be Der Berserkermeister!
2015-03-17 01:35:39 teondrae: Everyone look at me and crust last game on how i won in the last like 2 moves that occurred we were both surprised that could even happen.... Anyone know if thats not suppose to happen or if it is? i got the win somehow.. Confused :(
2015-03-17 01:58:43 crust: Yes, I osted on WTF page about it! It was very funny. Hagbard, please have a quick look and see if you think it's unexpected too; I wonder if we've found a slight problem with the shieldwall subroutine...
2015-03-17 02:01:48 teondrae: lol its a new a trick to be able to beat someone at tafl new stragtdie unraveled hahah.... :)
2015-03-17 02:07:02 crust: *posted
2015-03-17 07:10:25 Hagbard: @teondrae/crust: very amusing! Never saw that one before, but it's supposed to work that way. The white shieldwall men are killed as usual, except the king which must be captured and not killed, and to that he is on the edge where he cannot even be captured (except for cases where all other whites are killed so that white cannot move anymore at all).
2015-03-17 08:29:36 Hagbard: Grand Master Tournament: Nath won!
2015-03-17 08:59:06 crust: Thanks Hagbard; in that case I need to re-write my section on shieldwalling. It's worth losing a game, to learn this!! :)
2015-03-17 14:14:39 altti: that's good to know. ill need to keep that move in mind.
2015-03-17 16:12:32 Fairland: What a strategy!!! Although implementing it would be difficult unless the opponent forgets about the rule. I will let my Tafl club members know about this. They have also been play testing a Copenhagen amendment proposes by plantagenêt, but I will let him explain it to you so I don't mess it up.
2015-03-17 17:36:13 teondrae: Since i came up with this move can i name it? Ive always wanted to name something unique?? Like the Guotine is awesome name if i spelled it right hahah. But yeah am i able to name that move??
2015-03-17 20:19:23 crust: I'm not convinced either of us came up with it, also I'm not convinced it IS a strategy, or even a tactic - just an unusual instance of the shieldwall attack. Come up with an opening, a gambit, or a defence we haven't seen much before, describe it, and you might get to name that :)
2015-03-17 21:38:12 Hagbard: Board games are a very classic mind excercise and recreation, known through all human existence from prehistoric times. It can, however, be a great challenge to catch the attention of modern time humans, especially young people, today in the age of high speed video games and the abundance of entertainment in TV and elsewhere, I imagine. But I may be wrong.
2015-03-17 22:44:33 crust: Completed two games of Fidchell with Test3, both easy victories for black. I strongly suspect the game is unbalanced in favour of black, with so many pieces on a 7x7 board. Possibly arming the king might help.
2015-03-17 23:39:41 Hagbard: I had the same experience with Fidchell. But are these not the rules which are found around at various sources?
2015-03-18 01:34:00 crust: Yes I think so... but not much evidence that they have been play tested. Black starts the game with a near-complete encirclement, and controls so much of the edge already, that htey would have to play very badly indeed to lose. Would it be worthwhile and/or possible to try with an armed king?
2015-03-18 09:35:19 Adam: I agree with Crust about the Fidchell. A fully armed king with 4 side king capture and edge escape might make an entertaining game. Certainly worth a try. But its a busy board!
2015-03-18 13:03:54 Adam: @Hagbard - that's a convincing argument. I think newcomers enjoy a few games against the computer to see if they like the game. Entering into a correspondence game is frankly a dreadful way to learn if one has never even tried it before. Any chance of posting the fix so that people are able to try against the computer more easily?
2015-03-18 17:39:28 Adam: @teondrae: I think naming the shield wall fail is a great idea. We still haven't established any rules for such naming, so make a suggestion and see if it sticks. 'crusts bane' springs to mind.
2015-03-18 19:16:22 crust: my suggestion: "The Gorge of Infinite Peril"
2015-03-19 15:20:01 crust: special series on Shieldwalling, including explosive new discoveries, starting on the World Tafl Federation facebook page
2015-03-20 08:29:53 Adam: It seems picture files posted in the forum have vanished.?
2015-03-20 14:08:47 crust: Also one of my comments has been attributed to Adam. Luckily it wasn't one of my silly ones.
2015-03-20 14:11:18 Hagbard: which is the first unquoted sentence?
2015-03-20 14:52:42 crust: I haven't been through the whole lot, but I did notice that the first comment in the "Hnefatafl and the quest for balance" thread (under "Other") was attributed to Adam. And I'm certain it was me. ;)
2015-03-20 15:00:28 Hagbard: Corrected. Just below is a link to the full contents of the old forum.
2015-03-20 15:01:43 crust: To Hagbard: Great! That's another beer I owe you!
2015-03-20 19:06:08 Hagbard: About forum attachments: sorry, I've searched everywhere. I hope the authors still have them, then they can be re-added to the messages.
2015-03-20 19:41:08 Sigurd: @Hagbard: Can the email notification be changed to include notifications for new started games?
2015-03-20 22:04:54 Teondrae: I want Fairland to also sign up for the USA tournament.. He taught me this and i wanna see our ranks :)
2015-03-21 07:04:44 Hagbard: About old forum: if you miss some notes very much, let me know, they can still be transferred to the new forum.
2015-03-21 07:11:39 Hagbard: @Sigurd: on the todo list.
2015-03-21 23:26:24 sqAree: It's good that white can create the fort after shieldwalling.. This way we have a nice connection between edge fort and shieldwalling and I don't think it's imbalanced.. I was just questioning the part about a shieldwall capture capturing only some pieces of the bracketed ones.. Not really consistent imho. And of no use really.
2015-03-21 23:37:22 Hagbard: All shieldwalled pieces are killed - with a single exception: the king. The king cannot be killed, only captured. And captured is: 4 attackers in the king's 4 neighbouring squares. In other cases where the king plus some of his men are surrounded, he is also not captured. Only when surrounded on neighbouring squares.
2015-03-21 23:45:42 Hagbard: Also, the shieldwall rule is not our invention. It's described in a German Hnefatafl site, and it's also mentioned in a scientific article on an artificial intelligence project using Hnefatafl as a study case. We just added this small change to the rule, that a forbidden square can take part in the capture.
2015-03-22 01:31:44 crust: I'm happy for the shieldwall rules t stay as they are; it's funny that I made a wrong assumption about them in this rare case, but in fact Hagbard knew better.. I think you could logically justify either outcome of a mixed shieldwall group (either none of the pieces are captured, or just the warriors and not the king are captured); and I quite agree that this needs to be stated in the rules. It sounds like nobody else has encountered this situation before, so clearly we haven't seen everything yet. As to the other question, whether it's ok to go directly from shieldwalling to winning edge fort, I say why not? It's not as easy as you might think; black usually has some way of preventing the fort, if he takes precautions early enough.
2015-03-22 02:21:58 altti: we've been playing Copenhagen for a few years now and it was always a question of balance. it has come to be close to balanced but the test is far from complete as number of games hasn't come near to a statistically solid representation. Nath is our resident mathematician perhaps he could expound on this.
2015-03-22 10:45:04 xerxes: Ref the Shieldwall discussion: What happened does seem logical to me - the Shieldwall has been correctly set-up, but the King cannot be captured unless surrounded, which in this case he is not. One other interesting point is that had Crust not been so philanthropic in continuing with the move, rather than backing out and making a different one, we wouldn't have the example to discuss, so firstly, 'hats off' to Crust. Secondly, this is a good example of something that has been bothering me about the online game, in that the player making a move sees the result of it before they finalise it - ie pieces that would be captured are shown being taken before 'send move' is selected; in a face-to-face game the player would have to make the move, then remove the pieces they thought they was allowed to capture (as in real chess), and having made the move would not be able to back out if they had misunderstood the result of the move they had made. So, in this case, Crust made a move without fully realising the consequences, but could have changed it after he realised his mistake - that wouldn't be allowed to happen in a face-to face game.
2015-03-22 11:13:55 Hagbard: sqAree and Sigurd won the new players' Copenhagen Hnefatafl tournament! (both 23 points out of 24 possible)
2015-03-22 12:18:01 crust: Congratulations both Sigurd and sqAree!
2015-03-23 20:15:41 Adam: I see no reason to alter the shield wall rule, but by all means it and other rules can be written more clearly to avoid confusions. The copehnahegn rules are a good many years younger than football's offside rule which still cause confusion for many.
2015-03-31 11:37:50 Adam: Now posted in the 'big' forum - my proposal for berserk alea. Please take a look, comments and thoughts welcome!
2015-04-10 09:24:04 Hagbard: The Italians want an Italian National Hnefatafl Tournament, too, it's started now. UK and Germany are big tafl countries, but the World Champion is already German, and the UK National Champion is already found at Sutton Hoo.
2015-04-10 10:56:05 xerxes: Problem with Sutton Hoo for the UK Championship is that not everyone can get there. At east an on-line championship gives everyone a chance to enter. I wondered whether a championship comprising of two formats, say Copenhagen and Saami, with the scores added together, would work ?
2015-04-10 15:04:01 crust: we could have a UK on-line championship too; why not? The more tournaments, the better! Also, how about a tafl triathlon, with each participant competing in 3 events, (e.g. copenhagen, saami tablut and brandub?)
2015-04-10 15:30:48 Hagbard: I believe that the UK is not big enough for two National Champions! But that's just my opinion. I like the triathlon idea, and xerxes' and Crust's choice of variants. The Saami is very historically correct, from our investigations. Brandbubh is very promising, too. Copenhagen is the popular strong king game with a few details polished up. So far we still have no obvious choice of Sea Battle.
2015-04-10 15:43:54 crust: maybe one of the three events should feature the unarmed king
2015-04-10 15:51:57 Hagbard: Most promising Sea Battle at the moment seems to be Sea battle tafl 13x13 (David Parlett setup). The balance looks fine, but it has so far been tested only by Crust, against many opponents. From my experience, when Crust tests a variant, it turns out to be well balanced - reason is that Crust wins as white as well as black in any game... ;) (joking)
2015-04-10 15:56:55 Hagbard: - if Sea Battle is one of the three, then I suggest that it replaces the Copenhagen, so that it's a triathlon of "other variants".
2015-04-10 16:14:32 crust: yes that would be a great idea, with Parlett Sea Battle 13x13, saami tablut and brandub we've got 3 different board sizes and 3 different kings (unarmed/4 side capture/edge, armed/2 side capture/edge and armed/2-side capture/corner). Worth a try! I am very fond of the parlett sea-battle 13x13, so I am probably biased :)
2015-04-18 11:19:37 crust: uh-oh... Duhawk93 and Tonythebook have joined... now I'm scared...
2015-05-03 12:56:53 cyningstan: Am I misreading the measured tafl balance table, or is Brandubh placed out of order?
2015-05-03 17:10:41 Fairland: I am just going to throw my support in for the tafl triathalon! I am not playing in it because-as those who play me know- I am focusing exclusively on Copenhägen tafl to lock in and perfect my strategy. But I do think it is an epic idea and I can't wait to follow it!
2015-05-03 17:17:54 Hagbard: @Cyningstan: Brandubh balance will be recalculated soon, now that the test tournament is completed. As for the triathlon, it's awaiting a little bit longer, not to disturb the important USA and Italian tournaments which have still many games running.
2015-05-03 20:44:25 Adam: Interesting. Am I right in understanding Copenhagen to slightly favour white wins? I only ask because I have heard two of our strongest players declare that Copenhagen favours black. Could we see a statistic for Copenhagen games between the top six players, maybe excluding their earliest games to allow for beginners errors?
2015-05-03 21:01:30 Hagbard: It's already clear that in games between top players rated above 1600, the Copenhagen balance is measured as +1.37. That is, a slight favouring of white.
2015-05-04 22:59:39 Adam: @Crust: better than chess! (average 1.17), but then 66 games isn't a huge sample. A very promising start though for a worthy 7x7 variant.
2015-05-04 23:44:34 Adam: Oops. Quite right, I was looking at the wrong column! Well that is very impressive game balance.
2015-05-08 19:08:11 Plantagenêt: @Hagbard: But there's a big problem... Copenhagen version isn't balanced enough for white! That's why I propose this version... and even...I don't find my own version's offer balanced enough but I can be satisfied with this one (the new version's offer).
2015-05-08 19:26:03 crust: just been looking at archived games of schachus, crust, plantagenet and Nath (top 4 players), with the following results: Plantagenet v Schachus 3:4 (black wins:white wins) Plantagenet v Nath 4:2 Schachus v Nath 3:7 Schachus v crust 4:6 Crust v Nath 15:10 Crust v Plantagenet 8:7 Total 37:36 (black wins: white wins). Can anybody tell me what the problem is? Looks fairly well balanced to me.
2015-05-08 19:41:56 Adam: Interesting. That's fits well with what the larger statistics hint at, where we see white having a greater advantage, 1.43, when all full copenhagen matches are counted, and less of an advantage, 1.36, for stronger players full matches. Taking the top 4 players, its very few games, but 37:36 is as near to 1 (perfect balance) as makes no odds. It's conceivable that if everyone was as good as plantagenet, or if lots of clones of plantagenent played a tournament, that black might be slightly favoured. But presumably some of the plantagenets would develop new white strategies to cope. And I hope that sounds absurd, because my point is that game balance cannot ever be based on one players experience.
2015-05-10 00:19:29 crust: Having said that, if it turns out that there is a problem in the game balance, I would welcome suggestions such as Plantagenet's as to how to fix it. We all know that the game balance changes as players improve their skills, and nobody disputes the fact that Plantagenet plays at the highest level of skill. So there certainly could be something I'm not seeing. However, if white is so disadvantaged, why does this not appear in the game results?
2015-05-10 02:39:29 altti: I like the option of trying a new variant. it wont replace the existing Copenhagen rule set.
2015-05-11 20:56:39 Adam: I like the expression 'if it isn't broken, don't fix it'. We should continue playing it as it is, all of us learning by challenging stronger players, until any imbalance in favour of black reveals itself in the stats.
2015-05-14 09:43:23 xerxes: I agree with Adam. There are a lot of variants now, and it would be worth letting them settle down and seeing what is popular and where there is a real (significant) imbalance. Besides, in the tournaments we tend to play a game as white and a game as black, so if one colour does have an advantage it encourages we weaker players to think that on occasion we just might get a point off a stronger player!
2015-05-15 14:33:18 Hagbard: Triathlon: players who time out in more than half of their games, do not continue to the next level.
2015-05-19 11:14:49 Hagbard: We have a USA National Champion 2015: "Altti", New York, USA. No. 2 etc. are still indefinite.
2015-05-19 14:50:35 crust: Congratulations Altti!
2015-05-20 19:00:53 Fairland: Congrats Altti!
2015-05-22 02:21:15 Fairland: I think a few surprise losses on Altti's part more than offset that advantage. Altti clearly wins because he is a superior player and I say a well deserved Hnefatafl champion of these United States! 🏆
2015-05-23 17:29:54 Chuck Ward: It was fun!!! Had a blast and it really helped me learn Copenhagen rules.. I felt really dumb about some of the mistakes I made with not knowing such rules., But like I said the tournament was fun Congratulations Atti
2015-05-29 15:14:15 crust: I guess Brandub is unusual because it's the only corner tafl variant with the king captured on 2 sides, so that danger for the king is unique to Brandub. That's why it might be worth mentioning on the same page as the board, especially for casual players or those with a lot of different versions on the go simultaneously
2015-05-29 21:19:27 Adam: No harm in having a reminder. But its pretty logical, two man king capture means capture against a corner square with one man. Berserk is the same when capturing with a commander as the king can be captured by two commanders. Though in both cases I believe the the centre throne cannot be used to capture against with a single warrior/commander.
2015-05-29 21:26:14 Adam: @Hagbard - just checking, as per berserk rule 11, the king cannot be captured even by two commanders while adjacent to the throne, correct?
2015-05-31 09:26:35 Hagbard: We have an Italian National Hnefatafl Champion 2015: Epoc!
2015-05-31 09:58:08 Fairland: Complementi epoc!
2015-05-31 21:41:55 fairland: My wife had our second baby yesterday. A new future tafl player to be sure!
2015-05-31 22:54:39 Hagbard: Congratulations with the new member of the family, Fairland! Very lucky that you're not in the triathlon, a busy time ahead elsewhere.
2015-05-31 23:21:55 crust: congratulations Fairland (and Mrs. Fairland) on the baby!
2015-06-01 04:22:34 altti: congrats Fairland and the Mrs. and Epoc
2015-06-01 17:58:27 xerxes: Congratulations Fairland and Mrs Fairland. I hope you have started work on a mini-tafl board !
2015-06-05 03:08:18 altti: will the second event of the triathilon be starting soon?
2015-06-07 10:42:06 crust: yeeha
2015-06-07 20:33:09 Adam: So, Copenhagen stats show clearly that the game is remarkably well balanced over a large number of games (over 2000 games, with 500+ games between experienced players), showing a slight advantage to white which diminishes with player experience, but white maintains an advantage in the stats. This new version adds to whites advantage. Can Plantagenet explain the logic in disadvantaging black and making the game rules more complicated, beyond it being for more balanced for Plantagenet vs Plantagenet games? Very curious to hear the reasoning.
2015-06-07 20:33:46 Adam: by the way, please correct me if I have not understood the game balance page!
2015-06-10 09:11:44 Hagbard: To new tafl players: please consider to send your email address to our World Tafl Federation chairman Tim Millar on anomalocharis AT hotmail DOT com , so that we have some contact information other than just an anonymous alias here.
2015-06-10 09:37:08 crust: yes, most of us have no problem being identified by name e.g. (crust = Tim Millar) and although I respect the decision of those who prefer to remain anonymous, it is frustrating. I think especially in the World Championship tournament, real names should be given.
2015-06-11 18:15:44 crust: I lost a game to Epoc and another to Animals. Also I see Altti is very close behind. Could get very interesting in round 2!
2015-06-12 10:42:38 crust: to Hagbard: I just noticed you have added some more rules details on the game page, under the board, such as a warning about the king being captured next to the throne in Brandubh. Good work. Thanks!!
2015-06-12 10:50:27 crust: when I said throne I meant corner :)
2015-06-13 21:06:16 Hagbard: not at all
2015-06-16 09:12:12 Hagbard: On the triathlon: If you want to or have to leave the tournament, you do not have to leave by timing out a lot of games and losing a lot of rating points. There's a simpler way out: you can simply ask to be cancelled from the tournament.
2015-06-21 22:27:53 Hagbard: Just returned from Lejre where the 50th anniversary of Sagnlandet (Land of Legends) was celebrated. Two skilled actors performed the Beowulf Legend which was written in England but takes place in Lejre.
2015-06-21 22:33:19 crust: any tafl activity there?
2015-06-21 22:35:44 Hagbard: I haven't seen any
2015-06-22 17:35:18 Hagbard: Italy National Tournament is completed: 1. Epoc 2. Sybil 3. Tamarisco and Mmagari
2015-06-24 18:28:43 Steiger: Salute!
2015-06-25 02:20:58 sqAree: Will there be a national tournament for Germany?
2015-06-25 07:41:50 Hagbard: If the Germans want one. However, the next world tournament is not far away. If we use the same approach as last year, sign in begins August 1st and the world champion tournament begins September 1st.
2015-06-26 11:08:06 crust: Congratulations to Altti, now the USA tournament is complete. Altti, are you remaining anonymous or may we know your real name? It's nice to know the champions are real people... All the best, crust (Tim Millar)
2015-06-27 06:55:52 altti: sorry to disappoint you crust, but this is my given name.
2015-06-27 10:01:36 Hagbard: Just looked through the archive for all Copenhagen games with Plantagenêt as the one player. Pl. did 173 Copenhagen games and (of course) won almost all of them. Ignoring a few timeouted games, only 22 games were lost: 12 were lost as white, 8 were lost as black, 2 were draws. Calculating a balance from these 22 games alone gives balance = -13/9 = -1.44 (Overall balance from 2374 games and all players is +1.39). From my own experience, when it happens that I hit a row of Copenhagen games where I keep losing often as white, this could often be caused by my playing too routinely and forgetting that white must play very aggressively right from start and all the way, to break through the black lines.
2015-06-27 18:09:30 crust: to Altti, OK mystery man, have it your way :). Schachus also decided to remain anonymous, that's fine too of course, though, yes it is a little disappointing. I wonder if player anonymity will become more of a problem in time, if we want to promote the game. Any thoughts (from anyone) welcome.
2015-06-28 09:52:21 xerxes: One problem is that even if we insist on players giving their real name, we would have no practical way of knowing that they were telling the truth. I (Xerxes) claim to be Steve Lonsdale, but that still may not be my real name ...
2015-06-28 10:20:11 crust: to xerxes: Good point, that is true. Does anyone know how they arrange matters in on-line chess tournaments?
2015-06-28 10:31:09 xerxes: Also, at least one person, and I suspect more, play as more than one handle on here; and I don't know if the locations are verified - what would stop me signing up as a different person, claiming to be from Germany, and entering the German national tournament !
2015-06-28 10:48:15 crust: ...so it was you!!! just kidding. Hagbard could answer the question about locations. None of this matters too much unless we want to take this a bit more seriously, then we'll have to have some way of identifying people I think
2015-06-29 12:58:49 altti: @ crust. would an anglo name satisfy you? Im a Finn with a Finnic name.....
2015-06-29 19:56:07 crust: To Altti: Altti is your whole name? o.k..... I hope I didn't offend :)
2015-06-29 22:55:33 altti: @ crust: sorry for the confusion my last name is Piirsoo.
2015-06-29 23:14:40 crust: To Altti: Thanks! It's nice to know that the USA Champion is Altti Piirsoo. Congratulations again :)
2015-07-01 04:45:31 Fairland: Attn. Friends from the isle of Britain! I got the opportunity to watch several YouTube cuts of the show Speaking our language. I want so bad to get ahold of the entire program on DVD or something, but the only bits I find online are only pieces of the program and they are ridiculously expensive. I wondered if maybe the program is more accessible from the country. Anybody have any input?
2015-07-01 09:19:06 xerxes: Fairland - Try http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00drymv/episodes/guide
2015-07-01 10:24:51 Hagbard: I'll propose that the Hnefatafl World Championship Tournament 2015 is held the same way as last year with a few changes, as outlined here: http://aagenielsen.dk/hnefataflforum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4&p=38#p4 I hope that Tim Millar will be the umpire again?
2015-07-01 14:06:22 crust: to Hagbard: Yes, of course! As long as no-one objects to me umpiring and competing - I won't umpire my own games of course - I hope you will do that Hagbard.
2015-07-01 14:11:59 crust: I would be prepared to create a trophy for 2015 World Hnefatafl Champion. The catch is, that obviously I couldn't send it to the winner without a name and address. How do people feel about this? I don't want to discourage players such as Schachus who may prefer to remain known only by their player-name.
2015-07-01 14:41:27 sqAree: I personally think a trophy would be great. Players who want to remain unknown among this site might send you personally their data, under obligation of secrecy. And if they still don't want.. I don't think it would discourage anyone.
2015-07-01 15:04:33 Hagbard: Yes I could be umpire of crust's games, like last year.
2015-07-01 19:50:51 crust: Thanks sqAree. I thing a trophy would help make our tournament more "real" (as would knowing players' real names, but I understand if some prefer anonymity) - and this is part of raising the profile of hnefatafl internationally, which I would hope is a goal we all support.
2015-07-02 15:41:08 crust: to Xerxes and Animals: One of your Brandubh matches has been featured with analysis on the WTF facebook page, see link below. I hope you don't mind :)
2015-07-02 20:00:06 animals: That's fine by me Crust. I just hope my brother still comes over for Yule!
2015-07-02 21:44:06 crust: to Animals: hehe...maybe I'll manage to cover a game where HE wins, before then :) Shall we see you at Sutton Hoo or Formby, for some REAL games?
2015-07-04 01:36:05 animals: to Crust: Hoping to get to one of them, though I struggle with the larger boards.
2015-07-05 16:44:17 xerxes: Fine by me too Crust - I'm more than happy for you to analyse all my games for me !
2015-07-11 15:55:50 altti: to crust: thank you for posting xerxes game against me it was an immaculate game on his part.
2015-07-11 19:48:03 crust: To Altti: It was a good one. I haven't done all the commentary yet, but working on it. Great game, and thanks for the comment; see you in round 3!
2015-07-12 15:44:05 xerxes: And thanks from me to Crust and Altti !
2015-07-14 21:15:45 Hagbard: I was aboard the grand Oseberg Viking Ship from Tønsberg, Norway, today. It is visiting Roskilde, Denmark, for a week and experimenting with sailing techniques in the fjord.
2015-07-15 08:43:48 Hagbard: Sunday I had the good luck to have a game of Hnefatafl against a French viking in the Land of Legends, Denmark. The French group used a board found in Trondheim, Norway, on one side markings for 9x9 and 11x11 Hnefatafl, and on the reverse side Nine Men's Morris. The French group used the Expomedia rules (Skalk 9x9 and 11x11 as described in the Danish book "Board and Piece, Games in the Iron Age", 1992). The French had obviously experienced some balance issues, because I was asked, which side in my opinion was most likely to win? Also they had tried to use a capture-king-from-4-sides rule. As the community on this site knows, the balance of Expomedia is about -1.73
2015-07-15 09:11:17 crust: sounds like they are going through similar processes to us, and ended up with something like the fetlar rules? Did you take any pictures for the gallery?
2015-07-15 09:32:26 Hagbard: @crust: it was my understanding that they still used the (unbalanced) Skalk rules. When I mentioned the Fetlar island and the king not being captured on the edge, they looked rather uncomprehending. I have some pictures to upload later.
2015-07-15 10:39:04 crust: thanks for the links! I look forward to seeing your pictures
2015-07-16 21:46:51 animals: Will the last round of the triathlon be starting soon? It would be good to finish (most of) the games before the world championship tournament begins.
2015-07-16 21:57:30 Hagbard: It could start tomorrow.
2015-07-16 23:10:42 crust: can't wait - looking forward to it!
2015-07-20 21:29:40 Hagbard: Page about the English National Hnefatafl Championships 2015: http://www.ealdfaeder.org/v03/hnefatafl.html
2015-07-21 08:45:50 crust: When they say "Stockholm rules" they mean Copenhagen
2015-07-21 08:58:56 Hagbard: So no attempts for monstrosity two-move castles in Sutton Hoo...
2015-07-21 09:11:03 crust: that's right, the umpire is very strict on that. And just to be clear, the competition is open to everyone, you don't have to be English! It just happens that the tournament is in England.
2015-07-21 09:20:36 Hagbard: Some day we could maybe consider a Copenhagen minus edge fort win, as the balance +1.40 allows for taking away a priviledge from the king. This would approximate the Copenhagen very much to a standard, making it similar to the 11x11 strong king games described widely on the net in USA and Russia, but still without the shortcomings of those (monstrosity forts, repetitions etc.).
2015-07-21 10:56:07 crust: yes, maybe. Though I would regret that, as I'm having a terrific end-game with Meersburg involving an almost-complete edge fort - I've written before aout how the winning edge fort activates the edge and causes phase transitions in the game-play. But I accept it's hard to convey the concept of winning edge-forts to beginners. Still, maybe it's like castling and the en passant rule in chess - not the first thing you would teach, but a nuance to be introduced after a couple of games
2015-07-21 11:14:25 Hagbard: I think that in our WTF circles we've learnt to appreciate the fun of the edge fort wins and continue to do so, but as an experiment I'll implement a "Copenhagen minus", which will then be more in line with Fetlar, "standard strong king hnefatafls" and everybody in the outside world not familiar with this speciality.
2015-07-21 12:53:33 altti: perhaps the name of that new version could be "Stockholm"?
2015-07-21 12:56:47 Hagbard: :) !
2015-07-21 19:46:01 Hagbard: The Copenhagen Minus is implemented for testing.
2015-07-22 13:02:06 crust: to Hagbard: we tafl-heads know all the rules (mostly) but it's harder for beginners, they need the rules clearly stated; if I can help in any way, please say :)
2015-07-22 13:05:11 Hagbard: ok, thanks
2015-07-22 14:48:01 crust: Thanks to you too! Also for the fabulous photos and links!! Still working my way through them :)
2015-08-02 22:39:59 sqAree: So the World Championship online tournament will be held with these pre-state rules of Copenhagen? :D
2015-08-07 11:17:50 crust: Travelling to Sutton Hoo in eastern England later today, for the English National Championship on Sunday. This year, for the first time, we will be using the Copenhagen rules instead of the Fetlar rules. I expect to be having some long conversations about edge forts and shieldwall attacks... I wish you could all come, but I know you will be there in spirit, my tafl-brothers and sisters :)
2015-08-07 17:55:57 Kratzer: I could translate the Copenhagen rules too, if it hasn't been done yet. Just tell me which text. Greetings, Roderich/Kratzer
2015-08-07 19:30:23 sqAree: Yes, I once offered to translate the rules into German and I will gladly do this. Let me first check out the new wording though. Thanks for considering my essay about the rules by the way. :)
2015-08-08 07:54:22 Hagbard: @crust: Good luck with the Sutton Hoo tournament weekend! @Kratzer and sqAree: thanks to both of you. Let's see if sqAree finds the rules presentation improved and perhaps will translate.
2015-08-10 10:46:29 crust: To Hagbard: Thanks for your good wishes, the tournament at Sutton Hoo went well, and Pete Jennings the former champion from 2013 regained his title, and another trophy for his office! He told me he has lots of awards and cups, etc. for various things, but the hnefatafl trophy is the only one he has out on display. 11-yr old Ollie Wilson won the juniors - that was hard-fought as well
2015-08-10 18:39:02 crust: Yes, congratulations Pete Jennings and Ollie Wilson! That sea-battle game was an expensive loss for me!! :( never mind... I shall try to climb up the pole again :)
2015-08-10 19:47:46 Hagbard: errare humanum est
2015-08-10 21:37:43 crust: glitch identified between user's ears
2015-08-11 11:38:59 Hagbard: So, did many Exit Fort wins and Shieldwall Captures happen at Sutton Hoo?
2015-08-11 13:57:44 crust: I think there was one shieldwall and nearly an exit fort. I photographed some of the games, will try to write them up soon.
2015-08-24 11:23:12 crust: I know I have droned on about this before, but does anyone who is playing in the World championship insist on remaining anonymous, if they were to win? It's just that it would help us (the World Tafl Federation) to raise the profile of hnefatafl, if we actually know WHO the champion is. Any thoughts?
2015-08-24 14:29:08 crust: There's another example. I think anonymity is fine, but when it comes to the world championship, disclosure of real names should be made, even if only in confidence to the organizers of the tournament. Otherwise all sorts of confusions can happen. That's my view but i'd like to hear other opinions. crust (Tim Millar, UK)
2015-08-24 23:53:48 sqAree: For a normal World Championship is would be normal to force every participant to reveal the identity, it's just that this World Championship is played online, i.e. not in person, so some players might not see the need to tell their name (and moreover, no one can be certain about the given identities). Anyway, I'll gladly reveal my identity: Konstantin Jaehne, Berlin, Germany. :)
2015-08-25 01:02:08 crust: Thanks Konstantin! Good luck in the tournament!
2015-08-25 04:07:07 vonraider: It would be good for the legitimacy of the game if people would volunteer their true names, but then again, how could we prove they are who they say they are?
2015-08-25 09:09:59 crust: Good point, Vonraider, and I think "legitimacy" is a good word - that is precisely what as at stake here. For the moment, at least, we would have to take it on trust, I suppose. I'd still prefer a name and a city (or region), to just a player-tag. No disrespect meant, to those players who prefer anonymity.
2015-08-28 10:10:41 crust: seems like fewer players than last year. That's not good! Where are you Nath, Schachus, Plantagenet...? But it's great to see some new names here. You are all very welcome, I hope everyone enjoys the tournament
2015-08-28 10:29:17 crust: I propose naming the first round groups. You know how we named the second-round groups las year, as Asgard, Midgard and Udgard. We can do the same this year, and maybe also name the first round groups, e.g. Thor group, Odin group and Freyja group. Just a thought!
2015-08-28 12:57:26 crust: I like it! Though you might be in trouble if Docbullen is not put in the Fornebei group ;)
2015-08-28 21:58:09 altti: Novgorod, Reval, Osel, Sigtuna, Visby, among others, will feel left out and very sad.
2015-08-28 22:48:22 Hagbard: :) true
2015-08-29 03:47:15 crust: I think it's a great idea Hagbard; just choose three and let the others deal with their grief however they wish!
2015-08-30 18:17:51 Steiger: С Днём Шахтёра меня, тафлеголоые!!!)))
2015-08-30 18:18:36 Steiger: *тафлеголовые*
2015-08-30 18:55:14 Hagbard: С Днём!
2015-08-30 19:38:57 Steiger: Спасибо! :)
2015-09-01 01:22:41 crust: It Has Begun!! Good luck everybody, and enjoy your games!
2015-09-01 08:55:26 Sybil: Thanks!
2015-09-03 02:48:54 crust: Complete move-by-move game analysis of Aluric vs Animals game posted on World Tafl Federation Facebook page, by Crust
2015-09-05 13:01:00 altti: Tomorrow, Sunday Sept 6, Vasa park in Budd lake New Jersey will host a Scandinavian Festival with artisans,re-enactors, vendors, musicians and dancing troupes. I will be bringing a tafl set with me.
2015-09-06 07:41:44 Hagbard: @altti: did you find some tafl players in Vasa Park?
2015-09-06 12:50:17 altti: I attended their midsummer festival and only one inquisitive fellow played. updates to come on this days events.
2015-09-07 00:42:51 altti: An Estonian folk dance troupe was in attendance and I spent most of my time with them so I played one game with the dancers and one with a child. The Vasa organization info booth was interested and may be inviting me to set up a table for future events ☺ I've also been told that the board I gifted to the Estonian house in NY city has been getting some use. I will be attending an art exhibition there on the 18th.
2015-09-07 04:47:58 altti: look out crust I'm inching up on you in ratings ☺
2015-09-07 05:39:28 crust: Thanks for the news Altti - that's good! and you are welcome to overtake me in the ratings, any time :)
2015-09-08 04:55:34 altti: im about to lose a big one. just glad to have broke 2☺☺☺
2015-09-08 09:19:33 crust: Me too! Going down in flames over here ;) never mind. I have photographic proof that I did once get above Plantagenet's rating. Anyway, glad you made it to the 2000s Altti, even if you fall out again, you'll be back
2015-09-10 18:24:24 animals: Congratulations to Crust and Altti in the triathlon.
2015-09-11 00:43:10 crust: Thanks Animals
2015-09-11 05:28:55 altti: thank you and congrats all around. it was a great tourney.
2015-09-11 10:38:57 crust: Congrats Altti, honoured to share the Triathlon first place with you!
2015-09-11 19:47:45 altti: crust I am likewise honoured as I was not expecting to place either 1st or 2nd.
2015-09-15 21:31:15 Adam: Does anyone know where they got the lovely copies of the storhaug pieces from Bergan pictured below in the Land of Legends pictures? They are great!
2015-09-15 21:38:10 Hagbard: The set belonged to a group of French Vikings (Viking market). It was their private set, not for sale.
2015-09-15 22:17:07 Adam: Homemade then? Lovely replica. Not quite the Berserk set up alas, but great to see those pieces on a replica style board too.
2015-09-15 22:50:35 Hagbard: I believe the material was glass. They could be hand made.
2015-09-21 12:44:28 Altti: Funny that in Tafl the victor not the vanquished gets to Valhalla first ☺
2015-09-21 15:12:15 crust: Nice going Altti
2015-09-21 22:10:23 Altti: see you soon crust.
2015-09-21 22:12:49 Altti: looks like crust has it locked on too
2015-09-22 02:27:30 crust: looking forward to it, Altti :)
2015-09-22 06:12:38 fairland: Congratulations to both Crust and Altti on making it to the final rounds! I cant wait to analyze the final match.
2015-09-22 09:05:59 crust: Tnanks Fairlsnd... there will be 4 others in the final round too, that is to say, the top 2 players from each of the three first-round groups go through to the Asgard group, making 6 players. And last year, those who didn't quite make it, played on, to see who would win Midgard group; it is hoped they will do the same this year. Last year's Midgard champion was called Unterwichtel.
2015-09-22 21:07:55 Altti: @ Fairland you are sorely missed in the tournament.
2015-09-23 04:05:47 altti: looks like kratzer and adam have got it too
2015-09-23 04:43:17 fairland: I know this is late, but seeing as how I have been away I have an excuse. Thank you so much for the explanation of the saga oseberg ship! It was very fascinating, and since I don't speak Norwegian it would have been lost on me without explanation. I am also very curious as to where this "Land if Legends" is. Please explain?
2015-09-24 09:45:48 Hagbard: @fairland: An explanation about the Land of Legends is added.
2015-09-24 10:06:13 xerxes: Hagbard - is it possible to change a User Name ? I notice that half the players who have made it to Asgathr have names beginning with 'A', so I would like to change mine for next year ...
2015-09-24 10:46:01 crust: Xerxes, I hope you WILL play next year, even if you change your name to Aardvark :)
2015-09-24 10:55:18 xerxes: I would have played this year, but am away for the next couple of weeks (via Formby on Sat - I understand there is some excitement up there ...).
2015-09-24 11:34:22 crust: xerxes, see you at Formby?? Awesome!
2015-09-24 12:02:25 xerxes: Yes Crust - though Animals and I will have Mrs Animals and Mrs Xerxes with us, so will have to behave ...
2015-09-24 12:21:08 crust: That's great news, I look forward to meeting all of you :)
2015-09-24 12:27:13 Hagbard: @xerxes: :) Perhaps next year we could rename Asgathr into Xasgathr...
2015-09-24 17:17:43 xerxes: :) I like that Hagbard !
2015-09-25 02:52:25 fairland: Thank you very much, Aage!very informative.
2015-09-26 11:28:23 Hagbard: @fairland: I researched some more and expanded a bit on the Land of Legends.
2015-09-27 16:50:50 crust: Just back from Formby Viking fair (UK) where I met up with a good number of players from this site; Apart from me there was Docbullen, Animals, Xerxes, Tonythebook and Herjan (Bainn also dropped in later). It was great to meet up in person, finally, and we even had a mini tournament. I'll send you some pictures Hagbard; wish you could have been there too. Lots of hnefatafl was played, and lots of teaching happened too. Crust
2015-09-27 18:00:21 Hagbard: Good pictures on the facebook. Looks like a fine day!
2015-09-27 18:24:34 crust: Good to see so many of your British friends there Hagbard... Tafl Avengers Assemble!
2015-09-27 18:55:49 Hagbard: So who won Thor's Hammer?
2015-09-27 19:07:01 crust: I'll give you three guesses ;) (It looks very nice on my imaginary mantelpiece; I'll send you a photo of that too)
2015-09-27 20:45:47 Hagbard: I think I have an idea about it. And who won the other years?
2015-09-27 21:36:08 xerxes: Had a great time in Formby. Big thanks to Tonythebook for organising the Tafl and the mini-tournament (Thor's Hammer was a lovely item, wasted on Crust's imaginary mantlepiece). It was good to meet Crust, Docbullen and Herjan too - we should try and have more face-to-face sessions.
2015-09-28 03:58:50 altti: it would be nice to have a tafl assembly in the US too. I have two possible venues. the Estonian house in NYC, and Vasa park in Budd lake NJ during the midsummer and/or scan fest. Sigurd would that be too far for you? perhaps somewhere in Pennsylvania?
2015-09-28 04:57:21 fairland: I think that if a tafl assemby gets started, it should be somewhere in Oklahoma because its in the middle. Besides, Oklahoma is the closest to having a functioning tafl network with a functioning high school tafl club, and an adult club budding at the local college. If that gets going we will begin proposing and establishing tafl clubs all across the state. Unless you guys want to do a "Northeastern" division and we could take "central"
2015-09-28 05:11:14 Sigurd: Western New York / Eastern PA might be good. I've held two tafl tournaments during this past summer for the Asatru community in the Northeast US. Some of the players might be interested. (I'll get around to posting about those tournaments eventually.)
2015-09-28 23:32:00 altti: my apologies. the US is a large country, too large for just one locale to claim as the assembly place for all. I should say that I'm ignorant of where these events are taking place.
2015-09-29 02:44:57 fairland: We are Just getting started. I wasn't offended. There is no reason we couldn't create a coalition. One in the west, one in the east, and one central. I am thrilled that we are developing a tafl circuit in Oklahoma. I would love to see one popping up in New York area!!!
2015-10-03 01:42:30 altti: animals and I are engaged in a tawlbryd game where it could either be a repetition forfeit according to tablut rules or an endless draw as cyningstans rule set omits any mention of repetitions (only stating the victory conditions for either side). encirclement is not an option either.
2015-10-03 08:52:08 Hagbard: The Animals/Altti game position is an interesting white draw fort of Garbo type. Draw forts are only forbidden in the Copenhagen variant. So this game should be a draw.
2015-10-03 09:24:27 crust: In games where draw forts are allowed, the ban on repetitive moves does not apply to the draw fort, which this unquestionably is (of the garbo type). Also White has satisfied the requirement to capture at least 2 black warriors, which was brought in to stop white from having an instant draw with a centre-fort at the beginning of the game. So, looks like a draw to me too. Garbo forts http://www.tim-millar.co.uk/section509308_183656.html
2015-10-08 20:06:57 crust: Hagbard has just passed 2000 games :)
2015-10-09 11:09:57 crust: Re: the Tafl Triathlon: Cheers Altti! Too bad there isn't a trophy; we could have sawn it in half and shared it ... great tournament, Hagbard :)
2015-10-09 13:53:57 altti: congrats Crust. we need to make this an annual event with rotating variants.
2015-10-11 08:30:06 Hagbard: Outcome of Round 1 is still unchanged with the uncertain: Mmagari, Sybil, Sqaree, Epoc. Last year Round 2 was started October 10th. I'll just mention that it is technically possible to start the three Round 2 groups Asgård, Midgård and Udgård already now with the 15 players whose results are known, and then add Mmagari, Sybil, Sqaree and Epoc later as soon as their results are known.
2015-10-11 10:21:50 altti: would these four players object to round 2 beginning?
2015-10-11 10:41:53 xerxes: Ref Triathlon - yes, an annual rotating event with different variants would be good. Perhaps in the spring so it is not too close to World Championship ?
2015-10-14 23:24:12 Hagbard: Mykle completed Round 1. Mmagari goes to Midgård and Sybil goes to Udgård. Uncertain: Sqaree, Epoc. The Udgård group is fully determined and can start tomorrow. Rest of the players could start also, except for the two uncertain. For correspondence games, time is a scarce resource. To get through with this process in good time before Christmas, it would really be a good idea to start all groups tomorrow, in my opinion...
2015-10-15 00:37:34 crust: Those who can start the next round, should start :)
2015-10-15 07:58:56 Hagbard: Thanks. The starting whistle is blown for Round 2!
2015-10-15 11:52:55 xerxes: A bit off-topic, but I wondered if anybody can recommend a good book / guide on the main Viking sites in Europe - places such as Gotland, Aaldborg, Gamla Uppsala. Thanks.
2015-10-16 08:10:52 Epoc: A question. Me and sqaree are still uncertain. But if I lose we'll finish both with 7 points. Same direct point (one loss and One win). What Is sonneborg-berger position?
2015-10-16 09:26:26 Hagbard: If black wins the Epoc/Sqaree game and black also wins the Sybil/Epoc game, then Epoc and Sqaree both won 7 Round 1 points, and both won once against each other, as you said, and the Sonneborn-Berger scores are also the same for the two players. Happened last year as well with Docbullen and Helfrich.
2015-10-16 10:26:44 crust: Good luck in the final round everyone.
2015-10-19 20:09:43 crust: Well done Sqaree and Epoc, it's nice to have 7 in the Asgarthr group!
2015-10-20 01:42:20 sqAree: Thanks! I'm glad to reach Asgarthr in spite of my poor start in the tournament.
2015-10-20 10:04:59 Hagbard: To new tafl players: please consider to send your email address to our World Tafl Federation chairman Tim Millar on anomalocharis AT hotmail DOT com , so that we have some contact information other than just an anonymous alias here.
2015-10-20 19:31:14 crust: Yes, please do. You will not be bothered with unwanted communications. Many thanks. Tim Millar.
2015-10-26 00:56:38 sqAree: What about showing the current scores of players in tournaments next to the table?
2015-10-26 19:51:59 crust: Good idea Sqaree! I see Hagbard has implemented it already!
2015-10-27 13:31:47 sqAree: Thank you for the fast implementation! :)
2015-11-01 17:28:29 Hagbard: Saw the "Shetland: Red Bones" TV episode. Suddenly appeared an advertisement sign for "Valhalla Shetland Beer".
2015-11-02 01:44:23 crust: The Valhalla Brewery is on the Shetland Island of Unst, and is just a few hundred yards away from the "Skidbladner" - a full-size reconstruction of the Gokstad ship, where hnefatafl is played; I visited the ship with Peter Kelly 5 or 6 years ago and they had a form of Alea Evangelii on board. The site is run by a group called "Viking Unst" who originated the "Unst rules" - where the king can capture as hammer but not anvil.
2015-11-02 02:01:24 fairland: Can we get some pictures? That sounds like a pretty cool place.
2015-11-02 03:29:18 crust: Fairland; see WTF facebook page ;) unfortunately I can't find any pictures of the ship interior with its hnefatafl sets
2015-11-05 05:02:38 fairland: First impressions on Unst tafl: Creates a more invigorating game when it comes to nob-king piece involvement. You can't just get your king out in this version. In fact there is very little motivation to do so. In this version, one must create a player-filled path to the corner before ever worrying about mobilizing the king.
2015-11-07 08:35:20 Hagbard: The current Tablut Bell test tournament is part of the investigation of the Welsh Tawlbwrdd mystery: which of the ten possible setups is most likely the real, historical Tawlbwrdd? This test tournament plus one more could bring us close to an answer.
2015-11-07 08:52:08 Hagbard: About Unst tafl: I believe that the Fairland strategy would work fine, and actually it would also work fine for Sea Battle with its fully unarmed king. I have a theory for Unst with its half armed king that it maybe could be an advantage to get the king out fast and keep him running, because the Unst king is armed only when he runs.
2015-11-07 10:53:56 crust: yes I think both strategies have something going for them - it's vital not to let the king get isolated from his men, so running the king is risky, but could still lead to a quick win. However, the "guillotine" tactic will not work under Unst rules, which is a serious setback for white.
2015-11-07 13:32:10 Hagbard: The Unst game is somewhere in between the Fetlar fully armed (balance +1.43) and Sea Battle diamond fully unarmed (balance -1.38), so the Unst balance and the Unst strategies could be expected to be also somewhere in between; very mysterious game.
2015-11-07 16:56:54 crust: I would be massively surprised if there's anyone up there on Unst who has given it this much thought...
2015-11-07 22:01:48 fairland: That is what the WTF is for. We give it this much thought so casual players don't have to. I would be glad to play test Unst in a tournament setting.
2015-11-08 11:08:24 crust: Yes, Unst is worth a look, but I think Peter Kelly was right to reject it because the King is really too weak for corner tafl on the 11x11 board. I wonder if it would be better balanced on a 9x9 board, because 7x7 brandubh works well and that's corner tafl with a weakened king.
2015-11-08 13:32:50 sqAree: Oh I see. The wording might be misleading then to be honest.
2015-11-08 15:51:35 Hagbard: Unst on a 9x9 to corner, and Unst 11x11 to edge perhaps are two options. Besides the Unst 11x11 to corner used on the island Unst.
2015-11-08 16:51:20 Hagbard: I wonder, since Unst has used this game for so many years, there must be something in it.
2015-11-08 17:33:12 Fairland: Crust and Hagbard: That is why I think it should be play-tested tourney style. If we discover it is unbalanced, we can shrink the rule to a 9X9. If it appears to be balanced and/or have a charm the players like, we can leave it as is. I know Peter Kelly was very careful and meticulous in his decision-making, and his decisions must be considered, but within the context of the tafl world he lived in. There have been drastic changes to understanding of strategy and play in the last few years alone.
2015-11-08 20:02:12 Hagbard: I'd imagine after the current test tournament and one more to tie up a loose end about Tawlbwrdd, we could have an Unst test tournament.
2015-11-16 17:16:17 Fairland: Mr. Nielsen, is there perpetual motion in Unst tafl? (see Fairland vs. Davis as reference.) I think this should be a tie if there is perpetual motion, if not, I will lose soon and might as well resign.
2015-11-16 17:33:01 Hagbard: @Fairland: Perpetual repetition is forbidden generally. Allowed only in Fetlar, because the Fetlar Hnefatafl Panel didn't formulate a rule about this. So the Fairland/Davis game would be a tie in Fetlar, but in this game it's a loss, I'm afraid.
2015-11-16 17:36:38 Fairland: Thanks, I will go ahead and resign then.
2015-11-17 14:45:02 crust: what has happened to our original Sea-Battle 9x9? it seems to have disappeared as an option
2015-11-17 21:24:33 Hagbard: It's just that the balance has not been too good, +1.51, compared to the fine balances of Sea Battle cross 11x11 and Sea Battle Parlett 13x13. But it can be reinserted.
2015-11-18 11:41:37 Hagbard: Note item 6 in the photo below; black, polished game pieces found in a stone age settlement in Denmark, several small pieces with one larger piece. Stone age board game with a chief piece? Or a stone age hunters' game with a prey piece? http://www.kjeldlarsen.mono.net/upl/9844/Kgevej209vIshjmednrhjemmeside10.jpg
2015-11-20 11:01:17 crust: I see our normal 9x9 sea-battle variant is restored. This makes me happy; thanks Hagbard :)
2015-11-24 02:04:54 crust: Well done Altti! Close result!
2015-11-24 03:33:56 altti: yes that draw came in handy. strong play by sigurd.
2015-11-24 04:52:58 Sigurd: Congratulations Altti.
2015-11-30 07:51:26 Hagbard: Anybody knows whether the king-hammer-only hnefatafl is still used on the island Unst?
2015-12-02 14:14:17 crust: Yes, regardless of the outcome of Adam v. Epoc, Adam has already won enough points to win the Championship (since the tie-break rules mean his 9 points beat my 9 points) - So... Adam is the World Hnefatafl Champion 2015! Many congratulations Adam!
2015-12-02 22:14:36 altti: congrats Adam
2015-12-03 18:17:27 Hagbard: Congratulations to Adam! And a thank you to all participants for doing the tournament games faster. This time the winner was found a full month faster than last year.
2015-12-04 09:17:32 Adam: Thank you everyone for a brilliant tournament. A real nail biter!
2015-12-04 09:19:22 crust: Adam Bartley has won the title of World Tafl Federation Hnefatafl Champion 2015; he therefore also wins the title of Hnefatafl Grand Master. Our first Grand Master in Scandinavia! Many congratulations Adam, and also to the many other participants who have played such brilliant games.
2015-12-04 09:22:37 crust: Furthermore, thanks are due to Hagbard who has run our tournament so well. The fact that we generally don't notice you doing it, is just proof that you're doing it so well! Thank you Hagbard.
2015-12-04 16:38:24 Hagbard: Not at all!
2015-12-07 20:45:01 xerxes: Not just the tournament - we should remember that Hagbard puts a lot of time and effort into running the whole site.
2015-12-08 07:22:57 Hagbard: Thanks for the words! I see it as a sort of research project also. We are many who have learnt more about the tafl game in the process, and it's as if the game emerged clearer from the fogs of history.
2015-12-17 23:01:50 HELFRICH: Fun tournament cycle. Missed playing in many while I was on hiatus. Thanks for doing thus site. Every game of Tafl I ever played is here!
2015-12-18 17:32:04 Hagbard: :)
2015-12-19 20:04:22 Hagbard: The World Championship tournament 2015 is completed! 1.5 months faster than last year.
2015-12-23 11:05:39 crust: Merry Christmas, God Jul and happy holidays to everyone! Teach someone hnefatafl this Christmas, and spread a bit of tafl happiness :)
2015-12-23 21:43:39 Adam: God Jul! Happy holidays fellow players.
2015-12-24 00:57:00 docbullen: Happy christmas and god bless everyone especially Tiny Tim Millar (AKA Crust). Always up for a game if anyone is bored over the festive period. Finish work tomorrow so will have more tafl time (and I need the practice if my games are anything to go by). All the best XXX
2015-12-30 09:58:05 mmagari: buon anno a tutti! una domanda: le regole della versione Tafl Brandubh 7x7 (Irish Tafl) sono rimaste inalterate nel tempo? Grazie ______________________________ Happy New Year to all! a question: the rules of version tafl Brandubh 7x7 (Irish tafl) remained unchanged over time? Thank you Marco
2015-12-30 12:09:12 Hagbard: The Brandubh rules are the same on this site as from the beginning. Right now are tested three initial orderings of the pieces, but with same rules. At the very start some variations of the rules were also tested, but they were called "Brandubh-2" and "Brandubh-3".
2016-01-01 01:19:40 crust: Happy New Year everyone! Have a great 2016, with tons of hnefatafl!
2016-01-01 12:39:37 OdinHimself: Happy New Year folks!!!
2016-01-07 09:59:30 crust: A three way tie! Well done all three!
2016-01-19 08:13:15 Hagbard: To new tafl players: please consider to send your email address to our World Tafl Federation chairman Tim Millar on anomalocharis AT hotmail DOT com , so that we have some contact information other than just an anonymous alias here.
2016-01-20 10:05:37 Hagbard: I see that Hnefatafl Championships 2016 on the island Fetlar is in planning: http://www.fetlar.org/hnefatafl-world-championship
2016-01-24 16:35:41 xerxes: A short article in the London Times on Friday Jan 15 about "Draken Harald Horfagre" - a 115ft Viking Ship that has been built and will be sailed from Norway to New York via Shetland, Iceland, and the east coast of Canada (ie broadly following the original route taken by the Vikings 1000 years ago). She looks a beautiful ship - if I can get to see her in Shetland I will. Anyone from this site know any more ? There is some more detail on Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/DrakenHaraldHarfagre/
2016-01-24 16:36:47 xerxes: Sorry, meant to say that the voyage of "Draken Harald Horfagre" is scheduled to start in May 2016.
2016-01-29 10:18:05 xerxes: I like the new drawing on the entry page Hagbard. Is it of you ?
2016-01-29 12:54:06 Hagbard: @xerxes: Thanks for noticing the viking. Alas here are few such men these days, but the artist is family. As for "Draken Harald Horfagre", this is the first time I hear about the impressing viking ship, and I know no more than what is to be found in google. So now the Sea Stallion of Roskilde is no longer the largest viking ship in the world; the Roskilde ship has a crew of 60 men, and the Harald Horfagre has a crew of 100 men!
2016-02-25 19:30:33 Fairland: Greetings Fellow Tafletes! I am back from a brief tafl vacation and ready to play again! challenges accepted. (Copenhägen and Brandubh only please)
2016-03-02 22:00:18 Fairland: That was a good idea, I tried to comment, however. (in order to introduce myself and a hope to get introductions from a few of the senior members as well) but I couldn't comment. It said my username and password were not correct.
2016-03-05 13:46:02 xerxes: I've put a few words about me in the Forum. Fairland: Note that the large forum password is not necessarily the same as your logon password to the main Tafl site.
2016-03-05 15:10:53 fairland: Xerxes, thanks for the help. It turns out I had never registered, it is waiting for administrator activation now according to the email.
2016-03-07 17:56:24 Fairland: Alright! I got on there and posted a blurb as well. I would suggest we get as many senior members as possible to do that, as cumbersome as it may seem. That way we get a good picture of those who are willing to teach the younger generation of taflers from those who are so deep in the philosophy of advanced strategy that they don't find much time to play new guys. It would have been helpful for me on many occasion. Although Crust and Arne64 were two pivotal teachers for me in the early days.
2016-03-07 23:06:26 vonraider: Speaking of Crust, where did he go? He timed out on a game with me and he never does that.
2016-03-08 13:07:49 altti: he hasn't posted anything on the face book page since end of January.
2016-03-08 17:36:59 Fairland: He has been known to take a sabbatical every now and then. Wait patiently and he will pop up with a vengeance.
2016-03-10 12:56:11 xerxes: Ref Crust, I can confirm he is OK - just having a bit of a break.
2016-03-10 16:02:42 vonraider: Glad to hear it.
2016-03-19 08:16:40 Hagbard: Altti won the Unst king hammer only cross 11x11 tournament. This was probably the first time ever that the Unst king has been tournament tested. The first mention of this type of king, which we know of, is by David Brown 1980.
2016-04-02 19:13:18 Hagbard: A second Viking site found in North America: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2016/03/160331-viking-discovery-north-america-canada-archaeology/
2016-04-02 20:19:28 cyningstan: That sounds exciting. I'll have to watch out for any hnefatafl finds. I ignored this story till now as the article I saw yesterday was dated 1st April.
2016-04-02 20:21:04 Hagbard: Right, I was suspicious also, but this one is March 31st.
2016-04-03 10:41:38 xerxes: There's a programme on UK BBC1 at 08:30 on Monday about it - 'Vikings Uncovered'.
2016-04-04 15:55:27 Fairland: If it is in Canada, it might be legitimate, but if it is set in the U.S. be skeptical, almost every "viking site" here is a forgery.
2016-04-05 08:45:03 Hagbard: Another, with short video, "New Viking site found in Newfoundland": http://www.theweathernetwork.com/news/articles/new-viking-site-found-in-newfoundland/65854
2016-04-08 22:36:42 altti: an episode of history channels the Vikings had a tafl game (looked like a 9x9) which lasted only a few moves and the king was captured. seems to have truncated the game a bit.
2016-04-09 17:22:32 cyningstan: I watched the BBC programme. I don't think we'll be seeing high-status finds like tafl remnants from there, any time soon. The evidence for Vikings consisted in metalworking residue; there were also bases of some turf walls. The site was in the south-west of Newfoundland.
2016-04-09 17:24:08 cyningstan: As for the Vikings, I've seen the clip. Let nobody who has enjoyed this series criticise the Vikings for not giving complete accounts of the rules in their narratives - we do much the same thing today :-)
2016-04-11 21:57:23 Tuireann: They showed people playing obscured games of tafl 3 times in Vikings. Could never get a good look at the game unfortunately. Probably intentional.
2016-04-18 16:53:04 Fairland: They should call the WTF and consult about the rules of the game and historical contexts (which, sadly, would probably lean toward edge escape.) Then they could call us in as a team to teach the actors how to tafl and have a more advanced discussion on the show.
2016-04-28 19:49:24 Hagbard: Duhawk93 won the Tablut 15x15 test tournament. A 15x15 tafl board was found in an archaeological excavation at Oslo, Norway (hat tip Adam Bartley), and this was probably the first time that such a board has been tournament tested. The game came out very balanced, -1.17 (117 black wins per 100 white wins).
2016-05-17 19:43:08 altti: is this to discern differences within the variants initial setup? (cross, diamond, Lewis, ect...)
2016-05-17 20:50:35 Hagbard: @altti: Our tournament tests showed that these variants are very likely the historical variants. Brandubh (cross) is the only well balanced setup for brandubh. Saami Tablut, this setup was given directly by the Linné diary. Tawlbwrdd (Bell), only two setups are well balanced, and the Bell appears to be the more reasonable and probable of the two. And they all appear to be the same sole game, the historical Iron Age Hnefatafl, only played on various board sizes.
2016-05-17 21:02:37 sqAree: Hi, I'd like to know the current state of planning the WTF convention 2016.
2016-05-25 01:13:07 Hagbard: I see that Tuireann in the large forum mentions "what used to be called Tablut 11x11 here". I'll just mention that this is the game which was recently renamed to "Historical Hnefatafl 11x11 (Welsh Tawlbwrdd)".
2016-05-25 06:59:57 Tuireann: Indeed, I suppose I should have made that apparent myself.
2016-06-02 19:43:36 Hagbard: Now will be two test tournaments with the two competing setups of Welsh Tawlbwrdd. Which one provides the best tafl, one or the other, or both?
2016-06-06 16:36:51 fairland: Hey guys, I know this isn't what this forum is for, but many of you are very intelligent and might be able to help. What is the formal name of the Roman religion? As in pre Christianity.
2016-06-06 20:06:30 Tuireann: Typically pre-christian indo-European pagan mythologies were not as unified as we like to group them together today, considering that many of the Roman gods sprung up from separate cults that held popularity at various times throughout history, however typically 'Mos Majorum' can be used as a blanket term for everything from spiritual beliefs to how they defined their social structure and norms as they considered most of these things as one in the same through being derived from the traditions of their ancestors.
2016-06-06 20:15:36 Tuireann: Maiorum*
2016-06-22 05:24:51 altti: Ard Ri is poetically beautiful in its simplicity. Using a throne, I found it to be unplayable.
2016-07-01 16:15:01 Hagbard: A couple of notes in the forum about the World Tafl Federation Championship 2016: http://aagenielsen.dk/hnefataflforum/viewtopic.php?f=4&p=647#p640
2016-07-02 23:52:28 altti: I like the proposed Tablut first round for championship.
2016-07-03 10:14:26 Hagbard: I'd like to ask the players: Which of the Historical Hnefatafl games do you think work the best: Brandubh 7x7, Ard Ri 7x7, Tablut 9x9, Tawlbwrdd 1 11x11 (Bell) or Tawlbwrdd 2 11x11 (Lewis cross)?
2016-07-03 11:00:22 Tuireann: I think Tawlbwrdd 1 creates more interesting games with Tablut as a close second. I'm not fully convinced of the balance of Ard Ri, although I really enjoy the game I find it very fickle, and I have made some pretty unbelievable victories from behind on Tawlbwrdd 2 as black. I've only ever played 4 games of Brandubh so I don't really know the game well.
2016-07-05 04:06:08 vonraider: Tablut 9X9.
2016-07-05 18:51:14 Sigurd: Between Tawlbwrdd Bell & Lewis Cross it's close, but I'll go with Bell at this point. More games of each are needed though. I'm hoping they both hold up.
2016-07-07 09:07:19 Hagbard: To the players: What do you think about the two tawlbrwdds? Does one work better than the other?
2016-07-08 11:10:10 Hagbard: What about the tournament on the island Fetlar? Less than a month to their usual date, and the home page still says in planning. And what about the Caithness Viking Festival which is running right now? There should be a Hnefatafl tournament there? Also there uses to be a display of Hnefatafl at the Tønsberg Middelaldersfestival?
2016-07-08 20:05:41 xerxes: There was no tafl going on at the Caithness Viking Festival from Sat-Mon, maybe something later in the week, but not advertised.
2016-07-10 16:48:26 xerxes: Hagbard, a suggestion for next time you are updating the site - would it be possible to have a link to the appropriate tournament in the 'Tournament Overview' page from a tournament game in the list of 'My Current Games' ?
2016-07-12 00:06:14 altti: went to Estonian summercamp this weekend to teach the children Tafl. I used Ard Ri and Tablut for demo and gave them printouts of other variant rulesets to play on their own. they enjoyed it very much.
2016-07-12 10:55:26 Hagbard: Championship tournament 2016 is announced above, two rounds planned using Tawlbwrdd and Copenhagen rules, details in the large forum. Any comments? @Altti: good news.
2016-07-12 18:39:59 Sigurd: @Altti: Cool. How did leading with Ard Ri and then Tablut work with their ability to pick up the concept of the throne? Any difficulty at all?
2016-07-13 00:45:27 altti: @ Sigurd: it was easier to have only movement, capture and objectives to absorb on the first game. then the addition of throne with its change in capture strategies, and the exit at corner on the following game made it much faster to teach, with fewer questions. fewer variables and less confusion.
2016-07-15 14:23:34 fairland: How young were the children? I may be able to use a similar strategy with 15-16 year olds or do you think I would be over-simplifying?
2016-07-15 22:35:50 altti: @Fairland: 7 to 15yrs. the older kids were interested in additional variants very quickly.
2016-07-19 05:17:41 fairland: @helfrich: The problem is that they really don't. Beating the lower guys only gets them some two points per victory. The only way to stay on top is to continue hacking at other top players or your right on bottom again. @altti: thanks for the tip!
2016-07-26 09:45:21 Hagbard: Still no date for a Quick Play Championship on the island Fetlar?
2016-07-29 18:17:35 crust: Greetings all! Off to Sutton Hoo (Suffolk, UK) for the English National Hnefatafl championship, on Sunday. I'll report back afterwards!
2016-07-29 18:36:13 Hagbard: Good to hear!! Good luck and best wishes for a successful tournament!
2016-08-01 01:37:02 crust: Congratulations to Steve Lonsdale (known to us as "Xerxes"), who won the 2016 English National Hnefatafl championship at Sutton Hoo on Sunday. The junior title was won again by Oliver Wilson.
2016-08-01 10:50:03 xerxes: And thanks to Tim Miller and Pete Jennings for organising the championship.
2016-08-01 15:46:22 Hagbard: Congratulations to Xerxes, new English Champion! Don't hesitate to register for the WTF Championship, it's planned for about 36 participants.
2016-08-04 16:23:51 crust: Off to teach hnefatafl at the Asgardian festival near Leicester, UK. There will be a tournament on Sunday, Copenhagen rules naturally. I've made a trophy that says "Asgardian Hnefatafl Champion 2016", I'll let you know how it goes :) I hope to see Bainn there and also Pete Jennings from Sutton Hoo. cheers!
2016-08-06 00:53:00 Tuireann: Currently at the Dublin(Ohio) Irish Festival where they will be teaching Brandubh shortly!
2016-08-06 01:32:06 Hagbard: Will there be a couple of photos?
2016-08-06 01:45:55 Tuireann: Way ahead of you :)
2016-08-06 08:39:29 Tuireann: Made a little post about my experience helping to teach Brandubh at the Dublin(Ohio) Irish Festival http://aagenielsen.dk/hnefataflforum/viewtopic.php?f=4&p=664
2016-08-06 09:48:50 Hagbard: Thanks!!!
2016-08-06 09:53:23 Tuireann: No problem! For the love of Tafl!
2016-08-06 10:11:37 Tuireann: Fyrir Ast Tafl! in modern Icelandic. I like this so it shall be my new battle cry considering that Icelandic is the closest to Old Norse that we have!
2016-08-09 10:29:48 crust: Hello everyone; very quick report from the Asgardian Heathen Festival, Leicestershire, UK.. We played a lot of hnefatafl, including Brandubh and 13x13 sea-battle, which were both more popular than I expected. Although there was lots of interest, the tournament was very small - only four players. Tournament was by Copenhagen rules, won by Steve Moss with a white edge-fort, and the runner-up was Craig Brooks, who will be joining us for the World Championship here. Welcome, Gjallarhorn!
2016-08-17 07:08:16 OdinHimself: Tim, thank you for shareing my facebook link at the WTF website, much appreciated, my friend!
2016-08-17 09:10:13 crust: You're welcome, Lucho - nice to see you on TV! The sailing-ship tafl pieces look great.
2016-08-17 11:45:37 Hagbard: @OdinHimself: I saw the video with your tafl games and interview. Thanks, it's impressing!
2016-08-17 16:39:34 OdinHimself: Thank you, more will come soon! ;)
2016-08-18 12:04:42 crust: it makes sense - without the safe squares around the throne, the king is in much more danger. Congratulations Altti!
2016-08-19 18:45:56 OdinHimself: So, in Welsh version of the game the king is captured when flanked on both sides as any other paw, am I correct ? Except when at or next the throne where enemies must surround him by four and three sides.
2016-08-19 19:28:52 Tuireann: @OdinHimself, correct.
2016-08-19 20:29:11 cyningstan: I've just put a post in the large forum Announcements section about a face-to-face tournament next year that some of you might be interested in.
2016-08-19 21:49:19 OdinHimself: Thanks bud. :)
2016-08-20 00:00:43 Tuireann: @OdinHimself, good to see you since the demise of kingstafl! I was tyraindreams over there.
2016-08-20 07:32:55 OdinHimself: Yes I know you're the same person :) Have you any idea what happened to Kingstafl?
2016-08-20 08:00:39 crust: I was also wondering what happened to kingstafl....
2016-08-21 20:15:03 Tuireann: No idea. One day it just stopped working.
2016-08-22 02:39:10 altti: I've been searching for the rulesets of "old hnefatafl 9x9","Rachunek tafl 9x9", "Ashton Tablut 9x9", skalk hnefatafl 9x9 (expo media)", "seabattle tafl 9x9 (imperial contest)" they appear on the measured tafl game balances listing, but I can't find any rules.
2016-08-22 10:57:08 Hagbard: @altti: You're right. Those still in use are now added to the Rules page and the rest are added to the balance page (bottom).
2016-08-22 13:15:08 altti: thank you Hagbard. I am making a set of boards with rulesets printed at the bottom. this will be useful at demos
2016-08-22 13:43:32 Hagbard: - But those, which rules were not listed, are not "Main Stream" here. They were tested and not found to be as well working and/or logical as the selected collection of variants.
2016-08-22 14:47:54 altti: yes that is borne out in the balances. I plan to make them available as part of the history of Hnefatafl in the modern games evolution. in Rachunek, how does the throne play; is there re-enter and free passage?
2016-08-22 14:57:20 Hagbard: Rachunek: "After the king leaves his throne, no piece can move to the throne (nor the king). However, a piece can go 'over' the throne and finish its move behind it" https://brainking.com/dk/GameRules?tp=19
2016-08-22 15:18:17 altti: has Rachunek been test both "circle" and "T", "cross" and "square"?
2016-08-22 15:47:14 altti: to be a pest once more.....is there re-enter and free passage in Old Hnefatafl 9x9, and Skalk 9x9 (expo media)?
2016-08-22 16:40:22 Hagbard: Rachunek: only the one setup from BrainKing is tested. Old Hnefatafl and Skalk: "normal" throne, i.e. both re-enter and free passage.
2016-09-01 01:00:17 crust: Good luck in the Championship tournament, to all those who are playing!
2016-09-01 21:48:54 Tuireann: That is quite an impressively large tournament page :P
2016-09-03 09:23:40 crust: Three players signed up for the tournament and have not yet shown up to play: RBerenguel, GavinBegbie and Chalhub. I've sent GavinBegbie a message through facebook, but don't have any way of contacting the others - is anyone in touch with them?
2016-09-03 09:27:33 crust: ...and Herjan too has yet to start playing - but I can message him through FB
2016-09-05 09:07:04 crust: Great to see Herjan and GavinBegbie have started their championship matches; still no sign of Chalhub or RBerenguel. There have been some interesting games already!
2016-09-08 17:50:33 crust: everyone please feel free to chat either here or in your games - I know it's the world championship, but it doesn't have to be solemn! :) Also, it's a good way of distracting your opponent so they're more likely to make a mistake ;)
2016-09-08 21:03:43 Tuireann: All shall fall before the might of Tuireann!!! :p
2016-09-09 09:03:25 crust: @Hagbard, Great!! thank you..:) @Tuireann, we'll see about that!! (*sharpens axe*)
2016-09-15 14:28:02 crust: well done Agmundr! I've got one game still ongoing - a titanic clash with Odinhimself, already 103 moves long, and I can't tell who is winning yet! Great tournament everybody, there have been some awesome traps and tactics going on!
2016-09-15 22:15:45 Agmundr: Thanks Crust! Looking forward to the next round! Not important in what group. Good luck everyone in the tournament!
2016-09-19 21:39:13 Tuireann: congrats Xerxes!
2016-09-20 00:44:32 crust: well done xerxes..
2016-09-20 09:21:38 xerxes: Thanks - and congrats to Tuireann. We had some good games in Fornebei, particularly with Odinhimself who was unlucky not to get through.
2016-09-20 09:33:22 Hagbard: It seems that there might be some heavy tafl sharks in Midgarthr round 2.
2016-09-20 14:53:16 crust: I had a fantastic game with Odinhimself in the Fornebei group (he played white, I was black) - although I won, it was incredibly close and both of us were doing all sorts of traps and tricks... it's a pity the tie-break rules are against him. Also, well done Tuireann, only Adam can possibly catch up with you in the Tunsberg group
2016-09-20 16:10:32 altti: congrats to Xerxes, Tuireann, and all those who have not yet finished but have none-the-less certainly qualified for Asgarthr.
2016-09-20 16:26:46 altti: my picks for Asgarthr: Tuireann, Adam, Xerxes, Odinhimself, Crust, Animals, Hagbard, Herjan, Bigwurm91, Sigurd. see you in Midgarthr.
2016-09-20 16:34:37 crust: I agree with Altti's list - I think Sigurd and Adam will win enough points to get to the Asgarthr group; - Midgarthr looks like it will be fun too, with "heavy tafl sharks" as Hagbard puts it :)
2016-09-20 19:07:47 OdinHimself: crust, you could post our epic Welsh game somewhere or make a detailed analysis move by move if you have some free time in future, I think it will be fun and useful for other players to take a look at it... :)
2016-09-20 20:16:36 Hagbard: I agree with Altti's list also, but only eight of them it will be, because of the two additional ways of disolving ties. The rest will add to the vigor of the Midgarth battle.
2016-09-21 04:17:25 altti: ahh I see that Adam may lose his position to Steiger. Odinhimself and Hagbard will be joining us on Midgarthr then. it's going to be quite a battle for supremacy of the mortal world.
2016-09-21 04:39:12 altti: I've been curious of the Ard Ri ratings table. it must not be a simple task to calculate these tables, as I see they get reposted only occasionally. I do like to see where I place in competition per variant. thank you Hagbard. both Damian and Tim have noted your statistical diligence.
2016-09-21 11:23:12 crust: nice one, Bigwurm91!
2016-09-22 06:16:10 Tuireann: I was hoping there would be a Tablut tournament some time after the championship was over. :p
2016-09-24 21:48:17 crust: nice job Sigurd :)
2016-09-26 14:56:31 Hagbard: So, who won Thor's Hammer?
2016-09-28 07:28:52 Hagbard: No Thor's Hammer this year?
2016-09-28 20:22:04 crust: I suppose the remaining place goes either to Steiger or Adam depending on awaited results. Animals was very unlucky not to qualify for Valhalla; I suppose he will be one of the heavy sharks of Asgard (sounds like a Swedish metal band)
2016-09-28 21:44:26 Steiger: \m/. Heavy Sharks of Asgard .\m/ I like!)
2016-09-29 16:34:05 Herjan: Thor's Hammer challenge is yet to be resolved. There had been many a promising young warrior at the Fornebei Viking Festival that wished to learn the skill of warfare and strategy through playing tafl, but not yet ready to challenge for the Hammer. However seasoned warriors have fought and following a win over Tonythebook, Herjan is awaiting a final battle with fornebei's Kappi,(local champion), Doc Bullen for the honoury title of being Thor's Hammer Champion
2016-09-30 17:56:35 Fairland: I did not do well in round one . . . :( However, I do feel like I learned a lot about the "philosophy" of tafl and of the board by observing the 11X11 Bell formation. Let´s hope my powers in Copenhägen increase due to this added knowledge.
2016-10-01 09:21:14 Hagbard: The distribution of all players into Round 2 groups is now clear, except only for two: Vonraider and Helfrich. Round 2 can start now for all other players, and Vonraider and Helfrich will be added to Round 2 as soon as possible. We made this year Round 1 in precisely one month! Good luck everybody in the Finals!
2016-10-01 17:06:14 xerxes: Good Luck to you in the Finals as well Hagbard - and thanks again for organising all this.
2016-10-01 19:17:53 Hagbard: :)
2016-10-01 21:41:26 altti: the tournament rules need to be amended to reflect the change from asgarthr to valholl. (just sayin'....) other wise a lucky asgarthr victor may walk away with the championship as a legal claim. hehe.
2016-10-02 09:07:00 Adam: Good luck to all in the finals! And thank you Hagbard for organising us all thus far. Great job as always.
2016-10-03 09:19:24 crust: Enjoy the final round, everyone, and if you didn't get into the Valholl group, keep going; we're looking for an Asgarthr champion, a Midgarthr champion and an Udgarthr champion too. It's great that we finished Round One so quickly, and as Xerxes and Adam already said, thanks to Hagbard for being such an excellent host and organiser
2016-10-03 11:51:15 Hagbard: Thanks and you're welcome. Have fun!
2016-10-03 19:15:45 crust: wow - Agmundr has racked up three points already! Who put Nitro in his drinking horn? ;)
2016-10-03 19:21:39 Agmundr: Running on mjød 🍻 😀
2016-10-16 01:24:48 Kratzer: Right now, I'm not so sure anymore: is the Garbo draw fort allowed in Copenhagen? (The king cannot move, but there is a draw fort consisting of 4 white pieces)
2016-10-16 03:33:19 crust: kratzer, the "Garbo" fort (bless you for remembering that name) will not work under Copenhagen rules, because of the ban on repetitive moves. Since black is bound to have more options to move pieces around than white, it seems inevitable that white will be the one who repeats his board position for the third time and so loses the game.
2016-10-18 21:23:50 vonraider: vonraider: I discovered rather quickly that sqAree was indeed not a "new" player. To my sorrow......
2016-11-04 12:16:36 crust: Certainly looks that way! Odinhimself (Asgarthr) and Kratzer (Ugarthr) are looking unstoppable; I'll hold off the congratulations, though, until all games in these groups are finished; hope it won't be too long :)
2016-11-04 18:13:57 crust: only 8 more games, and I'm up to 3000, lol... I really should be better at this game... :)
2016-11-04 18:17:57 OdinHimself: @crust: 3000 games played here only, probably 3x3000 played at all... I think you're good enough :)
2016-11-07 12:35:21 crust: I am the king of tafl-heads ;)
2016-11-07 20:11:00 Steiger: Hail the king!)
2016-11-07 22:00:29 Ded Fomich: With heart and voice let's sing God save the King! =)
2016-11-08 11:43:51 crust: Congratulations Odinhimself, Champion of Asgarthr! A magnificent performance and a clear victory!
2016-11-08 12:33:55 OdinHimself: Thank you Tim, much appreciated! :)
2016-11-08 14:05:10 crust: It was literally 10 out of 10, well done Lucho for not losing a single game in the second round ;)
2016-11-08 16:19:59 OdinHimself: Thank you, but I must say I had a fierce opponents, every one of them deserves respect and I had some very tied up games against them. They are all worthy players and I mean this for real.
2016-11-08 16:24:56 crust: yes, you were swimming with some dangerous tafl-sharks... and you came out without a scratch!
2016-11-08 17:41:06 OdinHimself: lol, yes, me the little harmless seal...
2016-11-09 05:36:22 altti: congrats on the clean sweep. that was impressive. I felt totally out matched.
2016-11-09 08:14:41 OdinHimself: I think 9th place is not bad at all for a debut participation. It will help me a lot in my main mission - to perform and popularize the ancient war strategy board game Hnefatafl and the tafl games family at all in Bulgaria. It's quite unknown where I live. As Tim likes to say - The heroes of the Hnefatafl renaissance spread the word! :)
2016-11-15 04:07:07 altti: Crust and Herjan are playing an epic long end game. don't know why Herjan gave up real-estate at move 127, perhaps an attempt to free up pieces for an assault? or an enticement to err for crust (not likely to happen, I've tried). with Sigurds draw vs. Xerxes, crust now only has Herjan to contend with. If I interpret the tie break evaluation correctly, a 12 point tie would give Herjan the cup.
2016-11-15 11:14:54 Hagbard: I agree. If Crust and Herjan each get 12.5 points, then the winner will be Herjan. Because the direct games Crust/Herjan then gave Crust 0.5 points and Herjan 1.5 points.
2016-11-15 21:02:55 crust: I am very happy to offer/accept a draw with Herjan! If that means he wins the championship, I don't mind :)
2016-11-16 02:38:36 Bigwurm91: Thanks to everyone that put the championships together. I look forward too competing next year
2016-11-18 21:54:20 Sigurd: Alas, neither of my attempts at a 50-move draw fort worked out. :D
2016-11-18 23:51:05 Hagbard: A good try, and a very interesting idea. These cases will probably be discussed for some time when the tournament is finished
2016-11-20 00:32:04 altti: congrats to Herjan. What would the title in Valhalla be for a victorious combatant?
2016-11-20 15:30:42 crust: On behalf of the World Tafl Federation, congratulations to Herjan (Leo Kolassa) of UK, who wins the tournament on a tie-break. Herjan is therefore the World Tafl Federation 2016 Hnefatafl Champion, and is granted the title of grand-master. Very well done, an extremely deserving champion! Congratulations also to Odinhimself (Master of Asgarthr), to Arevidar who will certainly be Master of Midgarthr, and to Kratzer, who will undoubtedly be Master of Utgarthr. Commiserations to all the other players; many thanks for taking part, for your dedication and good sportsmanship. And of course thank you to our excellent host Mr. Nielsen, without whom none of this would be possible.
2016-11-20 18:52:49 Hagbard: A big congratulations to Herjan, new Hnefatafl World Champion of 2016! And a big thank you to the 33 tournament players for participating this year (25 carried through to the end), and for playing it swiftly so that the winner was found 13 days faster than last year. Also a thank you to the tournament umpires, Tim Millar and Adam Bartley!
2016-11-20 19:32:11 OdinHimself: A poem by me for all the players and winners: At the end, on the battlefield we stand with bleeding wounds and a broken sword in hand We curse the gods and the creator of this wicked world where good is evil untill the final battle crushes the Earth... Skol!
2016-11-20 20:05:48 xerxes: Congratulations to Herjan - and Crust who missed out by a whisker. And the biggest thanks must go to Hagbard for organising the tournament.
2016-11-20 20:46:55 Steiger: Присоединяюсь к поздравлениям и благодарностям!
2016-11-20 22:46:52 crust: Just in case anyone was unsure abut the tie-break, Herjan and I both got 12.5 points, but of our two games, one was a victory for Herjan and the other was a draw, so under the tie-break rules, Herjan is the winner. It's nice to have a result that is both very close, and also clear. Just like last year when Adam won by a small margin. It's also good to have a new grand-master. Nice poem, Odinhimself!
2016-11-21 19:58:42 Adam: Congratulations to Herjan! A new Grand Master! Thanks everyone for a great tournament. Looking forward to post tournament forum discussions which were well underway half way through!
2016-11-22 15:58:51 herjan: Thank you all for an amazing tournament. At the start I never thought I would get this far and win especially when playing so many matches against so many worthy opponents, and in some cases being engaged in a number of epic battles. I am so glad I persevered. Its equally a huge honour to have the title of Grand Master bestowed on me, especially as I also become the Fornebei's Thors Challenge winner recently. 2016 has certainly been a successful tafl playing year and I shall be wearing the Tafl Champion & Grand Master title with pride for a very long time.
2016-11-22 16:55:11 Tuireann: Congrats Herjan!
2016-11-23 04:58:13 Sigurd: Congratulations Herjan!
2016-11-23 13:38:04 Hagbard: About a year ago I promised a Berserk tournament some day, started now. Specialty the berserk moves, watch out for them...
2016-11-30 20:57:08 Kratzer: FYI: Copenhagen und Berserk made it into an Android game app called "hnefatafl", made by Philippe Schober.
2016-11-30 21:04:25 Hagbard: @Kratzer: that is very good news!
2016-12-20 07:45:32 Hagbard: Adam won the Berserk tournament and proved himself again a real berserker! And not the only one, obviously, since many players did very well in the games! I went through all the 90 games, and that was very interesting and amusing. Thanks a lot to the ten players who took part! I'm working on a more thorough forum note about this tournament.
2016-12-20 09:06:59 xerxes: Thanks Hagbard - I thought the Berserk tournament was great fun; the format gives the player a lot more to think about (and a lot more opportunities to make mistakes !).
2016-12-24 01:37:47 Fairland: Are we going to do national championships again this year or was that a one-time thing?
2016-12-24 14:45:29 Agmundr: Gleðileg jól! 🍻 ☺
2016-12-25 02:08:45 Hagbard: Glædelig Jul!
2016-12-26 10:15:43 Hagbard: @Fairland: Certainly! What about signing in from now and then starting Feb. 1st? I'd propose that it is this time a full America tournament. That is including Canada, and we've sometimes players from Mexico and Brazil also. Then, about April 1st, we could have a full Europe tournament also? Of course including Russia, Bulgaria, Ukraine, Belarus and Poland.
2016-12-26 10:38:37 Hagbard: - And if an Australian should turn up, I'd propose that he joins the European contest, just like Australia already joined the European Song Contest.
2016-12-26 13:24:51 xerxes: And then how about a Europe vs Americas match, with, say, the top 6 from each competition playing each other to find the best continent ?
2016-12-26 13:44:38 xerxes: Ref the Hull Tournament in June that Damian is organising (see http://tafl.cyningstan.com/post/1436/hnefatafl-tournament-planned-for-hull-in-2017 ) - looks like a few of us UK players from this site will be going, so it would be good if some folk can make it across from Europe and elsewhere.
2016-12-26 15:01:35 Hagbard: @xerxes: So America no. 1 against Europe no. 1, America no. 2 against Europe no. 2 etc.?
2016-12-26 17:08:52 xerxes: @Hagbard: Yes, and either each pair could play two games (White and Black) or alternate White and Black down the list, as long as there were an even number of players.
2016-12-26 17:27:51 Hagbard: In that case I'd suggest two games, white and black. And since there are now two (three) rounds, European Tournament could begin by March 1st.
2016-12-26 17:35:06 Fairland: Alright!let's do this!
2016-12-31 22:44:14 Steiger: С Новым Годом!
2017-01-17 10:59:26 Hagbard: Yesterday I attended in the Historical Association a most fascinating lecture about the early medieval Icelandic Manuscripts with the Viking sagas, given by an associate professor from the Iceland University institute in Reykjavik responsible for the manuscripts. The manuscripts are on UNESCO's list of World Heritage. Those are fascinating stories! Especially "Njal's Saga" was recommended. The dialogues and the actions of the sagas have much in common with our time's spaghetti westerns...
2017-01-17 17:21:44 xerxes: gba@hard. That's interesting. At the Thurso Viking Festival last year (Thurso is on the north-east coast of Scotland) they were starting to design and make a tapestry of the part of Njal's Saga which occurred in Caithness. This was the premonition seen by Darrod: he saw the Valkyries weaving a bloody cloth, and all the pictures they wove subsequently came true. Kristin Ragna Gunnarsdottir from Iceland, who has made a complete tapestry of Njal's Saga, led a workshop in Thurso where the sketches of characters for the Caithness tapestry were completed - my wife Liz was responsible for designing the figure of Darrod and one of the Valkyries. The Caithness centre in Thurso is now attempting to gain funding to complete their tapestry.
2017-01-17 17:22:58 xerxes: Oops, don't know what happened there, that should have been to @hagbard !
2017-01-18 08:15:51 Hagbard: Will there be photos of the Thurso tapestry? Njal made it as far as Rome. As kids in school we studied some Icelandic Sagas as part of the curriculum. I've put two saga bits in the forum: http://aagenielsen.dk/hnefataflforum/viewtopic.php?f=4&p=734#p734
2017-01-20 10:32:02 xerxes: @Hagbard: The sewing of the Thurso Tapestry has not been started yet, so no photos. They have completed the design, and are now putting the project costs together (linen types, threads etc) to apply for funding. I expect that will take a while, but will keep you informed.
2017-01-25 17:23:37 Hagbard: The Vinland Trophy Match begins in a week! (North- and South-America). If no objections, it would be fair to name the winner International Tafl Master (like International Chess Masters from international chess tournaments). Two years ago it was only USA, and the winner was National Master.
2017-01-31 07:21:34 Hagbard: Last chance to join the Vinland Trophy Match, begins after midnight Vinland time! OBS. How come that the IP address of bigwurm91 is in Australia?
2017-02-01 07:26:35 Hagbard: The American Championship started! The list of players reveals that USA is the tafl superpower of the two American continents, as all ten participants are from USA. For the final I propose nine top players from both sides instead of six, that is if nine players can be gathered from Europe, too. Because nine is the sacred number in the Norse universe: nine worlds, nine days in the tree, nine golden rings every nineth night, nine valkyries, nine norns etc. The final is a short round, every player having only two games, no. 1 against no. 1, no. 2 against no. 2 etc.
2017-02-01 07:30:28 Hagbard: Perhaps the European Hnefatafl Championship Tournament could be called the Beowulf Trophy match? The Beowulf story connects a large part of the oldest tafl world. The story takes place in Lejre, Denmark. The hero comes from an area somewhere between Denmark, Norway and Sweden. The story was written down in England and is now kept in the British Museum. Come and join, Australia, Bulgaria, Ukraine, Russia, Belarus, Poland, France, Italy, Spain, Switzerland, Germany, UK, Norway, Denmark!
2017-02-01 07:38:33 Hagbard: What about taking a small break from trying more Ard Ri setups, and try out this new game, which Adam Bartley invented, Alea Berserk 19x19. Adam transferred the Berserk rules to the 19x19 board, adjusted the number of special pieces (commanders and knights), and introduced a new type of piece, "the variegated man". The rules are described here: http://aagenielsen.dk/hnefataflforum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=21&start=20#p169 Remember the way to do berserk moves: To do a berserk move fx. from point A to B and further from B to C and further from C to D, you click A-B-B-C-C-D and then press Send and confirm.
2017-02-01 11:26:05 xerxes: Beowulf Trophy sounds like a good name for the European Tournament, and the more players from each side to contest the America vs Europe match the better !
2017-02-01 11:26:52 xerxes: @Hagbard: Thanks for the Alea Berserk Tournament - should be fun !
2017-02-02 05:50:58 altti: It's just not the same without Sigurd to challenge the field.
2017-02-02 07:30:40 Hagbard: The "Variagated men" of Alea Berserk 19x19, Adam wrote: "along with one new piece which is my 'variagated man'. These pieces behave like normal soldiers, except they are black on one side, and white on the other, like an Othello piece. When taken, they are not removed from the board, but 'flipped'. Consider them hired soldiers, changing sides according to who pays the highest price."
2017-02-02 17:54:14 Fairland: I am certain we were expecting that.
2017-02-06 18:01:33 Adam: So great that we can test Berserk Alea. Thank you Hagbard! By lucky hap I have just visited Crust that is called Tim in the UK, and we finally got around to testing it in real life. We tried the exact set up I posted on the forum with one change, the variagated men were also commanders. This gave them a bit more weight in the game swinging back and forth. I figured, if its too much, make them regular soldiers, and if its not enough, make them knights, which would be crazy. It worked pretty well, and the game never gridlocked. For fun we also tried all pieces as reversible regular soldiers (except the king). It was very weird and interesting, sort of a Gothellotafl. Amazingly we ended with almost exactly the same balance of black and white pieces (all but one flipped back to original colour).
2017-02-15 11:08:42 Hagbard: @Brench: List of applied openings put in the forum.
2017-02-15 18:11:31 Hagbard: Who is "Schachus", grandmaster from 2014? Does he exist?
2017-02-16 17:09:44 sqAree: @Hagbard: Schachus definitely exists.
2017-02-16 17:24:53 Hagbard: About Schachus: thanks, so it's not just an alternative alias for some other player?
2017-02-17 05:12:42 sqAree: It's highly unlikely that Schachus had another account on this site. I base my assumption purely on my perception of his personality; in any case Schachus was his main account. So sad he's not playing anymore, as he was probably the best player among all of us.
2017-02-17 06:37:27 Hagbard: I wondered if Schachus perhaps is identical to Nath?
2017-02-17 20:14:43 sqAree: Don't worry, they're different persons. ^^
2017-02-17 22:22:58 Hagbard: I hope so; glad to hear it.
2017-02-19 17:04:06 Brench: Finished the analysis of openings for Copenhagen Hnefatafl + win probabilities. I want to change the color scheme on the board position images and put everything into a pdf. Should/can we host here? Or host elsewhere?
2017-02-20 06:54:28 Hagbard: We certainly could put the pdf here, would be honoured to. Brench's post is found in the large forum, Strategy, Compiling a list of openings.
2017-02-21 17:51:09 Brench: @Hagbard: Excellent. I'm just editing the Copenhagen document now and making sure the introduction explains the images and statistics well enough to be of use. Hopefully we can use this kind of analysis to start building a Hnefatafl theory analogous to Chess theory. When the document is done where should I send it?
2017-02-21 18:13:07 Hagbard: To the email-address at bottom of this page.
2017-02-22 07:02:29 Brench: @Hagbard: sent out the document. I view this as an ongoing project so I'll update it every so often.
2017-02-22 18:57:56 Hagbard: @Brench: Thanks very much! A link is put in the forum. So the analysis versions can for now be read from there, until a more complete result later, which can then be moved to a page of its own.
2017-02-26 07:56:24 Brench: Finished my analysis of the best and worst moves made in response to an opening move of d1-d3 (or h1-h3 or equivalent) by black in Copenhagen. Just have to make sure the plots are being generated correctly. Will get the data up in a day or two.
2017-03-09 05:16:45 Bigwurm91: 01-31/07:21 Hagbard: Last chance to join the Vinland Trophy Match, begins after midnight Vinland time! OBS. How come that the IP address of bigwurm91 is in Australia? Currently living and working in Sydney on a work and holiday visa. sorry for any confusion. Native Californian tho
2017-03-19 07:04:52 Hagbard: Ard Ri test tournament: the king moves only one step at a time.
2017-03-19 07:08:18 Brench: Complete analysis of all responses to h1-h3 or the equivalent moves has been completed and emailed as a pdf.
2017-03-19 15:01:18 Hagbard: Altti won the Vinland Trophy Match! Congratulations! The tournament covered two American continents, and as there've been no objections to my proposition Jan. 25th, Altti is our first International Tafl Master.
2017-03-19 20:08:30 OdinHimself: Congratulations on the win Altti! Live long and prosper! :)
2017-03-20 03:06:07 altti: thank you. I would have liked Sigurd to have competed. Congrats to Casshern for the strong competition.
2017-03-20 08:27:38 Casshern: Thanks Altti. Congrats on the victory!
2017-03-20 10:35:23 xerxes: Congratulations Altti - well-deserved. And to Casshern for a strong showing in their first tournament.
2017-03-20 16:54:43 Sigurd: Congratulations Altti. Maybe next year.
2017-03-24 07:21:46 Hagbard: Is there by any chance a native English speaker with French as a second language, who without too much effort could translate the Nicolas Cartier paper on Tablut into English? http://aagenielsen.dk/Cartier-IterLapponicum.pdf I suspect it to be a very good article.
2017-03-25 07:44:02 Hagbard: The first couple of sentences in the Cartier paper are identical to Ashton's, but rest of the paper seems to be Cartier's text. Fx. Cartier tells about Tawlbwrdd besides Tablut.
2017-03-28 09:24:13 Hagbard: Test tournament: the Brench cluster 17. Remember, the first two moves must be black a4-c4 white f8-c8
2017-03-28 10:12:07 Hagbard: (It's no sacrifice for black to start with a4-c4, as this is a very strong and very popular black opening move. Also it's no sacrifice for white to answer with f8-c8, as this could possibly be a strong answer.)
2017-03-28 21:42:58 Fairland: So I am a little confused at looking at the openings list in the large forum. I see a huge list which appears to be different games on there, but I don't see a list that names out the openings or outlines only opening moves with probability. Is this just over my head?
2017-03-31 11:14:03 Hagbard: @Fairland: I use the diagrams. Fx. the diagram of Cluster 17 shows that a black and a white move were done, the opening we test now.
2017-04-01 04:55:37 Fairland: Oh alright, thanks!
2017-04-04 18:26:53 OdinHimself: Has anyone heard something about Tim (crust)? He just disappeared and I lost contact to him.
2017-04-06 07:36:34 Hagbard: The American team is ready: 1 Altti, 2 Casshern, 3 Fraech, 4 Bigwurm91, 5 Brench, 6 Tuireann, 7 Fairland, 8 Waegn, 9 Imaxuncut
2017-04-06 09:47:12 Hagbard: OdinHimself won the Beowulf Trophy Match! Congratulations! The tournament covered all Europe, Asia and Australia, and thus OdinHimself is our second International Tafl Master.
2017-04-06 10:04:14 Kratzer: @OdinHimself: Same here. I could not reach him via FB. Hope he is alright.
2017-04-06 14:17:34 OdinHimself: @Kratzer Thank you for your reply my friend. @Hagbard Yay you made my day!!! Shall I announce this on my Hnefatafl Odin facebook page?
2017-04-06 15:41:51 Hagbard: @OdinHimself: Good idea.
2017-04-06 15:51:24 Steiger: @OdinHimself: Congrats, brother!\m/.
2017-04-06 15:54:33 OdinHimself: @Steiger: Thanks brother! In the name of metal!!!!! \m/ \m/
2017-04-06 16:22:19 Steiger: We Are Fighting With Power And Steel Fighting For Metal, Metal That's Real ;-)
2017-04-06 16:28:08 OdinHimself: ...Brothers of metal will always be there, standing together with haaaaaands in the air! \m/
2017-04-06 16:56:18 Steiger: Yeah, man!\m/.
2017-04-06 17:14:24 xerxes: @OdinHimself: Congratulations on a well-deserved win.
2017-04-06 17:18:09 OdinHimself: Thank you xerxes. Both you and your brother were a very tough opponents. \m/
2017-04-07 00:50:59 Tuireann: The latest episode of 'The Last Kingdom'(S02E04) shows Alfred the Great and his daughter playing a Tafl game using the classic History Craft 'Viking Game'. :P A little immersion breaking knowing I have an identical set not 2 meters away... But awesome to see a Tafl game featured in a TV poduction!
2017-04-07 07:38:35 Hagbard: Test tournament: "Skalk Hnefatafl 11x11" was the version advocated by museums in Denmark and Scandinavia for 20 years (1992-2012), and it's still the version you meet in books. (King armed, captured from 2 sides, wins in corner). Can you win as white?
2017-04-08 12:30:15 altti: @OdinHimself: congrats fellow international champion. \m/. FOLK METAL!
2017-04-08 15:58:08 OdinHimself: Thank you Altti! :) Viking/folk metal, pagan/folk metal and folk/black metal! \m/
2017-04-08 18:07:55 Hagbard: @Casshern: Skalk Hnefatafl: If the king is on a square next to a corner, he can be captured by one black.
2017-04-08 18:47:01 xerxes: @Hagbard: I assume no Shieldwall Capture and Edge Fort in Skalk ?
2017-04-08 21:58:09 Casshern: @Hagbard: Thank you.
2017-04-08 22:56:00 Hagbard: @xerxes: Correct. It's a tablut with win in corner. No Shieldwall Capture and no Edge Fort. But you can do the win by black completely surrounding white.
2017-04-09 08:29:23 Hagbard: - and repetitions are forbidden as usual.
2017-04-09 23:53:09 Hagbard: Suggestion for America-Europe final round points: No. 1 game 9 points, no. 2 game 8 points etc. and no. 9 game 1 point.
2017-04-10 11:05:38 xerxes: @Hagbard - Ref the America-Europe Challenge, my view would be a point for each game. I assume each pairing will play one Black and one White game ?
2017-04-10 12:29:44 Hagbard: Each pair one black and one white game.
2017-04-10 14:17:20 animals: Suggested points for America vs Europe would mean an overall win if just the top three players won, which seems a bit too focused on the top.
2017-04-10 21:16:30 Hagbard: ok, 9*2 games, and 18 points to share then -
2017-04-11 19:25:55 Hagbard: Skalk rating suspended during the test tournament. The balance is not known well enough.
2017-04-15 11:03:47 Hagbard: casshern won the Ard Ri-1 test tournament. Even if a few moves are left of the last tournament game, the Ard Ri's can be summed up: http://aagenielsen.dk/hnefataflforum/viewtopic.php?f=1&p=861#p861
2017-04-15 19:37:46 OdinHimself: Congratulations casshern!
2017-04-16 01:48:03 Casshern: Thank you Odin! And congrats on your victory in the Europeon tournament! I was hoping we would met in the America-Europe challenge but Altti still reigns supreme on this side of the pond.
2017-04-16 08:54:53 OdinHimself: Thanks! We will meet plenty of times I think. :) Good luck!
2017-04-16 23:35:15 Hagbard: Congratulations to animals for winning the English National Championship 2017 in West Stow today!
2017-04-17 08:47:45 OdinHimself: Congrats!
2017-04-17 10:07:54 xerxes: Yes, congratulations to Animals !
2017-04-17 11:31:49 altti: Congrats Animals!
2017-04-17 21:52:55 animals: Thanks. Next stop Europe vs Americas.
2017-04-17 22:07:06 sqAree: It will still take a while to finish the European tournament thanks to me. :D Sorry for that.
2017-04-27 16:14:09 Hagbard: The European team is ready: 1 Odinhimself, 2 Animals, 3 Sqaree, 4 Hagbard, 5 Steiger, 6 Kratzer, 7 Thanir, 8 Xerxes, 9 Arevidar The America-Europe final can begin tomorrow!
2017-04-28 00:20:16 altti: starting on my birthday.
2017-04-28 07:52:37 Hagbard: congratulations to Altti on the birthday and good luck in the final!
2017-04-28 12:02:19 OdinHimself: Happy birthday Altti! Live long and prosper! :)
2017-05-01 13:46:56 Hagbard: Test tournament: Imperial Contest. This game was produced 1855 in the UK by Jaques of London and was named "Imperial Contest", the first commercial hnefatafl game sold. NB the cargo ship moves max. 4 squares per move. (Hat tip Damian Walker).
2017-05-01 22:00:51 Tuireann: I have always wanted to try the Imperial Contest rules. The limiting of the king to 4 space moves is an interesting limitation for a strong king on edge escape.
2017-05-01 22:20:47 Hagbard: The Imperial Contest is probably our best Sea Battle 9x9 configuration. The king moves limitation is a clever way of adjusting the game balance, and such an adjustment is probably needed for the 9x9 board; but not needed for the larger boards where adjusting can be done through the setup of pieces.
2017-05-05 17:35:53 Hagbard: Attention! May 17th there is a Board Game Studies Colloquium in Copenhagen with participating historical board game university researchers from many countries. If anyone here has thought of some clever question about tafl, which these people possibly could shed light on, please tell.
2017-05-08 07:55:08 Hagbard: test tournament, there's one more chance with Ard Ri: Ard Ri-1 friendly-throne. King armed, moves only one step, wins on edge, captured from 2 sides, but the throne is friendly
2017-05-13 15:49:37 Hagbard: casshern won the Skalk Hnefatafl 11x11 test tournament. Thanks for your patience with this variant; summary in the forum: http://aagenielsen.dk/hnefataflforum/viewtopic.php?f=1&p=870#p870
2017-05-16 15:49:09 xerxes: A lovely set of boards Lucho. I'd say more than 'cool' !
2017-05-16 15:49:21 xerxes: By the way, one or two players have been asking after 'Crust' (Tim). Adam tells me that Tim is well and is just currently taking a break from the online tafl world. Hopefully we will see Tim back on here before too long.
2017-05-16 20:07:18 OdinHimself: Second that! I miss Tim. He was the first opponent I played against. And he always has been nice to me, a real gentleman!
2017-05-16 20:09:36 OdinHimself: Oh, I forgot to thank you for liking my boards xerxes! I appreciate it! :)
2017-05-17 17:36:15 Ded Fomich: @xerxes Thank you for the good news about Tim, it makes us happy to hear that.
2017-05-17 17:39:10 Ded Fomich: By the way, I'm a proud owner of Tablut board designed by OdinHimself, it rocks! \m/ I will never stop thanking you for it, Lucho!
2017-05-17 17:45:16 Ded Fomich: I also have a great Tablut board made by Steiger, it rocks too! \m/ Thanks a million, Sanya! In our community we have not only strong players, but great carving masters too. You are real heroes of hnefatafl renaissance (© Tim Millar), my friends!
2017-05-17 17:49:40 Steiger: @Ded Fomich, Thanks for your support, kumpel!
2017-05-17 18:12:55 Steiger: I'm glad to hear that is Crust are fine too!
2017-05-17 18:30:02 OdinHimself: \m/ \m/ Both Alexanders \m/ \m/ We also became friends, never mind we started as opponents. It's being a pleasure knowing you guys and playing against each other without malice, just the contrary - we help each other and improve not only our knowledges, but tafl's Renaissance! I think the tafl world has now raised a very strong generation, we've grown as united and friendly community and this rejoices my heart! Let's bring Hnefatafl to the world brothers!!!
2017-05-17 20:50:46 Steiger: Word from word gave words to me, Deed from deed gave deeds to me \m/.
2017-05-20 10:04:48 OdinHimself: Havamal! :)
2017-05-20 10:17:03 Steiger: A powerful formula for growth!
2017-05-20 10:49:00 Steiger: As told me my grandfather: под лежачий камень вода не течёт
2017-05-20 17:07:57 OdinHimself: Wise!
2017-05-23 15:13:39 xerxes: @Hagbard. In the Brandubh Throneless comp, I would have thought the King could be captured by two players if he is on the centre square (see my game as Black vs Jrton80).
2017-05-23 16:32:35 Hagbard: He most certainly is. Thanks.
2017-05-25 15:30:46 Hagbard: Europe won against America, but still 6 games left to finish.
2017-05-25 18:31:24 Steiger: nice job, Europe!)
2017-05-26 09:43:20 Hagbard: @OdinHimself: So do you sell your wonderful tafl boards at your Viking markets? In the Trelleborg Viking Market, Denmark, there was a booth with also very fine carvings, German I believe.
2017-05-26 15:43:39 OdinHimself: @Hagbard: Unfortunatelly we don't have Viking markets in Bulgaria... Sad, but true. I could design and craft tafl boards for everyone who shows interest, but that's it. No markets... And I have plenty of ideas for beautiful new boards, just don't have funds for accomplishments... I really like to create one board as a prize for the next World tafl champion, but as I said I don't have free money for this project. Bulgaria is far from Wonedrland and it's quite hard for developing my ideas. Anyway I'm glad my boards are welcomed and liked. :)
2017-05-26 17:26:43 Hagbard: Medieval markets then?
2017-05-26 18:07:44 OdinHimself: Medieval yes. Last year I think was set the beginning of medieval markets in Bulgaria. I'll try to visit some of them this year. http://calendar.badamba.info/ I know it is in Cyrillic, just click on the links to see some photos.
2017-06-01 09:47:54 Adam: This weekend I am prestenting Hnefatafl at the Tønsberg Medieval Festival in Norway, this year we have a tent with medieval board games, so the Tafl family will be in good company!
2017-06-01 15:37:15 OdinHimself: Cool! I envy you noble
2017-06-01 19:25:07 OdinHimself: I think I hit the bottom of the non-creative-ideas swamp in the tafl land... Maybe it's time to do something else?
2017-06-04 07:50:12 OdinHimself: Finally! My efforts for making Hnefatafl popular in Bulgaria achieved some success! I was inetrviewed by journalists for a short reportage, which will be broadcasted on national air in one of the two biggest media in Bulgaria. And I have their promises for future 25-30 minutes regional broadcasting about Tafl games. Also more and more people show interest in the game and contacting me for information. Skal!!!
2017-06-04 08:07:27 Steiger: Great work, Lucho!
2017-06-04 13:18:46 altti: wonderful news, Lucho!
2017-06-04 16:24:38 OdinHimself: Thank you brothers, fellow warriors! I'll post the video on my Hnefatafl sport club's page, I know for most of you it will be incomprihensible, because it's in Bulgarian, but you can watch the frames at least. This is my mission, to bring nefatavl back to the light of the Balkans and give the world a new generation of sparked and perspective tafl players. One for all, all for one!!!
2017-06-08 12:16:06 Hagbard: "Play Tafl Online", USA tafl site, celebrates today its one year birthday. Big congratulations!
2017-06-08 13:41:12 OdinHimself: Skal! Live long and prosper!
2017-06-09 14:00:31 OdinHimself: http://btvnovinite.bg/article/bulgaria/regionalni-novini/balgarin-e-evroshampion-po-vikingski-hah.html Hagbard, you can see your site on the television now... :)
2017-06-09 16:15:15 Hagbard: Wonderful program! I like that, thanks! And your beautiful game boards are in, too. I can hear that you have a good chat with the journalist about the game and about the championships!
2017-06-09 16:34:23 OdinHimself: Yes. Yesterday we shot another video with a different crew of the Bulgarian national television. They would like to present the game in at least 4-5 minutes long interview in their morning blog. I hope it works, it all depends of the editors. Then I asked them to put me in a half an hour long regional broadcasting called "On a glass of wine" where I can speak free and show how the game is played. They asked me a lot about the WTF activity, tournaments, prizes etc. I think things slowly work out. :)
2017-06-09 23:53:55 Hagbard: Good work!
2017-06-09 23:58:55 altti: I liked the program too, especially the part where I could see my name. TY for the international exposure. it is true we Americans are narcissists.
2017-06-10 08:41:18 OdinHimself: lol. They insisted to show them the Wall of fame section as a proof I won the European tournament. Don't get me wrong guys, I do not parade with this title, to be honest I kept it in secret, only my family and friends knew about it, but now I realize it helped me a lot when came in public. Media got interested in this news and I obtained a very good chance to present Hnefatafl to society, that's what I want most. Titles come and go, but the game is the true gem! Shortly after reportage got emitted a 13 year old boy contacted me on my Facebook account eager to learn Hnefatafl. He said he is a former chess player and I invited him to taflonline to teach him the rules first (Hagbard, please don't get me wrong, I just don't want to scare him with the big sharks around here! :)) and once he gets into the rules and the game strategy I'll show him aagenielsen and let him fight. I hope he doesn't lose interest, I know kids do things like that.
2017-06-11 19:02:35 xerxes: @Hotfudge: Have played some games with your 'Force Mechanic' proposal and have a few questions, which I have put on the Large Forum.
2017-06-16 09:39:03 Hagbard: The America-Europe final is completed! And the winner is Europe with the scores: Europe 14 points. America 4 points.
2017-06-16 11:18:08 OdinHimself: Go Europe go!!!
2017-06-17 02:51:25 Bigwurm91: Man looks like we in the Americas have some practicing to do. Looking forward to the rematch!
2017-06-17 18:58:48 cyningstan: A brief report on today's live tournament in Hull are available: http://tafl.cyningstan.com/post/1839/hulls-first-hnefatafl-tournament-has-a-winner. The report includes the final match. Congratulations to David Lonsdale!
2017-06-18 20:48:00 OdinHimself: Hagbard, seems like there is some misunderstanding. I only made the designs for my boards, I personally didn't carve these, professional carvers did. But I call them my boards, because they really are mine, my ideas, I paid for them, but I didn't make them, but still the boards are mine. Could you please change the info under my photos, tahnks in advance, I'm sorry once again for misunderstanding my friend. :)
2017-06-19 10:12:53 Hagbard: Congratulations to Animals for winning the Hull tournament!
2017-06-19 14:14:37 OdinHimself: Congrats!
2017-06-20 10:18:17 Hagbard: @OdinHimself: Thanks for clarifying; the text is changed.
2017-06-20 19:05:52 OdinHimself: Only one player of each group will qualify for the final round? There were top two before...
2017-06-20 19:30:13 Hagbard: Top two last year. But last year Round 1 was a different variant (Tawlbwrdd). To reduce the risk of qualified Copenhagen players not making it to the final, two proceeded from each group, and eight players in all. Now with the same variant used for both rounds, one from each group can proceed to the top final. The top final will then be easier to manage for the strong players, only about 10 hard games this year, but 14 last year.
2017-06-21 06:23:04 sqAree: Great rule proposition. With these conditions I would join the tournament this year if I have time.
2017-06-21 08:30:47 Hagbard: - and strong players would probably perceive Round 1 as ten easy games.
2017-06-21 13:14:13 xerxes: I think it is a pity that we are reverting to two rounds of Copenhagen for the World Championship - which should perhaps be renamed the World Copenhagen Championship. If it is going to continue as a purely Copenhagen format, perhaps we could also have an annual triathlon type championship to find the World Champion across the different formats ? This could be run in the spring so as not to interfere with the September championship.
2017-06-21 17:42:07 Hagbard: @xerxes: About the championship, an answer came out somewhat lengthy, so I put it in the large forum: http://aagenielsen.dk/hnefataflforum/viewtopic.php?f=4&p=894#p894
2017-06-21 21:31:20 Steiger: or I can carved a portable (20x20 cm) board with an simple pawns absolutely for free ;-) and a Lucho's board will be a prize for the next year championship (with my pawns, of course - 'till the next year I can carved them for free)
2017-06-22 01:55:20 Casshern: Just a quick thought regarding the World Championships. I like poker and I follow the world series of poker every year. Like talf, there are many different poker games (variants). So for 1 month during the world series of poker they have 50+ tournaments of different games/variants, culminating with the Main Event, which is always texas hold'em. I would say that Copenhagen is our Main Event. But it would be nice to have tournaments of other popular talf games. Copenhagen, Tawlbwrdd, Sea Battle, Fetlar, Berserk, Tablut, Ard Ri, etc. Each tournament can be run at different times depending on number of players and number of rounds. At the world series of poker, the player who does the best overall is named the Player of the Year. The winner of Copenhagen would be the World Champion and we could have a triathlon winner, similar to player of the year. This is just a thought that I had. Some players may enjoy playing other variants more that Copenhagen, however I think that Copenhagen should decide the World Championship.
2017-06-23 18:56:07 OdinHimself: Steiger is one I'm proud of!!!
2017-06-23 20:09:23 Steiger: Oh! thank you very much, I'm glad to know it =)
2017-06-25 15:59:21 OdinHimself: Today me and Lubo (edmont dantes) played two games of Hnefatafl Copenhagen at the local town park Hisarlaka. This was the first time I played live against tafl player who wasn't just introduced to the game and have had some experience. We used the big board with the hand made wooden pieces and the feeling was great. It had an atmosphere that can't be felt infront of the computer screen. Lubo officialy agreed and became the first active member of Hnefatafl sporting club "Odin"! Cheers!!!
2017-06-26 07:28:31 Steiger: Who are those thanes who ride to the thing, peaceful together? Across the land they send their men to seek a home for themselves.
2017-06-26 13:49:03 Hagbard: Where is the verse from?
2017-06-26 13:50:09 Hagbard: An update in the forum about upcoming World Tournament.
2017-06-26 16:16:44 Steiger: @Hagbard: it's 12'th riddle of Gestumblindi from Hervarar saga ok Heiðreks: Hverir eru þeir þegnar, er ríða þingi at sáttir allir saman; lýða sína senda þeir lönd yfir at byggja bólstaði?
2017-06-26 17:50:14 Hagbard: Thanks! Icelandic language.
2017-06-26 17:55:00 Hagbard: Good riddle! I couldn't have guessed it; I googled the answer.
2017-06-26 19:11:15 Steiger: :-) 13th riddle is good too!
2017-06-27 09:44:34 OdinHimself: Tangail in Sindarin or Sandastan in Kuenian dialect means Shieldwall. For Tolkien fans who love Copenhagen hnefatafl... like me. :)
2017-06-29 15:49:33 Fairland: Steiger and odinhimself: I love the boards you guys have designed. They are truly works of art.
2017-06-29 22:11:48 Steiger: Thank you, Fairland!
2017-06-30 07:45:12 OdinHimself: Skal!!!
2017-07-07 11:31:38 OdinHimself: I was reviewing some of Herjan's games in Archives section. Well, there's only one word I can say. Respect! This viking has an unique playing style based on intelect and well-meassured aggression. His games flow soft and joyful like no one elses. It is a pleasure to fight aginst such wise and mighty opponent! Skal jarl Herjan!
2017-07-12 21:20:33 OdinHimself: Just copy/paste and see if you like my new project for the World Championship board. Just bare in mind this is only a project, the real board should look much better... ;)
2017-07-13 09:25:31 Steiger: Great design! I love it!
2017-07-13 16:53:21 OdinHimself: Thanks bro! I'm glad at least one player liked it. Anyway I'll try to do my best!
2017-07-13 19:46:29 Patterson: @OdinHimself I really like the board design.
2017-07-14 20:37:22 OdinHimself: Thanks Patterson
2017-07-20 20:05:58 Plantagenet: @Hagbard What do you think about Knock-out system for tournaments?
2017-07-21 11:28:34 Hagbard: I put an answer in the forum.
2017-07-28 12:07:53 OdinHimself: A song dedicated to The King and the Defenders in Hnefatafl!!! 13 shields blessed with Fury And Fire!!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_P0rG37WtE&feature=youtu.be
2017-07-28 23:43:40 altti: @odinhimself: the lyrics mirror the plot of the movie "the 13th warrior"
2017-07-29 09:41:59 Hagbard: A hnefatafl song! And it takes place on the 11x11 board.
2017-07-29 16:59:54 OdinHimself: I'm glad you like it! :) I know it is an aggressive musical genre, but it has a lot of energy and the lyrics fit perfectly to Defenders. Thumbs up!
2017-08-07 20:46:25 Hagbard: It is such a nice summer weather now, as for Denmark we've had lots of cold days this summer, too. Would it be an idea to postpone the beginning of the Championship a couple of weeks till, say, September 15th?
2017-08-07 22:32:44 OdinHimself: I'm ok with 15.09. Hagbard. No problems at all.
2017-08-08 05:21:38 sqAree: Yes please, 15.9. is nice!
2017-08-08 07:42:29 Steiger: 15.IX - no problem
2017-08-08 15:09:29 Ded Fomich: @Hagbard What are your thoughts in general about the Historical Hnefatafl tournament? What tafl variant are you going to use? Saami Tablut?
2017-08-08 15:25:57 Hagbard: Personally I like the Historical Hnefatafl on all the boards, except 7x7 Ard Ri which may not be the proper one found yet. The Saami 9x9 board is a bit too small for a tournament, in my opinion. The larger boards 13x13 and 15x15 give longer games, which is a problem on the internet where things take weeks or sometimes months... So I would try the Tawlbwrdd 11x11; or possibly after all the 13x13 to get a more complex play.
2017-08-10 09:05:05 Hagbard: Thanks. Championship tournament postponed till start September 15th, if no objections.
2017-08-23 17:19:05 Hagbard: A short introduction to the "Skalk 5thrones 9x9" test tournament: The Ockelbo runestone showed what appears to be a tafl game with 5 king's squares (center and corners). No good setup with historical rules has ever been found for such a game; the best one until now is the Expomedia with balance -1.72 We've already in vain tested all possible setups with corners as they're traditionally described in modern literature, that is king captured against a corner by one enemy piece. This test tournament gives the corners identical power as the throne, in real a simplification of the board, 5 identical king's squares ("5 thrones"). Effectively the rules are just like before, only the king cannot anymore be captured against a corner. So: King captured from 2 sides except in center, wins in corner, cannot be captured when next to a corner.
2017-08-31 08:46:39 Hagbard: casshern won the Skalk strong-corners 9x9 test tournament. Not enough test games to be sure, but the games give a hint that the rules are too unbalanced towards black. If so, then this is yet another way in which "Skalk rules" don't work.
2017-08-31 08:56:23 Hagbard: Introduction to the "Brandubh weak-throne line 7x7" test tournament: The Brandubh 7x7 balance is very thouroughly measured to +1.34 To see if it is possible to have a better balance for Brandubh, the protective power of the throne is weakened a bit: On the throne the king must as before be surrounded by 4 attackers. But next to the throne, the king can now be killed by one attacker against the throne.
2017-08-31 17:00:45 OdinHimself: Hagbard you forgot to add Adam on the missing names list.
2017-08-31 17:23:03 Hagbard: Thanks for sending your thoughts to Adam. But I did speak with him, he's busy this year but will instead be the umpire of the tournament!
2017-08-31 17:38:47 Hagbard: (By the way, I guess you've discovered the group name Gàrtharíki is in honour of the East European players. It's the Viking name for the Kiev Rus state)
2017-08-31 17:40:21 Hagbard: (As Markland is a group name in honour of our American friends. It's the Viking name for the area north of Vinland)
2017-08-31 18:00:50 Hagbard: Slavic speaking players will notice why the Kiev Rus state was called "Gàrtharíki". It's the Slavonic word goroda, towns, Gàrtharíki meaning "the country of towns". This area had in Viking age remarkably many, large towns, very unusual for that time.
2017-08-31 20:31:56 OdinHimself: Next group should be named Miklagard. We, Bulgarians, have lots of revenge to do against Byzantines. Also Harald Hardrada fought with his crew against our forces... "Blind, but still ferocious, Peter Delyan resumed command of the Bulgarians and led them into the final battle against Michael’s forces, which included 500 Varangians under the leadership of 26-year old prince Harald. Norse sagas call Harald “the devastator of Bulgaria”, detailing his victory over the fierce Bulgarian army, led into battle by their blind, wild-bearded king, riding a warhorse and wielding an enormous sword. The fate of Peter Delyan is not known, but he likely perished in this final stand against the Byzantines."
2017-08-31 20:39:14 Hagbard: A wild history! Miklagard means "the Big City" (Konstantinopel).
2017-08-31 21:05:39 OdinHimself: Varyags of Miklagaard set out from Svitjod's shores with dreams of fame and gold! They were loyal warriors that's the oath they gave - to protect the emperor even to a violent grave! Miklagaard was their home for twenty years or more, they had their axes, spears and swords in service of the emperor. Their loyality was always firm, they kept their given word, on these southern battlefields their northern war cries roared!... and so on Hagbard, you should listen more to Amon Amarth's songs lol.
2017-08-31 21:23:08 Hagbard: I heard them on youtube now. Heavy stuff. The comments are good too, "My goldfish heard that song and it transformed into a shark".
2017-09-01 20:39:48 Agmundr: I hope to join this historical battlefield soon. Have some work that have to been done first. Is it the 14th. that is the last chance?
2017-09-01 22:45:35 Hagbard: yes
2017-09-02 15:11:34 Hagbard: Enjoy Steiger's video of tafl sets: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I69VLnYiGGs
2017-09-05 10:10:37 Hagbard: Lucho Panchev ("OdinHimself"), Bulgaria, tells about Hnefatafl in the scientific TV magazine Epohata na Vodoleya: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2i_guzbRIxk
2017-09-05 21:22:49 OdinHimself: Hagbard, your dream came true! Plantagenet finally joined the tafl crew heading to battle and write the historical 2017 WTF Championship ! What I want to see is BLOOOOOOODDDD!!! EVERYWHERE!!!
2017-09-05 21:26:43 Hagbard: ;) true. Perhaps Steiger's excellent hnefatafl board has something to do with it...!
2017-09-05 21:42:08 Steiger: Thank you for posting my video, Hagbard! I'm very flattered!
2017-09-05 21:53:42 Hagbard: Best video ever on the internet on this theme.
2017-09-06 06:34:37 Steiger: Your words warms my heart, Hagbard!
2017-09-06 11:08:30 Plantagenet: Yes, it has totally something to do with it.
2017-09-06 18:50:36 edmond-dantes: how many people go to Valhalla?
2017-09-06 19:00:32 Hagbard: 5, one from each group. Plus sometimes one extra, because if two winners of a group have exactly the same result, they both go. If many more players register, there could be 6 groups instead of 5.
2017-09-06 23:01:59 Hagbard: Remember that the World Championship tournament is for all tafl players and not limited to players who believe they could have a chance of winning it all. It's the annual event where all the tafl community can come together and meet. In Round 1 you'll meet a broad range of players, but in Round 2 you'll be with players of your own strength only.
2017-09-07 20:32:42 Agmundr: Kihtan I believe you are registered for the World Championship Tournament 2017. :)
2017-09-07 21:05:22 Steiger: :D
2017-09-14 08:33:25 edmond-dantes: is it possible to stop the function Current board positions during the championship.To be able to see the games only after their final.My idea is to stop third party intervention
2017-09-14 08:49:24 Hagbard: As for board positions, interesting idea.
2017-09-14 08:53:13 edmond-dantes: OK THANKS
2017-09-14 15:28:56 OdinHimself: Are you ready for a waaaaaaarrrrr?!?!?!?!!!!! W. McWallas
2017-09-14 18:27:57 Hagbard: In 5.5 hours all hell breaks loose
2017-09-14 19:14:25 Agmundr: This is War I Lie Wounded on Wintery Ground With Hundred of Corpses around Many Wounded Crawl Helplessly around On the Blood Red Snowy Ground.. Good luck to everyone! May Tórr give you strenght and Ódinn wisdom.
2017-09-15 01:01:21 Hagbard: Welcome to the 34 players joining the Hnefatafl World Championship tournament 2017, and welcome to the tournament umpire Adam Bartley! Please notice the timing, which is tightened since last year: - The time buffer is only 8 days. - When a game length exceeds 10 days, then over the next 10 days the time per move is gradually reduced from the initial 1 day to 0. - (But even if a player has no time buffer left, he has always 1.25 day to do his current move.) Have fun!!
2017-09-15 09:32:35 Adam: Good luck everyone. Thanks to Hagbard's brilliant programming I expect my role to be purely symbolic. But in cases where the rules or computer decisions are in dispute I will do my best deliver fair and final judgement. Lets have a clean fight, a bloody battlefield, and may the best viking win!
2017-09-15 11:45:47 OdinHimself: Skal!
2017-09-16 09:03:47 OdinHimself: Go, Bulgaria, go!!! Good job edmont!!! :)
2017-09-16 09:38:29 edmond-dantes: GO Kyustendil,glory to a club ODIN .....:)
2017-09-16 09:51:40 edmond-dantes: I wonder if this game will stay the shortest game of only 16 moves.is undoubtedly the first
2017-09-16 15:00:23 OdinHimself: No, it didn't lol
2017-09-18 20:31:16 Plantagenet: Plantagenet leads the score with 4 points followed by Hagbard.
2017-09-21 15:47:34 OdinHimself: Meh-heh-heh... Temporary...
2017-09-21 17:22:37 edmond-dantes: congratulations to my friend OdinHimself
2017-09-21 17:24:02 edmond-dantes: has just made a serious request for the final and world title
2017-09-21 19:06:09 OdinHimself: Thank you Edmont! You're doing quite well too! ;)
2017-09-21 19:13:11 OdinHimself: Gàrtharíki group is the most active of all. Viking battles are raging on, sacrifices have been given to the gods of war, blood has been spilled and blured upon the pagan wooden idols...
2017-09-24 09:32:11 Hagbard: News from the home town of our champ. tourn. umpire of this year: https://niku.no/en/2017/09/batgrav-yngre-jernalder-funnet-pa-torvet-trondheim/
2017-09-24 10:48:26 Adam: JKRS, tomsavini, gokstad, DoktorKarlsrud and Lbalassone will be removed from the champ. tourn. as 'no shows' in accordance with tournament rules. These games will not be counted. Umpire.
2017-09-24 18:22:55 edmond-dantes: we have a newest short game. And it is the game between Brent and Waegn,only 13 moves, adding 2 kill moves the sum is 15 moves Congratulations.....
2017-09-24 18:31:54 edmond-dantes: I have not actually counted a black move. the two shortest games ended in 16 moves
2017-09-25 13:30:28 Hagbard: More from Formby market: http://www.southportvisiter.co.uk/whats-on/whats-on-news/formby-stage-viking-medieval-market-13623116
2017-09-26 09:01:53 Hagbard: So who won Hammer of Thor?
2017-09-26 16:47:24 Agmundr: Only two games finished in the Markland group! A nightmare for one that likes faster games! :)
2017-10-01 10:16:53 Hagbard: Newspaper article about the Formby market Saturday: http://www.southportreporter.com/831/831-1.shtml#axzz4uF51jfid
2017-10-01 16:35:40 OdinHimself: Great! Shared this on Facebook. :)
2017-10-03 09:29:22 Hagbard: Elizabeth's Kitchen Diary's report from the Unst Viking Festival 2017 Sep. 2-3rd: https://www.elizabethskitchendiary.co.uk/2017/09/unst-viking-festival-2017.html/
2017-10-03 10:24:26 OdinHimself: Amazing! Shared on Facebook!
2017-10-03 22:16:20 Hagbard: @players from Formby: Do you know who won the Thor's Hammer this year? And by which rules?
2017-10-04 09:52:45 Bigwurm91: I apologize ahead of time for my slow games. Been a bit busy. I wish the best of luck to everyone for the remainder of the tourney!
2017-10-04 12:12:49 OdinHimself: Yes! First Bulgarian player qualified for World Championship finals ever! I'm pretty sure Edmond-Dantes will be the next one! :)
2017-10-06 17:02:45 OdinHimself: Of course he did! 100% success rate for Hnefatafl SC "Odin"! Two players, two top finalists! Thumbs up! :)
2017-10-09 06:33:06 steiger: Is this the end of the beginning or the beginning of the end? Losing Control or are you winning? Is your life real or just pretend?
2017-10-09 11:09:08 OdinHimself: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77RVbm0cPS0 The beginning - Ragnarök is comming, of the end - Twilight of the gods
2017-10-09 14:29:43 Hagbard: Знаете ли цитату Черчилля в Украине?
2017-10-09 15:07:12 steiger: No, I don't know
2017-10-09 15:13:17 Hagbard: The quote I used, Winston Churchill November 1942: "Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning."
2017-10-12 15:38:10 edmond-dantes: We wait to see Casshern or Bigwurm91,maybe both of us and we go to Valhalla.....
2017-10-12 15:58:17 edmond-dantes: also Sqaree or Animals
2017-10-12 17:25:17 sqAree: Yes, I'm going to the final! If Animals reaches it as well doesn't depend on him anymore..
2017-10-13 12:28:23 animals: Maybe a Grand Masters tournament could be arranged, every few years, to allow new Grand Masters to see how they rate against old Grand Masters.
2017-10-20 17:16:44 edmond-dantes: @Sqaree:sorry for my question, but do you have a winning position in the last game?
2017-10-21 15:24:16 Hagbard: Just for information about the last tourn. game. It looks like: If Sqaree wins: Sqaree goes to the top final. If Marcin wins: Both Sqaree and Animals go to the top final.
2017-10-22 12:32:44 edmond-dantes: @Hagbard:start a second round that the wait kills me...
2017-10-22 23:21:19 Hagbard: @edmond-dantes: Understandable. But the end is near of the Marcin / Sqaree game
2017-10-23 16:42:22 sqAree: @edmond-dantes: Never comment on ongoing games! But now that it is finished I can say I believed I had a lost position (when you asked).
2017-10-23 17:14:59 OdinHimself: What I see is Marcin have made a great progress. Congrats warrior!
2017-10-23 18:12:30 Adam: speaking as Umpire: Tuireann is disqualified for timing out more than half of their games. Round 2 to start Oct. 25 with players distributed as follows: http://aagenielsen.dk/wtfturnering_runde2_2017.php
2017-10-23 18:19:57 Adam: 10-12/16:27 edmond-dantes said: what is the reason why the four world champions from 2013 until now do not try to defend their titles? Why do they surrender without a fight? 10-13/16:24 edmond-dantes said: I can not understand why "Nath" "Schachus" "Adam" "Herjan" did not defend their world titles I can’t speak for the others, but I did defend the title I won in 2015, and got a royal kicking in the 2016 final by Herjan! I chose not to play this year for health reasons that meant my availability and playing ability would likely be compromised. It was a hard decision, but the right one. All being well, I’ll be diving back into the fray next year! I agree that it’s best if a reigning champ can join the following tournament and fight to maintain their crown, but this isn’t always possible, in which case the crown is being handed down to the years best player.
2017-10-24 17:32:44 Marcin: @OdinHimself: Thanks. I learn from the best players.
2017-10-25 00:21:08 Hagbard: Welcome to the 28 players proceeding to the long-awaited Round 2 of the Hnefatafl World Championship tournament 2017! Please be aware of the timing, which is the same as in Round 1: - The time buffer is 8 days. - When a game length exceeds 10 days, then over the next 10 days the time per move is gradually reduced from the initial 1 day to 0. - (But even if a player has no time buffer left, he has always 1.25 day to do his current move.) In this top final, one could say that OdinHimself and edmond_dantes represent all Eastern Europe and the Odin club in Kyustendil, Bulgaria. Animals represents UK and the Fornebei Herfolk club in Formby, UK. Casshern represents all of America, sqAree Germany and Plantagenet France. And you all represent the WTF! Have fun!
2017-10-25 00:36:24 Casshern: Good luck to everyone in round 2! Every group looks well balanced, which should make for some great viking battles!
2017-10-25 00:37:09 sqAree: Have fun in the final! I'm looking forward to getting stomped. :)
2017-10-28 17:01:41 edmond-dantes: I just sent the Casshern soul in Valhalla.The Gods were with men
2017-10-28 17:05:30 edmond-dantes: me*
2017-10-28 17:08:49 edmond-dantes: wowwwwwwwwww
2017-10-28 17:52:27 Casshern: @edmond-dantes: thank you for fixing that typo, or was it a typo? It was a beautiful victory! I fear my men have entered Valhalla in vain. Perhaps, if I had played g11-i11 on move 19 our battle would still be raging. None the less, you saw the path victory and took it, well played!
2017-10-30 19:55:49 Hagbard: Just saw the movie Thor, 2011, in TV. The opening scene is in Tønsberg, Norway, home town of our tournament umpire.
2017-10-31 05:55:12 OdinHimself: @Hagbard: Have you ever heard about the fictional kingdom Blashyrkh, taking place near Bergen, Norway?
2017-10-31 06:24:17 Hagbard: No, I had to google it. They write the place is basis of music - perhaps the music which turned the goldfish into a shark when it heard it...
2017-10-31 06:37:02 OdinHimself: @Hagbard: Lol, yes, their music is grim and frostbitten. But they have some great viking themed songs like Beyond The North Waves, One By One and Tyrants. I doubt you could bear the music itself, but it's worth checking the lyrics, I think you'll like them, every viking's heir should do! ;)
2017-11-01 21:13:19 Plantagenet: @Hagbard Can you create a Fotevikken Tafl version with the same rules except the size of base camps would be 3 squares wide instead of the 5 previously?
2017-11-02 08:47:03 Hagbard: The Foteviken is an attempt from 1972 at interpreting the Linné diary. The interpretation is apparently not correct and a dead end. The variant is on the list because it's interesting that they interpreted this way in 1972 and it is still used at the Foteviken Museum in Scone, Sweden.
2017-11-03 09:03:43 Adam: speaking as Umpire: MrTopom, Patterson, Rasmusruge, Ozgen97 and evando1189 shall be removed from the championship tournament due to inactivity.
2017-11-10 18:49:37 OdinHimself: Fierce winter Black plain Grim warriors Dark domain Bloody axes Cloven shields Violent death Frostbitten fields I think I just composed the text for the runes of my new Saami Tablut tafl board...
2017-11-11 08:44:31 Hagbard: Good poem!
2017-11-13 15:44:09 Brench: I'm as surprised as everyone, Hagbard! It's been fun but I think I need a Hnefatafl break for a few days.
2017-11-14 04:32:55 Casshern: Congrats, Brench!
2017-11-14 07:28:37 Casshern: Sorry Hagbard, this is not the guillotine. The guillotine requires two moves, one to capture and one to reset. The position I used captures every move. Actually, the position is more useful in edge escape games. Only this time I used the corner in the place of one white piece on one side. The guillotine can also be used in edge escape, but depending on the position this alternate "guillotine" may be more useful for edge escape.
2017-11-14 07:35:21 Hagbard: Similar to the shuttle in Nine Men's Morris?
2017-11-14 08:05:14 Casshern: I believe so. They will both end the game faster. The guillotine allows for black to prolong the inevitable as long as black can move pieces from other parts of the board to block. In the position I used black could only block with the men he had on j and k. Once all those men were captured white had a clear path.
2017-11-14 16:17:45 Brench: Thanks, Casshern!
2017-11-14 17:30:55 Brench: Casshern: I just looked at that sequence. It's really clever. It reminds me of a rotary saw. "The Sawmill?"
2017-11-14 18:01:34 Hagbard: Utgarthr is first group to finish Round 2. Looks like Waegn and emabear35 both won the group (4 more players were scheduled for the group, but they fled when they saw the opposition!)
2017-11-14 22:21:00 Casshern: @Brench: It reminds me of a crosscut saw that logger use to cut down trees. The Sawmill is a clever name. I like it.
2017-11-15 11:33:24 Adam: Loving the Sawmill. Brutal!
2017-11-15 12:21:33 nath: To me it's not entirely clear what is part of the pattern, but it basically seems to me just like a one move intro to the guillotine. Capturing a tempo just one additional time. Since j was blocked anyways, there wasn't a second piece to be scarified. But maybe I'm just not getting it, since having a piece at j6, k4 and i1 is overkill and allows for a lot of different white playouts.
2017-11-15 21:52:44 Casshern: @nath: You are absolutely right. It was overkill since white could have played out a number of diffenet ways to get to the corner. I choose "The Sawmill" for educational purposes. To be honest, I dont see a need for the position any strong king variants. But for weak king, it is an end game position for white. Just like "The Guillotine" for strong king. If you search the game archive for my last game against Marcin Welsh Tawlbwrdd, you will see "The Sawmill." I am not sure if this position has been documented or if most players already know about it. But, I wanted to put it out there if that was not already the case.
2017-11-18 12:37:52 xerxes: @Adam. Please would you review my World Championship game as black vs Epm180. We appear to be in stalemate and have agreed to ask your advice. Black has almost surrounded white. Last capture was on move 18. Is this a draw, or a black win due to white almost certainly having to repeat position before black does (though possibly not for a while !) Thanks.
2017-11-18 12:38:37 xerxes: @Hagbard: Can you stop the clock on game until Adam has ruled ? Thanks.
2017-11-18 21:00:05 Hagbard: Clock stopped
2017-11-19 11:37:10 Adam: Speaking as Umpire: @xerxes - regarding World Championship game xerxes as black vs Epm180: While the players are free to declare this position a draw, if played to completion this game would most likely end with white either repeating a board position or being unable to move, a loss for white. It is conceivable that black could make an error allowing white to escape, though this seems unlikely. With the current board position it seems it is only a matter of time before white's hand is forced. So in answer to xerxes question, I would judge this a black win as black is not obliged to close the circle at the corner, but simply to prevent white from escaping. Rule 8b covers this.
2017-11-19 13:16:42 xerxes: @Adam - thanks. Up to White to play on or resign I guess.
2017-11-19 13:52:52 epm180: @Adam @xerxes Regarding my game against xerxes, The last capture was made on move 18, the current move is 85, given rule 10, does that have any bearing on the outcome? If I make it to move 119 without repeating my defending position three times, will the game system automatically recognise it as a draw?
2017-11-19 13:55:45 epm180: @Adam @xerxes And the same question if I repeat the same defending position three times. Just to make sure, as it feels like I already might have done so. I had recalled the rules incorrectly and thought it was repeating the same sequence of moves rather than simply position repetition three time!
2017-11-20 17:39:00 Adam: Speaking as Umpire: @epm180 and xerxes: Further to conversations with Hagbard, close inspection of the epm180(white) vs xerxes(black) game shows that epm180 has in fact already lost several times due to the 8b repetition rule, having repeated their board position 3 times on 3 separate occasions prior to rule 10 becoming a factor. The software has not spotted this fact, which is is why we have a human umpire and human computer engineer to resolve these things. I would urge players to keep an eye on board repetition situations, and flag them up if the computer does not seem to be spotting them.
2017-11-20 19:13:41 xerxes: @Adam: If I have won several times, does that mean I get several points ?
2017-11-21 17:17:03 Brench: Starting a tafl-themed youtube channel if anyone is interested. Just have one not very good video up so far, but hope to eventually review and analyze classic games from the archive if Hagbard is ok with that? link: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCw2HmTo9TSMrOssgui3QciA
2017-11-21 17:35:23 OdinHimself: Good job Brench! I have an idea to make several similar videos in Bulgarian for my FB page! :)
2017-11-21 17:56:07 OdinHimself: Hagbard, do you have any idea which blog is this? http://bellezzaearmonianeigiochistrategici.blogspot.bg
2017-11-21 18:25:08 Brench: @OdinHimself: Now I'll have to learn Bulgarian...
2017-11-21 18:35:27 OdinHimself: @Brench: Lol, I'm afraid it's too complicated... just don't waste your time, we are barely about 10 million people on the planet who speak Bulgarian...
2017-11-21 18:45:24 Ded Fomich: @OdinHimself It’s the blog of Marco (mmagari).
2017-11-21 19:08:27 OdinHimself: Thank you, my friend! :)
2017-11-21 19:35:46 Brench: @OdinHimself: Ok...but I taught myself Irish Gaelic and I think there's probably fewer of them!
2017-11-23 08:27:42 Hagbard: @Brench: Added your intro video to the Rules page. Thanks, good work!
2017-11-23 11:19:17 Hagbard: - and of course you're welcome to use all the archive. I guess two years of games will do it, but you can go all the way back with this one: http://aagenielsen.dk/visallespil_soeg_nath.php
2017-11-23 18:59:42 Brench: @Hagbard: Thanks. I'm going to try and get some kind of holder for my phone for my next video so it won't be so shaky.
2017-11-24 16:52:26 OdinHimself: Hagbard, I'm really surprised you've had a metal band and you never mentioned it! :) https://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Hagbard/3540346408
2017-11-24 16:54:49 Hagbard: I'd say! They look tough
2017-11-24 17:27:08 OdinHimself: Hehe, they do... I like the album covers they have, really viking!
2017-11-24 22:50:37 Hagbard: Looks like Plantagenet and casshern both won the top final! We found the result of the top final long before Christmas just as planned. Except that for the first time ever there seems to be two winners of Round 2.
2017-11-24 22:57:41 OdinHimself: And I guess I take the third place now since Animals lost one of his final games against Sqaree?
2017-11-24 23:05:48 Hagbard: It certainly looks like it, congratulations!
2017-11-25 07:44:22 OdinHimself: Thanks! Last year I ended up 9th, now I'm number 3, so it looks like I've made a progress! :)
2017-11-25 11:35:53 Adam: Speaking as Umpire: Plantagenet and Casshern have tied in the top final. These players will now enter a final round playoff to find the 2017 World Championship winner. The playoff round will begin November 26th. Because of Christmas & New Year this round will have no stepping down of move time until January 1st.
2017-11-25 13:28:07 Hagbard: Timing of Round 3: - The time buffer is 8 days. - From January 1st, over the following 10 days the time per move is gradually reduced from the initial 1 day to 0. - (But even if a player has no time buffer left, he has always 1.25 day to do his current move.)
2017-11-25 19:03:33 Casshern: @Adam @Hagbard: Sounds good, thanks.
2017-11-26 19:15:50 sqAree: As predicted I ranked last in the final. ^^ Probably shouldn't have tried this new white (bad) opening.
2017-12-06 06:28:48 Steiger: It looks like Odhinn will go to France)
2017-12-06 06:52:18 OdinHimself: Congratulations Plantagenet! And congratulations to casshern for the second place, it's huge success too! :)
2017-12-06 11:11:16 edmond-dantes: Congratulations Plantagenet, by me.A real viking who does not know defeat
2017-12-06 15:52:50 Adam: Speaking as Umpire for the last time: Plantagenet is the Hnefatafl World Champion 2017! Congratulations Plantagenet! Our very close second place (has it even been closer?) is Casshern, and in third place OdinHimself. Thanks to everybody who has taken part, lots of great games, and lots to discuss in the forum. Finally, a huge thank you as always to Aage for making this happen, keeping it going, keeping it working, and putting up with all of us!
2017-12-06 16:03:26 Ded Fomich: @Plantagenet Congratulations, bon boulot! Please contact me to discuss the delivery of Steiger’s prize board to you (prize.board.2017@use.startmail.com). @casshern @OdinHimself Congratulations, you get stronger from year to year making the level of opposition in this game higher and higher. Nice going, guys!
2017-12-06 16:04:38 OdinHimself: Now mighty Jarls, lets raise the Bragarfull cup and drink the mead of reconciliation swearing an oath for brotherhood and unity!!!
2017-12-06 16:16:44 Brench: Congratulations Plantagenet! A shame I drank all my honey mead in October, or I'd raise a glass in your honor. My cup of coffee will have to do. Casshern: I have little doubt that you will bring the title to the USA in short order.
2017-12-06 16:52:47 Brench: Off-topic question: Is there a patreon page for the site? If not, maybe there should be to help defray costs of hosting/upkeep etc...
2017-12-06 17:49:11 xerxes: Congratulations to Plantagenet, and also to Casshern - a more than deserving runner-up.
2017-12-06 17:51:19 xerxes: And I second Adam in thanking Aage (Hagbard) for running the tournament - not forgetting the huge amount of work that he puts in during the rest of the year running the other tournaments and keeping the site going.
2017-12-06 18:59:50 Plantagenet: My name is Alexandre Bour.
2017-12-06 19:11:33 Plantagenet: And my e-mail address is alexandre.d3lv4l@gmail.com.
2017-12-06 20:33:48 Casshern: No way, another Alex!!! Congratulations Sir! You are overdue to be a Grand Master. Thank you Aage and Adam for hosting this tournament for us. And thank you to everyone who participated. I hope everyone had a lot of fun. I sure did!
2017-12-06 20:36:21 Casshern: Thank you to everyone for the congratulations!
2017-12-07 06:36:21 OdinHimself: And I would like to give a special thanks to one more man, except the forementioned: Alexander Steiger Dis "Steiger" - a great viking warrior with a great noble heart and golden hands, who on good will and own costs created the beautiful tafl set for a prize!!! ...And ashamed the Western civilization all the way to USA... Respect brother!!!
2017-12-07 12:00:21 Plantagenet: @Ded Fomich Thanks. I sent you a message yesterday on prize.board.2017@use.startmail.com. Did you receive it?
2017-12-07 14:05:50 Steiger: @OdinHimself, thank you for your good words! \m/.
2017-12-07 15:02:57 Ded Fomich: @Plantagenet Received & answered. Sorry for the delay, I’ve just checked my e-mail.
2017-12-08 14:45:02 Kratzer: Congratulations to the winner and all the other great players here! Thank you, Hagbard, for bringing us together.
2017-12-08 16:58:38 Adam: Speaking as Umpire again: Altti and Kihtan are disqualified for timing out more than half of their Round 2 games. The result of Round 2 is: http://aagenielsen.dk/wtfturnering2017.php
2017-12-08 17:26:28 Hagbard: Congratulations to Alexandre Bour for winning the Championship 2017! And a big thank you to the umpire Adam Bartley and to the 29 players who joined and played such magnificent games! And a thank you to Alexander Steiger Dis for offering the beautiful prize, which made for even better games, everyone fighting so hard to win it. Thank you also for those fine videos which enrich the pages. In all, a big thank you to you all for making the tournament a good event. And thank you also for your kind words about the work we do here. Without the fine community of enthusiastic tafl players this wouldn't be much of a site... Like previous years I wrote my (rather technical) version of an evaluation here: http://aagenielsen.dk/hnefataflforum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&p=973#p973
2017-12-08 18:17:39 OdinHimself: Skol! Let Gefion brings us fortune for years to come!
2017-12-08 21:52:24 Steiger: @Hagbard, thank you very much! For me, it's a big honour to be a part of this great community!!!
2017-12-08 22:20:42 Plantagenet: @Hagbard Casshern deserves IM title.
2017-12-09 08:39:34 Casshern: Thanks, Plantagenet. But, I cannot accept a title I did not earn. Besides, there will be more opportunities for me. And I rather enjoy playing this game for the fun of it. I will just have to continue to try to improve my play for the next big tournament.
2017-12-09 14:05:51 Plantagenet: @casshern You did earn this title by reaching the 2nd place at the World Championship Tournament 2017!
2017-12-09 19:53:33 Brench: Don’t know how the World Tafl Federation wants to do it but the World Cher Federation does not award titles based on tourney winners but on overall performance across tournaments...
2017-12-09 19:55:52 Brench: World Chess Federation, that is.
2017-12-10 05:03:39 Steiger: One-eyed went to drink champagne!
2017-12-10 20:29:48 OdinHimself: An outstanding photo Aage!!! God Jul to you too! :)
2017-12-10 23:06:37 Hagbard: Thank you. First snow fell this morning.
2017-12-10 23:07:26 Hagbard: All championship tournament games are finished.
2017-12-11 10:51:34 xerxes: ... must be time for the Berserkers ....
2017-12-11 14:46:08 Hagbard: You're right. I thought about January 1st if we can wait that long?
2017-12-11 20:19:42 Casshern: January 1st sounds good.
2017-12-12 10:35:24 Adam: Berserk eh? Count me in! It would be great to properly test Berserk Alea with a tournament, but we would need more time than is left in the universe to finish.
2017-12-13 12:20:27 Adam: So many nice boards and images in the Gallery now. Inspiring stuff.
2017-12-13 12:21:35 Adam: And the christmas market looks incredible!!
2017-12-14 15:29:01 Brench: Some new Hnefatafl videos up at https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCw2HmTo9TSMrOssgui3QciA. Managed to stabilize the camera, but not entirely happy with the quality of my narration. I'll keep improving.
2017-12-14 16:49:50 Hagbard: Many thanks! Added to the Rules page, if it's ok.
2017-12-14 18:40:33 Brench: Fine with me. I'm still working on the narrative form in these videos, so I hope all will forgive their flaws. I do hope it will reach people and help popularize the game.
2017-12-14 19:04:10 Hagbard: I'm sure it will! I think they're fine
2017-12-14 21:45:36 Casshern: @Hagbard: Should we start taking sign ups for the Berzerk tournament now? So that we can all start at relatively the same time. I am assuming players will still be allowed to sign up even after the tournament starts? Like with most of the other tournaments.
2017-12-14 21:52:34 Hagbard: Yes it will be like the test tournaments: for ten days from Jan. 1st the tournament is open for players to join. But besides that, it could be manually started with some players like the WCT.
2017-12-14 21:57:34 Hagbard: Adam seems to already signed in, 12-12.
2017-12-18 10:53:19 xerxes: So not only is Casshern high on quality, but top on quantity too ! Given that I won't catch-up on quality I will just have to play more games next year ....
2017-12-25 16:59:26 Brench: Joyous Yule to all. I wanted to thank everyone for introducing me to this amazing game.
2017-12-27 08:12:14 OdinHimself: Plantagenet, did you get the board already? Maybe you could post a photo of the new Grandmaster and his prize - the first online World championship trophy in the history of WTF? :)
2017-12-27 21:25:09 steiger: Today, One-Eyed arrived at the border of France. Plantagenet, when you get prize set, please, make a photo of a board with a bottle of champagne.
2017-12-28 17:17:50 jrton80: Well looky what Xerxes showed me! @Hagbard, Thanks I won that one. @Plantagenet: I do feel your pain there in not being to find someone RL to play - but as in Poker, trash talking across a real board is a lot more fun than across a virtual board any day.
2017-12-29 11:30:11 Plantagenet: Enfin! Je viens de le recevoir ce matin. Il y a un peu plus d'une heure. Merci mais je pense que ce sera un peu compliqué pour vous envoyer une photo étant donné que je n'ai ni ordiphone ni clé USB. Finally, I've just received it this morning. A little more than a hour ago. Thanks but I think it will be a bit difficult to send you a photo as I've neither smartphone nor flash drive.
2017-12-29 13:48:21 OdinHimself: Disappointing..... but still, enjoy it!!!
2017-12-30 06:57:27 Hagbard: No need to use your own mobile phone. Somebody else could take the photo?
2018-01-01 08:36:06 OdinHimself: Нappy New Year vikings!!! I wish all of you health and wealth! Let the norse gods be with you and guide your paths!
2018-01-03 18:13:52 OdinHimself: Skal to Koby Norman! Beautiful sets indeed! :)
2018-01-04 10:56:21 Hagbard: Record of berserk runs. Adam once did a tremendous berserk run in an Alea Berserk game, 12 pieces captured in one move. Adam calls the move "The Hand Grenade". In Berserk Hnefatafl 11x11, Jrton80 holds the record. In a game against kAAgEE he captured 6 pieces in one move.
2018-01-06 14:23:00 OdinHimself: Brothers! What do you think about this: https://spectator.sme.sk/c/20730977/ancient-board-game-has-no-parallel-in-europe.html
2018-01-06 17:27:34 Hagbard: Most interesting! Board size 17 and no visible board decoration of special squares, just lines. Wikipedia claims that Ludus Latrunculi boards were smaller. If tafl, this is the first 17x17 board I heard of. I'd like to know what they mean by "pieces of different sizes" and how many pieces. But when Schädler says it's something new and closer to Greek culture, I guess that he as the man with the great overview would know.
2018-01-06 17:40:19 Hagbard: - and by the way, in the case of tafl boards of large sizes like this, they most often have some X-markings scattered around, so that you guided by the X-es can play smaller board sizes within the large board. Historical Hnefatafl rules (Tablut/Tawlbwrdd/...) are scalable and playable on several board sizes. So since this large board is without any markings, this speaks for the game to be something other than tafl. (Though the board, apart from the missing X-es, is made completely in the style of found tafl boards.)
2018-01-07 08:59:58 Hagbard: @OdinHimself: More on the Slovakian game board here! http://www.thehistoryblog.com/archives/50110
2018-01-07 09:06:23 OdinHimself: So, it's a Roman board game, maybe some late variant of Ludus? Anyway, we have another ancient board on our list. :)
2018-01-07 09:08:11 Hagbard: One photo is of good quality and 11x17 squares can be counted. Could be some kind of Ludus Latrunculi, the Roman soldiers' game? http://www.thehistoryblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Poprad-gameboard.jpg
2018-01-07 09:09:45 Hagbard: @OdinHimself: Yes exactly
2018-01-07 09:25:11 Hagbard: I would not be surpriced if Ludus Latrunculi, given the correct rules, would be scalable to several board sizes, just like it's descendant, Hnefatafl.
2018-01-07 09:37:55 Hagbard: - which of course can also be used as a test of rules. I'll claim the hypothesis that if the supposed Ludus rules are not scalable, they are not correct.
2018-01-08 16:59:22 OdinHimself: Shame on them!!! :)
2018-01-08 19:36:54 Hagbard: ;)
2018-01-09 06:18:55 Hagbard: News on the Slovakia board: Schädler has examined the board closely for hours, and one direction has 17 squares, but the length of the other direction is still not known for certain. There will soon be a publication of the find.
2018-01-10 17:55:46 OdinHimself: First BG booklet dedicated to Hnefatafl! https://www.facebook.com/Odin.Hnefatafl/videos/1050515725089020/?timeline_context_item_type=intro_card_work&timeline_context_item_source=100013444904638&pnref=lhc
2018-01-10 18:04:23 Hagbard: Beautiful! I believe I see the Fetlar, Copenhagen, Welsh Tawlbwrdd and Sea Battle tafl 9x9?
2018-01-10 18:55:12 OdinHimself: Almost... it represents game's history, legend, rules of Fetlar, Copenhagen, Welsh, Sea Battle and Saami Tablut (HH Tablut) and also strategies for white and black teams developed by me, photos and brief presentation of SC "Odin" and its main goals. :)
2018-01-11 05:43:01 Hagbard: And Bulgarian is easily read in all Slavic countries? (Fx. Ukraine)
2018-01-11 06:43:02 OdinHimself: Bulgarian could be understand most easily in Macedonia, then Serbia and Russia, harder in Ukraine and some of the former-Yugoslavian countries who use the Cyrillic. And when spoken also the Czech and the Slovaks could understand about 30-40% of the words and less in Poland. Hungary, Romania, Greece, Albania and Turkey have completely different languages, so it's impossible for these nations to understand. Moldovian is very different from Bulgarian too. But I think someone from Belarus maybe, I say maybe, could be able to understand some words in Bulgarian. For example Bulgarian and Macedonian have exactly the same differences like these between the Danish and Norwegian.
2018-01-11 07:09:54 OdinHimself: Yes, Russians could understand about 70-80%, maybe less, but still, it won't be hard for them to get the matter. Maybe Ded Fomich could say if I'm right? :)
2018-01-11 19:54:51 Ded Fomich: At least I can understand most of what I hear in Lucho’s videos or what I read in his poems or other texts. Тангра, чуй моя зов!!! ;-). I’m able to get the gist of it without any dictionary. Actually the generation of people who were born in the USSR is still alive in many countries of the former USSR, so they and many of their children speak Russian very well and I think that they can understand Bulgarian quite good too (but they can’t speak it of course, they just can capture the essence). Belarusians speak Russian not only in everyday life but at the State level too, actually it worries me, I like Belarusian (especially in the form of songs, very beautiful), but far from everybody can speak it good there unfortunately. Ukrainians speak Ukrainian at the State level, but there is a huge amount of people there who can speak Russian brilliantly and they do it in everyday life, so I think that they can understand quite a lot in Bulgarian too. And Ukrainian songs are very beautiful too, by the way =).
2018-01-11 20:40:34 Steiger: Yes it is!)
2018-01-12 06:04:01 OdinHimself: Thank you for the detailed info my friend! :)
2018-01-12 11:16:45 Hagbard: - so there'd be a market for this book cross half the globe.
2018-01-12 13:52:08 OdinHimself: Maybe if it was for sale, but in fact it's free...
2018-01-12 19:36:06 xerxes: The January 2018 issue of Tabletop Gaming Magazine has an article on hnefatafal, including input from David Lonsdale ('Animals') and Damian Walker ('Cyningstan'), and mention of this website. The magazine is available in PDF form from here: http://magazinelib.com/all/tabletop-gaming-january-2018/ (artice starts on page 48).
2018-01-13 11:25:33 Hagbard: That is a fine article!! And very informative! It must wake the curiosity and interest of many readers. I know from the "Nordic Board Game Day" in November here, that many young people play some modern type board games, but when you set up the Hnefatafl board, some in the room turn out to be also very interested in the classic board game and especially the ancient classic ones. And thank you for mentioning the site!
2018-01-22 06:41:15 Brench: My latest Hnefatafl video. Just showing off the lovely set my wife gave me for Christmas: https://youtu.be/GdMZmzhPrG0
2018-01-22 14:50:32 Hagbard: Beautiful! I added the video to the instruction videos on the Rules page, if it's ok.
2018-01-22 16:29:00 Brench: @Hagbard: Feel free to add any videos I make to the page. I'm here to help.
2018-01-22 21:46:10 Hagbard: thank you!
2018-02-02 10:27:46 Adam: Congratulations to Casshern! A true berserker. I am reminded of a description of Achilles from Ovids 'Death of Cygnus' as written by Ted Hughs: The chariot of Achilles, through the Trojans, A tornado through a dense forest, Had left a swathe of shattered trunks, Vital roots in the air, a tangle of limbs." I'd say that pretty much describes what was left of the rest of us!
2018-02-02 13:02:42 xerxes: Achilles had a weakness. If only one of us could find Casshern's ...
2018-02-02 20:02:37 Hagbard: Congratulations to Mario Aluizo (Casshern), Berserker of the year, who swept the table clean and took all the points!
2018-02-03 00:50:13 casshern: Thank you Adam and Hagbard! It was another great tournament. Berserk is maybe the most exciting and frustrating variant to play. I was fortunate this time to have won all my games. I have known many defeats on the berserk field. I am looking forward to Sea Battle now. My favorite variant!
2018-02-05 18:39:18 Steiger: \m/.)
2018-02-05 19:10:01 Ded Fomich: @Hagbard Thank you for posting that in the gallery! Actually there are not only mine photos but also Steiger’s ones.
2018-02-05 19:24:27 Hagbard: thanks, corrected
2018-02-05 21:15:10 Steiger: @Ded Fomich, Then who photographed us, my friend?)))
2018-02-06 15:01:12 Ded Fomich: @Steiger I don’t remember who was that kind man who helped you and used your smartphone to make that photo, I just meant that Steiger’s smartphone = Steiger’s photos.
2018-02-14 09:30:09 Agmundr: For those who likes Nordic music I can recommend this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BPILaMT50k It really makes my blood boil.
2018-02-14 10:16:44 Hagbard: !
2018-02-21 17:28:35 Hagbard: Congratulations to casshern, the score list tells that he is the Sea Tafl Pirate 2018! What about starting the 3rd tournament at March 1st? Historical Hnefatafl 13x13, the winner is Hist. Tafl Viking 2018, since he masters the old game of their own.
2018-02-21 19:11:46 xerxes: Yes, Congratulations to Casshern - no arguing about who was the winner ! And I'm up for HH 13x13 as soon as yu want to start it.
2018-02-28 13:43:49 Ded Fomich: Casshern leaves ruins in his wake, as always impressive result, congratulations! Since all the titles have one main word “Master” (GM—Grandmaster, IM—International Master, NM—National Master), it would be logical to keep using the same word, for example: Berserk Tafl Master—BTM, Sea Tafl Master—STM, Historical Tafl Master—HTM. It's just a suggestion, one of the possible variants.
2018-03-01 11:18:54 Agmundr: Good luck everyone joining the Hist. Hnefatafl tournament! The battleground is ready, may you be victorious or die in honour! Fight to the last drop! 🍻
2018-03-02 11:24:30 Ded Fomich: I hear the brave words, they are full of the true Viking’s spirit—you can not lose, you can win or die in the battle, no other options. Let’s follow that course, the historical hnefatafl rules are fully consistent with that spirit and don’t imply any draws. No retreat, no surrender, to the last drop of blood, skål! 🍻
2018-03-03 08:07:08 OdinHimself: http://nikulec.com/vikings/hnefatafl-vikinshki-shah/ An article about hnefatafl in Macedonian website. Spreading the word...
2018-03-19 08:58:24 Agmundr: Congrats Casshern! You are truly a Tafl Master! Skål! 🍻
2018-03-19 10:07:19 xerxes: Yes, congratulations to Casshern. We will need a new symbol - TP - for Tafl Polymath.
2018-03-21 20:08:12 casshern: Thanks Xerxes and Agmundr! And thanks Hagbard for putting these tournaments together. They were all very challenging. I really enjoyed it. Now, I am exhausted. I need a little break.
2018-03-25 18:13:05 Ded Fomich: I had no doubt that Casshern will prove his title of the heavy tafl shark according to classification of Tim Millar, I wish to pay him well-deserved tribute, congratulations! Many thanks to Hagbard for the organisation of this HH tournament and to all the players for the very nice and tough battles. I wasn’t expecting that I’d like the games on such big board, but the reality has shown to be different. Skál!
2018-03-30 14:18:33 Ded Fomich: Here’s a short video from Dr. Jackson Crawford, an Old Norse specialist and instructor of Nordic Studies at the University of Colorado, about knattleikr and hnefatafl: https://youtu.be/lVKmNxWiqy4 Dr. Crawford runs a really wonderful YouTube channel—it’s about Old Norse, its grammar, pronunciation, about sagas, myths and other related topics.
2018-03-31 10:45:49 Hagbard: Interesting videos about Old Norse language!
2018-04-05 23:13:40 Ded Fomich: And a powerful player from Copenhagen is strongly represented in that overview too! Nice going, gentlemen!
2018-04-05 23:23:15 Ded Fomich: And as judged by results a viking from Vinland runs on mead as Agmundr likes to say.
2018-04-06 09:39:36 Agmundr: Skál! 🍻
2018-04-06 10:50:40 Agmundr: https://www.met-hammer.ch/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/Valhalla-Mjod-Met.jpg.jpg
2018-04-16 00:33:24 Hagbard: This week the players did 6672 game moves, highest number ever for this site.
2018-04-16 10:04:59 OdinHimself: @Hagbard: Hail! This means we are growing in number and knowledge! Viking steel will prevail!
2018-04-16 10:52:56 Agmundr: ᚼᛂᛚᛚ ᚼᚾᛂᚠᛅᛏᛅᚠᛚ!
2018-04-16 14:37:27 Hagbard: ᛀᛂᛗᛚᛁᚷ!
2018-04-16 20:00:43 OdinHimself: So, Agmundr aka Asbjorn Riis said Hail Hnefatafl! and Hagbard answered in Danish - Exactly! Am I right warriors? :)
2018-04-16 22:17:33 Hagbard: Spot on!
2018-04-17 22:19:27 Hagbard: ᛖᚲ ᚺᛚᛖᚹᚨᚷᚨᛊᛏᛁᛉ ᚺᛟᛚᛏᛁᛃᚨᛉ ᚺᛟᚱᚾᚨ ᛏᚨᚹᛁᛞᛟ
2018-04-18 06:35:44 OdinHimself: This is hard! I can't understand what you say Hagbard.
2018-04-18 08:01:36 Hagbard: Famous inscription, Old Norse, on the golden horn from 400's, ek hlewagastir holtijar horna tawido, I Lægæst son of Holt made the horn.
2018-04-18 08:27:45 Hagbard: 400's, the same time as the first tafl board found.
2018-04-18 19:50:10 OdinHimself: Ek hlewagastir holtijar horna tawido is what I got from the runes too, but it just didn't have a translation from Danish to English. Now I see why, it's an Old Norse, my native language when I was a viking in one of my past lifes...
2018-04-18 20:17:19 Hagbard: ;)
2018-04-20 10:08:28 Agmundr: Picture of a tafl piece found in Oslo. https://smp.vgc.no/v2/images/e23c6dbd-b45a-4043-96a9-d3298d46e99e?fit=crop&h=1000&w=1000&s=4688a65908f042a668ffb4f0133ea64a005cedb4 The article: https://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/i/XPV2n/nytt-middelalderfunn-i-oslo-vekker-oppsikt
2018-04-21 09:54:26 Hagbard: Nice game piece! Looks like a slice of a bone. They liked decorations in those days, but perhaps the circle decorations could also be used to distinguish types of pieces?
2018-04-25 09:11:31 casshern: I would love to play another American tournament. Hopefully Altti and Bigwurm will join. It has been a while since I have played them. I would vote for Copenhagen. I think Copenhagen is our preferred variant. At least, it is the first game that I learned to play.
2018-05-02 03:19:40 Bigwurm91: Hey sorry to my fellow North, South and Central Americans I will not be participating in the American tourney. I am a bit busy working and studying Chinese here in Beijing. I hope to be back from my hiatus in the next month or 2. Also, if my ip looks funny my vpn is probably turned on. Good luck to everyone and may the battles be bloody and well faught!
2018-05-02 20:48:21 Fairland: I haven't been on in a long while. Bit of a crazy year at work. I will go ahead and participate although I am from from "at my best" so to speak.
2018-05-14 19:43:28 OdinHimself: Bulgarian warriors of Tengri taking over the northern lands by storm! Great Khans gather their tribes! Bowstrings will prevail!
2018-05-15 01:19:58 casshern: Congrats Bogd Khan on the victory! The Bulgarian invasion continues to grow stronger.
2018-05-17 21:13:24 Hagbard: The 15x15 test tournaments are finished, and Casshern cleared the table and won max points in both. A big thank you to the players for doing these tests. All archaeologically found board sizes are now thoroughly tested (7, 9, 11, 13 and 15), and well working setups are now known for them all. It has taken 8 years to come to this point!
2018-05-18 08:39:43 Hagbard: The winners of the American Championship tournament are found: Gold to California, silver to Fairland Schools Hnefatafl Club and bronze to Canada! Congratulations to IM Mario Aluizo ("casshern")! And thank you to the players; it was nail-biting to follow this tournament!
2018-05-18 16:13:37 OdinHimself: Skal to Mario and all the vikings who participated!
2018-05-19 20:15:16 Ded Fomich: Today I played with Steiger in chess club «White Rook». We paid special attention to See Battle Tablut 9×9 (not Imperial Contest—we came to the conclution that the king’s move limitation is not required). We played many games and in one of them we faced with an interesting problem, it relates to the perpetual repetitions rule. Here is the position in our game: https://bit.ly/2rSuDME The matter is that the king (cargo ship—the aggressive player) and the attackers’ ships can make moves indefinitely without repeating of the board position for three times, for example the simplest variations with only one attacker: h6-h7 i6-i7 h7-h6 i7-i6 h6-h8 i6-i8 h8-h6 i8-i6 h6-h7 i6-i7 h7-h6 i7-i6 h6-h8 i6-i8 h8-h6 i8-i6 h6-h8 i6-i8 h8-h6 i8-i6 h6-h7 i6-i7 h7-h6 i7-i6 h6-h7 i6-i7 h7-h6 i7-i6 And so on ad infinitum, there are several possible combinations. Two attackers can be involved in moving, but it doesn’t matter—one or two—the result will be the same: both sides will move endlessly without threefold repetition. How this situation should be judged if nobody wants to surrender in keeping with the Vikings’ spirit? Is there any rule in Sea Battle Tafl for such situation?
2018-05-19 20:44:07 Hagbard: Interesting case! But also here there are a limited number of pieces involved in the repetitive patterns and a limited number of squares, so inevitably sooner or later a board position will occur three times. In this case the king can be on one of 4 squares, and the 2 black opponents can be in 2 of 4 squares. That is 4 x 6 = 24 possible board positions, one of which will be repeated for the third time after 49 moves at the latest. So if the king goes on like this, he'll lose in the end.
2018-05-19 20:44:33 Hagbard: It is however tedious if you have to wait 49 moves for this obvious thing to happen. In the software of this site the rule is interpreted such that a repetition like this is detected only after 6 moves: The king side steps back and forth - 2 moves The king again side steps back and forth, possibly using two other squares, but still it really is the same side step on the same line. 2 moves. The king side steps again back and forth on the same line, again possibly using two new squares but still the same line and the same situation. 2 moves. The king lost!
2018-05-19 21:04:40 Ded Fomich: @Hagbard Oh, I see. I thought that the position should be repeated for three times immediately and only in this case it can be recognised as a threefold repetition. Now I see that this is just about any three positions not necessarily in a row. So, the king is lost. Nice to hear that, thanks!
2018-05-19 21:07:37 Ded Fomich: The possibility of a draw in such exciting game as Sea Battle would have broken my heart, I’m implacably opposed to draws. Actually there is nothing more depressing than a draw!
2018-05-19 22:51:39 Hagbard: Draw is a speciality of the Fetlar game (draw forts and draw by repetition). For all other variants I assume that it is only possible for king-win-in-corner games (Copenhagen, Old Hnefatafl and Berserk) and only in the case where both parties are prevented from winning because of too few pieces.
2018-05-20 09:03:41 Hagbard: One could wonder if the draw perhaps is a foreign element in the tafl game. The details of the Fetlar game were decided on by the Fetlar Hnefatafl Panel. In consultation with Tim Millar, who knows the Panel personally and went to the island Fetlar for the World Championship twice and won, it was decided to keep the Fetlar rules as they are anyway.
2018-05-20 09:43:52 Hagbard: The American Championship tournament is finished after 13 days, and IM Mario Aluizo won with max. points.
2018-05-20 13:13:08 Ded Fomich: @Hagbard I assume the same thing, that’s one of the reasons why I don’t play variants with the corner exits. Also I had doubts regarding Sea Battle Tafl because of my misunderstanding of the repetitions rule, but you have just eleminated them. I remember that I followed a game from the WTF Championship 2016, Crust played with Herjan, 167 moves (!) and it ended in a draw, I was very disappointed. But that’s just my personal opinion (Steiger always calls me a «cornerphobe»), international practice shows that corner tafl variants are the most popular variants, a lot of players really enjoy them, and Copenhagen Tafl is an unrivalled leader among all the variants. And I have no doubts that that all the variants have to be represented and saved—Fetlar, Old Hnefatafl and so on. The players should be able to choose and play those variants which rules they really like. All those variants are, after all, parts of the modern history of the game.
2018-05-20 13:19:33 Ded Fomich: By the way, in comparison with chess, where the absolute majority of the games are played to a draw, one can say that Copenhagen Tafl has no draws, their number can be neglected. For example, Harry Kasparov wrote in his book that at the level of grandmasters white wins in 29% of cases, black wins in 18% of cases, draws comprise 53% of cases. But huge amount of people enjoy chess in spite of draws. According to the most conservative estimates, 200–300 millions of people play chess, according to FIDE estimates, 600–650 millions.
2018-05-20 13:22:15 Ded Fomich: But I’m not one of them, as you may have guessed =)
2018-05-20 14:40:31 Hagbard: Though you probably have the essentials of board games from a long chess career - as I suspect that all the top players here have... The measures against draw here are general for any variant other than Fetlar: - Total surrounding of white is a black victory (except Berserk where pieces can jump). - Repeated side stepping is a loss (the side stepping is easily recognized by human players, and also by the computer) - Repeated white moving in the constraint of a draw fort or similar position is a white loss. (Actually practically all repetition is a white loss.)
2018-05-27 09:54:15 Hagbard: Tønsberg Middelaldersfestival, Norway, June 1st-3rd!
2018-05-28 21:37:58 Fairland: Hagbard, have you heard of the Castle of Muskogee and the Rennaissance faire they have there?
2018-05-30 01:00:27 Fairland: Yes! I saw your comment about tønsberg. I live just an hour and twenty minutes from there. It is largely post viking age, but I have seen the occasional tafl board for sale.
2018-05-30 06:14:40 Fairland: By there, I mean the Muskogee Castle. .
2018-05-30 06:49:10 Hagbard: If you happen to some day get a photo of a tafl board there, or other photos of the activities, I'd like them for the gallery.
2018-05-31 11:34:46 Hagbard: I wonder if Kalabalik comes to Tønsberg the next three days: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcnVTKkDd-8
2018-06-01 10:06:29 Hagbard: Ard Ri-1 7x7 is on the list. In the test tournament 76 Casshern won all games both as white and black, which of course is a good sign about the balance. However, it could be the "Crust-effect". In the first years of testing a lot of variants from 2010 forward, Crust was the stable opponent for the testing. And strangely, nearly any variant came out balanced. The reason was that whatever the rules, Crust would win all games whether white or black. When other players tried the same rules, the result was much different... So we could likewise have a "Casshern-effect" with the Ard Ri-1...
2018-06-11 23:40:18 Trygve: What about a Scandinavian tournament in a strong king game?
2018-06-11 23:45:57 Hagbard: Could be possible, we are 7 Scandinavians. Planned for next tournament is Old Hnefatafl 13x13, but I suppose that a Scandinavian tournament must be with a longer notice.
2018-06-12 16:25:54 OdinHimself: @Hagbard: Correction! You're 8 Scandinavians. Don't forget I'm a viking at heart. My second name is Olve Eikemo and I'm from Bergen, Norway. So, you can count me in! ;)
2018-06-12 20:37:55 Hagbard: It's difficult to gather all in the summer time, therefore the American tournament was in April. Perhaps we could have the Scandinavian one at Sep. 15th (same as World tournament round 1)?
2018-06-12 20:58:07 Hagbard: - And at the same time an Eastern tournament among the 8 Eastern vikings?
2018-06-13 17:30:31 Trygve: Scandi-tourn with Old 13x13 sounds perfect! Looking forward to Sept 15! I've never played against Odin Himself, my forefather 37 generations back, he's high ranked, maybe I could give him a hard time with black, but with white he would be a big favourite.
2018-06-13 17:32:07 Trygve: Sorry, not 37, but 51 generations back!
2018-06-13 19:05:08 Hagbard: That is, a normal Old Hnefatafl 13x13 tourn. starts in two days. Which strong king variant we'd want for Sep. 15th is up to suggestions. Just not Copenhagen, which is used for the world champ. tourn. And which variant the Eastern vikings would want for a tourn. Sep. 15th is totally up to suggestions, again just not Copenhagen.
2018-06-20 02:27:19 Fairland: Research-based "Viking- Age color palette" article. http://sciencenordic.com/how-decorate-viking
2018-06-21 12:33:45 Ded Fomich: https://youtu.be/Jfh4P9wDy7c ”Kalinka” from Iceland is also very nice. Skál! 🍻
2018-06-22 11:43:45 Trygve: ᚨᛚᚢ ᚨᛚᚢ ᛚᚨᚢᚲᚨᚱ! Alu Alu Laukar!
2018-06-23 17:03:29 Trygve: Yeah, that's a good question, and a bit of a paradox actually. You can capture the King on the edge with three blacks, but not a pawn will stand. Old doesn't have the Shieldwall rule either, so I agree it's a subject worth to discuss.
2018-06-23 17:04:29 Trygve: It should of course be: ..but a pawn will stand.
2018-06-24 00:12:14 Hagbard: Old Hnefatafl, as Trygve said - the king can be captured on the edge by surrounding including edge and corners. But the common men are captured as usual.
2018-06-30 09:13:28 Steiger: Saami Tablut 9x9!
2018-06-30 10:48:44 Ded Fomich: If the list includes Saami Tablut, I always vote for it, it has the highest priority for me. The Eastern tournament is a tournament for players from the Eastern Europe?
2018-06-30 11:30:43 Hagbard: Yes, I suggest the Baltics, Poland, Chechia, Slovakia, Hungary, all the Jugoslavias, Romania, Bulgaria and etc. eastwards. This is the area of the old river ways.
2018-06-30 11:33:24 Hagbard: Likewise Scandinavia would be Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Finland and Iceland. The five Nordic swans.
2018-06-30 11:41:30 Ded Fomich: @Fairland I saw the forum information that you studied Old Norse, where did you studied it and what is your opinion about Dr. Crawford’s YouTube channel (https://youtu.be/-g7MWQRuNjk)?
2018-07-10 14:17:21 Hagbard: Dmitry Pashkov from the Geek Wars club in Moscow has offered three prizes for the Championship tournament September 15th !
2018-07-10 14:48:21 Steiger: Great news!!!
2018-07-10 22:36:05 Hagbard: Photos of three championship prizes are added to the tournament page. How many fine, handmade boards can even the best player use at the same time? I propose that if a Valhöll winner already earlier won this prize, then the prize goes to the next highest winner. If fx. winner #1 already won a handmade board last year, then this year's prizes go to winners #2, #3 and #4.
2018-07-13 07:43:06 Steiger: I think that Plantagenet will not support this idea :)
2018-07-13 07:44:26 Steiger: If he, of course, will participate in the current championship.
2018-07-22 06:36:48 Fairland: @Hagbard. I understand your desire to evenly distribute boards to all members, especially if we have an "unbeatable" in competition, but I am not sure it is fair for the winner to walk away without his prize. maybe we could work toward an alternative solution?
2018-07-22 08:58:11 Hagbard: It's just a suggestion - it's really up to the players to decide. By now there seems to be one vote for and two against.
2018-07-25 17:54:55 casshern: I also think the winner of the WTC should be given a prize, if there is one offered, regardless of whether they have won a prize previously. Thats just the way it is in competition. To the victor goes the spoils. It is up to everyone else to improve their play to challenge the champion.
2018-07-29 21:40:59 Hagbard: There's not been much support for the prize distributing idea. It looks like the distributing should be the straighforward: winner #1: board 11x11 winner #2: board 9x9 winner #3: figure king or berserk By now 18 players registered for the World Championship tourn. Last year 34 players registered, and the three rounds scheme this year can easily handle all known tafl players in the world! As the motto of sport goes: the most important thing is not to win, but to take part.
2018-07-30 08:52:00 OdinHimself: @Hagbard: I thought we are vikings here? The strongest of us all gets the lion's pie. He takes everything - the crown, the land, the prize, the power and the glory, the most beautiful women and ale in the kingdom etc. Everyone else take what they can get. Isn't it how it was since the beginning of time? :)
2018-07-30 19:37:56 Hagbard: quite ;)
2018-08-17 08:14:41 Adam: Straightforward prize distribution makes sense to me. Fantastic that we have enough prizes that we need to distribute them!
2018-08-19 09:09:50 Hagbard: The umpires are found: Adam Bartley, Norway ("Adam"). For Adam's games, umpire is Aage Nielsen, Denmark ("Hagbard"). For Adam/Hagbard games, umpire is Mario Aluizo, USA ("casshern"). Since there are three prizes, it might be necessary this year with rematches not only to find one #1 but also to find one #2 and one #3.
2018-08-22 22:10:44 Steiger: @ Madphill, Наведём шороху, камрад!) \m/.
2018-08-27 13:17:22 Hagbard: If no objections, two winners per Round 2 group proceed to the final. And the Scand. and East tournaments wait till after the World Champ. tourn.
2018-09-05 09:49:19 Agmundr: As a traditional European I can recommend this video as a inspiration for us all. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kj3S9b03Kkg
2018-09-05 10:03:08 Steiger: Good video, Agmundr. Thanks!
2018-09-06 13:08:00 Steiger: I want to greet new players: Mihkkal, Olle and Fireflo. Salute and welcome!!! This one is personally for Fireflo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMg2SDmAmIM
2018-09-06 15:44:01 Steiger: May it be so!
2018-09-14 19:28:51 Adam: Regarding double player id's. Obviously it is illegal to enter the tournament as two players. Policing this, as all else online, is impossible. It will always be possible for people to abuse a system and the trust of those who use it honestly. Hagbard does what he can by monitoring ip address use, but ultimately this and any other online system can be abused. As it's unlikely we'll all be traveling to a conference centre to play under strict chess federation conditions any time soon, let's hope this community is honest enough to play fair, and smart enough to weed out any cheaters. Good luck everyone, let the games begin!
2018-09-14 23:25:31 Steiger: Every one of us has heard the call
2018-09-14 23:43:06 Hagbard: May Odin give you knowledge on your path, May Thor grant you strength and courage on your way, And may Loki give you laughter as you go.
2018-09-15 09:40:13 OdinHimself: @Steiger: Brothers of true tafl, proud and standing tall! :);) @Hagbard: Good words brother! Live like a viking, fihght like a viking and die like one, this is my life motto! :) Be brave and aggressive, be prepared! Be honest and outspoken and the power will live and burn inside of you. No treachery could harm you if you trust in your own abilities and no foe will survive if you believe in the gods and your heart! Let battle commence, sound the Gjallarhorn and rush into the taflfield! I wish everyone of you who take part in this competition best of luck and many strong fights, brilliant victories, honorable defeats, worthy opponents and medieval viking adventures and nevere forget we're all brothers here, respect each other, have dignity and be a great man! ...The shadowing voices of our gods singing on the calling wind... where the cold waves and the longboats brought us far...
2018-09-15 10:08:47 Steiger: have dignity and be a great man!
2018-09-15 10:11:26 Steiger: Hey! Where's me on the championship?
2018-09-15 10:15:27 Hagbard: @Steiger: players not yet started will start in Round 2.
2018-09-15 10:16:49 Steiger: понял!
2018-09-15 10:37:59 Steiger: Brothers the battle is raging Choose your side Sing with us the BATTLE HYMNS INTO GLORY RIDE HAIL TO ENGLAND THE SIGN OF THE HAMMER is our guide Forever we're FIGHTING THE WORLD Side by side On a crusade
2018-09-15 11:36:56 Ded Fomich: Good luck with your games in the championship, brothers and sisters in tafl! Þórr yðr þiggi, Óðinn yðr eigi! Skál!🍻
2018-09-15 18:42:52 xerxes: Hadn't realised I was not going to in be in Round 1. I've taken two weeks off work, stocked up with beans and bread, and been through a rigorous physical training session to hit my peak this morning. (Some of that may not be true ...)
2018-09-15 23:02:58 jrton80: A Viking pray (stolen and lightly edited from Glenn G Thater's Harbinger of Doom series) for the WTF Hnefatafl Championship Tournament 2018 Call: Look unto the north and behold the BiFrost and beyond - ancient Asgard, shining and bright, through and cold as stone. The ice, and the sea Response: To the north lies Asgard Call: Now look to the east and behold thy brothers, thy sons, and thy comrades Now look to the the west and behold the sisters, thy wives, thy mothers, and thy daughters Response: Around us are out kinsmen, always. Call: Now think not again of them until we march on the homeward road Response: Not until our homeward road. Call: Now look unto the south and behold thy father, and thy father’s father, and all thy line afore thee, back unto the beginning. Response: Unto the beginning. Call: Now look forward and behold thy fate. Before thee lay the paths to victory and glory, and the paths to defeat and disgrace. Intersecting these paths are the road to tomorrow, the road to Valhalla, and the road to darkness Response: Beware the dark road Call: Now my brothers, vow thy path Response: To victory and tomorrow if we can, to victory and Valhalla if we must. This we vow. Call: This we vow Response: This we vow Call: Rise now my brothers and go to thy fate with Odin’s blessing
2018-09-16 08:13:32 OdinHimself: @jrton80: Very good! Skal!
2018-09-17 08:24:23 Steiger: Valuable prizes added fire to the championship and community!!! ]:>
2018-09-17 08:40:51 Steiger: But growth and development are impossible without overcoming the trials! Stay humans!
2018-09-17 09:41:05 Steiger: @Plantagenet: comment est le père borgne de la discorde?
2018-09-18 21:59:19 OdinHimself: The competition is now turning into a real battle! The skies are grey, darkness covers the fields, icy winds blow on Vigridr plain... the shadow of death crawls from the frozen ground and summons the newborn spirits of the just now killed warriors... and the living become its mortal weapons used only for spreading the law, the law of the killing, dying, smashing skulls, annihilatiion, more blood and more dead... but there they are: the most powerfull and fearless slayers of them all, the slaughter machines of the Viking age, the sons of Thor - the Berserkers!!! Goooooing berseeeeeerk - as I rush into battle, going berserk - as I feel the smell of blood, going berserk - as I crush your skull, going berserk - I am high on death!!!
2018-09-19 17:08:36 OdinHimself: @Kratzer: Skal brother! May Tyr steers your javelin right into the hearts of your enemies and grants you great victories! Fight bravely and your time will be remembered, your time it will be known, by your sons, by your tribe and by the sun, the sea and moon. For he who battle for his land, his pride and for his men, shall be remembered and stand eternally named in the legends of your land. Lets pen the saga together! :)
2018-09-21 08:46:50 Adam: Speaking as Umpire: I confirm that Sybil, Rew, Juman, Harry64, Mjølner and Melody.pond be removed from the championship tournament for not showing up 5.5 days into the games.
2018-10-02 19:45:49 Hagbard: Harry sent this link: https://www.hakaimagazine.com/news/viking-chess-with-whale-bones/
2018-10-08 19:31:05 Adam: Speaking as umpire: Jrton80, Marcin, mccluskeyp, Olle, Arevidar and Brench have qualified for Round 2. Round 2 will start Oct. 11th at 18 o'clock Danish time. Set an alarm!
2018-10-11 15:40:45 jrton80: For the rest of the Vineland group, just in case you do not know: 18:00 Danish time works out to be Noon EST which make no sense but there it is. Time Zones: As a general rule, are 15 degrees of longitude adjusted for population centers, governmental broader or regional differences but for some reason I have never read about most of Continental Europe is GTM +1 when looking at a map it appears it should be GTM +0 - So tell me guys - Do you really hate the Brits that much that you cannot even share a timezone? (Sorry Hagbard - I know you have heard that joke before)
2018-10-11 17:49:59 Hagbard: May Thor grant you strength and courage on your way. @jrton80: The English sleep an hour longer, but we like to get up early!
2018-10-16 08:04:47 Adam: The following games Hagbard / Olle Olle / Casshern Olle / Hagbard Casshern / Olle Are to be removed and restarted. Foul play is suspected by Olle, with moves being copied across games such that Hagbard and Casshern are effectively playing each other. Such copying of moves in parallel games is henceforth illegal and will result in immediate disqualification. It will be at the umpires discretion to decide wether it is move copying or coincidence. Umpires decision will be final.
2018-10-16 08:08:37 Adam: Previous message was speaking as umpire as is this. As Olle has deregistered the games will simply count as losses for Olle as in a timeout. The new rule about parallel move copying still stands of course.
2018-10-17 19:43:00 Adam: @ Edmond-dantes - I would argue that copying from the archives is not a problem, it's no different from learning strategies in a book about chess. In fact, its essential for the games development. Any given live game will soon enough diverge from a copied game. This is why the Umpire's judgement and discretion is essential. As opposed to the board repetition rule which is in much more competent hands with the computer deciding. This one was spotted by Hagbard around move 17, so the copying was clear. An interesting case, yet another challenge for online tournaments.
2018-10-17 22:24:33 edmond-dantes: @Adam:thanks for the reply
2018-10-24 17:25:40 xerxes: Congrats to Casshern
2018-10-31 19:28:19 Plantagenet: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUfj3IHkzBQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wynIv_hrl-4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t82tjWL0les https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuIwqA437yU
2018-10-31 19:48:59 Steiger: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgXBhnZGlLk
2018-10-31 23:08:59 Plantagenet: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOzwkXG3ZbQ
2018-11-01 06:20:49 OdinHimself: @Plantagenet: I've never heard of Black Magick SS before, but I'll take a listen. I already downloaded their discography. Their genre has been defined as raw occult rock, which sounds pretty rare and aslo interesting to me. I think you've made a progress in your musical predilection.
2018-11-01 10:39:40 Steiger: I know that is scary night is over, but this one exclusively for Plantie: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJH-V7Th_DM
2018-11-01 13:33:04 Plantagenet: @Steiger Yes, I forgot to add: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92gFOReey3M
2018-11-01 15:23:30 Steiger: magnifique
2018-11-01 15:43:56 Steiger: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FIyJtDvYac
2018-11-01 18:53:47 OdinHimself: I prefer this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTPDmZx3gKk A Viking war song about Úlfhéðnar, wolf warriors and Odin's elite fighting forces. Úlfhéðnar were totemistic combat heroes who were feared for their unique martial skills and their ecstatic fierceness, which they would fuel by performing shapeshifting rituals and weapons
2018-11-02 07:04:52 Steiger: This: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHdUCDbyB5g makes my blood boiling!\m/.
2018-11-02 11:39:46 Steiger: My congratulations, epm180! We both go to Valhöll.
2018-11-02 20:40:01 casshern: Congrats Steiger and Epm180!
2018-11-03 06:14:05 Steiger: Thank you, Mario!
2018-11-07 18:31:01 Plantagenet: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6M7M6cFZFk
2018-11-10 18:47:23 Adam: Speaking as umpire: Casshern, Epm180 and Steiger (both 6 pt. and both Sonneborn-Berger 17 pt.), Khan Asparukh, OdinHimself, Adam and Sqaree qualified for Round 3. Round 3 starts Nov. 13th at 18 o'clock Danish time. Set your alarm!
2018-11-13 17:14:20 Hagbard: May Odin give you knowledge on your path.
2018-11-13 17:43:03 Steiger: No one knows, friends or foes, if Valhalla lies beyond the grave https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qf88-EDi7FI
2018-11-13 19:00:06 OdinHimself: Good luck everyone! https://www.streetdirectory.com/lyricadvisor/song/wpoppu/dragons_of_the_north/ Keep the viking spirit alive!
2018-11-14 19:44:15 Plantagenet: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AJzvwgXPQ8
2018-11-19 07:46:17 Steiger: :P https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHky5J-oXtY
2018-11-19 17:06:57 OdinHimself: Agreed. I also think that the game must stay as much medieval and unmodified as possible.
2018-11-20 17:39:02 OdinHimself: @nath I mean I would like to see Hnefatafl games or tournaments involoving players who use their own brain, their own ideas and their own past or present mistakes to prevail on their opponents, just as it was back in the past when vikings played it. Artificial intelect, engines, computer programs could ruin all that. Definitely your idea is a good thought, a good intention, but it is a bit dangerous for the game's future. Engines destroyed the fun of playing chess and this is an existing risk for hnefatafl as well. Once I said I love this game and our mistakes are which make it fascinating. If we play like robots I will not take part. :) But still I deeply respect your urge for improving the game. Although I would like to see game's improvements made by human's mind, upgraded by human's mind and lead to almost perfection again by human's mind... if you get what I mean. This is how we'll keep the game "medieval and unmodified", and yet improved. I just don't want the tafl viking spirit to be killed by computers. Not this one.
2018-11-21 09:10:59 Ded Fomich: If we take chess as example, then one can say that a keen interest is in live competitions between humans, not between two computers or between human and computer. Such competition between humans implies a contest in psychology, mind working, in the art of composition. Computer doesn’t have compositional sense, it is still not able to learn compositional manoeuvring. Humans can play using that, not to mention that computers’ domination is the result of unequal competition conditions from the very beginning. Human created computer and the development of software is on the path to increasing of processing speed and amount of data, not on the path to digital intelligence. Computer has all information (debuts, endgame positions, etc.) and when a similar situation arises it just uses the base that has been laid. Human needs much more time to remember what he learned and to make a decision.
2018-11-21 09:14:01 Ded Fomich: In chess players has always had a principle—when a game starts you must not have access to the sources of information. But chessmen started by inertia playing with computer by its rules. It would be more honest to withdraw the data bank from computer or give humans enough time and access to the same data bank.
2018-11-21 09:14:36 Ded Fomich: *have always had
2018-11-21 09:20:12 Ded Fomich: Moreover, metaphorically speaking, for human it is not interesting and pointless to compete in running with a self-driving car. In contrast, the live humans competition with live emotions offer a spectacle to take your breath away, even in the era of computers, something like the confrontation Karyakin—Carlsen for example, after their games the interest to chess in Russia skyrocketed again. Chessmen use chess software just for preparing, but the interest is in live games between humans, computers are not able to kill this spirit, I wouldn't worry about that, @OdinHimself. So, give to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and give to God the things that are God's—give to computer the things that are computer’s, and give to human the things that are human’s.
2018-11-21 09:24:30 Ded Fomich: If only there were not all that goddamn draws in chess! In my opinion draws kill the game of chess, not computers =)
2018-11-21 18:22:40 sqAree: Eh, you might actually underestimate the complexity of tafl. Maybe @nath could write something about this, as he definitely thought about game complexity and knows one thing or another about the topic..
2018-11-22 09:44:01 Ded Fomich: And I have something to say regarding @Casshern—from time to time we play series of very nice games (mostly Tablut and Sea Battle Tafl), Mario almost always beats the tar out of me :-). But the insinuations that he makes only the best moves and makes no mistakes are fundamentally wrong. Very rarely he even loses sight of moves which could ensure a victory in a game, computer wouldn’t miss them. And we often discuss the gameplay while playing, he tries to play new debuts and tests new tactics. Mario just learns from his mistakes and from mistakes of other players in archive games and has fun, he has outstanding talent in the field of tafl games and he always plays a fair pair of games with everyone (in contrast to Plantagenet who plays only for one side). My respects, Mr. Aluizo!
2018-11-22 12:23:22 casshern: I am actually on the fence about a strong tafl engine. On one hand I would love to find out what the best lines are, but then it could be the end of the game. However, even though the game is rather simple, I agree with others that it is still very complex. When I analyze games from Plantagenet, Nath, Schachus, Herjan, Odinhimself, etc, often times I have no idea why they make certain moves. For example, h1-h3 followed by g5-g2 is a very common move played by these “stronger” players. I have tried this opening myself, but I am just not comfortable playing it. Maybe it is the strongest opening for white. Maybe an engine could find out for us. I don’t know. Even if it is discovered to be so, I probably still wouldn’t play that opening. I just don’t really understand it. To me, that opening could be blocked by black 100% of the time. As long as black doesn’t make any mistakes. And we could play an infinite amount of games against each other and never really know for sure. Or we could create an engine that could have the final say on the matter.
2018-11-23 10:01:27 Hagbard: Yule celebration at king Harald Bluetooth: http://aagenielsen.dk/hnefataflforum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&p=1067#p1067
2018-11-23 10:59:55 Steiger: @Hagbard: here is a rissian version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzQ-kL9tyQU
2018-11-23 11:00:42 Steiger: *russian
2018-11-23 11:37:04 Hagbard: @Steiger :) !!!!! That's it, and the whole chapter! Thank you.
2018-11-23 12:53:57 Steiger: I have this book and I adore it from my youth.
2018-11-23 12:58:29 Steiger: @Hagbard: I took the hint ;-)
2018-11-23 13:23:51 Agmundr: Hail to you all, and a healthy (divine) mind! I think all this discussion only shows that we have different interest in the game. Some are interest in analysing the game to the ground, others want’s the computers to take over the job so we don’t need to think yourself and improve our mind. And we have a group that is only concerning about they score, and where they are on the top score and only plays games they are certain to win. I don’t judge anyone, people are free to do what they want. Why I play this game? I think of this a heritage from our ancestor and are playing as I think they used it for. As an entertainment and mind improvement game. Learning strategies before battles or calming they down in the dark hours of winter, when we only see daylight for four hours or less. They didn’t have electric then and the only light was from their fireplace or candles. For the time I have played this game I have never written down any games or looked at my old games for improving the next. I know that is why I learn slower and not are higher up in the top score, but I don’t care, it’s not my goal. A new game, a new task, a new battle! And for the record I am not a small or a big fish, I am a warrior! an Einherjar! I always play my games with respect and honour! Skál stríðsmaður! 🍻
2018-11-23 15:38:45 OdinHimself: @Agmundr: You spoke well my viking brother! This is exactly the viking spirit I need to feel in all of you. Your words are mine. If someday I happen to visit Norway I'll be glad to meet you and play a tafl game against you while fire burns at the fireplace and mead warms our tirsty throats. Skal!
2018-11-23 17:47:12 Agmundr: @OdinHimself: That would be great! Skál my viking brother! 🍻
2018-11-24 05:23:08 Brench: Nath: I know we’ve talked about this before...I do want to develop a decent hnefatafl bot. I am usually just too tired to follow through. I do AI for a living so taking on a full dev role would be pretty daunting. I’d love to be part of an open source team tho.
2018-11-25 20:31:22 Brench: For myself, I’m interested in a Hnefatafl engine because a) I want to improve my game,b) am interested in the mathematical underpinnings of the game and c) am interested in AI. Will some people use it to cheat? Probably. Will I? No. And I have to believe that most people are here because they enjoy the game and not because they want some rank on a website which is, ultimately kind of meaningless.
2018-11-25 22:39:32 Plantagenet: If you create a Hnefatafl engine, call it "Alphatafl".
2018-11-26 16:36:29 Brench: @Plantagenet. That may be raising expectations or asking for a lawsuit from Google :). Also it may have been done: https://blogg.blank.no/alpha-tafl-c394faef2c0f Can anyone here read this?
2018-11-26 18:44:43 OdinHimself: Once more I am going to back up edmond on his last statement according Brench. As I said before a good tafl engine is going to be a heroin for those in pain. Once made with good intentions, heroin quickly turned to be more evil and dangerous than its predecessor - the morphine. For those who doesn't know Heroin comes from Heroic (sounds pathetic right now). As they say "The road to hell is strewn with good intentions". Believe me, edmond may not be as much polite as we would like, but he knows what he's talking about. He has a huge experience in chess and is right about one thing - an engine will kill the joy, the genuineness / unpretentiousness of the game, its spirit. It will be much more fun and safe if we develop it slowly and without using machines. Totally agreed. I know that here's not the right place to post this, but I'm in grief. A friend of mine passed away... He was true... Einherjars are with one more now. RIP R. I'll meet you there...
2018-12-04 22:32:36 Adam: Speaking as Adam: Hello tafl community. I want to put an idea out there for folks to think about. The Tafl Federation facebook page has been woefully inoperative for a long time now. It does still serve as a signpost to this site of course, but it can have a life of its own given the input. At present Crust and myself have editing access. Crust has been absent for a long while and shows no signs of returning any time soon, and I am largely removed from online life. So I propose that people are nominated and two voted in by the regulars here to act as chairman/vice chairman. It's as much or little work as you want it to be, and the only thing I would say is that one should be as objective as possible, and wherever possible promote the rules played on this site. This after all is where the federation is in reality, its us playing hnefatafl. Lets see what people think. If we get enough willing nominees we can set up a voting post on the forum.
2018-12-04 23:24:11 sqAree: Great idea Adam, online presence is important these days!
2018-12-05 10:20:22 xerxes: Yes - and an out-of-date site does more harm than good.
2018-12-05 19:47:09 OdinHimself: Skal, Steiger!
2018-12-06 06:02:56 Steiger: Thanks! That was fun!
2018-12-12 06:53:20 Steiger: Salute, Mario! Well done!
2018-12-12 09:46:29 xerxes: Well played casshern
2018-12-12 17:32:15 casshern: Thank you Alex and Steve!
2018-12-12 19:36:05 Adam: Congratulations Mario!
2018-12-12 19:41:45 Adam: Great to see so much interest in the Wtf chairing. In answer to a good question, there is nothing legal in the Wtf set up or structure. Crust and I wanted to start something'official', but it's official only on merit. The moment the community thinks it's unneeded or unwanted, it evaporates. I think to be official one needs stable employees and therefore funding. We've had no luck with that yet, so the job is to keep playing and building and linking people.
2018-12-12 20:13:21 Adam: I think the idea of a duo who cover modern gaming and the viking history is an excellent idea. Outside of a few websites, viking/historical events are the only arena that consistently presents hnefatafl to a new audience.
2018-12-14 18:15:49 OdinHimself: Go, Bulgaria, go!!! :)
2018-12-15 21:21:24 OdinHimself: I want to thank all my opponents for the beautiful and tough games we played and wish them luck, future progress and a Happy New Year! Congartulations to the champion and big thanks to the organizers and the sponsors! Long live hnefatafl!!!
2018-12-15 21:59:15 sqAree: I don't think your games against me were very tough for you. :P I never saw a chance.
2018-12-16 07:52:05 OdinHimself: @sqAree: About the games - not true. There are no easy games in the final group. Only experienced players there. So every game, every move is a battle of titans. :)
2018-12-16 17:29:44 Hagbard: Any news about the Play Tafl Online site?
2018-12-17 18:15:05 OdinHimself: A special musical greeting for my friend Steiger! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aObCe5mKmT Pagan spirit! ;)
2018-12-17 18:16:50 OdinHimself: Correct link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aObCe5mKmT0
2018-12-17 19:27:10 Steiger: @OdinHimself, thanks! Orizen - never hear it before - I like, reminds me Falkenbach, but more severe.
2018-12-20 06:42:52 OdinHimself: Go, Bulgaria, go!!! :) Although I love Germany and support the Manschaft in all footbal championships, I love Bulgaria most! And Khan Asparukh was the founder of Bulgaria, our first glorious ruler of many more! And although Lubo (Khan Asparukh) has his own individual thought pattern and don't respect the small fish (including the small golden fish, i.e. me) I am not a narrow-minded person and cannot hate people because of their beliefs. That's why I will support him in his participation in the WTF championship till the end and show him my respect. I would love to see him holding the bronze medal and ranking Bulgaria on 2 top places! Go, Lubo, go! :)
2018-12-21 14:46:45 sqAree: I'm going to come back to play normal tafl games regularly here now, after like 3 years of absence. I'm too annoyed about my level of play in the championship and need some training. :/
2018-12-25 09:25:50 Adam: Speaking as umpire: It's official! Casshern has won the World Championship Tournament 2018 and is the Hnefatafl World Champion 2018! OdinHimself takes second place and sqAree third place. Thanks to everyone for a great tournament!
2018-12-25 10:03:31 OdinHimself: Congratulations and big thanks to all bravehearts who fought in the battles and glorified our beloved viking board game! :)
2018-12-25 17:02:04 Hagbard: A big congratulation to Mario Aluizo who well-deserved won the World Championship Tournament and even without losing a single game! A thousand thank yous to my co-umpires Adam Bartley and Mario Aluizo, who very much took part in the planning and in the running of this tournament! And to Dmitry Pashkov for kindly offering three wonderful prizes for the three top winners and thus increasing the tournament suspense! And a big thank you also to the 26 players who participated and made an exciting tournament!
2018-12-25 22:44:07 sqAree: Congratulations to casshern and Odinhimself! I'm very happy about my rank. Inherently I wanted to reach the final, then my goal was to not place last in the final. Would've have never thought I could become 3rd. :)
2018-12-26 08:42:26 Hagbard: A week ago I emailed to the administrators of Play Tafl Online and asked for news about the site which is down for the time being, but have not received a reply.
2018-12-26 10:56:26 Ded Fomich: @Casshern @OdinHimself @sqAree Congratulations! Nicely done, gentlemen! Please contact me (bergsaenger ÆT disroot DOT org) to discuss the delivery of your prizes. When the New Year’s hysteria has subsided, all the prizes will be sent by Dmitry to the winners (after the New Year‘s break). We have an extremely heavy post offices’ workload at the moment.
2018-12-26 11:06:26 Ded Fomich: @Hagbard One sleepless night, I managed to talk to Tuireann during his online stream (https://www.twitch.tv/tuireanntv). He hasn’t enough time now to reanimate PTO and add some software features, all we can do is wait.
2018-12-26 12:53:32 Hagbard: @Ded Fomich: Thanks for the info
2018-12-27 07:32:51 Hagbard: Posts about the Grandmaster list: http://aagenielsen.dk/hnefataflforum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&p=1077#p1076
2018-12-27 16:39:20 xerxes: @Hagbard: I echo your congratulations to Casshern, OdinHimself, and sqAree. I'd also like to thank you for putting in the time to organise a well-run World Championship. I also agree with your thoughts re Grand Masters on the main Forum.
2018-12-27 20:19:17 Steiger: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uf7WDbjAEkE
2018-12-27 20:30:10 Steiger: @OdinHimself: I like only first EP and first album of Anathema.))))
2018-12-28 20:08:58 Hagbard: Code of Conduct added: "You should not post any abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful or threatening material. Doing so may lead to you being immediately banned for a period of time." This text is copied from the large forum where it is built in in the software.
2018-12-29 17:38:39 Ded Fomich: @Casshern @OdinHimself @sqAree Thank you all, your letters are received & answered, please check you mailboxes. If you don’t get an answer, just let me know.
2018-12-31 22:52:16 tuireann: Answered some questions about the state of PTO and the use of AIs in the forums: http://aagenielsen.dk/hnefataflforum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=108
2019-01-01 10:34:00 OdinHimself: A Happy New Year everyone! Let it be better and more successful! And filled with many tafl victories!
2019-01-01 14:16:19 Steiger: С Новым Годом!
2019-01-02 09:51:22 Hagbard: @tuireann: Thank you!
2019-01-03 13:10:09 Semargl: Есть с кем поиграть оффлайн в Питере?
2019-01-03 21:35:20 Ded Fomich: @Semargl На этом сайте активных игроков из Питера я не встречал, к сожалению.
2019-01-03 21:50:35 Semargl: @Ded Fomich: Жаль, что у нас тафл плохо развит. И у кого тогда учится? Аглосаксы и болгары сильные игроки. Но они и так вне сайта играют. Школы, учителя есть. Федерации создают. В этом плане молодцы.
2019-01-04 11:01:16 Semargl: What's this game? http://aagenielsen.dk/zmijovich2/33040765_1259021580896210_8010473706256072704_n.jpg
2019-01-04 11:10:32 Hagbard: Daldøs. Much used in Moscow Geek Wars club also: http://aagenielsen.dk/steiger/35228481_1734405593310813_3052956444413394944_n.jpg
2019-01-04 11:12:49 Steiger: @Semargl: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%C3%A1hkku
2019-01-04 12:53:48 Semargl: Thanks, it's really Sáhkku set.
2019-01-04 17:53:19 Mihkkal: @Semargl The game in the first picture is a sáhkku game. The board design and the king piece gives it away, although the pieces are of untraditional design. Sáhkku is a Sámi family of games that id separate from but related to Danish/Norwegian Daldøs. Sáhkku and some other old Sámi board games are having a small revival these days. Tablut included, although some types of Sáhkku and Dablo are (so far) more popular. For more info see https://m.facebook.com/Daabloe/ (open English-language page) and https://www.facebook.com/groups/2085478548176555/ (group).
2019-01-04 18:58:06 Semargl: Where can I play Sáhkku and Dablo online?
2019-01-04 18:59:36 Semargl: @Mihkkal: Where can I play Sáhkku and Dablo online?
2019-01-04 19:07:27 Ded Fomich: @Semargl Строго говоря, тафл повсеместно не очень хорошо развит. Федераций как таковых нет, но есть клубы, их очень немного (болгарский клуб «Один», например), здешние игроки лишь изредка вживую с оппонентом за доской играют, в основном рубятся в сети, где самая сильная оппозиция. Учебников, пособий и аналитики практически нет. И всё это усугубляе&
2019-01-04 19:09:58 Ded Fomich: *усугубляется большим количеством правил и размеров досок. Этот сайт является центром притяжения очень сильных игроков со всего мира, здесь есть внушительный архив игр за несколько лет, по нему и учимся.
2019-01-04 19:12:08 Ded Fomich: Также постоянные игры с сильными игроками способствуют обучению. Так и живём.
2019-01-04 19:38:53 Semargl: @Ded Fomich:Хорошо, возьму информацию на вооружение)
2019-01-04 19:42:07 Steiger: Не вешаем нос - оттачиваем мастерство!)
2019-01-04 20:04:16 Mihkkal: @Semargl Unfortunately there's no possibilty to play Sáhkku or Dablo online yet. So far the whole Sámi game revival is IRL only. But particularly the Dablo games are very well suited for online play.
2019-01-04 20:25:21 Semargl: @Mihkkal: Very interesting games) I wish you success in your endeavours!
2019-01-05 11:20:28 xerxes: Perhaps the next tafl quadrathon could include an underwater event ? ( https://www.fromthegrapevine.com/lifestyle/diving-chess-sport-takes-age-old-game-underwater )
2019-01-05 15:59:10 Agmundr: For those that wants more games and training in different tafl games i can recommend the app Hnefatafl by Philippe Schober. You can play against the AI and online. If you don't have a android smartphone or want it on the PC, you can install a emulator like Bluestacks https://www.bluestacks.com/ My game name is Agmundr78 Skål! 🍻
2019-01-05 17:38:52 Mihkkal: @Semargl Thank you, and likewise!
2019-01-08 09:12:30 Mihkkal: Is there any way to permalink to a match replay? When I go to a replay the url is only the generic http://aagenielsen.dk/visspil.php I can't figure out how to share links to concrete games with other people.
2019-01-08 16:11:14 Hagbard: Sorry, there's not a permalink. But the start timestamp is a unique identifier, fx.: Mihkkal / Casshern. Tournament 123, Historical Hnefatafl 9x9 (Saami Tablut), 26 moves, 2018-12-28 18:37:44, black won (Casshern)
2019-01-15 18:22:12 Steiger: Casshern and Fomich, your last game in the tournament 123, is the most epic spectacle I have seen lately. Splendid! Well done!
2019-01-15 19:33:18 Bogd Khan: Congrats Casshern and Ded Fomich! Amazing game! Unfortunately Ded Fomich made big mistake in 105 move...
2019-01-16 06:28:30 OdinHimself: @Steiger: I was intrigued by your words and used the Replay option to watch the game. I have one word only: Skilled! Masters of steel and masters of fight! And here's the special musical salute for you Steiger ;) The so called Medieval Black Metal. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOcoZQuaxoc
2019-01-16 07:09:29 Steiger: @OdinHimself: Thank you, Lucho! Fun track, especially because of the mouth harp.) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8fjhuf9XXw ;-)
2019-01-16 07:26:21 Steiger: @Bogd Khan: Bogdan, regarding the 105th move, I do not agree - the f4 attacker was under attack and any other move would not have solved the situation.
2019-01-16 14:24:53 Bogd Khan: I didnt check the rule withe the king capture next to the throne, my mistake
2019-01-16 15:00:16 Ded Fomich: Thanks, gentlemen! It was a really great battle, blood and guts everywhere =). Actually I think that I’ve made the main mistake (or even several mistakes) much earlier than on move 105 (I was almost a goner on move 105, nothing could help me) and after that tried in agony to make things right again. I need to look through the game later with a fresh mind. And I never imagined that it’s possible to play a Tablut game so long, Tablut surprises me again and again. The draw is not possible using historical rules, so it was a fight to the last drop of blood and the best warrior won, the fallen one went to the Valhǫll. Skál! 🍻
2019-01-22 04:32:40 Volkenpuk: Some music I listen to, on occasion. I'm new by the way and excited to play many games with you all. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRg_8NNPTD8
2019-01-22 11:33:36 Steiger: Danheim Radio (Live Viking Music Radio - 24/7) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHtDgnOE3Kw
2019-01-22 19:28:35 Volkenpuk: @Steiger, that is a good station I did not know about, good recommendation.
2019-01-22 20:07:29 Steiger: @Volkenpuk: I'm glad you like it.
2019-01-22 20:17:49 Semargl: Is Ad Elta Stelpur game really Scandinavian historical or modern? I found the rules only in French.http://www.abrabadaboum.fr/nos-locations/jeux-en-bois/article/ad-elta-stelpur?fbclid=IwAR38kMgJvHlBof2OL6OtMWIsQRN89zZ0LJtejpRm3xHio9-4kVDZMeJv664
2019-01-23 07:10:42 Steiger: @Semargl: https://skyruk.livejournal.com/288965.html
2019-01-23 10:30:11 Semargl: @Steiger: I think Skyrk is mistaken about many things. When he is excited, he add his own style.
2019-01-23 10:39:10 Steiger: @Semargl: Yes, it is not excluded - quite possible.
2019-01-25 09:16:14 Mihkkal: A session of Tablut and other old board games in Tromsø this week: https://tinyurl.com/ybjkrvto Once there was a Tromsø Tafl Laug, does that still exist? There will be a course/game evening featuring Tablut and Dablo im Umeå (Sweden) as part of the Sámi Week festival in early March.
2019-01-26 12:52:22 OdinHimself: Do you know that Bulgaria has been under Ottoman slavery for 500 years? During this period there were many uprisings. Men became rebels and went to the mountains to fight the oppressors from there. Songs have been made for the most fierce of them. One of the most famous songs about such man is "Came out rebel Delyo". It's a Bulgarian folk song from the central Rhodope Mountains about Delyo, a rebel leader who was active in the late seventeenth and early eighteenth centuries. The song is most famously sung by Valya Balkanska, a 1977 recording of which was included on the Golden Record carried on board the Voyager 1 and Voyager 2 probes in space. "Came out rebel Delyo; rebel true grit; with fellow Dumbovtsi and Karadjovtsi clans; asking Delyo warning; the opressors and the tyrants: -I have two aunts in the village; don't you dare convert them (in Muslim) don't make me come for you; your mothers will mourn you; and more so your wives. Gulsum (his beloved) cautions: Listen Delyo, be wary; for they collude, Delyo; the opressors and brazen-faced tyrants; casting silver bullet for your demise; -Gulsum, my love; not yet is born a man who could kill me; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahluybb0T0A Bulgaria has roots...
2019-01-26 14:12:05 Hagbard: The way of singing is somewhat similar to traditional Norwegian: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRT8_m8aoow
2019-01-26 20:32:21 Mihkkal: When it comes to the Skyruk blog: interesting, but some critical notes. - There's no written or archeological source linking Daldøs to the Vikings. The game is known at the earliest from an 1870s' book. The story of the book is set in the 1600s. It could of course be older but there's no evidence. - Daldøs is obviously related to the other games in the "Tâb family". How and when these games have spread and changed, and where the first " Tâb style" game was invented... No certain knowledge, just theories
2019-01-26 20:51:33 Mihkkal: More on Skyruk's post: - He's very much wrong about sáhkku being limited to coastal parts of Sápmi. The earliest possible reference to the game is by an author from the inland, in the 1600s. The earliest certain reference is from the Lule Sámi inland during the mid-1800s. The game is also known from the north coast and east coast+inland. - To say that Sámi culture is "homogenous" (odnorodnaya) betrays little knowledge about us. We have ten different languages, for one thing. And as for our traditional board games: each district has had its own unique variants of those games. Traditional Sámi board game culture is *very* heterogenous. - Sáhkku was very much "invented by the Sámi" in the sense that Sáhkku is a unique sub-family of games in the larger "Tâb family" of games, and that this sub-family is only found among the Sámi. - Again, all statements on how "Tâb style" games have travelled and "mutated" are speculations.
2019-01-26 21:02:28 Mihkkal: Continued on Skyruk's post: - "Arab game in the North Pole" is a phrase coined by a French researcher in the 2000s. Locally, sáhkku has always been known as a Sámi game. - That the "Vikings" brought the game to the north is very speculative. 1) It is not known that the Vikings did play tâb-type games. 2) The Danish-Norwegian Daldøs is exclusively known from the extreme southwest of Scandinavia. This is far, far away from the central-northern-eastern part of Sápmi where Sáhkku is traditional. There should be a tâb-type gaming tradition in between if Sáhkku comes from Daldøs or the other way around. It is more likely that the two games share a common ancestor.
2019-01-26 21:14:37 Mihkkal: ...even more on the Skyruk post. - That the Sámi are/were not sailors is also a statement that betrays lacking knowledge. Medieval Norse sources describe the Sámi as sought-after boat builders, and Sámi participated in the settlement of Iceland. Most of the Sámi population has always been coastal "Sea Sámi". - Sáhkku was still in play to the 1960s according to published articles, despite efforts by evangelists. (Yet-unpublished research material I have, show it was some places in play until the 1990s - but of course this is somethibg Skyruk cannot know). - Earliest clear written reference to Sáhkku: 1840s, not 1870s. Possible mention also 1600s. - Sámi " c" is pronounced "ts" and not "k". So "pirttsu" and not "pirkku". - The idea of "princes" in Sáhkku is a speculation from the researcher Itkonen. It has no support in any source. - Regarding rules: please note that Sáhkku is a family of games, not one game. There were different variants in different parts of Sápmi.
2019-01-26 21:23:48 Mihkkal: More on the Skyruk post: - There's a misunderstanding here about the hats. The four-corner hat is also a hat for men. Some female sáhkku warriors do have hooked tops though, and these symbolize the ladjogahpir hooked hats for women.
2019-01-26 21:34:24 Mihkkal: Final note on the Skyruk post: it's an impressive piece of work, but when it comes to the section on Sáhkku it suffers from some lacking knowledge about Sámi history and culture that leads to some dubious conclusions. Regarding historical development: if the "tâb family" did originate in the Middle East, I think the geographical distribution of Sáhkku and Daldøs makes it more likely that "Tâb games" came through Novgorod to Sápmi and was in Sápmi turned to the Sáhkku games, whereas Daldøs has a separate connection to the Tâb family. Regarding the rules, all I can say is that research has marched on, and that the revitalized Sáhkku games currently played in the north use other rules than those presented here. They can be found in the Daabloe network's group (https://www.facebook.com/daabloe) in various languages.
2019-01-27 16:45:12 Steiger: Thank you, Mihkkal, for such detailed and deep comments.
2019-02-11 17:20:47 Mihkkal: Crash course and free playing of Saami Tablut and South Sámi Dablo in Umeå, Sweden on March 6th. Venue: Västerbottens museum, 18:00-21:00. http://www.sahkie.se/event/spela-gamla-samiska-bradspel/
2019-02-14 10:23:07 Ded Fomich: N. B. PTO is alive! The beta site is available for playing (beta.playtaflonline.com). It still needs fixes, but it’s reanimated. It’s not supporting Safari browser now, but works well using Firefox on Apple devices.
2019-02-16 07:33:15 Hagbard: Building of the Royal Viking Hall in Lejre, Denmark: http://nyheder.tv2.dk/samfund/2019-02-16-kaempe-vikingehal-udfordrer-nutidens-byggeri-vi-springer-over-hvor-gaerdet-er
2019-02-16 16:26:04 OdinHimself: @Hagbard: Wow!!! Amazing! :)
2019-02-17 22:49:10 Hagbard: Building of a 700 metres Viking Bridge: http://nyheder.tv2.dk/lokalt/2019-02-17-verdens-laengste-vikingebro-tager-form-paa-vestegnen
2019-02-18 05:39:39 OdinHimself: @Hagbard: Can I join? :)
2019-02-18 08:06:07 Hagbard: I'm sure. The bridge is built by volunteers, many volunteers.
2019-02-19 08:24:57 Hagbard: Congratulations to Khan Asparukh, who won the Historical Master tourn. and the HIST trophy! #2: casshern. #3: OdinHimself.
2019-02-19 10:43:34 OdinHimself: Congratulations to this Bulgarian player, even though he's anonymous. 🍻
2019-02-22 07:51:41 Hagbard: From March 1st we find again a Fetlar Master. Last time was seven years ago in 2012, and the winner was then Tim Millar ("crust"). The "Old Hnefatafl" rules have been used in Russia, fx. in a tournament at The Middle Ages Festival in Staraya Ladoga 2010, organized by the St. Peterburg Varangian club Ulfgard. Would it be an idea to also find an "Old Hnefatafl" Master?
2019-02-23 01:06:42 casshern: @Hagbard: I think an Old Hnefatafl tournament would be great. Though I know I wont play, I have no objection. I have very much enjoyed the tournaments these last few months, going back to the WTC last fall. However, there are 2 more variants that I long for, Simple Tafl and Imperial Contest. Might I suggest these 2 variants for next year’s Quadrathlon?
2019-02-23 07:12:32 Hagbard: If no objections, Simple 11 and Imperial could be used next year. To get more experience of their working, after the Master rounds now could come: April 15th, Imperial ordinary tourn. May 1st, Simple 11 ord. tourn. Planning to next year take Berserk out of the quadrathlon and turn it into a triathlon with the three basic king types, which would then be Copenhagen (WTC) + Sea Imperial 9 + Simple 11. Already now the triathlon scores can be calculated for 2018 and 2019 as well.
2019-03-02 23:20:56 jrton80: @OdinHimself: I have read your comment on the Ottomans a couple of times, but the memory I have of the Bulgars in history is constance cycle alliances and rebellions against the Byzantines - I just think 500 years is too small a number, from about the 11th Century, I think, the first time the Byzantines conquered Bulgaria but I have never been very good with remembering exact dates.
2019-03-03 07:35:14 OdinHimself: @jrton80: 1018-1185 - years of Byzantine slavery. 1396-1878 - Ottoman slavery. Bulgaria has had two enslavements. Unfortunately...
2019-03-03 07:45:19 OdinHimself: @jrton80: By the way today (03.03.) we celebrate exactly 141 years of freedom. On this day - 03.03.1878 Bulgaria has been liberated. Today is a National Day for Bulgaria. It is a very complicated topic.
2019-03-03 07:54:54 jrton80: @OdinHimself: I never will forget: I was smoking a cigarette, reading my book which annoys me to no end when this rather lovely Bulgarian girl (too young for me even at the time) was being rather a bit if a bitch started talking to me, when I said, after she told me she was Bulgarian, "Ah, yes, the Bulgars, they use to give the Byzantines a hard time, now, didn't they" The look of amazement on her face, is impossible to describe, but it is funny how well we got along after that
2019-03-03 10:43:05 OdinHimself: @jrton80: We used to give hard times not only to the Byzantines. You should take a look at this article when you have some free time: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Bulgaria
2019-03-03 20:05:48 OdinHimself: Hagbard, is this really true? lol Europe according to the Danes https://i.postimg.cc/vmrrTwHD/53303555-10216356016511470-5097383623456194560-n.jpg
2019-03-03 20:10:46 OdinHimself: Do we have an Iceland vikings here? https://i.postimg.cc/pd3fXQjV/46949335-1912421858833342-8366412480892633088-n.jpg Vodka! lol
2019-03-03 20:13:56 Hagbard: The person who drew the map seems to know some Danes well -
2019-03-03 20:29:27 Hagbard: Is there a Bulgarian map?
2019-03-04 07:29:02 OdinHimself: @Hagbard: Yes. One of Europe and one of Bulgaria itself. https://i.postimg.cc/L4bpr6b2/43f5b6fd2996191a247b7a145e2eaf36.jpg and https://i.postimg.cc/vB8yd1yH/dfe5e13cffe8cef2ff4bb34335033ba1.png It's a joke of course!
2019-03-04 07:43:20 Hagbard: Good joke!
2019-03-04 11:24:05 Ded Fomich: @OdinHimself Vodka, matryoshka, balalayka and bears! =)
2019-03-04 11:24:32 Ded Fomich: https://cdn-images-1.medium.com/max/2600/1*GVtiOLMmIj1Q56qCBmbaxQ.png
2019-03-04 11:26:17 Ded Fomich: Mordor! LOL Yanko Tsvetkov is a funny guy!
2019-03-04 17:36:43 OdinHimself: "When the young prince Haelfdane Hnaef, brother of Hildeburh and thus brother-in-law of king Finn, stayed at the stronghold of king Finn in Frisia for the celebration of Yule, a first fight broke out between the Danes and the Frisians."
2019-03-04 20:02:10 Hagbard: Beowulf?
2019-03-05 16:26:13 OdinHimself: Yes, Finn and Hengest: The Fragment and the Episode by Alan Bliss and J. R. R. Tolkien. The legend...
2019-03-07 09:23:45 Hagbard: Congratulations to Casshern who won the Saami Master tournament! #2: Ded Fomich. 3#: Steiger.
2019-03-09 07:04:05 Steiger: Congrats, brothers of tafl! Well done!\m/.
2019-03-13 07:11:22 Hagbard: 40 meters Viking longhouse found from space: http://nyheder.tv2.dk/lokalt/2019-03-13-40-meter-langt-hus-fra-vikingetiden-fundet-paa-google-earth
2019-03-14 05:46:12 OdinHimself: @Hagbard: Yep, it was mine.
2019-03-23 22:48:09 Hagbard: Seen distant northern light tonight!
2019-03-24 07:14:43 OdinHimself: @Hagbard: You should add to the Code of conduct also "irritating material". lol Teasing people who don't have the chance to see Aurora Borealis is slightly dirtily. :)
2019-03-24 08:05:39 Hagbard: Saw it for the first time in my life; I've been very annoyed for the many times the news afterwards informed that it was there and I missed it. The sight was not like your pictures, though, because it's distant seen from Denmark. The sight was like sheet lightning in summertime (silent blinks from distant lightning). A brilliant, colored light (yellowish-reddish) covered part of the sky in the northern horizon; not blinks but a steady, brilliant light for 5-10 seconds and then fading away. Then a pause, then returning. Never seen it before. TV had in the early evening informed that there was a chance.
2019-03-24 09:39:53 Hagbard: Much like this photo, which someone took at an earlier occasion: https://cdn.simplesite.com/i/71/6c/284008258383932529/i284008264512082788._szw1280h1280_.jpg
2019-03-24 12:50:27 OdinHimself: @Hagbard: It looks more like sunset, but it's beautiful. :)
2019-03-26 19:29:36 Hagbard: Congratulations to Bogd Khan who won the Fetlar Master tournament! #2: Kllimm. #3: Jrton80
2019-03-27 16:56:21 OdinHimself: Hail Bogd Khan, great Bulgarian warrior!!! :)
2019-03-27 22:31:29 Bogd Khan: Thank you Hagbard and OdinHimself
2019-03-28 13:53:43 ChaolAibhne: @tuireann I couldn't find contact details on beta.playtaflonline.com. Can I get in touch about my attempt to register there?
2019-04-01 12:43:46 Hagbard: Congratulations to Animals, who won the Brandubh Master tournament. #2: Steiger. #3: Hnefihunter
2019-04-05 16:31:17 Agmundr: Good luck to all joining the Old Hnefatafl Master tournament! May it be many spectacular battles and a victorious warrior master will rise up from the ashes of the battlefield! The Valkyries will watch over and make sure the dead warriors will dine by Odins table in Valhalla! Skál warriors! 🍻 https://i.pinimg.com/originals/51/6c/b9/516cb9d0f642cb2a7b0f45fdbf23a7e1.jpg
2019-04-05 18:29:05 OdinHimself: Ur askan ett rike!!! Drink the Bragarfull till bottom!
2019-04-05 22:28:28 ChaolAibhne: Does the x2 timing for a game mean that you have to play twice as fast or that you get twice as long for a move? I've created game invitations assuming the former (having seen mention of options for quick play), but thought I'd better check.
2019-04-06 08:01:10 Hagbard: x2 timing = all timing parameters x 2. That is, twice as much time for the game.
2019-04-09 18:44:27 Steiger: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjm5o0ZxLyg
2019-04-10 08:15:23 OdinHimself: @Steiger: This is Bulgaria. The so called "Kukeri". Similar to the Austrian "Krampus". It is believed, that they scare, hunt and keep away the evil spirits from people's houses and lifes. I'd recommend you to take a look at the "Nestinari". The people who do the "Fire dance" on a glow. They are highly devouted and well-trained to walk on the living fire of the wooden coals. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJBTtjXyyQ8
2019-04-10 08:32:24 Hagbard: Very wild people, both videos -
2019-04-10 23:27:50 Hagbard: Lucho Panchev tells today that he received the 2nd prize from Russia and sent 12 photos, soon to be in the gallery.
2019-04-11 08:10:41 Hagbard: - the photos added in the gallery.
2019-04-11 08:38:32 OdinHimself: Ho ho ho... :)
2019-04-11 08:39:57 Agmundr: @OdinHimself: Nice pictures and a beautiful taflboard in it's natural environment. You should had a bonfire and some mjød to! :) Skål Viking warrior! 🍻
2019-04-11 10:33:42 OdinHimself: @Agmundr: Here is my offer for you viking: Next time I'll come ahead and take some new tafl-photos at the realms of Blashyrkh, near Bergen, Norway. You'll bring the mjod and we'll set a bonfire, have some meat and I'll take my big sounding horn and my jaw harp as well. We must have also Steiger with us, this is obligatory! I think this is going to be the beginning of the new Tafl Viking Age! :)
2019-04-11 11:10:36 Agmundr: @OdinHimself: That's a deal! I'll sail my longship around the coast and meet you in Biorgvin with barrels of mjød! 🍻
2019-04-11 13:44:11 OdinHimself: Skål brother! 🍻
2019-04-11 18:01:54 Steiger: @OdinHimself: great video and photos!
2019-04-11 18:33:38 OdinHimself: Thanks brother! :)
2019-04-12 00:36:25 Hagbard: Congratulations to Bogd Khan, who won the Old Hnefatafl Master tournament.
2019-04-12 08:14:41 OdinHimself: Bulgarian Vikings, unite! :)
2019-04-12 23:10:30 Bogd Khan: Skål 🍻
2019-04-15 11:21:03 Hagbard: David Zolli, France, translated the Brandubh rules into French for print. Zolli writes: "I'm a french Brandubh player and I took some time to translate and annotate the rules you put online in a single printable page (attached bellow)." Thank you very much! http://aagenielsen.dk/regles_brandubh.pdf
2019-05-12 20:04:17 Hagbard: Rules for Saami Sáhkku: http://www.varjjat.org/govat/doc/norsk.pdf Dice for playing the first variant: http://aagenielsen.dk/terning_sahkku.php
2019-05-28 20:44:01 Steiger: Hooray, Сrust is back!!!
2019-05-29 06:33:52 OdinHimself: @ Steiger: Where? When? Is it true? :)
2019-05-29 17:20:55 Steiger: Without a doubt!)
2019-06-01 11:18:21 Khan Asparukh: @Hagbard:can you write the times of the three types of game controls at the moment Timing,Timing X2, Timing X10 because I think there are still some changes
2019-06-01 11:42:49 Hagbard: Normal timing: Free time per move: 0.5 day. Time buffer 3 days. If you move faster than the 0.5 day, then half of the saved time is restored to your time buffer. The buffer cannot exceed 3 days, though. If the game exceeds 6 days, then in the period 6-12 days the free time is gradually reduced from 0.5 day to 1 hour. However, if it's a game of very many moves (fx. on large boards), then the "long game threshold" is increased accordingly. If you are flagged for timeout, it will not happen until after 13 hours since your last move. x2 timing: All this x 2. x10 timing: All this x 10. When your time buffer is less than 2 days, you'll see a blue warning. When you're less than 1 day from timeout, you'll se a red warning.
2019-06-01 11:46:11 Hagbard: - and tournaments are timed x2.
2019-06-04 08:43:11 Agmundr: Hail to all! Some of you may know that Amon Amarth has released a new album "Berserker"! \m/ My favourite song is "The Berserker at Stamford Bridge" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srZJpwtaArQ May you all have a great summer with a lot of interesting and good games! Skål! 🍻
2019-06-04 12:29:38 OdinHimself: @Agmundr: Mine is Shield wall! \m/ \m/
2019-06-05 14:50:32 ChaolAibhne: Could I make a suggestion for simplifying the explanation of the hostile throne in the rules for historical hnefatafl? Currently it says: "The throne square is hostile, which means that it can replace one of the two pieces taking part in a capture. The throne is always hostile to the attackers, but only hostile to the defenders when it is empty." There seems to me to be some unnecessary distinctions being made between attackers and defenders and between an occupied and an empty hostile throne. Rather the throne itself is hostile only when it is empty and then to both attackers and defenders. When the throne is occupied (by the king) it is not the throne itself that takes part in a capture, but rather the king, and that is already covered in the explanation of regular capture. There is also the problem that the empty throne is said to replace one of the two pieces taking needed for a capture, but of course it would be four when capturing the king. So I propose that the quoted text could be replaced by this simpler and more accurate sentence: "The empty throne square is hostile, which means that it can replace one of the pieces taking part in a capture."
2019-06-06 20:04:35 Hagbard: There've been these versions of the text: Linné's diary: 14. "Arx potest intercludere, æque ac trio[tertio?], ut si miles in 2 et hostis in 3 est, occiditur4." Olli Salmi translation: 14. "The fort can block, as a third [piece], so if there is a soldier in 2 and enemy in 3, it is killed." Sten Helmfrid: "The four corner squares are hostile to all pieces, which means that they can replace one of the two pieces taking part in a capture. The throne is always hostile to the attackers, but only hostile to the defenders when it is empty." ChaolAibhne: "The empty throne square is hostile, which means that it can replace one of the pieces taking part in a capture."
2019-07-01 17:05:21 ChaolAibhne: @Hagbard You've extended invitations for variants described as Ard Ri-26, Ard Ri-32 and Ard Ri-39. Do these differ from the regular Ard Ri rules?
2019-07-01 17:12:38 Hagbard: In a small detail: they have a throne, and the initial setup is changed. The numbers come from a list of setups: http://aagenielsen.dk/hnefataflforum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&p=1164#p1164
2019-07-11 21:04:15 mmagari: Dear friends, Steiger has created a wonderful Brandubh for me. I thank him very much in front of the whole community, I hope to soon be able to put on my blog some photos that give testimony to Alexander's art, which I greet with affection. Marco Gandolfo
2019-07-12 11:19:51 OdinHimself: Skal!
2019-07-12 17:20:12 Steiger: Enjoy, my friend!
2019-07-12 19:22:45 branan: @mmagari you're named Gondolfo like the Conte di Piacenza?
2019-07-20 15:32:37 jrton80: Thanks
2019-07-24 15:02:31 OdinHimself: Splendid photo! It only misses the set for OdinHimself lol. Steiger is a true master! Respect!
2019-07-25 09:02:02 Hagbard: Now I understand better the many photos of tafl boards in the grass! The verse makes good sense when you are familiar with the Iron Age long houses from reconstructions. Inside would be very dark and with much smoke in the air, so you would always prefer to spend your time out in the open.
2019-08-03 16:14:32 Steiger: In truth, I didn’t make these photos - I just compiled them
2019-08-03 17:25:58 Hagbard: Who were the photographers then?
2019-08-03 17:41:02 Steiger: Many people, including Lucho, Dmitry and others...
2019-08-03 17:45:51 Steiger: Also, that festival had a lot of music. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZFbJ0BaIIc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_2uB2VGJQY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iru-J3FDg4
2019-08-16 08:17:39 Hagbard: 6 new photos from the Bylinnyj Bereg in gallery
2019-08-16 11:22:50 Steiger: \m/.
2019-08-16 14:30:42 Steiger: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4dtCjkLydM
2019-08-17 19:52:17 Steiger: @Masterluke: nice sets!
2019-08-27 19:42:07 ChaolAibhne: Is there any archaeological or historical record of tafl boards other than 7x7 with marked corners?
2019-08-27 21:05:14 Hagbard: There's the Ockelbo Runestone, Sweden, it shows marked corners and center, but it does not show the board size.
2019-08-27 23:11:37 ChaolAibhne: @Hagbard I understand there's some dispute over whether the stone depicts tafl or another game, but even if we take it to be tafl then, as you say, there's no indication of the size. I'm interested in what the historical evidence tells us about the prevalence of corner escape.
2019-08-27 23:16:39 ChaolAibhne: The esoteric Alia Evangelii looks like it may have had corner escape.
2019-08-28 09:58:36 Hagbard: My 2 cents: Doc. for corner escape: Ockelbo Runestone, Ballinderry board and the Alea Evangelii document. Doc. for edge escape: Linné diary, the Tawlbwrdd document and all other boards found.
2019-08-29 05:27:49 sqAree: Potentially interesting discussion about the Copenhagen rules in the large forum (topic name: "Rule variant between "Old hnefatafl" and Copenhagen"). I'm not a fan of the proposed changes, but maybe it's an opportunity to resume thinking about the rules as they're still somewhat flawed (in my opinion).
2019-08-29 14:44:39 hnefihunter: It is interesting to compare Old Tawlbwrdd and Tablut. "In the Ancient Laws and Institutes of Wales, dating before 1250, costings are given for a game with a king, eight defenders and sixteen attackers." Linné's Tablut has the same.
2019-09-14 09:34:48 Agmundr: Warriors of the world! The great battle is near and it's time to sharpen your swords and Dan axes! Fight with honour and respect and to your dying breath! Good luck to everyone! Here our soldiers stand from all around the world Waiting in a line to hear the battle cry All are gathered here victory is near The sound will fill the hall bringing power to us all We alone are fighting for metal that is true We own the right to live the fight we're here for all of you Now swear the blood upon your steel will never dry Stand and fight together beneath the metal sky Brothers Everywhere Raise you hands into the air We're warriors Warriors of The World Like thunder from the sky Sworn to fight and die We're warriors Warriors of The World https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1G9D8A4Fiw
2019-09-14 11:09:39 Steiger: Ósnjallr maðr hyggsk munu ey lifa, ef hann við víg varask; en elli gefr hánum engi frið, þótt hánum geirar gefi.
2019-09-14 11:57:55 Hagbard: 9 vikings from Trelleborg in Denmark travelled to Ulyanovsk in Russia Sep. 12th: https://sn.dk/Slagelse/Lokale-vikinger-skal-kaempe-i-Rusland/artikel/870038 https://www.vdonline.dk/Slagelse/Visionaere-vikinger-drager-paa-Ruslandstogt/artikel/12460
2019-09-14 13:10:42 Ded Fomich: Interesting event. Welcome to Garðaríki! Komdu sæll, Þórr yðr þiggi, Óðinn yðr eigi!
2019-09-14 15:51:36 chuck ward: HAIL AND KILL!!!
2019-09-14 19:28:14 Adam: Speaking as umpire: this year's hnefatafl world championship starts tonight. Please play by the rules and with respect for other players time. If you have signed up please take your games seriously, if you decide you can't see the tournament through please let the organisers know. Good luck to all!
2019-09-15 00:02:04 Hagbard: May Loki give you laughter as you go!
2019-09-15 17:45:13 Hagbard: Info: Dmitry Pashkov from "MetalVikings" and his new project "Ethnic Board Games" (Moscow) shared his thoughts of donating a new 1st prize for the tournament!!!
2019-09-18 22:01:55 Adam: Speaking as umpire: Mykle and Prendek to be removed from the champ. tourn. for not showing up.
2019-09-20 22:07:49 mmagari: Health! I point out my last work on the Tafl games: Game of brandubh - by M.M.Gandolfo Milan 19 9 2019 which you can see here https://marcogandolfoworks.blogspot.com/2019/09/game-of-brandubh-by-mmgandolfo-milano.html
2019-09-21 10:07:02 branan: Very nice Marco!!
2019-09-21 15:14:14 OdinHimself: Good job Marco! And a good game with white for Klimm against xerxes! A shieldwall attack with tripple capture and a game win. Outstanding!
2019-09-22 17:40:21 Steiger: @mmagari: Fantastic, Marco!!! Health and wealth!
2019-09-25 13:23:32 Agmundr: Hurra hurra! 🍻
2019-09-29 16:12:53 Adam: Speaking as umpire: Ratatoskr, Freedom, Kllimm, L716, Agmundr and Ytreza have qualified for Round 2. Round 2 begins Oct. 2nd at 18 o'clock Danish time. Thanks everyone for a good tournament so far, good luck to all in round 2.
2019-09-29 18:00:22 xerxes: ... it's a hard world ! Congrats to L716.
2019-09-29 20:05:08 L716: Thank you, Xerxes. I will fight in your name! :D
2019-10-01 10:28:16 Agmundr: The next battle round is here! Good luck warriors! May there be many story telling battles! Men will fight and men will die Wars will be lost and won That's how it's been and still will be Long after I'm gone Doubting not I give my blood So I may enter hall up high The sky belongs to Asagods As long as the raven flies
2019-10-02 06:47:16 OdinHimself: @Agmundr: With sword in hand I now stand On my enemies land With a northern heart I will fight until the day I die My time will be remembered my time it will be known By my sons by my tribe and by the sun the sea and moon For the who battle for his land his pride and for his men Shall be remembered and stand eternally named In the legends of our land @Hagbard: Our next feast will take place in this longhouse...
2019-10-02 08:58:23 Agmundr: @OdinHimself: Very good! \m/ \m/ The saga of the warriors from northland Speaks of greatness and strength The saga of the warriors from northland Are the saga of many great a man
2019-10-02 11:53:03 OdinHimself: Skal!
2019-10-02 17:33:39 Hagbard: May Thor grant you strength and courage on your way.
2019-10-02 18:11:30 Agmundr: Skål! 🍻
2019-10-04 17:06:03 L716: "Most active player" because otherwise I tend to forget what my plan was ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
2019-10-04 17:59:40 Hagbard: :)
2019-10-05 13:03:45 Masterluke: @Steiger: thx for your comments regarding my tafl sets in the gallery... beter late than never, I just discovered this small forum 😄
2019-10-05 20:35:47 MasterLuke: @branan: love your brandubh set at the gallery!
2019-10-06 11:53:06 branan: Thx Luke!
2019-10-24 18:31:00 Agmundr: Thanks for the games against all the players in my group! All of them good and interesting! Skål warriors! 🍻 Good luck in final Casshern and Bogd Khan! 🍻
2019-10-29 08:30:46 Adam: Speaking as umpiure: @Ytreza: Sorry for the delayed reply, you've probably got your answer from the discussion. In short, your position was not an exit fort as your king coudld't get out to the board edge. Draw forts are not a feature in Copenhagen, only winning forts. The rule I think is very clear: "Exit forts: The defenders also win if the king has contact with the board edge, is able to move, and it is impossible for the attackers to break the fort." Perhaps the words 'king, edge, move, impossible' should be in bold though. In your case, the fort was indeed a draw fort, as the only way to break it would be for black to let your king escape and win. The repetition rule was implemented specifiaclly to prevent this type of position from being a win in Copenhagen rules. An interesting game, I especially liked the way you stretched out your opponents forces. Khan Asparukh had to work hard to get you penned in.
2019-11-06 17:23:44 Steiger: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kusNZREcfgI
2019-11-06 18:31:10 OdinHimself: @Steiger: Beware!!! Last warning! You're posting links to DEVILISH music!!! :):):)
2019-11-07 05:31:39 Steiger: @OdinHimself: devilish? Oh my god, I didn't know!)
2019-11-07 06:37:48 OdinHimself: @Steiger: Lol. Now you know! Immediately switch over to a different music genre. Possibly more "angelic/cherubic/seraphic/celestial/heavnly" orientated hehehe. :)
2019-11-07 09:06:12 Steiger: @OdinHimself: something like that?)))): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myrE4MF4L4I
2019-11-07 09:46:22 OdinHimself: @Steiger: Exactly!!! Right there! That would satisfy some people here! 😁
2019-11-07 10:24:17 Steiger: @OdinHimself: beware!!!)) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwmHdPNoTZ8
2019-11-07 17:26:29 OdinHimself: @Steiger: Cool! :)
2019-11-08 07:02:14 OdinHimself: Hail to Steiger, Agmundr, Hagbard and all the viking hearts here!!! This is my special salute to them, my favorite Thyrfing song, please listen from the beginning till the end! Scandinaviaaaaaaa!!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaEnk9IcgYw
2019-11-08 09:51:42 Agmundr: @OdinHimself: I raise my horn with mjød and shout, Skål! my viking brother! This song is for you and all the vikings here! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BPILaMT50k
2019-11-08 10:52:46 Hagbard: @OdinHimself: Thank you. I enjoy the songs from Volga too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_2uB2VGJQY
2019-11-08 12:49:24 OdinHimself: @Hagbard: Yes. We had a great time there! Skal! :)
2019-11-09 17:34:39 Steiger: Skål! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdbdetriJcg
2019-11-09 17:36:19 OdinHimself: Skål!
2019-11-09 17:36:24 Steiger: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jdi3gH-Naxk
2019-11-09 20:13:18 OdinHimself: It is going to be Bulgaria versus USA final. ;)
2019-11-10 19:50:30 Steiger: Vesall maðr ok illa skapi hlær at hvívetna; hittki hann veit, er hann vita þyrfti, at hann er-a vamma vanr.
2019-11-11 08:21:25 Adam: Speaking as umpire: Casshern, Bogd khan, Khan asparukh and Death have qualified for the final starting Nov. 12th at 18 o'clock Danish time.
2019-11-11 19:48:08 Ytreza: Many thanks for organizing the tournament, and special thanks to my opponents who all played interesting and enjoyable games. It was a really fun experience! Good luck to all finalists :)
2019-11-11 20:04:32 OdinHimself: @Ytreza: Skal!
2019-11-12 17:54:45 Hagbard: May Odin give you knowledge on your path!
2019-11-13 10:06:28 Masterluke: Yes! I defeated Casshern... A rare comet is passing by right now :D :D
2019-11-13 10:26:06 casshern: A victory worth celebrating. Very well played. You are indeed the Master!!! :)
2019-11-13 16:06:16 Masterluke: @ casshern: You're too polite... I would not call myself a Master (even if my nickname says Masterluke), given my ranking at this moment... :) But I'm improving, I guess, step by step, little by little... I'm learning to play Tafl the hard way... :) Starting at 1500, I tumbled all the way down to less then 1000 points. My goal now is to reach 1300 (been there for a while a few weeks back) :)
2019-11-13 19:05:20 branan: GG Luke! :)
2019-11-13 21:25:50 MasterLuke: @branan: Thx!
2019-11-16 05:42:39 L716: @casshern: "Not sure why cuz I am terrible at chess and most other strategy games". Well, it's obvious. While chess is a game about pieces, tafl is a game about spaces between them :D
2019-11-17 05:56:17 casshern: @L716: Thank you! That's why I enjoy this game so much. It is very simple. Spacing is name of the game.
2019-11-17 09:46:31 branan: @L716: I love your tafl definition! :)
2019-11-17 15:52:53 cassio: I never liked chess, but was taken by Tafl on first contact. The distinction made by @L716 will have me thinking for a time...
2019-11-26 12:07:54 Hagbard: Casshern won the Tablut Master tournament! A very close run it was, Casshern and Ded Fomich both got 28 points and also played even against each other. The Sonneborn-Berger scores, however, differed, 174 and 159.
2019-11-26 14:50:24 Bogd Khan: Amazing Master tournament with wonderful games. Congratulations to the winners!🍻
2019-11-26 22:33:22 Mihkkal: Congratulations to the winners! @Hagbard How is the Sonnenborn-Berger score calculated?
2019-11-26 23:09:31 Hagbard: Like this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonneborn–Berger_score
2019-12-09 15:09:08 Bogd Khan: Thank you Mario for all the games we've played and all the things I've learned from you! It's always a pleasure to play against the best. Waiting so long for such a win, especially on the World Championship final
2019-12-09 18:55:58 OdinHimself: Good job Bogd!!! :) You're Bulgaria's pride!!! Skal!!!
2019-12-09 19:55:42 casshern: @Bogd Khan: I always enjoy our games. I have been lucky in the past to escape the jaws of defeat, but not this time. A well deserved win. Well played, Sir!!!
2019-12-12 19:17:34 OdinHimself: Although it's not a news, casshern really deserves applause. Here we have many great players, champions that have raised hnefatafl's level of development to new heights. Only few names to mention, though there are many more - Nath, crust, Plantagenet, Adam, Herjan, casshern - all of them great masters that have contributed to tafl knowledge and strategy. They all will be remembered, their names will shine like lit by fire metal shields on the wall of fame. I have to admit that I have never seen such complex and passionate player like casshern before and I think we all have learned from his genious. So, I raise my Bragarful to honor those who are worthy! Skal brothers!
2019-12-13 07:39:40 L716: So many great players and yet there is only three participants in Berserk Tournament. Don't rest on your laurels! Go and play, you lazy Masters!
2019-12-13 09:06:56 xerxes: Congratulations to Casshern. I agree with all that Odinhimself has said. Not only is Casshern a great player, but he plays with humility and it is always a pleasure to be beaten by him (well, nearly).
2019-12-18 09:45:43 Hagbard: Looks like Casshern won the Valhöll Final! #2 not known yet.
2019-12-18 18:33:54 OdinHimself: Congratulations to casshern!
2019-12-19 17:22:03 casshern: Thank you, Lucho!! And thank you for the kind words!!
2019-12-20 21:08:36 OdinHimself: Congratulations to all medalists!!!
2019-12-20 23:39:53 Hagbard: All games in the World Championship tournament are completed.
2019-12-21 14:39:29 Adam: Speaking as umpire: Casshern is the winner of the Championship Final! Bogd Khan finsihes #2, Death #3 and Khan Asparukh #4. Congratulations to Casshern and the runners up, and thanks to everyone who took part. And thank you Hagbard for hosting another great tournament. Well done everyone for finishing before the holidays, have a great christmas and new year where ever you are.
2019-12-22 10:44:31 Hagbard: Congratulations to Mario for winning the Championship tournament!! Thank you very much to all the tafl players who participated in the tournament! It has been very entertaining to see the games; in all three rounds is a multitude of clever tactics and strategy. And thank you to Adam who did a fine job as the umpire!
2019-12-22 20:28:01 OdinHimself: The shortest day - The black winter day. Amorphis, Finland, Tales from the thousand lakes (1994) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxG5pjI8wLk Enjoy!
2019-12-24 12:22:12 OdinHimself: [url=https://postimg.cc/TyngXFST][img]https://i.postimg.cc/TyngXFST/80757189-2302872436671125-6991039849633415168-n.jpg[/img][/url]
2019-12-24 12:22:41 OdinHimself: https://i.postimg.cc/7LWVSynJ/80757189-2302872436671125-6991039849633415168-n.jpg
2019-12-27 23:25:01 Jrton80: I am happy with my 9 wins there - usually I am lucky to be able to play 500 ball, I seem to do better with the Berserker
2020-01-01 11:30:25 branan: Happy new year everybody. I wish you the best for 2020!
2020-01-01 13:17:54 OdinHimself: Be happy, tafl warriors!!! Let Odin fill your nets with herring, let Thor give you strength and Tyr courage, let your horns and cups will always be full with mead and your hearts with honour and pride! Fight with passion, lose with dignity and win with glory, this is our viking code!
2020-01-08 22:01:08 Hagbard: Full scale reconstruction of the Viking Age royal hall in Lejre, Denmark. Article and video! https://www.tv2lorry.dk/lejre/enormt-vikingebyggeri-star-snart-klar-og-far-royal-indvielse
2020-01-12 11:47:17 Agmundr: @OdinHimself: Hi! I have accepted odin's invitation to play Copenhagen Hnefatafl at http://beta.playtaflonline.com, do you want to play the game my Viking Brother? 🍻
2020-01-12 12:19:52 OdinHimself: @Agmundr: In the name of Odin, yes!!! :)
2020-01-13 18:08:10 Steiger: Salute, Agmundr! Sorry, I can't write messages on playtafl. Glad to play with you again. When I fix my computer machine, then will be more games.
2020-01-14 11:27:02 Agmundr: @Steiger: No problem my friend! 🍻 I have problems writing when using my phone too in Playtaflonline. Let's rock! \m/
2020-01-15 15:56:46 Masterluke: Hey you all, maybe you should look at this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxFkeBHIarg&feature=youtu.be Yes, I designed another Tafl game. I posted already a thread about this last week, see http://aagenielsen.dk/hnefataflforum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=118 Fishbreath tested it already and he thought it to be fascinating and engaging. I don't know, maybe it needs some testing. I'm hoping some day sooner or later I get the chance to produce it for real, I mean no computer game.
2020-01-15 16:34:42 Hagbard: Can the four guards stay on the king's four neighbour squares? When doing so, the king is isolated from all other pieces and can not be captured but only surrounded.
2020-01-15 16:44:03 Masterluke: @Hagbard: Eventually the king must come out from between his guards to reach the edge? It is then the attacker should react... But maybe you're right and there should be an extra rule included regarding the guards... I got them from boardgamegeek and I found them very interesting...
2020-01-15 18:32:08 Hagbard: Perhaps some players could at first try the Masterluke variant IRL against family and friends? Compared to the Bartley Alea Berserk: 17x17 board: easier for white, king captured from 2 sides: easier for black, added guards: easier for white. It's hard to predict a balance.
2020-01-15 19:26:02 Masterluke: @Hagbard: you're right about that. The only way to find out is testing and playing. But I thought: here ar so many experienced players with an opinion... I also like its 'thronelessness' like in the sea-battle variants, which are the most balanced...
2020-01-15 23:37:27 Hagbard: Yes that's a fourth: No throne: easier for black.
2020-01-16 06:14:23 Hagbard: And wins on edge: easier for white.
2020-01-16 07:07:06 Hagbard: And more pieces on the board: easier for black.
2020-01-16 09:07:09 Masterluke: To my surprise, I see there's already a test-version of Alea Berserk Martens! Because in real life, there are very few people I know to play with or are even interested in board games... Pitty I'm not skilled in programming, so could write an AI-game to play against... So many thanks to Hagbard! Let's see how this works out (or not).
2020-01-16 09:53:30 Hagbard: At the same time the guards also make it easier not only for white but also for black, since 4 defenders are now unarmed.
2020-01-16 10:26:50 Masterluke: What about the variegated men? Hard to say if they favor black or white, I guess?
2020-01-16 11:04:06 Hagbard: But they are the same as in the Alea Berserk Bartley.
2020-01-16 19:19:27 Masterluke: Yes, I know... just wondering... :)
2020-01-16 23:29:55 Hagbard: The variegated men, a guess: Number of blacks are twice the number of whites, so the variegated are more likely to be captured by black and thus more likely to favor black, just a guess.
2020-01-19 11:32:00 Masterluke: Testing game rules are slightly altered, after Hagbard and I concluded it was too favourable for black, see: http://aagenielsen.dk/hnefataflforum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=118&p=1250#p1250
2020-01-27 21:00:00 Masterluke: Another update for the 17x17 Alea Berserk (Martens) variant: http://aagenielsen.dk/hnefataflforum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&p=1254#p1254 That's where test games are for! :)
2020-01-31 16:55:01 OdinHimself: Thank you Hagbard! :)
2020-02-01 09:26:02 Hagbard: Excellent TV programme!
2020-02-06 09:50:29 Adam: @Masterluke and @Hagbard - just a thought, pieces with new variations of ability might be easier to follow in game with a new name and letter. Perhaps the kings defenders in the 17x17 alea game could be 'B' for blocker instead of 'k' for knight? Is there a full rules list somewhere by the way, before I make a stupid move!?
2020-02-06 09:54:36 Adam: @Masterluke and @Hagbard, sorry, I found the rules now! Also, I see the Luk proposed G for guard. No doubt the K is a stand in to simplyfy programming during testing. I will imagine them as K for blocKer. :)
2020-02-06 10:03:55 Hagbard: Yes the "reuse" of pieces made it simpler to program, blocKer it is!
2020-02-06 10:22:34 Masterluke: @ Adam: Good thinking, Adam! ;) Indeed, the K should be a G, but you're right in assuming it's for reasons of simplicity they're named K - for now...
2020-02-07 15:49:22 Agmundr: British archeologists have found gamepieces from the Viking time in Lindisfarne. https://www.nrk.no/urix/fant-unik-spillebrikke-fra-vikingtiden-1.14893366
2020-02-07 15:52:23 Agmundr: From the Guardian: https://www.theguardian.com/science/2020/feb/06/boardgame-piece-first-viking-raid-found-lindisfarne-archaeology
2020-02-07 19:30:13 jrton80: There I was one evening watching some show about a site in England. I cannot say I was paying much attention because the real content in most TV programs on any serious topic is about 10 minutes to the hour and 20 of that is commercials, but I digress, when they started showing all these lead balls from a time way before firearms. There were a dimple in the bottom of these pieces, I am suddenly thinking, “you put a wooden dow in there and you got a game piece” and sure enough, they are finally talking about Hnefatafl. It was rather fun watching create new pieces in the same style. I got such a laugh out of that I just wish the rest of the show was worth watching – I might have remembered which dig it was
2020-02-12 11:56:18 Masterluke: Yet another update regarding Alea Berserk 17x17 (Martens): see http://aagenielsen.dk/hnefataflforum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=118&p=1260#p1260 This does not apply to the ongoing tournament, Hagbard and me are playing new test games.
2020-02-13 01:25:47 ChaolAibhne: @MasterLuke I think that's a good change to make. It did feel that the guards were sometimes more of a hindrance to white.
2020-02-14 09:26:22 Masterluke: Meanwhile, I keep on improving the 17x17 Alea Berserk Martens concept: see http://aagenielsen.dk/hnefataflforum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=118&p=1261#p1261 It doesn't look much, but I think it could change the gameplay dramatically...
2020-02-21 19:48:09 Jrton80: Me as #1 in a Tournament? That can't be right ;)
2020-03-01 00:10:04 Masterluke: I just fought an exhausting battle with Xerxes. In the end I lost because of some really stupid moves... It lasted 345 moves, no less... I don't know, I'm here for about a year and a half, were there other games that took so long, I wonder?
2020-03-01 06:23:39 Hagbard: I looked in the database. There's only one game longer, 350 moves. It started Jan. 10th 2020.
2020-03-07 18:25:45 branan: Hi All. What happens to Brandubh pieces on the website? They have changed to strange triangles. I don't see colors well (eye problem) and it's very difficult for me to see black (blue?) pieces on the dark green background. Is it possible to reverse to previous design (with preference setting somewhere) ?
2020-03-07 18:39:49 branan: Ok. I found the thread on the forum and explain my problem there.
2020-03-07 19:11:10 Hagbard: @Branan: sorry to hear that. Old pieces restored. Perhaps the new black pieces needed to be darker?
2020-03-08 10:35:21 branan: @Hagbard: I'm talking about that with themightyglider and try to help him to understand how I see as much as I can. But classic color blinds could also have problems with some others color combinations.
2020-03-08 12:37:24 Hagbard: Yes, I'm quite aware that the Brandubh2 is your favourite, so the game pieces are now at test at the Simple Tafl 11x11.
2020-03-08 13:18:04 Riiem: Those new pieces are nice, maybe it's the green background that cause more problems than the pieces?
2020-03-08 15:01:59 Hagbard: Changed the background to "Forest Green", probably a better tone. In any case a nature shade of green as viking battles go on in forests and nature.
2020-03-08 23:05:43 Hagbard: Now there are new sets of game pieces in Simple Tafl 11x11 and in Ard Ri.
2020-03-09 10:12:50 Masterluke: Since the omission of the guards, the game variant Tyr 17 x 17 (formerly called 'Alea Berserk Martens 2') seems to be very much in balance, but the upcoming tournament has to prove it for sure. I hope many of you will give it a try... By the way, I call it 'Tyr' like the Nordic god of war, whose name was shouted out when vikings attacked.
2020-03-09 11:07:45 Hagbard: The name "Tyr" is found still today in "Tuesday" and in 13 location names in Denmark.
2020-03-09 11:53:12 Hagbard: Branan, do you have your game pieces as single files?
2020-03-09 20:10:15 branan: @Hagbard: I put them indexed on the forum.
2020-03-09 20:17:27 Hagbard: Yes it works! They're in the Fetlar 11x11 now.
2020-03-09 20:20:20 Hagbard: Special game pieces in Simple Tafl 11x11, Ard Ri, Sea 15x15, Fetlar 11x11 and Brandubh2.
2020-03-10 09:24:40 Hagbard: Special game pieces in Simple Tafl 11x11, Ard Ri, Sea 15x15, Fetlar 11x11, Brandubh2 and Tyr 17x17.
2020-03-16 22:18:59 Hnefihunter: @Hagbard:When I played with Branan, I realized that Brandub has too bright a color setting for me. My eyes started to get tired. It became a little difficult for me to process information. This has never happened before. Is it possible to reduce the brightness?
2020-03-16 22:19:42 Hnefihunter: I'm not against the new design, but I want to note that the David Zolli’ s settings have less bright shades than now. http://aagenielsen.dk/hnefataflforum/phpBB3/download/file.php?id=93
2020-03-16 22:20:15 Hnefihunter: http://aagenielsen.dk/hnefataflforum/phpBB3/download/file.php?id=157
2020-03-16 23:21:35 Hagbard: It's the same background color of Brandubh 2 as before, only with new game pieces.
2020-03-17 09:43:11 Hnefihunter: @Hagbard:Probably, the few color on a tiny board. I played the previous and last styles of Tablut, both versions are normal for me. Maybe, the new pieces goes well with other board size.
2020-03-17 10:06:20 Hagbard: I see your point, but eyes are different, and this particular variant is tuned in in a special way.
2020-03-17 10:17:07 Hnefihunter: ... the many colors on a tiny board.* I prefer a simple style for the abstract games.
2020-03-17 10:29:49 Hnefihunter: I agree. So I talked to Branan in advance about this topic. David Zolli think, the picture he've made was done in a graphic program, while you uses PHP to compose the board. It probably looses part of PNG transparency. So colors come more rough than in his design.
2020-03-17 15:34:53 branan: @Hnefihunter, could you check if this look better for you: https://www.casimages.com/i/200317034100559839.png.html on the left, the current colors, on the right reduce colors tones.
2020-03-17 15:46:31 Hnefihunter: @branan:I think it looks better.
2020-03-17 16:13:43 branan: Ok, let's go for it, then.
2020-03-17 17:49:18 branan: Aage, I would really like to thank you for this site, but also for your reactivity and your good will to always try to improve things. It's really very pleasant!
2020-03-17 18:02:59 Hagbard: David, you're very welcome. I also want to thank all you players for your commitment, lively activity, valuable contributions and many good ideas!
2020-03-17 18:12:18 Hnefihunter: I'm joining. Thank you, Aage. Thanks David. Cool set and nice colors tones. Nothing distracts from the game)
2020-03-18 17:54:58 Masterluke: @Hagbard: Hello, in the game Tyr 13x13 me playing against Jrton80 I got him completely surrounded, he can not escape... Does that not mean the game is over (I win)? Apparently not in this case?
2020-03-18 18:22:01 Hagbard: It's because of the Berserk features. The Commanders can jump over a row of men, and therefore a surrounding may not be final but can be jumped over.
2020-03-18 18:26:50 Masterluke: @Habard: ah, ok. Well, I'll have to kill him then... )
2020-03-21 19:10:31 ChaolAibhne: @ Hnefihunter, my friend. I joined this site a year ago from today, a couple of months after you. I soon identified you as a consistent and improving player that I could measure my progress against, hoping that I would manage to keep my rating from lagging too far behind. But, marvel of marvels, yesterday my rating edged just ahead! It probably won't be for long, as I'm a less consistent player. But I trust that you will indulge me for now if I mark my 'anniversary' with this achievement. ;-)
2020-03-22 19:06:59 OdinHimself: Hagbard, I like the new Welsh Tawlbwrdd warrior pieces very much! This is how a real tafl set should look like! Skal!
2020-03-22 19:36:26 Hagbard: I do too and agree. Thank Luk Martens who drew the pieces!
2020-03-23 06:23:47 OdinHimself: All hail Luk! :)
2020-03-24 00:03:48 Masterluke: @OdinHimself and Hagbard: you're welcome and thanks for the kind comments...
2020-03-27 17:27:38 Hnefihunter: @ChaolAibhne: I like to be part of the gaming community on this cozy site. I am glad that the spirit of competition allows you to improve.
2020-04-01 16:54:44 Wesley Alves: Hello, friends! I'm Wesley, still without a quality nick (lol). So, some people and I created a Brazilian community of Tafl, and I would like to know how I could put here the translations of some rules into Portuguese to help Brazilians who do not read in English, French or other languages. It's possible?:)
2020-04-01 17:11:39 Wesley Alves: The idea is to facilitate the dissemination of Tafl in Brazil, which knows so little about this game.
2020-04-01 20:06:40 Hagbard: @Wesley Alves: That sounds good! You're very welcome to translate rules into Portuguese.
2020-04-02 13:52:01 ChaolAibhne: @Hagbard My daughter was browsing this site recently and gave me a nice surprise when she informed me that I was among the hallowed company that constitutes the Tafl Wall of Fame. A lifetime ambition realised! :-) I see that most people there have their real names as well as their nicknames – in that case mine is Hamish Lawson. As far as the affiliation with the University of St Andrews goes, I wish there was indeed a tafl scene there; but there's not as far as I know and so it's probably best to remove that affiliation. Thanks!
2020-04-02 14:21:37 Hagbard: :) Thank you for the name.
2020-04-03 09:24:37 branan: @Westley: if you browse the forum there: http://aagenielsen.dk/hnefataflforum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=37&start=30#p1385 you'll find downloadable MS Word models to help you for your translations.
2020-04-06 12:23:40 L716: Does anyone know how to contact the admin of PlayTaflOnline? I'm trying to register, but the site won't send me anything on email to verify it.
2020-04-07 07:44:47 Hagbard: @L716: playtaflonline DOT com AT gmail DOT com substitute DOT and AT with . and @
2020-04-07 13:53:25 L716: Thank you, Hagbard
2020-04-07 14:00:49 Hnefihunter: @Hagbard:It didn't help. The system writes either «Username already exists», or «Please verify your email». Letters to the mail don't come along.
2020-04-08 08:38:38 Hagbard: @Hnefihunter: did you mean your forum account on this site, or do you mean at Play Tafl Online?
2020-04-08 12:46:19 Hnefihunter: @Hagbard: Beta site of Play Tafl Online
2020-04-08 12:48:54 Hagbard: Ok, the admin mail address is the one I wrote, it uses to work
2020-04-08 13:25:16 Hnefihunter: Thank you. I'll send a letter at this address.
2020-04-09 11:51:43 ChaolAibhne: It occurred to me that I haven't seen Casshern around here for a while, and the games archive shows that he last played three months ago, which is an unusually long absence for him. Given the times we are in, does anyone know he is OK?
2020-04-11 06:18:14 Riiem: @Hnefihunter and @L716, Playtaflonline is currently broken for the subscriptions, the admin, Tuireann, is not working on the site for the moment, due to other professionnal occupations.
2020-04-19 22:43:53 Riiem: Just posting here cause i know peoples like diversity, but Hnefatafl app, by Fellhuhn (Philip Schober on app stores) had a maaaajor update lately! Elo rating and online matching up are now working well. It badly needs good players over there, to show how challenging it can be. For now i am fourth on the rank there over maaany players. It's not normal lol so come show people what are real good players on a app that has thousands of players.
2020-04-21 20:39:48 Jrton80: @Riiem - I checked out that app, the AI still suck but I just noticed there are different AIs so I'll have to poke around a bit - it seems to have the H1-J1 opening which it just loves and is just way too easy to pick apart, and the Berserker did some things which made no sense even by the Apps rules, but the jumping King is a rather interesting twist. @Hagbard - this site is linked twice in the rules - did you know about this?
2020-04-21 22:37:11 Hagbard: No, but I knew about Fellhuhn, he is on my link page
2020-04-23 08:36:05 MasterLuke: I am happy to see that game variant 'Tyr 17x17' of which I set up the rules, has a fine balance of 1.18 (1.08 overall) at this moment. Also, I've made a small change in the rules sheet by adding a sentence regarding the king who can do a berserk move and escape at the same time. I felt it could be unclear to new players, hence the update. On the other hand, the ongoing Tyr 13x13 tournament shows this game favours black too much - at least, right now.
2020-04-23 11:21:32 branan: I tried Philip Schober's app and I didn't like it. But it would be great if Hagbard could make us a mobile application using the site's PHP code and graphics (with PhoneGap for example).
2020-04-23 14:59:57 Riiem: @Branan but you can play on mobile with the site? I do that all the time
2020-04-23 19:18:15 branan: Of course I do! But a website on a smartphone can't offer the same possibilities an app could. For example: notifications, background update with pushed data, offline / asynchronous moves, and so on. But the most important thing is game visibility: Apple and Google app stores give a very good opportunity to increase Tafl games popularity worldwide.
2020-04-23 19:37:11 MasterLuke: @branan and @Riiem: how I wish I had the knowledge of making websites or apps... Now I 'merely' design pieces or make drawings to dress up things a bit... Me too find that Tafl deservers far more appreciation worldwide! I tried the Philip Schober app too, I found it to be too slow in reaction. But kudos to him credits for trying, and it looks rather nice, though...
2020-04-24 05:14:57 Riiem: For myself, i miss PTO and Opentaflbot on it, playing on opentaflbot itself, without pto frame, not the same XD
2020-04-29 20:33:06 MasterLuke: Personally, I don't mind if there is no surround-rule in the Tyr game. To me, there's no such thing as a 'draw', unless both players agree on it (for example if a game should get boring or taking too long)... As the man who set up the rules and from a true warriors view: the attackers MUST kill the king, NOT merely surround him, to win the game. Likewise, the defender MUST try to reach the edge instead of 'staying home, cosy between his own men'. That's no way to win... So no draw forts and/or surroundings here. This fits perfectly in my goal to make the rules as simple as possible. Agree?
2020-04-29 20:34:30 MasterLuke: I meant 'the defender's KING must try to reach the end, of course
2020-04-30 14:36:47 OdinHimself: A musical greeting to all tafl players at Aage's of me, Odin, I'm glad I know you, we are the best tafl community worldwide! And to our caring host Hagbard, our true Vikinge Høvding, respect! Skal, Odin with us! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0EQdGh_PmI
2020-05-01 06:21:04 Bogd Khan: I noticed a problem when playing tyr 17x17. It's too easy to blacks to surround the whites if whites play too defensive but for whites is too easy to make two castles 2x2 and blacks could not kill the king when there are 2 castles and he is somewhere between them. Tyr 13x13 is definitely better balanced.
2020-05-01 06:24:11 Bogd Khan: I think that more players need to read the rules of Fetlar game. In the last tournament at least 3 players playing white was able to make a draw when attacked my corner with a single king. The classical draw that Hagbard said. No one did.
2020-05-01 06:28:08 Bogd Khan: Fetlar and Copenhagen has great balances and respect for the creators of these games. Old Hnefatafl has a big advantage for the black player and there are too easy ways to block a corner with only 2-3 moves and with only two pieces.
2020-05-01 20:48:51 MasterLuke: @ Bogd Khan: interesting note about the 'better balance' of Tyr 13x13 versus Tyr 17x17. Tyr 17x17 has a fine balance of 1.18 right now. Tyr 13x13 is not yet listed in the balance sheet but at this moment, regarding the games being played, black wins almost 2 to 1... I guess it all depends on the level of the players... :)
2020-05-01 22:39:06 Jrton80: @MasterLuke - I was just thinking about that myself - the 13x13 seems to favor Black way too much - I have found an attack pattern which seems to work pretty well, but of course, I can beat it and @Bogd Khan was not fooled by it either. I only won Black against Bogd Khan due to a lucky Berserker move.
2020-05-01 22:50:49 jrton80: For the 13x13 - I am seeing 66.15% Black 40.37% white win rate (sorry, I think in percentages, not ratios, I use to be able to convert them, but I have gotten lazy) - prior to the current tournament, the Black win rate was over 70%
2020-05-01 23:18:39 jrton80: @Bogd Khan the last I checked the 17x17 win rate was 48.00% black 50.98% white. The same attack pattern for white works for 13x13 but is harder to defend - But you are right, Playing white and you do not try to pokes holes early and often - you'er screwed - the only real difference I see is that on the 17x17, if your first thrust does not work there is a chance charging out elsewhere, whereas in the 13x13, there and no second chances unless you can bait a Black piece into the center and bonce out on it.
2020-05-02 23:46:47 Hagbard: @OdinHimself: Good music; reminds of the Bylinnyj Bereg festival!
2020-05-03 09:56:56 OdinHimself: @Hagbard: Yes, and it's funny, because these guys come from down under - Australia. I'm glad you liked it. :)
2020-05-07 07:23:22 xerxes: The UK National Tournament is to find the 2020 National Champion for the UK (Copenhagen). So, for UK players only. Format will depend on the number of entries, similar to the World Championship (which runs in September). The UK Championship will be run on similar lines to the World Championship.
2020-05-07 20:07:43 casshern: @ChaolAibhne: Sorry, I didn’t respond to your post from a month ago. I have been well. Just took a break for what looks like 4 month. My longest break by far. However, for the last few weeks I have been playing on the Hnefatafl app that Riiem was talking about. I enjoyed the app very much. Now I am ready to start playing a bunch of games again. Especially the Simple Tafl Tournament. I love Simple Tafl for the fact that there is no throne or special rules. Every piece is armed, captured from two sides, and the king just needs to get to the edge. I just wish there were a more elegant set up. Anyways, happy to be playing again with everyone here. I hope everyone is keeping well, healthy, and safe during these troubling times.
2020-05-08 13:17:37 ChaolAibhne: I was drawn to the Tablut and Tawlbyrdd variants by their historicity and their simplicity. If I was to consider simplicity alone then Simple Tafl should appeal to me even more, as it dispenses with the throne while having an almost perfect balance. However there is something about it that feels a bit odd, something which from a conversation I had with Hnefihunter I believe he also felt. I don't think it's the lack of a throne as such. Instead, as alluded to by Casshern, it may be something about the layout – perhaps the lack of 'pointiness' of the black formations, so not affording initial opportunities for attack by white, or the fact that white's pieces are somewhat strung out, or a combination of the two. I wonder if it might be worthwhile revisiting the bell-and-diamond layout used by Tawlbyrdd, but without a throne. I know that in the early days of this site this layout was one of several that were experimented with, and it was found to be rather biased towards black. But it was also found in other layouts that the presence of a throne didn't always grant a significant advantage to white. Perhaps with the greater experience that this community has accumulated we might now find that throneless bell-and-diamond is better balanced than before. Might it be worthwhile to hold an unrated tournament sometime to test that?
2020-05-09 20:56:12 Hagbard: I'll return about the setup matter after the tournament, but feel free to discuss it while you're in the mood.
2020-05-14 16:16:49 Hagbard: Would it be an idea that other countries also have a National Tournament July 1st, if the country has enough players for it? Interested right now: UK: xerxes, ChaolAibhne, animals USA: Jrton80 Russia: Сергей
2020-05-14 16:41:03 L716: @Hagbard: Personally, I would like to participate in Russian tournament, if there would be such thing. Also, maybe it makes sense to create not just Russian tournament, but general Eastern Slavic (ie Russia, Ukraine, Belarus) and call it Garðaríki or Rus' or whatever. Thus there will be more people partiscipating. Btw, Сергей isn't from Russia, he is from Moldova.
2020-05-14 17:55:59 Hagbard: The National Tournament registering button is now for all countries separately (UK, USA, Russia, Moldova etc.). If the players of a country want to use some other variant for their tournament, it's no problem. Primus Motor and organizer of the UK National Tournament is Steve Lonsdale ("xerxes").
2020-05-15 21:25:56 Hagbard: https://sn.dk/Lejre-Lokalavis--Midtsjaellands-Folkeblad/En-haand-til-Sagnlandet-Lejre/artikel/941402 https://sagnlandet.dk/kongehallen-aabner-29-maj-2020/
2020-05-15 22:24:48 Ded Fomich: Garðaríki tournament sounds good.
2020-05-16 17:03:04 Hagbard: The rating list has these numbers of players per country: USA 21, UK 9, Canada 9, Norway 9, Russia 8, France 6, Germany 6, Bulgaria 3, Ukraine 3, Brazil 3, Italy 2, Belgium 2, Denmark 1, Moldova 1, Spain 1, Mexico 1, Turkmenistan 1
2020-05-16 22:13:37 Hagbard: @onelightyear: country?
2020-05-17 17:57:29 sqAree: Copenhagen rules for the National tournament?
2020-05-18 16:25:07 Hagbard: https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=5EejTxqqKTQ&list=RDMM
2020-05-18 17:32:22 OdinHimself: @Hagbard: Very good. :)
2020-05-22 06:38:13 OdinHimself: They look great! :)
2020-05-22 10:04:24 MasterLuke: @OdinHimself: Thanks! I enjoyed designing them ;)
2020-05-29 21:30:19 Ded Fomich: Is the killing of V-man by two his colleagues still not implemented in Tyr variant? I’ve just faced such situation in my game with Cacreal.
2020-05-29 22:29:55 Hagbard: Not programmed. If you agree about it, the piece can be removed manually
2020-05-29 22:32:43 Hagbard: It would be important for the Ded fomich / Cacreal game, I can see that
2020-05-30 12:52:22 Ded Fomich: Okay, I'll just keep playing without that rule.
2020-05-30 17:25:25 Hagbard: With the rule you already won very elegantly.
2020-05-30 20:23:59 Ded Fomich: Yes, I know, I counted on that rule when I was doing my maneuvers. That’s all right, let the game be finished a bit later. It’s strange that I could even remember this rule. I always forget additional rules, especially about berserk moves.
2020-05-31 10:10:24 MasterLuke: @Ded Fomich and @Hagbard:A pity it can't be programmed, for it would add a little extra drama to the game... If my game Tyr in real live will be realised, the rule will certainly apply:)
2020-06-03 13:42:21 Hagbard: Overview of art here: http://aagenielsen.dk/siteart.php
2020-06-03 15:53:02 OdinHimself: It's great! So many tafl addicts have put a piece of their hearts in this drawings. It couldn't be more captivating.
2020-06-07 11:01:04 Hagbard: About the National Tournaments, to begin July 1st. Only three weeks to tournament start. I'd like to share a thought about number of participants. The UK tournament has 3 registerings now, and since the British took the initiative, the UK tournament will run in any case, I presume. For the rest of us, however, I'd suggest that it would take a handfull of players i.e. 5, to make a tournament. This have already USA and Russia. Left are at the moment 5 players. I'd suggest that rest of the players have their own tournament to find the winner of "Rest-World" (inspired from "Rest-Jugoslavia"). As of now it seems that the variants would be: UK: Copenhagen 11x11. USA: ? Russia: Historical Hnefatafl 9x9 (Saami Tablut) Rest-World: ?
2020-06-07 12:18:06 L716: @Hagbard: I'm afraid we (Russian Tournament) might not have enough players - one of the five players is a new one, who doesn't seem to be active currently. I'm not sure if this person will show up at the time. Do you want these tournaments to be exactly national tournaments or it's possible to create supranational Garðaríki, if, let's say, one or two active players from other eastern-slavic countries would want to join?
2020-06-07 12:58:59 Hagbard: My thought is that "5" is not a completely strict limit. Russia is an important hnefatafl area, and I'd say the Russia tournament runs anyway. As for larger areas, I could imagine a "Scandinavian National Master", though we'll never gather 5 players in Scandinavia for it. As for the Garthariki, a pure Russia National Master makes good sense, while it would not seem as fair that a Polish or Romanian player ended up being a Russia Master -
2020-06-07 14:06:05 L716: Poles and Romanians are not Eastern Slavs. Poles are Western Slavs and Romanians are not even Slavs (even though you could say they are binded to Slavs in a lot of ways), so they are not the topic of the discussion. What I'm proposing is uniting in one tournament only Eastern Slavs i.e. only players from nations originated from early medieval Rus' principalities under the rule of Rurik's dynasty. Those are: Russia, Belarus and Ukraine (and currently there are also two partially recognized republics DPR and LPR). Even though the relationships between countries could be complicated, Rus' principalities (aka Garðaríki) is the key and starting point of those nations identity. I don't think someone would be against, let's say, an Ukrainian citizen taking high place in predominantly Russian tournament, since we has so much common culture and history (which is not only medieval Rurikid dynasty, but all the way up to the end of the XX century). In many cases Eastern Slavs are even closer to each other than Scandinavians. So the question really is: do you want to stick to the current country divisions in order to make tournaments more "official" or there is a place for supranational associations.
2020-06-07 14:16:05 Hagbard: It's also up to you players from Russia & Belarus & Ukraine then. If everybody agree, it could be = Garthariki. I guess the only player in question is Steiger?
2020-06-07 14:28:27 L716: Currently Rossomaha (Ukraine) and Steiger (Ukraine/DPR) are active, and unfortunately I haven't seen Oddur (Ukreine too) for quite a while. I will write them and ask if they want to join.
2020-06-07 14:33:24 Hagbard: ok
2020-06-07 17:41:20 Ded Fomich: My approach is quite simple. The Slavs, who live in the territory of modern Russia, Ukraine and Belarus, are essentially one nation, we used to live in one State ☭ not so long ago. We are still closely tied by language, culture and mentality, we have a great amount of family ties — a huge number of Russians have relatives in Ukraine and Belarus, I am not an exception. The connection of reasonable people in our countries is even probably deeper in the current political situation. I grew up side by side with my friends and relatives and spent a lot of time there, so I don’t care about bureaucratic tantrums, oligarchic scrum and political propaganda, I can’t be forced to break this connection for these reasons. I shall therefore absolutely don’t mind if the Garðaríki tournament is won by an Ukrainian or by a Belarusian.
2020-06-07 17:59:50 Ded Fomich: * not mind
2020-06-07 18:23:11 Steiger: Garðaríki, sounds great. I'm in!
2020-06-07 18:53:46 Hagbard: - perhaps we should have a Commonwealth tournament... ;)
2020-06-07 19:57:59 Steiger: Интересно, не почувствуют ли себя обделёнными участники других национальных турниров, если я для нашего, Гардарического, призовой таблутик выделю?)
2020-06-07 21:29:56 thebigfoot: I wouldn't mind the USA national tournament being Copenhagen
2020-06-07 21:36:23 L716: Ну, ничто же не помешает им самим для себя тоже что-то выделить. Самоорганизация-с
2020-06-08 01:31:04 Steiger: Значится, повыпендриваемся. Утрём нос капиталистам!)
2020-06-08 01:34:05 Steiger: @Ded Fomich, Голова, тебе какой таблут больше нравится: мой крайний кленовый или Димона на кожаном поле с бронзовым королём? ;-)
2020-06-08 10:30:51 Hnefihunter: Раз уж тут такие именитые меценаты, то мне обязательно нужно привести себя в форму))
2020-06-08 12:00:51 Ded Fomich: @Steiger Раскудрявый клён зелёный, лист резной =). Саня, не вижу ни малейшего повода для сравнения, целиком и полностью ручная работа в моих глазах всегда поборет высокотехнологичные методы изготовления.
2020-06-08 17:33:59 Steiger: @Ded Fomich, вас понял! На днях опубликуем фоточку приза.
2020-06-08 18:36:42 Steiger: @Hnefihunter, давай, Лёха, дерзай!
2020-06-09 12:46:33 mihkkal: A North Europe Tournament in Saami Tablut would be interesting...
2020-06-09 13:00:58 Hagbard: @mihkkal: I would join that! That would be Norway, Denmark, Sweden, Finland and Iceland?
2020-06-09 13:04:42 Hagbard: That would be "Norden" ("Nordic countries").
2020-06-09 13:26:28 Hagbard: Suggestion for timing of Nat. Tourns: 1 day per move. Time buffer 6 days. Long game threshold 12 days.
2020-06-09 14:36:47 Hagbard: Some countries with many players: Canada 10, Nordic countries 10, France 6, Germany 5.
2020-06-09 17:32:17 Hagbard: "playtaflonline.com has expired" one gets when calling the site. What happened?
2020-06-09 20:30:31 sqAree: There are only two active players in Germany it seems.
2020-06-09 23:09:24 thebigfoot: @hagbard It seems the sight has been down for quite some time now.
2020-06-10 00:27:20 Hagbard: But until some days ago the beta.playtaflonline.com worked for most functions
2020-06-10 08:13:22 thebigfoot: I think the domain expired
2020-06-10 15:57:45 mihkkal: @Hagbard: Yes, a Norden tournament would be awesome.
2020-06-12 12:55:25 Hagbard: New in tourn. page: Steiger offered a prize for the winner of the Garthariki tournament!
2020-06-12 13:56:58 Hagbard: Play Tafl Online is running again! http://beta.playtaflonline.com/
2020-06-13 00:09:32 thebigfoot: Seems new players cannot make an account on playtaflonline
2020-06-13 13:40:21 Hagbard: Suggestion: Sergej, Moldova, never played any other variant than Tablut. In case the Rest-World comes to play the Copenhagen, would it then be an idea that Sergej instead joined the Garthariki?
2020-06-13 14:01:58 Hagbard: Suggestion: looking at the USA players, the Copenhagen seems to generally be the favourite variant. As also Thebigfoot asked for.
2020-06-13 14:12:44 Hagbard: Suggestion: looking at the Rest-World at this moment, the Copenhagen seems to be the favourite variant
2020-06-13 16:34:54 L716: @Hagbard: It can be discussed, if Сергей will show he can speak :D Till this moment it was not the case - none of us was able to make a contact.
2020-06-13 22:00:42 casshern: @Hagbard: Copenhagen is the variant that was introduced to me here in the US. I can safely say it is our preferred variant. Also, might I suggest allowing Canadian players to join our tournament as well, if they don’t have enough players of their own. It makes sense to me, since most of our major sports leagues have teams in the US and Canada.
2020-06-13 22:26:57 thebigfoot: @Hagbard I agree with casshern, I was thinking if the tournament could be North America, as to include Canadian players.
2020-06-13 22:27:30 thebigfoot: @hagbard Is there a limit for how many games you can invite to?
2020-06-14 00:15:42 ChaolAibhne: @Hagbard. With so many players taking part in tournament 168, I've struggled at times to keep on top of all my games, and have just there inadvertently let my game as black against Jrton80 time out. Could I request a feature whereby a notification would be sent out when a player is getting close to timing out, say 3 hours. Thanks.
2020-06-14 00:31:18 Mrwalrus: Начинается
2020-06-14 05:26:03 Hagbard: Made group North America.
2020-06-14 05:28:09 Hagbard: @thebigfoot: Open invitations for the same variant are limited to 4 shown.
2020-06-14 05:36:48 Hagbard: In the "My current games" page is an Enter button at the bottom, "Show my games and time buffers". This function is useful for keeping track of time buffers.
2020-06-14 06:49:11 Steiger: @Mrwalrus, что начинается?
2020-06-14 07:08:49 mrwalrus: он плачет, потому что он слишком медленный
2020-06-14 08:29:31 Steiger: @mrwalrus, его можно понять.
2020-06-14 14:26:59 Hagbard: The full scale reconstruction of the Viking King Hall in Lejre, Denmark, will be inaugurated at June 17th (postponed because of corona), all live-streamed to the world from 14:15 https://sagnlandet.dk/danmarks-stoerste-vikingehal/ The hall will be opened by the Danish Queen. The original hall was no doubt built by her ancestor in a straight line of kings and a couple of queens.
2020-06-14 20:06:07 ChaolAibhne: @Hagbard: Yes, the page with the list of my games usefully shows the time remaining for each game. I was thinking of an email alert for when someone isn't currently visiting the website.
2020-06-15 10:22:18 Hagbard: Who are the umpires of the UK, USA, Garthariki, Norden and Germany tournaments?
2020-06-15 21:57:52 Ded Fomich: I propose Steiger’s candidacy for an umpire during the Gàrðaríki national tournament. I also propose to increase the time buffer to ten days. Steiger had problems with timeouts during the last championship and I’m going to visit a small village in the middle of nowhere exactly at the beggining of July and I shall for sure have problems with Internet connection. Actually I’m not sure if I have any connection there.
2020-06-16 18:06:55 Steiger: @Ded Fomich, ну спасибо, дружище! Я, значицо, молчу - в судьи тебя не предлагаю (хотя ты самый подходящий вариант ;-)), а ты так, да?! Ладно, ладно...
2020-06-16 18:07:36 Steiger: I propose Ded Fomich’s candidacy for an umpire during the Gàrðaríki national tournament.
2020-06-16 18:26:18 L716: @Hagbard: Сan we have two umpires? :D Because it looks like they both have time issues. So, two is better than one.
2020-06-16 19:47:14 Steiger: @L716, а не слишком ли много командиров на одно лицо?)
2020-06-16 19:52:26 L716: @Steiger: "Из двух зол выбирай оба" :D. Или, как вариант, я могу предложить Hnefihunter'a, который скорее всего тоже найдёт причину отказаться. А потом мы все пойдём голосовать на форум чтоб сделать кого-нибудь судьёй насильно.
2020-06-16 19:59:04 Hagbard: The national tournaments are rather independent. Steve Lonsdale is fx. instigator for the UK tourn. Each tourn. will probably have its own umpire, and each tourn. can have its own variant. If a group thinks that it takes two umpires then that's it. It is technically possible to have its own timing also, fx. a different time buffer value for the Garthariki.
2020-06-16 20:51:18 Hagbard: I suggest Casshern as umpire of the Norden tournament, if he can be persuaded.
2020-06-16 21:01:21 Steiger: @L716, что голову морочить - кто тут у нас самый титулованый и высокорейтинговый? И вообще, с меня приз, так что гуляйте - сами разбирайтесь кто судьёй будет, я пас и точка!
2020-06-16 21:15:42 Hagbard: @ChaolAibhne: That would be difficult to implement.
2020-06-16 23:04:14 Ded Fomich: @Steiger Упёрся рогом, да? Ещё титулы да рейтинги мне вменяешь, жулик! Как будто не знаешь, какой из меня спортсмен, а также на чём и с каким крутящим моментом я те регалии вертел. Помыслил же я таковым образом: инициатива должна быть наказуема, кто приз предложил, тому и судить. Дело-то плёвое — правила исторические, многократно обкатанные, ничьих н
2020-06-16 23:05:31 Ded Fomich: ...не будет, сиди себе да плюй в потолок. Кстати, теоретически двое судей должно быть, один судит все игры, кроме своих собственных, а второй — игры первого, если такая надобность возникает. Тут такое уже практиковалось в мировых чемпионатах, если я правильно помню.
2020-06-17 05:45:34 Steiger: I propose L716’s candidacy for an umpire during the Gàrðaríki national tournament.
2020-06-17 07:54:05 L716: I propose Hnefihunter’s candidacy for an umpire during the Gàrðaríki national tournament.
2020-06-17 07:54:38 L716: And it's looks like it's time to vote: http://aagenielsen.dk/hnefataflforum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=124
2020-06-17 09:57:18 Steiger: "здесь завтра точно будет братство, но теперь война" (с)
2020-06-17 17:01:53 MasterLuke: ... and how NICE they are!! Especially the one with the Lewis Chess Warders and King,... But I like them all. :)
2020-06-17 17:40:02 Hagbard: @Garthariki: Have you decided about the time buffer?
2020-06-17 19:19:13 Hagbard: https://nyheder.tv2.dk/samfund/2020-06-17-danmarks-stoerste-vikingehal-genopfoert-kom-med-ind-bag-vaeggene
2020-06-18 06:07:08 OdinHimself: @Hagbard: I see you've discovered my house. Skål! 😃
2020-06-18 08:40:02 Hagbard: King's site, the Odin figure was found at the original hall: https://sn.dk/modules/xphoto/cache/60/631660_605_0_0_0_0_0_2.jpg Several locality names nearby derive from the word Odin up to this day.
2020-06-18 18:44:08 OdinHimself: @Hagbard: Which ones?
2020-06-18 18:49:35 Hagbard: Default timing: 1 day per move. Time buffer 6 days. Long game threshold 12 days.
2020-06-18 19:23:40 casshern: @Hagbard: I can umpire Norden Tournament. And may I suggest you as umpire of North American Tournament? As Ded Fomich mentioned, like it is done in the WTC, an umpire should not see over his own games. So, might it be more prudent to find an umpire(s) who is not participating in the tournament he/she is playing in?
2020-06-18 19:50:46 Steiger: Increase the time buffer to ten days - that would be great.
2020-06-18 19:51:17 Steiger: @MasterLuke, thank you!
2020-06-18 20:53:23 Hagbard: Thank you, Casshern! And I'll be glad to umpire the North American tournament, if the players agree. @Norden: Is it ok that Casshern umpire the Nordic tournament?
2020-06-18 20:54:47 Hagbard: That would be for Garthariki: 1 day per move. Time buffer 10 days. Long game threshold 20 days.
2020-06-18 21:17:14 Ded Fomich: @Hagbard Nice, thank you!
2020-06-18 22:22:51 Ded Fomich: @Casshern Yes, that’s exactly what I meant. @Gàrðaríki The situation around our tournament reminds me the situation in the ninth century, so I suggest not reinventing the wheel and follow the precepts of our ancient ancestors. I mean that it’s time for summoning of the Varangians. We need a mighty Varangian chieftain to put things right. The best candidate in our situation I see is our brother-in-arms OdinHimself if he and all of us agree. I don’t think that someone of us will be opposed to this decision. @OdinHimself My friend, give us a favour and be the umpire of the Gàrðaríki tournament, do an honour to us!
2020-06-18 23:10:19 mihkkal: Approves of @Casshern as umpire for @Norden
2020-06-19 00:41:08 Hagbard: @Germany: Do you have an umpire?
2020-06-19 06:28:49 OdinHimself: @Ded Fomich: I'll be honoured. My steel is yours, my Gàrðaríki friends!
2020-06-19 11:10:30 sqAree: No we don't, should we take care of finding one by ourselves? :D
2020-06-19 11:20:21 Hagbard: Yes please
2020-06-19 11:30:33 Hagbard: @Germany: - and I take it that you prefer the Copenhagen variant? The registered players used this one more often.
2020-06-19 13:15:22 Hagbard: Sergej, please give a word about, which tournament group you would want to join
2020-06-19 14:25:52 L716: @Hagbard: could you delete this topic, please? http://aagenielsen.dk/hnefataflforum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=124 We don't need it amymore, since OdinHimself agreed to be an umpire of Garðaríki
2020-06-19 14:50:58 Hagbard: The posts are quite entertaining though...
2020-06-19 17:16:16 Steiger: I vote for OdinHimself to be ours umpire!
2020-06-19 17:26:06 Ded Fomich: @OdinHimself Thank you, I knew we could rely on you! Skál!
2020-06-19 18:29:44 OdinHimself: @ Ded Fomich: Always! Semper fidelis!
2020-06-19 21:01:43 sqAree: I have no idea who'd want to volunteer to be our umpire.. ^^ But yes, we definitely want Copenhagen rules!
2020-06-20 06:33:42 Jrton80: ya know, casshern, while I hate the guy for never have beaten him, I would never worry about him being umpire for a game he was playing, then again, I am not sure the need for an umpire, @hagbard, tell me, do people whine about losing so badly that an umpire is needed? I am confused about that
2020-06-20 06:35:20 Jrton80: (Yeah, yeah, I know, don't drink and type)
2020-06-20 08:06:50 Jrton80: Of course, then I see "здесь завтра точно будет братство, но теперь война" And I say, no, you miss the point, it is War all the time, it is all about who has the biggest prick until the Age of reason, and then it was still the same. And still is until true reason is the basis of the current civilization
2020-06-20 10:01:54 Hagbard: @Jrton80: In the World tourn. with up to 400 games, there is often one or two games where suddenly doubt occur.
2020-06-21 22:40:30 Ded Fomich: Сергей is probably going to be a national master as the only participant of the Moldavian tournament.
2020-06-23 21:39:20 mihkkal: There will be an award to the winner of the Norden Tablut tournament: A game set for Tablut, and some other games traditionally played by the Sámi, such as Dablo and Sáhkku. Board and pieces designed by me, Ingemund Skålnes, and Astri Mari Nyborg. Box designed and set made (laser cut wood and 3D print) by Petter Pegge Ericsson.
2020-06-24 09:48:28 Adam: Hail makers of tafl boards! I have been invited to play Copenhagen Hnefatafl in a display game against a high ranking Norwegian chess player September 27th. Gulp. The location is a viking museum in Vestfold, Norway. They have a great shop and are keen to sell different Hnefatafl sets at the event and beyond. So if you have a Hnefatafl set product, from the individually hand crafted to the modern mass produced, let me know and I’ll put you in touch with the event organiser. mail me on: bartley.adam@gmail.com And good luck to all in the Nationals!
2020-06-24 10:38:54 Hagbard: https://www.tv2lorry.dk/sondagsmagasinet/vikingekongernes-hal
2020-06-24 10:41:05 Masterluke: I just registered for the tournament. Being Belgian, in what section will I play, against who and which rules? I really jumped into the deep here :)
2020-06-24 10:54:10 Hagbard: There could be a natural group Benelux & France? I take it that Belgium is too distant from Germany? Or else there's anyway the Rest-World with all players not in a group.
2020-06-24 10:59:15 Masterluke: The distance is of little importance, since it's played online, right? I just wondered which game I'll play. On the tournament page, I see both Copenhagen-rules and Tablut-rules, depending of the groups...
2020-06-24 11:02:31 Hagbard: Germany chose Copenhagen. If "Rest-World" were to be Sergej and yourself, the choice would probably be Tablut.
2020-06-24 12:28:43 Masterluke: That's okay with me, I prefer Tablut... By the way, I just saw the video (the link you posted) about the hall. I don't understand Danish, but I must say it's quite an impressive effort! If I ever come nearby, I'll surely visit it... With the modern machinery, it looks a bit too 'straight', too 'clean'... In viking times, the building would look much rougher. But now I'm hairsplitting, really... It's a fantastic building...
2020-06-24 12:43:11 Hagbard: It's a must see. Yesterday Midsummer Eve we were in the area for the bonfires, fantastic atmosphere. We bought annual passes because of this. The original hall also looked brand new 1300 years ago... It's all solid oak, very heavy, and people are allowed to touch it all (the helmet and the sword perhaps only with a guide), so in years it will have the used look.
2020-06-24 16:46:56 Steiger: Thanks, @Adam! I'll think about it.
2020-06-25 02:05:26 casshern: @Hagbard: I have withdrawn myself from the North American tournament. However, I have an idea for another tournament. Can we have a “Masters Tournament”, to start at the same time as the Nationals? I propose any player that either has a rating of 1600+ or has made it to any final of the WTC since 2014, which I believe is the first year that there were 2 stages/rounds. Rules would be Copenhagen. Same timing as Gàrðaríki group. Can you create a tab for “Masters Tournament” or players can register for National tournament and indicate here if there would like to join the Masters. Players like Sqaree, Stieger, Animals, etc, who would qualify for the Masters tournament, are invited, of course, if they are willing to play in two tournaments simultaneously. Adam, Odinhimself, and Bogd Khan are also invited of course!!! I very much enjoy playing with these fine gentlemen. And I think this would be a fine opportunity for Adam to get some extra practice before this big match! One last thing, does Germany have an umpire? If not, I wouldn’t mind being the umpire for their tournament.
2020-06-25 05:41:19 sqAree: Hey casshern, we don't have an umpire yet, so I guess we gladly accept your offer! Thank you! Also I would probably join your Masters Tournament if it happens, it's play for me to have a few simultaneous games.
2020-06-25 05:41:47 sqaree: I meant to say it's okay for me, not play for me. xD
2020-06-25 08:11:54 casshern: Lol, I mean, what do we do here: PLAY! 🤣
2020-06-25 08:16:59 casshern: So I guess that means the Masters tournament is on? Honestly, I would have been happy if it were just me and Odinhimself. But, you my friend are second to none! It would be my pleasure to once again face off against you.
2020-06-25 08:44:19 OdinHimself: @casshern: Long gone are the days when I could resist you. :) Nevertheless I'll be honored if we cross swords one last time.
2020-06-25 10:37:28 Hagbard: @casshern: Splendid idea! I've put a comment in the large forum: http://aagenielsen.dk/hnefataflforum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&p=1453#p1453
2020-06-26 12:06:29 Hagbard: Sergej, what would be your preferred variant?
2020-06-27 08:00:08 Hagbard: @"Rest-World": As for variant, Bogd Khan appears to much prefer Copenhagen? Sergej appears to much prefer Tablut? And Masterluke appears to play both variants?
2020-06-27 08:30:41 MasterLuke: I prefer Tablut, but I don't mind playing Copenhagen either :)
2020-06-27 17:53:20 Bogd Khan: I do prefer Copenhagen but it doesn't matter to me :)
2020-06-28 17:56:12 OdinHimself: For Steiger: https://gnolder.bandcamp.com/track/ntra-sm-lands-stenar Sounds familiar? :)
2020-06-28 19:37:58 Steiger: @OdinHimself, nice tune. Something remind, not sure.
2020-06-28 23:30:18 casshern: @Bogd Khan: Will you join Odinhimself, sqAree, and myself in the Masters Tournament?
2020-06-29 10:26:31 Hagbard: "Masters Tournament" with casshern, sqAree, OdinHimself and Bogd Khan?
2020-06-29 13:43:09 Bogd Khan: Thank you, Mario! I'll be happy to join you
2020-06-29 20:05:12 Adam: @Hagbard: I have joined the national tournaments and I believe that as a resident of Norway I qualify for the Norden Tablut 9x9? I would also like to join the Copenhagen Masters Tournament for some much needed axe sharpening!
2020-06-29 20:08:16 Hagbard: @Adam: ok
2020-06-29 20:21:12 Hagbard: Since some players are now in two tournaments and could have a hard time, then perhaps just as well use the Russian timing for all? : 1 day per move. Time buffer 10 days. Long game threshold 20 days.
2020-06-30 11:51:30 Steiger: @OdinHimself, but whole album remind me Isengard recorded by drunken in hell Fenriz!))) https://gnolder.bandcamp.com/track/de-fyra-ren
2020-06-30 19:55:42 Hagbard: Does the Masters group have an umpire?
2020-06-30 21:49:58 Hagbard: May Odin give you knowledge on your path. Nationals first move: Jrton80
2020-06-30 23:52:24 casshern: @Hagbard: No umpire yet. Would you mind? Hopefully, all tournaments will run smoothly, without need for an umpire.
2020-07-01 07:48:45 Hagbard: ok
2020-07-03 05:10:40 Jrton80: @casshern - ah, come on, you are going to beat my ass again? So sad :)
2020-07-04 08:39:49 OdinHimself: @Hagbard: Splendid!
2020-07-07 15:29:08 Hagbard: Note about the World Tourn.: http://aagenielsen.dk/hnefataflforum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&p=1457#p1457
2020-07-08 20:50:39 OdinHimself: @Hagbard: Or we can do it like in boxing. The reigning world champion plays only two games against the strongest contender, who won the right to meet him in the top final.
2020-07-09 08:13:28 Hagbard: Yes that's an idea. There is the practical aspect, that a tournament between the two top players one-on-one has a high risk of ending a tie. In a group of five, this risk is reduced. Fischer against Spassky had to play 21 games to find a winner. Each game lasted a few hours, while on the internet each game may last a few months...
2020-07-09 09:07:35 sqAree: Okay, but draws in Hnefatafl (Copenhagen) are extremely rare. Anyway I still think we should tweak the rules such that draws are impossible, but it won't make a practical difference.
2020-07-09 09:31:09 Hagbard: A tie in the sense that each player wins one game.
2020-07-09 12:01:55 sqAree: Ah got it. Good point. A finale group of 4 or 5 players is indeed probably better then.
2020-07-09 16:42:05 OdinHimself: Yes, my bad. I withdraw my proposal.
2020-07-12 04:31:30 Hagbard: @North America. Speaking as umpire; no-shows: L3monman and Timeywimey never showed up for the tournament, and their games have timed out (Timeywimey made one move). The two are removed from the tournament.
2020-07-15 08:12:24 MasterLuke: What is it whit those newcomers who invite to play a game, make one move - or none at all - and then let the time run out???
2020-07-15 17:05:28 Hagbard: Nat., first group to finish: Rest-World: #1 Bogd khan, #2 Masterluke, #3 Сергей (no-show)
2020-07-16 22:29:32 Hagbard: @UK. Speaking as umpire: Animals won the UK tournament, to become the UK National Hnefatafl Champion 2020! And with a full house, 4 pt.
2020-07-17 00:24:02 ChaolAibhne: Congratulations, Animals!
2020-07-17 11:13:55 xerxes: Congrats to Animals on winning the first UK National Championship (previous iterations have been English or Fetlar in Scotland).
2020-07-17 12:11:40 mihkkal: I'm also wondering about what @MasterLuke says. I've made open calls for games and they are answered by someone who doesn't move or make one move only. It's strange.
2020-07-17 14:21:13 animals: Thank you to ChaolAibhne and Xerxes for the fine competition. Good practice for the world championships!
2020-07-17 17:09:02 OdinHimself: Hagbard, on the photo of the Eastern gang: First from left to right is Dmitry Pashkov, then me, Fomich and Steiger last on the right.
2020-07-17 19:15:25 Hagbard: Thank you!
2020-07-19 04:37:21 Hagbard: @North America. Speaking as umpire: Cacreal won the North America tournament, to become the North America Hnefatafl Champion 2020!
2020-07-19 08:57:32 OdinHimself: Congratulations!
2020-07-19 17:13:53 Hagbard: @UK. Speaking as umpire: The UK tournament finished with the result: #1 Animals 4 pt. (full house), #2 Chaolaibhne 2 pt., #3 Xerxes 0 pt.
2020-07-19 23:35:32 casshern: @Norden: Speaking as umpire: Hagbard has won the Norden tournament, to become the Norden Hnefatafl Champion 2020! The Norden tournament has finished with results: #1 Hagbard 5 pts, #2 Mihkkal 4 pts, #3 Adam 3 pts. Congratulations to Hagbard and all participants for a nice tournament!
2020-07-20 11:06:01 mihkkal: Congratulations!
2020-07-20 11:09:48 Hagbard: Thank you! I enjoyed the tournament!
2020-07-20 17:22:01 OdinHimself: Congratulations!
2020-07-21 14:09:53 mihkkal: The Norden prize was mailed from Sweden to me a while ago but it's still in Sweden according to the tracking. It's being sent around the country a bit. I'll mail it to @Hagbard upon receiving it.
2020-07-21 16:53:20 OdinHimself: @ Gàrðaríki: Speaking as umpire: It seems like Ded Fomich has won the tournament and the prize, even though there are still two active games unfinished. No matter what the result is, he will be the 2020 Eastern champion! Congartulations! I will announce the final results once all the games are finished.
2020-07-21 16:59:23 Ded Fomich: @Masterluke Yes, Tyr is a very entertaining variant, Jrton80 convinced me to try it and I didn’t regret it. I don’t think that the word “simplicity” is the right word in relation to these rules in my case, I keep forgetting some of them during my games quite often, some of them couldn’t be programmed, there’s a number of bugs. That’s sad and it’s too complicated for me to keep all the information in my head. I’m just getting used to it now.
2020-07-21 17:06:09 Ded Fomich: But let me say some words about what you call tafl concept. This is just a terminology issue.I call it historical hnefatafl rules based on described by Linneaus game, because it’s the best documented body of rules, these rules are the root of all other modern rules. This just was determined by history. It’s the basis. All other modern rules with new (corner exits, shieldwalls, strong king, unarmed king, etc.) or adopted (e.g., elements from Bell’s variant of Ludus Latrunculorum, Seega, High Jump) implementations are superstucture, they all are tafl-based games in my eyes, forgive me for writing such a subversive thing here.
2020-07-21 17:08:41 Hagbard: @mihkkal: No hurry, though I look very much forward to see these games. Who is donating them? They will be brought along to the next classical board game day here in October, and the other instructors will be very envious.
2020-07-21 17:13:57 Steiger: @Ded Fomich, Ура Фомичу! Приз твой, дядька, с доставкой определимся ;-)
2020-07-21 17:15:14 Ded Fomich: That’s why in my opinion there’s nothing wrong with the implementation of new berserk movement’s variant (it can be called differently, ulfhednar movement for example), new variants of jumps, etc. It’s a pity that there are technical limitations for all that things. Other Tyr rules already stretch outside the basis. They just continue the tafl-based games evolution. The main thing is that new gameplay has to be interesting, it has to be fun. New rules have to represent a series of interesting choices as Sid Meier once said. Then it will be a good game. I like his approach in games design.
2020-07-21 17:17:32 Ded Fomich: @OdinHimself @Steiger Благодаря, Лучо! Благодарю, Саня! Skál!
2020-07-21 19:12:56 Adam: Congratulations Hagbard on Norden win!
2020-07-21 19:24:37 Hagbard: Thank you, Adam, the battle field was tough.
2020-07-21 20:55:04 MasterLuke: @ Ded Fomich: Thanks for reflecting your interesting thoughts on tafl and tyr ;)
2020-07-22 09:49:08 Masterluke: Hello Everyone, Some of you have played Tyr, mainly in the tournaments... This is a wake-up call, I’d like to see more people trying it, for it’s a real fun game, filled with action. ... :) Up until now the most enthusiastic players safe myself are Jrton80, L716, Hagbard, Ded Fomich and a few others. I’d like to thank these people for playing Tyr. I wrote down the rules, initially to create a more playable game on a large board like Alea Evangelii or Alea Berserk. I’ve written about it in the forum. It’s not my goal to make an ‘ultimate’ or ‘the best’ tafl game, for it’s altogether a game different enough to co-exist alongside the other variants, while still respecting the original principles of Tafl. In the last months, I have altered the rules, with great help and feedback from Hagbard, all in a long-running proces to create a modern derivative of Tafl. Different board sizes have been tested. to sum it up: - the first version had a working title ‘Alea Berserk Martens’: this game featured four indestructible ‘guards’ for the king, which can’t be captured but cannot take part in captures. - the starting positioning of the commanders have been changed. Two instead of four guards - instead of helping the king, the guards seemed to be more a hindrance, so they were all deleted. (Alea Berserk Martens 2) - in the meantime I designed the pieces (as well as for many other game variants too) - Another re-positioning of some pieces. By now the game is called ‘Tyr’. A first tournament proved this game is very balanced. - A smaller size on 13x13 has been tested, but this one proved very unbalanced. - Tyr 2 (on 11x11, 13x13, 15x15 and 17x17 boards) features a king who can jump, like the commanders. Once again, the smaller sizes are very unbalanced and will be omitted in time. - Latest idea I’d like to apply is the ability for commanders of both armies (and of course the king) to jump over their own men too, like in the old strategic game ‘Chivalry’ (and its suc
2020-07-22 09:52:53 Masterluke: Oops... My former message was not complete. Below the missing final sentences. - Latest idea I’d like to adapt is the ability for commanders of both armies (and of course the king) to jump over their own men too, like in the old strategic game ‘Chivalry’ (and its successor ‘Camelot’). This will be called Tyr 3. - My goal is to end up with one version simply called TYR. As of this moment, the 15 x15 has the biggest chanche to come out as the best version (17x17 is close but a bit upractical when played on a smart phone) Eventually, I’d like to create and sell a real-live game. So thanks for reading this. Comments and suggestions are very welcome. Some things can not be programmed, like the Varieagated men who can be killed only by other V-men, or a berserk move which combines jumping and capturing at the same time, as sugested by Ded Fomich.
2020-07-22 13:46:09 mihkkal: @Hagbard They are made by Petter Pegge Ericsson based on a Sámi tradition-inspired design by me, Astri Mari Nyborg and Ingemund Skålnes. For the occassion, Petter is selling them to me for a nice price, and I am donating them to the conpetition.
2020-07-22 13:46:58 mihkkal: *competition
2020-07-22 18:33:20 Brench: I’ve just been sent an offer of a draw in a game but I don’t See an accept draw button. Do I just resign if I want to accept?
2020-07-22 19:28:41 Hagbard: @Brench, no you also offer a draw. 2 * offer draw = Draw.
2020-07-22 22:18:42 Brench: Ok the button I see says “No offer draw”. That is a bit confusing.
2020-07-22 22:31:13 Hagbard: It should only say so, if you already offered a draw. Because another click on the button will remove the offer.
2020-07-29 08:53:49 OdinHimself: @Gardariki: Speaking as umpire - official ranking as follows: 1st place and title for Ded Fomich with total score of 7 pts. and only one loss, 2nd place for L716 and Steiger, both equal results with 5 pts. and 3rd place for Hnefihunter with total of 3pts. Congratulations to the top 3 winners!
2020-08-06 20:02:38 Hagbard: The Tablut/Dablo/Sáhkku game set arrived! Four boards and sets of pieces integrated in one box and very elegantly produced, a thousand thanks!
2020-08-07 17:15:54 Steiger: @Hagbard, waiting for pictures!)
2020-08-08 07:57:07 Hagbard: @Steiger: yes later
2020-08-09 09:03:08 Hagbard: @North America. Speaking as umpire: The North America tournament finished with the result: #1 Cacreal: 12 pt. (full house), #2 Garun19: 9 pt., #3 Jrton80: 8 pt., #4 Brench: 6.5 pt., #5 Holidayinnes: 4.5 pt., #6 Waegn: 2 pt., #7 Corbeau: 0 pt.
2020-08-11 18:53:34 ChaolAibhne: @Hagbard, could I make a request for a feature to display a timeline of a player's rating?
2020-08-12 10:21:44 ChaolAibhne: What's Simple Tyr? The intended definitive version of Tyr or another step on the way?
2020-08-12 13:29:26 Hagbard: Simple Tyr is Tyr without special pieces.
2020-08-12 13:30:43 Hagbard: Timeline of rating: bottom of Games Archive Search page: http://aagenielsen.dk/visallespil_soeg.php
2020-08-12 17:47:02 mihkkal: @hagbard @chaolaibhne Thanks for the interesting new function!
2020-08-13 00:49:57 ChaolAibhne: @Hagbard, nice work on the rating timeline! It's interesting to see my own progress over time and of others. Thanks for the quick development!
2020-08-13 22:55:47 MasterLuke: @ ChaolAibhne: Indeed, simple Tyr is conceived in relation to Tyr like 'Simple Tafl' is related to Historical Tafl. It's not the definitive version of Tyr, it will exist alongside 'regular' Tyr. That being said, I'm not quite sure which variant of Tyr will be the ultimate one: Tyr 1 (jumping commanders only), Tyr 2 (jumping commanders and king) or Tyr 3 (jumping commanders and king also jumping over own men). I'll make a decision once more test games or tournaments are played. In that respect, I'd be very happy with any feedback of the players.
2020-08-14 17:09:01 casshern: @Germany: Speaking as umpire: Konstantin Jaehne ("sqAree") has won Germany Tournament to become the Germany Hnefatafl Champion 2020! Final results are 1st place sqAree with 4 points and 2nd place Luizz and Haio tied with 1 point each. Congratulations sqAree and thank you to all participants!
2020-08-15 04:09:36 Jrton80: I looked at the new Tyr documentation - I love the Berserk move graphic - I got a real kick out of that.
2020-08-15 23:56:43 mihkkal: Norwegian Public Radio about Tafl in the past and present! In Norwegian. Link: https://radio.nrk.no/serie/studio-2-p2/MKRD04016120
2020-08-16 00:01:07 mihkkal: Go to "Tidspunkter", then "Vikingene spilte prehistorisk sjakk." The broadcast ends with the statement: "Vi sees på Aagenielsen.dk" ("See you at Aagenielsen.dk")
2020-08-16 08:14:29 Steiger: @mihkkal, well done!
2020-08-16 12:59:05 mihkkal: @Steiger I'm not involved in the production, just bringing the good news here :-)
2020-08-16 15:01:16 OdinHimself: @mihkal: Great, finally to hear something about hnefatafl from the vikings.
2020-08-20 16:00:17 ChaolAibhne: @Hagbard, which rules are you using for Sáhkku? (The Wikipedia entry mentions several variants.)
2020-08-20 16:10:26 Hagbard: These: https://result.uit.no/reaidu/vuovdaguoika-bircun/
2020-08-20 20:08:53 MasterLuke: @Hagbard: are the rules somewhere to read in English? I'm very curious about this game. Strange, just a few minutes ago I saw it listed under 'Play against humans' but now it's gone... (??)
2020-08-20 20:16:38 Hagbard: It is on page one of the game list now. It's described in Wikipedia as Vuovdaguoika or Gávkevuotna sáhkku: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sáhkku#Vuovdaguoika_or_Gávkevuotna_sáhkku
2020-08-20 22:05:23 MasterLuke: OK, thanks Hagbard. Not sure if I understand it completely. But I guess it will be clear once we're playing... :)
2020-08-21 00:18:30 mihkkal: The Gávkevuotna/Vuovdaguoika variant is an interesting choice. The more popular ones currently are Lágesvuotna (used for tournaments) and Máze (easy to ( learn). But I'm happy to see Gávkevuotna/Vuovdaguoika getting attention, for two reasons. Firstly: It is most authentic. This variant is not reconstructed from written sources but taught from player to player. Second: This variant may have the oldest roots, seeing how it has been found independently in two different locations (Gávkevuotna and Vuovdaguoika.
2020-08-21 08:10:04 mihkkal: One thing though: in the G/V variant of Sáhkku you may use your dice in any order you want. As far as I understand, the game is here implemented so the dice have to be used in a specific order. Is it possible to change this?
2020-08-21 09:24:34 Hagbard: The feature of using the dice ordered from low to high values is from the Ráisa sahkku and helped the programming. Now I attempt to make a Dablo also, and after that succeeds, I'll return and have a second look at the dice -
2020-08-21 09:28:12 mihkkal: @Hagbard I understand. It's so good to finally see a Sáhkku game for online play! And Dablo would be fantastic. Are you working with the South Sámi Dablo or Coast Sámi Dablo?
2020-08-21 09:35:02 Hagbard: I'm working on the Sørsamisk.
2020-08-21 09:50:07 mihkkal: @hagbard I'm stoked! Sørsamisk Dablo is one of my favorite games.
2020-08-21 09:51:16 Hagbard: And I noticed that it was chosen for the Saami game box
2020-08-21 11:25:39 MasterLuke: @Hagbard: I designed some pieces for the new sahkku game... Worth integrating in the game lay-out? See http://aagenielsen.dk/hnefataflforum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=120&p=1468#p1468
2020-08-21 12:49:08 Hagbard: Thank you! There is the thing of a piece's direction, a special characteristic of sahkku. Well, moving direction is part of all racing games, I suppose, but it's a speciality of sahkku that two neighbouring pieces can move in different directions.
2020-08-21 22:31:09 ChaolAibhne: @Hagbard, the replay facility for Sáhkku doesn't seem to display correctly, instead showing a Copenhagen-style board
2020-08-21 23:12:33 Hagbard: There's not written a replay for the Sáhkku and the moves are not archived.
2020-08-23 20:29:52 MasterLuke: Check this out: a stroke of genius or maybe I'm a complete fool? http://aagenielsen.dk/hnefataflforum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=127&p=1478#p1478
2020-08-24 10:01:14 ChaolAibhne: Did I dream it as I fell asleep last night, or did Tournament 183 temporarily leap to having 14 participants and become an unrated *10 game? If the former, does that mean there is no hope for me if tafl is now appearing in my dreams?
2020-08-24 11:15:25 Hagbard: ;) Does sound ominous! It was an unfortunate side effect of developing two new Saami games. It did not affect anything.
2020-08-24 13:36:12 ChaolAibhne: @MasterLuke, it is often a fine dividing line ;-)
2020-08-24 19:09:19 ChaolAibhne: @Hagbard, what do you think of the idea of automatically posting a notification to the small forum whenever someone posts to the large forum? For example: MasterLuke has posted to "I've started to draw a few graphics for aagenielsen.dk" http://aagenielsen.dk/hnefataflforum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=120&start=160#p1477
2020-08-25 22:26:49 MasterLuke: ... and they're very, very beautiful!! Congrats to Alexander ;)
2020-08-26 08:18:18 Steiger: @MasterLuke, thank you! Making taflsets gives meaning to my existence.
2020-08-28 19:47:47 Hnefihunter: @Hagbard,The button Check my games is not displayed while playing Sáhkku.
2020-08-28 20:54:51 Hagbard: @Hnefihunter: It is when you've used your three dice.
2020-08-28 21:31:00 Hnefihunter: @Hagbard: Ok. Takk!
2020-08-29 00:40:17 Jrton80: @ChaolAibhne I often fall asleep with visions of my next moves in my head - I don't see the problem
2020-08-31 08:36:18 mihkkal: I see Sáhkku now has implemented the modern "begin with three pieces activated" rule. A good choice imo. Tilts the chance-skill balance more towards skill. Without it you can effectively lose a game just by not getting enough X'es in the beginning.
2020-08-31 09:50:19 MasterLuke: I really love the versatility of the basic Tafl-moves and concept... so another crazy (?) idea came to my mind: check this one out! http://aagenielsen.dk/hnefataflforum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&p=1481#p1481
2020-09-01 14:12:38 MasterLuke: I keep having those ideas: maybe they work, maybe not... after 3-player Talf, Scrabble-Tafl, here is 'Throne-Tafl'. see http://aagenielsen.dk/hnefataflforum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=129&p=1482#p1482 I promise this is the last one - for now :)
2020-09-02 11:36:13 mihkkal: @MasterLuke I remember a group once improvised 3-player Tablut at board game evening at Oslo Sámi House. But it was pretty different. As I remember the rules and setup was the same as usual but the atrackers were divided up between two players. I'm not sure if the the turns went Attacker 1 - Defender - Attacker 2 - Defender etc or Attacker 1 - Attacker 2 - Defender etc. In any case it was interresting due to the obvious challenge to Attckers: communicating your plans to your partner without the Defender catching on.
2020-09-02 14:12:51 MasterLuke: @mihkkal: Very interesting... Now that you mention it, I didn't include a playing order in my rules, but I guess Attacker 1, Attacker 2 and then Defender would feel most natural. Like the regular 2-player game, the attackers always begin. Otherwise they wouldn't be attackers, no? And indeed, one of the special treats of this concept is the possibility to 'work together'... up to a certain point, that is. Near the end, I guess the attackers will work against each other for absolute victory. :)
2020-09-10 17:47:46 ChaolAibhne: "Sáhkku is a racing game houndreds of years old". Dog racing? ;-)
2020-09-10 18:08:06 Hagbard: I believe that the correct term should be "race game" but I dare not say such words in these times...
2020-09-10 21:23:19 mihkkal: A running-fight game to be precise. That is, a mix between a race game and an elimination game. The two teams are in Sámi referred to as "men" vs. "women."
2020-09-13 11:15:56 mihkkal: How does one solve a tie in a Sáhkku tournament? There may be a plan in place for this potential issue already, here at Aagenielsen.dk, but in case not there are two ways that have been established through modern offline cups. 1: The tied players face off in a match of Tie-Breaker Sáhkku, a special variant invented to solve ties quickly. This was invented before the first open Sáhkku Cup but has never been utilized in practice, since there has never been a need for it. Here, it would necessitate programming a new and entirely modern Sáhkku variant, so probably not an optimal choice 2: Counting surviving soldiers. When Sáhkku is used for betting, the number of surviving soldiers on the winning team has been used to calculate how large the sum won has been. So, it pays to win by a good margin, that is with many surviving soldiers. Inspired by this, cup play has also used this principle to differ between players. Two players are ranked equally because they won against another player? The player that retained most soldiers in their match is deemed best. Two players are ranked equally because they lost against another player? The player that killed the most soldiers on the other team is deemed best. If using this principle (survivor count) as a tie breaker, I guess one way of implementing it here could be to look through all final board positions of the tied players throughout the tournament and see who, in total, had the largest number of surviving soldiers. That's a bit of work though. Another option is of course to allow the tournament to end with several winners
2020-09-14 17:43:35 Agmundr: Warriors of the world! Its time to sharpen your swords and axes! Good luck to everyone, and raise your horns for a toast! Skål! 🍻
2020-09-14 18:19:17 OdinHimself: @Agmundr: Skål, viking brother!!! If I have to choose with whom to fight side by side until death, it would be you, the purest and most unadulterated viking of us all! Sheilds up and march forward, face death and enter the Golden hall!
2020-09-14 18:42:41 Agmundr: @OdinHimself: Thanks for the good words my viking brother! I would fight by your side at any time! 🍻
2020-09-14 22:36:41 Hagbard: May Loki give you laughter as you go.
2020-09-16 21:37:49 mihkkal: Congratulations!
2020-09-20 08:41:13 Hagbard: Copenhagen tournament, speaking as umpire: Gungnir and Arevidar never showed up for the tournament and the games have timed out. Removed from the tournament.
2020-09-23 16:52:33 OdinHimself: Go Bulgaria, go!!! :)
2020-09-26 10:26:58 Hagbard: Live streamed tomorrow: https://www.usn.no/forskning/forskingsdagane/kalender/hnefatafl-hjernetrim-for-vikinger
2020-09-26 16:20:47 OdinHimself: We raise our swords for Adam!
2020-09-27 15:05:49 Steiger: Congrats, Adam!!!!
2020-09-27 15:08:44 Steiger: The guillotine rules!!!
2020-09-28 09:55:01 Hagbard: The good old guillotine! Congratulations, Adam, on a fine show!
2020-09-28 10:35:43 OdinHimself: Please, add link to see the game!
2020-09-28 11:22:28 Hagbard: It was live streamed. I've searched for some archive of it but in vain. Adam's opponent was 3rd strongest chess player in Norway.
2020-09-29 13:18:50 Adam: Thanks guys, it was a great day for Hnefatafl. My oponent Johan Sebastian was very sporting. I am hoping that some form of the live stream footage will soon become available at which time I will put out a link. It was a great way of raising awareness for the game, combining local university research, the local museum, the Norwegian chess federation and the Tafl Federation. It was all thanks to one of our newer players 'Jules' from Holmestrand in Norway who organised the event for the University. After the display match the public were invited to play Copenhagen rules in the smoky atmospheric Gildehall, so Tafl's ancient roots and bright future were woven into the same day. By the way, for those wondering, the result was 1:1 - I lost as black as JS made brilliant strategic use of his lightning chess skills (we used a chess clock to ensure the days schedule could be followed) and then I won as white, after JS tried to break my guillotine by ramming all of his men into it, which when the clock is ticking is pretty nerve wracking I can tell you!
2020-09-29 17:31:03 Steiger: @Adam, strange, I think you'd won first game as black to, 'cos Johan Sebastian has time out. No?
2020-10-01 13:05:26 Adam: @Steiger, it was down to the wire, but it was me that timed out. It illuminated an interesting problem, which is that the asymmetry of the game means that the chess clock doesn't really work for Hnefatafl. As we know, white wins happen in far fewer moves on average than black wins. Not that I am complaining of course, he took advantage of it fair and square. It's a pity though as the clock pressure really adds something to the game.
2020-10-01 17:27:12 Steiger: @Adam, I got it, thanks! Anyway, it was a great performance.
2020-10-01 20:14:48 Jrton80: Is it just me or is the replay on the Saami Daabloe 11x9 a bit bugging?
2020-10-02 13:47:40 ChaolAibhne: @Hagbard, in my game as black against mmgaari at Brandubh 2 I've just been surprised to have the system impose a loss on me on the grounds of repetition. There had warnings about repetition, but it wasn't specified who was doing so; it was only after I had lost that a message said that it was black. I assumed that it was white that was being warned. My move 15 threatened an attack on one of white's pieces and his response threatened one of mine. My move 17 had no direct threatening aspect to it. Is it not white's move 18 that should be judged as the start of the repetition?
2020-10-02 16:41:39 Adam: @ ChaolAibhne - after looking carefully, I agree with you, the computer is seeing a reapeat of a board position that you first set up on move 15, but what is not being repeated in your final move is 'how' that position came to be. So I would argue that the computer should be overruled in this instance. @Hagbard - from a programming perspective, could the computer be told to look for a board position which has been repeated in the same 'way', not just repeated visually? as in: IF 'board position' AND 'move that led to board position' are repeated 3 times end game. (in my VERY clumsy pseudo code). Or maybe all the pieces could be given an identity, such that a repeat of a single piece shuffling could be detected? This would also deal with detection problems when white shuffles as black does lots of different moves.
2020-10-02 17:47:49 Hagbard: @Adam, ChaolAibhne and Jrton80: I'll attend to these things soon. Right now I'm occupied by a number of nasty positions in the tournament -
2020-10-03 10:44:45 Hagbard: @ChaolAibhne: I've had a look at the game. The comp detects that black attempts to break through from line E to line G by consistently moving a black piece e2-e3-e2 etc. (attacking), and a white piece consistently blocks the way for this black piece by moving f2-f3-f2 etc. (defending). After a number of repetitions of this pattern, the blocking (defending) side won. But as you write, what is going on can also be seen in a different light: the white piece consistently attacks the black piece to be captured, and the black piece consistently evades this attack. The comp detects for the first case (side stepping for break through), but not for the second case (side stepping for avoiding capture). Interesting example!
2020-10-03 15:55:59 Hagbard: Is there a repetition? Yes indeed! Who causes it? That is uncertain here, both could be causing it. Is black moving back and forth to break through or to avoid being captured? It is not obvious that it would be an advantage to break through, but who knows the player's plan? The computer does not know the player's plan and neither would an umpire. Is white moving back and forth to block black from breaking through or to capture the black piece? Also noone knows. I suppose that an umpire should call this situation a repetition from both sides and a draw!
2020-10-03 16:22:21 Hagbard: NB. See also the large forum on this.
2020-10-03 18:33:18 Adam: @Hagbard, sorry, i disagree. I think its pretty clear. The rule says: Perpetual repetitions are forbidden. The player who causes the repetition must find an alternative move or else he loses the game. ChaolAibhnes move 15 creates the board pattern that ends up being the repetion that the computer spots, but it's not a repetition of ChaolAibhnes previous moves, as the computer is counting move 15, which isnt part of the repeated sequence. Even if white is reacting to move 15, white is starting the cycle of repeted movement here. Now, I think the rule ought to be spelled out more clearly, a repetition of movement , not a repetition of board pattern, which just happens to be how the computer spots a repetition, and in this case eroniously. A repetiton of board pattern is clearly not what the rule means. What if a board pattern was repeated that last happend 20 moves ago after much else has happened and pieces within the pattern have been exchanged? It would be absurd.
2020-10-03 20:57:50 Hagbard: @Adam: I saw the replay again, and it is as you say. White is the first to attack with move 16, and black's move 17 would thus be an escape from the attack more than a break through attack of its own. Although in another game black could kill two birds with one stone and do an escape and attack at the same time. The computer only looks for break through attempts and not for capture attempts, and therefore it didn't spot the white attack. The matter of repetition and who did it has been a difficult subject always. Unhandyandy suggests in the large forum to simply let repetitions be black wins.
2020-10-04 07:18:04 Hagbard: - And I believe that some of Ytreza's thought experiments last year also aimed at demonstrating, that it definitely cannot always be decided for a repetition, who is the "aggressor". This is a problem for a rule phrasing which presumes, that an aggressor is always known.
2020-10-04 07:20:29 Hagbard: - The origin of the current rule phrasing is, by the way, the Foteviken Museum in Scone.
2020-10-04 08:34:43 casshern: Please forgive my ignorance here, as I do not play Brandubh. Although move 15 is an attack on a white piece, white could move f3-g3 or king to d3. Not sure if either of these moves is strong or if white is simply in a losing position. The move repetition clearly starts on move 16 when white moves f3-f2 and black has to protect the piece while still trying blocking the corner (reacting to the aggressor). I have gone into more details of my opinion on this matter in the large forum. If anyone would like to read and respond with their thoughts.
2020-10-04 14:30:04 Adam: The repetition topic seems to be a bit spread around in the forum. I’ve had a read, and unless someone can prove that black can't force a repetition situation, the rule ought to apply to both. The idea that the game is already asymmetrical is not a good argument for the rule to only apply to white. On the contrary. I enjoyed the situation Ytreza proposes. Black needs to do something else when the cycle completes a second time. To clarify, I propose rule 8 read this: ’Perpetual repetitions are forbidden: the player who starts a repeating sequence of moves must find an alternative move to prevent a third cycle beginning, or else lose the game.’ It seems that the only reason this is a problem, is figuring out how to get the computer to recognise the repetition correctly. So no reason to change the rule. A human umpire can figure out cases of dispute when they crop up.
2020-10-04 21:09:13 casshern: What we are talking about is the very essence of the game. The set up with black on the edge and white in the center, makes it so that white has to get past black. The point is that the king cannot do it on his own. He needs the help of his men to create and advantage to escape. Miller’s Guillotine proves that this can be done. And that is the point here. The responsibility of creating an advantage and not falling into a repetition falls on white. Be definition, black strategy is to repetitively and perpetually block white from getting past. An issue I can see, is if black were to create an advantage for the win and either intentionally didn’t got for the win or lacked the skill to complete the win. And as the rules state, draw forts are a lose for white. So a repetition caused by a draw fort is still a lose for white. White should just resign or continue to try to create an advantage for a win than to create a repetitive position.
2020-10-04 22:17:14 ChaolAibhne: There appears to be a consensus agreeing with my contention that it is actually white that initiates the repetition in my game with mmagari of Brandubh 2; that is, the system is not detecting repetition in the way that the rule intends. @Hagbard, is there a possibility of returning our game to the point just prior to the when the system ended it and resuming it on the understanding that white must find an alternative to the repetition? Otherwise I would be happy for the game to be treated as null and void and for our previous ratings to be restored.
2020-10-04 22:20:00 ChaolAibhne: Congratulations @Mihkkal and @Steiger. I'll need to work on my Tablut game for next time!
2020-10-05 07:53:52 Steiger: @ChaolAibhne, thanks for a great games and for congrats. Glück auf!
2020-10-05 09:58:39 mihkkal: Thanks for the games and the congrats @ChaolAibhne!
2020-10-05 10:51:01 Hagbard: The discussed game is turned into a black win and ratings adjusted.
2020-10-06 22:24:33 Jrton80: I too remember Ytreza's thought experiment and I never bought into it. First, there were just too many logical gaps in what I read that I could not take it seriously. Second, I still have yet to see proof it is possible. I am not playing that phone app anymore since it calls Black repetition (well, that and the screen it too small for my old eyes), and no matter how many times I go through the the game, I am still not seeing it as black doing the repetition. In My opinion, Black forcing a repetition is not a real thing. It has been a while now and I still have seen nothing to change my mind.
2020-10-07 10:22:37 Adam: Speaking as umpire: Hnefihunter, L716, Mihkkal, Steiger, Ded fomich and Cacreal together with Casshern qualified for Saami Tablut Round 2 (the Tablut Final). The Tablut Final starts Oct. 8th at 18 o'clock Danish time. Good luck!
2020-10-07 11:04:45 Adam: @Casshern, this is an argument that holds water, the very essence of the game. In chess the repetition rule (which incidentanly is based on position, not movement, so much for my previous comment!) results in a draw. In Tafl it is a loss, due to this essence of the game. @Jrton80, I agree, the Ytreza example was as full of holes as an old Viking's shield. But I enjoyed the idea of a longer looping sequence. I agree that noone has proved that black can force a repetition. However noone has proved that they can't either, which is rather the point of all this. I have decided to set myself the challenge of creating a board situation where black could force a draw by repetition. I doubt I can manage it. In the mean time, here is a suggestion: We could ammend the rule as has been suggested to a white loss, and ammend it further should a case of black forcing a repetition come up in game play. But wait!! That is precisely what has just happened (ChaolAibhne vs mmgaari), IF we agree that repetition is based on position as in chess, and NOT on a cycle of moves as I suggested below. IF repetition is based on position, then black CAN force a draw by repetition. Something an extremely cunning white player (mmgaari) could take advantage of if black is not paying attention. This is all very academic, but I see in Chess federation rules that the whole repetition business requires claims, checking of move history and confirmation by witnesses. Its a tricky business. It seems to me the onus in Chess is very much on the other player NOT to get themselves into a permanent checking position. But then, my eyes too are old and bent...
2020-10-07 11:10:15 Adam: @myself, mind you, that would mean the advantage was still to white...so the repetition should be counted as a white loss. You guys are geniuses.
2020-10-08 17:07:03 Hagbard: May Thor grant you strength and courage on your way.
2020-10-08 17:08:00 Steiger: Good luck to all!
2020-10-14 18:12:24 Hagbard: It could take a long while, before the last group of Copenhagen Round 1, Vinland, finishes. Any other outcome of the last two games than 1-0 in both games would immediately qualify Luizz for Round 2. If the outcome is 1-0 for both games, then Luizz, L716 and Holidayinnes all have 6 points. The three players' games against each other are in this case all pairwise even. Next criterium is the Sonneborn-Berger score, which in this case would be Luizz 26 points, L716 18 points, Holidayinnes 18 points, that is, also in the case of 1-0 for both games, Luizz would qualify for Round 2. In any case, Luizz qualified for Round 2.
2020-10-14 18:12:52 Hagbard: Speaking as umpire: Fastov, Luizz, Animals, Xerxes, Draganov and Steiger together with Odinhimself, Bogd Khan, sqAree, Adam, cacreal and garun19 qualified for Copenhagen Round 2. The Copenhagen Round 2 starts Oct. 17th at 18 o'clock Danish time.
2020-10-17 17:29:56 Hagbard: May Thor grant you strength and courage on your way.
2020-10-18 19:33:18 ChaolAibhne: Thanks, @Hagbard. That seems to me to be fairest to the other contestants.
2020-10-19 11:56:42 Draganov: Here is the match between Adam and Johan-Sebastian Christiansen. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xt8MBAWfBPk
2020-10-19 12:01:05 Draganov: I hope that the Hnefatafl game will become more and more popular. It would be a good idea if chess clock is included but with time addition. For example adding 15 seconds after the move is done. Actually Adam had winning position in the first game with the black pieces but timed out. If there were time addition he should probably won.
2020-10-19 12:01:24 Draganov: Anyway, it was a great day for the Hnefatafl game.
2020-10-20 12:13:12 Adam: @Hagbard: an interesting question came up on the WTF fb page: "Is there ludus latrunculorum, petteia championship - seems like those games are highly flawed and they always result in draw or stalemate" - Cyningstan talks about these games, and I know Beserk Hnefatafl owes a lot to Ludus. As other ancient games are now being looked at here, might it be an idea to put these ancient games through the grinder and see what comes out?
2020-10-20 12:19:52 Adam: @Draganov: Yes, the clock really stirred things up! Years ago I toyed with the idea of making a tafl clock with two hour glasses fixed togther in a frame at 90 degrees to each other, just to prove that in theory, the vikings could have used one! But joking aside, while the chess clock was great fun, it does run into a problem with the game's asymmetry. It might work better with historical hnefatafl, but even then the difference in goals still skews the effect of time pressure. Its an interesting problem, I'd like to hear if anyone else has had a go at tafl with a chess clock.
2020-10-20 12:38:27 Hagbard: @Adam: I had the same thought, now that a series of games other than tafl had been implemented, Saami & Hex. It seemed natural to expand with the closely related ancestor of tafl, and I searched the web for information on Ludus Latrunculorum and found many various rules sets, all of them looking very bad in my opinion. None of the rules looked well functioning to me. Petteia I haven't looked into.
2020-10-20 12:45:02 Hagbard: (True, I used elements of described Ludus Latrunculorum rules for the Berserk Hnefatafl and made the game work. But Latrunculi rules used for Latrunculi, as they are described, do not look like something, which would work well.)
2020-10-21 09:52:58 Abbas Agraphicus: @Adam: Looks like half an hour of time is a big limitation when it comes to matches where black is conducting and needs to adjust the formation to encircle the opponent or something like that. What about just putting a limited amount of time for the players to do each move?
2020-10-21 10:25:46 Adam: @Hagbard: It sounds ike a job for this community then! I suppose some digging for original sources is in order, if our experience with tafl rules is anything to go by. Damian Walker has a nice page on the two games. Its graeat as the diagram there looks like a hnefatafl rule image.
2020-10-21 10:31:35 Adam: @Abbas Agraphicus: That is an excellent suggestion. In fact, I beleive I am right in saying that the first ever Hnefatafl World championship, held in Fetlar, used a gong to tell everyone time was up for their move, if I remember rightly! I suspect black will still be at a disadvantage with time pressure. But it neatly solves the problem of time running out for black.
2020-10-21 11:13:08 Abbas Agraphicus: @Adam: Yes, of course a ticking clock will always be an additional pressure on black. But in a context of official live tournaments, where a time limit of some sort is unavoidable, it could be a fair compromise. Obviously that should be somehow tested to understand what is the right average time needed to do a move.
2020-10-22 11:45:20 Adam: @Abbas Agraphicus: Lightning Hnefatafl is great fun, though I have a suspician that any tournament using any time limit system would end up with an aweful lot of white wins. White has four targets to attack (plus exit forts) and one to defend, while black has one target to attack and four (plus exit forts) to defend. So its a good deal easier for black to slip up catasrophically under time pressure.
2020-10-22 12:00:46 mihkkal: @MasterLuke Old topic by now but someone reminded me of 3 player Tablut and so: Yes Attacker 1 - Attacker 2 - Defender has a certain logic to it I think but I guess it does make the game much more difficult for Defender. The Attackers have a disadvantage from being split between two players that don't communicate but still it may be too much for the Defender if two Attackers get to move between every time one Defender moves? That's the reason maybe Attacker 1 - Defender - Attacker 2 - Defender etc would work better for a balanced game... maybe. I don't know.
2020-10-22 13:05:34 Abbas Agraphicus: @Adam: right, I see
2020-10-22 19:28:25 MasterLuke: @mihkkal: You know, I think you could be right about the order of the moves... It's worth trying. But as it is, I find it difficult to convince people to play tafl in real life, let alone three... Some genius should make it work online to try out :)
2020-10-24 18:29:28 Draganov: Tafl game is asymmetry, so probably it would be a good idea to use asymmetry clock. The black could have 50% more time than the white. In case of a blitz game it would be like 15 minutes for black and 10 minutes for the white.
2020-10-24 18:30:41 Draganov: Time addition would be good too because it is not good when the game is over due to time-out. Adding 15 second per move will resolve this problem.
2020-10-26 21:01:20 Adam: @Draganov - I wondered about an asymmetry clock too. I couldn't land on a logic for how much more time to give black though. With a gong system black could have longer to think per move. But is it four times as easy to slip up as black? Twice as easy? I wonder if a timer could measure how long players take, at least on average, to move as black and as white on this site? It would give a rough indication of any imbalance in thinking time between black and white, which could be a good starting point for testing the idea.
2020-10-27 10:28:37 Abbas Agraphicus: @Draganov @Adam: this is very very interesting, but let me do the devil's advocate: don't you think that a statistic about thinking-time would be inaccurate if based on internet games? I mean, how can one know if the moves were slow cause of a tactic problem or cause the user was busy and couldn't move frequently? Or maybe a very large number of games would anyway give back a reliable data?
2020-10-27 16:42:29 Draganov: I think that the only way to see what time control will work for Hnefatafl is by practice. We need probably a couple of hundreds games in order to see which time control will be the most balanced. In my opinion black having twice more time would be good. The statistics show that when even players played against each other, the player playing with the black pieces has an advantage. So, in my opinion the black time should not be twice bigger than the white's.
2020-10-27 16:44:23 Draganov: Is there a way to implement time control for testing purposes on this site and play online in real time? Or we can play somewhere else with a time control in order to find the time control that will work well. I am ready to play as a tester of different time controls.
2020-10-28 19:18:03 Adam: @Abbas Agraphicus - i agree - i was thinking it might be able to give us a ballpark figure with the large amount of games played. But probably the information isnt there for past games in any case. I was thinking also just about the amount of time it takes from seeing the board to clicking the send button.
2020-10-29 23:57:44 Abbas Agraphicus: @Adam: maybe I'm taking this too far but, could the game-lenght ratio be significant to the purpose? Meaning: how much longer must be a game to let black win on average? For example in Copen. Hnefatafl it is 1.7, so maybe black could have 2x clock-time than white. Don't know...just thinking out loud
2020-11-05 17:06:46 Adam: @Abbas Agraphicus: I think that's a very good suggestion. The averages would certainly be meaningful given the large number of games in the archive.
2020-11-09 10:11:39 OdinHimself: @Steiger: You did it again brother! Great tafl set and description! Respect! :)
2020-11-09 10:51:02 Steiger: @OdinHimself, благодарю, дружище!
2020-11-09 22:53:51 Abbas Agraphicus: Guys, a stupid question: how many elos do you start with when you sign up here?
2020-11-09 23:43:58 MasterLuke: @Steiger: That new game in the gallery is absolutely awesome!
2020-11-10 06:34:22 Hagbard: @Abbas Agraphicus: 1500
2020-11-10 09:46:08 abbas agraphicus: @Hagbard: alright, thx!
2020-11-10 16:22:06 Steiger: @MasterLuke, thank you!
2020-11-12 19:42:44 Steiger: I'm proud, danke! Glück auf!
2020-11-13 17:21:03 OdinHimself: And again, slap on the back for Steiger, and warm greetings for the puzzle! :)
2020-11-13 18:28:48 Abbas Agraphicus: @Steiger: Do you have a personal web space or something, where you show your works? They look good.
2020-11-13 18:36:37 Steiger: @Abbas Agraphicus, only instagram and facebook.
2020-11-13 19:08:18 Steiger: @OdinHimself, \m/.
2020-11-13 19:17:27 Hagbard: https://www.instagram.com/steigerdis/?hl=ru http://aagenielsen.dk/taflshop_steiger.php
2020-11-20 18:09:28 Draganov: @Hagbard: I would like to ask for the decision of the umpire on my game against Garun19. The position that we reached is very strange and I cannot avoid move repetition. However, if the black (Garun19) plays something to break my position I will win by an exit fort. Please, look at the position and decide if it would be a draw or I need to lose because of move repetition.
2020-11-20 18:58:13 Hagbard: Very peculiar situation indeed. True, it is possible for white to repeat and impossible for black to stop it or destroy the white formation. However, this formation is not among those formally considered an exit fort. Therefore white will be considered to repeat and to lose by repetition. When you continue the game, the computer will detect the repetition. So as umpire: White is enclosed and will lose by repetition after a number of moves.
2020-11-20 20:02:39 Draganov: @Hagbard: Thank you for the explanation and your judgement. So, I will resign. However, it is really an interesting position :)
2020-11-21 10:54:30 Abbas Agraphicus: @Hagbard: being myself italian and mostly interested in brandubh, I'd be happy to provide an italian translation of the rules. Maybe that could help other players to understand the game. Let me know if it can be useful. Bye.
2020-11-21 19:21:05 Hagbard: @Abbas Agraphicus: Thank you! The Brandubh 2 is probably the more used because of the balance. We already have fx. English and French: http://aagenielsen.dk/brandubh2_rules_en.pdf http://aagenielsen.dk/brandubh2_rules_fr.pdf
2020-11-22 09:26:50 Abbas Agraphicus: @Hagbard: I have done the translation. Where do I send it and which file format do you prefer? I sticked to the original as much as possible, to have an even interpretation in all languages. But I have a question: isn't the last part of rule 8 a bit difficult to understand? I mean the part that goes "...the player who had the choice...". Couldn't it be like "the player who started the repetition (scheme / pattern / ...) loses the game"? I was just curious.
2020-11-22 10:45:47 Abbas Agraphicus: Cause in italian it sounds very odd to me, and I think that if I didn't know the rule already, I wouldn't understand it. Maybe something like "if both players repeat the same move three times in a row, the player who started the repetition loses the game".
2020-11-22 14:40:37 Hagbard: You could just write, that the defenders (white) lose repetitions (ten years of archive show that they always do) pdf is a good format. Email address is at bottom of this page.
2020-11-25 13:58:49 Draganov: @Hagbard: I have a question about the game archive. Is it possible to find somewhere on the Internet an archive for the games that were played on the Fetlar Hnefatafl Panel. Did they keep records of these games or they are lost for ever. As a Historian, it would be interesting for me to see how the game is developing over the years.
2020-11-25 15:51:29 Hagbard: To my knowledge there's not an internet archive from the island Fetlar. However there is a video from their first World Championship 2008 with notation: https://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/456106/game-record-final-world-quickplay-hnefatafl-champi Tim Millar ("crust") was involved in the Fetlar events and won twice up there. Millar is the tradition bearer of the Fetlar game here, and especially the Fetlar games of "crust" against "Adam" stored in the archive here show how the game is played. To search all way back in time, please use: http://aagenielsen.dk/visallespil_soeg_nath.php
2020-11-25 16:46:49 Hagbard: - A small anecdote from Fetlar: It is but a small island, and the tafl guests had to bring their own tents and live on a camping site. The night before the tournament was strong wind, and Millar reported that all night sounded as if a swarm of pidgins flew around in the tent. - But as we know, Millar won the tournament anyway -
2020-11-25 20:35:14 Draganov: @Hagbard: Thank you for the link to the archive and the information about first Fetlar Championship.
2020-11-26 00:20:08 Abbas Agraphicus: @Hagbard: that is real Tafl lore! 😁
2020-12-03 09:26:06 xerxes: @Hagbard. Am enjoying the Advent Calendar. Couldn't work out which one of them was you yesterday Aage ;)
2020-12-03 09:37:31 Hagbard: @xerxes. Thank you!! The Julekalender is rebroadcasted now.
2020-12-04 08:28:25 mihkkal: VOTE HNEFATAFL! THE "Nidark" group on FB organizes a vote to determine the coolest archaelogical artifact from Trondheim. Now you can vote for the remains of a Medieval tafl set! Go to https://m.facebook.com/groups/642174312787130/permalink/1370520973285790/ You vote for tafl by using the "surprised" emoji on the post :-)
2020-12-04 11:29:15 Draganov: Wow the Saami Sáhkku tournament is really competitive. Many players have the same amount of points. It is nice that we can play this game here. Is there somewhere to see our separate Saami Sáhkku rating?
2020-12-04 16:40:54 Hagbard: Separate Saami Sáhkku ratings at the bottom of the page here: http://aagenielsen.dk/separate_ratings.php
2020-12-08 08:34:50 Hagbard: All games in Round 2 finished. Jötunheimr: Garun19 and Odinhimself both got 7 points. But Garun19 won both games against Odinhimself. Garun19 qualified for Round 3. Speaking as umpire: Bogd khan, Cacreal, Draganov and Garun19 together with Casshern qualified for Round 3. Round 3 starts Dec. 11th at 18 o'clock Danish time.
2020-12-09 12:29:23 mihkkal: The Trondheim Hnefatafl set is now in the semi finals of the NIDARK competition. https://m.facebook.com/groups/642174312787130/permalink/1374644836206737/
2020-12-11 17:00:44 Hagbard: May Odin give you knowledge on your path
2020-12-11 17:47:33 OdinHimself: @Hagbard: Lol, no, Odin is no more, so no knowledge for them! lol Good luck!
2020-12-25 15:11:31 Agmundr: God jul!
2020-12-27 11:24:33 mihkkal: God jul / Buorit juovllat!
2020-12-27 20:52:38 Draganov: @Hagbard: In my Tyr game against Jrton80, he surrounded me but the game continued. I thought it should be declared as a win for him or there is no surrounding rule in this variant?
2020-12-27 21:03:16 Hagbard: The Tyr games do not have the surrounding rule, just as the Berserk game does not. Because the Berserk game has jumping pieces, which can jump over the surrounding. But now that you mention it, the Simple Tyr should have the surrounding rule, since Simple Tyr does not have jumping pieces.
2020-12-27 21:18:23 MasterLuke: @Draganov: If I may interfere here: as I set up the Tyr-rules, I deliberately left out the surrounding rule. In the normal Tyr-game, this is obvious. But in Simple Tyr, you should actually try to kill the king. It's the harsh nature of the Tyr game; it's all in the spirit of keeping the game as simple as possible without extra rules. Thus there's no other way for black to win than killing the king. There's no other way for white to win then reach a border with his king. Therefore building forts doesn't count either. So I guess you guys should play on and provoke a mistake of your opponent to end the game.
2020-12-27 21:19:42 MasterLuke: Or you can agree on a draw, of course...
2020-12-27 21:27:21 Draganov: @MasterLuke: What about the repetition rule? Are there a way for black winning the game by forcing whites to repeat their moves?
2020-12-27 22:34:18 MasterLuke: @Draganov: See section 8 'Additional rules': like most other Tafl variants, repetition should not be allowed.
2020-12-30 20:10:39 Draganov: @Hagbard: Are we going to have Old Hnefatafl and Fetlar tournaments in 2021?
2020-12-30 20:29:58 Hagbard: Certainly. They're postponed now, not to disturb the Copenhagen Final.
2021-01-01 09:29:13 MasterLuke: Happy New Year! Especially to my opponents who kick my ass every time! My goal this year is to reach the 1400-points ranking :D:D:D
2021-01-01 09:47:55 OdinHimself: Happy New Year everyone! Let the the Norse gods be with us and help us to bring our beloved game even to the most distant places of the world! Victoryyyyy!!!
2021-01-12 15:02:42 Steiger: made by Dmitry Pashkov (Ethnic Board Games), not me)
2021-01-12 15:21:55 Hagbard: who is the photographer then?
2021-01-12 18:03:02 Steiger: I am
2021-01-13 12:39:27 mihkkal: When does registration end for the Cuhkka tournament?
2021-01-13 12:56:02 Hagbard: After 7 days. That is very early morning in 4 days.
2021-01-19 14:24:29 OdinHimself: Amazing!
2021-01-21 19:04:50 Hagbard: casshern won the Final!!!
2021-01-22 06:11:12 OdinHimself: Congratulations to casshern! He deserves the title! I've never seen a better player than him! Odin be praised!
2021-01-22 07:22:59 Draganov: Congratulations to Casshern for the devastating victory! It was an honour for me to play against the most dominating champion in the tafl game.
2021-01-22 17:04:14 Hagbard: Congratulations to Casshern for winning the Copenhagen Final!! I wrote in the forum some thoughts on the title intervals: http://aagenielsen.dk/hnefataflforum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&p=1515#p1515
2021-01-22 23:08:38 casshern: Thanks all!!! The final was tough as always, very competitive! Congratulations to everyone who made the finals of the Tablut and Copenhagen tournaments. And thanks to everyone else who participated. And for everyone else who plays here, Thank you all!! I love this community very much and I enjoy playing with you all.
2021-01-23 11:01:49 xerxes: Congratulations to Casshern - not only a great champion, but a gentleman too.
2021-01-23 18:33:38 Hnefihunter: Congrats Mario! With your victories, you have turned our depth of understanding of the strategy of Hnefatafl. When I started playing, I thought they were very simple tactical games)
2021-01-24 00:49:15 Bogd Khan: Congratulations, Mario for being world champion for third year in a roll with 8/8 score. Thank you for the beautiful games in the final, and for being such a fair player and a gentleman, too!
2021-02-05 14:00:01 MasterLuke: To inform you all: the game variants Tyr-1 and Tyr-2 are omitted from this website, they mainly served as test cases for the Tyr concept. The third and final version, formerly known as Tyr-3, with jumping King also allowed to jump over its own men, is now renamed 'TYR!' written in capitals and with exclamation mark. This is because of the name TYR, the Norse war god, was shouted out loud when vikings went to attack. The simplified version without jumping king, v-men and commanders, called Simple Tyr, remains. In fact, it's played more than the regular TYR! recently. Tournaments proved that TYR! works well on 15 x 15 boards (17 x 17 is fine too, but more testing is needed), whereas Simple Tyr works fine on 11 x 11 and 15 x 15 formats (Tournament Simple Tyr 13x13 ongoing). Hereby I encourage everyone to play these games more and more, for they are among the most balanced variants of Tafl.
2021-02-05 14:02:24 MasterLuke: ... and for the occasion I designed new pieces for Simple Tyr 11 x 11.
2021-02-12 14:44:16 Draganov: It was awesome that for a moment Cacreal, Garun19 and me were with the same raiting points- 1703 and with equal points in the tournament. It is amazing how equal in strength we are.
2021-02-13 13:13:31 Hagbard: Steiger created this video on Historical Hnefatafl 9x9 (Saami Tablut), the ultimate guide!! https://youtu.be/756INuMOWj8
2021-02-13 15:00:01 Steiger: @Hagbard, thank you, Aage!
2021-02-13 18:12:05 OdinHimself: Skal, brother!!!
2021-02-13 19:23:19 Steiger: @OdinHimself, \m/.
2021-02-14 14:11:28 Abbas Agraphicus: @Hagbard: I happen to have the disegn of some little ships that I think could suit well to sea battle. Can they be of some use? If so, let me know, and I can post them on the forum to discuss.
2021-02-15 00:48:10 casshern: @Steiger: The best Tablut video I have every seen! Bravo!! @All: I am going to start discussing strategies and trying to name moves Sorry in advance, but I am very technologically challenged. My goal is to be able to make videos like Steiger’s to post on youtube as well. But until I get over my ineptitude, I will be posting in the large forum. Please feel free to comment or ask me any questions. As far as naming moves, I want to use chess as a model. Probably naming openings and moves after countries or players. And use some terms from chess as well. But my knowledge here is also greatly lacking. I am very open to help and suggests, from players with a background in chess or other games and from players here who have been playing for a long time and have knowledge about the history of the game. Thanks in advance!
2021-02-15 05:33:04 Steiger: @casshern: I'm very glad that you like it, Mario!) Thank you!
2021-02-15 07:10:09 casshern: I didn’t understand a single word, lol. But, I could tell that you put a lot a effort into it. The moves and games you discussed, I could follow easy enough. The first 5-10 minutes looked like you went over the history of the game and it looked like you pulled from a lot of sources, at least from the photos. In the “forum for discussion” under “strategy,” I have started a “Tablut” discussion. I hope to continue what you have started in this video there.
2021-02-15 07:24:23 Steiger: The language barrier:( But we can handle it!
2021-02-15 08:30:48 Steiger: @Ded Fomich, дядя, ты где пропал? Ты нам нужен! "Незаметно присоединяйтесь, барон"(с) :)
2021-02-15 18:57:05 Hnefihunter: Great movie. I liked the history and review of tafl. The only small nuance: the voice is a little monotonous. As a result, I watched with a break.
2021-02-15 19:06:26 Hnefihunter: I often watch videos with subtitles if I don't know the language. On YouTube there is a function of translation.
2021-02-16 04:57:25 Steiger: @Hnefihunter, спасибо, Лёха! Над голосом будем работать.)
2021-02-17 17:46:25 Draganov: @Hagbard would it be possible to implement viewing history functionality on the Saami Sahkku game. It would be good if we can see the history of the games move by move or at least the last dice and the move of the opponent.
2021-02-17 18:14:10 Hagbard: Yes the Sahkku review doesn't work for now, sorry. I'll have a look at it when possible
2021-02-17 18:22:15 Bogd Khan: It would be great option if there is an option to see the last dice of the opponent.
2021-02-17 19:36:37 Hagbard: I'll have it in mind
2021-02-21 03:11:39 Agmundr: For us that like some Viking metal! \m/https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VwILN3gE1aw
2021-02-21 07:12:43 Steiger: @Agmundr: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LRi5Pw1U0U \m/.
2021-02-21 07:37:37 Steiger: @Jrton80: I don't like the name "guillotine" either. I think the "scaffold" sounds more authentic.
2021-02-21 08:26:22 OdinHimself: @Agmundr & Steiger: Don't forget the everlasting classic of Einherjer, brothers!!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0taOB_BSdPw&ab_channel=RobertoGonz%C3%A1lezCaballero
2021-02-21 13:00:15 Steiger: @OdinHimself: Odin, great warlord I greet you with hail!;-)
2021-02-21 22:25:15 ChaolAibhne: @Jrton80 "Vikings ... got their ass kicked which let in the Normans" – so you could say that the Vikings still won in a way, inasmuch as the Normans were Vikings who had raided and eventually settled in northern France (Norman = Norseman)
2021-02-22 13:57:30 Hagbard: Final #2: Bogd Khan
2021-02-22 16:51:41 OdinHimself: Congratulations to Bogdan for this excellent ranking!
2021-02-23 16:15:06 Draganov: Congratulations to Bogdan for the great battles and performance!
2021-02-25 11:03:03 Steiger: About Copenhagen hnefatafl in rissian. Enjoy!: https://youtu.be/vIDiuwVIAMc
2021-02-25 11:04:18 Steiger: *russian
2021-03-05 08:51:55 MasterLuke: A question to all the players who played TYR! and Simple Tyr before: The Berserk rule allows the king to make a final move to the edge and win the game, after one or more strikes. This is inspired by the original Berserk move in the 'Berserk Hnefatafl rules' (http://aagenielsen.dk/berserk_rules.php) where rule 6 states 'The king may finish a berserk run with a winning move to a corner square.' Of course, in TYR and Simple Tyr, edge escape applies instead of corner escape. Now I wonder, would it affect the already very good balance of the game if I changed this rule, i.e. NOT allowing that final move and stopping the Berserk move after the laste man taken? I really hesitate about this, because this 'hit-and-run' factor can be great fun and a thing to consider by black, but sometimes I think it's too easy for the white king. I'll leave the game as is, for now... But I'm curious what you guys think of it?
2021-03-05 16:57:35 Draganov: @MasterLuke, in my opinion the Simple Tyr variants are in favour of the blacks. Although I have won many Simple Tyr games with the whites, I don't think the variant is well balanced. I think most of my wins with the whites came after poor playing and inexperience of my opponents. Many players told me that winning with whites is really difficult in Simple Tyr, so making the king jump to the edge after Berserk moves would be good for the game and will make it more balanced.
2021-03-05 23:30:47 MasterLuke: @Draganov: thank you for your opinion, which I appreciate very much, for you are a high rated player. Indeed, the game should be played more by higher rated players against each other to get a better view of the real balance. The digits in the balance section don't say all... What's your experience with TYR, may I ask?
2021-03-06 11:34:15 paul7: @MasterLuke: My experience with Tyr is quite limited, so I don't feel confident to comment on its balance. I'd just say that I personally find the rule in question a fun one and I enjoy it. And I feel that if the defenders can lose the game in one turn by failing to see a long sequence of captures leading to the king being captured, probably so should the attackers. The feeling that you can always be just one turn away from defeat if you're not paying enough attention is a good thing for me.
2021-03-06 16:38:14 MasterLuke: @Paul7: you've got a point there. Your and Draganovs answer convince me keep the Berserk 'hit-and-run' rule. I experienced it myself recently, it's too much fun to let go.
2021-03-07 22:33:34 ChaolAibhne: If we ever hold a championship tournament for Hex, might I propose that the title awarded is The Hexpert 😉
2021-03-08 09:15:47 xerxes: @ChaolAibhne: That is a bewitching idea.
2021-03-10 07:00:25 OdinHimself: I wish all of you a great pagan day! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoIygfym36Q&ab_channel=TavernadoNibelungo
2021-03-19 00:14:57 MasterLuke: For all those interested: the upcoming Tyr 15x15 tournament is a sort of in-between version of 'TYR!' (capitals and exclamation mark) and 'Simple Tyr'. 'Tyr 15x15' features the jumping commanders but lacks the V-men and jumping king. It's like 'Simple Tyr' plus commanders.
2021-03-19 10:45:18 Hagbard: The Hnefatafl World Championship tournament 2020 finished with the result of the Final: #1 Casshern, #2 Bogd khan, #3 Cacreal, #4 Garun19, #5 Draganov. Congratulations to Mario Aluizo ("casshern"), who won both the Tablut and the Copenhagen part! Thank you to Adam Bartley who was the umpire of the Tablut, and a big thank you to the 34 players who took part in the tournament! I have put an evaluation in the forum: http://aagenielsen.dk/hnefataflforum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&p=1589#p1589
2021-03-19 12:12:06 OdinHimself: Congratulations to the top 3 winners, Garun and Draganov and especially for the strong Bulgarian presentation!
2021-03-19 18:24:52 Draganov: Thank you for the good tournament! I am more than happy to reach the final and to finish on the 5th place. I faced great players during the tournament and participated in many intensive games. Congratulations to all of the participants for the great battles and wish you all the best in the next world tournament.
2021-03-21 16:22:20 ChaolAibhne: @MasterLuke I myself had wondered about a version of Tyr that included commanders but not variegated men. It will be interesting to see how that turns out in play.
2021-03-21 16:38:07 MasterLuke: @ChaolAibhne: Now is your chance to try it out:) Maybe this will be the 'definitive' version of Tyr. I think it will turn out fine, because TYR! and Simple Tyr are well balanced too. Later on, we can try other formats (9x9, 11x11, 13x13?)
2021-03-21 17:46:18 ChaolAibhne: @MasterLuke I've just joined the Sea Battle tournament. Once I've completed some of my matches in that, I may well try out the Tyr 15 tournament.
2021-03-21 18:06:45 ChaolAibhne: @MasterLuke If in terms of balance there isn't much in it between this version of Tyr and previous ones then some other considerations may favour making this the definitive version: it's easier to make physical sets if there aren't variegated men; the fewer different pieces there are, the more it's like Tafl than chess; and this version retains the traditional Tafl symmetry (OK, that may have no real benefit, but it just feels right)
2021-03-21 19:02:44 MasterLuke: @ChaolAibhne: wel defined, we're on the same level here... in IRL variants, the V-men would be a bit of a problem (extra replacement pieces would be required) and indeed, I wanted to go back to a 'purified' version. On the other hand, Hagbard may decide to keep both the more 'sophisticated' TYR! and basic 'Simple Tyr' on this site.
2021-03-21 21:11:19 ChaolAibhne: @MasterLuke With regards to making physical sets, variegated men could be catered for by making them disks with a different colour on each side. But that somewhat limits the artistic creativity one can bring to designing such a set, if the variegated men are not to look out of place with the other pieces.
2021-03-21 21:13:30 ChaolAibhne: @MasterLuke So for that and other reasons I would favour leaving out variegated men altogether
2021-03-21 21:28:29 ChaolAibhne: @MasterLuke I think there is scope to have both a standard 'sophisticated' version of Tyr and a simple version, but just modifying what the standard version is. So the simple version would have just berserk, while the standard version would add commanders (and possibly a jumping king, depending on what the test tournament suggests in terms of balance).
2021-03-22 00:00:14 MasterLuke: @ChaoblAibhne you're quite right. A physical version would have 3 different pieces: a regular man, a Commander (seated on a horse) and a king. Maybe - as an option of choice - a king on a horse, too (jumping king). No V-men. I already made various designs (shown earlier in the gallery) and I am still working on other types, as I'm constantly refining my designs. But I think I'm almost there, will soon post them in the gallery.
2021-03-22 11:31:01 Abbas Agraphicus: @Paul7: that ballinderry replica is really cool! Do the pieces have any historical reference?
2021-03-22 14:08:24 paul7: @Abbas Agraphicus: Thanks. Speaking of the pieces: I'm not aware of any reference actually. As far as I can tell, it's unknown what exactly original Ballinderry pieces looked like, but I'd guess that some kind of spherical pieces made of bone and with pegs in their bases would be more probable. And they would be more practical at that, as those wooden pegs are a bit too long to fit securely and tend to fall out from time to time. I kind of like their "primitive/barbaric" appearance though.
2021-03-22 14:10:07 ChaolAibhne: Some of my friends here may not have been sure if it was OK to ask what had happened to me. It was a heart attack. Despite trying to look after myself, family history caught up with me. Fortunately it could be treated with stents, which means a much quicker recovery than opening the chest. I'm now recuperating at home - reading, crafting, light exercise, and of course Tafl!
2021-03-22 14:26:58 Draganov: @ChaolAibhne, I wish you quick recovery, brother.
2021-03-22 16:43:04 Hagbard: @ChaolAibhne. The six timeouted games, they were only few moves long, are removed and the rating is adjusted.
2021-03-22 17:10:59 ChaolAibhne: @Hagbard That's kind of you. Now I don't need to make my rating a recovery goal too! 😉
2021-03-22 17:11:42 ChaolAibhne: Thanks @Draganov
2021-03-30 19:57:45 ChaolAibhne: The current Fetlar tournament brings up something that I have thought about before. My understanding is that part of the motivation for the Copenhagen rules was to address the issue of draws in the Fetlar rules, and in particular the possibility of a player forcing an early draw. However Copenhagen goes beyond merely addressing draws with its innovations of the shield wall and the exit fort. Some may feel that the interest that these innovations bring to the game is worth taking the game's balance slightly further in White's favour, 1.45 compared to Fetlar's 1.42. But perhaps a more serious consideration is that they take the game quite a distance from any historical original. Now I'm of the view that the documentary and archaeological evidence we have points to edge escape being the norm on boards bigger than Brandubh; but if corner escape was in fact played on the bigger boards then it seems likely that the game would be closer to Fetlar than to Copenhagen. With that in mind, has thought been given to a minimal revision of Fetlar that would merely address the issue of draws? And perhaps also the game balance – maybe a different layout?
2021-03-30 23:50:00 Abbas Agraphicus: @ChaolAibhne: Your reflection is interesting (and coincidentally comes together with a question in the forum about historical references for corners in big boards). I think (correct me if I'm wrong)that in Copenhagen Hnefatafl the focus is not towards historical accuracy, but making a new modern variant that combines fun elements with a reasonable balance. As to Fetlar, basically the issue are draw forts: so prohibiting that would suffice to solve the problem. The fact is, being Fetlar a contemporary variant, would it be fair to intervene and change it if you are not the creator?
2021-03-31 12:59:11 ChaolAibhne: @Abbas Agraphicus Perhaps I confused things by mentioning Copenhagen, which I agree didn't have historicality as a goal. But I understood that Fetlar was attempting to reconstruct the historical game, so my question was about trying to get closer to that. As you say, the issue of early draws is easily fixed. But while the game balance isn't too bad, it still seems to me to be on the high side, if our default assumption is that the historical game would have been closer to 1. So my real question is, has anyone attempted to address these and improve on Fetlar in the quest to reconstruct a historical corner-escape, preferably without introducing innovations unknown to the historical documentation for Tablut and Tawlbwrdd? The attempt might provide useful evidence in discussions about the historicality of corner escape on bigger boards.
2021-03-31 15:02:53 Abbas Agraphicus: @ChaolAibhne: I think the answer to that might be under our nose: the "Old Hnefatafl" variant. Corner escape, 4-side king capture, only difference is that the king is captured by 2 near the corners. The balance seems much more even, slightly in favour of black, from what I read here in the site.
2021-03-31 15:05:37 Abbas Agraphicus: Honestly I don't think a 2-sides king capture could work in a corner escape game
2021-03-31 15:06:32 Abbas Agraphicus: Except obviously the 7x7 games
2021-03-31 16:00:38 Draganov: @Abbas Agraphicus, The balance for Old Hnefatafl is tricky. I think this variant favours the blacks too much. There is not a single rule that favours the whites in Old Henfatafl but everything works against them.
2021-03-31 16:42:35 Abbas Agraphicus: @Draganov: I see your point; honestly I'm no expert in Old Hnefatafl cause I think I played it just 1 or 2 times, but, if the focus of the discussion is to have a "somehow" historical corner-variant, and a better balance than Fetlar and Copenhagen, I guess that would be more or less the way. If we assume that the forbidden squares should be hostile also to the king, then we would have the king captured by 2 + corner, to be coherent with the 4-sides capture. Maybe there could be some different initial setup to be combined to the Fetlar rules, but judging by the hundreds of possibilities tested here in the past, I doubt that these things haven't been taken into consideration already.
2021-03-31 17:16:36 Draganov: In my opinion the real balance of Copenhagen is much better than the balance of Fetlar or Old Hnefatafl. When weaker players are playing Copenhagen the whites have advantage but playing on higher rating level, the blacks are with better chances to win the game.
2021-04-01 16:50:27 ChaolAibhne: @Draganov Have you seen the list of measured game balances under the Site Overview menu? It lists for each variant the balance for all players and for strong players. (I don't know what definition it uses for 'strong', but I know that elsewhere on the site a threshold of 1600 has been used.) For Copenhagen it does not have much difference between all players and strong players.
2021-04-01 17:10:03 ChaolAibhne: @Abbas Agraphicus I had indeed overlooked Old Hnefatafl. For some reason I had remembered its balance as being worse than it is. (But it's interesting, @Draganov, that you feel it to be less balanced while playing it. I have encountered that with some variants, where it feels harder playing one side than the other, even though the results confirm it as well balanced.) Old Hnefatafl would seem to be the ideal candidate for a potential historical corner-escape variant. Only one thing makes me hesitate: the hostile edge of the board. Conceptually that is going a bit further than hostile squares. And the fact that the edge is hostile only to the king feels like too much of a special case to me.
2021-04-01 17:25:04 ChaolAibhne: While we are comparing Fetlar and Old Hnefatafl, is the marked difference in balance between the two really due just to the fact that the edge is hostile to the king in Old Hnefatafl? Is this feature used often enough to cancel the advantage that White has in Fetlar? (Note that I am treating the fact that the king can be captured with two pieces against a corner square as just a consequence of the hostile-edge rule. That is, you can regard corner squares as hostile to the king in Fetlar too, but ineffectually so as you can't complete the surrounding-by-four.)
2021-04-01 17:41:48 Abbas Agraphicus: @ChaolAibhne: To be honest I didn't know that the entire edge is hostile to the king...I thought only the corners. Now I get what Draganov meant. I wonder how it is so balanced then... Maybe a compromise would be making the edge friendly and only the corners hostile: Fetlar + hostile corners for the king?
2021-04-01 18:17:01 Abbas Agraphicus: I mean, Fetlar without draw forts, plus hostile corners to the king
2021-04-05 18:05:27 cacreal: I think we need a cumulative timing for all player moves per game. Maybe up to 7 days total per player for the tournaments. This way all games would be completed in 2 weeks. This way if you join a tournament early you have the entire 7 day timeframe for your games. If you join on the last day the tournament is open you have 1 day for your moves and the opponent the full seven days. Some players are waiting a full day or two between moves and it’s not very enjoyable for others in a tournament that are waiting. Reading this forum and seeing a 10 second or 1 minute move suggestion seems very ironic. Great site, great players and most of the time enjoyable.
2021-04-06 19:19:40 Draganov: @Cacreal, I can't agree with you about your suggestion for players who joined a tournament on the last day to have only 1 day for their moves. In my opinion the better solution would be just to reduce the amount of the open invitation to 3 days. So, every player who wants to participate in a tournament should joins in 3 days after the tournament started. If someone joins on the 7th day, he or she will know most of the results since the tournament has been almost finished. So, this player can create a strategy in which games to play riskier and in which to play more solidly or for a draw in the case of Fetlar. Joining on the 3rd day will not give you such an advantage. However, joining on the last 7th day has also some disadvantages. For example, most of the players have already finished their games and will be able to focus on playing against you. So, in my opinion the advantages and disadvantages on joining the tournament on the last 7th day are equal.
2021-04-06 22:53:27 KayKyber: Is there a Discord server for this website, or for the Hnefatafl community overall?
2021-04-07 09:10:22 Steiger: @KayKyber: https://discord.gg/bVfMyRRNBQ
2021-04-09 10:29:25 Abbas Agraphicus: @Hagbard: what do you think of the proposal to have n° days (say a week) to join a tournament, and then every player starts the same day?
2021-04-09 11:13:35 Hagbard: The solution now used emphasizes the flexibility for the players: within the one week window they can join and begin the games immediately. A one week window gives room for many tournaments, four per month. And starting the games immediately lets the tournaments finish as quickly as possible. In a tournament you might have many games, in the recent Fetlar fx. 16 games, therefore the tournament timing is x2. The recent World tournament Final was a lesson in a shortcoming of the x2 timing, in that this Final lasted for 3 months. Therefore the timing has been modified so that x2 and x10 games cannot be this extremely long in time (of course x10 games still have extraordinarily much time). The time used for a x2 game is limited by: At start a player has a time buffer of 4 days and 25 hours free time per move, and his game can never timeout before 25 hours. When the sum of his thinking time exceeds 4 days (normally happens after 8 days, 2 players x 4 days), then his free time per move gradually falls from 25 hours to 13 hours. New: When the sum of his thinking time exceeds 8 days (normally happens after 16 days, 2 players x 8 days) and he has no more time buffer, then the time before his game can timeout gradually falls from 25 hours to 13 hours.
2021-04-09 13:06:07 Abbas Agraphicus: I see. Yeah, maybe there would be less tournaments x month, but I still think starting all toghether would be fairer, as sometimes people study the games and join at the last minute. Aso you would know how many matches you have left and make your "calculations" and stuff
2021-04-12 20:30:36 Jrton80: @Draganov IMNSHO unless a draw fort has been made so that the King cannot be captured, it is not a draw, just lazy thinking.
2021-04-12 21:13:12 Hagbard: Just a small historical comment: Before 2012 we had only Fetlar here (and two Skalk variants which do not work), and I believe half the games were draw by eternal check and some by draw fort. 2012 Adam, Tim and I discussed a new rules set modified from Fetlar (which became "Copenhagen"), and Adam Bartley was the one who insisted on getting rid of all repetitions now that we were in the process. It's informing to see that the ban on repetitions now comes so natural to the players, that it is greatly missed when it's not there -
2021-04-16 09:49:17 Draganov: I am more than happy that I managed to win the Fetlar tournament and the Fetlar winner is from Bulgaria for the fourth year in a row. Probably, we the Bulgarian players should think about organizing a Fetlar tournament in live in Bulgaria since it seems that we have traditions in this variant. However, in my opinion, there is only one true Fetlar champion - Crust (and for me the greatest tafl champion of all time) and I would like to test my sword against him. @Hagbard, do you know what is Crust's status? Is he well? Is it possible to organize a match between me and him?
2021-04-16 18:58:39 Hagbard: Crust is well. Your nearest Fetlar competitors were the stars many years ago but are for the time being occupied by other things. Looks like the Fetlar stars of today are Bogd Khan and yourself!
2021-04-17 18:48:43 Steiger: Six years of taflin' in five minutes. Cheers, tafloholics! https://youtu.be/K5lUJYQf4R0
2021-04-18 07:36:06 OdinHimself: @Steiger: Great video, great background song, great tafl warrior! This is what holds fast our tafl world and keeps pushing forward its development! Hail!
2021-04-18 07:53:30 Steiger: @OdinHimself: thanx, brother!\m/.
2021-04-20 09:23:17 Hagbard: @Steiger. A thousand thanks for the two videos!! Brandubh/Ard Ri and tafl sets, they are both added to this page. And you included a greeting from Denmark in the tafl video ...
2021-04-20 17:23:01 Steiger: @Hagbard, it's a big honour for me! Thank you very much!
2021-05-05 23:52:06 Hagbard: @Steiger: Thank you very much for the Sea Battle Tafl video!!! Added to this page, it's full of pearls. You found the original David Brown article! I heard of it but this is the first time I have a chance to see it.
2021-05-06 12:20:06 Steiger: @Hagbard: да здравствует ХНЕФАТАФЛ!!!
2021-05-15 00:44:09 MasterLuke: @Jrton80 and @Holidayinnes: looking at the 'Play against humans' sections, I see you guys are waiting so long for someone accepting the invitation to play the Tyr and Simple Tyr variants. So why don't you play against each other? As ever, I would happily take the challenge (mostly to get my ass kicked), but I'd like to see how two high-rated players would compete.
2021-05-17 13:12:17 Bogd Khan: Happy holiday to Adam, AreVidar, Mihkkal, Agmundr, Jules and Gungnir! Skål🍻
2021-05-17 14:03:30 mihkkal: Thank you / Takk / Giitu :-)
2021-05-19 22:47:41 Abbas Agraphicus: @Hagbard: Is the new repetition rule (white always losing) active? If so, I can correct the pdf with the rules for Brandubh2 in Italian. Let me know.
2021-05-19 23:21:35 MasterLuke: The rules of Tyr are revised, since the V-men and jumping king are omitted. See the rules section.
2021-05-20 08:01:25 Hagbard: @ChaolAibhne. The two functions are not included. @Abbas Agraphicus. It is active (Exception: in Fetlar the repetition is a draw).
2021-05-20 10:20:37 Abbas Agraphicus: Good morning everyone. I wanted to tell you that I made a very simple blog, where I will publish stuff about Hnefatafl. There are three articles so far: Two about my interpretations of historical boards (such as the infamous Trondheim one) and another one where I talk about Tyr with an interview with Luk Martens (Masterluke) himself! If anyone is interested this is the link https://abbasagraphicus.wordpress.com/ Thanks
2021-05-20 11:57:49 Steiger: @Abbas Agraphicus: ;-) https://youtu.be/pE7WEVQDyIY
2021-05-20 12:23:49 Abbas Agraphicus: @Steiger: exactly ☺
2021-05-20 17:23:38 paul7: @Abbas Agraphicus: Great articles! Thanks for sharing!
2021-05-20 19:22:19 Abbas Agraphicus: @Paul7: Thank you!
2021-05-20 20:58:13 Jrton80: @MasterLuke I rarely bother to look at the games offered. I click home, check the tournaments to see if it is one I want to join (I do not really know why since I seem to suck at them in general) then put up new games - a really low level of a thought process there
2021-05-25 21:43:22 MasterLuke: @ ChaolAibhne: What a pity I can't see your link, it's restricted for UK habitants only, it seems... Regarding the lewis chess men, I'm quite surprised. What about the bishops, horses and the queen? Maybe there was the possibility to play both chess or Tafl. When played tafl, the players would use the normal pawns and a king. Maybe there was a game board (now lost) with a chess / tafl combination per side?
2021-05-26 12:46:14 ChaolAibhne: @MasterLuke: That's a pity. If you are interested then the episode can also be bought on Google Play: https://play.google.com/store/tv/show?id=FOCgNZIGS_0OhiFyEVogdg&cdid=tvseason-IgdOV92OCFY.P&gdid=tvepisode-8pbu80WXrKQ.P From what I recall of what I've read elsewhere, I believe the theory is that the set started off for tafl and then got extended as chess became popular.
2021-05-26 15:18:49 Abbas Agraphicus: @ChaolAibhne: I read something on that theory, but TBH, besides the fact that the rooks are represented by foot soldiers, and that the bishop figure is quite early, I don't find any reason to believe they were Hnefatafl pieces, neither from a ludic nor from an aesthetic point of view...There's some cloudy stuff about their origin and finding, but other than that I don't see why they shouldn't be chess pieces. The fact they discovered they were all white (and the red was added afterwards) is not a relevant thing, as in the sources Hnefatafl is always depicted as played between two forces colored differently.
2021-05-26 18:31:12 Draganov: @Hagbard, what do you think about organizing a small testing elimination format tournament? I wrote in the big forum about this idea. I have already had a match of 10 games against Alex Hnefatafl and the match lasted only a week. In my opinion this format will work very well and will be very attractive. We can have a memorable final match of 10 games between the two strongest players in the tournament. I will be glad if you open such a test tournament (it would be best if it is the Copenhagen variant). NB: let's try with 4 days time buffer or even 2 days will be enough like our standard games.
2021-05-26 18:33:53 Draganov: Depending on the number of players who will join the tournament we can have Eighth-finals, Quarterfinals or Semifinals as the first round.
2021-05-26 18:34:23 Draganov: You can read more about the format here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-elimination_tournament
2021-05-26 18:46:00 Draganov: The matches could consist of 4, 6, 8 or 10 games, starting at the same time. We need to decide the number of the games. Probably we can start with 4 as it would be a test tournament. In case of a tie the player who has won the shortest game will continue for the next round.
2021-05-26 18:51:37 Draganov: We also can have mixed variant tournament in the future. It will stimulate us to learn how to play different tafl variants. For example we could have a match between two players who play 2 games in Copenhagen, 2 games of Tablut, 2 games of Welsh Tawwbroad and 2 games of Brandubh or Tyr.
2021-05-31 21:38:59 Draganov: @Hagbard, what do you think about having 4 games between oponents in the testing tournaments? In my opinion the length of the tournament will be the same because all of the games will start at the same time.
2021-05-31 21:42:14 Hagbard: I think it would be hard work for the players, self being one of them
2021-05-31 22:15:33 Draganov: Ok, let's try with 2 games. However, what will be the additional criteria? And what will happened if both games finished with draws?
2021-05-31 22:39:45 Hagbard: Additional: who wins with shortest game length. The shortest game length tells which of the players had the best play in his losing game
2021-05-31 22:41:33 Hagbard: - And both draws (it is Fetlar), I suppose both must proceed to next round
2021-05-31 22:51:01 Draganov: What about additional second criteria for taken pieces? We can combine the number of taken pieces from a player in both games. The player who has taken more pieces will advance to the next round. It will not make a player playing for taking pieces when he/she has a winning position since the first and more valuable criteria is winning by less moves. However, in Fetlar when the whites make a draw fort, they will need to protect other of their pieces from being taken. It will make the Fetlar game little bit more competitive even when someone secures a draw fort. I don't think it will be good if both players continue. The tie should be resolved after 2 games whatever the result is.
2021-05-31 23:11:05 Hagbard: Double-Elimination is an interesting idea. A draw is a half win / half loss, so wouldn't two draws be the same as a loss? And 4 draws = 2 losses and you're out -
2021-05-31 23:17:32 Hagbard: A win with the longest game length means that your opponent gave the strongest resistance and was the hardest to beat, he played the losing color best. Number of captured pieces is different, in my opinion. An expert player might leave enemy pieces uncaptured as part of a smart tactics.
2021-06-01 14:13:10 paul7: The choice of the second criteria also affects the playing style. If it's the game length, it could prevent early surrenders, so that the losing player will try to delay the defeat as long as possible. But if it's the number of taken pieces, it could force the winning player to go for unnecessary captures when the game is already decided. I think that the former is much better.
2021-06-01 15:02:11 Draganov: In my opinion there is a need of many additional criterias when there are only 2 games between players in a round. The first and most valuable criteria should be the length of the win. When both players won 1 game out of 2, the player who won a game within less moves would be the winner. However, if both players won their victorius games with the same number of moves, then we need to apply the second criteria which would be the number of taken pieces. The player who has taken more pieces will advance to the next round. Finally, when both players won 1 game each, and they won their games within the equal number of moves and equal pieces are taken by both players, a new set of two games should be played by both players to determine the winner.
2021-06-01 17:30:11 paul7: @Draganov: Sorry, my bad, I missed your point about the number of captured pieces being the _second_ secondary (tertiary?) criterion :) I guess it's fine this way. But I personally think that the ties on two criteria would be rare, and on three criteria almost nonexistent.
2021-06-01 18:15:44 Draganov: @paul7: Yes, I also think that ties on two criteria would be extremelly rare and ties on three criteria would be almost impossible. However, just in case we need to have some rules that will help us to resolve such a weird situation.
2021-06-01 18:18:52 Draganov: That's why I propose these three criteria: 1) points (the player who has more points is the winner) 2) shortest win (the player who won his game in less moves is the winner) 3) number of taken pieces (the player who took more pieces is the winner) - this criteria would be valuable if we play Fetlar and have 2 draws between the players.
2021-06-01 20:05:18 L716: Evaluation by a number of taken pieces would force players to play more aggressive for no particular reason and sometimes even in contrary to what they think is fun or/and efficient. Evaluation by the time would force players to never use the "resign" button and play a game both players don't not want to play anymore. If an evaluation criterion affects the way people play the game, it's not a criterion, it's a rule. And rules shall not be added unless they make a game better. And don't see any positive effects here, to be honest, only negatives ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
2021-06-01 20:07:04 L716: *I don't see
2021-06-02 10:18:14 Draganov: @Hagbard, in my calculation the distribution should be different. I think we need to use the separate rating. I am really weak at playing Welsh Tawlbwrdd but I have a high overall rating. So, for each tournament we need to use the right rating for each variant. My calculation is based on the principle that the highest rating ranked player should face the lowest one. So my distribution is like that: Fetlar: Draganov (1690) - Rosk (1333) Hagbard (1627)- Floki (1473) Welsh Tawlbwrdd: ChaolAibhne (1712) Bye Jilles (1574) - Paul7 (1389) L716 (1572) - Hagbard (1463) Abbas agraphicus (1518) - Draganov (1470) Floki (1500) - Rosk (1500)
2021-06-02 10:49:59 Hagbard: Such a distribution is certainly efficient, and has the advantage that top players do not leave early. A positive quality of the group format last year, however, was that all the way the opponents were equals. It is more fun to play against equals than to be quickly beaten by much stronger opponents, in my opinion.
2021-06-02 12:10:25 Draganov: @Hagbard, yes the group distribution will allow us to make equals doubles. That's why I proposed a mixed tournament in the big forum in the same manner as in the football, voleyball or other sports where the first round is a group and next rounds are elimination rounds with the strongest players/teams. In such a format the number 1 ranked player will face a group winner player or at least the second from a group and such a match would be competitive enough. The world champion can join on the 1/2 finals for example or little bit earler. We also can have some preliminary rounds for players who has never played before (or they are well-known players with new nicknames). In the 2020 world championship, there are two players who had not played a single game before the beginning of the tournament - Scuppa and Fastov. Fastov was really strong and manage to qualify for the second round. However, it was suspisous that he was a well-known player with a new nickname. It is little bit frustarting to face a completely new nickname as an opponent. In my opinion such players should play with each other a preliminary qualification round and best of them to join the tournament.
2021-06-02 17:45:12 Draganov: @Hagbard, what do you think about a mixed format in which the first two rounds are groups like the previous year tournament and the third round is an elimination 1/2 finals with the 3 best players coming from the groups (probably we need to have 3 groups in the second round with only the winners advancing to the next round) and the world champion. However, playing just 2 games in the semi-finals will not be good to determine the better player. I think semi-finals with at least 4 games between the players and a final match with 8 games between the players would work best.
2021-06-02 17:47:04 Draganov: By te way guys, I am just expressing my thoughts and trying to propose some improvements on the tournament format. I will appreciate your thoughts on the topic.
2021-06-03 00:22:29 Abbas Agraphicus: About the additional criteria: I think that the number of moves criteria is a good one and it is quite representative of the player who won more efficiently. The "not-resigning" problem could mostly be present in corner-escape variants, but a lot of the Copenhagen matches (for example) last like 80/150 moves already, so I don't think it would make much difference. The captures criteria may indeed be a bit of an influence on how people play, but at the end of the day the only other way is repeating the matches. As to the multiple games, I am not a big fan. Easpecially in normal "everyday" tournaments I would leave it to the final.
2021-06-04 16:10:31 mihkkal: When approximately will the Daabloe tournament be?
2021-06-04 18:25:28 Hagbard: June 6th
2021-06-06 21:27:38 Hagbard: https://tonsbergmiddelalderfestival.no/
2021-06-13 15:56:57 Abbas Agraphicus: @Hagbard: Wasn't the Tawlbwrdd Tournament supposed to be a direct elinination? Why do I have matches vs 2 opponents ongoing?
2021-06-13 15:59:52 Hagbard: It's double elimination. Round 2 does not depend on the outcome of round 1 and can run simultaneusly.
2021-06-13 16:11:57 Abbas Agraphicus: Mm, not sure I understand, but ok
2021-06-15 22:51:10 Hagbard: Note. Say two players both win as white, one fx. with 30 moves and the other with 32 moves. The two players played very equal indeed, can the first result be said to be different from the other? In this tournament test I would want to let a tie count as a half loss for both players, and let's see how that works out.
2021-06-17 21:43:10 Jrton80: @Hagbard, since I missed registering for the tournament somehow while on vacation, I would put that down as a tie. Even if one white win was 30 moves and the other over 100, it would still be a tie in my mind.
2021-06-17 22:29:13 Hagbard: @Jrton80. Glad to hear it. Would you like to join one or both of the tournaments from round 2? It is a test of tournament format, and this would test if it is possible to join late. It could be with a handicap of one lost match, since that is the status of most players in round 2.
2021-06-17 23:30:00 MasterLuke: Hello everybody, another idea came up in my mind. Please read all about it here: http://aagenielsen.dk/hnefataflforum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=138 and let me know what you think...
2021-06-18 21:59:59 Jrton80: @hagbard, well, for a sure - I'll join the Historical Hnefatafl 11x11 - I will not play fetler anymore with that sloppy draw rule in there
2021-06-18 22:01:11 Jrton80: er....well, for a test, sure...
2021-06-20 22:37:26 Abbas Agraphicus: Sorry guys, but...am I the only one who's not sure of how the elimination tournament is working? Shouldn't it be a series of direct elimination matches where the winner goes on and the loser is eliminated? 😮
2021-06-20 22:56:01 Hagbard: It is Double Elimination, it takes two losses to be eliminated. The system here is that first you play against your nearest neighbour to both sides ("Battle of Brothers"), then you play against the next nearest neighbour to both sides ("Battle of Family"). Who survives those two rounds with less than two losses goes to Round 3.
2021-06-22 22:14:23 Draganov: @Hagbard, I am going to face Holidayinnes on the final of the Fetlar tournament. He lost one match against Floki. However, I haven't lost a single match yet. Does it mean that if Holidayinnes wants to win this tournament he needs to beat me in two matches?
2021-06-22 22:33:58 Draganov: I mean he needs to beat me twice in two matches since it is a Double Elimination and in order to be eliminated, I have to lose two matches.
2021-06-22 22:43:10 Hagbard: Yes
2021-06-22 22:48:29 Hagbard: If you are both ok with it, perhaps we could try your idea and start two matches at once in Round 3 ?
2021-06-22 23:31:36 Draganov: Yes, playing 4 games at once against Holidayinnes would be great. In that way we could test a match of 4 games.
2021-06-29 09:35:02 Hagbard: Plan: From July 18th another tourn. test like this one with the variants Simple Tyr 11x11 and Sea Battle 13x13 or Simple Tafl 11x11. From Aug. 1st registering to World Championship Tournament 2021, tourn. starting Sep. 15th and using the tested tourn. format and the variants Saami Tablut and Copenhagen. http://aagenielsen.dk/hnefataflforum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&p=1631#p1631
2021-07-02 09:45:32 Steiger: Still waiting for the worthy! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pE7WEVQDyIY
2021-07-04 20:37:02 Draganov: @Hagbard, why Holidayinnes and I need to play a third match against each other. He won the first match of the final and I am about to win the second match. Since he has already lost one match against Floki, he will be eliminated when I win the second match.
2021-07-04 20:50:55 Hagbard: An error was found in the way of counting. A game draw 0.5-0.5 is different from a game win 1-0. If a player wins a match with a win and a draw (0.75-0.25) it's different from a win and a win (1-0). Counted this way, you and Holidayinnes right now both have a loss of 1.25. The last (fourth) game can at most change this value by 0.5, so both players will survive. Probably after fourth game you will still have loss 1.25 and Holidayinnes loss 1.75. So a third match is necessary, and sufficient, because both players cannot survive a third match.
2021-07-05 12:36:38 Hagbard: If the counting error had been found earlier, then Draganov, Holidayinnes and Floki would all have moved on to the next round. This would probably have been the last round for Floki, but being a dangerous opponent he would have pulled some feathers out of Draganov and Holidayinnes, leaving them more wounded so that the Final would at most have taken two matches instead of three.
2021-07-05 21:02:30 floki: @Hagbard, thx for granting me as a dangerous opponent and yes I would have torn Draganov and Holidayinnes 🤪🤪! To be honest I didn’t really understand this double-elimination test but I have enjoyed it very much. Cheers
2021-07-06 23:50:31 paul7: While I also enjoyed this test tournament quite a lot, I don't understand it very well. Just my 2 cents. My understanding of the Swiss system is that it's designed to minimize the number of games to determine a clear winner while having no elimination. On the other hand, the single or double elimination tournaments have a decisive and spectacular final, but they require seeding to ensure that the best players don't meet as long as possible. I think the mixing of the two kind of misses the purpose of both. A lot of great players were eliminated in the early stages of Tawlbwrdd tournament, for example, as they had to play with their peers.
2021-07-07 09:22:04 Hagbard: True, many good players were eliminated in Round 2. I'll explain the idea of the format. There are 89 players on the rating list at the moment, 37 very recently active. This format handles any number of players, a large number as easily as a small number. We would want all the active players to join the tournament. Players not in top of the rating list might ask themselves What's the point without a high chance of winning it all. So how to make it worthwhile for everybody to join? No matter where a player is on the rating list, this format treats everybody the same. Everybody plays against his four nearest equals in two rounds. Theoretically this eliminates the whole list except the two top players, who then go for Round 3 the Final. But only in theory, in real some players might be underestimated, others might have good luck or bad luck, and so more will survive the two rounds. And the Final will perhaps be the round 4. Another thing is time. Everything on the internet takes a long time, therefore to save time the players meet more than one opponent simultaneously.
2021-07-07 10:09:21 paul7: @Hagbard: I agree wholeheartedly that it's very important to encourage more people to join the tournament while not making it outrageously long. I personally like round robin tournament. Being a rather new player, it allows me to explore the game better. But sure, if 40 (or even 20!) people join the tournament, it would last forever. What I mean is doens't the plain Swiss system without elimination solve both these problems neatly?
2021-07-07 14:58:58 Draganov: What about my proposal of combination between Swiss and Single-Elimination formats. I proposed the first round to be conducted on the Swiss system determining the three best players who will proceed to the Second round (Semi-finals) and will be joined by the world champion. Then in the Second round the 4 best players will play semi-finals with Single-Elimination format. The winners of the two matches will play in the Third Round (the Final) a longer match and will determine the world champion.
2021-07-07 17:36:04 Hagbard: I lean towards: Round 1: Everybody against 4 equals. Round 2: A handful of players survived and play each against 2 opponents. Round 3: Probably 2 players left, Final. Timing x2 all the way.
2021-07-12 12:12:16 Hagbard: Suggestion: 3 lines of tournament for the World Championship Sep. 15th: Copenhagen, Tablut and Sahkku.
2021-07-13 12:55:24 Hagbard: The tournament format test, Tawlbwrdd, finished, winner jilles. Paul7, thank you for giving it a go, it could have happened in a real battle too: A warrior has great luck and watches the giants fall around him, and suddenly he is alone on the field with the top giant!
2021-07-18 10:14:54 Hagbard: Double-Elimination test started for Simple Tyr. The Sea Battle has only 4 players, so it's a usual Round Robin and you can still join.
2021-07-20 10:44:03 Draganov: @Hagbard, why in the Simple Tyr test tournament we are playing on 4 days time buffer? Are we going to test double-elimination format with 4 days time buffer as well as we tested it with 2 days time buffer in the previous tournaments?
2021-07-20 10:57:23 Hagbard: Yes. This is the way the World Champ. tourn. Sep. 15th could be done.
2021-07-21 05:49:33 Steiger: I propose to consider July 21 as the holiday of Hnefatafl.
2021-07-22 16:26:16 Draganov: @hagbard, is the rule for jumping king and escaping to the edge after berserk move in Simple Tyr 11x11 valid? I mean is it possible for the king to kill 1-2 black vikings with a berserk move and after that to escape to the edge at once?
2021-07-22 16:30:42 Hagbard: It is possible. It's symmetry: black can run berserk and end up capturing the king, and likewise white can run berserk and end up winning on the edge (hat tip: Adam Bartley)
2021-07-22 16:40:34 Hagbard: - But! No jumping king
2021-07-24 11:10:40 Masterluke: @Dragonov (and others): also, din’t forget commanders can jump over own man too. See the Tyr-rules: http://aagenielsen.dk/tyr_rules.pdf
2021-07-28 08:00:34 MasterLuke: @Draganov and @Hagbard: Now I'm VERY curious how the Simple Tyr tournament will turn out. I'm the only low-ranked guy here. So far, excluding myself, it's 10 black wins against 8 white wins. Count me in, and it will be 11/9 (knowing I'm about to lose against Paul7).
2021-07-28 09:32:45 Hagbard: @Steiger. July 21 someone's birthday?
2021-07-28 09:41:40 Hagbard: As for World Championship, registering starting Aug. 1, Copenhagen and Tablut winners would be WTF World Champions as usual. But I guess the Sahkku winner is just WTF Sahkku Master 2021, because supposedly in Sápmi they'll have big Sahkku tournaments of their own and find a Sahkku World Champion.
2021-07-28 14:55:28 paul7: @Hagbard: I believe Steiger means that the famous description of Tablut in the July 21 entry of the Linnaeus' diary.
2021-07-28 17:50:34 Steiger: @paul7: так точно!
2021-07-28 19:13:55 Hagbard: oh yes, very important document
2021-07-29 09:50:20 paul7: @Hagbard: May I ask if you plan to hold national tournaments this year, like in 2020?
2021-07-29 10:06:27 Hagbard: @paul7. Good question! I had not planned it this year, but if there's a wish for it, we can certainly have it. I assume that one would be for the area Garthariki like last year, and that Round Robin would be the format again. I'm in doubt about what a suitable starting date could be, so as not to disturb the World Tourn. Sep 15th
2021-07-29 12:36:59 Hagbard: As for a WTF Sahkku tourn., by the calculation method used on this site, the luck factor (dice) is 60%, I guess it leaves 40% to skills. So World Champ. is a strong word for a dice game, but if you win it all, you must've done something right and is a Master.
2021-07-29 13:02:54 mihkkal: A post about the Tablut rules that Linneaus wrote down on July 21, 1732: What can we know about where he was when he wrote them down, and where the people who taught it to him lived? Link: http://aagenielsen.dk/hnefataflforum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6&start=50#p1637
2021-07-29 15:53:32 Abbas Agraphicus: @mihkkal: Very interesting, thanks
2021-07-29 21:38:47 Steiger: https://youtu.be/hFjwW8Ranrg
2021-07-29 23:37:40 Hagbard: wow, didn't know that one
2021-07-30 05:30:26 Hagbard: this video was posted on Youtube today two years ago, another world without corona https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_2uB2VGJQY
2021-07-30 06:44:28 Steiger: Oh yeah! A magical festival! In spite of everything, this year it also took place, but I was not there.
2021-07-30 08:28:24 Hagbard: @mihkkal. Thank you for the clarification of the diary geographics! And thanks also for the correct rules links, they're added.
2021-07-30 08:45:09 Hagbard: @Steiger. From this year: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-I2lgAz3xc
2021-08-01 08:08:14 Hagbard: A couple of players complain about the Tablut. The weak king World Tourn. could also use the Tawlbwrdd 11x11 instead this year.
2021-08-03 17:14:23 Draganov: @Hagbard, why World Tablut Championship is replaced by the Welsh Tawlbwrdd?
2021-08-03 17:36:45 Hagbard: The Tablut 9x9 was used last year. The Tawlbwrdd is the same just on 11x11 to make a change.
2021-08-10 17:12:24 Draganov: @Hagbard what is Historical Hnefatafl 9x9 (Saami Tablut-w) and what is the difference between this variant and Saami Tablut?
2021-08-10 22:38:46 Hagbard: Tablut, just white moves first
2021-08-13 12:53:21 Hagbard: https://vikingsaga.no/
2021-08-23 08:00:30 Steiger: @Fenric7: учи русский ;-) https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgwQwKg7Bb4iD7In9XHzx1A
2021-08-24 22:30:53 Bogd Khan: Happy Independence Day Steiger! Слава Україні!
2021-08-28 12:44:31 Hagbard: The aim of this site is to as well as possible center around the roots of historical board games in Scandinavia/Europe. And so it covers now tafls and old Saami games. And as well slight variations from this center, such as three types of tafl kings, three types which can also be said to now have historical roots since they are described in hundred year old game books; sometimes due to misunderstandings and mistranslations, but they are there. And the Berserk and Tyr games which are variations merging rules from very closely related historical games. Real names: those known are listed on the Tafl Wall of Fame. I several times asked for the real name of World Champion 2014, but he wants anonymity.
2021-08-29 14:24:13 Hagbard: We had a year groups and one winner to proceed from each group. It's rather frustrating that often coincidence determines who proceeds then. Better the years when two proceeded from each group, a single mishap wouldn't then prevent a good player from proceeding. The Single Elimination scheme described is efficient, half the players are eliminated in each round with certainty. However in S.E. coincidences and mishaps rule again - this year we'll try the Double Elimination method, which again forgives good players for small mishaps.
2021-08-30 08:36:13 Steiger: Salute from Fomich, kumpels!: https://youtu.be/0Y5I0ujS-eY
2021-08-30 09:02:58 paul7: In my humble opinion as long as the number of participants is not too large the round robin tournaments are far superior to the single elimination ones. First of all they allow a new player to explore the variant while playing the same game against different competitors in a limited amount of time. In the single elimination system the new player will likely be eliminated immediately and lose the chance to grow as a player. Second, the single elimination requires a careful seeding to ensure that the top players don't meet each other too early, and I'm afraid that the ratings are a bit too volatile for that. When playing the round robin or the Swiss system, the best players are very likely to end up with the most points. There's a reason why, say, chess tournaments are either round robin or Swiss after all.
2021-08-30 09:04:55 paul7: Oh, and both sides are most certainly not the same either in chess or in go.
2021-08-30 09:16:22 paul7: Regarding number of moves comparison. I fail to understand how this could be seen as a good thing. Any secondary criteria affect the way the game is played. Anyone who played a single elimination tournament in the app surely knows that people do abuse it, for example make useless moves trying to prolong the game which is obviously lost anyway to get a higher number of turns. This does affect the game and I'm certain that it does so in an adverse way. Sure, you have to have a secondary criteria when you're running a single elimination tournament, but the round robin or Swiss system don't need such kludges at all.
2021-08-30 09:37:33 Draganov: I proposed a mixed tournament system -> 1 round should be Round-robin or Swiss and the second round should be a semi-final with Single Elimination matches. The problem with the previous world tournament formats was that the tournaments had too many group round-robin rounds. In the last year we have 3 groups of round-robin format. Adding long time control to 3 rounds of round-robin made the tournament to last 6 months. In my opinion, when we have short standard tournament time control (4 days time buffer) and only 1 round-robin round (it should be the first round) and then we have just 2 rounds until the end of the tournament (a semi-final and a final match) then the tournament will last only 3 months or even less. If we have 30 players we can divide them into 3 groups and the winners of each group will qualify for the semi-final where the world champion will join them. In that scenario we are going to have 4 best players in the semi-final matches. The rest of the players will enjoy playing against at least 6-7-8-10 players depending on the number of the participants in the first round. If we have a group of 8 players in the first round, then even the worse player will have 14 games played before leaving the tournament. In my opinion we need a big final match between the two best players. It will be exciting and will be beneficial for the game if we have the opportunity to see 4, 6, 8 or 10 games between two of the highest rating players.
2021-09-07 20:07:34 Hagbard: 536 there was a fimbulwinter three years non-stop, the weak sun couldn't cast a shadow. It's believed that this real event is the background for the Norse myth of the fimbulwinter and ragnarok. And that people at that time sacrificed all they had for the sun to return; it worked since the sun did return after three years!
2021-09-08 14:33:39 Draganov: @Hagbard, in the upcoming world championship the format will be double elimination. However, I wonder what is the benefit to have high rating in this format? For example, if I have rating like 1800, I will face very strong opponents in the round 1 (battle of brothers). In that case, I will face OdinHimself and SebastianMucke. But if I lose several games on purpose and deteriorate my rating before the start of the tournament, I will face much easier opponents in the first round. Of course, I will play fairly and will keep my rating high until the beginning of the tournament and will face the greatest warriors in the first round but I would like to know if there is a benefit to have high rating for double elimination format or it is better to join the tournament and attack the others from behind (from a low rated position).
2021-09-08 15:28:15 Hagbard: If you join the Copenhagen then at the moment you'd meet casshern, OdinHimself, SebastianMucke and bingoboy in the first round. The chance to move on to round 2 is perhaps 50%. Were your rating artificially lower, you'd naturally have a higher chance of moving on. However, in my opinion, it is near mathematically certain that the strongest player of the lot will come out the winner in the end anyway, no matter which detours others could take, because in the end they'll have to beat the strongest player, too.
2021-09-08 15:43:21 Draganov: OK, I understand but this format is going to make the second and third place much more reachable for low-rated players. It is almost the same if we have 2 groups. The first one filled with the highest rated players and the second one filled with the lowest rated players. In the end probably the winner of each group will face each other. In this scenario we could expect a final battle between a 1800+ player versus a 1400 player. Moreover, if a strong player deteriorate his/her rating before the tournament, he/she will be placed in the lower stream and will have a strong chance to reach the final rounds without any injures while the survivor of the massacre between the strongest players will reach the final in bloody condition. Then the player who advanced from the low rated position will need to win probably once against the top rated player in order to eliminate him.
2021-09-08 16:00:54 Hagbard: Very interesting view! The fights from round 2 and onwards will probably be a bit messy, and an ordered list of winners #1 #2 #3 etc. cannot be made the simple way it was in the previous years. In the format test 2 which just finished, however, it was the two strongest players who met for the final duel, which Jilles won.
2021-09-08 16:51:05 Draganov: Indeed, the last test tournament put the two best players in the final battle and also the previous test tournaments (Fetlar final Draganov vs Holidayinnes and Welsh Tawlbwrdd final Jilles vs Paul7). However, I am not sure if the next tournament will place the two best players. It is more likely that this will happen because Casshern, Odin and other high rated players are very strong. From the low rated players I expect Holidayinnes or SqAree to make a good tournament but my concerns are more or less for the future tournaments. Imagine that Odin or someone else who stands a real chance of beating the best player (Casshern) deteriorates his rating or even joined the tournament with a new username and in this case he will have very low rating. It is completely possible situation that in the final we could have a battle between Casshern (1.5 points lost) against the purposely low-rated Cheater (0 points lost). Then the cheater will need to win only 1 game out of 4 in order to secure another tie-break or if the cheater is equal to Casshern he will be the champion after equal result 2:2 on the final.
2021-09-08 16:58:16 Hagbard: Yeah that is thought-provoking ...
2021-09-08 17:46:20 Draganov: Additionally, I also think that this year we are going to face the problem with newly created users again. Last year we had Fastov who played very well and reached the second round. After the tournament, he didn't play any game. I think he was an old-known player with a new username. This year we have two players who don't have even a single finished game (helle and red-ron). We also have two players who have played only 2 games (sakar and mathgamain) and they didn't mention their locations. We practically don't know anything about them. The chance they are old-known players with new usernames is high. We also have bingoboy, who is a very good player but he joined just before the start of the tournament. I don't have any problem with these players and I will not complain if someone of them eliminates me. However, it is not good that some good players are making new usernames just for the tournament. Furthermore, I think there is a high risk someone of the newly created usernames not to play a game and to timeout all of his games. They probably heard about the site and the tournament and registered out of enthusiasm but will never visit the site again. It will not be good to have inactive players in the tournament. In my opinion we need a criteria of playing at least 10 games or even 10 games in the last year in order to join the tournament.
2021-09-08 17:56:29 Hagbard: You're quite right concerning the problems of unknown users. I checked the new ones you mention, and they're ok. Always the risk of a new name ending up a no-show. Saxon, sakar, mathgamain, helle and Cato will be placed last in the tournaments and thus cannot affect established players by not showing up.
2021-09-09 15:24:22 bingoboy: Are there special points awarded for the most messages ? draganov seems like he could be the world champion
2021-09-09 16:29:44 Draganov: Do you think it is fair to participate in the tournament with a new nickname? If someone joined the tournament with a new nickname, it will give him a huge advantage. Rest of the players will not be able to study his games before the start of the tournament and will not be able to prepare specifically for this player. For example, I like to study the opening moves of my opponents and their style of play and make my strategy based on this. If I don't know who I am playing with, I will not be able to make my custom strategy against this player. However, he knows who I am and he will be able to prepare for my moves and game play.
2021-09-10 08:31:54 casshern: @Draganov: Perhaps you are correct. It would not be “fair” if your opponent could study your tactics, moves, style, etc. But as the highest ranked player I can tell you that I don’t care. I encourage everyone to study my games in the archives. And then study other high ranked players. This is what I do. Am I then at a disadvantage to someone who registers as another alias? Perhaps. But I say, BRING IT ON. Is this not the gist of this game? White is outnumbered by many foes on all sides. Should white quit then before the battle has even been fought?? NO, of course not. You recently said that Tablut is unbalanced and favors black. I have proven that statement incorrect. I recently played as many top players as I could. And I swept all games as both black and white, except against Alex Hnefatafl. In which case we both won as white. All this talk about cheating and tournament format can be traced back to Edmond-Dantes. But who was Edmond-Dantes? Perhaps he is still active on this site under a different alias? Alex sounds a lot like the reincarnation of Edmond-Dantes. Maybe bingoboy or draganov? Or another name? It matters not to me. It is up to me to find a path to victory. Same for my opponent. This is not chess where half the games end in a draw. Perhaps all chess games should end in a draw. But hnefatafl is not like chess in this regard. Draws are very rare. And I view any attempt to force a draw as cowardice. I think most tafl variants favor one side or another. And this is the essence of the game. To push on, despite the odds. Find a way to overcome! Never give up!!!
2021-09-10 08:50:24 casshern: @Draganov: You do bring up some great points. There are many ways for a player or players to cheat. I think Aage does the best that he can. But, we are such a small community. We must trust each other. And hope that everyone plays honestly. I can tell you and everyone here that I have only ever played as Casshern. And I do not have a bot that gives me moves to play, as I have been accused of in the past. In fact, I don’t know of a bot that is better than even an average player. This may be news to you and other newer players here. So now you know. In fact, I have know of plans to conspire against me. To which I say again, BRING IT ON. I thank you for worrying about me because of the new format. But, personally, I don’t care. To me, It is me against the world. If it were up to me, I would play every player in the tournament! That’s how the tournaments used to be, but it was too many games for some people. I wouldn’t mind. Conspire, work together, make multiple accounts, I don’t care, personally. As long as black moves first and white follows, it doesn’t matter to me. However, you are absolutely right. It would be unfair to me and especially other players if someone were to cheat as you have said. So I say to you and everyone else, we are all brothers here. Our community is too small for such evil acts. Please, be honest. Do the best that you can. Have fun!!! Don’t cheat!!! In any of the ways that draganov has pointed out or in any other way!
2021-09-10 09:12:18 casshern: @Hagbard: I have been satisfied with every tournament since I started playing here. Even my first year when Plantagenet beat me. Things just worked out perfectly. We split out games and our games against Edmond-Dantes. Then, he swept me in the next round. But, I am curious about Alex’s idea to use single elimination. At least with a top 4, semis and final. I don’t think this is a good idea. The 2019 championship, I think, is the perfect example of why we shouldn’t adopt the single elimination. The final that year was between myself, Death, Bogd Khan, and Khan Asparukh. I split with Bogd Khan and swept the other two. Bogd Khan split all games. And Death swept Khan Asparukh. I had 5 points, Bogd Khan and Death tied with 3 points and Khan Asparukh 1 point. Naturally, since Bogd Khan had a better strength of record with the win against me, he got second place. But, I am curious about these proposed “tiebreakers.” I would like to play a little devil’s advocate. Who would have been given the victory is each of Bogd Khan’s split games? Here are the tiebreaker rules I would follow. If black won both games, I think the player who lost less pieces as black would be deemed victor. For white, least amount of moves. And in case of the guillotine or another similar position, I would count the victory from when the player established the position.
2021-09-10 09:17:26 casshern: @Hagbard: Sorry, I am too lazy and don’t have a lot of time to do the research myself. If you want, I can look it up myself though. Im just curious to know who would have moved on in each of Bogd Khan’s split games? I would assume that the pairing for the semi’s would have been Casshern vs Khan Asparukh (1v4) and Death vs Bogd Khan (2v3).
2021-09-10 09:21:44 casshern: @Bingoboy: Im not ready to relinquish any crown yet. I might even add the “most messages.” Lol. 😂😝🤪😭
2021-09-10 09:44:36 casshern: @Draganov: One last thing. I find that it is usually the cheaters who accuse everyone else of cheating. I hope that you are an honest player. And I do appreciate that you are pointing out all the flaws in the system. Forgive me for taking things personally, but this all just seems like a ploy to dethrone me. Again, I personally don’t care. You have beaten me, as have many players here. But I know that my win percentage is very lopsided. I think Plantagenet is the only player who I have roughly split most of our games. No one else comes close. I am not trying to demean anyone, but this is the truth. I don’t know if the thinking here is to cheat to beat me? Perhaps you or others think this is the only way? To which I say, ridiculous. I think everyone should be honest and have integrity and honor. I am not a machine who wins all my games. This goes for everyone, also. Get better, don’t cheat. Im sure we all enjoy playing this game. But like me with chess, you will only get better if you play more, learn from your mistakes, study past games, and above all try to look ahead. Try to see your opponent moves before he makes them. So you can block them. It is as simple as that. That’s all that I do with hnefatafl. I mention chess because those are all the things that I don’t do in chess and that’s why I am a below average chess player.
2021-09-10 10:38:27 Hagbard: I had a look at the Final 2019 and Bogd Khan's three tied matches. Bogd Khan/Casshern: Both won as black, Casshern with 36 moves, Bogd Khan with 66 moves. Casshern lost 1 piece as black, Bogd Khan lost 3 pieces as black. --- Bogd Khan/Khan Asparukh: Both won as black, Khan Asparukh with 20 moves, Bogd Khan with 80 moves Khan Asparukh lost 0 pieces as black, Bogh Khan lost 6 pieces as black. --- Bogd Khan/Death: Both won as black, Death with 95 moves, Bogd Khan with 113 moves. Death lost 0 moves as black, Bogd Khan lost 4 pieces as black. ------ So in all cases the criterium of shortest game length and a criterium of fewest lost pieces give the same result. (Perhaps the two phenomena are connected? When black loses more pieces, it becomes more difficult and takes more moves to win?)
2021-09-10 15:20:25 casshern: That’s very interesting. Perhaps they are connected. So, the less pieces black losses, the faster black is able to stop the king. That would make sense. The more the game turns into a blood bath, the harder it becomes for black to win and the more likely it becomes for white to force a draw. So in every match up both sides won as black, and Bogd Khan lost more pieces and took longer so secure a winning position. This is definitely proof why it is not good to rely on such tiebreakers. Bogd Khan would have lost any semifinal match up against Casshern, Death, or Khan Asparukh. I also noticed that bogd khan timed out some of his games. Another factor to consider. All in all, I think the way the tournaments have been run, has lead us to the best possible outcome in determining a champion and ranking of players. It could take a very long time to find a champion, if players were to keep splitting games. Luckily, it has not happened this way so far. Players have been able to determine a winner based on the games they play, not having to rely on the tiebreakers. I say, just keep playing games until one player is able to win on both sides. We will see how this year’s tournament will play out. Things worked out naturally between Jilles and myself in the test tournament.
2021-09-11 03:35:50 Fenric7: Great, I can say I will be competing in a World Championship. I look forward to the opportunity to play people who are closer to my beginner level. All those low rated players, it's not too late to enter. I'd hate to lose all my games. Interesting discussion on various event matters. My results should show that I'm a real person. But for the record...Name: Murray Cramp. Age: 52. Religion: Reject bad ideas. Political affiliation: The be thankful for your mortality, party.
2021-09-11 03:39:26 Fenric7: I think I am the only person from south of the equator in this game. True?
2021-09-11 08:34:56 MasterLuke: @Fenric7: don't worry, I am a 'beginner' for almost 2 years by now :). I just registered for the Copenhagen championship, so we'll meet very soon, I guess.
2021-09-11 09:12:31 Fenric7: Ah yes. I shall have a look at your games.
2021-09-11 12:34:08 Bogd Khan: @casshern I also don't think the this is a good idea. It's not important how you win. With 16 or 116 moves. If you beat me in 16 moves and I beat you in 116 it doesn't make you a better player than me... something else makes you better :D.... the fact you win all other games against me
2021-09-11 19:00:59 xerxes: @Fenric7: Just think, wherever you finish in the Tournament you will be Southern Hemisphere champion.
2021-09-12 02:25:58 Fenric7: Yes, I thought of that. Man... Champion of half the 🌍. That will set on my virtual mantelpiece, alongside my New Zealand Tiddlywinks Champion Trophy.
2021-09-12 10:04:54 casshern: @Bogd Khan: The one win was when it mattered the most. Im sure you would have more victories if we played more. I was surprised to see that we have only played a hand full of games. That is partially my fault. I haven’t been as active as of late. But hopefully we can play more often in the future. Also, I noticed that you are only registered for Sáhkku. Don’t forget to register for Copenhagen!!! I would hate to see the runner up from the last two years not register. I have been getting rusty from lack of playing. So, this could be your year! And I wouldn’t mind playing Tawlbwrdd against you either, if you can handle the game load.
2021-09-13 18:17:34 Draganov: @Casshern, I understand your point of view and it is quite reasonable since you are the GOAT of tafl (greatest of all time). I think noone here can come even close to beat you in the Copenhagen variant at the moment. However, my goal is not to advocate a new format in which we are going to have more chances to defeat you but to make some positive changes and increase the level of intense and action. Playing for 6 months like in the previous championship was exhausting and in my opinion not entertaining. We need a shorter format with more intensive battles and not a tournament in which half of the games are pointless. In the elimination format each game has a huge value since it could be the last for a player or at least a game in which the player is badly hurt. As I have said, I understand your point of view that you don't care about the person behind a single nickname but this is because you are very good at playing tafl. By the way, it would be funny if you play a match against the World (or at least the rest of the players here) like Kasparov did it in 1999 and he won the game. However, my point is to keep the game as fair as possible and the fact that Bingoboy deregistered from the tournament is clear enough to show us that there was something wrong with him. I am sure that he is back with his real username and everything could be fair this time.
2021-09-14 01:00:53 Jrton80: @hagbard, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PksfdopFbvk is really a Danish folk song? That sounded to be like Blue grass straight from the Tenseness valley without the banjo
2021-09-14 07:33:54 Hagbard: It is. From the nortwestern part. All along the west coast (North Sea) fishing in the sea has been the most important occupation since the earliest times, and this has brought them in always close contact with England, Scotland, Ireland. Even the dialect in the whole area has a peculiar strong influence from English also since the earliest times. The dialect sure is Danish, but very many Danes don't understand a word of it ...
2021-09-14 07:41:53 Hagbard: Sorry, I see that you meant the first one, Marken Er Mejet. Yes a traditional old harvest folk song. But these artists, the American grandchild and the elderly gentleman, give the melody their own blue grass style.
2021-09-14 11:54:07 floki: @Hagbard Thx for this cheer up video, puts me in great spirit before entering the battlefield. Good luck everyone for the tournaments !
2021-09-14 17:05:00 Jrton80: @Hagbard, Talking about tie breakers - what is up with the 4 way tie in Skalk Hnefatafl 9x9? could we use that as an example and get an order there both ways? And yes, I too and being lazy and not doing the research but I can later and at a glance it does seem consistence.
2021-09-14 17:50:49 Jrton80: @Casshern said "Am I then at a disadvantage to someone who registers as another alias? Perhaps. But I say, BRING IT ON. " Of course you would say that, you cocky git, but at the same time I have never had reason to question your integrity. O'BTW, I have studied your games, when I had time, but it never fails that I have forgotten things by the time I would need to use them which is why I will never be GM here but I like playing all the same. As a General note: I have always seen discussions like these as someone trying to gain an angle that they can then exploit. When the math - which face it people is really dead simple when talking results in a game - gets too conditional or complicated - without a solid statically backed reason - that I cannot understand it at a glance but instead I find myself studying it for a meaning, someone must be hiding something, but I have often been told that I am an cynical asshole, mostly by The Woman with whom I live, so I figure she should know. And the whole adding a half hour clock to the world tournament thing would knock me out way too fast - I really do spend most of my time IRL.
2021-09-15 00:58:37 Hagbard: May Loki give you laughter as you go
2021-09-15 13:07:37 Bogd Khan: @Hagbard I think Mario is right that the best and the fastest tournament system would be a classical championship system (Like premier League in football) Everyone plays against all other participants, If there are equal scores than there should be play off. But in a tournament with 30 players it's almost impossible. The 3 round system is slowing the game. I think a single game can't continue more then a two mounts ( so the tournaments will end much faster (2mounts, not 6). The system that you're using this year is wrong. Just because the weaker players will have advantage in the final against the better rated players. It's just not fair to have advantage this way...The right system is like in tennis tournaments:best players with weaker opponents and meet the best in the end of the tournaments. The US open final this year was a perfect example of my opinion. Player with best ranking met the second plyer in the end of the tournament (Making perfect final) In your tournament first player meets second in the first round...there is no sense. In tennis every player is trying to have more points in the ranking before big tournament because he will have more chances to meet best players later in the tournament. Now Alex is loosing rating to play against weaker opponents...no sense again.
2021-09-15 13:09:21 Bogd Khan: @casshern This year I don't have time for playing in such a long tournament so I'll participate only in the Sahkku tournament. This game is much faster than Hnefatafl ;)
2021-09-15 14:17:49 Draganov: I do think my proposal is the best and it is good to be tested. It is very simple and exciting. Just split the players into 3 groups. The winner of each group continues to the second round where they will meet the world champion. The second round is a semi-final with single-elimination matches. The pairs are based on the rating (or the points that each winner won in the first round). The world champion will play against the weakest of the first round winners based on rating or points from the first round. The other two winners from the group phase will also play against each other. Then we have a final match between the semifinal winners. However, in order this format to work well, we need semifinals and final matches of at least 4 games between players or even 6 games in a match. All of this games could start in the same time. It is as simple as that.
2021-09-15 14:19:32 Draganov: If we have a matches of 4 or 6 games (perfectly 10 games -> 5 with whites and 5 with blacks) the chance of an equal result will be less. So we will hardly ever need second criteria such as game length or pieces taken.
2021-09-19 22:26:48 Draganov: The positive part of this tournament format is that I as a high rated player have already faced the best players (Casshern and OdinHimself) and can test my playing skills. If the tournament format was like previous years, I would not be sure that I would have managed to defeat all other awesome players and reach these two great warriors. Now, I can also see the benefit of being highly rated. If you are number 1 or 2 in the list, you will have less games. For example Casshern as number 1 has only two opponents and OdinHimself as N2 has three. The other players are playing against 4 opponents at once.
2021-09-19 22:34:07 Draganov: @Hagbard, can I suggest you to make a honourable mention of 'best game of the tournament' or something like this in the same way as there is some recognition for man of the match, goalscorer of the tournament or something similar in the other sports? After the end of the tournament, you or the umpires can pick some games and we can vote for the best one. After that this beautiful game could be commented by the winner who created it or any other good player.
2021-09-19 22:35:42 Draganov: It will be beneficial for the new players to learn the tactical tricks of the game.
2021-09-19 22:38:56 Hagbard: Interesting idea!!
2021-09-19 23:31:44 Fenric7: Draganov's ideas are good. I would call it the 'Tournament Brilliancy'. There is value in studying all the games of the top three or four players. But as in Chess, studying the games of lower rated players can be helpful to less strong players. It's easier to understand the strategy of lower rated games. But the beauty of high rated games is both entertaining and educational. My idea of 'Best Game' for last year's tournament would be Cacreal vs Casshern, 2019 herjan vs Casshern, 2018 Casshern vs Sqaree, 2017 Casshern vs Odinhimself. My favourite game from the pre-Casshern era is from 2014, Crust vs Scachus. Study games of Casshern, Odinhimself and I like Plantagenet games too. Also, study White Fortress wins. Examples, 2017 Casshern vs Odinhimself, 2018 Casshern vs Sqaree, 2019 Ytreza vs Sqaree, 2020 Adam vs Garun19. Just some thoughts from a beginner.
2021-09-20 09:44:44 casshern: @Fenric7: Fantastic list of games, thank you!! I think it would help to list the date of the games from the archive as well. So players know exactly what games to look for: Herjan/Casshern (2019-7-23) - a very long game, but very high level from both sides Exit Fort (Fortress) Cacreal/Casshern (2021-3-19) Casshern/Herjan (2019-4-21) Casshern/Sqaree (2018-11-13) Casshern/Odinhimself (2017-10-25) Shieldwall (corner escape) Casshern/Khan Asparukh (2018-11-13) Edmond-Dantes/Casshern (2017-10-25) I didn’t look up all the games you mentioned. And I added a couple of games. Please help me fill in the rest of the list, in this format, thanks!
2021-09-20 10:38:48 casshern: @Draganov: This is my long overdue response to your last post to me. I do not consider myself to be the GOAT of Tafl. For me personally, I have never played against Crust, Schachus, or Nath. At least, Nath timed out all his games with me. I don’t consider these as wins. And I would like to play more games with Plantagenet before I could confidently say that I am better than him. To me, he beat me fair and square in 2017 and I have not had the opportunity to take revenge or fail again since. I consider myself behind Plantagenet or at the most an even/equal play with him. Now to more serious matters. As I said, all this talk of tournament format and cheating is old to me. Edmond-Dantes was the first to push for changes, at least from the time that I started playing here. He was also very rude and disrespectful to people. He had good points, but no one wants to listen to someone who constantly insults everyone they talk to. In these two ways you and Alex remind me of Edmond-Dantes. Alex is very rude and insulting and you (or both of you) are pushing to “improve” the tournament format and credibility. It is a desirable goal, to improve the tournaments and grow the game. But, as I told him, the world chose to abandon tafl. People just aren’t interested. We here are a community who share one thing in common, we all love the game of tafl. But we have only a minute fraction of the numbers of players who play other games like chess. Many people don’t even give tafl a chance because they can’t play “live” like you can in chess. Many of us are in different time zones. To try and schedule a tournament with “live” games is very difficult. As I suggested before, the best way to do it would be to have the players agree on a set time that worked best for them. But even to play a set of games in a 2 hour period each player would only have 30 minutes per side per game. Unless, you ran both games simultaneously. In which case it would be an hour per side per player. I think these a
2021-09-20 10:42:42 casshern: Continued text: I think these are reasonable time controls, but it would still take about 2 hours. I think it would be hard for most people to find two hours to commit to playing. As for how the tournament takes a long time to complete, 6 months. I don’t think it’s an issue of time control or tournament format. Some players just play very slowly. Like only 1 move per day. If you try to speed them up by forcing them to play 2 or more moves per day, Im sure they will time out their games. Then the champion would probably just be the person who has enough time to constantly play.
2021-09-20 11:01:58 casshern: @Draganov: As you point out, we can’t totally be sure who we are playing against. Anyone can create multiple usernames. As you also pointed out, why did bingoboy deregister from the tournament? Who was Edmond-Dantes? Is he still active here under a different username(s)? I guess what I am trying to say now is that I don’t care anymore. I have held a grudge against Edmond-Dantes, but I think it is time for me to let it go. Like him, you, Alex, and probably everyone here, my hope is for tafl to be revived into a game with so many players that anyone could play a live game at anytime. That just seems so far off to me that I cannot see the light at the end of the tunnel. I think Aage, Lucho (Odinhimself), Steiger, and so many more have done so much to try to get us to that point. What I am saying is that I am willing to even listen to people like Alex, if they have valuable and constructive ideas to achieve that goal. But you can let him know from me, if its not already obvious to him, that no one will listen to him if he continues to be like Edmond-Dantes and constantly insults people.
2021-09-20 12:03:55 Fenric7: Mostly agree completely with the 'best games'. My list concurs closely. 2020 Cacreal/Casshern (2020-12-11) 131 moves king Captured. 2019 herjan/casshern (2019-07-23) 192 moves. 2018 Casshern/Sqaree (2018-11-13) 60 moves. Exit Fortress. 2017 casshern/Odinhimself (2017-10-25) 52 moves. Exit Fortress. 2016 Adam/Herjan (2016-10-01) 76 moves. 2015 No one stood out to me. 2014 Crust/Scachus (2014-10-10) 142 moves. Great Black game. That's enough from me.
2021-09-20 13:18:53 Steiger: @Fenric7: How about: 2017 Casshern/Plantagenet (2017-10-25) 50 moves. Black won; and 2015 Adam/Crust (2015-10-15) 33 moves. White won?
2021-09-20 13:49:24 Fenric7: All Adam/Crust games of 2015 have merit I suppose. All Casshern/Plantagenet games are worth a look but my personal favourite is Plantagent/Casshern 2017-11-26. 55 moves.
2021-09-20 13:56:06 Fenric7: There is no guarantee that my knowledge of these expert games will translate into good results for me. Maybe, maybe not.
2021-09-20 17:40:28 sqAree: It's cool to see that one of my games is on the list, but that game was extremely painful for me, it felt more like I got completely massacred. :D
2021-09-20 18:41:31 MasterLuke: Those guys Saxon, Gungnir and Cato register for the championship, they make one or two moves, and then let the games run out of time... I don't get it... Why register in the first place? There's absolutely no honour in winning this way :(
2021-09-20 19:39:05 Draganov: @MasterLuke, that's why I suggested adding the condition of having at least 10 finished game if someone wants to join the world championship.
2021-09-20 20:25:32 Hagbard: Yes I appreciate that principle, that would've saved us troubles with the tournament tables. However being World Championship it is also important that the tournament is an open event where all people can join, including people we do not happen to know. Sometimes new names from reenactment clubs or board game clubs find their way here, as they should and they're welcome.
2021-09-20 20:29:39 Hagbard: - of course, if it was written that new names had to play just 10 games before the tournament starts, that's not a big requirement, and only the no-shows would not do that ...
2021-09-20 21:23:33 Draganov: It even could be a requirement for playing 5 games if 10 is too much. I think 5 games would also be enough to see if a player is going to continue playing or he is just exploring a new game and is not interested in it anymore.
2021-09-20 23:18:03 casshern: I think a minimum game requirement will help with no shows. But perhaps as a compromise, if a new player registers for the tournament with no game history, can he/she just post in the forum here that he/she intends to play? I think that would be a show of good faith that the player intends to play, at least. Ultimately, it is impossible to stop player no shows.
2021-09-21 00:02:36 Fenric7: sqAree: Sorry to raise bad memories. It was a little sadistic of me to mention such a massacre. But it was so clinical and expertly executed. Myself, I'd give anything to be the victim of such a brilliancy. My opinion on WTF Champs. It's a World Champs, so there needs to be some sort of credible entry criteria. Being allowed to 'rock up, off the street' is a bit silly. No sport worthy of respect would allow strangers to walk in and enter a World Champs. All players should provide their real names or real sounding names they always go by. I felt that at least 20 games in the last 18 months or 15 in the last year or be a known player who has played at least 20 games in their lifetime. Having people not play any games should be much less likely. New players who are real people who really want to play can wait till next year or play some games against players who for some reason are good but have decided not to play in the World Champs. Beside, there are other tournaments of a lesser nature for them to play in. The World Champs serves as both a magnet to attract interest and to see the best players play the best games. The second aspect should be the primary objective. My concern is that I know there are quality players who are not entered this year! Why? All rational answers welcome.
2021-09-21 09:05:34 xerxes: No Shows: Hagbard is right that we need to be as inclusive as possible and allow 'anyone' to enter, but 'no shows' entering and then not completing (or even hardly starting) their games also devalues the competition and is disrespectful to those who have entered. Perhaps a requirement for entry is that a player must have entered and completed a competition on this site in the last 6 or 12 months or something. That would go some way to demonstrate their commitment and show that they understand how the site works.
2021-09-22 20:51:53 Hagbard: ATTENTION please! Sahkku Round 2 starts Sep. 25th 18 o'clock Danish time. Umpire Mikkel, do you agree with the computer's list of players who move on?
2021-09-24 11:21:23 Hagbard: Computer's list for Sahkku Round 2: rosk, paul7, Hagbard, Draganov, Bogd Khan
2021-09-24 12:33:08 cacreal: Can we ask Alex to finish all his world championship games he resigned early from instead of adding open challenges now ? He resigned against Odin, Draganov and Sebastien without any reason, please disqualify all his games that round
2021-09-24 18:26:36 Bogd Khan: Alex had no chances to win in the games he resigned. However it looks quite early to resign at 16 move, but I don't think he has to be disqualified for this. I think it's better to resign when you see the game is lost, instead of playing until last move.
2021-09-24 19:19:55 Draganov: I think if we annulate Alex's games, it will be messy. Moreover, I don't think he will like to continue his games. He didn't like the tournament format and he decided to leave the tournament. However, he did this in a moment when his positions were not good for him. He decided to resign in our games but he managed to clearly beat Cacreal in one of their games. I think that this Cacreal's lost could be counted. It was a fairly played game with a clear result.
2021-09-24 19:50:50 Draganov: Or maybe the umpire Holidayinnes or Hagbard could play instead of Alex?
2021-09-24 19:56:57 Bogd Khan: Maybe only in the games against Draganov and Odinhimself he had some chances to defend, but it doesn't mean that he was in the better position. The games shouldn't be annulated
2021-09-24 21:54:10 cacreal: Draganov writes like Alex didn’t beat him 13 times and 2 out of the last 4 games they had - the archives are readily available , bingo boy split with Draganov also so he definitely can be beat. I will admit I did split with Alex but should not be penalized by playing our game faster than others.
2021-09-24 22:39:42 Draganov: @Cacreal, tell us how many times I beat Alex? Indeed, he beat me 13 tumes but I beat him 25 times plus the two games in which his positions weren't good. With blacks I completely stopped him in our tournament game. This game is out of any doubts. In the other game I am having very promising position if not completely won position. You must be penalised not because you played faster against Alex but because you simply lost against him. By the way, even if all the games against Alex are annulated, you will be again out of the tournament since you are done against me and it seems you will not win against Holidayinnes since the whites hardly ever win games that are longer than 70 moves.
2021-09-24 22:49:41 cacreal: Draganov you are overconfident for someone that has lost 8 men and refuses a 2 for 1 kill in your favour a few times
2021-09-24 22:51:19 Draganov: I am open to play these two games against you from the point where Alex resigned after the tournament. We just need to repeat the moves until this point. However, what if Alex has beaten me, Sebastian and OdinHimself? What will be your award for our hypothetical losses since you lost to him, me (twice) and Holidayinnes (once or more likely twice) and are out of the tournament?
2021-09-24 22:59:08 Draganov: Losing 8 vikings as black doesn't mean that the game is lost. And I just decided to play more solidly and not to take any unnecessary risk in the end of our second game. This is just another winning plan or you can prove me wrong if you continue playing and beat me.
2021-09-24 23:09:47 cacreal: Can anyone else borrow your crystal ball ? 🔮
2021-09-25 03:00:47 Bogd Khan: @cacreal I don't understand why you feel penalised. Alex was just better than you in this game... It's obvious he was in bad positions in all other games.
2021-09-25 07:35:44 Draganov: We are also not sure whether Alex would have left the tournament if his game positions against me, Sebastian and OdinHimself were good. In my opinion he started playing as hard as he can but after realising that he will not manage to continue to the next round, he left the tournament protesting against its format.
2021-09-25 10:59:17 casshern: @Draganov: Text from previous posts: 09-08/14:33 Draganov: “I will face OdinHimself and SebastianMucke. But if I lose several games on purpose and deteriorate my rating before the start of the tournament, I will face much easier opponents in the first round.” 09-08/15:43 Draganov: “he/she will be placed in the lower stream and will have a strong chance to reach the final rounds without any injures while the survivor of the massacre between the strongest players will reach the final in bloody condition. Then the player who advanced from the low rated position will need to win probably once against the top rated player in order to eliminate him.” 09-10/08:50 casshern: “Conspire, work together, make multiple accounts, I don’t care, personally. As long as black moves first and white follows, it doesn’t matter to me. However, you are absolutely right. It would be unfair to me and especially other players if someone were to cheat as you have said.”
2021-09-25 11:38:53 Draganov: @Casshern, I can't see why you quoted me. As you can see I didn't deteriorate my rating byt Alex did it.
2021-09-25 11:52:50 casshern: @Bogd Khan: Please don’t be so naive and foolish. I noticed how you back tracked your statement from, “Alex had no chances to win in the games he resigned.” To, “Maybe only in the games against Draganov and Odinhimself he had some chances to defend.” (Which are probably the games that matter most. Since it is highly likely that the winner will be one of the 3 highest rated players.) As the highest rated player here, this is my opinion on the games that Alex forfeited prematurely. It looks like black has the advantage in ALL games. Which means that Alex would have been eliminated (having split all is games would have given him 4 losses or 2 points). And Odinhimself, Draganov, and Sebastianmucke each would have lost one game (0.5 points). Had Alex finished all his games. In Alex’s games as black, white didn’t have any pieces that were behind black’s pieces. Rule 7b states, “If the attackers surround the king and ALL remaining defenders, then they win, as they have prevented the king from escaping.” How can you think white is better in any of these games? When the king and all his men are out flanked by black’s pieces. As I have said, I think everyone should play every game through to the end. It is not over until all hope is extinguished. And given white’s positioning, I would say that the fight is nearly over, in each game. Have you ever resigned a game so early? Without white having even moved the king off the throne??? Or without white having even been able to get a piece past your defenses?????
2021-09-25 12:21:50 casshern: @Draganov: Is it not clear why I quoted you? You speak and Alex does. You should know why I quoted you, if you had read my quote. I have no proof that you and Alex Hnefatafl are not the same person. And even if you are different people, I have no proof that you two are not working together. Alex has played unfairly. I think you would call this cheating. He intentionally forfeit games before the tournament to lower his rating. And he intentionally forfeit games in the tournament to help certain players. You coincidentally happen to be one of those players. If he didn’t want to play the tournament, then why did he sign up? It looks to me like he only wanted to avoid playing me and try to beat Cacreal. Is that not what you warned about, a “bloody massacre?” Which your “friend” conveniently spared you from. If you truly are for fair play, I don’t see how you don’t condemn his actions. He is intentionally and unfairly giving a leg up to you, Odin, and Sebastian. He continues to communicate through you. I find it ironic that you preach fair play, but are so close to someone who has no integrity.
2021-09-25 12:35:10 casshern: @Draganov: Bottom line is, you did not beat Alex. More importantly he did not beat you. But you did not earn that. It was a gift from him to you. I think most players would like their opponents to forfeit too! It wouldn’t be fun, but it would save a lot of time.
2021-09-25 12:40:58 Draganov: @Casshern, I am not going to defend myself thy I am not Alex. Hagbard could prove that we are playing from different countries. To say that we are one person is the same as if I say that you are Edmond Dantes. It's ridiculous.
2021-09-25 12:45:02 Draganov: And yes, Alex was unfair to resign early. But what is my fault on it? He clearly beat Cacreal and he wasn't going to beat me, Odin and Sebastian. Can you make a difference between finished game with a clear victory and a game which is not finished? Cacreal lost to Alex, that's it. The other players didn't lose.
2021-09-25 12:55:11 Draganov: What if a player beat one opponent and timed out all other games? Do we need to annulate all of his games including the game that he won? However, I don't care about it. Hagbard could annulate all Alex's games. Cacreal is out even without losing to Alex. Rhe only person who has interest now Alex to finish his games is Casshern since Odin, Sebastian and me could potentially lose some points.
2021-09-25 13:43:37 Bogd Khan: I do agree with Draganov. Carceal lost the game. That's it. Other games has no matter. @casshern I think that Draganov and Odinhimself were in much better position, because they are great players with whites. If they were playing against you or me the chances would've be 50/50. But this is Alex. I find him very good with white pieces but his defence is often the weak part of his games. However he is very smart player and he can see early when the game is lost. That's why I do approve his choice to resign. I don't understand why do you say that to resign isn't fair play. It'll be not fair play to give 2 points to carceal although he lost one of his 2 games...
2021-09-25 17:52:16 casshern: Cacreal lost his matches fairly. What you guys seem so be missing is that Draganov, Odin, and Sebastian did not win fairly. They won because another player is trying to intentionally cheat the system. What if certain players were to only sign up and play to help one or several players succeed. They would play hard against certain players and not play hard or even simply resign against one or several players. You guys are all smart enough to understand this concept. You point out how players can make new user names or intentionally loss games for better seeding before the tournament. But, these things would happen before the tournament. They would have no baring during the tournament. Each player would still have to play their games to the best of their abilities. But I am talking about manipulation that is happening during the tournament. Do you guys not see how this is a problem? I will give you an example. What if a player, Alex for example, were to tell another player, Draganov as an example, that he will let him win to better help his chances during the tournament. Additionally, Alex would try to win games against Draganov’s opponents to give Draganov a leg up. And you can apply this concept to everyone. Such actions would undermine the integrity of the tournament. How do we ensure that this is not happening? We cannot. I personally think that this is not the case here. But, it is exactly what it looks like is happening here. It is manipulating game results during the tournament. And beside, a player doesn’t have to resign to manipulate, he can simply just player lower than his abilities against certain opponents. And we would have no way to know or prove it. What if I had such help? I wouldn’t mind players forfeiting against me for no reason and taking point off of my opponents. But it has never been done before now. For a player to not even try to finish his games when he had good positioning, even an advantage. In the past players have finished so
2021-09-25 17:54:35 casshern: In the past players have finished some games, but timed out the majority of their games. But, I have never seen a player start his games and just give up without even trying to finish the position. Especially when he has better positioning than his opponents.
2021-09-25 18:17:06 OdinHimself: Hi all. I want to ask you politely not to associate my name with Alex Hnefatafl, Edmond Dantes and other psychos. I will state my position one time only: I participate in this tournament for the love of the game. I don't care about ratings, formats, calculations etc. I even haven't looked at the Archives to review the latest games (for example the forementioned Alex/cacreal match). I work all day long, start my PC when I'm back home, visit the tournament page, make my moves trying to play the best I can and then I surf through some other music torrent trackers before I turn off the PC and go to bed. That's it.
2021-09-25 18:18:44 OdinHimself: And you know what - it's relieving. I feel free and pure. I will not say a word if you delete my account, if you zero my rating, if you put me to face a weak or strong opponent... I just don't care. It's indifferently to me at which place am I going to finish the tournament, even if it's the last. Several years ago I played for victory at all cost, now I don't. If you played better than me, then you deserve the victory. The only thing I have zero tolerance for is cheating. Unfortunatelly, if I can't prove it, I have to remain silent.
2021-09-25 18:20:32 OdinHimself: I told you some time ago, when Alex Hnefatafl first appeared in this site, he's mad and no one should pay attention to him, but you didn't listen and I obtained (a deserved) post ban. Most of you are highly intelligent people and I'm deeply shocked when I read your posts. This forum has become a women's market. Excuse my viking rudeness and directness, but "Bite your tongues" and be men. I feel sorry for Hagbard (imagine how he has to deal with this flock of croaking geese), this man is our treasure and if we lose him some day it will be too late to realize what we had and what we don't have no more.
2021-09-25 18:22:24 OdinHimself: Alex is a psycho, don't pay attention to him, a couple of days ago he was banned even from Felhuhn's mobile app. My friends, brothers, please, let's just play some hnefatafl and be happy with it. I'm done talking. Skal!
2021-09-25 18:39:01 casshern: Regardless of your opinion of what may or may not have happened here. The fact is that a few players have been fitted from foul play by one player. Now, I would like you guys to address my questions/concerns about this type of situation moving forward. Forgot what has happened in the tournament. Just think about the scenarios that I have presented. What should we do about players “fixing” matches in future tournaments? Should it just be allowed to happen? Should we just say, “Well tough luck. We can’t control it. Deal with it.” What should be the consequences for cheating? No consequences? As “honest” players, how would you feel if you felt things were unfair? Things were happening that created an advantage for specific players. What should be done?
2021-09-25 18:48:15 casshern: @Odinhimself: Thank you for your posts. I have always respected your play and your opinions. We may not always agree on things, but if find you to be of sound mind and noble intentions. You have done so much for the game. It is a shame when things like this happen here. @All: I am simply trying to improve everyone’s tournament experience. I think you all would agree that cheating should not be allowed. I only personally withstand cheating against me because I seek to explore the deepest depths that this game has to offer. But what should and can be done about cheating or game fixing?
2021-09-25 19:39:42 Draganov: @Casshern, let me give my opinion on the situation. As an amateur chess player, I know that a similar situation occurred in chess 50 years ago when the Soviet players decided to play against Fischer and give him hard play but played badly and lost against the one of the Soviet players who was decided to win the tournament. Well, Fischer solved this issue when he beat and smashed alone all of the Soviet players. I am sure you can beat all of us although this situation is not the same and Alex or anyone else is not cheating you.If I have to be honest, I don't think that we could prevent such cheating. If a group of players decide to cheat, they will be able to do it. We just need to trust each other and play fairly. What is your proposal in our situation?
2021-09-25 19:47:32 Draganov: My personal proposal is to implement a rule that if a game is abondon too early because of timing out, not showing at all ot resigning in a too unclear position, the umpire should finish it. However, in our case the umpire is a participant in the tournament (Holidayinnes) and if he needs to play in 6 additional games, it would affect his focus on his own games. That's why I think that Hagbard could be the most suitable person to finish the games or a volunteer outside the tournament.
2021-09-25 19:54:22 Draganov: However, I think that we don't have to annulate Alex's games since he clearly beat Cacreal. So, I think that someone could finish the abandoned games or they could be left as they are. I don't think Cacreal deserved two wins against Alex since he clearly lost a game against him. However, I don't care since his games against Alex will not affect the tournament result and he will be eliminated because he is going to lose twice against me and Holidayinnes.
2021-09-25 20:14:17 red-ron: @OdinHimself: My thoughts exactly. Skal! Christoph
2021-09-25 20:17:31 Draganov: My will is to finish these unfinished games but against Alex or someone of similar strength. My personal wish is Herjan ... this old, creazy and mead drunk warrior. He is a true berserk, so I would be happy to fight against him. Hagbard could be my second choice. However, this proposal is the best creative solution that I can propose.
2021-09-25 23:55:42 Bogd Khan: @casshern I do agree with you about manipulation. In this tournament system it's very easy to cheat, especially if already eliminated player helps you in the games between you to win without losing points. That's why I think this system is not very good. Yes, it's funny, it's something new, it's quite fast, but seems unfair. I also can finish Alex's games, everyone who doesn't participate can, but It's not right according to me. The tournament has rules which should be followed, at least until tournament ending. The next tournament will have new rules and less problems I hope. But this one should be finished with the current rules. @All However if you think everything in this system sucks there is always an option Hagbard to change tournament setup and every player to play against every other player with adding new games between the players who still not met. In this case Alex will feel even worse for leaving his games hahaha
2021-09-26 00:14:35 Fenric7: My tournament is over. Thank you organisers. Thank you opponents. Unfortunate to have one player not turn up. Never mind. Two real victories with the white pieces was the minimum I wanted to achieve. Since I've only been playing since June, sanity and realism forces me to find this acceptable. Now to improve and have my first ever win with the black pieces. Black pieces matter! Actually, no pieces matter. But we pretend that they do. Comment: all this discussion amazes me. A tiny group and all this kerfuffle. If the game has been 'gamed' than the game has to get smarter. I don't consider this to be cheating. But I don't think that drugs in sport is cheating. So I deviate from normality quite a bit. Suggestion: change the qualifying criteria. Change the format. Maybe the Swiss system like in Chess. This will cause mismatches at first but soon will settle down. Also a candidates tournament to determine a challenger to take on the world Champ in a best of how ever many games. Unlike the Chess world championship, more than one game could be played at a time. I wish I could watch the games while they are being played, but understand this is ill advised. I don't think Alex 'cheated'. If it's a problem, make the rules clearer. Umpire's decision. Ban a player for life if you really want to stamp out certain behaviour. Make people play under real names and make them prove who they are, so they can never play under other names. That's not right. Or, don't care, as it's just a game and all this is just a silly part of the great game of life. Don't worry, it will all be over soon enough and this will seem trivial.
2021-09-26 00:24:16 Fenric7: Thinking with greater clarity (more than none), I realise that there are real probs for the organisers to resolve and it would be best if the tournament didn't take three years to be completed. Perhaps rating manipulation could be resolved by having only the top 4 or 6 or 8 players in the world champs. Have another tournament for the lower rated, running at the same time. Want to play in the world champs? Play better games.
2021-09-26 02:28:49 Fenric7: The two games played btw Careal and Sebastianmucke are very good and worth a look.
2021-09-26 02:29:08 Fenric7: Cacreal
2021-09-26 06:59:28 Draganov: The problem with rating manipulation could be easily solved. We just need to keep records on the monthly rating or the rating for a three-month period. Then the rating for seeding in the tournament should be based on the rating records for the whole year. New players could start the tournament playing against other new players like this year.
2021-09-26 07:02:21 Draganov: The Swiss system is good but very slow when playing correspondent games. I still truly believe that my system is the best. Round-rubin first round of three groups and semifinals and a final. The world champ can join the group winners on the semifinals.
2021-09-26 11:25:25 Fenric7: The World Champ needs opportunities for match practice to stay in form. Playing people later may mean the Champ is underdone perhaps. Also, when I started playing in June, my rating was 1400 plus. This seems to have been the average rating combining all other players. My true rating is certainly less than 1200 as I have never won with my blacks. The white privilege in Copenhagen Rules is very real. You have to be clever. I wonder how long the best players take over each move? I don't know enough for there to be much point in taking more than ten minutes. I consider my moves by analysing over a proper board. Having a higher IQ would help more though.
2021-09-26 11:35:52 Draganov: I think it would be enough for the champ to warm up when joining on the semifinals. The champ can always practice meanwhile with other opponents. It is not necessary to start from the first round and play with weak opponents.
2021-09-26 17:55:20 casshern: @Draganov: Your proposal for 1 round of round robin then Swiss system for Semis and Finals would still take 3+ rounds, just like last year. I don’t see how this will help shorten the duration of the tournament. Except for the fact that all but 4 players will be eliminated after the first round. Additionally, it would probably lead to using tiebreakers. Which I think should be avoided. The Tyr test tournament that we did to test this current tournament format shows why the Swiss system is not best here. Jilles and I played 3 full matches in the tournament and we split each set of games. Plus, we split another pair of games which brings our record against each other to 4-4. We may still be playing now to see if one of us could sweep a pair of games to find a winner. Or we could us tiebreakers, like shortest game or fewest pieces lost. But, that was not necessary because I lost 1 game to you and Jilles did not. There is our tiebreaker. In a natural form. Plus I don’t think the Swiss system works well for correspondence games. It works best with a shorter time control. Players cannot play multiple matches simultaneously. Since we do play correspondence here, I think being able to play multiple matches simultaneously helps us speed up the tournament duration. Even with Swiss system we will have players who play slowly. Dragging out the tournament. I don’t see how Swiss system would change this issue. To clarify, I am referring to your proposal of Semis and Final as the Swiss system, in this instance.
2021-09-26 18:45:51 casshern: @Fenric7: Thank you so much for pointing out the games between Cacreal and Sebastianmucke. I had not taken a look at them until you pointed them out. The Sebastianmucke/Cacreal game is a perfect example of why players should finish the matches that they start. It can be argued that Sebastian had the advantage for most of the match. And especially for the final 10 moves or so. As the march wound down and the victory for Sebastian seemed inevitable. But Cacreal found a way to pull out the last minute victory. It is beautiful to watch such moments like that. Which is why I am so upset that Alex intentionally forfeit the majority of his matches without even trying. It really undermines the integrity of the tournament. I have also had matches over the years were one side or another had a huge advantage. Only to lose the match because of a last minute mistake or a stoke of pure brilliance. Here are a couple of examples from 2 of my old Berserk games: Casshern/Hagbard (2017-03-03) Casshern/Khan Asparukh (2019-01-06) Looking back at the game with Khan, I see how white created a lot of good positions. Even so, I remember when I was playing the game it felt completely hopeless to me. I thought black had done a great job defending. I was on the verge of resignation when I saw one last hope to go for. Had black played g1-g4 on move 57, it would have blocked the double capture that was to come and blocked the king from getting to the B file, which was the immediate danger. I may have continued to play the position if black had played g1-g4. But, I believe that black would have won after that point. White would have just been prolonging the game, hoping for a mistake that was highly likely not to come.
2021-09-26 21:15:17 casshern: For all who continue to defend/excuse/accept/write off Alex’s actions: The truth is we cannot know why he forfeit all his games. He might tell Draganov that it was because he did not like the format. But that could be a lie, right? We can speculate that he felt he was going to loss anyways, but we cannot know for sure, right? And even if he does say that, it could be a lie right? Alex has continuously acted with malicious intentions. From being banned from chat for abuse, to intentionally forfeiting games to lower his rating to get better seeding in tournament. As Draganov warned could happen. If it were another player then I would probably give them the benefit of the doubt. But, I think I can safely say that most players here are honest and respect fair play. Therefore I can’t see any other player acting with such poor sportsmanship. I understand that we cannot control these things. Some players will cheat to try and create an advantage. Some players just don’t have the time to play. This is the difference between timing out games and forfeiting intentionally/prematurely. My point is we cannot know why Alex did what he did. I have stated what it looks like to me. I feel that it sets a bad precedent. How do we judge similar situations moving forward. Should we just accept the outcomes or should there be penalties?
2021-09-26 21:15:46 casshern: A few more thoughts and I will start with a repost from about a month ago: 08-29/08:43 Dimetr: About Alex Hnefatafl - Maybe he is careless in his statements, but this site needs him. There are only a few strong players here, including Alex. If Alex really is so good and we “need” him. Then why are other players so quick to write off his games? After only about 10 moves they say, he has bad position. He will probably lose anyways. And just like players who time out their games, I don’t think we “need” someone who is going to forfeit a majority of his matches, in only a few moves. Especially when he continues to be a very active player. I am sorry to continue to drag everyone’s name through the mud. Odin and Sebastian are the true victums here. They did nothing wrong. I just don’t understand how Draganov, Bogd Khan, and others continue to not see what Odin, myself, and others see. I guess I just want more accountability and less excuses.
2021-09-27 08:11:59 Steiger: @casshern: Mario, my friend, it seems to me - that you took the brunt. And you, the best of us! We appreciate it! I wish you health and prosperity! And my compliments to Ааge: few people deserve to bear the name "Hagbard" - Ааge really deserves it!
2021-09-27 08:27:25 Steiger: Throughout the history of this site, there have not been many inadequate users among Hnefatafl fans (we all know their names), but for all their inadequacy, they have all made significant contributions to the development of Hnefatafl and our community. But, despite their usefulness, I personally do not have the slightest desire to play and communicate with them!
2021-09-27 09:13:31 Draganov: @Casshern, my proposal for the semifinals and the final was a single-elimination format with at least 4 games starting simultaneously. In my opinion, best of 4 games match could not be too less for players with equal strength. That's why my personal wish is if it would be possible to play 8 or 10 games matches. When we had groups, a player usually played against 7-8 opponents. It means that a player played 14-16 games at once. I don't think playing 10 games against one opponent would be more exhausting than playing in a round-robin group. I have tested this best of 10 games matches against Holidayinnes, Alex, Floki and Jrton80 and couldn't see any problems on both sides. However, I will not advocate this match format for the first round where there are many players and some of them are not going to show off. It would be really a confusing situation if a player timed out all of his 10 match-games. However, I am proposing this single-elimination matches best of 8 or best of 10 games only for the semifinals and the final. It is supposed that the 4 players who will reach the semifinals will be experienced and well-known, so I think we are not going to have no-showers on the semifinals.
2021-09-27 18:27:20 Hagbard: ATTENTION please! Sahkku Round 3 starts Sep. 30th 18 o'clock Danish time. Umpire Mikkel, do you agree with the computer's list of players who move on?
2021-09-28 21:20:16 ChaolAibhne: Speaking as umpire for the Tawlbwrdd tournament: Cato and Saxon did not complete the minimum number of games and so their games will be removed from the tournament, as if they had never registered.
2021-09-28 21:58:56 holidayinnes: Holidayinnes: Speaking as umpire for the Copenhagen tournament: Alex Hnefatafl, Gungnir, Saxon, Mathgamain, Jollyroger and Halle did not complete the minimum number of games and so their games will be removed from the tournament, as if they had never registered. This decision was unanimous amongst all umpires.
2021-09-28 23:48:55 Jrton80: @Draganov "Methinks doth protest to much" Yes, I am misquoting - But seriously, I ask you, please, quit being Alex's proxy. Unless you got some actual code to offer, you are just making trouble. There is history here which I do not think you are, or can, take into account. We have done the round robin thing. The first world tournament I was in here was exactly all the other tournaments ran throughout the year, everybody in and the blood was everywhere then we got split up into groups, then geographical groups, then by player rating, and a few other changes I am skipping or forgetting AND now we got this double elimination thing going. The Tournaments do change. To keep pushing for changes before the cycle is complete is getting a little annoying. Could we Please complete this one and see the results first?
2021-09-28 23:53:31 Jrton80: @OdinHimself I have been feeling the same way - Love to play but I have not been all the motivated nor worried about winning and all this does seem to be Much ado about nothing
2021-09-29 08:32:22 MasterLuke: I couldn't agree more with Jrton80 and Odinhimself. I think we should appreciate the effort Hagbard has put in this website through the years. Please cut off that annoying crap about how the tournament should be organised... And please don't bother waisting one word more on individuals like Alex Hnefatafl (hereby I did it for the last time myself). This is a game, we play it for fun. No prizes to win. I'd like to read more encouraging, happy things on this forum.
2021-09-29 10:45:05 Draganov: I shared my thoughts on the tournament format. I am glad that Hagbard implemented elimination format after 3 test tournaments, which were quite successful in my opinion. I have never been intending to be an Alex's proxy. I just share his intention to join the tournament since he was banned from the chat. I also shared some of his thoughts regarding the game changes and that's it. I think if Alex has to tell us something regarding the game, we do not have to censor him. However, I truly agree that he deserved to be banned since he insulted many people (including me in Facebook, so he will not be able to use me to share his thoughts on the game anymore). Well, my intention is to focus on the games and play more instead of writing in the chat. I said what I had in mind regarding the tournament format. I didn't want to make changes for this tournament. I proposed a tournament of first round group round-robin and semifinals and a final of single-elimination format. However, my proposal is to test such a format and not to implement it in 2021. Probably after 2-3 years if everything is OK with the format it should be consider to be used in the world championship. So, enough talk from me, I am going to use my sword and axe fighting on the board and not my keyboard for writing.
2021-09-29 17:54:12 Bogd Khan: What a decision?! Why do you say Alex did not completed his games? He did it. And everyone saw that. Why do you say if someone resign he did not complete his games? Unfinished game should be a a game lost by timeout, not resign. If you think resigning is not fair just remove that button... and don't think I like Alex or defend him. I don't like him, but the decision is not right.
2021-09-30 07:32:51 Jrton80: @Bogd Khan I am on the fence about it. I mean, on the surface it does seem a bit of an overreaction, but casshern is obviously pissed about it which does not often happen and I have not had the time to look at the games in question. Of course, I am saying that after taking a 2 hour nap after dinner.
2021-10-01 09:46:28 Adam: Speaking as Umpire: Regarding the removal of Alex H's games from the Copenhagen tournament: It was unanimously agreed by the four umpires that the nature of Alex H's resignations; simultaneous and largely in positions which did not warrant resignation, displayed a decision on his part to not participate in the tournament. We hasten to add that resigning a game in and of itself does not warrant having a game or player removed. This was an unusual set of circumstances, effectively the same as a player timing out more than half of their games, hence it was covered by the rule stating: A player who causes half or more of his Round games to time out or does not show up for the round, is disqualified from the tournament.
2021-10-04 17:20:47 Hagbard: ATTENTION please! Tawlbwrdd Round 2 starts Oct. 7th 18 o'clock Danish time. Umpire Hamish, do you agree with the computer's list of players who move on? (casshern, Masterluke, jilles, paul7, Rollo, Draganov)
2021-10-04 21:08:52 Masterluke: @Hagbard: something weird is going on in my battle tyr-w 11x11 against Rollo. He took two of my men in a berserk move: f2 and h2 (move 29). Yet my man on f2 stays visible. He’s gone in the replay, though.
2021-10-04 21:26:08 Hagbard: I don't know what happened there. Removed the piece.
2021-10-04 22:11:09 ChaolAibhne: Yes, I agree with the list of players who move on to the next round of Tawlbwrdd
2021-10-06 11:31:26 Draganov: @Hagbard, it seems that there is a bug and the rule 9 of the Copenhagen variant is not implemented automatically. rule 9: 'If a player cannot move, he loses the game'. Can you check my game against Cacreal. I blocked his last viking but the game is still not over despite he is not able to move.
2021-10-06 11:41:32 Hagbard: Umpire's case. But there seems to be an imperfection in the program there.
2021-10-07 15:50:33 holidayinnes: Speaking as Copenhagen umpire: The Cacreal / Draganov game is unfinished because of a bug in the programming. Black won this game since white is blocked and cannot move.
2021-10-15 22:31:48 Jrton80: @Hagbard is my memory playing tricks on me or didn't we find that issue in Berserker once?
2021-10-15 23:45:51 Hagbard: Is it the two Tyr 15x15 games? They look normal?
2021-10-16 09:33:44 Hagbard: No you mean the cannot-move issue? Possibly, it happens so rarely -
2021-10-17 16:37:51 Irish Raven: Hagbard - In my Brandubh game against Paul7 I have noticed that my time buffer has gone down by 2 days even though it has been Paul7 to move for the last 2 days. Is there something wrong here?
2021-10-17 17:56:30 Hagbard: It's a bug in the function "Show Time Buffers". The value is correct for the player whose turn it is, but sometimes the same value is incorrectly shown also for the other player. It has no effect, the player not in the turn will not time out. By the way the large forum is now opened for new registering.
2021-10-17 18:10:08 Irish Raven: @Hagbard: Thanks for the clarification.
2021-10-19 13:06:48 xerxes: @Hagbard: Ref the new Daldos 3x17. I have had ten moves so far across 6 games, but have only had 1 'X'. I realise that might just be bad luck, but it does seem a bit unlikely if the dice are random.
2021-10-19 13:33:38 Hagbard: Yes and yesterday I started a game with incredibly many nox. But I use this algorithm from the internet, and it does look very efficient (php): function rand_best($min, $max) { $generated = array(); for ($i = 0; $i < 100; $i++) { $generated[] = mt_rand($min, $max); } shuffle($generated); $position = mt_rand(0, 99); return $generated[$position]; }
2021-10-19 13:52:38 Draganov: @Hagbard, as a programmer (JavaScript) I can't see anything wrong with this code. It creates an array with 100 elements and each of them is with a random value between min (1) and max (3). Then it randomizes these elements in the array and generates a random position and return one of the 100 elements from the array based on the generated position value. Well, this code is very good for randomizing the values and produces a value based on a lot of randomization. However, can you check the logic for the generation of X value? I remember that in Sahkku there was a bug in which a value of 1 was produced instead of X and with the dice value of 1, we could not activate a piece.
2021-10-19 13:57:11 Hagbard: This is the function call: $terninger = $this->rand_best(1, 4) . $this->rand_best(1, 4);
2021-10-19 14:21:40 Draganov: And what happened if the function returns 1. How 1 is converted to X or it is just displayed as X on the Front-end but the back-end logic is using 1 for X?
2021-10-19 14:26:17 Hagbard: The latter. 1 is 1 for the program but is just presented for the player as X.
2021-10-19 14:30:30 Draganov: So, I can't see anything wrong on the programming point of view. Probably Xerxes was just unlucky in his games.
2021-10-19 14:56:45 Hagbard: ATTENTION please! Copenhagen Round 2 starts Oct. 22nd 18 o'clock Danish time. Umpire Mike, do you agree with the computer's list of players who move on? (casshern, holidayinnes, paul7, Jrton80, Rollo, sqAree, Luizz, OdinHimself, Draganov, Masterluke, cacreal, Potapych, garun19)
2021-10-19 15:48:14 xerxes: @Hagbard, Draganov: Thanks. I'm always unlucky in my games !
2021-10-19 19:43:55 Draganov: @Hagbard, what is the popularity of Daldøs in Denmark? Is it a well-known game amongst the people?
2021-10-19 19:45:58 Hagbard: Using the shown dice function, a test was run throwing the dice 1000 times. Result: 1 268 times 2 235 times 3 253 times 4 244 times
2021-10-19 19:51:32 Hagbard: I guess that Daldøs in Denmark is today mostly for special interested people, that is game board historians and historical game board enthusiasts.
2021-10-20 10:18:41 Steiger: https://youtu.be/JCAP8P67SC0
2021-10-21 02:49:53 holidayinnes: Yes hagbard, I agree with the players advancing to round 2
2021-10-21 19:44:28 sqAree: Very nice games with white, @draganov. It's cool to see white victories in such long games. They looked really interesting and fiercely fought as well. :)
2021-10-22 08:24:48 OdinHimself: @SqAree: Indeed. I'm very proud that Bulgaria finally delivered a "good" tafl genius! :) Good luck further Plamen, my friend! You, Bogdan and me must clear the evil, black spot that Dantes sticked to Bulgaria's name in the tafl world and show all these fine gentlemen here the true face of our nation - honest and purposeful pursuit of development. We are all brothers here, no matter what, we all breathe and live in the name of hnefatafl!
2021-10-22 09:35:53 Draganov: @SqAree and @OdinHimself, I am glad that you like my games. I think they are good examples of white's positional play. Against Casshern the game was a true battle for every square. It is good that the whites manages to win in a longer game. It means that tafl is a rich game with many opportunities for both sides to win the game. Even after 100 moves the whites are not lost and have chances to win the game.
2021-10-22 09:38:35 Draganov: @Hagbard, can you find the longest game in which the whites won? I just wonder to know what is the longest victory for the whites and what is the game in which the blacks won with the least amount of vikings left?
2021-10-22 16:17:00 Hagbard: I can check after the tournament; there's a good chance that the 142 moves game is the longest one.
2021-10-22 16:21:52 Hagbard: May Thor grant you strength and courage on your way
2021-10-23 11:12:25 xerxes: @Draganov: I had a 149 move game with Jrton80 in the 2018 Wolrd Champs. White won
2021-10-25 00:29:49 Hagbard: ATTENTION please! Tawlbwrdd Round 3 can start very soon. Umpire Hamish, do you agree with the computer's list of players who move on? (casshern, Draganov)
2021-10-27 11:46:24 ChaolAibhne: Yes, I agree with Casshern and Draganov moving on to round 3 of the Tawlbwrdd tournament
2021-10-27 13:11:07 mihkkal: The Borchgrevink Expedition built the first houses on Antarctica, and one of the very first board games to be played in those houses was Sáhkku. More info here (click on each picture in the post for info) https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2485023098297757&id=1418288921637852&viewer=1418288921637852&m_entstream_source=timeline&paipv=1
2021-10-27 19:08:56 Jrton80: @Draganov The longest game I have been in and with white winning is: jrton80 / Bogd Khan. Berserk Hnefatafl 11x11, 224 moves, 2019-04-26 22:44:50, white won (jrton80) - FYI I have beaten Bogd Khan once with either since then. I think I annoyed him with that win. and @xerxes yes I do recall that game.
2021-10-28 10:01:55 Draganov: @Jrton80, I have never played Berserk Hnefatafl 11x11 but I supposed that it is more complex game than the other tafl variants. So, probably it is normal that the game was longer. However, winning with the whites after so many moves is an amazing achievement for you.
2021-10-28 15:13:50 Draganov: Welcome back to Plantagenet! I am glad that such a strong player is back to the game and hope to see him battle against the new generation of players including myself. Cheers!
2021-10-28 16:20:52 OdinHimself: Skal, Plantagenet, my friend.
2021-10-29 11:37:36 Draganov: @Hagbard, I can see that the next tournament will be Daldøs 3x14. These kind of games (Sahkku and Daldøs) are very easy-going and they are finished in less days than the tafl tournaments. In my opinion it would be better if you organize more than one tournament in the same time. These tournaments are not as serious and tough as the world championships and could be played more regularly. So, in this way, we could test a lot of variants. I mean we could play at the same time not only Sahkku and Daldøs but also some minor and inferior variants such as Tyr, Simple Tafl, Brandubh. I think an active player could easily play in two tournaments like Brandubh and Tablut simultaneously.
2021-10-29 12:24:36 Hagbard: I see your point. There's deliberately been a pause in the ordinary tafl tournaments until the Cop. World Champ. gets to Round 3, as to not disturb the players. So we've practised the non-tafl games in the waiting time.
2021-10-29 12:58:41 Draganov: Yes, I understand that while the Copenhagen World Championship is running, it will not be good to disturb the players with another tournaments. However, after the world championship is over, I think it would be good to have more than one tournament running in the same time.
2021-10-31 02:10:23 Jrton80: @Draganov yes, beserker is more complex, but that does not make it longer - stubborn refusal to resign while I still had my knight makes berserker longer
2021-11-01 12:42:03 mihkkal: When will the Daabloe tournament begin?
2021-11-01 13:55:47 Hagbard: Monday morning Nov. 8th.
2021-11-12 17:29:37 cacreal: @plamen - validation and happiness come from within , look inside your gold medal 🥇 is waiting
2021-11-13 00:10:51 ChaolAibhne: Speaking as umpire, I declare Draganov as the winner of the Tawlbwrdd tournament
2021-11-13 16:26:08 OdinHimself: Congratulations on the first Bulgarian champion! And respect to all opponents in this tournament!
2021-11-17 09:10:01 Hagbard: ATTENTION please! Copenhagen Round 3 starts Nov. 20th 18 o'clock Danish time. Umpire Mike, do you agree with the computer's list of players who move on? (sqAree, Draganov)
2021-11-17 16:19:44 holidayinnes: Speaking as umpire, I agree with the computer's list.
2021-11-18 12:59:24 mihkkal: Hi! There's a bug in the Daabloe game between Holidayinnes and me. He has immobilized my pieces but the game hasn't noticed that he's won.
2021-11-18 18:13:13 Hagbard: fixed for now
2021-11-20 17:19:38 Hagbard: May Odin give you knowledge on your path
2021-11-21 18:44:36 Hagbard: The World Champ. Tourn. is not finished yet, 5 games or more are left, and time for evaluation is not until after the finis. However, it would be interesting to try to downscale the "Double Elimination" scheme which was used, into a similar "Single Elimination" and see if it would work. It could be tested from Nov. 29th with the variant Sea battle tafl 13x13 (Nielsen). The positive game balance helps the cargo ship a bit to escape.
2021-11-22 09:47:38 Draganov: @Hagbard, how many games would be played in a single-elimination match. In my opinion if we play just 2 games, too many matches will be split and the winner will be determined by additional criteria. How are we going to resolve ties? My second considiration is about the match-length. For me playing just 2 games in a round is not enough to satisfy my desire to battle on the tafl field. Many players on the site are playing 10-15 games at once. Focusing on just 2 games would be boring for them. In my opinion, we need to play at least 4 games matches (2 games with the whites and 2 games with the blacks) against a single opponent.
2021-11-22 10:04:50 Hagbard: Good points. If the World Champ. table for tawlbwrdd is seen from the point of Single Elim. (4 games against 2 opponents), then out of 13 players 8 are eliminated in Round 1 and 5 move on to Round 2.
2021-11-22 10:24:47 Hagbard: - Similarly, when the World Champ. table for Copenhagen is examined the same way, then out of 21 players 12 are eliminated in Round1 and 9 move on to Round 2.
2021-11-22 10:35:14 Hagbard: - Similarly, World Champ. table for Sahkku, out of 10 players 5 are eliminated in Round 1 and 5 move on to Round 2.
2021-12-02 10:04:02 Draganov: @Hagbard, what happened to the Alea Evangelii variants? Why they are removed from the playing options? Could you share your experience on the balance of these variants?
2021-12-02 11:17:22 Hagbard: Ok. Two perhaps playable variants were found: Unst Alea Evangelii 19x19, balance -1.09 from 75 games. But strong players alone, balance -1.60 from 27 games. According to Tim Millar (crust) this variant is played on the island Unst, 4 hirdmen are captured from 3 sides. Alea Berserk 19x19 (Bartley), balance +1.50 from 130 spil. Invented by Adam Bartley who mixes in the rules the strong king with berserk. The 19x19 board is a problem-child, it has been really difficult to find a good way to play on this board and with a setup similar to the illustration in an old English paper. Last time we tried the Unst Alea one couldn't help but get a strong impression that black broadly speaking always wins. To that, the internet players have little interest in large boards. They avoid boards even larger than 11x11, only 4% of the games played use boards larger than 11x11.
2021-12-02 23:01:02 xerxes: @Hagbard. I know I have mentioned this before, but I think there is still an issue with the dice in Daldos. In my game against Jilles we have had 11 goes before the first 'X' to me as Black. Jilles has had 7 throws and still no 'X'. I realise that it is statistically possible, but it is much less probable than the frequency with which it happens. This is not an isolated incident.
2021-12-02 23:32:30 Hagbard: Thanks. The dice are better, but your example shows that not enough. (Technically, the function random_int is used and a pause of 1 second between each call. I'd want to make each dice an independent thread, but that's forbidden on a webserver.) Draganov suggested to insert in the program that 3 nox in a row is not accepted. It seems that such a patch is necessary.
2021-12-03 09:00:25 xerxes: @Hagbard: Draganov's suggestion of not accepting 3 nox n a row is a good one and would help. At present, a run of nox at the start of a game puts that player at a huge dissadvantage.
2021-12-03 11:47:52 Draganov: Not accepting 3 nox in a row is a possible solution for Daldos. However, I think it would be good to use such a rule only for the beginning of the game until both players activate at least one of their pieces. If we have such a rule in the middle of the game it could cause some problems. For example, imagine a situation in which I have active pieces and my opponent doesn't and I know that he already had 2 nox dice. I will know that on his next throw he will have at least one X so I will not place one of my pieces on the square next to his first unactive piece because I will know that my opponent will kill my piece on his next move. This is just one of the problems that may occur, however, I do think that even with such cons, the implementation of not accepting 3 nox in a row will make the game better to play.
2021-12-03 11:53:33 mihkkal: Re: the Daldos nox issue. In the related Sáhkku games, modern play has an optional rule that each player can start with the three foremost pieces pre-activated. Prevents people from being stuck for a prolonged time in the beginning of the game due to nox.
2021-12-03 12:07:05 Hagbard: A simple patch is used now: In Daldøs each player will never get nox in his 3rd move. Rest of the game is unaffected. The Sahkku solution starting with 3 live men is a good one. Daldøs cannot do the same, because live men have to move one step forward.
2021-12-03 14:07:38 mihkkal: Sounds like a good patch! When starting with 3 preactivated in Sáhkku they are placed as if they have all been activated by X, ie. activated and moved one ahead. I can see why that wouldn't work with Daldøs now you mention it: they'll crash because they move onto the middle row in the same direction... Side note: Sáhkku can also be played like that. Sáhkku is usually played vuosttuk, i.e. pieces move onto the middle row from opposite directions, but it can also be played miedhuk, i.e. the pieces move onto the middle row from the same direction.
2021-12-04 11:44:06 Hagbard: In December I put on the chat forum some songs of Christmas/winter which I happen to know. Perhaps others know some songs of this time of year from your countries too?
2021-12-07 18:39:45 Steiger: https://youtu.be/NXZhXkn0bmI
2021-12-07 18:43:28 Steiger: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXQ15PyKM-M
2021-12-07 19:39:02 Hagbard: Perhaps it's a problem to some that links in the chat forum are not clickable. The December links are placed clickable under the box, too.
2021-12-07 22:41:11 xerxes: @Hagbard: I'm Black vs Draganov in T260 - 3 nox in a row.
2021-12-07 23:03:15 Hagbard: 5 nox in a row, the chance for that is 6%. The patch ensures only that both players get at least an X in their 3rd move.
2021-12-08 03:50:05 Steiger: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWiKX6wE9fY
2021-12-08 05:34:10 Steiger: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yHYc6dOM-o
2021-12-08 07:17:50 Steiger: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osBPrU0k21s
2021-12-08 10:27:52 Steiger: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BphVtTKshiE
2021-12-08 11:25:04 xerxes: @Hagbard 8 out of 18 of my 'moves' in that game were nox, which put me at a disadvantage !
2021-12-08 11:46:39 Hagbard: Indeed. But it can be natural unluck, 6% can happen but seldom
2021-12-08 12:05:14 Draganov: I don't know why it happens... probably there is a bug with the dice. Big series of nox happened too often. Probably, we need to test the no nox rule for 3 throws in a row in the middle of the game too. I think the patch for no 3 nox on the third move works fine and made the game more playable. So, what do you think about this rule to be implemented for the whole game and not only for the beginning?
2021-12-08 12:12:13 Hagbard: Before the cases of nox series were simply unprobable, 18 nox in a row. But the dice since Dec. 3 give natural results. The 3rd move patch is a compensation to the players for not starting with three live men like in Sahkku.
2021-12-11 15:56:26 Draganov: Here is an impressive video of what real archery looked like in the past. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEG-ly9tQGk
2021-12-11 23:33:39 Hagbard: A follow-up to archery. Surprising points fx. that it's easier to hit a moving target like a coin in the air than a fixed target. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4mqt69VZ28
2021-12-13 16:33:27 ChaolAibhne: @Hagbard I'm wondering if there is a bug in Daldøs 3x16 or if I just haven't understood something. In several of my games as black I've gotten 'x' and a couple of numbers on my first turn. I used the 'x' to undal (turn) the piece nearest to the stern and I assumed that I could then use the two numbers on the other dice to move this piece up the middle row. But instead after making the undalling move the two other dice were no longer presented and a "no x" message was displayed.
2021-12-13 16:42:24 Hagbard: @ChaolAibhne, not a bug. The rule is that there are two dice, and you can use each dice to move one piece, but not move the same piece twice. OR you can use the SUM (third knob) to move one piece.
2021-12-13 16:57:03 ChaolAibhne: Thanks @Hagbard
2021-12-13 23:48:03 holidayinnes: As the umpire of the 2021 Copenhagen World Championship Tournament I agree with the computers finding and declare Draganov as the champion! Congratulations to Draganov and everyone participating to make it a fun tournament. Also many thanks to Hagbard for setting up this tournament as well as all the other tournaments past, present and future! Cheers! Holidayinnes
2021-12-14 10:13:19 Draganov: Here is a video of the traditional Christmas celebration in Bulgaria: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWnS7GTmNYw
2021-12-14 13:48:52 Hnefihunter: It's down to the song, I found out I understand Bulgarian without a translator. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qeKNVPn640A
2021-12-14 13:50:42 Hnefihunter: Nice song! ^^)
2021-12-14 14:02:03 Draganov: @Hnefihunter, it is normal that you understand the Bulgarian song since Russian and Bulgarian languages are similar and from one language family. I also understand Russian without learning it.
2021-12-14 14:55:04 Hagbard: I'm impressed by the Hristozova Koleda song, one of the best Christmas songs I've met. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eYF79pPbkk
2021-12-14 18:35:44 OdinHimself: Congratulations to Draganov, the first Bulgarian tafl world champion! He made my dream comes true! Skal!
2021-12-14 18:39:30 OdinHimself: @Hagbard: Please, hear this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzI3CSqGB94&ab_channel=RobbieFowler This is a an extract from an old Bulgarian movie, where the main character actor performs the song without dubbing. This is the real Bulgarian music.
2021-12-14 19:11:04 Hagbard: Special
2021-12-14 20:04:56 Hagbard: - and I thought that this one was advanced ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5iNGo95OTs
2021-12-15 07:00:14 Hagbard: Congratulations to World Champion 2021 Draganov! And a big thank you to the umpires Mike, Hamish, Mikkel and Adam! And a big thank you, too, to the 30 players who took part in the tournament with enthusiasm and high quality games all across the board!
2021-12-15 08:22:30 Hagbard: Anybody knows anything about Damian Walker? His website is suddenly unreachable.
2021-12-15 13:38:23 Hagbard: "Vechera na hutore bliz Dikan'ki" is removed by the uploader, but the whole movie is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrsqKUD3Be8
2021-12-15 16:56:52 floki: Congratulations Draganov, vive le Roi !
2021-12-15 18:53:13 Bogd Khan: Congratulations to Plamen for this brilliant tournament performance! We are proud of you! I can't believe how you lost only one game in this ruthless fighting system, against such powerful players! This is great.
2021-12-15 19:01:25 Bogd Khan: About the video with Lars Andersen, he is very good archer but have in mind he is not shooting with a real bow. Actually in the past archers used very heavy bows (except mongols and hunters of course)... The medieval archers needed very powerful bows for penetration the armours of the enemies. Lars is pretty accurate and fast but it's all because of the bow. He uses bow with maybe 20lbs power. The foot archers in Medieval used 40lbs and sometimes 60+lbs like English longbowmen
2021-12-16 09:01:11 Hagbard: Andersen tells more elaborately about it in the follow-up. About minute 22:20 he tells that he has very many bows, usually 50 lb, and when it comes to trick shooting it's often half strength that would be 25 lb. About minute 39 he demonstrates 3 fast arrows shot from a 53 lb bow. About minute 31 he explains that an archer would meet a range of different situations, not only fixed placement in a large formation of heavy long bows, but also ambushes on the route to the battle field, accompanying others as guard etc. (Which would require different types of bows and different skills of the archer.)
2021-12-16 15:58:05 OdinHimself: @Hagbard @ Umpires: Could you please show us the final results of the WTF tournament, I mean the ranking (maybe up to 10th place), so that I can post that to my FB tafl page?
2021-12-16 16:09:33 Hagbard: @OdinHimself. That is a good question. It's a property of Elimination Tournament formats that they do not find a ranking of the players. They only find the winner, and the Double Elimination possibly also a number two.
2021-12-16 18:12:39 OdinHimself: OK, thank you.
2021-12-18 19:04:34 Hagbard: A Championship Tournament evaluation: http://aagenielsen.dk/hnefataflforum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&p=1648#p1648
2021-12-22 08:34:33 Hagbard: Midwinter yesterday. Today the day is 3 seconds longer and the sun sets 15:45
2021-12-23 11:35:51 Hagbard: Still nobody knows about Damian Walker "cyningstan" ?
2021-12-23 23:27:43 ChaolAibhne: @Hagbard Are you asking about the fact that the http://tafl.cyningstan.com/ site isn't being found?
2021-12-23 23:30:59 ChaolAibhne: His personal site http://damian.cyningstan.org.uk/ is still up, with various means of contacting him
2021-12-23 23:38:56 Hagbard: Thank you. Walker used to post something from cyningstan.com daily on Facebook but the postings suddenly stop Dec. 6th.
2021-12-24 00:49:17 ChaolAibhne: He posted to Twitter more recently on 18 December
2021-12-30 17:38:24 ChaolAibhne: I corresponded with Damian Walker and his tafl.cyningstan.com site is now back
2021-12-30 17:45:14 Hagbard: Thanks! Was a bit worrying -
2022-01-01 20:05:15 Hagbard: The Historical Hnefatafl 13x13 tournament finished with #1 Jilles, #2 Holidayinnes, #3 L716 and Jrton80
2022-01-02 10:11:11 Hagbard: NB, The Single-Elimination test starts tomorrow evening. Registered by now: Jrton80, Steiger, ChaolAibhne, wulfram, rosk, paul7, Hagbard, Draganov, Dimetr, Thou, Alex Hnefatafl, beyn, Potapych, nika, Silversplitter, Asther-Kane
2022-01-07 21:47:37 Hagbard: I was asked about the titles FM, CM etc.: http://aagenielsen.dk/hnefataflforum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&p=1649#p1649
2022-01-10 09:19:55 Hagbard: The Sea battle tafl 11x11 tournament finished with #1 Draganov, #2 Holidayinnes, #3 Paul7
2022-01-14 14:32:55 Hagbard: The number of board game moves registered in the database is now 1.6 million!
2022-01-14 18:53:50 Hagbard: Brandubh 7x7 (Walker): http://www.cyningstan.com/data-download/395/brandub-leaflet Throne friendly to all. Corners hostile to all. King captured by 2 everywhere, even on and next to the throne.
2022-01-14 20:08:44 Hagbard: We have reasonably good experience with the "Irish Brandubh 2", balance +1.38. The rules in the Walker leaflet are not far from this so they should be tried.
2022-01-16 11:07:06 Colophonius: A Walker-Brandubh test tournament sounds good to me!
2022-01-16 14:07:43 Colophonius: Catching the king on his throne with just two attackers seems reasonable to me, since it probably would shift the balance a little further in black's favor. Perhaps a variant, where the king on the throne is caught by only two attackers, but where the throne is still hostile to all pieces could be tested, too - if that has not been suggested or done yet.
2022-01-16 14:16:41 paul7: I second Colophonius, a tournament would look fun.
2022-01-17 07:55:55 Hagbard: The Daldøs 3x16 tournament finished with #1 Jilles, #2 Draganov, #3 L716 and Xerxes
2022-01-17 14:21:37 Hagbard: NB, The Single-Elimination test Round 2 starts Jan. 20th. Move on: ChaolAibhne, Draganov, Dimetr, Potapych, Asther-Kane
2022-01-17 14:35:03 Hagbard: The Fetlar Hnefatafl 11x11 tournament finished with #1 Draganov, #2 Floki, #3 Docbullen
2022-01-18 06:19:18 Hagbard: The Tyr-w 11x11 tournament finished with #1 Beyn, #2 Jrton80 and Masterluke
2022-01-19 14:10:59 Draganov: @all, I would like to write a small (or not so small) book about the history of the World Tafl Championship. I am planning to analyze all of the games of the world champions for the years in which they won the title. I am not going to analyze the other games except some really nice games, that I think are worth to be mentioned. I would like to start from the title of CRUST 2011 (Fetlar variant) and going further to my title in 2021. It will be useful for the new players to improve their understanding on the game and for everyone to see how the playing skills and tactics evolved during the years. It will be tremendous work, so don't expect the games analyzes to be delivered soon. I will deliver them in parts in the big forum but even that way, it will take a long time. When all of the tournaments winner's games are analyzed, I will packed them in a book in PDF file and upload it for free downloading. I would also like to give some historical background on the tournament format and some info about the champions, so I will need the help of Hagbard and some other experienced players, who I am going to ask some questions about the tournaments. I don't want to include only my analyzes of the games, so I would be glad if some other players analyze the games of the championship winners and publish their analyzes in the forum. It will be good to see diferent opinions on some complex positions and see how diferent players understand them. It is not a problem if players with low rating publish their analyzes, so feel free to discuss the games. I am going to start from the 2011 championship but you can start from any other championship. I hope that this work will be beneficial for the tafl community.
2022-01-19 14:13:31 Draganov: Here is the link to the topic in the big forum. You can post your analyzes there. http://aagenielsen.dk/hnefataflforum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=141
2022-01-19 14:20:56 Draganov: I would also like to encourage the new players such as Asther-Kane, Potapych, Beyn, Silversplitter, Dimetr to use the big forum to introduce themselves and help us to get to know each other better. It is completely fine if they want to stay silence but I think it would be better for the community to get to know each other better. So, feel free to give us some basic info about yourself, how did you come to the tafl game and what do you think about the game as a whole.
2022-01-19 14:21:32 Draganov: Here is the topic for the members introductions: http://aagenielsen.dk/hnefataflforum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=53
2022-01-19 16:34:52 Draganov: Does anybody know where I can find a good online tafl simulator for simulating the games from the world championships? The replay for World Championship 2011 is not working and I will need to replay the games on my own. I found some sites where we can play against ourselves but the board was missing the notations on its sides.
2022-01-20 18:17:53 Hagbard: http://aagenielsen.dk/wtfturneringer.php
2022-01-24 07:33:37 Hagbard: Been most active week ever: 11400 board game moves.
2022-01-25 12:10:05 Hagbard: @Irish raven. Thank you! The bug and the move are removed.
2022-01-26 08:34:11 Hagbard: The Sea battle-204577-w 11x11 tournament finished with #1 Silversplitter and Beyn, #3 Docbullen The Daldøs 3x14 tournament finished with #1 Rosk, #2 Draganov and Chaolaibhne
2022-01-27 08:30:13 Hagbard: The Simple Tafl 11x11 tournament finished with #1 Jilles, #2 Paul7 and Потапыч
2022-01-27 14:45:14 Draganov: I posted in the big forum some statistics about comparison of the world tafl champions: http://aagenielsen.dk/hnefataflforum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=142
2022-01-27 14:45:52 Draganov: Feel free to comment the results and discuss it.
2022-01-28 00:05:40 Colophonius: A general question: Since I have not been involved in testing a new game variant yet, I just wanted to ask, how many games usually have to be played to get a first impression of it's balance. And once a certain balance is confirmed, will the players' ratings be changed retroactively?
2022-01-28 00:26:07 Hagbard: Until at least 10 wins on both sides, to get some accuracy. When a balance is confirmed, the main rating list on the tafl_humans.php is not changed. But the ratings on the separate_ratings.php are, because they are calculated anew at every call.
2022-01-28 09:07:10 Hagbard: The Daldøs 3x12 tournament finished with #1 Holidayinnes and Xerxes, #3 Jilles
2022-01-28 19:51:12 xerxes: @Hagbard. I am still unconvinced that the 'nox' throws are random. For example, in T282 (Daldos 3/14) at the time of typing 5 playetrs have started, ie 20 games, so 40 starts. 11 of those starts (ie 27.5% have been 2 nox in a row. Jilles has been particularly unlucky with 5 out of 8 starts, Dragonov and I have had 3 each. However, what really convinces me that they are not random is that I have had 6 out of my first 7 throws as nox, and in another 7 out of 8 (ie nox, nox, move, nox, nox, nox, nox, nox). That kind of sequence means you are out of the game before you even start.
2022-01-28 22:32:42 Hagbard: Convincing examples ... Dice changed.
2022-01-31 23:25:08 Hagbard: The Daldøs 3x14 tournament finished with #1 Holidayinnes, #2 Jilles, Hagbard, Xerxes and Rosk
2022-02-01 13:09:10 Hagbard: New in gallery: photo series from the Board Games Festival Larix in Moscow a couple of days ago!
2022-02-01 17:29:32 Draganov: It is really nice that tafl was presented in the Board Games Festival. Dimetr probably can tell us more about it. What was the interest of the people about the tafl game? Who won the tournament and what are the future opportunities to popularize the game in Russia?
2022-02-01 19:22:45 Dimetr: Good evening my friends! Yes, last sunday we played with Paul 7 and over friends at festival. It was first time plaing Tafl at Larix (wery big Moscow festival with Go Checkers, and another games). Hnefatafl is bright game, and many people asked what it is? We gave them a presentation (Copenhagen rules) and game sets, and they tried to play. It was many children who tried to play.
2022-02-01 20:23:43 Dimetr: About popularize the game. Yes,we trying to do it. Our friend Denis Tarkov (master of Go and Shogi) like Tafl too, and he knows much board gamers, with whom we can join. Our friend Dmitrii Pashkov make good Tafl sets https://ethnicgames.com, and he has a lot of followers on social networks. We have our forum about historical games, etc. I hope that new players will join this site soon
2022-02-02 09:06:09 Hagbard: The Saami Cuhkka 5x5 tournament finished with #1 Rosk, #2 Holidayinnes and Jrton80
2022-02-02 10:40:20 Colophonius: Man, I really like the "Larix" Festival board design. What a genius idea to take wooden shields as pieces, it looks beautiful! So simple, yet so charming - I'll have to build something like this on my own, so far I had no problems with creating boards and using painted wooden pegs as pieces, but this is something nicer!
2022-02-02 10:51:53 Draganov: @Hagbard, why Tawlbwrdd Lewis cross 11x11 (bal. -1.12) has not been played since 2016? It seems to be well-balanced and even better balanced than the Historical Welsh Tawlbwrdd. Are there any technical problems with this variant or other reason to be abandoned for 6 years?
2022-02-02 11:31:25 Hagbard: Dimetr asked for it to be tried again. This setup works both with and without a throne. However, without a throne this is the only choice, while there are two good setups with a throne (using the 10 combinations of "Summary on the Welsh Tawlbwrdd"). So this setup was used for the no-throne and the other one for the with-throne. But I look forward to try it again.
2022-02-02 18:24:26 Hagbard: There is an Alex Hnefatafl/jilles Copenhagen game with left only 11 blacks, 1 white and the king, the game lasted 148 moves so far. Looks like rule 10 could be relevant: "If it is not possible to end the game, fx. because both sides have too few pieces left, it is a draw." So the game ends if both players offer a draw.
2022-02-02 22:40:16 Draganov: @Hagbard, this is really an interesting issue about rule 10. Imagine if this situation happened on the world championship or even on the final deciding the world champion. Then, one of the sides will never agree to a draw. From a technical point of view, I think in such a position, the blacks will manage to force the whites to lose due to repetition. However, it will be a long and exhausting game. It could prolong the championship with months. So, for such situations, I proposed some months ago, to implement a rule that both sides have a certain amount of moves to win the game like in chess. For example, if there are less than 15 pieces left on the board plus the king, both sides will have 50 moves to finish the game and if the game is not finished, it should be declared automatically by the engine as a draw.
2022-02-02 23:35:02 Hagbard: In a Champ.Tourn. there would be complaints to the umpire, who then would judge the game to stop.
2022-02-02 23:36:21 Hagbard: About the Single Elimination test tournament: Elimination criteria seem to have to be changed, otherwise practically all players are eliminated and too early. This would work better: In Round 1 players with 1 loss are eliminated, this is unchanged. However, in Round 2 players start with a clean table, and again players with 1 loss are eliminated. This could prevent that players are eliminated too early.
2022-02-03 14:00:33 Draganov: @Hagbard, the solution with the umpire is good but in my opinion, there are some really difficult positions to judge. In such complicated positions, the umpire should allow the game to continue for a certain amount of moves (20, 50 on his decision). If we implement a programatical solution, we could have a situation in which the move 50 is finished and the position is completelly won (for example the king reached the square next to the corner) but the engine declares the game as a draw. In such situations when the engine declares the game as a draw but it is absolutelly obvious that one of the side is winning without any possible way to stop it, the umpire should declare such a game as a win for the winning side.
2022-02-03 14:01:59 Draganov: However, all of this situations are just hypothetical and probably will never happened in a real play, but who knows, we must be sure that we have a working solution for even such imaginary situations.
2022-02-03 15:28:05 Colophonius: I just calculated the balance of the current 69 Brandubh 7x7 Walker-games, which all will be finished soon. 38 wins for white and presumably 31 wins for black. If I didn't make a mistake, the new balance is now 1,225 - that's way better than the Brandubh 2 balance!
2022-02-03 17:08:12 paul7: I can see 30 wins for white and 26 for black of 56 (=7x8) total, which would give even better 1.15 balance. But I think 56 games is still not enough to be sure of the game's balance, it can change drastically over time. A fun variant though, I certainly enjoyed the tournament.
2022-02-03 19:02:14 Hagbard: The Brandubh 7x7 (Walker) tournament finished with #1 Hnefihunter and Paul7, #3 Irish raven and Colophonius
2022-02-03 19:38:32 Hagbard: The Brandubh 7x7 (Walker) balance was measured to +1.27 from 69 games, thank you for testing it!!
2022-02-03 21:06:22 Dimetr: Hello! Thron is dengerous at Tawlbw Lewis Cross?
2022-02-03 21:18:39 Hagbard: Yes, it is a normal Tawlbwrdd, just different setup of pieces. Hostile throne, and normal protection of the king in center.
2022-02-04 11:19:15 Hagbard: NB The Large Forum is temporarily opened for new registering.
2022-02-04 14:48:06 Hagbard: The Saami Sáhkku 3x15 tournament finished with #1 Rosk, #2 Jilles and Cacreal The Copenhagen Hnefatafl 11x11 tournament finished with #1 Alex hnefatafl, #2 Draganov, #3 Потапыч
2022-02-04 14:59:14 MasterLuke: Right now, I have this conversation with an opponent in the Philippe Schober Hnefatalf app, regarding a 'defintive' or 'standard' Tyr game variant. This is my conclusion, see text below: 'So far, the game we know as 'Simple Tyr' - be it on 11x11 or 15x15 board - is the most homogeneous and balanced game and we might call this the 'standard' Tyr variant. There is also 'Tyr' (without the Simple prefix) which includes jumping commanders. It's only 2 years we're trying out different possibilities... which is nothing compared to the 1500 years lifespan of Tafl. I think, in time 'Tyr' will fade away and 'Simple Tyr' will become 'Tyr'. It's an ongoing process, really.' Somebody here got remarks or opinions otherwise?
2022-02-04 16:31:07 paul7: @Hagbard: Rosk noticed it in a game of Hex against me, and I can reproduce the following behaviour, which I believe is a glitch: If you place a piece in the lower left corner of the Hex board, then you can place a second piece the same turn at the neighbouring hexagon towards the upper right. The software then accepts the turn with both pieces placed. It would be great if you could look into this. Thanks!
2022-02-05 09:14:49 Hagbard: Thank you!
2022-02-06 10:29:49 Colophonius: @Hagbard: I know it's probably much asked, but is there the possibility of creating a searching tool for certain board positions on this site? Something where you could choose the game and type in some moves to study these particular lines. That would make the vast archive more useable.
2022-02-06 11:58:55 Colophonius: But such a tool could also be misused and would make Hnefatafl probably as theory-based as chess.
2022-02-06 20:39:02 Hagbard: That would be difficult
2022-02-06 21:17:01 Colophonius: I thought so, never mind! It's not necessary, just popped up in my head.
2022-02-07 21:13:55 Dimetr: Hello! The Tablut tournament finished with 13 wins for white and 19 for black. I love Tablut. But the balance is bad Maybe we can try play Tablut with white's first move? (Linnaeus did not say who goes first) And find the right game plan for white? (Maybe next week, or some later?)
2022-02-07 21:36:55 Hagbard: Of course, tournament starts in 3 days.
2022-02-07 21:53:46 Hagbard: NB, The Single-Elimination test Round 3 starts Feb. 10th. Move on: Draganov, Dimetr, Asther-Kane. The round will be a Round Robin of 3.
2022-02-07 22:39:18 Draganov: @Hagbard, why I move to round 3? I lost 2 games (one in round 1 and one in round 2) in the tournament and should be eliminated.
2022-02-07 22:44:22 Dimetr: Maybe Potapych move on?
2022-02-07 22:51:44 Dimetr: I'm afraid Asther-kane might be offline, but I try to tell him about round 3 at Philippe app
2022-02-07 22:54:25 Hagbard: It is a test tournament. From the first criteria Draganov was eliminated in Round 2. There was a great risk that Dimetr could be eliminated also. Left only Asther-kane. Now the test criteria are that a round starts with losses cleared. So Draganov lost only 0.5 in Round 2 and proceeds to Round 3. Potapych, however, lost 2 games in Round 2 and was eliminated.
2022-02-07 23:02:51 Draganov: OK, I got it. Let's dance in the round 3.
2022-02-08 12:14:56 ChaolAibhne: @Hagbard: Would it be possible to have the list of a player's active games ordered by soonest timeout?
2022-02-08 17:12:38 Hagbard: The Welsh Tawlbwrdd tournament finished with #1 Draganov, #2 Jilles, #3 Потапыч and L716
2022-02-08 21:24:15 Hagbard: It would not be easy.
2022-02-10 02:01:04 ChaolAibhne: @Hagbard Has Hex now been played often enough to be given a balance rating?
2022-02-10 07:32:44 Hagbard: Yes balance -1.18 Hex is not counted in on the main rating list, because it's a non-tafl game. But players' Hex ratings are on the separate ratings list. Top players are Chaolaibhne, Casshern, Bogd Khan and Holidayinnes.
2022-02-10 08:22:21 MasterLuke: The historical 11x11 game variants (Tawlbwrdd and Simple Tafl) are among the most balanced Tafl games, especially with Lewis Cross set-up. I noticed the upcoming Tawlbwrdd T diamond tournament, but I don't see it listed in the balance overview. Never been played before, so no known balance?
2022-02-10 08:33:28 Hagbard: "Tawlbwrdd T diamond 11x11" was earlier measured to -1.57, but the measurement is uncertain. All games: -1.16, paired games -1.37, all strong games -1.58, all strong games paired -2.25, in total -1.57 A balance measurement is more reliable when all those numbers are about the same. So it would be interesting to have one more look at Tawlbwrdd T diamond 11x11.
2022-02-10 13:37:16 Draganov: Regarding the balance of some variants, I am not sure if the balance of Welsh Tawlbwrdd is as good as you thought or the old stats revealed. I think nowadays the players are much better regarding this variant compared to players in the past. The nowadays players are playing very well with the black pieces and it is very difficult to win a game with the whites on top level. See for example the last Welsh Tawlbwrdd tournament. The games between the top finishers (me, Jilles, L716 and Potapych) is 10 black wins against only 2 white wins. The balance in the games between us is -5 (black has 5 times the chance of winning than white) if I calucalted it correctly. If we take for instance the result of the top 4 finishers in all games that they played in the tournament the result is 38 black wins against only 6 white wins and the balance is -6.33 which is even worse.
2022-02-10 16:11:34 Draganov: @Hagbard, in my Daldos game against Rosk, I had 8 nox out of 9 throws. I had 6 nox in a row.
2022-02-10 16:13:19 Draganov: It seems than when someone receive an X in the beginning and then it is hit, he could never be able to receive another X and activate another piece.
2022-02-10 17:04:25 Draganov: @Hagbard, could you check the long game between Alex Hnefatafl and Jilles. It seems that there is a bug and the repetition rule occure only if the same moves are repeated three times in a row. The rule should be if the same position occured three times in the game and not if the position occured after last three moves are repeated. Here are some details from Wikipedia stating the FIDE rule regarding chess: 'The relevant rules in the FIDE laws of chess are summarized as:[3] The game is a draw if a position occurs (at least) three times during the game. (Intervening moves do not matter.) It must be claimed by the player with the turn to move. The claim is made: (a) If the position is about to appear for the third time, the player making the claim first writes their move on their scoresheet and notifies the arbiter that they intend to make this move. or (b) If the position has just appeared for the third time, the player with the move can claim the draw. Although a threefold repetition usually occurs after consecutive moves, there is no requirement that the moves be consecutive for a claim to be valid.' In chess threefold repetition means a draw but in tafl means a victory for the blacks except in Fetlar where it is a draw.
2022-02-10 17:37:28 Hagbard: About the Daldøs 3x12 Rosk/Draganov tourn. 288 game. Black has 6 nox in a row. The risk for this is (3/4 * 3/4) **6 = 3%. We do many Daldøs/Sahkku games, and such an unfortunate case can actually happen naturally every 32nd game on average. (Actually, if it's calculated more strictly, the result is probably more often than this)
2022-02-10 19:39:37 Hagbard: About the Alex Hnefatafl/jilles game, yeah this is an extreme game -
2022-02-10 20:12:00 MasterLuke: Hi, folks! In the near future the 'regular' Tyr game variants (with jumping commanders) will be called 'Old Tyr' and classified for the archives... This I asked Hagbard and we agreed upon it, because too few people play it. The game variant we now call 'Simple Tyr' (without commanders) is besides more balanced also way more popular and will be called just 'Tyr' and replace current 'Tyr'. In the meantime, Hagbard and I will test a new set up on a 13x13 format (with the Simple Tyr moniker for now).
2022-02-10 21:21:42 Draganov: @Hagbard, what is the reason some of the variants to be inactive. Is there any technical issue if many variants are available for playing? I think there are some variants in the archive which are worthy to be tested again.
2022-02-10 21:29:20 Hagbard: I think you are right.
2022-02-10 23:38:01 Draganov: I think some variants with very bad balance could be open for playing as not rated and used just for education purposes of the new players or just for testing of new tactics. Even if a variant is not popular at the moment, it can being some fun of someone to play it. So, if there is no technical issues, I would be glad and grateful to see as many variants available as possible.
2022-02-10 23:56:52 Draganov: You can place some bad balanced variants in another section of the invitation page and soecify that these variants are not well balanced and the games are not rated. If some of these variants improve their balance over the time, they could be placed in a more visible place on the game invitation page.
2022-02-11 07:19:55 MasterLuke: @Draganov: That's good reasoning. For newbies as well as more experienced players, it would be great to choose from a more 'streamlined' (ie simplified) game range. Hence my decision, as creator of these variants, to rename / replace Tyr and simple Tyr. Sometimes you have to kill your darlings... :) Later on, I'll alter the rules sheet.
2022-02-11 12:59:01 ChaolAibhne: I agree with the idea of 'hiding' variants with poor balance, but I would still leave them as rated. One purpose they can serve is to allow a stronger and a weaker player to play on more even terms if the weaker player takes the favoured side.
2022-02-11 13:41:39 Draganov: I agree that the unbalanced variants could be used as handicap matches between a stronger and a weaker opponent. It will give us the chance to enjoy playing against everyone. However, I think these variants should be not rated because we could have a situation in which some players are in the top of the rating list only because they are playing unbalanced variants. It is just not good for the eye, to see some weak players in the top of the rating list because of that. Similar situation occured in the mobile app, where the best rated player is someone who plays only in his custom made unbalanced variant. I think the best option is to have as many variants as possible in the 'Play tafl against humans' page but the unbalanced could be placed under a link called 'Even more variants' or something similar. We need some information in this page that these variants are not well balanced and they are not rated. However, they could be rated in the separate rating list.
2022-02-11 14:41:46 Draganov: In my opinion when a variant balance is about 1.70-1.80 it is very likely that this variant might be well-balanced. I think the blacks have a lot of uncovered resources to defend. Moreover, the nowadays players are playing better with the blacks than the players in the past. I will list some of the variants that I think it would be worthy to test them again. Some of these variants were lastly played about 7-10 years ago.
2022-02-11 14:42:38 Draganov: These are the variants that I think would be good to test again: Foteviken tablut 9x9 (bal. 1.63) Sea battle T diamond 11x11 (bal. -1.28) Old Hnefatafl 9x9 (bal. 2.55) History Craft Hnefatafl 11x11 (bal. 1.71) ???? Sea battle 9x9 (Imperial Contest) (bal. 1.72) David Brown Hnefatafl 11x11 (unarmed king) (bal. 1.17) Copenhagen Hnefatafl 13x13 (bal. 0) Tablut 19x19 (bal. 0) Tawlbwrdd Lewis diamond 11x11 (bal. 1.89) Sea battle Lewis diamond 11x11 (bal. 1.67) Alea Evangelii 19x19 (tablut corner) (bal. 0) Foteviken tablut 11x11 (bal. 1) Sea battle circle 9x9 (bal. 1.44) Unst Alea Evangelii 19x19 (bal. -1.09) Copenhagen Hnefatafl Bell 11x11 (bal. 2.21) Tablut 13x13 (modif. Parlett) (bal. 0) Sea battle-2542 9x9 (bal. 1.71) Sea battle-1606 9x9 (bal. 0) Tyr 9x9 (bal. 2)
2022-02-11 14:50:45 Draganov: Especially Copenhagen Hnefatafl Bell 11x11 (bal. 2.21) could be very interesting to be tried. I don't think the whites would be in such a huge favour with the Bell set up. So even if the balance is little bit higher than 2 in favour of the whites, it still could be well-balanced.
2022-02-11 15:30:46 ChaolAibhne: I think I mentioned some time ago that one of the things that drew me to Tafl (besides its simplicitly, a property it shares with a former favourite, Go), was the fact that by playing I was effectively contributing to a reconstructive archaeology project. That is, our knowledge of the rules of historical Tafl variants ranges from almost complete for Tablut, less so for Tawlbwrdd, through to mostly speculation for Brandubh; but for none of them do we have available records about strategy. By playing the historical variants we might rediscover strategies that were known to players back then. Who knows, we might even find that some of these are encoded in Norse sagas and poems. And for the historical variants where the rules are less certain, trying different subvariants helps us take an informed view of what was actually played. With that in mind, might we want to more intentionally promote the historical variants in the curated list that we are contemplating and in the choice of tournaments that we run?
2022-02-11 18:32:21 Hagbard: The Hex 11x11 tournament finished with #1 Chaolaibhne, #2 Holidayinnes, #3 Paul7
2022-02-12 08:23:01 Hagbard: Tourn. 289 is the Saami Tablut 9x9 with white moves first.
2022-02-12 15:27:35 Draganov: @Hagbard, I watched some of your Tablut games in the archive and think you would be a very competitive player. Would you like to join this tournament? Are you going to play in some other tournaments beside Daldos? Would be good to see you being more actively playing.
2022-02-12 16:55:04 Draganov: @Hagbard, could you open Copenhagen Hnefatafl Bell 11x11 (bal. 2.21) for testing. I would like to play some games in it to see if the balance is so bad. I think it should even be in favour of the blacks.
2022-02-13 00:38:25 Fenric7: Black pieces matter.
2022-02-13 07:58:05 Dimetr: Thanks for starting tournament 289 - Tablut White first. Maybe we find the right game plan for white
2022-02-13 15:57:43 Hagbard: New in gallery: manufactoring Tyr pieces.
2022-02-13 16:54:22 OdinHimself: @Hagbard: Very good indeed!
2022-02-13 22:18:32 sqAree: I just wanna mention that "shortest game length" is a terrible criteria to decide draws (or anything at all, in the first place). Why do we still have something like that in the tournament rules?
2022-02-13 22:27:48 Hagbard: The shortest game length tells which of the players had the best play in his losing game A win with the longest game length means that your opponent gave the strongest resistance and was the hardest to beat, he played the losing color best. Fx. Casshern who is a strong player, won a game with 38 moves against 142 of his opponent, and another with 64 moves against 103 of his opponent.
2022-02-13 23:11:33 sqAree: Once the whites are completely surrounded, hardly anything that happens in the game indicates how strong the resistance is, or the like. I've always found it honestly disrespectful when players keep playing for 200 moves accomplishing nothing until the game is over, if it wasn't for that tournament rule. It's a weakness in the rules, because it incentivises those super long boring dull games where nothing happens in the end. Despite, the length of a game doesn't directly corresponds to the level of resistence, at least not in a way that aligns with what I feel should be the spirit of a strategic board game; sometimes moves that lose sooner than later if the opponent responds correctly have more potential to fool or outplay the opponent and lead to a comeback than a move that just delay the inevitable. tl;dr: The criteria "longest game" doesn't imply "strongest resistance", and even beside that, it leads to boring gameplay and wastes everyone's time.
2022-02-13 23:13:20 sqAree: Yeah it's subjective, what I said might be just me, but I can hardly believe many people wouldn't agree here tbh.
2022-02-13 23:26:59 Hagbard: With this criteria, Casshern could've resigned after 50 and 80 moves. But most often, I suppose, a long game continues because the opponent could make mistakes and turn a lost game into a winning game.
2022-02-14 12:00:33 Draganov: @all, I opened a new set of Copenhagen Hnefatafl Bell 11x11. I am ready right now to play 5 matches (10 games in total) against 5 different opponents. So, everyone is welcome to join and help me to test this variant. The balance was previously estimated to 2.21 in favour of the whites, however, I am not sure if the whites have better chances in this variant.
2022-02-14 20:31:44 sqAree: Haven't looked into those specific games you mentioned, but very often, no, the game doesn't continue bc there could be mistakes, because usually the enemy is already completely surrounded. We already have a rule that acknowledges this, namely the rule that after completely surrounding the enemy and covering the edge too, it is automatically lost. There are so many games where the edge isn't covered, but the only remaining edge squares are not enough to build an edge fort at all, in that case the game is exactly as hopeless as the complete encirclement position. Of course there are plenty other examples where playing on also just doesn't give any chances. When someone wants to keep fighting for a draw or a win, sure, why not, however the rules shouldn't incentivise prolonging games for nothing. Another point is that tournament rules (means rules outside of the game itself) shouldn't dictate ingame strategy too much (this can't be prevented entirely, but let's still try?).
2022-02-14 21:49:53 Hagbard: I didn't inspect the two games either, but anything longer than 38 and 64 moves would be a loss by the game length criterium, so no point in continuing only for this reason. - "... tournament rules (means rules outside of the game itself) shouldn't dictate ingame strategy too much (this can't be prevented entirely, but let's still try?)." Wise point. But some criteria are needed. Football championships end in penalty kick competitions, that we cannot do in internet board games -
2022-02-15 10:33:48 Draganov: I think when it comes to playing only 2 games, the rule for game length is not sufficient. It is just too little criteria to determine the winner and the better player from the match. For example, there was huge controversion about the FIFA away goals rule in Football. Now, FIFA decided to abolish it. I proposed players to play more than 2 games in their matches. For example, if we have double eliminaion, every player will face 2 opponents with higher rating and 2 opponents with lower rating. It will mean that a single player is playing 8 games in total in the round. If we convert this to a simple single elimination but increase the number of played games, we can have a round in which the player is facing only one opponent but plays 8 games against him. Then, in case of a tie (4:4) the game length criteria will have more sense because it is based on the shortest game based on 4 games and not only based on just one single game. When it is based on one single game, we could have a problem when player timed-out early in one of the game and won the other. In the final of 2020 world championship, I lost to Bogd Khan with the whites and won a short victory with the blacks because Bogd Khan timed out in uncertain position. If we played in an elimination match, he should have been eliminated because my timing-out victory was shorter than his victory. However, in 2020 I was clearly weaker than him. Some players might want to surprise their opponent by playing risky tactics or openings. However, if they know that their game length could have so much weight as a criteria, they will never try to play risk. Moreover, how we could decide a winner between two almost equal wins? Imagine player A wins in 100 moves and player B wins in 101 moves. Can we clearly say that player A is the better one? It is just chance and fortune. Imagine a different situation, both players A and B are in lost positions in their respective games with the whites. Player A resigned on move 100 and player
2022-02-15 10:37:14 Draganov: Imagine a different situation, both players A and B are in lost positions in their respective games with the whites. Player A resigned on move 100 and player B resigned on move 101 because he tought that if he survived 1 move more than his opponent, he would have been the winner. However, the umpire said that the positions when both players resigned were not finished, so we needed to add the additional moves in order to complete them and see which game is shorter. The umpire added additional moves on his decision and decided that Player A is the winner because his game would have finished on move 140 and the game of player B would have finished on move 142. However, player B complained that the umpire hadn't played the best possible moves and the game on his estimation would have finished on move 138. It will be really confusing situation.
2022-02-15 21:16:03 Dimetr: Hagbard, good evening! I can't write messages in private chat during the game it worked before, but now it doesn't work. Why?
2022-02-15 22:38:10 Hagbard: It must work
2022-02-17 16:31:25 Draganov: @Hagbard, thank you for making Copenhagen Bell the next tournament to test. I strongly encourage the players to join and test it. I have already played couple of games and found it out to be well-balanced and interesting. I still cannot decide which side is better.
2022-02-17 17:00:36 Hagbard: The Daldøs 3x12 tournament finished with #1 Jilles, #2 Rosk, #3 Draganov
2022-02-18 08:33:34 Hagbard: The Tyr 15x15 tournament finished with #1 Jilles and Jrton80, #3 Masterluke
2022-02-18 09:49:56 paul7: It was a nice idea to have more than one tournament per week. It's a pleasure to see how much is going on lately. I'm a bit overwhelmed with the number of ongoing games from time to time, apologies to my opponents if I'm playing slowly. But the tournaments offered are just too interesting to skip them :)
2022-02-18 09:55:32 Draganov: Yes, it is a true massacre in each tournament. Many players are participating and giving their best. This is good for the development of the game. I think I overestimated my playing ability and now I am involved in 51 games. So, probably I have bitten more than i can chew. But anyway, it is fun and as Paul said, the tournaments are too interesting to skip them.
2022-02-18 09:58:11 Draganov: @Hagbard, can you say if you know what is the biggest activety in the website. I mean, what is the maximum total amount of games played in each variant in a moment? Can you also say what is the record of open games played by one single player?
2022-02-18 11:25:04 Hagbard: As a measure for activity, the number of overall game moves is counted every week. The record is 11385 game moves in the week up to Jan. 17th 2022. Before this the records were 11203 game moves in the week Jan. 25th 2021, and 9946 games moves in the week April 6th 2020. I guess that 51 ongoing games for a player is a record. Many years ago Crust had around 25 ongoing games for a period and that was a high record at that time ... A small curiosity: The impact of that damn virus has shown everywhere in the world in small and big things for two years. On this site the effect could be seen, too, as the game activity exploded coinciding with the worldwide lockdown 2020.
2022-02-21 10:23:49 Hagbard: New in gallery: photo series from Board Games Day in Zealand, Denmark, two days ago.
2022-02-21 17:07:35 Steiger: @Hagbard: glad to see the hnefatafl set I made in action! Thank you!
2022-02-22 08:10:06 Hagbard: The Sea battle tafl 15x15 tournament finished with #1 Draganov, #2 Xerxes, #3 Beyn
2022-02-23 07:50:16 Hagbard: Tyr 13x13 game balance: -1.77 Tawlbwrdd Lewis cross 11x11 game balance: -1.18 Saami Tablut-w game balance: -1.22
2022-02-24 22:02:41 Draganov: @all I strongly encourage you to join the Copenhagen Bell tournament and to test it. I played several games in it and found it out to be very well-balanced. This variant is much more dynamical than the standard Copenhagen and is very interesting for playing. I think it would be impossible to have boring games in it.
2022-02-26 23:05:14 ChaolAibhne: To the single participant in Tournament 295 (Tawlbwrdd Lewis diamond): I have too many matches at the moment to join now, but if you stick around I will join you in a two or three days when things are quieter.
2022-02-28 15:48:25 Draganov: Copenhagen Hnefatafl Bell 11x11 (bal. 1.73) has improved its balance significantly in the last month. One month ago, the balance was 2.21. I think its real balance is even in favour of the blacks. So, it would be interesting to see how its balance will be changed after the tournament.
2022-02-28 17:21:03 floki: @all : I disagree, I think the balance is always in favour of Draganov 😜 !
2022-02-28 17:31:23 Hagbard: I'm somewhat struck by silence at the time being, but I can't help commenting this one. There is a phenomenon which I call the Millar effect: No matter which rules we tested, Millar would every time win all his games as white and as black, so any rules would come out appearingly perfectly balanced!
2022-02-28 17:59:11 Draganov: I think would not be able to improve the balance of Old Hnefatafl, Tablut or some other variants that I consider terribly unbalanced. This Copenhagen Bell would be proved as balanced even if we don't calculate my games.
2022-03-01 14:13:24 Draganov: Tawlbwrdd Lewis cross 11x11 (bal. -1.18) seems to be very well-balanced. It seems impossible to say who will be the winner when two top players are playing against each other.
2022-03-01 14:38:44 paul7: Tawlbwrdd T diamond, on the other hand, seems to favour the defenders heavily. I guess it makes sense as the most of the board sides are already blocked by the defenders with this setup/
2022-03-01 20:31:31 Dimetr: The balance of Tawlbwrdd Lewis cross 11x11 is well. Maybe white is even a little better, if they played correctly and quickly. And Throne makes the game more interesting and historical (compared to Simple Tafl)
2022-03-09 10:40:02 Draganov: @Hagbard, what is the formula that you used to measure the game balance?
2022-03-09 21:41:38 Hagbard: It is explained at the bottom of http://aagenielsen.dk/tafl_balances.php
2022-03-12 19:45:30 Draganov: @Hagbard, could you correct the final standings for Historical Hnefatafl 9x9 (Saami Tablut-w) because right now, it shows that I won the tournament but the truth is that Chaolaibhne was the winner since Beyn timed-out early in almost all of his games and his games against Chaolaibhne were not counted.
2022-03-14 13:15:50 ChaolAibhne: @Draganov That is gracious of you, thank you
2022-03-14 13:19:34 ChaolAibhne: Besides feeling better balanced, having white start first in Tablut-W seems more natural. When I briefly outlined the idea of Tafl to various people who don't play and asked them who they would expect would play first, every one said the escapers.
2022-03-14 20:36:55 MasterLuke: I wonder if the Historical Hnefatafl game variant on a 15x15 format would be more balanced if it had a starting position similar to bell diamond 11x11 Whelsh Twlbrrd, instead of the Nielsen set-up. Just wondering...
2022-03-15 19:23:21 Draganov: @MasterLuke, I think Historical Hnefatafl 15x15 will be strongly in favour of the blacks. It would be interesting to play this variant as an unbalanced handicap variant that can be used between players with big rating difference. However, I don't think it would be playable between players in equal strength.
2022-03-15 19:33:36 Draganov: Copenhagen Hnefatafl Bell tournament finished with balance +1.50 which means it is slightly more unbalanced than Fetlar and the standard Copenhagen. However, the players in the tournament didn't have much experience with this variant. So, I think its balance could be even better than the standard Copenhagen. I managed to win with both colors against such strong players as Jilles, Alex Hnefatafl, Cacreal and Potapych. At least, I think it is absolutely playable variant. In my honest opinion, this variant represents the principle of the Copenhagen Hnefatafl in a better way than the standard Copenhagen variant. It is more dynamic and bloody and the game length is shorter. The shieldwall and the exit fort, which are typical Copenhagen weapons for the whites, are easier to implement and used in the Bell variant. Moreover, the blacks really need to learn how to block the corners properly and many typical blockade positions occured. Finally, in my opinion, this variant offers more strategical plans for both colors and the opening repertoire is bigger than the standard Copenhagen.
2022-03-17 18:14:32 Draganov: @Hagbard, are there any historical or archaeological evidance that a dice was used in tafl?
2022-03-17 18:33:38 Hagbard: To my knowledge not really. Some in the English speaking world have translated "Tawlbwrdd" into "throw board" meaning dice throwing. But to Scandinavians the word "Tawlbwrdd" is immediately recognizable as the Scandinavian word "Tavlbord" = game board.
2022-03-17 20:15:51 MasterLuke: @Draganov and Hagbard: Let's hope not! If by any chance some evidence shows up proving a dice WAS used, this would spoil the game for me. I hate games where winning or losing depends on pure luck...
2022-03-17 22:09:42 xerxes: @MasterLuke: I have some sympathy with that view, but there are dice games that include a significant amount of skill, eg Backgammon
2022-03-18 16:52:11 Steiger: @Draganov: From the Saga of Hervor and Heidrek: Then Gestumblindi said: “What beast is that that butchers wealth, is circled outside with iron? Eight horns it has but a head never and much hazard hangs upon it. King Heidrek guess my riddle.” “That’s the die in hnettafl, also called the cub. Its horns are its corners.”
2022-03-30 10:01:18 Draganov: @Hagbard, in my latest Copenhagen Bell game against Rosk, we found out that the repetition rule is not working fine. Rosk had a big fake exit fort and could make moves inside of it. The repetition rule seems to work only when the same position occured three times in a row. Rosk could alternate moves between his pieces inside the fake fort and the repetiotion rule didn't have impact on him. The similar situation occured in the longest game between Alex and Jilles. Would it be difficult to implement a repetition rule that is applied when the position occured for the third times with no requirement that the moves be consecutive? We need when the position occured for the third times, then the whites lose the game immediately.
2022-03-30 19:15:36 Hagbard: Interesting cases. In a tournament the umpire would rule that black won. In a real-life game perhaps the players would agree to call it a draw. The computer keeps an eye on the white constellation. When the same white constellation of pieces occurs a third time, it is a loss by repetition.
2022-04-02 17:04:58 Dimetr: Hagbard hello! You know Robert ap Ifan’s manuscript, about Tawlbwrdd (Peniarth Manuscript 158). Linnaeus Diary was published long time ago But it’s still not possible to see Robert ap Ifan’s manuscript Maybe you (as the head of World Tafl federation) will write to The National Library of Wales? Could they send the scan? This email, from their website: enquiry(at)llgc.org.uk I saw some fragments of Tawlbwrdd, at Alessandro Arzani website https://abbasagraphicus.wordpress.com/ But he wrote, that he cannot reproduce the entire image, because the Library of Wales, didn’t give a permission to do it
2022-04-04 08:24:22 Hagbard: I've put a post in the large forum.
2022-04-14 13:45:56 Hagbard: @Steiger, thank you for the photo series from Daldøs tournament March 27th! I discovered them only now, they're in the gallery. The photos show that you used Daldøs 3*12 boards for the tournament, but also have a Daldøs 3*16 board for show.
2022-04-15 12:43:00 rosk: Accidentally found an interesting version of the game Daldosa https://glukkazan.github.io/races/daldosa.htm
2022-04-16 07:43:46 Steiger: @Hagbard, These photos are from Dmitry Pashkov and Dimeter. I was not there.
2022-04-21 15:34:40 Draganov: @Hagbard, why we are going to play Tawlbwrdd Lewis cross 11x11 and Historical Hnefatafl 11x11 again? We had tournaments in these variants in the beginning of the year. We also recently had another Fetlar, Old and Copenhagen tournaments.
2022-04-21 16:42:53 Hagbard: Three tournaments at a time, the circulation is faster than before.
2022-04-21 17:56:29 Draganov: @Hagbard, after we retested Copenhagen Hnefatafl Bell 11x11 the balance was improved from 2.21 to 1.59 and I am sure, that it will be even better if we played it more often. I would like to ask you to organize tournaments in the other unbalanced variants that I mentioned earlier this year. I would appreciate it, if you give us an Old Hnefatafl 9x9 (bal. 2.55) tournament soon. It seems highly in favour of the whites but I don't see a way the whites to be so much in favour. It would be nice, if we could find another working variant for 9x9 board. At that moment we only have two well-balanced 9x9 variants- Saami Tablut and Sea battle-2526 9x9. Let's also test Tyr 9x9 (bal. 2). I played Tyr 9x9 a year ago and indeed, the whites were in favour but it was interesting to play it and I wonder if I can find good strategy for the blacks in it.
2022-04-21 19:48:38 Hagbard: The Old Hnefatafl 9x9 tourn. is on.
2022-04-21 20:25:15 Draganov: Thank you, Hagbard, I registered for the Old Hnefatafl 9x9 tournament. Hope that more and high rated players will join me on this battlefield.
2022-04-21 20:44:17 Hagbard: While we're at it, the Tyr 9x9 tourn. is on too.
2022-04-22 08:02:26 Hagbard: Just heard from one of our key players in Ukraine, Vogneslav Zmijovich, he is well and in uniform.
2022-04-25 22:53:48 Draganov: @Hagbard, Is there a bug in my Old Hnefatafl 9x9 game against MasterLuke. I blocked his king in the corner and according the rules of Old Hnefatafl the king is captured by 2 vikings next to the corner. However, the game is not over. Can you clarify this?
2022-04-25 23:27:11 Hagbard: corrected
2022-05-05 11:09:16 MasterLuke: What is Copenhagen Hnefatafl Bell?
2022-05-05 14:45:25 Hagbard: A normal Copenhagen with pieces starting in a Bell setup.
2022-05-17 22:12:18 Draganov: @Hagbard, I have a suggestion regarding the tournaments. Sometimes when a tournament in a specific variant is announced, after one week there is only one registered player. In that situation, the tournament is cancelled. My suggestion is just to keep this tournament open for registration until a second player joined it. Then the tournament will start as a normal tournament and the registration will be open for another week.
2022-05-17 22:38:43 Hagbard: I see your point. In those cases I have after some days created an extra tournament which perhaps could get more interest.
2022-05-20 22:26:32 Hagbard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z45RruFz8SM
2022-05-21 08:21:33 Hagbard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ku2uOszn6U
2022-05-22 08:12:19 Hagbard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzR-7dhXzK4
2022-05-22 13:57:24 Hagbard: http://aagenielsen.dk/hnefataflforum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&p=1703#p1703
2022-05-23 08:11:25 Hagbard: Finished tournaments: Tawlbwrdd Lewis cross 11x11: #1 Draganov, #2 Potapych, #3 Chaolaibhne Saami Tablut-w 9x9: #1 Chaolaibhne, #2 Draganov, #3 Dimetr Tawlbwrdd T diamond 11x11: #1 Draganov and Paul7, #3 Holidayinnes Tyr 13x13: #1 Jilles and Holidayinnes, #3 Draganov Tawlbwrdd Lewis diamond 11x11: #1 Draganov, #2 Chaolaibhne, #3 Rosk and Jrton80 Copenhagen Hnefatafl Bell 11x11: #1 Draganov, #2 Alex hnefatafl, #3 Rook and Floki Daldøs 3x16: #1 Rosk, #2 Xerxes, #3 Draganov and Jilles Historical Hnefatafl 15x15 (Nielsen): #1 Draganov, #2 Holidayinnes, #3 Jrton80 Daldøs 3x12: #1 Draganov and Rosk, #3 Jilles Historical Hnefatafl 13x13: #1 Draganov, #2 Rook, #3 Jrton80 Sea battle-2526 9x9: #1 Draganov, #2 Paul7, #3 Colophonius Saami Sáhkku 3x15: #1 Rosk and Holidayinnes, #3 Draganov Berserk Hnefatafl 11x11: #1 Draganov, #2 Jrton80, #3 Fraech Sea battle tafl 11x11: #1 Holidayinnes, #2 Chaolaibhne, #3 Draganov Daldøs 3x14: #1 Rosk, #2 Jilles, Holidayinnes and Xerxes Old Hnefatafl 11x11: #1 Draganov, #2 Rook, #3 Jrton80 Daldøs 3x16: #1 Xerxes, #2 Holidayinnes and L716 Fetlar Hnefatafl 11x11: #1 Draganov, #2 Holidayinnes, #3 Fraech Daldøs 3x12: #1 Holidayinnes, #2 Jilles and Xerxes Tyr 11x11: #1 Draganov, #2 Chaolaibhne, #3 Jrton80 Copenhagen Hnefatafl 11x11: #1 Alex hnefatafl, #2 Draganov, #3 Jilles and Holidayinnes Saami Sáhkku 3x15: #1 Holidayinnes, #2 Draganov, #3 Chaolaibhne and Rosk Saami Tablut 9x9: #1 Alex hnefatafl, #2 Draganov, #3 Dimetr and Paul7 Simple Tafl 11x11: #1 Draganov, #2 Alex hnefatafl, #3 Paul7 and Potapych Daldøs 3x14: #1 Holidayinnes and Hagbard, #3 Rosk and Xerxes Welsh Tawlbwrdd 11x11: #1 Alex hnefatafl, #2 Draganov, #3 Chaolaibhne Tawlbwrdd Lewis cross 11x11: #1 Draganov, #2 Chaolaibhne and Alex hnefatafl Old Hnefatafl 9x9: #1 Draganov, #2 Jrton80, #3 Alex hnefatafl Tyr 9x9: #1 Draganov, #2 Jilles, #3 Alex hnefatafl Daldøs 3x16: #1 Draganov, #2 Hagbard, #3 Jilles, Rosk and Xerxes Brandubh 7x7 (Walker): #1 Colophonius,
2022-05-23 08:12:31 Hagbard: Brandubh 7x7 (Walker): #1 Colophonius, #2 Paul7, #3 Unhandyandy Tyr 15x15: #1 Draganov, #2 Jilles, #3 Alex hnefatafl Daldøs 3x12: #1 Holidayinnes, #2 Hagbard, #3 Draganov Daldøs 3x14: #1 Holidayinnes, #2 Draganov, #3 Rosk and Hagbard Scottish Ard Ri 7x7: #1 Jilles and Paul7, #3 Rook Saami Sáhkku 3x15: #1 Rosk, #2 Hagbard, #3 Draganov and Jilles
2022-05-23 08:55:48 Draganov: @Hagbard, just one small correction. In Welsh Tawlbwrdd 11x11 Alex Hnefatafl was the winner since MasterLuke refused to play him and resigned. When a player resigned by move 2 the games are not counted in the tournament list and that's why Alex Hnefatafl didn't have 2 additional points. With the 2 additional points he would have won the tournament. If the points of MasterLuke are not counted then Alex Hnefatafl will again be the winner since he defeated me twice in that tournament.
2022-05-23 08:58:59 Draganov: I think we need to think about a situation when a player refused to play against another player. Imagine if such a situation happened in the world championship. I totally understand the choice of MasterLuke since Alex Hnefatafl has bad behaviour but what we can propose as a solution for such incidents? Would it be good if we purposely separate such players who has bad feelings against each other in different pots of the tournament? For example in football Israel and Iran cannot play against each other as well as Israel and Palestine.
2022-05-23 16:22:29 Hagbard: ok
2022-05-25 09:17:07 Hagbard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4NXA_69GVo
2022-05-26 18:04:55 Draganov: I have an idea for a different Copenhagen variant and would like to know the opinion of all of you. I think we can implement some kind of random tafl like Fischer random chess or as it is better known Chess960. The idea is to have different initial positions and the computer will pick up one of them. For example we can define 6 initial positions for Copenhagen 11x11 and dice should be thrown before the game and one of these 6 initial position is chosen. The players will not know which initial position they are going to play before the game starts. We can use for example the follow initial positions with the Copenhagen rules on a 11x11 board: 1: Standard Copenhagen position 2: Bell setup like in Welsh Tawlbwrdd 11x11 3: Position like in Simple Tafl 11x11 4: Position like in Tawlbwrdd Lewis diamond 11x11 5: Position like in Sea battle T circle 11x11 6: Position like in Sea battle T rhombus 11x11 We can also try more initial positions for the Copenhagen variant. These six positions came now in my mind but we can expand the list of the initial positions. Let me know what do you think? @Hagbard, how difficult it would be from a programatic point of view to implement such a random variant?
2022-05-27 11:13:05 Draganov: I also explored the variants which have (bal. 0) in the games archive. I found out some of them to be very interesting to be tested. In my opinion, when a variant was tested long ago and was found to be in favour of the whites with a huge margin, for example balance +2.00 and more, it is actually well-balanced or in slight favour of the blacks. We have already tested such variants recently and found them to be well-balanced (for example Copenhagen Bell 11x11 and Tyr 9x9). I still believe Tawlbwrdd Lewis diamond 11x11 is also well-balanced. In our tournament some of the white victories came after timing out but the position was in favour of the blacks. I also managed to stop with the blacks such a strong player like Chaolaibhne which is a proof of the vitality of the variant.
2022-05-27 11:15:21 Draganov: I also would like to add Old Hnefatafl 9x9 as a revived variant which we found to be well-balanced.
2022-05-27 11:29:14 Draganov: Here is a list of the revived variants and how their balanced improved after the last test tournaments: Old Hnefatafl 9x9 from balance 2.55 to 2.18 (balance based only on the games in the last tournament 1.57) Tyr 9x9 from 2.00 to 1.58 (in the last tournament 1.15) Copenhagen Bell 11x11 from 2.21 to 1.50 (in the last tournaments 1.22) In my opinion, this a great revival of these old variants. Now, we have 2 more working variants for a 9x9 board. Before that we had only one Sea Battle variant and Saami Tablut for this board size. We also have another working 11x11 Copenhagen variant which is a proof that the Copenhagen rules could work well on different setups.
2022-05-27 15:55:11 Draganov: Here is the link to the forum where I opened a new topic about the variants: http://aagenielsen.dk/hnefataflforum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=146
2022-05-27 15:58:58 Draganov: @Hagbard, can we have a test tournament on Copenhagen 13x13? I also would like to ask you about the status of Foteviken tablut 11x11 since its balance is 11 black wins versus 9 white wins. It seems worthy to be tested too. And what about the variant Fidchell armed (Hnefatafl edge 7x7)? It seems crazy and weird to me but I think it might be fun to test it in a tournament.
2022-05-29 15:55:27 MasterLuke: I am playing the Foteviken tablut 11x11 tournament against Rook. I know neither the whites or the blacks can enter or re-enter the base camps, but I understood that the blacks can move WHITIN the base camp squares as long as they did not leave the camp. So I guess I should be able to move from d1 to e1, or from f1 to f2. But It seems I cannot make these moves. Or is it a bug?
2022-05-29 21:15:24 Hagbard: Yes, working on it.
2022-05-30 19:02:41 MasterLuke: In addition to the bug in the foteviken Tablut I wrote earlier about (blacks cannot move in base camp), I also found out it's impossible to cross over the forbidden squares. I.e. in my game against Rook I wanted to move from g6 to e6, in order to kill d6. Doesn't work. Or is that a rule in this variant?
2022-05-30 19:04:46 Hagbard: yes, the Foteviken throne cannot be crossed
2022-05-30 19:59:26 MasterLuke: Ah sorry, my fault
2022-05-30 23:47:23 MasterLuke: Forgive me for asking this again about Foteviken Tablut. Underneath the game board states this sentence: 'Forbidden squares are friendly (except towards the king)'... I just killed an ordinary black piece on e2 in my game against Holidayinnes. So the camp squares are not friendly but hostile to ALL pieces, right?
2022-05-31 12:01:33 Hagbard: corrected
2022-05-31 22:32:25 Dimetr: Hello! At the Tablut - W tournament now, it's seems like a good balance! Many wins by white
2022-06-01 08:23:08 Hagbard: Tablut-w calculated right now: -1.09 Tablut: -1.19
2022-06-01 10:04:11 Draganov: My opinion, based on my experience with the tafl game so far, is that almost all of the variants with perfect play from both sides, will lead to win for the blacks. However, we as human beings, cannot play perfectly and that's why we see white wins. For me, it is more important a variant to be playable and complex enough to give the players a mind challenge. For example Old Hnefatafl 11x11 is not playable at all. The task for the blacks is so easy that a good player will give no chances to the white side. This observation on Old Hnefatafl 11x11 was also made by Nath many years ago. On the other hand, some variants seem imbalanced but can offer a lot of possible game plans and unclear positions which if they are evaluated correctly will be resolved in blacks favour but they are not so easy to be evaluated especially in blitz play. So, I am looking for variants that have deep move tree and in which the whites can easily break the blacks position from the beginning making the game a mass and creates chaos on the board. Variants like Old Hnefatafl 11x11 where the game plan for the whites is so clear that the blacks just need 5-6 moves to close the corners and decide the game are not interesting for me. I think we need to look for variants in which the initial black position is weaken and has as many open lines for the whites as possible. I strongly advice all the players to give a try to these variants which I think work best for the different board sizes: 9x9 -> Tyr 9x9 (this is the best variant for 9x9 board so far, it is complex, bloody, tricky and the positions are going chaotic from the beginning) 11x11 -> Copenhagen Bell 11x11, Tawlbwrdd Lewis cross 11x11, Tawlbwrdd Lewis diamond 11x11 I am still looking forward to find the best variants for the other board sizes.
2022-06-01 12:03:48 Draganov: @Hagbard, I think Foteviken tablut 11x11 tournament should be not rated because there were some changes in the rules while the tournament was ongoing.
2022-06-01 12:07:33 Hagbard: Quite true
2022-06-01 12:44:20 MasterLuke: I just made a move to b6 with my king in the foteviken tournament against Draganov. I thought nobody, including the king, could enter this camp square?
2022-06-01 13:06:48 Hagbard: corrected
2022-06-01 15:48:11 Draganov: @Hagbard, in my Foteviken game against Masterluke I am playing with the whites and I think that if I play g4-j4 I will kill his viking on j5. His viking on j5 will be surronded from each side. This is mentioned in rule 11: 'A Moscovit placed in the front square of the base camp can be captured if Swedish pieces are placed on opposing sides of it'. Could you clarify this rule?
2022-06-01 15:53:18 MasterLuke: I found this link with the 'official' foteviken rules: https://www.fotevikensmuseum.se/d/en/vikingar/hur/spel/regler It's nowhere clearly stated, but I understand the camp squares are hostile to all, instead of friendly except towards the king.
2022-06-01 18:47:13 Hagbard: The Swedish Foteviken rules are translated into English here: http://aagenielsen.dk/foteviken_rules_english.html Rule 11 says: "Empty base camp squares and the empty throne square are only hostile to the king, not to other pieces."
2022-06-01 23:46:35 MasterLuke: Thanks for the clarification. I wasn't aware of the rules on this website. On the foteviken website, nothing is said about camp squares being hostile only to the king.
2022-06-02 09:28:59 Draganov: @Hagbard, thank you for organizing so many test tournaments and especially these series of Sea Batlles. I will be happy if many players joined the sea battle tournaments since this variants seem to be more dynamical.
2022-06-02 11:08:31 Hagbard: The Foteviken site's English text: Rule 6: "A hostile pawn is defeated by placing two of your own pawns on both sides of it." - There is no mention of using an empty forbidden square to kill a piece. Rule 11: "To the king the castle, once he has left it, and the enemy camp squares are considered hostile. Thus these squares can be used by the muscovites to surround him." - Whereas it's explicitely mentioned that empty forbidden squares can be used against the king (and only against the king).
2022-06-08 00:16:19 Hagbard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xk2I4LFRLHE
2022-06-09 16:05:22 Draganov: @Hagbard, why the name of the Fetlar 13x13 is Viking Siege? Is there something related to the rules of the variant or it is just a nice name? Could you also explein if there are some special rules in the Fidchell armed (Hnefatafl edge 7x7) or this is just a standard game in which the white king is armed and needs to reach the edge?
2022-06-09 16:05:57 Draganov: Can you also provide some historical background on the Fidchell variant? Who made it and when?
2022-06-09 21:15:24 Hagbard: Fetlar 13x13 (Viking Siege): Once upon a time there was a DOS computer game 13x13 called "Viking Siege" with this setup: https://www.old-games.com/download/5673/viking-siege https://www.dosgames.com/game/viking-siege/
2022-06-09 21:16:04 Hagbard: Fidchell armed (Hnefatafl edge 7x7): This version is like a standard Old Hnefatafl 7x7 to the edge. We tried many ways of playing this setup: http://aagenielsen.dk/hnefataflforum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=39 http://tafl.cyningstan.com/post/1149/fithcheall-and-gwyddbwyll-hnefatafl-or-not
2022-06-10 09:45:01 Draganov: @Hagbard, when you tried the Fidchell what was not working? Why did you say in the forum that: 'We tested Fidchell and were not able to find any way of making it work'? In the archive I can see only 2 games and both of them finished with wins for the whites. However, I do think the blacks will easily win in this variant.
2022-06-10 10:53:09 Hagbard: We tried armed and unarmed, Fidchell is a mystery and fx. Walker writes that perhaps it's not tafl
2022-06-10 12:40:18 Hagbard: - By the way there might have been more test games of Fidchell. Because at some point the archive was cleared of very short (aborted) games of perhaps 8 moves and less, and there might have been some very short Fidchell test games unfortunately lost by that -
2022-06-16 12:00:07 MasterLuke: What does 'King anvil only' mean (new tournaments)? I'm only here for 3 years, sorry for asking.
2022-06-16 12:09:40 Hagbard: "King anvil only" is the Fetlar Hnefatafl with a small change to the king: the king can capture as anvil but not as hammer. So, an attacking king cannot capture, but attacks *against* the king do capture. As far as I remember, this variant is from the Shetland island of Unst.
2022-06-16 13:56:36 Draganov: @Hagbard, since it is a Fetlar variant, is the repetition allowed and leading to a draw or the whites are always losing when repeating the position?
2022-06-16 20:29:58 Hagbard: Repetition is an idea of the Fetlar Hnefatafl Panel, so I suppose that it's not included in the Unst implementation.
2022-06-17 14:04:42 Hagbard: New in gallery: Royal Hall in Lejre and Steiger's tafl game.
2022-06-17 18:42:09 Jrton80: @MasterLuke I was about to ask the same question - but since it is Fetlar where the repetition is not an automatic loss as it should be, I'll pass
2022-06-17 19:19:57 Hagbard: I checked the program, and repetitions in the Unst variants are a black win.
2022-06-18 07:15:25 Steiger: @Hagbard: It's fantastic! Thanks a lot, Aage! A great honor for me.
2022-06-18 09:25:32 Draganov: @Hagbard, what is the historical background of king anvil and king hammer? Who invented these variants? Is there any historical evidence that the original tafl game had the king as anvil or hammer?
2022-06-18 09:43:26 Hagbard: 1811 Smith translated Linne's diary into English, and did some grave translations errors which made the game implossible to play. So others in the English speaking world attempted to fix this by introducing all sorts of patches, like unarmed king, hammer/anvil only etc. etc. Such misunderstandings are a hundred years old and now have a life of their own - I wrote about it here: http://aagenielsen.dk/copenhagen_summary.php
2022-06-18 16:00:16 Draganov: @Hagbard, in King anvil only 11x11 is it possible the king to kill opponent's viking next to the corner? In my game against Rosk, I see that my king is able to kill as a hammer when the opponent's piece is next to te corner?
2022-06-18 16:10:44 Hagbard: A bug. I fix it later
2022-06-18 17:42:58 Hagbard: Fixed
2022-06-18 23:20:18 ChaolAibhne: Did Linnaeus's journal get translated from Latin into any other language than English? If so, how did the errors in Smith's translation prevail?
2022-06-19 08:20:13 Hagbard: This was investigated by Ashton: http://aagenielsen.dk/LinnaeusPaper-Longer.pdf
2022-06-19 16:24:14 ChaolAibhne: @Hagbard I couldn't find in Ashton's paper any mention of translations into languages other than English.
2022-06-21 09:25:35 Draganov: I think king as anvil or hammer is an interesting variant and offers a different game experience. I would like to invite more players to join the two tournaments and have fun with these variants. Let's try to find out which one is better for the whites - king as an anvil or king as a hammer.
2022-06-21 18:32:47 Hagbard: @ChaolAibhne, I take it that Ashton has searched for it and not found any, and I have not heard of any neither
2022-06-22 13:11:47 Draganov: @All, I would like to play 100 Copenhagen games simultaneously. It will be like 100-man kumite challenge in Karate where one man is fighting against 100 men. I want to ask you who is going to help me in this challenge? Please, feel free to express in the chat your readiness to play against me and the amount of game that you could handle. Since I am best experience in the Copenhagen variant, I would like to play the games in it but I am open for playing in other variants as well. I also don't mind if my future opponents will be low or high rated. I am open to face and enjoy the tafl game against everyone. I also will let my opponents to decide the time buffer - 2, 4 or 10 days. So, share your opinion about my challenge please. Express your readiness to play and mention the amount of the games, the variant and the time control. I think I am in the berserker mood, thirsty for blood and battles.
2022-06-24 21:39:59 ChaolAibhne: @Hagbard I'm getting an error when I try to see my games. I think some of them may be about to time out!
2022-06-24 22:10:44 Hagbard: ok
2022-06-25 00:32:31 ChaolAibhne: @Hagbard Thanks for fixing the error. I can now get in to my games. But I've found that a couple of my games have indeed timed out in the meantime.
2022-06-25 10:09:30 Hagbard: The two games could be erased?
2022-06-25 12:09:10 ChaolAibhne: If it's not possible to restore them to a situation where they have a few hours left then just leave them
2022-06-25 17:34:30 Draganov: Currently I am playing more than 100 tafl games simultaneously. I want to say thanks to all of my opponents who are helping me to set up this new record for gaming activity. Especially, I want to thank the players who are playing long matches of 10 games against me. So, these players are Themightyglider, Rosk, Colophonius, Dimetr, Jrton80, Alex Hnefatafl, Kaykyber, Masterluke, Fraech. I am also grateful to players like Floki, Rook, Jilles and Hagabrd for participating in my record attempt despite the less amount of games that we are currently playing against each other. Finally, special thanks to Holidayinnes for playing in many games against me in the tournaments.
2022-06-25 19:08:35 Draganov: And I am still open to be invited to other games. So, if you someone wants to challenge me, I will accept
2022-06-26 18:08:56 MasterLuke: I find the ongoing fidchell armed variant tournament rather entertaining. It's a very crowded affair, which creates surprisingly funny situations. While not finished yet, I think it's not too unbalanced. Any other opinions on the matter? Makes me wonder how a larger fidchell variant (on a 9x9 or even an 11x11 format) would look like.
2022-06-27 10:34:51 Draganov: @MasterLuke, Fidchel's balance based on the tournament is 1.47. I am still uncertain about its balance. Although the result from the tournament was in favour of the whites, I think it is too easy for the blacks to win. I think most of the players had wrong game plans when playing with the blacks. In my opinion, the blacks need to keep their corners's vikings in the corners. While these vikings are in the corners, they are immortal. The goal of the whites must be to place vikings in the corners. So, we need more test games but this time the blacks need to try a game plan with keeping their corners's vikings not moved. Then, I think the game might be strongly in black's favour.
2022-06-27 10:35:33 Draganov: However, Fidchel on bigger boards will be interesting
2022-06-28 21:06:25 MasterLuke: I found this curious variant of the Fidchell game. See link below: https://totallyirishgifts.com/fidchell-the-ancient-celtic-chess-game/#:~:text=The%20High%20King%20can%20only,and%20cannot%20jump%20over%20pieces. Compared to the recently played Fidchell tournament, there are some differences: - It features 12 attackers versus 8 defenders (the defenders being black and the attackers white), with of course a different starting set-up - There is a central throne, like in Tafl games and the same features: hostile to normal pieces, 3-way capture for the king standing next to it - Most strikingly is the fact that the king may move only one square, except on the border, where he can travel in a row as long as possible. His goal is to reach one of the corners. Has this been discussed, played or tested here before? (I don't know if the one-step movement combined with the long movements alonside the borders is programmable)
2022-06-29 10:24:44 Hagbard: New in gallery: Midsummer Eve.
2022-07-01 16:27:43 Hagbard: Medieval Market problem: http://aagenielsen.dk/hnefataflforum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=147&p=1705#p1705
2022-07-03 11:27:24 Hagbard: New in gallery: Tour de France 2022 in Denmark.
2022-07-04 09:52:49 MasterLuke: I'm selling my unique hand-made Tafl gaming piece sets, therefore I created a webshop on Etsy. Have a look at: https://www.etsy.com/shop/TaflMaster?ref=seller-platform-mcnav
2022-07-05 11:22:23 Hagbard: Added to the shop list: http://aagenielsen.dk/taflshops.php
2022-07-05 18:48:29 MasterLuke: @Hagbard: thanks! Earlier today, just after one day since I opened my shop, I already sold my largest set ;)
2022-07-15 20:11:46 Hagbard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZ9-UOJ1XMQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NseNV8b0XlM
2022-07-15 20:54:14 Hagbard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=me2nRtLHn6c
2022-07-15 22:11:30 Hagbard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_pqx1CffVk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEvEk8d72Uc
2022-07-16 12:01:36 Hagbard: The Sea Stallion takes off from its home town Roskilde June 2022: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rna0VTtAw6s A clip from the Sea Stallion 2017: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNUmXARTVOg The Sea Stallion is a precise replica of a (king's) viking war ship. The original ship found on the bottom of Roskilde Fjord was built 1042, and it took 4 years to build the replica. The Sea Stallion was finished 2004 and launched to the tones of this melody composed for the launch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65fwVB7H798 At the launch 60 musicians played this tune, same number as the number of oars in the ship.
2022-07-17 14:39:38 Hagbard: https://www.tv2east.dk/sommerklar/sommerklar-skovtarnet https://www.tv2east.dk/sommerklar/sommerklar-trelleborg
2022-07-17 21:03:28 Hagbard: The two videos put in the forum July 15th are this year's traditional folk dance meetings very far north in Sweden, Bingsjöstämman July and Ransäterstämman June. Then a traditional march from Scania on the way to two videos from the central park in Copenhagen a few days ago, also traditional folk dance. All is totally back to normal - how many face masks and worried people do you see in the videos ...
2022-07-21 18:10:27 Hagbard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fg8hfNMZ6Ew https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7cST2AgAOA
2022-07-21 19:49:23 Hagbard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcP_k9eQz-A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_A6wD8woKvQ
2022-07-21 20:47:03 Hagbard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zuV3IIaYPA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTcbSus0PLU
2022-07-25 19:00:42 Hagbard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyjE0NzwXGA
2022-07-26 09:37:59 Hagbard: Finished tournaments: Copenhagen Hnefatafl Bell 11x11: #1 Draganov, #2 Jilles, #3 Floki Saami Sáhkku 3x15: #1 Rosk; #2 Hagbard, #3 Draganov and Jilles Historical Hnefatafl 13x13: #1 Draganov, #2 Dimetr, Jrton80 and Masterluke Daldøs 3x16: #1 Draganov, #2 Holidayinnes and Rosk Berserk Hnefatafl 11x11: #1 Draganov, #2 Jrton80, #3 Fraech Saami Tablut-w 9x9: #1 Draganov, #2 Dimetr and Jarcin Daldøs 3x14: #1 Draganov, #2 Jilles, #3 Rosk Sea battle-2526 9x9: #1 Draganov, Alex hnefatafl and Colophonius Tyr 11x11: #1 Draganov, #2 Jrton80, #3 Masterluke Daldøs 3x12: #1 Draganov and Rosk, #3 Chaolaibhne Copenhagen Hnefatafl 13x13: #1 Rook, #2 Draganov, #3 Holidayinnes Foteviken tablut 11x11: #1 Draganov, #2 Holidayinnes, #3 Rook Historical Hnefatafl 13x13: #1 Draganov, #2 Holidayinnes, #3 Jrton80 and Masterluke Saami Sáhkku 3x15: #1 Draganov and Hagbard, #3 Holidayinnes Tablut 13x13 (modif. Parlett): #1 Draganov, #2 Holidayinnes, #3 Jrton80 Sea battle line 9x9: #1 Draganov, #2 Holidayinnes, #3 Rook Sea battle square 9x9: #1 Draganov, #2 Holidayinnes, Colophonius and Rosk Sea battle-1571 9x9: #1 Draganov, #2 Holidayinnes, #3 Colophonius Sea battle-1606 9x9: #1 Draganov, #2 Rosk, #3 Colophonius Daldøs 3x16: #1 Chaolaibhne and Hagbard, #3 Draganov and Holidayinnes Brandubh 7x7 (Walker): #1 Paul7, #2 Colophonius, #3 Unhandyandy and Kaykyber Fetlar Hnefatafl 11x11: #1 Draganov, #2 Masterluke and Kaykyber Fetlar 13x13 (Viking Siege): #1 Draganov, #2 Themightyglider, #3 Rook Fidchell armed 7x7: #1 Draganov, #2 Jilles, #3 Dimetr and Rosk Daldøs 3x14: #1 Holidayinnes, #2 Rosk, #3 Hagbard Welsh Tawlbwrdd-w 11x11: #1 Draganov, #2 Holidayinnes, #3 Alex hnefatafl and Paul7 King anvil only 11x11: #1 Draganov and Holidayinnes, #3 Rosk King anvil only edge 11x11: #1 Draganov and Holidayinnes, #3 Rosk Daldøs 3x12: #1 Chaolaibhne, #2 Draganov, #3 Rosk Fidchell weak-king 7x7: #1 Holidayinnes, #2 Jilles, #3 Draganov and Alex hnefatafl
2022-07-26 10:54:15 Hagbard: New in gallery: Dimetr sent photos from last weekend's big viking festival at the Volga.
2022-07-26 16:02:56 Draganov: Wow, these new photos in the gallery are very nice. Good job, Dimetr in popularizing the tafl and daldos games in Russia!
2022-07-26 18:06:49 Dimetr: Thanks, I think even a few people are interested in Tafl, they will show the game to their friends, etc.
2022-07-26 18:21:44 Dimetr: In 2019 Lucho Panchev (Odinhimself) came to this festival, there are photos in the gallery, how he plays with Steiger. I haven't played Tafl yet, and I was on vacation in Bulgaria 2019, It was good times, now we won't be able to visit each other soon, damn politics!
2022-07-26 20:32:04 Hagbard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6Uak_kt040
2022-07-28 18:36:17 Hagbard: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/IINcNS1ahZ4
2022-07-28 18:50:45 Hagbard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQYEztnaL0U
2022-07-29 15:43:24 Draganov: I have some thoughts on the possibility to play tafl on a 5x5 board. Please see this topic in the forum and share your thought there or here: http://aagenielsen.dk/hnefataflforum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=148
2022-07-31 00:27:54 Steiger: https://youtu.be/0rBznSRmZ6E
2022-07-31 11:45:20 Draganov: @Hagbard, thank you for implementing Simple Tafl 5x5 so quickly and starting a new tournament! I think it will be fun to test it and see if it is at least more playable than tic tac toe.
2022-07-31 18:42:15 Hagbard: You're welcome. Interesting idea.
2022-08-05 12:28:08 Hagbard: New in gallery: game sets ready for Medieval Festival.
2022-08-13 11:53:28 Colophonius: @Hagbard: Is there a final timeout in x10 games?
2022-08-14 09:22:21 Hagbard: x10 games can eventually time out after several months.
2022-08-14 11:18:07 Draganov: Thank you to all of the participants in the test tournament of Simple Tafl 5x5. I think we had one of the greatest tournaments this year with many participants. The result is 63 black wins against 45 white wins. The balance is -1.40, which is not so bad. The variant of course is solved but this was expected since even the deepest abstract game GO on 5x5 board is completely solved. However, Simple Tafl 5x5 proved itself suitable as an educational tool and could be used to introduce the game and its principles to absolute beginners. The game itself is solved as a win for the blacks but without experience and playing blitz even the strongest players lost games with both colors which is an evidence that even this simplest tafl variant can offer a good mind challenge.
2022-08-15 18:13:10 OdinHimself: I was surprised minutes ago when I find out the WTF championship starts (again) with different variant of Copenhagen. I think it is necessary for the federation to define permanent variants with exact rules for the big competitions so that every player knows how to prepare. Otherwise, players like me for example, who only play certain variants, practically lose their chances of ranking and there is a high probability that they will drop out in disgrace at the very beginning. I personally, have only played two games of this variant and I don't feel at all prepared to participate under these circumstances.
2022-08-15 21:01:08 Hagbard: It's because the two variants are very similar, only a slightly different start setup. It gives a bit more variation in the rounds. It also eases the organizing, because A can play against B in round 1 and again in round2, it is not the identical same game again. So Copenhagen Bell is largely the same as Copenhagen.
2022-08-16 09:09:28 Dimetr: Odinhimself is right - Copenhagen Bell has not been tested enough. It doesn't matter for me - I will take part for the experience. But if the strong players won't be play - the tournament will not be interesting
2022-08-16 09:46:04 Hagbard: Well, if it's the general opinion that it would be better with usual Copenhagen for all the rounds, it can soon be changed. Is it better changed?
2022-08-16 10:38:03 Draganov: I think we need to have discussions on the world championship. However, many players are not talkative and don't express their opinion. I am OK if the tournament is using the standard Copenhagen. On the other hand, I think Hagbard tried to make a step in the right direction by including more variants. Regarding the Copenhagen Bell it is just Copenhagen with a different initial setup. It was tested mainly by myself because the other players were not interested to try something new. I am little bit sad that many players are playing only 1 maximum 2 variants. We have 3 kinds of players - only Brandubh guys, only Tablut players and a really small number of only Copenhagen ones. There are about 5 players who are playing all variants (me, Jrton80, Holidayinnes, MasterLuke and to some extent Cacreal). I think it will be difficult to test a variant when the players are not actively playing or stacked in one variant.
2022-08-16 11:17:00 OdinHimself: Yes, I agree with Draganov - players should be more curious and active in new variants, I really like to try new ones, but I lack time. That's why I try to stay in shape only for standart Copenhagen variant, because this is what we play on the WTF championship. I vote for this variant only, but if majority wants the Bell version I will accept this choice.
2022-08-16 11:54:28 Draganov: @All, let's have discussion, please! I think we need to vote and express our personal opinion. In my case, I vote for the standard Copenhagen for this year for the strong king championship. However, I would be glad to see more Copenhagen variants for the next year championship and see Standard Copenhagen and Copenhagen Bell in 2023 championship. Regarding the historical championship - I am glad to see more than 1 variant included. So, I like the idea of playing both Tablut and Welsh Tawlbwrdd. I like the idea of having a Sea Battle master. However, I think sea battle variants are too exotic and will not attract more than 5 players. Having a Race Game Master is also a nice idea. So, combining Daldos and Sahkku is a great choice. I like the idea of taking the highest ever reached rating of a player. In this way, noone will be able to decrease his/her rating on purpose in order to face an easy opponent. I am happy with the duel of many games started at once, if we have a final round between two players. However, I think in the final duel, the results of the previous rounds must not be taken into considerations and both players to start with clear points and from 0-0.
2022-08-16 13:22:11 floki: I back up the idea of dismissing the Copenhagen Bell variant in the first round. It would be a good idea to implement a tournament with both variant but it is unappropriated for the WCT. I also think that all top players should register for this greatest Tafl time of the year. The reluctance of some players doesn't sound very good and should be taken into account, not to mention the most probable non participation of Casshern and Plantagenet (I wish very much I am wrong).
2022-08-16 16:50:49 jarcin: Hello all! I'm a relative newcomer here. Thanks @Hagbard for the great site and all the work you put into it. In regards to variants for the Championship I don't really have an opinion, since I don't think I'm ready for that big of an undertaking either way (yet). In regards to what @draganov said about only playing one variant, I'm a slow learner, and I like the idea of getting to know one game well. And I still feel that I have a lot to learn about tablut (which are the only variants I play so far). I'm also a historical accuracy nerd so I prefer tablut for that reason. And I like the game length. I'm very impressed by the players who can play a lot of variants at once though! However if there's ever an attempt to try tablut on bigger boards (i.e. standard 25 piece tablut starting position but in the middle of a 13x13 board for example, which I think there's some (circumstantial) historical evidence in support of) then I would be very happy to try that.
2022-08-17 14:05:26 Dimetr: I think, it will be more players in standart Copenhagen in a both rounds. Copenhagen Bell may confuse some good players. As for historical variants - classical Tablut is not balanced - black is much better (we checked that many times - White wins only as a result of Black's mistake) But at the Tablut - W (white move first) - balance is good. Because White gets the speed, as they need. Linnaeus did not write who makes the first move. Maybe we will play Tablut -W in a first round of historical variants?
2022-08-18 09:33:20 Hagbard: It is the Tablut-w and the Tawlbwrdd-w
2022-08-18 11:57:58 Dimetr: Hagbard, about Tablut - W, sorry I didn't read the rules carefully. It's great, that's what we need.
2022-08-20 02:51:48 Jrton80: You shorten this up? it has been a while since I looked.
2022-08-20 07:50:09 Hagbard: Just below is a link to "... more ..." and messages six months back.
2022-08-22 14:03:55 Draganov: Today, I finished all of my games from 100+ games marathon. I managed to complete all of the games without timing out. In one moment I was involved in more than 130 simultaneous games. However, some of the games were not a part of matches between me and another player but were just friendly games or part of the tournaments. I gave the chance to most of my opponent to choose the variants that they prefer to play and as a result the 124 match games were played in many different variants. The total result of my games is 101 wins and 23 loses. Here are some details on the matches that I played during this marathon. I want to thank all of my oponents for the great battles and I would like to say that without your readiness to play, this game activity record would not be possible to happend. Draganov vs Alex Hnefatafl 8:2 vs Jilles 5:5 vs Dimetr 9:1 vs Jrton80 8:2 vs Potapich (Потапыч) 6:4 vs Rook 4:2 vs Colophonius 4:6 (only Brandubh games) vs MasterLuke 9:1 vs Fraech 10:0 vs Themightyglider 10:0 vs Rosk 10:0 vs Kaykyber 10:0 vs Floki 6:0 vs Hagbard 2:0
2022-08-22 18:27:21 Hagbard: Congratulations, that is good work!
2022-08-22 23:07:01 Skye: Playing 1 game at a time feels like an olympic effort, let alone more than a 100. Well done
2022-08-23 10:17:03 Draganov: @Skye, thank you for your comment! I think when a player gains more tafl experience, he/she will be able to handle many simultaneous games. When I started playing tafl, I felt the same way like you, spending a lot of time trying to figure out my next move. However, the more I played, the easier and faster I played. I am sure, that there are at least 10 players here who can handle 100 simultaneous games. If we play in the same way we play chess, we can find out that playing tafl is not more difficult than playing chess. When I played chess in my local club, I usually played 2-3 games per day. It took me 2-3 hours to complete the games and in these games I made about 100-150 moves. So, playing 100 tafl moves per day, it wouldn't be a problem, if we play with the same speed as we play chess. When playing chess in the local club, I spent about 10-20 seconds of thinking out my next move. Just as a test for you guys, try to play some tafl games with 10-20 seconds of thinking your next move. In the beginning you are most likely going to lose the games but after 10-20 games, you will start playing almost as strong as you were playing before when you spent a lot of time of thinking.
2022-08-23 12:48:46 Colophonius: @Hagbard: Draganov and I just finished a ten games Brandubh-match, where Black won 9 times out of 10 (and I can confirm this guy plays like a madman - considering the amount of experience he had with Brandubh, I tip my hat to him). That's why we began to ask ourselves, whether Walker's rules could favor Black too strongly, given, that the player is experienced enough. Therefor I wanted to suggest to re-introduce Brandubh 2 next to Walker's variant to give more experienced players the opportunity to test it's balance further out. And maybe a slight modification of the Brandubh 2-rules in Walker's direction, not too much of course, could also be helpful, for example capturing the king on his throne with just two attackers instead of 4. What do you think?
2022-08-24 07:25:21 Skye: @Draganov. Thanks for the tip, i tried 2 games with someone kind enough to play 2 games not 10 or 20), but will stick to slow for now.
2022-08-24 07:37:58 Hagbard: Brandubh2 is added
2022-08-24 12:30:10 Alex Hnefatafl: .
2022-08-24 12:48:15 Colophonius: @Hagbard: Thanks a lot!
2022-08-24 15:21:16 Draganov: @Hagbard, there seems to be a bug in myy berserk game against Jrton80. He could not move but the game was not over. He resigned but could you check the program code and fix it so as the game to be finished atomatically in such situations?
2022-08-24 18:11:12 Colophonius: @Hagbard: Is there a way to ckeck, how many Brandubh1 and Brandubh2 games ended with the king captured by four attackers sitting on his throne? I know that I once captured my opponent that way, but only once and I wonder how often this king-captured-by-four rule actually has been practiced yet. It seems to give white an advantage, because it makes it harder for black to push the king from the throne. I'm wondering, if this combination of Brandubh2 and Walker could be the best balanced version: Taking a little bit of the defenders' privileges by capturing the king anywhere on the board by two attackers, but also giving them the possibility to capture attackers against an empty throne hostile to all, but friendly to white if the king sits on it.
2022-08-29 10:36:36 Hagbard: New in gallery: Ringsted Medieval Festival.
2022-08-29 17:52:24 Draganov: Welcome to Ramzi khadhraoui! As I can see, he is a FIDE chess player. It it nice to see experienced chess players on the tafl field. I watched his tafl games and see how well he improved and step by step is coming closer to understand the principles of the game. I think this next tournament will be very exciting.
2022-08-30 07:50:13 Hagbard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIN94USHvAc
2022-08-30 09:38:13 Ramzi Khadhraoui: Merci mon ami Draganov !!! Je joue du hnefatafl et du tablut et leurs autres dérivés depuis seulement 1 mois. J'espère progresser plus vite à Hnefatafl Copenhagen ,surtout avant le commencement du tournoi ! Au plaisir de jouer avec vous et merci encore !
2022-08-31 22:59:21 Павел Дусенко: Hello!
2022-08-31 23:56:38 Draganov: Hello, Pavel Dusenko (Павел Дусенко) and welcome to the Tafl game! Could you introduce yourself with a few words?
2022-09-01 07:20:36 Павел Дусенко: Hello, I would like to participate in the Copenhagen Hnefataflu World Tournament. I have been familiar with this game for two years now and would like to try my hand at the tournament.
2022-09-01 09:39:28 Draganov: I think you have already regestered and your registration was successful. So, have a nice time in the upcoming tournament!
2022-09-01 15:25:26 Draganov: @Hagbard, I have a question reagrding the spreading of the participants in the world championship. You mentioned this statement: 'All players are ordered by their separate max. rating for the variant used.' How can I check what is a player's separate max rating for a certain variant? If I open the link 'Separate Rating list' on the play tafl against humans page, I can see only the current separate rating but not the max ratings ever achieved.
2022-09-01 19:30:30 Павел Дусенко: Thanks a lot! And all the best to you!
2022-09-02 07:35:35 Hagbard: The total max. ratings are listed in the Wall of Fame. The max. rating for one variant is not listed. It is found by a program tailored for it.
2022-09-03 13:03:07 Hagbard: 12 days till start of World Tourn. 2022. 24 players registered so far. Missing players are fx.: Colophonius, Cacreal, Themightyglider, Fenric7, L716, casshern, paul7, Waegn, garun19, Bogd Khan
2022-09-08 17:16:33 Draganov: @Hagbard, I saw that Gustav registered for the Copenhagen tournament. However, he completed just two games in both of which he timed-out. I think he need to complete at least one game until the end in order to prove he is going to be active player in the tournament.
2022-09-08 17:31:33 Hagbard: True. Looks like a no-show ...
2022-09-09 18:57:56 Hagbard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxXuykAJ3nk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uis-Cqu_LDM
2022-09-10 09:08:39 Hagbard: 5 days till start of World Tourn. 2022. 27 players registered. Missing players are fx.: Colophonius, Themightyglider, Fenric7, L716, casshern, paul7, Waegn, Bogd Khan, jarcin, Steiger, Rossomaha, KayKyber, Brench, jules, Hujtak, EilidhAnIorua, Boucher228, Hnefihunter, beyn, Irish Raven, silversplitter, docbullen, herjan, kAAgEE, Agmundr
2022-09-12 06:48:01 Casshern: @Hagbard: I am trying to sign up for the world championship: Copenhagen, Historical, and Sea Battle. But it keeps saying and either my username doesn’t exist or I have the wrong password. Can you register me for these 3 games?
2022-09-12 09:05:33 Hagbard: @Casshern, thank you! it's recorded.
2022-09-12 09:47:28 Draganov: @Casshern, welcome back, champ! I am ready for the rematch. It is great to see you playing again!
2022-09-12 10:36:34 Draganov: @All, if you see some open invitation from new users and have time to play, please help them to complete 1-2 games because they might be willing to join the world championship and need to complete at least one game in order to participate in the tournament.
2022-09-12 21:49:43 Dimetr: Casshern! it's great that you come back! We missed your games
2022-09-13 21:20:01 Hagbard: NB Deadline for registering is September 14th 12:00 Danish time
2022-09-14 22:20:44 Hagbard: May Loki give you laughter as you go
2022-09-20 16:11:45 Draganov: @Hagbard, as a historian I wonder who is the highest rated female tafl player that played here? Are there any female players who has played over the years on the website?
2022-09-20 16:13:41 Draganov: I also would like to ask you if you know about the Icelandic game called 'Að Elta Stelpur'? It seems that in Europe there are only 3 race games that are with European origin - Að Elta Stelpur, Sahkku and Daldos. Would it be difficult to implement this game in the future and complete the set of the European and Nordic race games?
2022-09-20 20:42:48 xerxes: @Draganov. I can't remember any female players on this site (apologies to any that I have forgotten), though of course the handles we use (eg xerxes, Draganov) may not be accurate, and any names given may not be a person's true name. I think that there was a female player in Shetland who won some of the Fetlar Tournaments up there a few years back.
2022-09-20 21:25:30 mihkkal: @draganov Philip Winkelman wrote about Ad elta stelpur. I believe the title of that article was "An Icelandic chimera." Yes there's the many variants of Sáhkku, and there's Daldøs and Ad elta stelpur. In addition there are findings and one text indicating play of a running fight game in Novgorod and England. Also there are speculations about the nature of Scripta but they are just that. And then of course there are many interesting and old running fight game traditions in Northern Africa, and Asia from west to east.
2022-09-20 21:29:55 mihkkal: @Draganov As for the gender of players that's impossible to know online. But you could check the forum section where players introduce themselves. In the live Sámi board games sessions I've been to in the Nordic states, gender distribution appears pretty even to me, although possibly somewhat skewed towards more women than men.
2022-09-20 23:32:13 Draganov: Well, about the female players, I think the strongest that has ever played here is Camelot (rating about 1600 in her peak). I know Camelot is a female player from our chat during the games we played against each other. I saw some other female nicknames in the game archive but I think these few female players were far behind Camelot regarding the strength of play.
2022-09-21 10:09:48 Toscano: You're right Mr. Draganov, it would be better if each of us would post here something about himself. My name is Moreno Testi, male. "Toscano" is a nickname, i'm from Italy, Tuscany Region, Province of Pisa (do you remember the leaning tower? :-) ). Since few days started play Hnefatafl, because my interest in Vikings and in the North Europe culture, history, etc. This after i listened an Italian radio broadcasting about Viking ships museums, Roskilde, Oseberg, Oslo, etc.
2022-09-21 10:55:14 Hagbard: Once every few years a female might have visited here. The highest rated I know of was 1393 frisky 'Að Elta Stelpur': interesting
2022-09-25 13:08:21 Павел Дусенко: Hello. I can't understand why I was credited with losing the match against Jrton80. The rules say that 2 times for all games. Several times yesterday in some games there were warnings that they were ending, and I sent the moves. I think that I had good chances to win the game. Why do all the other games continue and I didn't lose to the bottom? Indeed, in some I made even fewer moves. Which makes me very sad. Probably the rest of the party I will salt from chagrin. Thank you.
2022-09-26 02:49:06 Павел Дусенко: Sorry. I don’t understand how, but now, when I reread the rules of the tournament, I saw an explanation about the time. I re-read the last two times and didn't see it. I don't understand how this could happen to me.
2022-09-26 16:42:52 Hagbard: ATTENTION please! Race games Round 2 starts Sep. 29th 18 o'clock Danish time. Umpire Mikkel, do you agree with the computer's list of players who move on? (xerxes, holidayinnes, Draganov, Mihkkal, Orlo)
2022-09-27 10:12:22 mihkkal: @hagbard Ok, computer!
2022-09-29 11:59:10 Draganov: @Hagbard, I played several games on the mobile app where I can make my own variant. I tested the Copenhagen rules with different setups and found out that even the setup for Tawlbwrdd Lewis cross 11x11 could be playable or at least worthy to be tested with the Copenhagen rules. I also tested a Copenhagen 11x11-w and Copenhagen Bell-w and think if the whites move first in these two variants it could be more playable and well-ballanced. Can you create a Copenhagen 11x11-w and Copenhagen Bell-w in the game options in order to test these variants with some of the players who are interested and not so busy with the world championship. PS: I am not proposing these variants for the current world championship but just want to test them.
2022-10-07 21:19:24 Dimetr: Hagbard, hello! It seems that Historical Tafl was finished, a coople of days ago. When it will be Round 2 ?
2022-10-07 21:20:26 Dimetr: Hagbard, hello! It seems that Historical Tafl was finished, a coople of days ago. When it will be Round 2 ?
2022-10-08 11:39:41 Hagbard: Three players for Hist. and Sea Round 2 still have unfinished games in the Copenhagen Round 1. The intention is to wait with Round 2 until these games are finished, so as not to disturb the games.
2022-10-09 09:27:49 Hagbard: Finished tournaments: Copenhagen Hnefatafl 11x11: #1 Draganov, #2 Garun19, #3 Alex hnefatafl Tawlbwrdd Lewis cross 11x11: #1 Draganov and Alex hnefatafl, #3 Potapych Simple Tafl T cross-w 9x9: #1 Draganov, #2 Jilles, Dimetr and Alex hnefatafl Tyr 15x15: #1 Draganov, #2 Jrton80, #3 Masterluke Saami Sáhkku 3x15: #1 Jilles and Holidayinnes, #3 Draganov and Rosk Saami Daabloe 11x9: #1 Rosk, #2 Mihkkal, #3 Draganov Simple Tafl-w 9x9: #1 Jilles and Chaolaibhne, #3 Draganov Daldos 3x16: #1 Jilles, #2 Rosk, #3 Holidayinnes Historical Hnefatafl 15x15 (Nielsen): #1 Draganov and Potapych, #3 Holidayinnes Berserk Hnefatafl 11x11: #1 Holidayinnes, #2 Draganov, #3 Jrton80 Daldos 3x14: #1 Draganov and Holidayinnes, #3 Xerxes Simple Tafl 5x5: #1 Jilles and Alex hnefatafl, #3 Draganov Simple Tafl 11x11: #1 Alex hnefatafl, #2 Potapych, #3 Rollo Daldos 3x12: #1 Rosk, #2 Xerxes and Themightyglider Historical Hnefatafl 9x9 (Saami Tablut-w): #1 Dimetr, #2 Jarcin, #3 Alex hnefatafl Saami Sáhkku 3x15: #1 Jilles, #2 Dimetr and Rosk Ard Ri-39 throneless 7x7: #1 Rollo and Alex hnefatafl, #3 Masterluke Saami Cuhkka 5x5: #1 Jrton80, #2 Rosk, #3 Mihkkal Daldos 3x16: #1 Xerxes, #2 Rosk, #3 Holidayinnes Brandubh 7x7 (Walker): #1 Colophonius, #2 Masterluke, #3 Sauron Historical Hnefatafl 13x13: #1 Draganov, #2 Jilles, #3 Jrton80 Sea battle square 9x9: #1 Draganov, #2 Kihtan and Skye Daldos 3x14: #1 Draganov, #2 Xerxes, #3 Jilles Simple Tafl-w 9x9: #1 Draganov, #2 Jrton80, Kihtan and Skye
2022-10-12 00:34:19 cacreal: Can we add a total time to make our moves to the tournament games? Asking for a friend...
2022-10-12 08:17:54 Hagbard: Do you have a value in mind?
2022-10-12 13:06:15 cacreal: The current format makes it a world record for tournament length, which in itself is noteworthy. If each player has a master timeout clock of 7 days and 1 hour per move afterwords all the round one games would be over before Sept 30th. The game itself is a beautiful one and maybe a live event in person event could be offered 2023?
2022-10-12 16:49:27 Hagbard: It's kind of a natural limitation that one can react and move in all cases only within 12-13 hours. At night you have 8 hours of sleep and a couple of hours before and after, that's 12-13 hours. At day you have 8 hours of work and a couple of hours before and after, that's again 12-13 hours.
2022-10-13 09:58:17 xerxes: @Hagbard, Cacreal: And you have to allow for time differences too.
2022-10-13 13:07:28 Hagbard: ATTENTION please! Copenhagen, Hist. and Sea Tafl Round 2 start Oct. 16th 18 o'clock Danish time. Umpire Mike, do you agree with the computer's list of Copenhagen players who move on? (floki, Dimetr, Draganov, Luizz, huzsiati, Alex Hnefatafl, Ramzi, Pavel Dusenko, cacreal, garun19, casshern, william the 3rd, Orlo) Umpire Hamish, do you agree with the computer's list of Hist. players who move on? (Potapych, Rollo, Dimetr, Draganov, Sauron, Alex Hnefatafl, casshern, frenir) Umpire Adam, do you agree with the computer's list of Sea Tafl players who move on? (Potapych, Draganov, Sauron, Alex Hnefatafl, casshern, frenir)
2022-10-14 17:02:42 Draganov: @Hagbard, could you clarify that I am the winner of the Race tournament? I also have some ideas of improvements of the Race tournament. I liked the idea of using both Daldos and Sahkku, however, I think Daldos 12 was not suitable since it is the the variant with the biggest factor of chance. In my opinion, Daldos 16 would have been more suitable for the 1st round. In Race games, playing 2 games more than the other opponents is a huge disadvantage. If I had to play against one or two opponents more in the 1st round, I would have been eliminated. However, I as a leader and Orlo as the weakest player had 2 opponents less in the 1st round. Recently I found some information about the World Championship of Senet. The game of Senet is an ancient Egyptian race game and have a lot of similiarities with Daldos and Sahkku. I think we could try a test tournament using the same tournament format that was used in the Senet championship.
2022-10-14 17:09:37 Draganov: They used Single-Elimination format and the paired players played several games against each other in every round. Matches in the first round were the best of 9 (i.e., the first player to win 5 games), later rounds the best of 15, 19 and 25 in the final. We can play a test tournament with 10 games (all games starting at once) in each round because we need to have equal number of games for both colors per player. In case of a tie (5:5) we can apply the rule for the pieces left in the player's victories. The player who has more pieces left in all of his 5 wins is the winner in the round and goes to the next round. Let me know, what do you think about such a tournament?
2022-10-14 17:11:13 Draganov: We can use Daldos 16 for the test-tournament.
2022-10-14 17:38:20 Hagbard: That is interesting. The dice games are different from pure strategic games, and it would be interesting to have a test tournament with some changes to the format especially for these games.
2022-10-14 18:23:08 Draganov: @Hagbard, would you or someone else like to play a match of 10 games of Daldos (no matter which variant) against me? Let's test if this Race match could work.
2022-10-14 18:36:31 Hagbard: The issue of tournament winner is for the umpire. - Yes I could join a ten games of Daldos, size 12 would be quickest. Though I don't have the time until perhaps tomorrow evening. Or perhaps even better at a later time, so as not to disturb your Round 2's.
2022-10-14 18:42:12 Draganov: @Hagbard, I opened 10 Daldos 12x12 games and you can join them and play when you have time. It will not disturb me for my Round 2 since I think Daldos is a very relax game.
2022-10-16 13:24:54 holidayinnes: I agree with the computer for Round 2 players advancing. Best of luck to all and let the battles begin tonight!!!!
2022-10-16 19:46:14 Hagbard: May Thor grant you strength and courage on your way
2022-10-16 23:24:17 floki: @Hagbard, could you please check my current games ? It seems like there is a bug; I am playing three time against the same player. When I click on the third game that makes me play against Luizz without being able to play any moves. Moreover, we are both ranked 1500. Then when I click “check my games” it goes back to the top menu.
2022-10-17 06:54:38 Hagbard: fixed
2022-10-17 11:52:16 chuck ward: Can someone look at my last 2 games and explain to me how I lost? Did something change in the rules I cant see? I have not been on this site in awhile so maybe, but I don't see it.
2022-10-17 12:01:58 Hagbard: Both games timed out.
2022-10-17 14:40:24 Draganov: @Hagbard, in the rules for the 2nd round it is written that: 'It is now all the way aimed at each top-half player in each round having two opponents, one stronger and one weaker as close in strength as possible, and that other players meet again four opponents.' I can't understand why I am facing three very strong opponents (Cacreal, Alex and Garun19)... am I not a top-half player? Why Cacreal and Garun19 are facing two opponents each and Casshern has only one? I really can't understand how the pairings are made. Could you explain it in more details, please!
2022-10-17 19:46:41 Hagbard: To balance the opposition. Casshern met 5 opponents (Round1 4 + Round2 1). You met 5 opponents (Round1 2 + Round2 3).
2022-10-17 22:29:59 Draganov: However, Alex faced 4 opponents in round 1 and now he has 3 opponents in round 2. Cacreal faced 4 opponents in the first round and 2 opponents in the second round. How can we balance their games? It seems that you tried to balance the tournament between me and Casshern but the tournament is not for the two of us only. What about the players in the second half of the table who faced 4 opponents in the first round and now they are playing again versus 4 opponents... The format of the championship this year looks very unclear and messy.
2022-10-18 09:41:12 casshern: @Draganov: I think this is a point you should have brought up in the first round when you only had 2 opponents. This is the format. The players at the very top and bottom play less matches. And the players in the middle play more. It makes sense to balance our games. Since together we have won around 90% of the tournaments on this site over the last 5 years. Plus, by the end of round 2 , I will have had the toughest strength of opponents of anyone. If I am still alive. To be honest, I was curious why I only had one match also. Then I saw that you had 3 matches. Giving us both 5 matches in total. We will have played each other plus 3 similar opponents and 1 different opponent. No offense to the players lower in the bracket, but they don’t have to go through the gauntlet that the players at the top have to go through. For example, even though Alex and Cacreal will play more games, they didn’t have to play against Odinhimself. Based on rankings, the strongest remaining players are Casshern, Draganov, Alex Hnefatafl, and Cacreal. I think someone from this group is likely to win the tournament. The first round had matches between Casshern/Draganov, Casshern/Alex, and Cacreal/Alex. Which coincidentally all ended in splits. The second will have matches between Casshern/Cacreal, Draganov/Cacreal, and Draganov/Alex. Meaning all the players at the top will have played each other once. Makes sense to me.
2022-10-18 10:05:54 casshern: The real issue here is that this structure/format is terrible. It is possible that all the players at the top of the bracket knock each other out in the second round. Probably not likely to happen, but it is a possibility. Then we will have a champion who didn’t have to play against any of the top players. @Draganov: You said it yourself, had you played 1 or 2 more matches in round one of the Saami Sahkku tournament you might have been knocked out. As it was, you made it through with a 1-3 game record. Orlo also only played 2 matches and went 4-0. While Xerxes was in the middle of the bracket and had to play 4 matches. In which he went 8-0. After round 2, Xerxes had an overall game record of 12-4. While Draganov and Orlo had records of 7-5. Hagbard has always been open to suggestions from players on how to improve the tournament format. Each year I have played the rules have been a little different. But I really feel we have taken a step back with the format we have used the last 2 years. Personally, I enjoy playing the best possible opponents. And if I lose that’s ok by me. But I don’t know how other players feel about this format. I think having each player play the same number of matches each round is ideal. And the opponents should be spread out more. Instead of having the top players destroy each other. But what I am describing is more of a Round Robin like previous years.
2022-10-18 10:17:50 casshern: Another thing it says in the rules is “ A match is not repeated, as far as possible.” But, I have another set of matches against Alex Hnefatafl in both HH and SB. I don’t understand why. Clearly, Draganov, Alex, and myself are the 3 best players in all variants. The first round saw matches between Casshern/Draganov and Casshern/Alex in all variants. It would make sense to me to have Draganov/Alex play in the second round. Then we would all have played each other once. Like I explained in the Copenhagen tournament, all the top players will have played each other once after round 2. Makes sense. But, I don’t understand why Alex and myself are playing each other again in both HH and SB tournaments. It just doesn’t make sense to me. When there are other opponents we could be playing against.
2022-10-18 10:31:36 Павел Дусенко: If the World Championship is a Championship, then it must have the same rules for all players. Time spent on this site should not be taken into account. Who is the best player on the site - this should not be reflected in the Championship. I lost one match due to the fact that I did not understand the meaning of the time buffer. But I played 8 matches, not 4. It's much easier to answer in 4 matches than in 8. And I didn't understand - everyone's time buffer is also different?
2022-10-18 10:34:25 Draganov: @Casshern, I understand and it makes sense regarding the balance. However, I think the format is uclear. Noone knew his next opponent or even how many opponents will have in the next round. Moreover, it is not clear if in the third round we are going to have a round-robin round with the survived players and the lost points to be cleared or we are going to have a duel and in case we have a duel between two players will the lost points be cleared or not? In the first round, I thought I am going to face 2 opponents because I was on the top of the list in the same way you faced 2 opponents last year in the first round. However, in the last year tournament, you faced again 2 opponents in the second round. I also expected to have 2 opponents this year in the round 2. I am not complaining against facing top players but I am arguing that the format is too much complicated and unclear. I do believe that elimination format is better, more attractive and interesting than round-robin groups but the system with double-elimination is really messy and difficult to understand. It is unpredictable for the players and noone knows what is going to happen in the next round. I don't know why it is so difficult to implement a simple single-elimination format even in a test tournament. In the last year I was writing about it and asking to test it but without success. Is there any difficulties of implementing simple round-robin groups in the 1st round and then having 1/2 finals and a wonderful final between the two best players? I hope in 2023 we are going to test such a format. I am really pity that most of the players are silent during the year and noone wanted to discuss the format. Guys, am I the only one who has ideas regarding the tafl game as a whole?
2022-10-18 15:08:51 cacreal: This is supposed to be a Viking game , not a message board support group for former champions that don’t move in their games but have time to complain. Round 1 many quality opponents didn’t survive - Odin, holidayinnes, sqaree, Cromwell. jilles. Plantagenet and bogd khan aren’t competing. I have lost against most opponents that play here but also beaten them all if we have played a set of games. All the opponents remaining are good - floki, dimetr, Pavel are excellent players and the new ones show promise from their games. For a tournament I agree that all players should play the same amount of games but that also includes Draganov and casshern. After this round what they consider a top player is to have played 7 pairs of games I am happy to play a seventh opponent if they also will play a 6th and 7th opponent. Maybe Plantagenet and bogh khan can be encouraged to compete against Casshern and Dragonov since they feel all opponents are beneath them ? I would also accept to play all remaining players personally that I haven’t played yet if Dragonov complaining with stop.
2022-10-18 20:23:30 Dimetr: My friend's! I like this tournament! (it's my first World championship) We are too small company to quarrel. You know, It's hard to find new players. Sometimes we playing offline, and I can show for the new players some openings from this Champ, to get them interested And strong games from this site helps Tafl to survive. Thanks Hagbard for this website, and good luck!
2022-10-18 23:24:47 Hagbard: New in gallery: Board Games Day in Zealand.
2022-10-19 11:39:32 floki: Is there any similar Board Games Day planned soon in Europe ?
2022-10-19 15:41:10 Draganov: Let's battle and finish all of the games in the tournament. Show brave play, win or lose, fight till the end. Then, I hope more players will express their thoughts on the format, the games and the tafl as a whole.
2022-10-19 21:18:46 mihkkal: @floki There's a live Sáhkku cup in Oslo Wednesday next week, and a course+live South Sámi Dablo cup in Umeå November 4th
2022-10-20 20:39:07 Skye: It took me a while to start playing here, i've won some and lost some. Overall, every game, win or lose i win some. Lets enjoy the game together.
2022-10-20 21:00:50 Skye: The level of competence or skill might not be important, the enjoyabilatly of playing (together with someone else who likes the game of tafl) might be more valuable. Just some toughts.
2022-10-20 23:01:43 floki: @mihkkal thx for the information, hopefully there will be some video available on YouTube soon. Watching some race games would definitely help me understand the tactics and encourage me to practice these games that I must say still seem obscure.
2022-10-22 12:38:05 floki: @Hagbard Hi, the Games archive search more than two years back is no longer working. Could it be fixed please ? Cheers
2022-10-23 12:20:29 Hagbard: fixed
2022-10-23 16:41:53 floki: @Hagbard Sorry to bother you again but it still doesn't seem to be working. I have tried on my laptop + phone in vain
2022-10-23 19:06:33 Hagbard: Sounds like a local cache problem. Works here on computer and phone.
2022-10-24 00:40:45 Sétanta: Hey all, I'm a new player here. At what point is a player's movement flagged as perpetual repetition? Are there specific conditions that must be met for a player to be flagged or do I need to ask for a draw, contact admin, etc.?
2022-10-24 08:22:53 Hagbard: When you do the same thing a third time in a row, or your pieces are positioned the same a third time. The software detects it. There is also a button for "Offer draw". When both players activated that button, it's a draw.
2022-10-27 18:50:39 Draganov: @Hagbard, in my game from Sea battle-204577-w 11x11 (2022-10-24, tourn. 409) against Potapych (Потапыч) it seems that he resigned on move 2 as a mistake because he probably clicked on resign button instead of sending his move. Can you start this game between me and him again?
2022-10-27 21:04:42 Colophonius: @Hagbard: In my current Brandubh Walker game against brave-frog I think we reached the exact same position on the board, could you please check that? That would be very nice
2022-10-27 21:05:50 Colophonius: *three times, we reached the position three times, that's what I wanted to say ^^°
2022-10-27 21:55:29 Hagbard: @Draganov, fixed. @Colophonius, yes seems there were three times.
2022-10-28 15:09:22 Draganov: @Hagbard, thank you! Now, it is going to be a nice tournament.
2022-10-29 17:42:40 Sétanta: I played my first match of Berserk against @JamesicusMaximus and it is unclear to me exactly how I lost. The rules state that a king capture must be 4 sides, 3 sides + adjacent throne, or two flanking commanders. I seem to have lost from being pinned between one commander and the throne, but the rules explicitly state in 5b: "When the king is not on or next to the throne, two viking commanders can sandwich and capture the king, and one commander can capture the king against one of the four restricted corner squares." Can someone help explain this to me? I will also note the board state on replay is different from that of viewing the match directly.
2022-10-29 18:04:21 Hagbard: It could unfortunately be a bug
2022-10-30 10:05:13 floki: @Hagbard Hi, Schachus, Nath and Crust appear in small characters in the ratings. Does it mean they are back ?
2022-10-30 13:44:17 Hagbard: Unfortunately not. They're mentioned on the list as World Champions even when they're not active
2022-10-30 22:09:47 Draganov: @Hagbard, I joined Thomas's invitation to play Daldos 3x12 and saw that we both started the game with three active pieces. Is this a new variant? I think this variant could be better than the old Daldos. However, is there any historical evidence that in Daldos both players start the game with already activated pieces or this is a modern invention?
2022-10-30 22:37:14 Hagbard: The concept of three pieces awaken is brought over from the Sahkku start. I have not heard of historical Daldøs sources describing this detail, but then again sources often are not fully explaining all details.
2022-10-31 21:55:48 Plantagenet: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiaKB6JNkrU
2022-11-01 06:56:56 OdinHimself: Plantagenet is getting more and more into obscure and infernal genres of metal, let's see how far he will go... 😁🤞
2022-11-01 15:15:07 Draganov: @Hagbard, why I can invite Schachus and Nath if they are not active? Is this a bug? However, I can't invite Crust. It will be great if it is possible to have a grand-tournament between champions only. Imagine a tournament between me, Casshern, Schachus, Nath, Plantagenet, Crust, Herjan and Adam or at least a tournament between some of these players. It will be really amazing. Unfortunatelly, this will probably never happen but I am just dreaming... I would like to play a match of best of 10 games against every one who was a world champion. I know that Casshern is active, Plantagenet is semi-active, Adam is here as an umpire, Herjan comes from time to time... we can create memorable match games between each other and analyze them for the benefit of the tafl game and the new players.
2022-11-01 16:49:31 Hagbard: Schachus and Nath invites is a bug, they are not there
2022-11-01 17:04:08 floki: @Hagbard: Is Plantagenet also a bug ?
2022-11-01 17:31:15 Hagbard: No he is there
2022-11-01 17:50:46 floki: @Hagbard Actually, the question was addressed to Odinhimself…..
2022-11-02 08:04:14 OdinHimself: @Floki: No, I didn't say that. Just the opposite - I am happy he's getting more "heavier". As a metal fan (myself) I respect people of same kind. That's why I am curious to see how far he will go. I am heavier than he is for now, though he's more into atmospheric kind of black metal and I like more raw and thrashy BM and also death, doom, heavy, power, viking etc. I would love to see how Plantagenet develops on the metal planet. 😁
2022-11-02 09:35:37 mihkkal: @Draganov @Hagbard The three pieces-rule in Sáhkku is also entirely novel. It's from the post-2015 revival of the game in Sápmi/Norway.
2022-11-02 09:39:58 mihkkal: (cont) it's a necessary change for most Sáhkku games if you want to tilt the chance-strategy balance toward strategy. The Sáhkku game most used in live cup play, the Lágesvuotna variant, doesn't use it though. That's because in the Lágesvuotna variant you can't capture unactivated pieces. Still a huge disadvantage to get stuck with few X'es in the beginning but only a tactical disadvantage, you don't get that situation where your opponent decimates your pieces without you being able to do anything...
2022-11-02 15:29:44 Draganov: @Hagbard, would it be too difficult to implement the Lágesvuotna variant of Sahkku in the future? It seems the most popular Sahkku variant amongst the Saami people and it also seems to be the most complex one.
2022-11-02 15:34:42 Draganov: Also what about implementing the Icelandic board game Ad Elta Stelpur which looks like very similar to the grid of Daldos. Here are some photos: https://www.instagram.com/p/CQYxVRZHQ4g/ https://www.instagram.com/p/Cf-7nzJN3s3/
2022-11-02 18:37:14 mihkkal: Something very odd just happened in a game of South Sámi Dablo. After I jumped a piece a red text popped up and said MANDATORY CAPTURE so I had to take the next one. Is something being tested out? The only Dablo game to have had mandatory capture is a Pite Sámi variant but it's very different fro the South Sámi one.
2022-11-02 21:00:31 Hagbard: Two Dablo versions Dablo: without mandatory capture Dablo-x: test with mandatory capture
2022-11-02 21:49:19 Hagbard: The Lágesvuotna is too difficult to implement. Ad Elta Stelpur seems to be a simpler version of backgammon: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SuBKKWhLTI
2022-11-03 20:52:47 Steiger: Some considerations regarding the classification of openings in the Copenhagen Hnefatafl https://youtu.be/NkD_SzDLLMY
2022-11-04 06:40:01 OdinHimself: @Steiger: Hail brother! 😃 I raise Bragafull in your honor and drink!
2022-11-04 08:35:10 Steiger: @OdinHimself, Лучо! Салют, братан! Будь здоров!
2022-11-04 18:39:30 Jrton80: @hagbard mihkkal and I had a Saami Daabloe going before our test match. The non-X variant is not doing the mandatory capture unless you have already made a capture which, I think, is rather nice - I know I have missed additional captures before, but it really should be all or nothing.
2022-11-04 19:03:02 mihkkal: Lots of people participated in today's crash-course and cup in South Sámi Dablo in Umeå, Sweden/Sápmi https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid0LYD13b7Lj7M6exeg4bZQKLkXnkqVFDTuLxodJu1jXXiZ5Htcx5qBsUdar99puvMFl&id=100063738816395
2022-11-04 19:25:57 Hagbard: @Jrton80: about the Dablo, it was a bug and is corrected. All captures in the Dablo are voluntary, also after the first capture -
2022-11-04 20:02:39 Jrton80: @hagbard Great thanks!
2022-11-05 07:30:16 Hagbard: Many educational tafl videos from Steiger here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgwQwKg7Bb4iD7In9XHzx1A/videos Good work!!!
2022-11-07 15:20:05 Draganov: @Hagbard, I saw that in the Sea Battle tournament only I and Casshern are moved to the 3rd round and Potapych and Alex are eliminated without losing 4 games in the 2nd round. The same situation happened in the Historical tornament where after the 2nd round 7 players had less than 2 lost points in the 2nd round but the final will be between Dimetr and Casshern. In the beginning of the 2nd round of the Historical and Sea tournament, it seemed that all survived players started with cleared lost points. It was misleading and made a wrong impression that the players just need to survive another round without losing 4 games. I think it would have been better if we just had a round-robin round with the survived players and put an end of this messy tournament.
2022-11-07 17:12:28 Hagbard: The result of Hist.Hnef. Round 1 & 2 are the losses: Dimetr 0.5 + 0.5 = 1 Casshern 0.5 + 1 = 1.5 Draganov 1 + 1 = 2 Frenir 1 + 1.5 = 2.5 Alex hnefatafl 1.5 + 1 = 2.5 Rollo 1.5 + 1.5 = 3 Potapych 1.5 + 1.5 = 3 Sauron 0.5 + 3 = 3.5 The result of Sea Tafl Round 1 & 2 are the losses: Casshern 0 + 0.5 = 0.5 Draganov 1 + 0.5 = 1.5 Potapych 1 + 1.5 = 2.5 Alex hnefatafl 1 + 1.5 = 2.5 Frenir 1.5 + 2 = 3.5 Sauron 1 + 3 = 4
2022-11-07 17:35:57 Draganov: Yes, I understand it now but why we started the 2nd round with cleared lost points? And what is going to happen now in the forthcoming finals? Are the players going to step into the final with cleared points or the already lost points will be preserved? What will be the amount of games that will be played between the two finalists? What will be the variant/variants? Sorry, Hagbard, you are doing great job as the man who keeps the tafl alive and provide us with this great website and platform where we can play tafl, but this tournament is terrible and absolute mess. All of this uncertainty is too much for me. I am not going to play a final round in the Sea Battle tournament against Casshern. He can be declared as the winner. He is definately the strongest player and he proved it with his play. So, congratulations to Casshern for winning the Sea battle tournament and good luck to him and Dimetr in the Historical final. I am going to retire after the end of the Copenhagen tournament. I hope that my legacy as a world champion is good, I won many tournaments this year, revived some old and forgotten variants, helped some new players to improve their tafl skills and tried to contribute to the community with my comments in the forum. I want to apologize to everyone who felt offended from my comments. Everyone who wants to keep communicating with me can drop me a message on FB or gmail. My gmail is: p.draganov87 at gmail.com My FB is: https://www.facebook.com/plamen.draganov.182
2022-11-07 18:01:30 Hagbard: Dimetr and Casshern will start a Hist.Hnef. Holmgang with the losses 1 and 1.5. One match (2 games). Tawlbwrdd. Copenhagen Round 3: The players will bring their losses and play as a ring. Everyone meets two opponents (4 games). Fx. a group of players A, B, C and D would play the matches A-B, B-C, C-D, D-A
2022-11-07 18:38:35 Draganov: Ok, this is little bit clearer. We need to know the details of the format in advance. Otherwise, it is ver confusing. I suppose if I am going to play a final round against Casshern in the Sea Battle, it will be the same as in the Historical final. We both are going to keep the losing points and play a match or two between each other. I would like to play against him in the final of the Sea battle just because I want to be eliminated as a warrior and not just leave the tournament. Could ou clarify the details, the variants and the amount of games?
2022-11-07 19:04:40 Hagbard: That's correct. Casshern and you will start the Sea Tafl Holmgang with losses 0.5 and 1.5. One match (2 games). Sea battle-204577-w 11x11.
2022-11-07 19:15:16 Draganov: Ok, I will play in the Sea battle final. Btw, I just want to finish my games in the right way and then I will retire from active play. I will probably continue to be active as a commentator in the forum and probably play from time to time single games but not participate in tournaments.
2022-11-11 17:14:19 sqAree: How is repetition of position/moves handled in Simple Tafl? And what happens if one player doesn't have any legal moves (no information in the rules here)?
2022-11-12 07:57:26 Hagbard: It's the same as in the other variants. The only exception is Fetlar where the repetitions are allowed and become = draw.
2022-11-14 20:54:40 MasterLuke: @Hagbard: may I suggest something? Since in Brandubh 7x7 Walker the 'throne' is friendly and the king is captured by 2 even when on it, one can state there is no throne at all. Just like simple tafl, sea battle and Tyr. Therefore wouldn't it be a good idea to NOT mark the central tile in darker green, but make it the same lighter green as the surrounding tiles. It will be a visual help for players not to forget the special rules.
2022-11-15 09:14:34 Hagbard: True. In the Walker version the throne has only one property left: that the square can only be used by the king. So your suggestion is a small change which probably wouldn't change the balance etc. And since the friendly throne does not do very much, it would be a simplification to not have a friendly throne together with hostile corners. However I hesitate to change the game, since Walker describes it this way. Maybe I could do a fork one of these days - add a version2 with this small change.
2022-11-15 09:14:35 Draganov: @MasterLuke, the throne in Walker's Brandubh has a protective function to the ordinary pieces. The thorne is friendly and can be used to make an ordinary piece almost immortal.
2022-11-15 09:24:19 Hagbard: True. I forgot that one. So the throne has a function.
2022-11-15 12:20:22 Masterluke: @Hagbard and @Dragonov: you guys are right about that. Now I can’t help but wondering ‘what if there was indeed no throne at all’ so every piece can enter the central square and there would be no protective function? Of course, the starting position and hostile corners should remain. Could be another interesting variant?
2022-11-16 18:28:26 Hagbard: This very idea was actually tested July-Aug. 2016, Brandubh throneless cross 7x7, game balance -2.50 from 15 games.
2022-11-18 19:39:35 brave-frog: Hello everyone! The game Daabloe isn't balanced. Black always win. Look at this sequence http://aagenielsen.dk/dablo/dabloReplay.php?netspil1x=32315f32313735395f73
2022-11-18 19:41:58 brave-frog: Can we fix it and restrict forward movements? The user can capture like usual but can go only in diagonal directions
2022-11-18 21:51:32 Hagbard: !!!!! Well discovered!! So this is a reason why mandatory capture is not mentioned in historical sources about Dablo! This was a test of mandatory capture with Dablo and other rules should not be changed. Now the test has on the contrary proved that Dablo cannot have mandatory capture, thank you! This forum note explains how the idea for this test came about: http://aagenielsen.dk/hnefataflforum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&p=1715
2022-11-18 22:08:41 brave-frog: No the game might be playable. Can we test regular moves diagonal only, but jumps in any directions?
2022-11-18 22:51:40 Hagbard: No sorry, I don't want to mess with the classic Saami game. I suspected that the capture rule might've been forgotten in the sources, but now it's clear that it's not so
2022-11-19 00:02:12 brave-frog: Sorry for bothering but why mess? It can be a modern Dablo variant!
2022-11-19 07:26:55 Hagbard: It will not be in the program for now. - But you can still do the experiment: If you agree with your opponent to always capture and to only move this way, this way you can test the idea.
2022-11-19 08:58:10 Hagbard: Now your experiment is "Daabloe Frisian" in "more games".
2022-11-19 12:00:23 Hagbard: Full Monty Dablo Frisian2: Officers can go backwards, and promotion of men to princes.
2022-11-19 17:03:46 Hagbard: Dablo-x and Dablo Frisian -> Dablo Frisian0 Dablo Frisian2 -> Dablo Frisian
2022-11-19 18:36:19 Hagbard: The Dablo Frisian test tournament: Mandatory capture. Pieces move only diagonally forward, but capture in all directions as usual. Kings and princes can move backwards. Men on the last row are promoted to princes.
2022-11-19 21:52:10 brave-frog: Please note about an initial trap! if you see a threat h8-i7 please respond i5-h6 to avoid the trap! http://aagenielsen.dk/dablo/dabloReplay.php?netspil1x=33385f32393435385f73
2022-11-19 23:05:03 Hagbard: happened to me many times -
2022-11-22 19:00:01 Hagbard: Oct. 12th there was a question about timing. It's a difficult subject, here's one idea: http://aagenielsen.dk/hnefataflforum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&p=1717#p1717 If there is a Round 4 perhaps it could be tested there?
2022-11-24 03:15:31 Riiem: Hi there, hope the tafl community is doing well! I took a two years break of playing online, then i just came back here and on a tafl app. I only played with kids over last two years so i get to take the rust off! See you on the Tafl Board!
2022-11-24 10:53:27 floki: @Riiem : Bienvenue!
2022-11-25 08:16:01 casshern: Thank you Hagbard for bringing up the timing issue again. I have been meaning to post on it but I haven’t had the time. Actually, I have a lot of things I’d like to talk about. But it seems every time I post here now a days, I end up sounding like an ass. Well, at least that’s how I feel about it. Regardless, I’ll try to be as constructive as possible. Regarding the current timing used in the championship tournament. I think its good. I read the forum post you linked and the other suggestions would shorten the buffer too much, I think. In year’s past the “move” buffer was 24 or 25 hours, if I remember correctly. And I don’t really see a difference in the tournament length. Each round of Copenhagen usually takes roughly a month. Draganov mentioned players dragging out their games. This always happens. It’s happening even now. There is just no preventing these delays. A solution for this would perhaps be to give the judge(s) the power to declare a winner without having to wait weeks for the games to naturally finish. I don’t know though. That would probably go against the integrity of the game. It’s just a suggestion.
2022-11-25 08:45:39 casshern: To be honest, the main reason why my activity has drastically declined is because of the time buffer. Prior to 2020, I don’t think I ever timed out a game. Probably in my first 1,000 games, never a time out. Then left and right I was timing out games. Even in this tournament, 2 time outs. I do agree that a 13 hour move buffer is better than a 25 hour buffer though. I started timing out games on the site because I became busier with other things in my life. And Tafl wasn’t a priority for me as it once was. I was devastated when I timed out the two games in this tournament. This is what happened that day. Like everyday, I woke up at 6 am to get ready for the day. Which includes making my moves in my games. Periodically, I would think to myself, I need to make my moves before about 7pm. But as the day went by more and more things came up. So by the time 10pm came around I finally was able to sit down to look at my games. To my horror, I had lost (timed out) 2 games to Alex. Don’t get me wrong though. It was completely my fault. And to that point, Cacreal was nice enough to point out that at the start of the second round, I took the time to post in this forum rather than make my moves in my games. Which caused me to deplete my 4 day buffet quicker. But what is weird is at some point, maybe around 2 days left in the buffet, the buffer stops regenerating like it normally does. @Hagbard can you clear this up for me. At what point does the buffet stop replenishing itself like it normally does?
2022-11-25 09:12:44 casshern: Unfortunately, some of us who play here don’t have as much time on our hands to commit to these games as players like Draganov and Alex Hnefatafl. This is why the time buffet is and will continue to be any issue. Regardless, we have to draw the line somewhere, right? I think the buffer is good. I would just like more clarity on exactly how it works. Because in my other games the buffer didn’t run down as much as it did in my games with Alex. Is that simply because he makes his moves immediately after I make mine? @Cacreal: I chose to post here because I thought (and still think) that I had a valid point/complaint to make. Draganov posts here all the time. The difference is he has more time to commit her than I do. I haven’t played here since last year’s tournament, but it feels like Draganov and myself have most opinions to express here. Like last year when I thought Alex’s actions in the tournament were unsportsmanlike and created an advantage for some players. While you were the one who was affected in a negative way. I spoke up for you. But not only for you, but for anyone who would have been in your position. And I lost a lot of respect for many players here who were ok with what I thought was blatant cheating (game fixing). That was my opinion of the situation and I spoke it. Now I am trying to help fix what seems to be a bad tournament structure. A tournament structure that Draganov advocated for, I might add. Which he has since trashed. Like I have asked before, what was wrong with the round robin format that we used to use? Draganov wasn’t satisfied with it?
2022-11-25 09:34:48 casshern: Now I will go back to the point I was making about a month ago. In the 3 Talf tournaments, Copenhagen, HH, and SB, Draganov, Casshern, and Alex were the only players in the top 6 who moved on to round 2, in each tournament. I think I have a solution for this issue, but I will explain it later. It is just such a disadvantage for players to start out in the too 6 in this format. Vice verse, it is a bug advantage to not have to play against what I will just refer to as the big 3. So far, its looking like Cacreal maybe the only player to survive against the big 3. Even a player as good as Odinhimself can’t survive against 2 of the big 3. Garun19 I will note, has done very well against the big 3. At least, 2 of the big 3. But this is my point. Why not give other players the chance to play against the best and prove themselves? Instead, we have Casshern and Alex playing against each in the first and second rounds??? This is a match up for a grand final, no? Instead, we have to keep playing each other until we eliminate each other and someone else is crowned the champion?
2022-11-25 10:03:41 casshern: Think about it. If Draganov, Casshern, and Alex each play each other once in the first two rounds, there are 3 possibilities. 1. They all end up with at least 1 match lose. 2. They end up with at least 0.5, 1, and 1.5 loses respectively. Or 3. One of them gets eliminated (simply by playing against the other 2). Which unfortunately was the case for Odinhimself in the first round. Naturally because we are playing other players as well, we will accumulate more loses. Like in HH, where Jilles beat Casshern and Alex, once each. Unfortunately, he got swept by Draganov and wasn’t able to advance to the second round. I swept Draganov and Alex giving them 1 and 1.5 loses respectively. In round 2, since Draganov and Alex were going to play a set of games against each other, one of them (maybe both) would be eliminated. Which is exactly what happened. They split their games, eliminating Alex. And Rollo managed to beat Draganov, eliminating him too. This is the kind of opportunities for other players that I have been talking about. Instead, Alex and I are matching up again, quite unnecessarily, and I timed out one of the games. My point again is that it was not necessarily. We could have been matched up against other players. For example Dimetr, who advanced to the final round having only played against me, of the big 3. Granted he was able to beat me in one game. Which was well deserved. I just think we should be meeting in the final on equal footing, at 1 lose each. Instead, I have an extra lose against Alex in a game in which I thought was not necessary. And Dimetr didn’t have to play Draganov or Alex. I played 3 matches against them.
2022-11-25 10:17:00 casshern: Its even worse in SB. Were again the big 3 had to play 4 matches against each other. Again Casshern and Alex playing an extra match in the second round. Again, I timed out a game against Alex in a match that wasn’t necessary as I swept him in the first round and Draganov swept him in the second round, eliminating him. Instead, my only lose was the time out. I should be sitting at 0 loses. It was really unfortunate for Alex in this tournament in particular, as his only loses were to me and Draganov. In fact, for the big 3, outside of the loses to each other only Draganov lost another game, to Potapych. Congrats to Potapych, Rollo, Dimetr, Jilles, Cacreal, Garun19, and anyone else who was able win a game against Draganov, Casshern, or Alex. I know it is not easy against any of us. And any win against us is well deserved. I just wish this tournament was more balanced and had more opportunity like this.
2022-11-25 10:31:48 Hagbard: @Casshern, thank you for commenting! There are two issues: timing and format. As for timing. The reduction of the minimum timeout from 25 hours 2020 to 13 hours 2021 had an effect: The tournament length was halved from 186 days 2020 to 89 days 2021. But 2021 is also when some unfortunate timeouts started to happen. This year unfortunate timeouts have happened to OdinHimself, Holidayinnes, Steiger, Luizz, Orlo, Pavel Dusenko, Rollo, MasterLuke, Casshern, Sauron, Kihtan, and I am sorry for that. The timing tightens this way: At start you have 4 days time buffer plus 1 day for the move. When your part of the game time passes 4 days, the time per move is slowly reduced. When the time buffer is emptied and turns negative, the minimum timeout is slowly reduced from initially 25 hours and ending at 13 hours. The timing problem is a great challenge. Naturally the players have a life, and still it must be easy for all to participate in the tournament. On the other hand it's also important that the games and the tournament don't last too long.
2022-11-25 10:55:45 casshern: I know I’m just complaining in hindsight here. But, I do feel like my complaints are valid. I’m sorry to anyone who is offered or put off by my post. If not for their content then for the length of the posts. I really am just trying to improve the system here. @Hagbard: Here is my suggestion to make this format more balanced. I know this format puts players against other players of equal skill. Round robin puts players of skill levels that are more widely spread. My suggestion is to blend these 2 concepts. Still 1 big double elimination bracket with all the players. Secondly, I think each player should play the same amount of games in each rounds. Perhaps, round 1 - 4 matches each. Round 2 - 3 matches each. Round 3 - 2 matches or a bracket of remaining players. It really just depends on how many players make it to round 3. I haven’t gone through all the scenarios. Third, players cannot play against the same opponent from round 1 in round 2. The bracket itself is similar to a regular bracket that would put #1v#8 #2v#7 etc. But a bit modified to be as balanced as possible. Through trial and error I found a pattern that I think works. If you could lay it out on a bracket it would be much easier to visualize. It would looke like this. I will list the player first and then who the 4 opponents will be. #1 - 4 5 8 11 #2 - 3 6 7 12 #3 - 2 6 9 13 #4 - 1 5 10 14 #5 - 1 4 7 15 #6 - 2 3 8 16 #7 - 2 5 9 14 #8 - 1 6 10 13 #9 - 4 7 11 15 #10 - 3 8 12 16 #11 - 1 9 13 15 #12 - 2 10 14 16 #13 - 3 7 11 15 #14 - 4 8 12 16 #15 - 5 9 11 13 #16 - 6 10 12 14
2022-11-25 10:58:32 casshern: I only checked a bracket with 16 players. Presumably, I with more players, the bracket would look the same at the top. Then there is the ladder pattern that develops. And it would probably just continue with more players. And the bottom of the bracket would look roughly the same.
2022-11-25 10:58:56 Hagbard: The other issue, the format, is also a great challenge. I described the thoughts about the format more accurately here: http://aagenielsen.dk/diagonalformat.php http://aagenielsen.dk/diagonalformat_race.php
2022-11-25 11:11:17 casshern: @Hagbard. Thanks for the response. I agree with you on the timing. And like Cacreal said, it still feels like it takes forever. If it’s true that time outs are up then that is very unfortunate. Would anyone else like to give there option on the timing issue? Do you think the 13 hour move buffer is good/okay. Or would you like it better to be 25 hours? Or maybe 17 hours? The real question being would you prefer the tournament to finish quicker or for more games to be completed. Personally, I don’t mind the length of the tournament. I really don’t like to see games time out. I know Odinhimself was disappointed to time out a game against me. And we all know that games will get dragged out regardless. There’s just no helping it. Perhaps judge’s intervention is an option? This is probably a thread for the large forum. Im sorry to always spam here. I just never really use or look at the large forum anymore.
2022-11-25 11:40:55 casshern: Boy, it’s well passed my bedtime, but I have just one more thought to add regarding the format. Regarding round 3. Not for this year, of course. But possibly for the future. Although, I think it could apply for this year as well. In round 3, if there are 3 or more players still alive then any players who have not played each will now play each. Still no repeat matches And depending on where the players are in their loses, try to keep the games to a minimum. The wording here is not great but essentially it means that at this point in the tournament, some players may have to play more games that others. Example 1: only 3 players remaining and A/B have already played. Then A/C and B/C will play each. A/B would not be repeat. Or if C already played A and B. Then the only match would be A/B. Example 2: 4 players remaining. Lets say A already played B C and D. Then A doesn’t have any matches in round 3. Basically, just trying to match up players who haven’t played against each other at this point. But no need to max out the games. If we know that C and D have 1.5 loses each or 1 and 1.5 loses respectively, then they only need to play against each other. Keeping in mind the fundamental principles of equal amount of games if possible and for each player to play everyone once if possible.
2022-11-25 12:51:50 cacreal: I have waited now for an hour after my last move before posting this . Which means by his own rules the current world champ is eliminated :) Get ready ! Round 3 Copenhagen will start as soon as my opponent retires, gets called for a repetition or the match is called a draw. Without intervention and with the current timing the game could last indefinitely. @Draganov - you complain about long time to make moves and do it yourself all the time, including yesterday. I challenge you to play 10 moves today and then retire so round 3 can start for the remaining players. The longest game move wise in this tournament has been 201. Can the game be capped at a certain move number ? Like 205 ? And then the umpire makes a call ? For a champion to not make it to a final round does give weight to @casshern ´s input. Alternatively I would suggest that casshern, dimetr, pavel, garun could start the 3 round if Draganov vs cacreal continues. Timing - a master move or elapsed time clock when it is your move would clearly show or be great incentive to play diligently. Even two weeks per player total would ensure a round is only a month. If your two weeks to play elapses your move clock could be reduced significantly. For example while I have been playing Draganov I have played Dimetr and Pavel in a set of interesting games and all were completed. I also played a set of complete games with casshern this round that ended weeks ago. Maybe the umpires can collectively look at our game and make a decision ? I do realize posting here may slow my game down even more but that is the current timing rules and I am learning to be patient from past years games. Using casshern suggested round 3 match ups he would face play dimetr, Pavel and Garun. Dimetr would play Pavel , Garun, casshern, and me . Garun would play casshern, dimetr, myself or just the first two. I would play Dimetr, Pavel and Garun. Dragonov will retire if he doesn’t make it out of this round. In a sportsmanlike effort I wil
2022-11-25 12:58:15 cacreal: In a sportsmanlike manner I will accept a draw even though Draganov should lose from repetitions. @Draganov - I believe you can play some moves today and our game will be officially the longest :)
2022-11-25 13:20:52 Hagbard: Afterwards I'll probably copy the posts of this discussion to the large forum, where they will be easier to find again later. After the World Tourn., would it be fun to have a Beat The Winners tournament? Fx. for Copenhagen: We'll then know the winner #1. By the Performance Rating method we also know #2 and #3. Then a tournament for everybody else to beat these three. The three don't play against each other, and all others also don't play against each other. The same for Hist.Hnef., Sea Tafl and Race Games.
2022-11-25 14:09:08 cacreal: @hagbard i would enjoy a chance to play Plantagenet and Death. The two top rated not in the world tournament. Your idea does sound like fun.
2022-11-25 14:14:49 floki: @Hagbard Great idea ! I am into it. I mainly joined the world tournament to face the greatest especially, Casshern who only appears once a year 😜
2022-11-25 15:32:43 Hagbard: The Dablo Frisian2 test tournament: Mandatory capture. Pieces move only forward (3 directions), but capture in all directions as usual (8). Kings and princes can move in all directions (8). Men on the last row are promoted to princes.
2022-11-25 15:43:11 Draganov: @Cacreal, you are about to stop me in the greatest blockade I have ever seen and probably the greatest game ever. I am open to finish this game today. I am playing slower than usual because I am too busy at the moment. It is difficult to be as active as I used to be when I am expecting my wife to give birth in the next weeks or even days and I am also busy at work. You can probably asked your father too why he is prolonging his game against me too? Maybe after I finish the game againt you, the round 3 can start. I will be eliminated and my game against Garun19 can be finished while the players who reached round 3 play against each other.
2022-11-25 16:04:52 Draganov: @Casshern, I am also grateful for your comment. I value it because you have a lot of experience and you are the highest rated player. However, it is important to see the opinion of the other players regarding the time buffer and the format. Sometimes I think that very few players are trying to make improvements and suggestions on the development of the game and the tournament formats. I just want to clarify that I have never advocated for a tournament format like this. I have never proposed double elimination format. If I have to be honest, I have never heard about such a tournament format before Hagbard implementing it last year. What I do advocate and proposed so many times but noone even express a thought about it is a mixed tournament with round-robin and SINGLE elimination. This is my suggestion for the format of the world championship: ROUND 1) -> 4 groups with Round-robin format (the winners from each groups are moving to the next round) ROUND 2) -> Semi-finals with single elimination... the paired players are playing a match of 8 games. All of the games start at once. ROUND 3) -> Final match between the two best players... a match of 10 games. This format is easy to understand and will most likely produce the best player as a champion. In case of a tie we can use an additional criteria as a separator or just play another set of games to have a clear winner. As additional criteria we can use: 1) the performance in the previous round (the player who won more points in round 1 is the winner in case of a tie in round 2) 2) the rating or the performance during the calendar year (if both players won the same amount of points in R1 then the winner is the player with better performance during the year) I do believe that in the final, we must not use additional criterias to find the winner but in case of a tie, the finalists must play another set of games, probably in different variants. The benefit of such a tournament is that it will last just 3 round
2022-11-25 16:05:36 Draganov: The benefit of such a tournament is that it will last just 3 rounds and after R1 most of the players except the four semi-finalists will be free for new challenges. Even if the tournament continues for months, it will occupies only 4 players. It will produce at least 26 games on the highest level (16 games in the semi-finals and 10 games in the final). Even the weakest player will not be eliminated after just 4 games but will play in the R1 against 6-7 opponents. Could you please give your opinion on this format?
2022-11-25 16:12:49 Draganov: @Hagbard, the idea to play a tournament against the winner or against the top players is absolutely great. I am open to play against everyone. I will retire from tournament play but I am open for interesting challenges. I am open to play a match against Casshern (not to prove that I am the better player, it is obvious that I am not) but just to produce interesting games between high rated players. I am open to play matches against Cacreal, Garun19, Alex, OdinHimself and Plantagenet in his own variant (Plantagenet wants to play only in his own variant). I am open to play matches against everyone even the weakest player. As a retired player, I just want to play matches and not tournaments.
2022-11-25 19:34:23 brave-frog: Hello everyone! May I put my two cents in your conversation? Why don't you want to use Swiss tournament system? It’s a standard format in chess for example
2022-11-25 21:19:20 Dimetr: Draganov is right, it will be interesting to create some groups of player in the Round 1 (like in football championship), and the winner, or the first two players in the group - will go to the round 2
2022-11-25 22:37:29 brave-frog: In Daldos it’s possible to move twice the same pawn. Move a pawn one time, click on another activated pawn, which can’t move, and click on the pawn that has been moved already, and you can move it again. Is it a rule or a bug?
2022-11-25 23:59:21 Hagbard: a bug
2022-11-27 16:53:53 Draganov: @Hagbard, I am sorry to say that but you made another wrong decision to add the new time buffer for the remaining two games of the round 2. It gives additional 11 hours to Cacreal's time buffer. I offered draw in my game against him and he refused. I don't mind to leave the tournament as I am practically eliminated with the draw. However, I just don't think making changes during the games is right.
2022-11-27 17:09:24 Hagbard: The timing method has no effect. The minimum timeout is always 13 hours for these two games.
2022-11-27 17:53:50 Draganov: @brave-frog, the Swiss format is interesting but very slow in correspondence games. If we use Swiss format, we will need at least 5 rounds in order to have a clear winner. Imagine if in each round one of the games takes more than 200 moves. It will take months the tournament to be finished
2022-11-27 20:09:29 cacreal: @draganov - i think the new timing briefly was posted to show everyone you took an extra 4 days to make the moves in our current game. Last year I was forced into a repetition playing you and had to make moves in new rows or columns or resign. In the past you also never accepted my offer for a draw. This year you have the same option to resign or send your remaining pawns to Valhalla before your king is captured or lose by repetition.
2022-11-28 15:11:04 Hagbard: ATTENTION please! Copenhagen, Hist. and Sea Tafl Round 3 start Dec. 1st 18 o'clock Danish time. Umpire Mike, do you agree with the computer's list of Copenhagen players who move on? (Dimetr, Pavel Dusenko, garun19, casshern) (a fifth player is either Cacreal or Draganov and is added later when possible) Umpire Hamish, do you agree with the computer's list of Hist.Hnef. players who move on? (Dimetr, casshern) Umpire Adam, do you agree with the computer's list of Sea Tafl players who move on? (Draganov, casshern) NB!!! If it should happen that all players are eliminated: The player with the fewest losses won. If there are more players with the same fewest number of losses: Direct comparison of the games between the tied players counted for all rounds. If this is also even, the player who in the comparison won with the shortest sum of game lengths counted for all rounds, is the winner. (If a game was resigned, the number of moves it would take to finish the game, is added.) If the game lengths differ by less than 10%, they're considered equal. Or new rounds between the tied players until the winner is found.
2022-11-29 11:12:36 casshern: @Hagbard: In case of a tie between players, I have never liked tiebreakers such as, quickest game or least amount of pieces captured. I don’t think the strength of opponent would work here either. Since the higher seeded players have had better opponents. I can’t think of anything better than to play another round. Like Plantagenet and I did in 2017. @Draganov: The main thing I worry about with your format proposal is what if two players split games with each other and swept everyone else in the group? They both couldn’t move on. Then we would have to rely on some subjective tiebreaker. Same would go for the Semis and Final round. What if the players split their games? This is my 6th WTF tournament on this site and things have always naturally worked themselves out. I think round robin or double elimination work well because each player gets to play against many different opponents. In Draganov’s proposed format, a player could be eliminated with only 1 game lose. By some random tiebreaker that we think best quantities who the best/better player is.
2022-11-29 11:27:50 casshern: I don’t mind this double elimination format that has been used the last couple of years. Though, we can definitely improve upon it. I have already made some suggestions about that. Mainly, spreading out the opponents to make it more balanced. Maybe meet in the middle between a round robin (that evenly spreads out all players) and this current format that puts all same skilled players against each other. Also, not sure if this is the case this year (if not maybe another suggestion for next year), but for round 3 (and beyond, in necessary) of HH and SB, if opponents meet for a second time, they should play the variant that they have not played against each other yet. For example, for HH and SB round 3 this year, Dimetr and I would play Tablut and Draganov and I would play SB 11x11. If players are still tied then they would keep alternating variants round after round until a winner is found.
2022-11-29 15:25:15 Hagbard: The game length tie breaker is to save time, to avoid another round of perhaps a month. But there's also another reason. If just two players meet in a Final, then there's a high chance that they are very even, and they could go rather indefinitely round after round without finding a winner. When you met Plantagenet in the Final 2017 you were very even, and it was only a miracle that the next round was not a tie also. --- I like your idea of using the variant not played before!
2022-11-29 20:46:56 Hagbard: Timing. 12000 games of 2021 and 2022 were inspected in view of timing, and timing out extremely slow games in 3 hours would've affected only a handful of those games. And only 2 of 1000 games would've got below 8 hours. http://aagenielsen.dk/hnefataflforum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&p=1721
2022-11-29 21:20:57 Dimetr: I'm also like the idea of changing variant. And I'd like to play Tablut-W, if Casshern doesn't mind. Hagbard - maybe we'll play Tablut-W in the final?
2022-11-29 21:33:39 Hagbard: Saami Tablut-w it is!
2022-11-29 21:58:12 Dimetr: Oh really! It's great!
2022-11-30 08:29:30 Hagbard: The new timing is active, so that an extremely time consuming game can risk to end with a 3 hour window for timeout. But this does not apply to the World Tourn. games.
2022-11-30 08:30:15 casshern: Tablut-W makes sense to me. Since we split our Tawlbwrdd games. Good luck Dimetr!!!
2022-11-30 08:35:30 casshern: @Hagbard @Umpire Mike: Cacreal can also be added to the list of players moving on to the third round of Copenhagen, correct? Good Luck to everyone in round 3!!!
2022-11-30 08:39:32 Hagbard: That's what the computer says -
2022-11-30 09:30:55 Hagbard: NB!! Round 3 tomorrow 18 o'clock Danish time.
2022-11-30 16:48:44 holidayinnes: Cacreal have also advanced to the third round in Coppenhagan. Best of luck to all. SKUL!!!
2022-12-01 16:46:58 Hagbard: May Odin give you knowledge on your path.
2022-12-01 17:52:07 Draganov: @Casshern, I understand that if we use single elimination with matches, we can have a situation in which the result is equal 4:4 or 5:5. However, the problem with the tied players/teams occures in every sport. For example, in Football, we could have a team that won all of the games in the group and then being eliminated in the next round after a draw and penalty shootouts. In boxing or MMA we have a judge decision and during the years we witnessed a lot of controversial decisions. So, separating tied players is really a problem in every kind of sport. If we use only round-robin groups, we also could have a situation in which two, three or even more players beat all the others and split against each other. However, we can't prolong the tournament for months or the whole year. So, additional criterias could be used. I proposed a group or round-robin for the R1 and if two or three players are tied, then we need to allow only one of them to go to the 1/2 finals. To find a winner between the tied players, we can use another round between them or additional criteria such as Sonneborn–Berger score or even game-length based on all of their games in the round. Then, we will have a player who will be ahead of the other tied player and it will be OK because in that particular moment one of the players was just little bit better than the other. The same like in football, one of the teams were little bit better to win the penalty shootouts. It is bad for the eliminated player to be eliminated with such a small difference in the result but we just need to have one winner from each clash.
2022-12-02 05:53:48 casshern: Ok so here is what I have been trying to explain. We have always done groups of round robin and for the last two years double elimination. And It hasn’t failed yet to determine a winner. The closest we got was when Plantagenet and I had to go to a third round. A tiebreak round we called it at the time. Unfortunately, the Sonneborn–Berger tiebreaker didn’t work then because we lost to the same opponent. The only tiebreaker I am ok with is Sonneborn–Berger. But like you say, it is an issue in every sport. For example in baseball, basketball, or football, you might have 2 teams meet in the championship that have different skills. One team might be good offensively and the other better defensively. It comes down to who can win. It doesn’t matter if a team wins by a lot or a little. Same here. If a player doesn’t want it to come down to tiebreakers, he/she should just win all their games. Since, this rarely happens, directly compassion of games against different opponents is the best tiebreaker in my opinion. And if Sonneborn–Berger can determine a winner than I am okay with that. I don’t like it, but I think it’s the best tiebreaker. My last suggestion would be to follow your suggestion. If there are 2 or 3 players remaining at some point. Have them play multiple games against each other. I would also be ok with crowning co-champions if need be.
2022-12-02 06:57:42 Hagbard: In the Copenhagen tourn. three players all have 2 losses: Sqaree, OdinHimself and Toscano. If this is used as a test example, how could a winner of these three be found? The Performance Ratings in the tournament are Sqaree 1760 OdinHimself 1743 Toscano 1193 so by this parameter Sqaree is the winner.
2022-12-02 08:29:39 casshern: So far, I don’t see the need for these parameters. But perhaps we can speculate more after the 3 round is finished.
2022-12-02 17:57:13 Draganov: @Hagbard, your test example is used in the context of this double-elimination tournament. I think if we use it in a round-robin it will give better result. In the double-elimination tournament OdinHimself faced much stronger competition than Sqaree.
2022-12-02 18:01:24 Draganov: @Casshern, what do you personally think about an exhibition match of 10 games in the Copenhagen variant between you and me. I am expecting a baby and will not be able to focus on the game by the end of the year and you are involved in the R3 of the world championship. However, I think if you agree, we can play such a match in the Spring of 2023. After the match, we can provide some comments on the games and analyses and publish them in the forum for the benefit of the development of the game. Let me know if such a match would be interesting for you.
2022-12-03 07:31:35 casshern: Sounds good to me. We can play in February or March. I am also up for Hagbard’s idea of a “Beat the Winners” tournament. I will accept any challenge in the following variants: Copenhagen, Tablut, Welsh Tawlbwrdd, Simple Tafl, Berserk, and Sea Battle 9x9. I would also play Sea Battele 11x11, but either the cross or circle set up. I don’t really think the set up used in the tournament is very playable. Depending how many games I would end up playing, would probably have to stagger the start of the games. I could probably handle about 10 matches at a time. Or when I finish at least half the games, I could start another 10 matches. Im guessing Draganov would also be open to this challenge. Not sure of his preferences on variants and how many games he can handle at one time. I know at one point he challenged himself to 100+ games at once. Amazing! Unfortunately, I don’t have the time for so many games at once. But I will try to focus more on being more active here.
2022-12-03 08:02:04 casshern: @Steiger: Do you still correspond with Ded Fomich. I would love to play more games of Tablut with him.
2022-12-03 08:30:40 casshern: Not sure if this was mentioned yet, but this the 15th year that a Tafl champion will be crowned, going back to the first tournament on Fetlar Island in 2008. It is also the 10th year that a champion will be crowned using the Copenhagen variant. The first 5 tournaments used Fetlar rules. Just thought I would mention it for anyone who cares to know.
2022-12-03 11:25:18 cacreal: Draganov vs Alex world speed championship 20 game extravaganza of blitz Copenhagen is what I would love to watch. Both are very talented and available to play as they have been eliminated. 10 bell and 10 regular set up. Each player with stopped individual time of only 24 hours to play and then 30 minutes a move. Since they are in a similar time zone we could see the results and crown a blitz 2022 champion by the end of the weekend. If this isn’t enough for them they could also play 10 Tablut games in a similar fashion at the same time. Maybe there could be video feeds so we could watch them battle in real time. So many options. Alex is favoured to win with the higher ranking heading into the challenge but I believe Draganov can make it a series to remember. What do you say fellas ?
2022-12-03 12:39:31 cacreal: I just reviewed Alex vs Draganov play to a draw in the WC22 archive and they don't have to play in the super series. From move 40 onwards Draganov on black makes an incredible, probably the best recovery comeback in Tafl and Alex collapses under pressure and even accepts a draw with the ability to do a side fort and many missed chances to escape. On the offence Draganov breezed to victory. Vegas is calling the series a draw so bets are even money but umpires need to verify live video feeds so the blitz belt with shine until the next super series main event when a challenger faces the winner and loser to play under the same terms simultaneously.
2022-12-03 14:35:48 Draganov: @Cacreal, playing 20 Copenhagen games against Alex sounds interesting and good for me. I am open to stream the games in a video but I need to check how to do that because I have never done it before. At least I can stream my face and my board because I am not sure if Alex would like to present himself in public. If we could not stream the games, we can just play 20 games in Copenhagen (10 with the Standard and 10 with the Bell setup) if Alex also wants to play against me. I will try to start such game series in the next week.
2022-12-03 14:39:50 Draganov: @Cassher, playing a match against you in February or March sounds good to me. I also would like to mention that in 2024 will be 10 years from the death of Peter Kelly who had a great role in the tafl revival. I think we could have a Peter Kelly's memorial tornament in the Fetlar variant in 2024. Probably, Hagbard or Adam could also try to invite Tim Millar (Crust) to come back just for this memorial Fetlar tournament.
2022-12-03 14:54:26 Draganov: And regarding my prefered variants in matches against everyone who is interested to play, I would like to play Standard Copenhagen, Copenhagen Bell, Fetlar or Copenhagen with different initial setup (Copenhagen Lewis Cross, Copenhagen with the setup of Simple Tafl, Copenhagen Wedge, which I tested in the Felhunn app). I also would like to play Standard Copenhagen with whites starting first. I tested all of these variants on the mobile app and all of them worked well. I also want to test the Copenhagen rules with initial setup of the black pieces on E1, F1, G1 and E3, F3, G3.
2022-12-03 23:54:08 Draganov: Btw, I also have matches that dream to see. The possible to happen matches of 10 Copenhagen games are: OdinHimself vs Bogd Khan OdinHimself vs Herjan Bogd Khan vs Herjan Cacreal vs Alex Hnefatafl Steiger vs Jrton80 (although, they're not high rated, it will be interesting to see and who can predict the result of such a match)... Probably impossible to see but dreamed matches of 10 Copenhagen games: Casshern vs Plantagenet Draganov vs Nath Casshern vs Schachus Schachus vs Alex Hnefatafl OdinHimself vs Nath
2022-12-04 07:15:29 Hagbard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-ng4BZT35E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8wISsJPwRE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACW2QuKwa0Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0CvcD2ShVo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLPG7oykA6g
2022-12-04 21:15:32 cacreal: Plamen, - I am 22 wins 17 losses vs "Alex" so we don't require your super series match up but feel free to review the Games archive... Once again I am open for a live blitz match over video with him to reveal their true identity and end the mystery for the tafl lovers all over the world.
2022-12-05 08:54:35 Steiger: @casshern: I will try to contact him.
2022-12-05 11:31:55 Draganov: @Cacreal, 22 to 17 as a result against Alex is a proof that such a match could be interesting to watch. The result is very close. Moreover, you both play using very interesting styles. So, such a match, especially blitz match, will be definitely intriguing. On the other hand, it is funny that you probably think that Alex and I share the same personality. As a proof that we are two different people, you can check the balance between me and you in Copenhagen. I won 16 games and you won 10. Your balance against me is negative while your balance against Alex is positive. My balance against Alex is 72 wins, 39 loses and 1 draw.
2022-12-05 11:37:55 Draganov: @Hagbard, what is the history behind the invention of Rachunek tablut 9x9? What are the main differences between this variant and the Saami Tablut that we are usually playing?
2022-12-05 15:09:07 cacreal: @draganov - I am 2 wins 0 losses World Championship Copenhagen 2022 against you and you promised retirement so I set up my board for the game to knock you out. If I knew this would increase message board activity I would probably have accepted a draw to let you keep playing. I just want to see the video game feed of it, this will determine if you are playing with yourself or there is an Alex.
2022-12-05 15:30:35 Draganov: Chris, let us play a match of 10 blitz games. I will capture the video as well as my face and will upload it in the youtube. I know that you are involved in the R3 of the world championship but I promise to complete the games by the end of the evening.
2022-12-05 17:30:15 Hagbard: September 2011 apparently noone knew, what is Tablut. The Swedes called Tablut, what is here called "Foteviken Tablut". A Czech game site called Tablut, what is here called "Rachunek Tablut". And I'm told that in Russia Tablut was what is here called "Skalk Hnefatafl 9x9". The Rachunek Tablut is an unarmed king with a throne and to the edge. It seems that they got it from an old English game book which is based on translation errors.
2022-12-05 17:37:33 Draganov: Thanks Hagbard for the explanation. The games in the archive showed that the whites were in favour. However, I think the blacks must win easily if the king is unarmed. In Skalk the king must escapes to the corner and he is also weak and gets captured by two vikings, which makes the variant in favour of the blacks. If Rachunek is a corner variant with unarmed king it must be also in favour of the blacks. Even with the king captured by four vikings can't change this. Maybe we can test this variant in a test tournament?
2022-12-05 17:46:40 Hagbard: No forbidden corners, the king wins on edge. The king cannot return to the throne. The king is captured from 4 sides. We measured the game balance to about +2.50
2022-12-05 17:55:09 Hagbard: Actually, Adam Bartley invented the Sea Battle Tafl by simply removing the throne from the Rachunek
2022-12-07 09:58:48 Draganov: @Hagbard, my theory is that if a variant is estimated to be about +2.00 in favour of the whites, it is actually well-balanced. I explored the archive and found out that Rachunek and Sea battle T 9x9 shared the same starting position. The only difference is that in Rachunek we have a throne and the king can't returns to it. I think the balance of Sea battle T 9x9 is good even dough it is statistically in favour of the whites. My observation is that when a variant is regularly played, the players learn how to play better with the blacks. This is even more the truth regarding the weak king and sea battle variants where one mistake from the blacks can lead to a defeat. So, I think it will be good to have two test tournaments. One of Sea battle T 9x9 and the other one in Rachunek.
2022-12-09 10:25:07 Draganov: @Hagbard, I saw that in the tafl wall of fame there is a listing of almost all of the players who played here on this website. However, I couldn't find the names of Siegfried, Fjorlag, Death, edmond-dantes and khan asparukh. In the games archive we can search for players and see their rating history. However, the above names except for khan asparukh are not visible. Is this because these players are other nicknames of well-known players or you just missed to add them?
2022-12-09 10:43:45 Hagbard: The names are doublets
2022-12-09 11:03:32 Draganov: I also thought that this is the reason. Can you name them or do you think it will be good if I name them because I know the names of their main nicknames?
2022-12-09 11:04:28 Draganov: I think it will be good for the transparency of the community and it will help the players to explore the games in the archive in a better context.
2022-12-09 11:11:55 Hagbard: I presume that for the admin it's confidential info, so I'll leave the matter to the players -
2022-12-09 21:18:17 brave-frog: Hello everyone! Hello @Hagbard! It’s nice to add a warning in cuhkka about a player going to make a repetition move. And what about to test mandatory captures in this game? :)
2022-12-09 21:39:27 Hagbard: Mandatory capture in Cuhkka, a very good idea in my opinion. This will make Cuhkka identical to Alquerque/Qirkat, though, which is implemented manywhere in the internet.
2022-12-10 08:45:18 Hagbard: Finished tournaments: Saami Sahkku 3x15 (Kaafjord): #1 Draganov, #2 Bogd khan, #3 Rosk Daldos 3x14: #1 Draganov and Xerxes, #3 Holidayinnes Historical Hnefatafl 11x11 (Welsh Tawlbwrdd-w): #1 Draganov, #2 Jrton80, #3 Brave-frog and Setanta Sea battle-204577-w 11x11: #1 Draganov, #2 Potapych, #3 Brave-frog and Biolog psihopat Daldos 3x12: #1 Holidayinnes and Rosk, #3 Xerxes and Brave-frog Daldos 3x14: #1 Xerxes and Floki, #3 Holidayinnes Daldos 3x16: #1 Cacreal and Holidayinnes, #3 Floki Daabloe Frisian 11x9: #1 Brave-frog, #2 Rosk, #3 Hagbard Daabloe Frisian2 11x9: #1 Brave-frog, #2 Jrton80, #3 Holidayinnes
2022-12-10 09:22:00 mihkkal: @hagbard Yes, mandatory capture would make the game something other than Cuhkka. It would make it Alquerque. If mandatory capture is implemented then the resulting game should by all means *not* be called Cuhkka here. It would confuse people as to what the traditional game rules are. On the whole, implementing mandatory captures in Sámi games that do not traditionally have them is something that I am very critical to. It is a big job that has been done to research traditional Sámi game rules and to spread knowledge about them. If games with radically altered rules are spread, with the same names as the trad games, I fear that this would create confusion about what is tradition and what is innovation. Some innovations are small enough that their implementation can be defended but mandatory capture changes the strategy of the game fundamentally.
2022-12-10 09:40:51 Hagbard: Mandatory capture will not be added to Cuhkka here. The resulting game exists already elsewhere in the internet (Alquerque). As for the Dablo, I see your point. The experiment merged the Dablo with the Frisian Draughts. The experiment also confirmed, that the Saami Dablo indeed cannot have mandatory capture. Because Brave-Frog discovered that the Dablo setup is born with an initial trap, so that the player who moves first always wins in three moves. The merged game is at the moment named "Dablo-Frisian". Perhaps another and better name could be found?
2022-12-10 09:53:59 mihkkal: How does the first player always win first within one move? That is, I take it, *if* mandatory capture is used?
2022-12-10 09:54:47 mihkkal: *within three moves
2022-12-10 10:05:13 Hagbard: http://aagenielsen.dk/dablo/dabloReplay.php?netspil1x=32315f32313735395f73
2022-12-10 10:08:38 mihkkal: Aha! Elegant. There is in fact one, very obscure, version of Sámi Dablo that is attested to have had mandatory capture. But it is very, very different from South Sámi Dablo: different board, different soldier setup, different rules for moving and capturing in general, and no kings/princes on the teams (just one king piece on the board).
2022-12-10 11:50:27 Hagbard: "Spiderweb Draughts" ? The old before-chess board looks like a spider's web.
2022-12-10 11:54:42 Hagbard: Or "Spiders Draughts" ? The officers move like spiders in the web and eat men.
2022-12-11 08:21:39 Hagbard: Scandian Draughts?
2022-12-11 08:23:47 Hagbard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QokENOgPI2A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIS_uAryBU8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMgIbU_QKNE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvJbUhTSJFw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Esefgctc7_A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhgFkb4Osh4
2022-12-12 11:58:42 floki: @Hagbard : have you ever thought about organising a Team Tafl tournament, similar to the Ryder cup between Europe and US-Canada ? That would be a more exciting event for the community rather than watching/learning from single/blitz /whatever match between top players.
2022-12-12 12:29:07 Hagbard: Not since April-June 2017. A difficult thing to do. 2017 9 players from both sides competed with the result Europe 14 pt. America 4 pt.
2022-12-12 13:32:29 floki: It seems like results could be more in favour of US-Canada. Would it be less complicated with 3-4 players each team ?
2022-12-12 13:48:58 Hagbard: The problem is that in golf you have tens of thousands of players on both sides of the Atlantic. In Tafl you have 10 players in Europe for each player in America.
2022-12-12 14:24:14 Draganov: @Floki, something similar has been already tried. I agree that it is interesting and I personally would like to participate in such a match. Here are the active and strong American players which I matched with appropriate European opponent: 1: Casshern - Draganov 2: Cacreal - OdinHimself 3: Garun19 - Alex Hnefatafl 4: Holidayinnes - Jilles 5: Bingoboy - Pavel Dusenko; 6: William the 3rd - Sqaree 7: Jrton80 - Floki 8: Asther-Kane - Dimetr (Tablut match) 9: Unhandyandy - Colophonius (Brandubh match)
2022-12-12 14:38:21 floki: @Draganv : I am more in favour of a round robin tournament with only 3/4 players for each team.
2022-12-13 16:56:22 brave-frog: Hello @Hagbard! http://aagenielsen.dk/dablo/dabloReplay.php?netspil1x=33375f32373035365f73 at move 96 black can start a winning sequence, but at the last move they left with a single king, and when they are about to take the black king, they lose because of the single king means lost... Can we fix this?
2022-12-13 17:00:05 brave-frog: I am sorry white can start the sequence at move 96 http://aagenielsen.dk/dablo/dabloReplay.php?netspil1x=33375f32373035365f73
2022-12-13 17:03:04 brave-frog: The sequence was 1. Kc3-c1 Kg1xg5 2. c5-b6 Kg5xc5xa7 3. Ka1 Ka7xa3 4. Ka1xa5
2022-12-14 15:53:27 Hagbard: The Dablo king without men is a lost king!
2022-12-15 08:26:33 Hagbard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qeKNVPn640A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ByKeq5tLJok https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9jlTxClMlU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eYF79pPbkk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XuSxUXIM1Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJVB7bv6uLU
2022-12-18 15:54:24 Hagbard: https://www.dr.dk/drtv/se/nul-stjerner_-julemanden-findes-i-finland_348598
2022-12-18 17:49:05 Hagbard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrjNWFjxGxI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dafn020Q52k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NY8pfqL85Q
2022-12-19 06:53:35 Hagbard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eF1Iv-uAVi0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lC5gHo03JM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BekppSPcmNw (hat tip Luk Martens) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRIlTvYp0ok https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OmLF21NWk0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjtYtBGrP6Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdnaPAJgAQI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDPwNPAV6tA
2022-12-21 02:38:49 casshern: @Floki: I am interested in your Europe vs North America tournament. Round robin correct? I would propose myself (Casshern), Cacreal, Holidayinnes, and Garun19 for NA. Against Odinhimself, Bogd Khan, Draganov, and Alex Hnefatafl for EU. Each NA player would play each EU player for a total of 16 matches or 32 points. Is that would you are proposing? Sounds interesting to me. I would participate. Would need to get confirmation from everyone else as well.
2022-12-21 09:20:28 Draganov: @Cassher, indeed that sounds interesting and I would like to participate.
2022-12-21 16:56:06 floki: @casshern yes that’s what I would be more interested to follow (and learn). Maybe with 24h time buffer (1,5 day if you think that time difference could be an issue) and not rated game (just give one’s best !)
2022-12-22 10:06:58 casshern: @Floki: I am glad for your enthusiasm in this venture. Rated or not rated games, I don’t think anyone is particular. The main thing is some players are not always active. Like myself, Odinhimself, and Bogd Khan. However, I do plan to be active for the foreseeable future. Just need to get thumbs up from everyone else. 24 hour time buffer would be good. Or whatever timing @hagbard thinks would be best. I am more interested in the quality of play over speed. Blitz or shorter time limits leads to mistakes or timing out.
2022-12-22 15:41:08 floki: @Casshern : yes I am very enthusiastic and would be even more if Plantagenet joined. Equally, your decision to be more active here is more than welcome, hopefully I will get my chance to play against you and most probably, to beat you when you are exhausted from the NA / EU tournament 😜
2022-12-22 15:45:27 floki: @Casshern forgot to mention your brilliant exit fort against Pavel
2022-12-22 16:18:15 Draganov: I think there are many interesting challenges that were proposed. To sum up: 1) North America vs Europe battle 2) Beat the champion challenge
2022-12-22 16:28:09 Draganov: The third idea is to have an extended 'beat the champion' challenge in which the players join to play not only against the reigning world champion but against all of the world champions who are still active. In that moment the still active champions are Casshern, myself and Adam. I know Adam was active only as an umpire but it will be great if he comes back to active play just for this one challenge.
2022-12-22 16:30:19 Draganov: And we still need to wait until the end of the world championship because Cacreal is still not eliminated and has the chance to become a world champion.
2022-12-22 16:34:49 Draganov: Btw, my 10 games match against Alex is over and the result is equal 5:5.
2022-12-24 03:26:09 casshern: @Floki: I was fortunate against Pavel. A little bit of skill and a lot of luck, I think. Pavel did very well to impede my attack and block the corners. Had to go for the exit fort as a last resort. I expect him to keep improving. Was very impressed by our first meeting!
2022-12-24 04:58:48 casshern: @Hagbard: Would it be ok to start the “Challenge the best” tournament at the start of January, for HH and SB? Copenhagen will start later. I saw for HH the top three are Casshern, Dimetr, and Draganov. Im guessing the top three for SB are Casshern, Draganov, and Alex. Not sure if you can confirm that at this point. So for whoever wants to “play the best,” when they sign up for the tournament they will play all 3 of the top players for that variant? Also, which variants will be used? Perhaps 2 tournament for HH, Tablut and Welsh Tawlbwrdd? And both SB 9x9 and 11x11 as well? Im guess there will not be too many challenges for SB though, if any.
2022-12-24 08:24:23 Dimetr: Casshern, Yes, I will be glad to play in such tournament - HH. I like Tablut -w, and maybe we can play Simple Tafl (instead of Welsh Tawlbwrdd)? It's Historical too. Simple Tafl - just another reconstruction of Welsh manuscript Here is an interesting article by Alessandro Arzani, about it https://abbasagraphicus.wordpress.com/2021/07/01/tawlbwrdd-original-manuscript/
2022-12-24 09:11:48 Hagbard: @Dimetr, thank you for this link about Tawlbwrdd! @Casshern, I also suggest that the "Beat-The-Winners" start first in January, or when the World Champ. Tourn. has finished, there could be a 4th round. I suggest that the first tournaments are Daldos 12 plus Tablut-w 9x9 at the same time. If every active player would want to beat the winners, then each winner could have 90 games in a tournament, so better the quick variants like board 12 and 9x9. When more than half of these games are finished, Copenhagen could be the next. And Sea Tafl 9x9 last, because Sea Tafl appears to be less popular. I suggest, that it is almost as the usual daily tournaments: Any player can join at any time within 7 days, and then 6 games are started against the 3 top winners. If some top winners do not have the time, it's no problem, the tournaments run against the winners who can. A Merry Christmas to everybody here, and a Happy New Year!!
2022-12-24 10:10:30 casshern: Sounds good, thanks!
2022-12-24 11:46:08 Dimetr: Alex asked me to post this: "I think the only possible and balanced variant of the Sea battle - it's 13v13 board with the historical variant placed and White's first move. Another options on boards 9 and 11 are not balanced and not interested for the serious game"
2022-12-25 14:19:39 Draganov: @Hagbard, it seems that the Fetlar repetition rule is broken and there's a bug. In my tournament game against Brave-Frog the game ended as a draw but only he repeated his moves. I was trying to surround him but the game ended immediately after his own repetition. Could you check the game and restore it in order to complete the game
2022-12-25 14:27:15 Draganov: And also could you please restore 7 points of my rating because the draw was buggy
2022-12-25 18:11:22 Hagbard: fixed
2022-12-25 19:03:51 Draganov: However, right now Brave-Frog is not able to move and it is his turn. Could you check and enable his movement
2022-12-25 19:48:53 Hagbard: fixed
2022-12-25 20:24:35 Draganov: Thanks and Merry Christmas to all!
2022-12-26 13:14:34 Hagbard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MS3vpAWW2Zc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUZEtVbJT5c
2022-12-29 14:14:15 Hagbard: Just found this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FW8OWXi6ZU
2022-12-30 21:44:28 Dimetr: My friends! It was a lot of interesting games this year, Thanks everyone! And I hope, some players join the Simple Tafl tournament (ongoing now) Happy New Year!
2022-12-31 02:43:24 casshern: @Draganov: You mentioned you know the main accounts for the following players: Siegfried, Fjorlag, Death, edmond-dantes and khan asparukh. Hagbard also confirmed that they are doublets. I also think it would be good for transparency to know who the players of these aliases are.
2022-12-31 12:22:31 floki: @Casshern, I thinks it’s more challenging to recognise a player’s identity through their game tactics. In case of any misbehaviour, it wouldn’t’ be a major issue for Hagbard to spot and ax him/her.
2022-12-31 18:34:36 xerxes: Thanks to Aage for another year enjoyable tafl on this site
2022-12-31 22:58:15 floki: @Casshern : Congratulations! The King is back, thanks ever so much for the amazing games and a special 👍 to Dimetr and Pavel . Happy new year everyone !
2023-01-01 08:57:46 casshern: Happy New Year Everyone!!! Thank you for the Congrats, Floki. I just realized what you are talking about. I am over come with joy!! Congrats to everyone who made it to the third round this year. Dimetr especially for making it to the third round in Copenhagen and Historical Hnefatafl. Cacreal, Garun19, and Pavel, who proved they are amongst the best. And Draganov, last year’s champion, who made it to the third round in Sea Battle. Though I am sure he is disappointed to have not done better in each tournament. @Draganov: I know how you feel. I was so devastated from losing last year that I didn’t play any tafl all year. And it wasn’t just that I lost, but you were so dominant. Beating me 5 out of 6 games. I don’t expect you will retire like you say. It really would be a shame if you did. @All: I hope our community continues to grow in 2023. Not only in quantity, but in quality as well. Everyone here as been improving so much. I see it in the parody. It probably wouldn’t be very viking like for me to ask for peace in the chat forum. Honestly, it entertains me just as much as playing. Instead, I wish everyone health, happiness, and prosperity in 2023. And more Tafl!!!
2023-01-01 09:16:04 casshern: Also, congrats to Draganov for winning the Race Games tournament. I forgot about that since I am only interested in and play Tafl games. I must also congratulate Xerxes for his play in the Race Games tournament. I thought he won the tournament having lost the least amount of games overall. But, I guess the rules were different in that tournament. Regardless, I believe the tournament format can and will improve next year. I am glad and honored to be back at the top again!!! @All: Please join the upcoming Beat the Winners tournament. If you have the time. Good luck and have fun in 2023!!
2023-01-01 14:35:46 Hagbard: The last World Tourn. game finished yesterday. Mike, Hamish, Adam and Mikkel, do you agree about these World Tourn. winners 2022? Copenhagen: #1 Casshern, #2 Cacreal, #3 Garun19 Hist. Hnef.: #1 Casshern, #2 Dimetr, #3 Draganov Sea Battle Tafl: #1 Casshern, #2 Draganov, #3 Alex hnefatafl Race Games: #1 Draganov, #2 Xerxes, #3 Holidayinnes And I'll also highlight the players with the most wins: Copenhagen: Dimetr and Pavel Dusenko 14 won games. Hist. Hnef.: Dimetr 12 won games. Sea Battle Tafl: Casshern 12 won games. Race Games: Xerxes 12 won games. A big thank you to the 33 players who took part in the tournament!! It has been very enjoyable to follow the games, very high quality! @xerxes, thank you. And thank you to all you players who bring life to the games and to the site!!
2023-01-01 16:24:55 cacreal: Congratulations to all the winners and all the best in 2023 ! Could we try to put a version of blitz Copenhagen on the board ? A 15 to 20 Minute timer per person to play all their moves ? It doesn’t have to affect any points and could be just a test but I think it would provide interesting and more games for the archive. Holidayinnes and I had the opportunity to play in person games and a set games was concluded in 35 minutes. So I think 15 minutes max timer for a game can be possible and then the set of games would be over in one hour. I would be happy to try this with any player that is interested. The idea would be to do only one colour at a time and their could be a random selection of colour as in the chess.com app. After the game is over the opposite colour game would start. The board would have to remain open the entire game so not sure how this could be supported. The pieces come alive in a faster paced game. I know this may not appeal to many but I love to play 3 min chess games because of the quick battles it allows in an otherwise busy schedule.
2023-01-02 12:08:04 Hagbard: If the umpires agree about the World Tourn. winners, then the Beat The Winners tournaments can start at Jan. 5th at 18 o'clock Danish time. Jan 5th: Saami Tablut-w 9x9 against Casshern, Dimetr and Draganov. Daldos 3x12 against Draganov, Xerxes and Holidayinnes. Later: Copenhagen Hnefatafl 11x11 against Casshern, Cacreal and Garun19. And last: Sea battle-2526 9x9 against Casshern, Draganov and Alex hnefatafl. Saami Sahkku 3x15 against Draganov, Xerxes and Holidayinnes. NB Using the new timing: the same as the World Tourn., but beware that the minimum time out is now 3 hours instead of 12 hours. If some winners do not have the time to participate, then it is no problem! Beat The Winners simply run against the winners who can.
2023-01-03 10:46:51 Павел Дусенко: Happy New Year everyone! All the best to you! Special 👍 for Floki, who was the first of the best players I met when I first started playing.
2023-01-03 12:20:45 floki: @ Павел Дусенко : Thx for your kind words; you deserve the compliments for having played such a good Tafl in your first appearance at the World tournament. I guess that you will be a serious contender for taking the Casshern’s crown next year !
2023-01-03 19:05:31 Draganov: First of all, congratulations to Casshern for winning all three tafl world championships this year. His game with the blacks against Dimetr in the Historical Hnefatafl final really impressed me a lot. What an amazing game and great defence with the blacks! Congratlations also to Dimetr for reaching the finals of two of the tournaments and Pavel Dusenko for the great performance. Congratulations to Cacreal for creating such wonderful battles and beating everyone at least once except the champion Casshern! Congrats to Garun19 for proving that he is tough like a stone and noone could easily defeat him! @Casshern
2023-01-03 19:09:10 Draganov: Congratulations also to the new players who made their debute in the world championship - Ramzi, Huzsiati, William the 3rd, Cromwell for the nice games that all of you created. Congrats to Toscano and Orso for managing to win games despite the fact they were placed on the bottom of the rating list. I think this year, all of the players were very competitive and the strength of the players has got increased a lot.
2023-01-03 19:32:00 Draganov: @Casshern, to be honest, I don't feel sad or dissapointed of my performance and of losing the world title. Actually, I feel relaxed. When Spassky lost his chess title to Fischer, he said that he is the hapiest person on the Earth because when someone is on the top, he can take many paths but all of them are going down. When I was a champion, I felt like I need to fight in each tournament and to be as active as possible. I wanted to defend the title against everyone who challenged me. And to some extend it was exhausting. Now, I feel relaxed and ready to experiment with new ideas, new oppenings and new game plans. I would also like to taste variants that I have never played such as Alea Evangelii. I will definetelly continue playing tafl and will try to improve. Probably I will not be as active as before but will be still more active than majority of the players. However, I need to focus on my personal life too. In the end of December my wife gave birth to our precious daughter. So being a father of two little children is not an easy task and I will need to devote more time on my family. I also would like to help OdinHimself of popularizing tafl in Bulgaria. We are dreaming of organizing a live tournament in Sofia in the Sping of 2023. I also want to explore some other historical board games. I joined the community of Chaturanga/Shatranj in chess.com and popularized tafl little bit amongst the players there. I also would like to explore historical chess variants like Makruk, Courier Chess, Tamerlan Chess and Grant Acedrex. However, I still hope to be active tafl player.
2023-01-03 19:36:59 Draganov: Moreover, I want to spend some time on completing my book on the world tafl championships and analyses of the tournament games of all of the world champions. When I finish this book, I will upload it in PDF format for free downloading.
2023-01-03 19:39:41 Draganov: @Hagbard, probably it will be interesting for the players if I am also included in the upcoming Beat the winners tournament as I am a former world champ. Or you can include me in another tournament involing only the active world champs former or reigning (Casshern, Adam and me) if such a tournament is going to be organized in the future. I just want to mention that I am ready to play against everyone who challenge me.
2023-01-03 20:55:20 Hagbard: Danish Broadcasting Corporation New Year's Gala: https://drkoncerthuset.dk/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/2022_DRSO_NYTAAARSGALLA_mhou_web_rt-RETTET.pdf https://www.dr.dk/drtv/program/nytaarsgalla-med-dr-symfoniorkestret_354153
2023-01-05 09:58:14 Hagbard: There've been no objections to the winning results of the World Tourn. Congratulations to Mario Aluizo ("casshern"), World Champion 2022!! And congratulations to Hist.Hnef., Sea Battle and Race Games winners casshern, casshern and Draganov! The Performance Rating is listed for all players here: http://aagenielsen.dk/wtfturnering2022.php A big thank you to the umpires Mike ("holidayinnes"), Hamish ("ChaolAibhne"), Adam ("Adam") and Mikkel ("mihkkal")!! @Draganov, congratulations with the addition to the family.
2023-01-05 17:07:35 Draganov: @Hagbard, maybe we could also include Sahkku in the Beat the winners tournament. The Sahkku is almost as fast as Daldos
2023-01-05 17:17:23 Hagbard: Good idea and it will be, in 3rd round.
2023-01-10 15:17:30 Draganov: @All, I am thinking of a new variant combining Copenhagen and Fetlar rules. Imagine a variant for example on a 11x11 board with corner escaping, exit forts and shieldwall like in the standard Copenhagen variant plus allowed repetitions that lead to draw and fake draw forts like in Fetlar. In my opinion based on my experience with the strong king variants, Old Hnefatafl is absolutely in favour of the blacks because the whites don't have any weapons like forts or shieldwall and the king is captured on the edge and even the corners are hostile to the king. However, Fetlar is still pretty much playable because the whites could make a draw by repetitions or draw forts. So, in Fetlar the blacks must pay attention to such draw strategy that the whites could use. This opens weaknesses in the black position and gives chances to the whites to play even for the win. That's why Fetlar is still playable and interesting and as well balanced as Copenhagen. I think if we combine both types of rules, we will have the most interesting and strategically rich variant so far. Let me know what is your opinion about my idea?
2023-01-10 23:33:53 Jrton80: @Draganov - I absolutely hate draws by repetition. I find it makes Fetlar unplayable.
2023-01-12 10:20:57 Hagbard: Beat The Winners: Copenhagen against Casshern, Cacreal, Garun19 and Draganov. If some winners don't have the time, just tell in the chat or don't start the games, and the name will be taken out of the tournament.
2023-01-13 04:33:12 cacreal: I don't have time to play Copenhagen in a long format unfortunately so please remove me.
2023-01-13 08:28:59 Hagbard: ok
2023-01-17 22:33:22 Hagbard: New in gallery: Dimetr sent photos from a Moscow tafl tournament for children last weekend.
2023-01-18 08:22:45 Hagbard: They're using chess clocks in the tournament, something based on 5 minutes, perhaps Fischer timing with 10 seconds per move. It's interesting that they do that. Apparently they use the Tablut-w 9x9 game where a black win takes as many moves as a white win, and therefore a chess clock can work. Adam Bartley and the Norwegian chessmaster also used a chess clock 2020. But they played the Copenhagen 11x11, where a black win takes double as many moves as a white win. And so white would almost inevitably win because of the chess clock, either by a normal win in a few moves, or by black running out of time needing many moves.
2023-01-18 08:54:14 Draganov: Regarding the timing, I don't think having different time for blacks and whites is a good idea. Indeed, the blacks usually need more moves to win the game but from the point where the corners are blocked and the blacks have a cordon, the following moves are obvious and easy to play. In such a situation, time addition of 5-15 seconds per move will be absolutely enough to complete the game. For example, in chess (oh, guys, it was not even standard chess but Chess Courier) I recently lost to a master who checkmated me playing about 50 endgame moves with time left of 1 second and addition of 2 seconds. So, playing an endgame of Tafl with time addition of even 5 seconds will be an easy task for an experienced player.
2023-01-18 10:47:09 Dimetr: Yes, we used chess clock with Fischer timing. - 10 minutes for each player + 10 seconds per move. It turns out - about 25-30 minutes per game, for Tablut - just enough
2023-01-18 11:04:36 Hagbard: That makes sense. On the photos the players seem to start with a warm-up game with 5 minutes per player 10 seconds per move. Afterwards the real games 10 minutes per player 10 seconds per move, would last in average 2 x 10 minutes + 36 moves x 10 seconds/move = 26 minutes.
2023-01-18 19:30:53 Draganov: Here I explained why I think mixing Fetlar and Copenhagen rules (just allowing repetitions in Copenhagen) will create the best variant so far. Please, comment and share our opinion too. http://aagenielsen.dk/hnefataflforum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=150
2023-01-19 01:03:55 Asther-Kane: I am very happy to see the next generation of Tafl players in training. Good work, @Dimetr !
2023-01-19 15:10:59 floki: @Draganov: I have replied to your interesting proposal in the forum, I am eager to be a guinea pig to test this variant
2023-01-19 18:15:19 Draganov: @Floki, I am glad you are interested in my proposed variant. I invited you to two games in the Felhunh mobile app.
2023-01-22 19:25:20 Dimetr: My friends! It was wery hard and interesting Tablut tournament - "Beat the winners" - I lost 4 games out of 14 Opponents played very strong, and did not forgive me my mistakes. Thank you all for the tournament!
2023-01-22 21:22:39 mihkkal: @Dimetr A Tablut tournament for children! Inspiring and good work.
2023-01-24 06:12:25 MasterLuke: @Draganov and @Hagbard and @everybody else : I just read Dragaonov's proposal to create a new game variant mixing Fetlar and Copenhagen. Ik think this is a great idea! For me, as a 1300-rated player (I can't get any higher, it seems), Copenhagen is not an enjoyable variant, and Draganov just hits the nail on the head when he states that a Copenhagen game can be over after just 20 moves when all the corners are blocked, thus resulting in a very boring gameplay afterwards. So yes, please let's try it! I'll be happy to be one of the first players... and if Hagbard is willing to integrate it on this site, I will gladly design the pieces for it. ;) Now, another thing comes up in my mind, for yet another option: why not add a Berserk move too? This would result in an 'all is allowed'- type of game and we could call it 'Total Tafl' (has a nice alliteration in it, isn't it).
2023-01-24 08:45:29 Draganov: @MasterLuke, thank you for your interest and willingness to test the variant that I proposed. I think it is really great how diversed the game of tafl could be. In my opinion, adding berserk movement is an interesting idea but I am still not sure how it will change the game. I feel that when adding some beneficial rules for the whites, the game will become more well-balanced and interesting since the blacks are too strong. In order to balance the game of tafl, Plantagenet created a variant in which the black pieces have restrictions in their movement (some pieces can't move 7 squaeres, some can but cannot take on the 7th square and so on). Another way to balance the game is by adding additional weapons to the whites (in Plantagenet variant the king can jump from his throne one square) in Berserk we have a king who can jump over a piece next to the corner square and we also have different type of pieces such as commanders and a knight. However, I think that these restrictions, additions and different type of pieces moves tafl away from its origin. That's not bad, but it is just a completely different variant and game. That's why I think of adding just a small change (allowing the repetitions). In my opinion this small change will balance the game or at least will make the task of the blacks more difficult and the game more interesting for a longer number of moves. Moreover, from a historical point of view, I am not sure if the vikings have rules against the repetiotions. The repetition rule is complicated by itself. For example, in the mobile app of Fellhuhn, the repetition rule is implemented in a wrong way. By just allowing the repetition, we add simplicity to the game and additional weapon for the whites, which will add more balance as well. We can test such variants easily, we just need to allow repetitions in Copenhagen and my variant (let's call it Copenfetlar) mixing Copenhagen and Fetlar rules will be ready. If this variant works well, we coul
2023-01-24 08:46:06 Draganov: If this variant works well, we could think of testing Total Tafl (mixing Copenhagen, Fetlar and Berserk movement or even Berserk pieces) too.
2023-01-24 10:29:46 Draganov: @MasterLuke, I invited you to two games in my variant (Copenfetlar) in the Fellhuhn mobile app.
2023-01-24 21:57:37 Skye: Masterluke: I should not worry about x points or where you are at the rating ladder (I do, eventough i try not to, so I understand, we are all human). But being good at one thing almost always means being less good or even bad at something else. But still I understand what you mean by the 1300 mark. I myself wonder no end why there is an m (master) behind my name because I sure don't feel like one, (most) of the time.
2023-01-26 16:02:22 Draganov: BTW, Although MasterLuke is a 1300-rated player, he achieved victories over very strong players like Ded Fomich, Jilles, Alex Hnefatafl, Casshern and me. He is very dangerous opponent who can beat everyone and of course lose to everyone too.
2023-01-30 09:56:37 Hagbard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EM8yUKwPjwA
2023-01-31 12:19:52 floki: @Hagbard : Thx for the video, so good !
2023-01-31 13:14:37 xerxes: They'll have to change it again soon. Since the ices much of northern Europe has been rising with respect to sea level due to loss of weighy as the ice sheets melted away.
2023-01-31 13:42:11 floki: Soon or later, sea water will tickle the tail of little mermaid 😜
2023-01-31 15:43:59 Hagbard: :)
2023-02-01 23:15:15 Hagbard: A number of players can start the tournaments. Limits: At most one per player at a time. At most four started by players at a time. No variant which is already currently in a tournament. The player is automatically added to the tournament.
2023-02-01 23:43:50 Hagbard: @Paul7, please try again -
2023-02-01 23:46:27 Draganov: @Hagbard, it is really great to be able to start a tournament. Can you also unlock all of the variants including 17x17 and 19x19 boards? I think it will be a chance for the revival of some forgotten variants.
2023-02-01 23:47:32 Hagbard: the locked variants are usually very unbalanced
2023-02-02 00:03:35 Draganov: Copenhagen Bell was measured +2.21 1 year ago. However, now it is better balanced than the standard Copenhagen variant. I think there might be other locked variants that are worthy to be tested again
2023-02-02 00:04:56 Hagbard: Current list of tourn. creators: Casshern, Jilles, Chaolaibhne, Cacreal, Dimetr, Garun19, Holidayinnes, Colophonius, Jrton80, Mihkkal, Xerxes, Masterluke, Brave-frog, Floki, Paul7
2023-02-02 00:07:47 Hagbard: Yes that's a strange case. Experience shows, and other board game people came to this conclusion also, that the balance should be 1.50 or better.
2023-02-02 08:53:06 Draganov: I think the issue with the balance is more complicated than just a number. For example, if 10 games are played in a variant and all of them were won by the whites but after really creative moves and hard fighting, it means that the variant is playable. If the whites didn't manage to find such creative moves, then they would have lost and the statistics would be different. On the other hand, there are variants that seems to be balanced based on the evaluation. However, all strong players will agree that they are imbalanced. For example, Old Hnefatatl seems to be the best-balanced variant for strong king on 11x11 board. However, it is obvious that we will never use it to determine the next world champion. When, I proposed to unlock the Copenhagen Bell, I was sure that the variant is deeper than it seemed based on the balance evaluation. If a variant is deep, both sides have a lot of resources to win the game, the moves are not obvious, then it seems to be a good and playable variant. I found out some variants in the archive that in my opinion are complex and might improve their balance. I would like to test them in tournaments. I will give you the list of them and would be glad to see them in practice since they have not been tested for many years and the strength of the players changed during the years.
2023-02-02 09:01:52 Draganov: I also think it is good to keep alive different tafl concepts. For example the concept of different board size. Now we have playable tafl variants on 7x7 (Brandubh), 9x9 (Tablut), 11x11 (many variants), 13x13 (Copenhagen 13x13), 15x15 (Simple Tyr 15x15) and even on 5x5 (my experimental and funny proposal for Simple Tafl 5x5). However, we don't have the chance to play on 17x17 and 19x19 boards. We also have the concept of different king types. We have playable variants for strong king, weak king and unarmed king. However, we don't have variants for king as hammer and king as anvil. I do believe, these different types of king (anvil and hammer) could have potential.
2023-02-02 09:12:42 Hagbard: New in gallery: photo series from the Board Games Festival Larix in Moscow last Saturday.
2023-02-02 09:34:44 Draganov: Here are some variants that seem to be promising: Tablut 19x19 (bal. 0) Alea Evangelii 19x19 (tablut corner) (bal. 1) Alea Evangelii Berserk 19x19 (bal. 0) These variants on 19x19 seems to be very complex and deep. We need more games to evaluate their balance properly. I also would like to play Tyr 9x9 (bal. 2.09) and Old Hnefatafl 9x9 (bal. 2.29). We tested these variants last year and although the balance still looks bad, the games were very deep. In Tyr 9x9 I managed to beat really strong players with both colors and lost with both colors too. It is a proof that the variant is deep and in my opinion it is the deepest variant on 9x9 board.
2023-02-03 09:02:25 Hagbard: The after-tournament Beat The Winners finished. Thank you!!! to all players again and also to the umpires, that you would participate in the World Champ. tournament 2022, and also to the winners and the players that you would join the after-tournament Beat The Winners!! The joint performance ratings for Beat The Winners is added in the tournament page: http://aagenielsen.dk/wtfturnering2022.php
2023-02-03 15:19:10 Hagbard: Finished tournaments: Daldos 3x12: #1 Floki, Holidayinnes and Rosk Copenhagen Hnefatafl 11x11: #1 Draganov, #2 Bingoboy, #3 Alex hnefatafl Daldos 3x14: #1 Holidayinnes, #2 Xerxes, #3 Potapych and Rosk Sea battle-1571 9x9: #1 Paul7, #2 Skye, #3 Brave-frog Historical Hnefatafl 9x9 (Saami Tablut-w): #1 Alex hnefatafl; #2 Dimetr, #3 Paul7 Daldos 3x16: #1 Tengrikut, Rosk and Brave-frog Sea battle-2526 9x9: #1 Draganov, Paul7 and Brave-frog Historical Hnefatafl 13x13 (modif. Parlett 2): #1 Draganov, #2 Jrton80, #3 Masterluke and Brave-frog Daldos 3x12: #1 Rosk, #2 Colophonius, Floki and Holidayinnes Fetlar 13x13 (Viking Siege): #1 Draganov, #2 Holidayinnes, #3 Brave-frog Simple Tafl T cross-w 9x9: #1 Casshern, #2 Jilles, #3 Draganov Daldos 3x14: #1 Holidayinnes and Brave-frog, #3 Floki and Xerxes Copenhagen Hnefatafl Bell 11x11: #1 Casshern and Draganov, #3 Jrton80 Market Hnefatafl 9x9: #1 Casshern, #2 Draganov, #3 Jilles Simple Tafl 11x11: #1 Casshern, #2 Draganov and Dimetr Historical Hnefatafl 7x7 (Irish Brandubh 2): #1 Colophonius, #2 Skye, #3 Paul7 Daldos 3x16: #1 Brave-frog, #2 Colophonius, Floki and Rosk Copenhagen Hnefatafl 13x13: #1 Draganov, #2 Rideroflight, #3 Jrton80 Sea battle tafl 13x13 (Nielsen): #1 Draganov and Holidayinnes, #3 Brave-frog and Fraech Historical Hnefatafl 13x13 (modif. Parlett): #1 Draganov, #2 Brave-frog, #3 Jrton80 and Masterluke Ard Ri-39 throneless 7x7 (Scottish Ard Ri): #1 Draganov, #2 Skye, #3 Masterluke Simple Tafl 5x5: #1 Draganov, #2 Holidayinnes, #3 Jilles
2023-02-04 16:24:06 Hagbard: I'd like to try two test runs of the World Tourn. format: http://aagenielsen.dk/diagonalformat.php The two market versions could be used for the test, they're small and quick: Market Hnefatafl 9x9 Simple Tafl T cross-w 9x9 If you'd join the test, there's a registering button here: http://aagenielsen.dk/tafl_humans.php
2023-02-09 13:46:15 paul7: @Hagbard, it looks like I've encountered a bug. Please take a look at the game of Hex which I play as black against Colophonius in the tournament. I've built an unbroken line the previous turn, but the end of game was not detected, and the software allowed the white to take another turn. This turn however the victory is detected if I move anywhere at all. BTW, thank you for allowing the players to initiate tournaments, it's a really cool feature!
2023-02-09 18:59:46 Hagbard: thank you for informing
2023-02-11 10:02:22 Colophonius: Hey there guys! As Beserk Hnefatafl seems to be in the focus right now, would it make sense to combine Beserk rules and Copenhagen rules (and maybe also Fetlar rules)? I like the thought of having a variant where you have berserkers, shieldwalls etc. on the same board. What do you think, would such a variant be balanced?
2023-02-11 10:17:43 Colophonius: Ah, berserkers would destroy shieldwalls very easily...
2023-02-11 11:51:42 Hagbard: Hat tip Draganov, MasterLuke and Colophonius. Total Hnefatafl 11x11; Copenhagen + Fetlar + Berserk. I think that the Martens set 19 looks good in this game -
2023-02-11 12:43:29 Colophonius: Thanks Hagbard! I have to study at the moment, but I'll have a look at this variant, although I'm not a potent 11x11 Tafl player.
2023-02-11 17:21:06 Draganov: Total Hnefatafl sounds interesting and I like the idea to combine all main rules. However, I still can't say if the berserk capturing is good or bad for such a variant. We need to test it and if it is not working well we can remove it and keep only Copenhagen + Fetlar rules and call it Copenfetlar or something like that.
2023-02-11 20:07:38 floki: this "Total" variant is appealing though I don't think Fetlar would add any thrills since, as Colophonius mentioned, Berserk move can break through a shield wall plus less chances for whites to go for a draw. As we have no idea how it could benefit the game perhaps we could test it as a non rated game first
2023-02-11 21:37:04 Hagbard: Balance is unknown, so it is unrated. I got a draw as white a few hours ago.
2023-02-11 22:28:54 Draganov: @Hagbard, in your game against Colophonius, you had a winning position but went for the draw.
2023-02-12 00:46:48 MasterLuke: If the Total Hnefatafl variant turns out to be a keeper, I'll design some new pieces for it ;)
2023-02-16 08:23:41 Hagbard: Luk Martens ("MasterLuke") drew new game pieces for Total Hnefatafl.
2023-02-16 10:15:30 Draganov: I think that Total Hnefatafl is at least as interesting as the other main variants. It will be interesting to see more strong players like Casshern, Alex, Cacreal and OdinHimselg playing it. Then, we can conclude about its balance.
2023-02-16 16:05:06 Colophonius: @ Draganov: Would you be interested in playing a few x10 Brandubh 2-games against me and Irish Raven? There's an opening for white which seems to be hard to beat for black.
2023-02-16 16:48:06 Draganov: @Colophonius, yes sure. Let's test this new opening. However, you and Irish Raven spent much more time analyzing Brandubh and I am afraid that I will not be able to give you a hard fight in Brandubh. I hope to make some interesting games against both of you and help you to test this new opening. Let's make two matches... I will play 10 games against you and 10 games against Irish Raven at the same time. All of the games with timing x 10 and not rated. Each player having 5 games with the whites and 5 games with the blacks.
2023-02-16 16:53:24 Draganov: BTW, is Irish Raven and Auskor the same player with two different nicknames. They are both from Bilbao and they both play only Brandubh and they both play Brandubh at probably the strongest level.
2023-02-16 17:05:29 Colophonius: @ Draganov: Sounds reasonable! Only x10 games, each of us playing 5 games with black and 5 with white. Personally, I'd like to start after the 23. of february, because of an oral exam in linguistics, but you two can start as soon as you like.
2023-02-16 17:19:30 Draganov: Ok, invite me to 10 games match (timing x 10) when you can. I have already invited Irish Raven to such a match.
2023-02-16 18:12:00 Irish Raven: @Draganov It's a bit of a story. Auskor was a team of myself and my daughter founded during Covid quarantine. She gave up so I restarted on my own as Irish Raven.
2023-02-16 18:38:39 Colophonius: @ Draganov: Thanks, I'll do that!
2023-02-16 20:07:06 Colophonius: @ Masterluke: Nice new pieces!
2023-02-16 23:15:52 MasterLuke: @ Colophonius: Thanks!
2023-02-16 23:15:56 casshern: I will probably join the test tournament for Total Hnefatafl. But just to clarify the rules, it’s Copenhagen with draws allowed and berserk moves, correct? No special pieces or jumping though?
2023-02-16 23:24:25 Hagbard: Right. I suppose the king can jump to and from king's squares.
2023-02-16 23:27:36 casshern: Maybe no jumping at all, for now…
2023-02-16 23:32:45 Hagbard: The berserk marker is set, and it controls the berserk moves and the king jump.
2023-02-16 23:45:42 Draganov: I think in Total Hnefatafl the king can't jump at all. However, there is berserk capturing and the king can capture and goes to the corner if it is possible.
2023-02-17 00:30:33 casshern: @Hagbard: Understood. @Draganov: I just thought of that too. A good reminder for players. @All: To claify for Total Hnefatafl, the King can win with a berserk move by making a capture(s) and then moving to the corner immediately after. But the King cannot jump to or from restricted squares.
2023-02-17 00:36:53 casshern: @Hagbard: Not sure if you mentioned, but when do you plan to start the market test tournament, for the tournament format? Also, how many players are already signed up and what is the ideal/minimum number of players you are looking for to sign up?
2023-02-17 01:00:14 Hagbard: When we are enough players. 7 registered. There should be at least 12.
2023-02-17 15:24:53 Draganov: @Hagbard, in my game against MasterLuke from the tournament in Total Hnefatafl, I saw that my king can jump over a black viking and reach the corner. I played another move because I think this jumping king is too much advantageous for the whites. Do you think we had better remove the ability of the king to jump to a restricted square or we should test it like it is and see the balance first?
2023-02-17 19:29:26 Hagbard: Better to test it as it is for now.
2023-02-17 20:19:07 Draganov: @Hagbard, there is a bug in the Total Hneatafl. In my game with the blacks against MasterLuke, he can't make a move but the game continues instead of automatically be finished as a black win.
2023-02-17 20:52:18 Hagbard: White fixed it by resigning
2023-02-18 21:25:31 Hagbard: @Herjan, I just discovered that there was a UK National Hnefatafl Championships in Southport Oct. 19th 2019. Who won? And was there also a UK tournament in 2018?
2023-02-19 12:08:56 brave-frog: Hello @Hagbard! In one of my games with Rosk I believe I have build an edge fort. This tournament Total Hnefatafl 11x11 (2023-02-11, tourn. 459) I play white. Can you check this please? Because the game is still going
2023-02-19 12:09:58 brave-frog: I don't know how to send the link to the game. This is the position http://aagenielsen.dk/braetstilling2gif.php?spil=31&pw=18929&lillegif=1
2023-02-19 13:39:18 floki: @bravefrog : the answer is g2-g1
2023-02-19 23:04:19 Skye: @Draganov, Irish Raven an Colophonius. Draganov white is hard to beat but not impossible there are ways! And as I discussed with Colophonius the game would not have survived if white was sure to win. Good luck (all 3 players, especially with playing black).
2023-02-20 09:46:57 Hagbard: Total Hnefatafl: All white wins by king-jumps-to-corner seen in this test tournament would without the jump instead have been draws by king-in-corner-repetition. There have been very many white wins, so now the king cannot jump.
2023-02-20 19:47:15 Masterluke: Totally agree. When Dragonov came up with the idea mixing Fetlar and Copenhagen, I suggested to add the berserk move as well and call it ‘Total (Hnefa)tafl. I didn’t mean the king’s jump, but only the sequential captures. A jumping king in this game is too favorable for white, I think…
2023-02-20 21:26:01 Irish Raven: @Skye - I feel it is inevitable that on the small board it will be shown that one side or the other has a forced win.
2023-02-20 22:27:40 Skye: @Irish Raven. I think you are right concerning the board size and the inevitable win of one or the other side. I just meant to say black is not destined to lose as white is not destined to win.
2023-02-20 22:38:26 Skye: @Irish Raven. (Aftertought) it probably depends more on who - and how you - play then on the colour you're playing.
2023-02-21 13:57:09 Hagbard: New in gallery: Board Games Day in Zealand. http://aagenielsen.dk/hnefatafl_gallery.php
2023-02-21 15:32:02 Draganov: Regarding Brandubh, I think that one of the sides (I am still not sure which one) is winning from move 1. However, this side has 2 or 3 winning lines and the other possible moves are losing. So, in Brandubh one mistake can change the situation and the position can change from winning to losing in just 1 move. The player who is playing with the stronger color must find the winning lines after every opponent's move. Sometimes, the losing color play a strange move and then, the winning side has a challenge to respond properly. However, because the board is small, there are not so many possible moves and an experienced player can learn the winning lines in short period of active playing time.
2023-02-21 16:54:50 Skye: @Draganov, I don't think there is a fixed set of moves by either white or black that assures a win from the start of the game (if this what you mean?). I agree would agree with a statement that a certain combination of moves improves your chances of winning (white or black).
2023-02-21 17:26:50 Colophonius: Maybe Google DeepMind could solve that problem by creating a Brandubh-engine. ^^
2023-02-21 17:33:42 Draganov: @Skye, I will give an example of what I mean. Imagine that the whites are winning. The blacks have for move 1 about 5 different moves as option. 3 of them are absolutely losing and 2 are also losing but the whites must find the winning combination. Let
2023-02-21 17:34:22 Draganov: @Skye, I will give an example of what I mean. Imagine that the whites are winning. The blacks have for move 1 about 5 different moves as option. 3 of them are absolutely losing and 2 are also losing but the whites must find the winning combination. Let's imagine the blacks play 1.d2-e2, then the whites have several choices and imagine that 2 of them are keeping the winning chance and the other ones are losing. If they play some of these two moves that are winning, then they will be 1 move closer to the victory. Then the blacks have for example 3 choices. The first option is losing in 10 moves, the second is losing in 15 moves and the third one is losing in 20 moves. They choose to play option 1 and make a move that is leading to a loss in 10 moves but the whites must find the correct moves. Now, the whites must respond and they have 3 possible options. The first one is winning in 10 moves and it is the best one. The second option is winning in 15 moves and the third one is losing in 10 moves because it is a bad move. They play the third option making a blunder. Then, the blacks have 3 options. The first one is winning in 10 moves, the second one is a blunder and causing a loss in 10 moves and the third one is also a blunder that leads to a loss in 12 moves. They play the second option making a mistake and the whites are in a winning situation again but need to find the correct line.
2023-02-21 17:44:33 Draganov: @Colophonius, if the tafl game becomes more popular, some gaming companies will create a strong engine that will solve the game or at least will beat the strongest human easily with both colors. Maybe, in some simple variants the engine will be beaten by a human being with the stronger color but in more complex variants the win will be always on the side of the engine. For example in chess, there is no a single grandmaster who even thinks about competing against the best chess engines like Stockfish or AlphaZero. In the game of Go, the strongest engine (AlphaGo, created by DeepMind) smashed the former world champion Lee Sedol with the result of 4:1 and then defeated the current world champion Ke Jie with 3:0. Hnefatafl is much simpler game than Go and even chess, so a game could be easily solved by a strong engine.
2023-02-21 17:50:03 Colophonius: @Draganov: That's what I ment. I'm sure, they could do that en passant. The question is, if hnefatafl would then become as theory-based as chess - and how to contact them.
2023-02-21 17:59:55 Draganov: Actaully, DeepMind abandoned the development on AlphaZero and the creation of a strong engine that plays some board games and focus on different fields of AI development. Making a strong board game engine was just an experiment for them and they proved that they can create it. I think DeepMind will not be interested in making a hnefatafl engine. However, some gaming companies might be interested to do that. Other possible option is some AI enthusiasts to try making a new engine as an open-source project. However, as far as I know, there is still no a strong tafl engine that can beat the best players. On the mobile app, you can play against an AI but it is playing really bad. Maybe its playing strength is equal to the strength of a 1200-1300 player.
2023-02-21 18:08:09 Draganov: I don't think if we have a strong engine, the tafl game will just become more theoretical and the players will have homemade preparation with the help of an engine and then play some new lines after 10-15 moves like in chess. I think the engine will kill the tafl game. Tafl is simpler game than chess, so an engine will give the players the hints how to organize their defense and how to create indestructible structures with the blacks. Every player will know how to win with the stronger color. The only solution to keep tafl alive will be to play blitz (5 minutes for a player) and make some changes that make the game different. For example, inventing new variants which are not solved by the engine or making a flexible tafl variant like Chess960. For example, both players have 5 minutes time and the initial position is made by the computer and they start playing without any preparation.
2023-02-22 16:48:47 Hagbard: Total Hnefatafl: Converting the nine king-jumps-to-corner to draws (king-in-corner-repetition), changed immediately the game balance from +1.86 to +1.26
2023-02-22 20:03:08 Colophonius: Nice!
2023-02-23 13:18:15 floki: @all “Total” : my opinion about the so called Total” variant is quite mixed. At first, I found that adding berserk moves was appealing but then it doesn’t benefit to black or white. Hagbard I don’t know how you ended up with the game balance, I may be wrong but it feels like the hierarchy is not shaken. At the end, I think that this variant would be best without both berserk moves and draw….ie nothing compares to Copenhagen
2023-02-24 10:16:34 Hagbard: At the board game day last Saturday, instructors tried the Frisian Dablo and it worked well. The instructors specialized in other games, but they are seasoned players in any game.
2023-02-24 10:40:23 Hagbard: New videos from Alexander Steiger Dis ("Steiger"). The full series here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgwQwKg7Bb4iD7In9XHzx1A/videos
2023-02-27 11:56:42 Hagbard: https://vejr.tv2.dk/2023-02-27-nordlys-over-danmark-gav-et-fantastisk-syn
2023-02-27 12:16:07 Draganov: @Hagbard, in my tournament game against Alex, I mistaped on my phone and clicked on resign instead of send move. Can you please revert it. If it is not possible, it is ok to count me a loss.
2023-02-27 14:24:56 Hagbard: https://nordjyske.dk/nyheder/nordjylland/se-billederne-nordlys-dansede-over-hele-nordjylland/4141589 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-64782372
2023-02-27 16:02:53 Hagbard: https://www.solabladet.no/sa-du-nordlyset-sondag-kveld/s/5-106-458681 https://www.kvinnheringen.no/ogsa-i-kveld-kan-du-sja-nordlyset-dansa-over-kvinnherad/s/5-27-421888 https://www.ba.no/kraftig-nordlys-over-bergensomradet/s/5-8-2170082
2023-02-27 16:10:00 Hagbard: https://www.ckdr.net/2023/02/27/dryden-northern-lights/
2023-02-27 21:49:57 Hagbard: Look for Northern Lights tonight!!
2023-03-01 18:30:22 Draganov: Today I find this website where you can try about a hundred board games (modern and traditional). Some of the games are possible to be played against an AI, however, I don't know its strength. The site is wonderful because you can give it a try to games that are not well-known such as Mu Torere, Ming Mang, Senet and so many others. I saw that Sahkku was implemented but I don't know which variant of the game it is. Maybe Mihkkal can help with info about this variant. Here is the link to the website: https://glukkazan.github.io/index.html
2023-03-01 18:56:46 Draganov: Daldos is also implemented there and the variant that is used seems very playable and much more interesting than the variants that we are playing. Hagbard, can you check it and tell if this variant is a standard or a modern implementation? Is it possible to implement it here?
2023-03-01 19:30:28 Hagbard: I know the Dane who wrote the Daldos rules in Wikipedia. Some others have however made some changes in the text afterwards. There are Sahkku variants where pieces must be awakened in order, and other Sahkku variants where they don't need to be awakened in order.
2023-03-01 19:39:45 Hagbard: As a second combination of rules details I'd think of a Max Killings variant. That is, pieces awakened in any order, and one piece can kill two pieces. Which seems to be what is implemented in the Github.
2023-03-02 08:53:35 Hagbard: Most extraordinary site and work!! The Github site is rooted in Russia, so I'd recommend for the time being not to do any downloads. Anyway, I don't know for sure, but if it is safe to play the games (the creator says the technology used is Javascript), it's certainly entertaining, and the robot almost won Daldos against me one time and lost twenty times ...
2023-03-02 09:17:49 Draganov: In the variant of Daldos which is used in the mentioned website, the rules seem to be that a piece can be moved twice so it can kill two opponent's pieces in a turn. You can also activate whatever piece you want if there is a free space next to it so as to be able to make a 1-square move. All of the pieces are inactive in the beginning of the game. I think such a variant is more strategic than the other Daldos variants that we play.
2023-03-02 12:03:31 Hagbard: It still hasn't won but it's harder; I suspect that the robot strength increases.
2023-03-02 14:08:47 Skye: I think i agrre with Draganov (i only played a few games of daldos (daldosa) and i think it is more attractive. I think this is in part because you have more option and you are less reliant on the dice. I also like the bear game (because of it's simpicity i think.
2023-03-02 19:53:33 Skye: Maybe it's me but there are a lot of people called sig.... asking to play
2023-03-02 19:55:57 Skye: And not reacting if you react to there invitation.
2023-03-02 20:02:09 Skye: Can't imgagine its just me, noticing this. I'm all for an open platform but i don't know what to think about the sig.... person.
2023-03-02 20:14:39 Draganov: At first I thought that all of these 'sig' called players were bots but then I remembered Hagbard wrote a year ago that some students used this website for their Tafl University Tournament.
2023-03-02 20:25:29 floki: Amazing website ! Thx Plamen
2023-03-02 21:20:40 Skye: Ahhhh students
2023-03-03 07:55:50 Hagbard: Evening sky right now: In SW Venus and Jupiter in planetary conjunction. The full sky in S filled with the grand scenery of the hunter Orion with his two dogs, sword and arrow in position to shoot after the seven pidgins. - I believe that the grand figure actually is Thor with his hammer Mjølner. Thunder is: Thor rushes across the sky with a terrible noise from his wheels, killing giants throwing his hammer to the earth - the lightning. But the hammer always returns, see for yourself in the sky, it is always in his belt -
2023-03-03 16:59:47 casshern: @Hagbard: Can you deregister me from the test tournament. I am going to be taking a break from play for now.
2023-03-03 18:09:47 Hagbard: ok
2023-03-04 10:55:43 Hagbard: Finished tournaments: Tyr 15x15: #1 Draganov, #2 Jrton80, #3 Masterluke Daldos 3x14: #1 Rosk, #2 Floki, #3 Holidayinnes and Xerxes Tawlbwrdd Lewis cross 11x11: #1 Paul7, #2 Dimetr, #3 Potapych Tyr 11x11: #1 Holidayinnes, #2 Draganov, #3 Masterluke Frisian Dablo 11x9: #1 Brave-frog, #2 Holidayinnes and Hagbard Berserk Hnefatafl 11x11: #1 Casshern, #2 Draganov, #3 Holidayinnes Hex 11x11: #1 Casshern, #2 Paul7 and Rosk Historical Hnefatafl 13x13: #1 Draganov, #2 Jrton80, #3 Masterluke Alea Evangelii Berserk 19x19: #1 Draganov, #2 Jrton80, #3 Potapych Daldos 3x16: #1 Tengrikut, #2 Rosk, #3 Holidayinnes, Hagbard and Xerxes Historical Hnefatafl 13x13 (modif. Parlett 2): #1 Draganov, #2 Masterluke, #3 Jrton80 Daldos 3x12: #1 Floki, #2 Xerxes and Brave-frog Total Hnefatafl 11x11: #1 Casshern, #2 Draganov, #3 Holidayinnes and Potapych
2023-03-09 22:15:24 Draganov: I was thinking about classifying the tafl openings and building some game theory. I think it will be good if we have names for the different opening moves. It will help us to analyze and commend the games little bit easier. I think we can name the tafl openings in a similar way like the chess openings.
2023-03-09 22:26:55 Draganov: Here are the names I suggest for the openings: Millar Gambit Accepted: 1.h1-h3 g5-g2; 2. h3-h2xg2 Millar Gambit Declined: every move which doesn't take the viking on G2 French Opening: 1.g1-g3 named after the French players Plantagenet, Floki and Ytreza who often played it. German Opening: 1.h1-h3 d6-d9 named after Schachus and Math English Opening: 1.h1-h3 f8-i8 named after Crust and Herjan Russian Opening: 1.h1-h3 h6-h9 named after Alex Hnefatafl
2023-03-09 22:37:20 Draganov: Italian Opening: 1.h1-h3 f8-c8 named after Mmagari. American Opening: 1.f2-i2 named after Altti and Cacreal Canadian Opening: 1.h1-h4 named after Cacreal Face-to-Face attack: 1.h1-h3 d6-d3 named like that because the vikings on h3 and d3 are facing each other. Side Attack: 1.h1-h3 f4-i4 the whites are trying to attack from the side. Dutch Opening: 1.g1-g2 named after P57xy. Bulgarian Opening: 1.h1-h3 g5-g4 named after Draganov.
2023-03-09 22:44:19 Draganov: There are three more openings which are rarely played and it is difficult to named them after specific players. So, I just give them some names similar to the others: Scandinavian Opening: 1.f2-j2 Spanish Opening: 1.h1-h3 f4-c4 Polar Gambit: 1.h1-h3 h6-h10 named Polar Gambit because it is so rarely seen that only people who live in Antarctica probably play it.
2023-03-09 22:55:14 Draganov: Hungarian Opening: 1.h1-h3 e7-e9 named after Huzsiati. Indirect Millar Gambit: 1.h1-h3 e7-b7 or g7-j7 or e7-e10 the idea is that Tim Millar offered a sacrifice not directly to the black opened side but to some of the untouched sides. Irregular Opening: all other opening moves like 1.f2-k2 or 1.f2-f3 or 1.h1-h5 or 1.g1-g4 or some strange white's responds to 1.h1-h3 like f8-g8 or f8-g8.
2023-03-09 23:16:54 Draganov: The biggest issue with building tafl opening theory is that in tafl we have the chance to play one opening in several different rotated ways. For example, in some of the games a player starts with 1.h1-h3 while in other games the first move is 1.k8-i8. It is practically the same move in both games but in the second example the board is rotated. And 1.h11-h9 is the same like 1.h1-h3 but mirrored. So, I think we need to normalize the board before analyzing the games. I think the most commonly played first move is 1.h1-h3. Moreover, it comes naturally for a right-handed player to start like that on a real board. So, I take it as a base and normalize all of the other rotated moves according to it. I created a computer program which takes the notation of a game and normalize it like it was played from the standard side (h1-h3). Then, the program tells me what is the name of the opening that was played. The program can accept a list of multiple games, normalizing all of them, naming the games according the opening names and display a statistics about how many of each opening were played. I test it with all 26 games of Schachus from the world championship 2014 and now I am going to use it for analyzing all of the games of the world champions from the championship that they won. I will post the result in the forum in the next days.
2023-03-10 08:38:34 Hagbard: Interesting! The Millar Gambit was the first opening which was discovered in 2010 (by Millar) when we started to play human against human via the internet (for Fetlar; we knew only about Old Hnefatafl and Fetlar Hnefatafl in those days; besides a heavily unbalanced Skalk Hnefatafl). Before this opening we didn't have a good way for white to break through against a good black player.
2023-03-10 09:13:02 Draganov: Yes, Millar Gambit seems to be revolutionary. And it is still valid and often used today. However, nowadays we have a lot of good opening moves for whites that are leading to complex games. For me, it will be interesting to analyze how Tim Millar himself played against Millar Gambit.
2023-03-10 09:27:26 Colophonius: Such a program could maybe also help to 'clean' the balance statistics from games, which have been played several times, although Copenhagen 11x11 is much more complex than Brandubh 7x7. I like the name polar gambit btw.
2023-03-10 16:15:38 Draganov: @Colophonius, I can create a similar program for normalizing the Brandubh game notations. You can think about some names for the Brandubh openings.
2023-03-11 12:25:35 Hagbard: Planned three tourn. format tests in April: http://aagenielsen.dk/wtfdoubleelimtest4.php
2023-03-11 13:08:26 Hagbard: https://www.dr.dk/drtv/se/gaaden-om-odin_-manden-paa-stenen_370331
2023-03-11 18:31:36 Draganov: Here is the topic in the big forum regarding my approach to normalize the game notations as the games were played from the standard side. I posted all of the games of Schachus from the World Championship 2014 with normalized game notations. I also gave some overview of the used openings. http://aagenielsen.dk/hnefataflforum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=151
2023-03-11 18:32:12 Draganov: Feel free to comment or analyze the games or just share your thoughts and opinion.
2023-03-16 14:01:14 Draganov: @Hagbard, in my Bell touurnament game against Alex it seems he repeated the same position more than three times but the repetition rule seems disabled.
2023-03-16 14:19:04 Hagbard: Please try again -
2023-03-18 20:02:00 Hagbard: https://www.dr.dk/drtv/se/gaaden-om-odin_-haralds-guder_370329
2023-03-24 07:20:22 Hagbard: I.a. about the Sutton Hoo helmet: https://www.dr.dk/drtv/se/gaaden-om-odin_-hjelmens-magt_370326
2023-03-26 13:51:49 Hagbard: The Market Hnefatafl tourn. format test can start after April 9. Here is shown how the tourn. would be set up with the current 13 players: http://aagenielsen.dk/wtfdoubleelimtest4.php
2023-03-27 13:48:37 Draganov: @Hagbard, it seems that encircling rule is not implemented in the Total Hnefatafl. I surrounded all of the pieces of Mika but the game continues.
2023-03-27 16:31:45 Hagbard: please try again
2023-03-27 18:07:26 Draganov: It is fixed, thanks!
2023-03-27 19:36:47 Draganov: Now Mika can't move but the game continues
2023-03-27 19:59:24 Hagbard: He'll have to click Surrender for now
2023-03-27 23:31:10 Hagbard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBeXF_lnj_M
2023-03-28 10:22:40 Hagbard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZnlgMgou-g
2023-03-29 15:27:55 Draganov: @Hagbard, as I can see, only 5 players registered for the test tournament of Total Hnefatafl which is going to take place in April. I think we have enough players to test the improved (in my opinion) double elimination format for Sahkku and Weak King variant. However, with only 5 players we can't test a strong king variant. So, my suggestion is to test different format with the Total Hnefatafl. Here is what I propose: a quintuple round-robin tournament. This format was used to determine the new chess world champion in 1948. After the death of the reigning world champion Alekhine, the chess title became vacant. Then FIDE decided to organize a quintuple round-robin tournament including the best 5 players in that time (Botvinnik, Smyslov, Keres, Reshevsky and Euwe). All players faced each other 5 times and but we can face each other for 4 games so to have equal numbers of games with blacks and whites.
2023-03-29 22:31:56 Hagbard: Market Hnefatafl and Sahkku can be tested. Perhaps more players come for Total Hnefatafl, too; or else it could as you suggest be tested as a double Round Robin that is 4 games against each opponent. It would however much change the player experience. In the Diagonal format each strong player can concentrate on 4 games at a time, whereas in a Round Robin he would have 8 games at a time.
2023-03-29 22:32:25 Hagbard: https://www.dr.dk/drtv/se/gaaden-om-odin_-den-romerske-gud_370330
2023-04-01 20:42:54 Skye: When exactly will the tournament start (for me Market Hnefatafl)? Just like to know, if it still takes a while I could play an other game. But if it starts for example tomorrow I would like to focus on the tournament. Thanks in advance, and good luck in and around the tournaments to everyone.
2023-04-01 20:51:15 Skye: Just read after the 9th of April.?
2023-04-01 22:56:27 Hagbard: Market Hnefatafl and Sahkku test of Diagonal Tournament format: April 11.
2023-04-01 23:17:13 Skye: @ Hagbard, thanks.
2023-04-05 22:09:31 Hagbard: New in gallery: Easter
2023-04-05 22:16:52 Hagbard: https://www.dr.dk/drtv/se/gaaden-om-odin_-krigeren-fra-oest_370327
2023-04-08 08:04:15 Hagbard: NB Market Hnef. and Sahkku tournaments planned to start April 11th.
2023-04-09 12:05:08 xerxes: @Hagbard. Can you remove me from the Sahkku tournament please - I am going to be away for a couple of weeks. Thanks
2023-04-10 21:54:34 Hagbard: @xerxes, ok
2023-04-10 21:55:10 Hagbard: Finished tournaments: Historical Hnefatafl 11x11 (Welsh Tawlbwrdd-w): #1 Alex hnefatafl, #2 Draganov, #3 Paul7 Saami Sahkku 3x15 (Kaafjord): #1 Holidayinnes, #2 Rosk, #3 Draganov Simple Tafl T cross-w 9x9: #1 Draganov, #2 Jilles, #3 Jrton80 Daldos 3x14: #1 Jilles, #2 Holidayinnes, #3 Potapych Frisian Dablo 11x9: #1 Holidayinnes, #2 Brave-frog, #3 Jrton80 Copenhagen Hnefatafl 13x13: #1 Draganov, #2 Jrton80, #3 Fraech Market Hnefatafl 9x9: #1 Draganov, #2 Masterluke, #3 Skye Daldos 3x16: #1 Potapych, #2 Holidayinnes and Xerxes Simple Tafl 5x5: #1 Holidayinnes, #2 Draganov, #3 Brave-frog Daldos 3x12: #1 Potapych, Holidayinnes, Brave-frog and Rosk Total Hnefatafl 11x11: #1 Draganov, #2 Jrton80 and Potapych Brandubh 7x7 (Walker): #1 Draganov, #2 Paul7, #3 Brave-frog Daldos 3x14: #1 Xerxes, Potapych and Holidayinnes Frisian Dablo 11x9: #1 Holidayinnes and Jrton80, #3 Brave-frog Sea battle-204577-w 11x11: #1 Draganov, #2 Brave-frog and Paul7 Daldos 3x16: #1 Brave-frog and Holidayinnes, #3 Rosk Alea Berserk 19x19 (Bartley): #1 Draganov, #2 Jrton80, #3 Brave-frog Simple Tafl T cross-w 9x9: #1 Draganov, #2 Potapych and Jrton80 Daldos 3x12: #1 Jrton80, #2 Potapych and Rosk
2023-04-11 14:22:45 Draganov: @Hagbard, is there any elimination in the Market Hnefatafl tournament?
2023-04-11 16:53:06 Hagbard: Market Hnef. and Sahkku: 4 lost games eliminates.
2023-04-12 22:23:19 Hagbard: https://www.dr.dk/drtv/se/gaaden-om-odin_-ragnarok_370328
2023-04-13 11:14:22 Hagbard: NB Cromwell and Mika have not started their games.
2023-04-15 11:50:51 Hagbard: May 1st a format test more using Daldøs 14: Each player only two opponents per round.
2023-04-18 10:13:21 Hagbard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRQWUbpcaBk
2023-04-20 10:52:57 Hagbard: NB Market Hnefatafl and Total Hnefatafl format tests: Round Two started.
2023-04-20 20:07:19 Hagbard: - and Sahkku Round Two.
2023-04-27 13:41:13 Hagbard: Daldos tournament described (race games format 2): http://aagenielsen.dk/wtfdoubleelimtest4.php
2023-04-28 08:52:29 Hagbard: NB Market Hnefatafl format test: Round Three started.
2023-04-30 16:02:01 Hagbard: NB Daldos format test tomorrow.
2023-04-30 21:33:04 Hagbard: https://www.dr.dk/drtv/se/togtet_-vikingernes-store-droemme_378819
2023-05-02 19:39:42 Hagbard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRIlTvYp0ok
2023-05-05 22:49:11 Jrton80: @hagbard, in my Copenhagen game with Потапыч, should not the shield wall rule have captured the King?
2023-05-05 23:10:22 Hagbard: No; we (Adam, Millar and I) decided that the king can never be captured on the edge also not in this case.
2023-05-08 00:02:13 Hagbard: https://www.dr.dk/drtv/se/togtet_-en-aerefuld-doed_384656
2023-05-10 10:58:37 Draganov: @All, last year I challenged myself to play 130 tafl games at once. I scored well in this challenge and didn't have any problems with the timing. However, it was difficult to play in so many different variants since I gave the chance to my opponents to choose the variants that they want to play against me. Switching between weak and strong king variants and between large and small boards was the most difficult part of the challenge. So, this year I would like to test myself in playing 100+ simultaneous games in strong king variants only. I hope that my challenge will be interesting for the players and more players will agree to play against me. What is my proposal for the format of the challenge? I would like to play against as many opponents as possible. So, every player should be welcome to join and play against me. I want to play a match of 10 games against each player in the challenge. So, if a player joins the challenge, then he/she will have to play 10 games against me. I would like to give a chance of my opponents to choose between different strong king variants. However, I have some limitations to it. If players are rated above 1700, then they must choose between Standard Copenhagen or Copenhagen Bell. (Players can choose even number of games to be played in one variant and even numbers of games in another one. For example 4 games in Copenhagen Bell and 6 in Standard Copenhagen). If players are rated between 1500 and 1700, then they must choose between Standard Copenhagen, Copenhagen Bell, Total Hnefatafl and Fetlar. If players are rated below 1500, then they can choose between Standard Copenhagen, Copenhagen Bell, Total Hnefatafl, Fetlar and Old Hnefatafl.
2023-05-10 11:02:01 Draganov: @Hagbard, do you think this kind of challenge would be interesting and is it possible to organize it as a tournament in a similar way as the Beat the Champion tournament? I mean to create a tournament link where players can register for the challenge. Maybe they will need to express their preferred variant in the chat. If a variant is not mentioned by them, the Standard Copenhagen must be the default variant.
2023-05-10 11:05:09 Draganov: The timing for the challenge must be Timing x2 as in every tournament.
2023-05-10 18:56:38 Hagbard: Interesting project. I think it would be possible to set up somewhat similar to the Beat The Winners. I'd have time to have a look at it after two weeks, and by then also the current format test would be finished.
2023-05-16 22:41:11 Skye: Question: what does the 'running man symbol mean'?
2023-05-16 22:51:43 Hagbard: Fast player
2023-05-17 06:34:03 Skye: Thanks
2023-05-18 08:45:33 Dimetr: Hagbard hello! It's look like a bug. In my game with Draganov (Tablut -W tournament, I play black) it's impossible to make the move, what I want - A6-C6. The program allows me to make any over move except A6-C6.
2023-05-18 09:52:24 Hagbard: @Dimetr, NB! I made the move you mention. I did not meet a problem with it, I don't know what has happened.
2023-05-18 13:03:26 Dimetr: Hagbard! It's ok now, thanks
2023-05-19 20:00:24 Hagbard: The format test finished. Thank you to the players for testing it!! http://aagenielsen.dk/wtfdoubleelimtest4.php
2023-05-22 20:09:31 Hagbard: https://www.dr.dk/drtv/se/togtet_-kampen-om-england_386302
2023-05-22 21:19:25 Hagbard: https://www.dr.dk/drtv/se/togtet_-utopia-og-blodfejder_387828
2023-05-23 20:36:53 Hagbard: Finished tournaments: Tyr 15x15: #1 Draganov, #2 Jrton80, #3 Masterluke Daldos 3x14: #1 Potapych, #2 Xerxes and Brave-frog Total Hnefatafl 11x11: #1 Draganov, #2 Potapych, #3 Jrton80 Historical Hnefatafl 11x11 (Welsh Tawlbwrdd-w): #1 Alex hnefatafl, #2 Draganov, #3 Jrton80 Copenhagen Hnefatafl Bell 11x11: #1 Draganov and Alex hnefatafl, #3 Jrton80 Daldos 3x16: #1 Holidayinnes, #2 Rosk, #3 Brave-frog Simple Tafl 11x11: #1 Potapych, #2 Draganov, #3 Dimetr Copenhagen Hnefatafl 11x11: #1 Draganov, #2 Alex hnefatafl, #3 Potapych Total Hnefatafl 11x11: #1 Draganov, #2 Potapych and Jrton80 Historical Hnefatafl 7x7 (Irish Brandubh 2): #1 Irish raven, #2 Draganov, #3 Colophonius Berserk Hnefatafl 11x11: #1 Draganov and Holidayinnes, #3 Jrton80 Historical Hnefatafl 9x9 (Saami Tablut-w): #1 Alex hnefatafl, #2 Draganov and Potapych
2023-05-25 11:48:49 Draganov: @Hagbard, thank you for creating a tournament in which the players can accept my challenge and play against me. I would be glad if more players join the challenge.
2023-05-25 17:48:47 Hagbard: You're welcome -
2023-05-27 19:57:26 Hagbard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fqrq_QEcBxw
2023-05-27 20:05:31 Hagbard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CQNERpEcAI
2023-05-28 12:50:25 Hagbard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z45RruFz8SM
2023-05-28 20:59:54 Hagbard: https://www.dr.dk/drtv/se/togtet_-en-uovervindelig-fjende_388888
2023-05-29 09:35:39 Hagbard: NB. The large forum is now temporarily opened for new registering.
2023-06-02 10:17:42 Hagbard: NB! The Copenhagen tournament 533 is a test of the timing for World Tourn. 2023. Timing x4: time buffer 5.5 days, incr. per move 8 hours. When a game lasted a long time, the increment per move is gradually reduced. Protected miminum time per move 2 hours (!).
2023-06-04 20:59:58 Hagbard: https://www.dr.dk/drtv/se/togtet_-opdagelsen-af-vinland_387642
2023-06-05 08:38:05 Hagbard: https://sagabyentonsberg.no/tonsberg-middelalderfestival/
2023-06-13 19:08:12 Hagbard: https://www.dr.dk/drtv/se/forsvundne-verdener-og-skjulte-skatte_-osebergskibet_259825
2023-06-13 19:43:45 Hagbard: https://www.dr.dk/drtv/se/forsvundne-verdener-og-skjulte-skatte_-sutton-hoo_skatten_207520
2023-06-13 20:13:12 Hagbard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvLWP9Hru60
2023-06-14 20:02:28 JanK: Hi
2023-06-15 16:34:05 Draganov: @Hagbard, can we test different initial setup for Copenhagen? I think the Copenhagen Bell proved to work well. Its balance is even better than the Standard Copenhagen. I think Lewis Cross setup (like in Simple Tafl 11x11) could also be interesting and probably well-balanced as well as T Cross setup (like in Foteviken cross 11x11).
2023-06-15 19:14:35 xerxes: @Hagbard. It seems some players are making use of the bug in Daldos which allows a piece to be moved twice in one go (I had wondered why a particular player did so well !). Are there any plans to fix the bug, or should we all start exploiting it in tournament play ?
2023-06-15 22:06:47 Hagbard: @Draganov, it can be tested after the Cop. @Xerxes, yes the bug must be found. Daldøs14 is planned to be first round in the race world tourn., and this feature is certainly not part of the rules.
2023-06-16 09:31:19 Draganov: @Hagbard, could you also check why if a player times-out his game before move 4, the winner is also losing rating points? I think it might be because the app is considering that the game is a draw and the higher rated player is losing some points despite he is winning the game. Maybe if a game finish due to time-out or even if it is shorter than 4 moves (some players used to resign after the game started), the game must be considered as 'No contest' and no points are added or deducted.
2023-06-16 18:10:21 Hagbard: I'll have a look.
2023-06-16 18:10:53 Hagbard: NB. The large forum is now temporarily opened for new registering.
2023-06-18 06:54:54 Hagbard: Both bugs fixed
2023-06-18 10:10:37 xerxes: Thanks Aage
2023-06-18 10:17:12 Hagbard: Plan: In 9 days, when more Cop. games are finished, another test of the world tourn. timing using Welsh Tawlbwrdd-w 11x11, and after that a third using Saami Tablut-w 9x9.
2023-06-18 10:59:16 brave-frog: Hello @Hagbard! There is no more possible to move the same pawn in Dalods twice. If I've moved a pawn once, than clicked on the second pawn, than clicked on the first, this, already moved pawn, isn't movable.
2023-06-18 11:01:10 brave-frog: Is it a bug fixing or did you decide to remove this trick?
2023-06-18 14:40:32 floki: @all What’s wrong with the so called bug at Daldo ? I go along with brave-frog and rather call it a trick. I personally think that this move could be legal and taken as part of the God of dice willing ! Come on Xerxes how can you say that « some players are making use of it », spotting « a particular player » making so well ! It’s just a fun and not rated game !
2023-06-18 18:56:56 Hagbard: It was a bug - you happened to find a loophole in the software. Wikipedia describes this moves pattern. And in the bottom of the page mentions the other style as a possible variation. One more reason to choose the style used, is that it increases the difference between Daldøs and Sahkku.
2023-06-19 12:11:08 Luizz: An opponent of mine just timed out in one of their games (Jank, I played white). However, I lost 9 points. How is this possible?
2023-06-19 20:27:19 Hagbard: strange
2023-06-24 00:08:16 Hagbard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyVkis6MoDA
2023-06-27 22:05:53 Hagbard: New in gallery: Midsummer Eve
2023-06-29 15:34:13 Draganov: I started analyzing the Copenhagen openings based on the data of more than 2000 games. You can see my findings here: http://aagenielsen.dk/hnefataflforum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=153
2023-06-29 15:35:50 Draganov: I also updated the topic for the Openings that were used by the world champs by adding analyses on how Nath won the world championship in 2013. You can see the topic here: http://aagenielsen.dk/hnefataflforum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=151
2023-06-30 13:05:33 floki: @ Draganov: thanks ever so much Plamen for sharing the community your significant and fruitful work !
2023-07-02 05:46:32 Jrton80: FYI - all 3 of us in the current Saami Daabloe 11x9 are disappointed with the lack of mandatory capture.
2023-07-02 11:18:34 Hagbard: Interesting!! The normal Dablo is one of our longest games; 80 moves in average. With mandatory capture the game length is only 60 moves in average like the 11x11 tafl variants. After the Dablo there'll be a Frisian Dablo tourn.
2023-07-02 13:34:24 Hagbard: Finished tournaments: Tawlbwrdd Lewis cross 11x11: #1 Draganov, #2 Dimetr, #3 Potapych Fetlar Hnefatafl 11x11: #1 Draganov, #2 Rosk, #3 Jank Tyr 11x11: #1 Draganov and Jrton80, #3 Brave-frog Frisian Dablo 11x9: #1 Holidayinnes, #2 Jrton80 and Rosk Simple Tafl 5x5: #1 Draganov, #2 Brave-frog, #3 Potapych Copenhagen Hnefatafl 13x13: #1 Draganov, #2 Potapych, #3 Masterluke Daldos 3x12: #1 Rosk, #2 Holidayinnes, #3 Potapych Alea Berserk 19x19: #1 Draganov, #2 Jrton80, #3 Brave-frog Saami Sahkku 3x15: #1 Holidayinnes, #2 Draganov, #3 Potapych and Hagbard Copenhagen Hnefatafl 11x11: #1 Draganov, #2 Dimetr, #3 Potapych and Pc.a59xy Simple Tafl T cross-w 9x9: #1 Draganov, #2 Potapych, #3 Masterluke Daldos 3x16: #1 Potapych, #2 Xerxes, #3 Draganov, Holidayinnes, Jrton80 and Rosk Tyr 15x15: #1 Draganov, #2 Holidayinnes, #3 Masterluke Market Hnefatafl 9x9: #1 Draganov, #2 Masterluke, #3 Themightyglider Daldos 3x14: #1 Holidayinnes, #2 Xerxes, Potapych and Floki Historical Hnefatafl 7x7 (Irish Brandubh 2): #1 Dimetr, #2 Draganov, #3 Colophonius and Paul7 Daldos 3x12: #1 Draganov, #2 Rosk, #3 Holidayinnes
2023-07-02 19:24:13 Colophonius: @Hagbard: Greetings! Hagbard, could you do me a favor and resign for me in my running Brandubh 2 tournament game against Brave-frog? It's definitly lost for me, but I'm pretty sure, he won't have the time to make a next move, so that I could resign myself. That would be kind :)
2023-07-02 20:43:45 Hagbard: ok
2023-07-02 22:50:50 Colophonius: Thank you!
2023-07-04 19:23:43 Dimetr: Hagbard! My message for my opponent in the game, don't work. ,Now I send some message to Draganov
2023-07-04 19:24:37 Dimetr: but they are not visible
2023-07-04 19:45:35 Dimetr: It's ok now, exercise me
2023-07-04 22:33:08 Dimetr: All! Some time ago I wrote about Robert ap Ifan manuscript, about Tawlbwrdd http://aagenielsen.dk/hnefataflforum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=25&start=10
2023-07-04 22:37:49 Dimetr: It sad, what it,s still not possible to see a manuscript (good scan copy). I don't understand why the National Library of Wales still not published the manuscript. Maybe now manuscript is lost?
2023-07-04 22:40:54 Dimetr: And it will be great if someone who knows English well, will write a letter to Wales Library. Ask library to open access to Peniarth Manuscript 158
2023-07-06 17:21:54 Draganov: @Dimetr, do you expect to find information in the manuscript that can change the rules of Tawlbwrdd? I think we have enough information to reconstruct the rules of the game and moreover, it is better to find a well-balanced and working variant than to find the original setup.
2023-07-06 23:11:16 Dimetr: Draganov@ I jast want to don't let the manuscript get lost. There are only 2 historical documents with Tafl rules - Linnaeus Diary (published long time ago) And Robert ap Ifan manuscript (which is not open, and keep in secret, we don't know why). Maybe it's lost now, or maybe Wales library don't know that it's important.
2023-07-07 08:32:31 Dimetr: This is Tablut rules by Linnaeus https://linnean-online.org/157328/#?s=0&cv=0
2023-07-07 09:09:51 Hagbard: Just to add a note to Dmitrij's ("Dimetr") theme of Tawlbwrdd: Dmitrij mentions in the forums the splendid article by Alessandro Arzani ("Abbas Agraphicus"): http://aagenielsen.dk/hnefataflforum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=25&p=1691#p1688 The game balance values in the summary are updated, they're the most accurate balance values we have right now: http://aagenielsen.dk/tawlbwrdd_summary.php Shifting the Tawlbwrdd Bell to white begins instead of black, shifted the balance +0.35. The table of balances show, that white begins should be tested also for Lewis Cross with and without throne.
2023-07-07 18:39:32 Dimetr: Hagbard, could you please, write to the Wales library, ask they to send a scan of Robert up Ifan manuscript for us?
2023-07-07 18:40:34 Dimetr: This is their contact https://www.library.wales/about-nlw/about-us/contact-us
2023-07-07 18:43:52 Dimetr: Arzani tell it is in the, Peniarth Manuscript 158, in Folio 4,
2023-07-07 19:14:18 Hagbard: My English is for everyday use - it's not adequate for corresponding with official entities -
2023-07-08 10:33:09 Draganov: I think it will be better if someone related to Tafl Federation contact the Wales Library. It will have more weight if Aage, Tim Millar or Adam Bartley send the letter than someone who is just a tafl player. It will be better if the manuscript copy is asked from the name of the Federation.
2023-07-08 12:56:49 Colophonius: Yes, and maybe not just a copy, but a transcript, so that everyone can read it. I just saw, that the library currently is digitalizing the Peniarth manuscripts, so I wouldn't be too worried about the risk of losing them; their importance seems to be known. https://www.library.wales/catalogues-searching/about-our-collections/manuscripts/the-peniarth-manuscripts
2023-07-12 10:54:08 Draganov: @Hagbard, can we test Copenhagen rules with different initial positions. I would like to test it with the setup of Simple Tafl 11x11 and Foteviken Cross 11x11. Maybe next week we could have test tournaments of these variants.
2023-07-13 22:16:11 Draganov: @Hagbard, could you also check one small bug. In the rating list the system awarded Odinhimself and Bogd Khan the titles of world champions. Although they are both as strong players as the official world champions, they have never won the world tafl championship. Holidayinnes was also wrongly awarded as Most tournament winner (tw), which is also not true. Casshern was the player with the most tournament wins and recently I broke his record for that
2023-07-13 23:53:48 Hagbard: About new variant: there is some error in a development file right now, which must be found first. About the title codes: World: current world champ., W was world champ., w world championship #2. TW: won the most tournaments, tw won the most tourn. #2.
2023-07-14 13:49:24 Draganov: Now, I understand. However, it will be good to be mentioned that w (with lowercase letter) means 2nd place in a world championship.
2023-07-14 17:19:01 Hagbard: done
2023-07-14 22:06:02 Dimetr: My friends! Join Welsh Tawlbwrdd-w tournament! There are only 3 players now, and it's not enough to test openings and strategy
2023-07-16 07:48:24 Hagbard: As for Tawlbwrdd Lewis Cross with and without throne with white begins: This was tried earlier for the case without throne and was apparently no good - white won all test games.
2023-07-16 22:11:08 Dimetr: Hagbard! About Tawlbwrdd Lewis cross - W 11x11 - I think it was not enough games for conclusions. We need tournament for test it. Maybe you will start a tournament next week? However I think, white need a Throne in the Lewis version, necessarily. But first move, does not matter so much (unlike the Tablut).
2023-07-16 22:13:58 Dimetr: Besides, I think what Tawlbwrdd Lewis cross (with Throan) - is the best and most interesting version in historical Tafl. The starting position makes the game very variable, players can choose from many moves. It will be very nice, to include a Lewis cross in the World championship, why not? Maybe - instead of Tawlbwrdd Bell, or in the final of historical tournament?
2023-07-17 20:49:24 Draganov: I agree with Dimetr that Tawlbwrdd Lewis cross - W 11x11 with a throne is a great variant. However, I do think that the first move must be for the whites. If the blacks move first it will be very difficult for the whites to win. Don't count old games where the majority of the players didn't know how to play with the blacks well. Nowadays, it is really difficult to beat a 1600+ player and even a 1500+ player with the whites. So, in my opinion we need to strengthen the whites as much as possible in most of the variants. That's why a throne and whites moving first must be the norm.
2023-07-18 17:05:06 Draganov: I think adding Tawlbwrdd Lewis cross - W 11x11 in the weak king world championship would be good. At least we can use this variant for the final battle if there is a Round 3. I think Tablut and Welsh Tawlbwrdd are suitable variants for Round 1 and Round 2. In Sea Battle championship I was glad to see that we will not play Sea battle-204577-w 11x11. Last year we played it in R2 and R3 and it was too much in favour of the blacks. Playing Sea battle tafl 11x11 in R2 is the right choice in my opinion. I would recommend if there is R3 in the Sea Battle championship to use Sea battle tafl 13x13 or Sea battle tafl 13x13 (Nielsen).
2023-07-18 22:51:28 Dimetr: Yes, it will be right choice, to use Tawlbwrdd Lewis for the final. Tawlbwrdd Bell, maybe not bad, but it seems, what players doesn't like it (sorry if i'm wrong). In the Bell variant the battle takes place in a very limited space. It's like playing long and closed position in chess - too difficult (and maybe - a little boring...)
2023-07-19 17:00:23 Draganov: @Hagbard, nice to see you join the world championship. I think you still can give hard fight to anyone. Btw, you should put (w) next to your name in the rating list since you finished second in the world championship in 2011. If Mac and Hugues are disquallified your performance is better than Adam's in 2011. Even without disquallifing them, you played 1 game less than him.
2023-07-19 17:56:48 Hagbard: Yeh I join all four branches this year on occasion of the 25 years anniversary ... At the 2011 tournament we were very few. Today's players would think that 2011 was an easy year.
2023-07-19 20:07:22 Draganov: Next year 2024 will be 10 years since the death of Peter Kelly. I was thinking about having a memorial tournament using Fetlar rules in his honour. We can invite some of the prominent Fetlar masters to take place in this special tournament like Crust, Adam, Herjan, Tonythebook, Animals and other British players who were related to Fetlar community.
2023-07-19 20:08:42 Draganov: And I don't mean Fetlar rules to be used to determine the world champion in 2024 but to be used only for the memorial tournament.
2023-07-19 20:10:15 Hagbard: Sounds good, the old foxes will win it all -
2023-07-20 11:27:15 Hagbard: Just to mention that these players have not registered for the World Tourn.: Abbas Agraphicus, Adam, Agmundr, Altti, Animals, Archibald K., Arevidar, Arne64, Asther-Kane, Bigwurm91, Bogd Khan, Boucher228, branan, Brench, cacreal, casshern, ChaolAibhne, chuck ward, Conanlibrarian, Cromwell, crust, Cyningstan, Ded Fomich, Docbullen, Duhawk93, EilidhAnIorua, epm180, Epoc, fairland, floki, Fraech, garun19, Gungnir, Harry64, Helfrich, herjan, Hnefihunter, Hok, huzsiati, Irish raven, jarcin, jilles, Juergen, jules, Jurgenson, kAAgEE, KayKyber, Kihtan, Kllimm, konrad7890, L716, Lalli The Hunter, Leoak477, Makhiraen, marcin, mihkkal, Mika, mmagari, Mykle, Nath, Nikos1820, Oddur, OdinHimself, Orlo, Patterson, Paul7, Pavel Dusenko, pc.a59xy, pedro, Pie96, Plantagenet, Red-Ron, rideroflight, Rollo, Rook, rosk, Rossomaha, Sauron, Schachus, Sebastianmucke, Sigurd, skallatorc, Skye, staticmatic, Steiger, Sybil, Tengrikut, Teondrae, Thanir, thebigfoot, themightyglider, Tonythebook, Toscano, Trygve, tuireann, unhandyandy, Unterwichtel, Volkenpuk, Vonraider, Waegn, Wesley Alves, william the 3rd, Ytreza
2023-07-20 22:58:15 Hagbard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_Vgp8ASDz8
2023-07-23 22:32:16 Hagbard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9MIGUmJagU
2023-07-28 11:19:44 Hagbard: Plan: After the main World Tourn. which starts Sep. 15th, then extra this year also an Outsiders' Tournament (outsider variants) of Total Hnefatafl 11x11, Market Hnefatafl 9x9, Tyr 11x11 and Frisian Dablo, this year finding four masters of these also. One could call it special for this year because of the 25 years. The Outsiders' Tourn. can start when the main tourn. reaches its finals, that is around Nov. 15th.
2023-07-31 14:20:03 Hagbard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BwktcMHT80
2023-08-01 13:29:15 Hagbard: https://www.tv2kosmopol.dk/koebenhavn/stort-galleri-saadan-blev-jonas-vingegaard-fejret-i-koebenhavn
2023-08-02 12:27:46 Hagbard: New in gallery: New tafl sets from Vittorio Vuyet! Dimetr sent photos from Bylinnyj Bereg 2023!
2023-08-07 16:35:27 Hagbard: Finished tournaments: Historical Hnefatafl 9x9 (Saami Tablut-w): #1 Draganov and Dimetr, #3 Alex hnefatafl Copenhagen Hnefatafl Bell 11x11: #1 Draganov, #2 Alex hnefatafl, #3 Jrton80 Saami Sahkku 3x15 (Kaafjord): #1 Draganov and Holidayinnes, #3 Potapych and Rosk Saami Daabloe 11x9: #1 Holidayinnes and Jrton80, #3 Brave-frog Sea battle tafl 11x11: #1 Draganov, #2 Potapych, #3 Brave-frog Berserk Hnefatafl 11x11: #1 Draganov, #2 Jrton80, #3 Konrad7890 Daldos 3x14: #1 Holidayinnes, #2 Draganov and Rosk Hex 11x11: #1 Paul7, #2 Holidayinnes, #3 Rosk Historical Hnefatafl 11x11 (Welsh Tawlbwrdd-w): #1 Alex hnefatafl, #2 Draganov, #3 Dimetr Total Hnefatafl 11x11: #1 Draganov, #2 Potapych, #3 Jrton80 Sea battle-204577-w 11x11: #1 Draganov, #2 Potapych, #3 Brave-frog Daldos 3x12: #1 Potapych, #2 Draganov and Floki Frisian Dablo 11x9: #1 Brave-frog, Holidayinnes and Jrton80 Copenhagen T cross 11x11: #1 Draganov, #2 Potapych, #3 Jrton80 Tawlbwrdd Lewis cross-w 11x11: #1 Draganov and Dimetr, #3 Alex hnefatafl Sea battle-1571 9x9: #1 Draganov, #2 Colophonius, #3 Brave-frog Saami Sahkku 3x15 (Kaafjord): #1 Xerxes, #2 Holidayinnes, #3 Rosk Simple Tafl-w 11x11: #1 Draganov and Potapych, #3 Rosk and Themightyglider Copenhagen Lewis cross 11x11: #1 Draganov, #2 Potapych and Rosk
2023-08-08 15:04:08 Hagbard: Just to mention that these players have not registered for the World Tourn.: Abbas Agraphicus, Adam, Agmundr, Altti, Animals, Archibald K., Arevidar, Arne64, Asther-Kane, Bigwurm91, Bogd Khan, Boucher228, branan, Brench, cacreal, casshern, ChaolAibhne, chuck ward, Conanlibrarian, Cromwell, crust, Cyningstan, Ded Fomich, Docbullen, Duhawk93, EilidhAnIorua, epm180, Epoc, fairland, floki, Fraech, garun19, Gungnir, Harry64, Helfrich, herjan, Hnefihunter, Hok, huzsiati, imaxuncut, Irish raven, jarcin, jilles, Juergen, jules, Jurgenson, kAAgEE, KayKyber, Kihtan, Kllimm, konrad7890, L716, Leoak477, Makhiraen, marcin, mihkkal, Mika, mmagari, Mykle, Nath, Nikos1820, Oddur, OdinHimself, Orlo, Patterson, Paul7, Pavel Dusenko, pc.a59xy, pedro, Pie96, Plantagenet, Red-Ron, rideroflight, Rollo, Rook, Rossomaha, Sauron, Schachus, Sebastianmucke, Sigurd, skallatorc, Skye, staticmatic, Steiger, Sybil, Tengrikut, Teondrae, Thanir, thebigfoot, themightyglider, Tonythebook, Toscano, Trygve, tuireann, unhandyandy, Unterwichtel, Volkenpuk, Vonraider, Waegn, Wesley Alves, william the 3rd, Ytreza,
2023-08-09 08:59:09 Hagbard: 42 registerings
2023-08-09 23:25:43 Dimetr: Hello my friends! I posted some my thoughts about Tawlbwrdd variants, in the big forum: http://aagenielsen.dk/hnefataflforum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=25&start=10 I think Tawlbwrdd Lewis cross 11x11 (with throne) - it's the best and most interesting version of historical Tafl. So, It will be great, to include a Lewis cross in the World championship (with Throne). Maybe - instead of Tawlbwrdd Bell, or maybe, even instead of Tablut-W 9*9
2023-08-09 23:27:41 Dimetr: Hagbard! Please, think about it. Maybe, this year, we can use Tawlbwrdd Lewis cross 11x11, for the final battle of historical championship? (It doesn't matter - white first move, or black first move). And maybe next year - we will play Lewis cross, instead of Tawlbwrdd Bell?
2023-08-11 08:13:04 Hagbard: Answered here: http://aagenielsen.dk/hnefataflforum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&p=1755&sid=bde60eaa3a52c88e8e072137edd8e107#p1755
2023-08-11 12:05:14 Dimetr: Hagbard, Ok, Will it be replacement (change) Tawlbwrdd Bell to Tawlbwrdd Lewis cross 11*11, in the second round this year? I think, it's the right choice!
2023-08-11 12:14:27 Hagbard: Yes if no objections, Tawlbwrdd Lewis cross 11x11 from Round 2 and onwards.
2023-08-11 12:37:04 Dimetr: Yes! It's great, thank you! Then, you need to change the text, on the tournament page: http://aagenielsen.dk/wtfturnering2023.php
2023-08-11 13:06:24 Hagbard: True; I wait a couple of days for the objections if any -
2023-08-11 23:09:45 Draganov: I agree with Dimetr that Tawlboard Lewis cross is better than Welsh Tawlboard. However, in my opinion it is important the whites to move first. Based on my game experience, I can say that it is difficult to win with the whites in Lewis cross even if there is a throne. Moreover, I am expecting the players to improve their play with the blacks over the time. So, adding one more benefit for the whites will be good. That's why I think we need a throne and whites moving first.
2023-08-12 23:21:24 Jrton80: why am I getting negative ratings on the timed out games of Jank?
2023-08-13 08:26:54 Hagbard: adjusted
2023-08-15 09:41:42 Hagbard: These players have not registered for the World Tourn.: Abbas Agraphicus, Adam, Agmundr, Altti, Animals, Archibald K., Arevidar, Arne64, Asther-Kane, Bigwurm91, Bogd Khan, Boucher228, branan, Brench, cacreal, casshern, ChaolAibhne, chuck ward, Conanlibrarian, Cromwell, crust, Cyningstan, Ded Fomich, Docbullen, Duhawk93, EilidhAnIorua, epm180, Epoc, fairland, floki, Fraech, garun19, Gungnir, Harry64, Helfrich, herjan, Hnefihunter, Hok, huzsiati, imaxuncut, Irish raven, jarcin, jilles, Juergen, jules, Jurgenson, kAAgEE, KayKyber, Kihtan, Kllimm, konrad7890, L716, Leoak477, Makhiraen, marcin, mihkkal, Mika, mmagari, Mykle, Nath, Nikos1820, Oddur, OdinHimself, Orlo, Patterson, Paul7, Pavel Dusenko, pc.a59xy, pedro, Pie96, Plantagenet, Red-Ron, rideroflight, Rollo, Rook, Rossomaha, Sauron, Schachus, Sebastianmucke, Sigurd, skallatorc, Skye, staticmatic, Steiger, Sybil, Tengrikut, Teondrae, Thanir, thebigfoot, themightyglider, Tonythebook, Toscano, Trygve, tuireann, unhandyandy, Unterwichtel, Volkenpuk, Vonraider, Waegn, Wesley Alves, william the 3rd, Ytreza,
2023-08-15 11:24:22 Ailill: Hello, can I please get an account on the large forum? Thank you!
2023-08-15 13:11:44 Draganov: Welcome, Ailill! We are glad to see you! I am sure you can find a lot of useful information about tafl and a great competition here on this website. We would appreciate it if you introduce yourself here or in the large forum.
2023-08-15 21:55:21 holidayinnes: Habard, I entered the Sea Battle Tounament by mistake, please remove my entry. Please and Thank you
2023-08-15 22:00:19 Hagbard: ok
2023-08-16 19:38:44 Tonythebook: Looking FWD to fun...hoping can ask herjan and docbullen too
2023-08-17 09:19:03 Draganov: It will be good if Herjan and Docbullen joined the championship and try to defend the honour of Formby community.
2023-08-19 16:42:44 xerxes: @Hagbard. Hi Aage. There still seem to be a lot of one-sided games in the Daldos format, I think due to one player not getting a reasonable number of Xs early in the game.
2023-08-19 18:59:35 Colophonius: Yeah, but bad luck is bad luck, I guess. It's part of the experience
2023-08-19 19:33:40 Hagbard: By probability it's not that easy to get an X. The chance to get an X in 1 move is 44%. And in 2: 68% 3: 82% 4: 90% 5: 94% So if 95% is considered to be as good as certain, then it might take 5 moves to be certain to get an X.
2023-08-22 21:01:50 Hagbard: These players have not registered for the World Tourn.: Abbas Agraphicus, Adam, Agmundr, Altti, Animals, Archibald K., Arevidar, Arne64, Asther-Kane, Bigwurm91, Bogd Khan, Boucher228, branan, Brench, cacreal, casshern, ChaolAibhne, chuck ward, Conanlibrarian, Cromwell, crust, Cyningstan, Ded Fomich, Docbullen, Duhawk93, EilidhAnIorua, epm180, Epoc, fairland, floki, Fraech, garun19, Gungnir, Harry64, Helfrich, herjan, Hnefihunter, Hok, huzsiati, imaxuncut, Irish raven, jarcin, jilles, Juergen, jules, Jurgenson, kAAgEE, KayKyber, Kihtan, Kllimm, konrad7890, L716, Leoak477, Makhiraen, marcin, mihkkal, Mika, mmagari, Mykle, Nath, Nikos1820, Oddur, OdinHimself, Orlo, Patterson, Paul7, Pavel Dusenko, pc.a59xy, pedro, Pie96, Plantagenet, Red-Ron, rideroflight, Rollo, Rook, Rossomaha, Sauron, Schachus, Sebastianmucke, Sigurd, skallatorc, Skye, staticmatic, Steiger, Sybil, Tengrikut, Teondrae, Thanir, thebigfoot, themightyglider, Toscano, Trygve, tuireann, unhandyandy, Unterwichtel, Volkenpuk, Vonraider, Waegn, Wesley Alves, william the 3rd, Ytreza
2023-08-24 12:53:44 Hagbard: Umpires for the World Tourn. are found. http://aagenielsen.dk/wtfturnering2023.php
2023-08-24 16:38:53 Hagbard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NU3SxlLyxLY
2023-08-24 20:56:33 Draganov: @Hagbard, could you unlock Tawlbwrdd Lewis diamond to be tested again. Last year, I managed to win with the blacks against some very strong players, so in my opinion, the blacks have chances in that variant.
2023-08-24 21:29:28 Hagbard: unlocked
2023-08-24 21:39:51 Draganov: Thanks, I invented some strong players to test it
2023-08-24 21:41:41 Draganov: I mean invited not invented... My smartphone went crazy
2023-08-27 19:23:12 Hagbard: Danish astronaut arrived to the ISS International Space Station today. His mission is named Huginn (Odin's raven), and he brings with him the silver figure "Odin from Lejre", a bronze fibula also with a raven could be Muninn, and a gold bracteate illustrating Odin travelling with a raven. So Odin and his both ravens are in space now.
2023-08-28 17:27:21 Draganov: @All, I started a topic in the large forum regarding Copenhagen Hnefatafl tactics. You can see my tips there and I hope they will help you to improve your playing skills. http://aagenielsen.dk/hnefataflforum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=154
2023-08-29 08:52:22 Dimetr: Hooray! Casshern joined! And now it will be interesting championship!
2023-08-29 16:18:52 Hagbard: Better setup for Round 1: http://aagenielsen.dk/hnefataflforum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&p=1767#p1767
2023-08-29 21:24:28 Draganov: @Hagbard, I saw that a Sea battle circle 9x9 tournament has started. Could you give us more details about that variant? Seems that the king's ship can only move one square per move.
2023-08-29 21:29:40 Hagbard: I see. If that's so, actually I forgot all about it. I unlocked the game because the balance is +1.24
2023-08-29 22:01:35 Draganov: Well, it is my mistake. I checked in the game archive about Sea Battle circle 7x7 and in it the king moved only one square. While Sea battle circle 9x9 seems absolutely OK and looks interesting. I will join that tournament.
2023-08-30 10:03:34 Draganov: @Hagbard, I played 14 games against some good players (including top players like Dimetr and Потапыч) in Tawlbwrdd Lewis diamond 11x11. I won all of the games and it seems to me that this variant is well-balanced. Although its balance is +2.04 for me it seems that the blacks are better and a battle between two top players, I think the blacks will be the favourite to win. However, the variant is tricky and inexperienced or low-rated players could easily be destroyed in less than 15 moves. So, I think it will be good to have a tournament in this variant too. I don't mean to include it in the world championship but just to test it because it seems interesting and worthy to be played.
2023-08-30 10:11:56 Draganov: I also have a question regarding the maximum rating. It is one of the criterias to receive a GM title. However, in the rating list it is written that I have 2060 rating points. In the separate rating in the All Tafl game section, it is written that my rating is 2045 and when I go to the game archive and search my name in the rating history, it is written that my maximum rating is 2050. Finally in the 'Tafl wall of fame' page, it is written that I have reached the maximum rating of 2046. Could you clarify about that and if it is possible to make the whole numbers to be unified on each page. I don't like to sound like I care much about ratings and points since it is just a number for me, but it is one of the few achievements that I have not accomplished in my Tafl career yet. So, I think it is possible to attack 2100 rating line in order to receive the GM title.
2023-08-30 12:10:26 Hagbard: Measured balance of Tawlbwrdd Lewis diamond 11x11 is right now +1.80 1. Main rating list 2060: through the years adjusted from game to game. 2. Separate ratings, all games 2046: calculated from scratch from all the games archive. 3. Maximum rating 2050: calculated from scratch from all the games archive. 4. Wall of fame 2050: updated manually. 1. used the game balance known at the time of the game. 2. and 3. use the current balances of today on all the games. Not far from 2050 to 2100, though in that end of the scale 50 is a terrible distance ...
2023-08-30 13:57:24 Draganov: Thanks for clarifying it.
2023-09-01 07:38:12 Hagbard: These players have not registered for the World Tourn.: Abbas Agraphicus, Adam, Agmundr, Altti, Animals, Archibald K., Arevidar, Arne64, Asther-Kane, Bigwurm91, Bogd Khan, Boucher228, branan, Brench, chuck ward, Conanlibrarian, Cromwell, crust, Cyningstan, Ded Fomich, Docbullen, Duhawk93, EilidhAnIorua, epm180, Epoc, fairland, Fraech, garun19, Gungnir, Harry64, Helfrich, herjan, Hnefihunter, Hok, huzsiati, imaxuncut, Irish raven, jarcin, jilles, Juergen, jules, Jurgenson, kAAgEE, KayKyber, Kihtan, Kllimm, konrad7890, L716, Leoak477, Makhiraen, marcin, mihkkal, Mika, mmagari, Mykle, Nath, Nikos1820, Oddur, OdinHimself, Orlo, Patterson, Pavel Dusenko, pc.a59xy, pedro, Pie96, Plantagenet, Red-Ron, rideroflight, Rollo, Rook, Rossomaha, Schachus, Sebastianmucke, Sigurd, skallatorc, Skye, staticmatic, Steiger, Tengrikut, Teondrae, Thanir, thebigfoot, themightyglider, Toscano, Trygve, tuireann, unhandyandy, Unterwichtel, Volkenpuk, Vonraider, Waegn, Wesley Alves, william the 3rd, Ytreza
2023-09-01 10:47:42 Hagbard: Preliminary setups shown: http://aagenielsen.dk/wtfturnering2023.php
2023-09-01 18:41:10 Draganov: @Hagbard, I received a message from Alex Hnefatafl in the mobile Hnefatafl app. He asked me to tell you that in his opinion Sea Battle Tafl 11x11 must be played with whites moving first. I also agree with him on that point. I also think Tawlboard Lewis cross must be played with whites first too. The last tournament with black first was with terrible balance. Even with whites moving first, the blacks are better but at least the game has a chance to be playable.
2023-09-02 09:33:47 Hagbard: Sea battle 11x11: Test of Sea battle-w 11x11 started. Tawlboard Lewis cross 11x11: Dimetr is #2 for hist.hnef. World Tourn. last year; we could let Dimetr choose white or black to begin? Round 1 setup, small change: http://aagenielsen.dk/hnefataflforum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&p=1769#p1769
2023-09-02 10:55:51 Hagbard: The Danish astronaut Mogensen continues today from the ISS the Thor project: filming lightning from space. This time filming with 100,000 photos per second. 2015 Mogensen filmed this with a simpler camera: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dY5F_gEexAY - So Thor is also in space now -
2023-09-02 12:19:06 Dimetr: Hagbard! Thanks for trusting me! Draganov and Alex play much better then me, in Tawlbwrdd Lewis Cross. And they opinions that white need first move. But I'm still afraid that white may be too strong. Draganov showed strong beginning for white with first move. Just give me a day - for some analysis our last games
2023-09-02 13:20:31 Draganov: Let's me and Dimetr play 10 fast and unrated games in Lewis cross with black first and see the result. I invited him to 10 games. I will play fast and probably the games will be finished in 1-2 days
2023-09-03 12:51:15 Dimetr: Hagbard, I did a quick analysis our games in Tawlbwrdd Levis Cross -W (white first move). The fact is that: White with first move - can get a big advantage (much better position), in start ot the game. Black has to play very strong in the beginning, to prevent it, and can't make mistakes. But later, if black could blocks the first attack, the space for the king will be less and less, and black will be stronger and stronger. In the middle of the game, it will be the same game (like game with Black's first move). Draganov says that we need white first move, necessarily. Draganov - the strongest player, and he knows, what he's talking about. So let's trust him and make the white first move? But keep in mind - black have to play very carefully in the beginning! Look the last games Tawlbwrdd Levis Cross -W where Draganov quickly won with white, and draw your own conclusions P.S. The question is - does Draganov himself will be able to block White's first dangerous attack, in the game Draganov agains Draganov? or Casshern agains Draganov? Аnd make a game with equal chances in the middle?
2023-09-03 19:36:52 Hagbard: The statistics are Tawlbwrdd Lewis cross 11x11: game balance -1.06 Tawlbwrdd Lewis cross-w 11x11: game balance -1.20 Which is ok for both, so it's up to what you players prefer. I think I can hear that at the moment the arrow points more towards the Tawlbwrdd Lewis cross-w 11x11?
2023-09-03 20:23:10 Dimetr: The statistics should be reversed. White's first move makes him stronger, and the balance in the "W" version should be better then Black's first move. I think it will change during the championship. Anyway, Lewis Tawlbwrdd - "W", will be more sharper and more aggressive, then classic version
2023-09-03 20:57:37 Draganov: I do want to see the opinion of Casshern as he is truly the strongest player. Maybe Hagbard can send him a private message because he hasn't been active recently. CHagbard can you ask him what he thinks about Lewis cross whites or blacks moving first and also regarding Sea battle 11x11?
2023-09-03 21:01:16 Draganov: @ChaolAibhne, Jrton80, Colofonius, Paul7, Tonythebook, Потапыч and Masterluke, your opinion would be also valuable since you are experienced and respected players
2023-09-04 06:32:35 Hagbard: 71 registerings from 33 players: http://aagenielsen.dk/wtfturnering2023.php
2023-09-04 13:02:53 Tonythebook: I tend to agree with @draganov and @dimetr having played a few recently- I think it'd be nice to have the weaker player always get the 1st move in games anyway- we play thta way with new players in Formby until they get confident- I must gte our Nuts Squirrel rules and our castled version of Tawllbrwd to you soon, saw Herjan recently- he may play soon!
2023-09-04 16:41:06 Colophonius: To be honest, it seems that I didn't play Tawlbwrdd Lewis cross yet. So therefore I'd rather like to abstain.
2023-09-05 08:08:05 Hagbard: 10 days till start of World Tourn. On the timing: The x4 timing which will be used, is more convenient for players than the timing used last year. The many timeouts last year will not happen with this one. On the number of games: A strong player has in every round only 4 games (against 2 opponents). A not so strong player has in the first round 8 games (4 opponents). (Race games: everybody has 8 games the first round, and then 4 games per round). On the game lengths: The new timing prevents games to last for months. A game with extremely many moves could perhaps last for about 30 days.
2023-09-05 10:42:41 Colophonius: Hey guys! I just read some of the ruled again and spotted a mistake in the description of the rules for Hist. Hnef. following the link on the championship tournament page. There it says that all pieces except the king are captured by samdwiching them between two enemy pieces. Later it says that the king is captured just like any other piece. It would be nice if somebody could correct that before the championship starts.
2023-09-05 13:10:50 Hagbard: The king has the center rules: captured by 4 and 3 pieces in center.
2023-09-05 21:23:27 Skye: @Hagbard and the rest of the Tafl community, i would like to play in the WCT (Tablut) but it takes to much time for me, all these games (maybe after I retire). I'll stick to individual games for now. Good luck every one.
2023-09-05 22:54:25 Colophonius: Hey Hagbard! There's a problem in my saami sahkku tournament game against Draganov. My last move, move 40, was taken back, I don't know why. Checking the replay you'll see that my last piece should stand on k3. Can you please fix this?
2023-09-06 08:01:37 Hagbard: @Colophonius, I'll have a look at the game tonight. Hint to players who have not yet registered for World Tourn.: You can always try Race Games, this takes very little time, effective thinking time per move is seconds.
2023-09-06 09:00:13 Colophonius: Thanks Hagbard; I also saw my misinterpretation of the rules, you're right.
2023-09-06 19:23:41 Hagbard: Sahkku: moved the white piece.
2023-09-06 22:37:32 Colophonius: @Hagbard Thank you very much! Could you also move Draganovs upper black piece to g3, I forgot to mention that 😅🙈
2023-09-07 07:38:33 Hagbard: Sahkku: moved the black piece.
2023-09-07 20:32:12 Colophonius: Thanks a lot!
2023-09-08 07:58:53 Hagbard: These players have not registered for the World Tourn.: Abbas Agraphicus, Adam, Agmundr, Altti, Animals, Archibald K., Arevidar, Arne64, Asther-Kane, Bigwurm91, Bogd Khan, Boucher228, branan, Brench, chuck ward, Conanlibrarian, Cromwell, crust, Cyningstan, Ded Fomich, Docbullen, Duhawk93, EilidhAnIorua, epm180, Epoc, fairland, Fraech, garun19, Gungnir, Harry64, Helfrich, herjan, Hnefihunter, Hok, huzsiati, imaxuncut, Irish raven, jarcin, Juergen, jules, Jurgenson, kAAgEE, KayKyber, Kihtan, Kllimm, konrad7890, L716, Leoak477, Makhiraen, marcin, mihkkal, Mika, mmagari, Mykle, Nath, Nikos1820, Oddur, OdinHimself, Orlo, Patterson, Pavel Dusenko, pc.a59xy, pedro, Pie96, Plantagenet, Red-Ron, rideroflight, Rollo, Rook, Rossomaha, Schachus, Sebastianmucke, Sigurd, skallatorc, Skye, staticmatic, Steiger, Tengrikut, Teondrae, Thanir, thebigfoot, themightyglider, Toscano, Trygve, tuireann, unhandyandy, Unterwichtel, Volkenpuk, Vonraider, Waegn, Wesley Alves, william the 3rd, Ytreza
2023-09-08 09:26:44 Skye: @Hagbard: is it possible to ad a few more lines to the rules in Tablut-W 9x9. It only says King armed, captured from 2 sides. I always forget it is also King captured from 3 sides next to the throne and King captured from 4 sides if he is on the throne. Would be a great help (at least for me). Thanks
2023-09-09 09:39:16 Hagbard: done
2023-09-09 09:53:14 Skye: I saw it, thanks.
2023-09-09 10:13:14 Hagbard: Hint to players who have not yet registered for World Tourn.: You can always try Race Games, this takes very little time, effective thinking time per move is seconds.
2023-09-09 16:26:20 Hagbard: Improved Race Games setup: http://aagenielsen.dk/wtfturnering2023.php
2023-09-10 10:00:54 Hagbard: 77 registerings from 35 players
2023-09-10 12:42:55 Hagbard: Two World Champions join and two nearly World Champions
2023-09-11 08:09:01 Hagbard: And what do you think about the Sea Tafl 11 for the tourn., should it be Sea battle tafl 11x11 or Sea battle tafl-w 11x11, with black or white to begin ? For the Hist.Hnef. 11, do we settle for the Tawlbwrdd Lewis cross-w 11x11 with white begins ?
2023-09-11 08:36:41 Hagbard: - I understand from the forum posts from Dimetr 09-03/12:51 and 09-03/20:23 that Dimetr goes for the Tawlbwrdd Lewis cross-w 11x11. So Tawlbwrdd Lewis cross-w 11x11 it is.
2023-09-11 09:04:42 Hagbard: Plan: Last year each line of tourn. waited for all lines to be ready for next round. This year, each line will move on to next round as soon as it can. Fx. race games are quick, and the Race Games tourn. will probably be over in a short time.
2023-09-11 12:56:17 Hagbard: Player names are on the setups. The lists change when more players register. http://aagenielsen.dk/wtfturnering2023.php
2023-09-11 15:27:34 Draganov: Regarding Sea battle tafl-w 11x11, we had two test tournaments. In the first one (tournament 588) blacks won 7 times against 5 times for the whites. Moreover, strong players like Alex and me didn't manage to beat each other with the whites color and even didn't come close to win with the whites. So, it seems that even with whites first, the balance is still in favour of the blacks very much. With blacks first it will be absolutely terribly in favour of the blacks making the variant practically unplayable. So, as conclusion, I would say that whites need to move first in Sea battle tafl-w 11x11 to keep at least some chances to win the game.
2023-09-11 15:36:57 Draganov: Regarding Lewis cross, it seems blacks are still better even with whites moving first. In tournament 574 whites won 7 times, blacks won 5. In tournament 579 whites won 9 times, blacks won 11 times. In tournament 587 whites won 3 times, blacks won 3 times. Combining all three tournaments we will have perfect balance of 19:19 black/white wins. So, Lewis cross-w seems to be playable. Moreover, it is more interesting to play in a variant in which the whites have better or equal chances than in a variant in which the blacks are favoured to win.
2023-09-11 15:39:53 Hagbard: Though the tests have not very many games, they seem to indicate, that white does not get extremely strong by moving first. The measured balance is still more to black than the known balance from black moves first. So, it looks like Sea battle tafl-w 11x11 would not be worse than the old version and therefore could be tried.
2023-09-11 15:56:24 Hagbard: ( - and, similar to Hist.Hnef. where I asked #2 last year Dimetr to decide between the two, both playable, versions: here in the Sea line you're #2 last year, both versions seem playable, so you've chosen white begins.)
2023-09-11 23:06:42 Dimetr: Hagbard! Thank you a lot! As for Tawlbwrdd Levis Cross -W: White's first move - it is a good choice. But everyone needs to know - black have to play very carefully in the beginning!!! If white play correctly - black haven't much good answers, in the start (but however- there are some good moves, and we need to find it). So, I think, it will be many mistakes whith black, including among strong players. And after Black's mistake, at the beginning, his position can become bad, quickly. (I know, this may happens in many variations of Tafl, but in Lewis Cross -"W" - it is especially. White immediately get high speed) later, if black could blocks the first attack, the space for the king will be less and less, and black will be stronger and stronger. In the middle of the game - it will be equal game. Sooner or later, we will find the right game for black. But now I advise - Look Draganov's games Tawlbwrdd Levis Cross -"W"- he showed a very strong games for White, in our last tournaments (although, he was strong with blacks, too). Anyway, Lewis Tawlbwrdd - "W"(white first move) - will be more alive, aggressive, and interesting, then classic
2023-09-12 08:18:33 Hagbard: Two days yet to register for the World Tournament 2023! Deadline Sep. 14th 12 o'clock Danish time.
2023-09-12 10:31:45 Tonythebook: Hi folks- I have just started the Race games and find them real fun. We are looking at getting some wooden ones made and there is a US site www.redhenllc.com who DO ship abroad for standard card based sets and other games too, maybe have a look. I have tried to speak to herjan about playing again, he is reluctant. Our own Nuts the squirrel game is a version of 11x11 Tafl with a central 9 square 'reservation' for the red squirrels, the marauding Greys are the usual 4 sets of 6 on edges, they can't go through or into centre- 2 sided capture. King armed or Nuts as in this game. egde wins
2023-09-12 12:35:16 Hagbard: Remember, the Race Games tournament line is easy and quick -
2023-09-12 13:15:06 Hagbard: Suggestion: The Race Games WTF tourn. needs only a x2 timing, the same as is used in the ordinary tournaments. I looked through the ordinary race games tournaments (x2), and timeouts there are very rare. Rest of the WTF tournaments (Cop., Hist. and Sea) use x4 timing.
2023-09-12 13:40:24 Draganov: Let me express my own and sad opinion about Hnefatafl. I think we can call Hnefatafl the greatest game that noone wants to play. Sorry guys, sometimes I don't understand your decissions although I respect them. I come from chess background although I have never been a good chess player but just a local chess amateur winning some village and town competitions. I used to play about 5 chess games per day before finding Hnefatafl. Now, I hardly ever play chess (I continue playing Historical chess variants like Makruk, Courier and Shatranj) since I think it is quite a boring game. However, when I regularly played chess, I played about 5 blitz games per day. In these 5 chess games, I played about 200 moves. It took me about 20 minutes to do that. When I played 130 Hnefatafl games at once last year, I spent almost the same amount of time each day. I play fast, I often think less than a minute on my next move and often think less than 10 seconds on a move relaying more on intuition and experience than on analyses. Recently, Tonythebook and I played a lot of games in plenty of different variants in fast pace. We truly enjoyed the game and had a great time. I might be wrong but is it so difficult to play twice a day during the world championship? If you don't have time to analyze the positions in deep, just play for fun spending 10 seconds on a move. Yes, you will probably lose a lot of games. Yes, you will probably no finish on top but you will still enjoy the game. Moreover, there are experienced players who can be quite dangerous even if they think 10 seconds per move. They just can play on intuition and experience. If you have some kind of illness or lost interest on the game, it is ok to skip the championship. But if you are going to stay on the web site and play couple of games during the championship but not participating in it, I will ask you why you don't join the championship. Winning or losing, it doesn't matter, just play for fun and who knows maybe you can create
2023-09-12 13:41:00 Draganov: Winning or losing, it doesn't matter, just play for fun and who knows maybe you can create some nice games even if you are not playing seriously. Moreover, the championship in the recent years is quite easy on the time. You could have maximum of 4 opponents at once (which means only 8 games in the moment). Playing fast it will take you 5 minutes in the morning and 5 minutes on the evening to participate in the championship. Is this too much for you guys?
2023-09-12 15:15:48 Hagbard: 75 registerings from 37 players
2023-09-12 18:47:41 Skye: Hello Draganov, I've send you a invitation and a few words. Kind Regards Skye
2023-09-12 18:56:59 Hagbard: @Draganov, well said!
2023-09-12 19:23:56 Skye: @Hagbard, if Draganov agrees you can have look at our chat.
2023-09-12 19:24:39 Skye: I'm assuming you can?
2023-09-12 19:35:13 Hagbard: A bit fun to remember a few things from the "beginning". 2011 we were only 8 and some of us played like sh.. (sorry, I'm referring to myself - ). 2008 a tourist won the world championship, who learned the rules half an hour before the tournament!
2023-09-12 19:38:25 Skye: Nice
2023-09-12 19:44:47 Skye: See how it all evolved, it has to be an extremly smart (and lucky) tourist to win the upcoming tournament with no prior knowledge 30 minutes before the start of the first game of the next tournament.
2023-09-12 19:46:42 Skye: I should have gone touristing in 2008, then I might have gotten myself a W
2023-09-12 21:31:21 Draganov: Indeed, the game has evolved over the years. We can see similar evolution in chess. In the 16th century, the greatest player was Ruy Lopez, whose play strength is comparable to the nowadays amateurs who are playing in the parks. I think nowadays we have some really strong tafl players like Cacreal, Odinhimself, Holidayinnes, Alex Hnefatafl, me and of course the strongest player Casshern. I would say that these players are understanding the principles of the game and are able to think 3-5 moves ahead. For example in some of the games between me and Casshern as well as me and Alex, we all knew what will be the position after 5 moves and fought for reaching a certain position. In some of these high-quality games the players made quite strategic moves whose impact was seen after 10 moves. It is difficult to see such depth in the games from the old games where the players played too obviously attacking the corners. However, I would like to open an interesting question. In my opinion Crust, Nath and Schachus were so much ahead of their time and outplayed the competition 10 years ago but overall the quality of their games is lower compared to the top players nowadays. And here is the question, how much stronger these great players would become if they faced stronger competition? Imagine if Casshern and Schachus played 100 games between each other having the opportunity to explore the game together.
2023-09-12 21:49:06 Draganov: For example, in chess we have hundreds of games between the top players. Kasparov and Karpov played about 200 official games between each other without counting the casual games. In the age of internet, the top chess players are playing even more. If we look at Hnefatafl, we will see that top players played few games between each other. We don't have more than 10 games between Schachus and Nath as well as Plantagenet and Casshern. This inactivity prevents players from improving. How good a player will be if he plays only against players 2-3 levels lower than him? I think in the future we need to find a way to popularize Hnefatafl and bring some strong players to it. For example, bringing some chess players. I think it is possible to attract strong chess players (at least IM or even GM level). For example Adam played Tafl against the chess GM Christensen. Some top GMs like playing chess variants (Nakamura played Shatranj). So, even they could be attracted if Hnefatafl is presented in a better way and becomes more popular. Secondly, we need to find a way to have more games between top players.
2023-09-12 22:37:45 Skye: The question is, not only to attracked top players (might be good for attracting more players over all) but how to get Tafl in the mainstream spotlight, and make it more popular. For the rest I agree, pressure makes diamonds and for that you need opponents similar to your strenght (regardless off your ranking), and a lot of games.
2023-09-12 23:25:41 Skye: Furthermore: chess is chess 1 game, 1 set of rules. Tafl has multiple games (even on same sized boards) with different rules. I don't say we should but 1 7x7, 1 9x9, 1 11x11 would make it (maybe) easier to comprihend / understand / master / enjoy, than the "enormous" amount of games and rules available right now? Just a tought.
2023-09-12 23:41:08 Skye: / sell should be added after enjoy
2023-09-13 07:09:18 Hagbard: Deadline tomorrow Sep. 14th 12 o'clock Danish time. NB! The games are started tomorrow 14th some time after 18 o'clock Danish time!
2023-09-13 14:46:12 Hagbard: Just to remind again the 91 players on the not-on-the-list list of the race games ...
2023-09-13 17:52:28 Hagbard: https://www.dr.dk/nyheder/vejret/nordlys-kunne-ses-fra-danmark-i-nat
2023-09-13 23:03:25 Colophonius: I agree with Skye.
2023-09-14 05:54:25 Hagbard: Deadline in a few hours today Sep. 14th 12 o'clock Danish time.
2023-09-14 06:31:32 Hagbard: 81 registerings from 39 players
2023-09-14 12:40:20 Hagbard: The setup is ready. Games start today after 18 o'clock Danish time: http://aagenielsen.dk/wtfturnering2023.php
2023-09-14 14:47:00 Draganov: Good luck to all tafl players! Let's enjoy the games and may the best player wins!
2023-09-14 18:29:46 Hagbard: 260 games. May Loki give you laughter as you go!
2023-09-14 18:33:20 Hagbard: (Along the way I might write some informal comments, which are written only as an outside spectator. The umpires have the final say. To show that it's an informal comment, its marked with parantheses) (First move: OdinHimself)
2023-09-14 21:16:07 Hagbard: (First finished game: Tonythebook / Потапыч)
2023-09-15 14:47:25 Hagbard: (Altta, first to finish all games: Hagbard. Five minutes later: Tonythebook.) (Altta: Hagbard moves on)
2023-09-15 15:26:34 Hagbard: (Altta: Tonythebook exits)
2023-09-15 16:09:36 Draganov: @hagbard, is it possible to have some visibility of the tournament with the standings and the results like in the previous years. I think it will be good to see information about wins and losses on a single page.
2023-09-15 16:22:27 Hagbard: But it's there. On http://aagenielsen.dk/wtfturnering2023.php choose "Countings" and you get: http://aagenielsen.dk/wtfturnering2023_tael.php
2023-09-15 16:45:54 Draganov: Thanks! However, it is not visible when scrolling down on the tournament page. On clicking on 'Countings' it navigates to a new page. It is not a problem to be on separate page but would it be possible to have the finished games mentioned like the previous years. For example Player A - Player B, loss 0-0.5 (white won) (Total loss Player A 0, Player B 0.5) and when someone has 4 losses, to be marked in red. I think it was a nice and very visually appealing like last year.
2023-09-15 16:52:30 Hagbard: Yeh I remember that page. I think the details list was endlessly long - On the new page you have all the sums of losses listed below the boards.
2023-09-16 18:09:47 Hagbard: (Altta: Draganov moves on)
2023-09-16 18:11:50 Hagbard: Please BEWARE: please make a move in the tourn. games, if there are any which are not started yet! Or else they time out tomorrow 18 o'clock Danish time.
2023-09-16 20:03:47 ChaolAibhne: @Hagbard It appears that the tournament started a day early? That may have caught out some people who have been away from the game for a while (such as myself), and were surprised when they came back on 15 September and found that a day had already come off their time.
2023-09-16 20:21:01 Hagbard: Yes not a day but only 6 hours. So everything was ready and running by Sep. 15th 00 o'clock midnight. But the few hours before are more convenient for working since it's started manually. And also experience shows that the hours 18-24 are always the most active hours with both Europeans and Americans present. So 18 o'clock is a good place to start.
2023-09-16 21:07:33 Hagbard: (Altta: Holidayinnes moves on) (Vinland: Hagbard moves on) (Tunsberg: Hagbard moves on)
2023-09-16 21:12:57 Hagbard: (Altta: Potapych exits)
2023-09-16 21:59:20 Draganov: I think we need to wait little bit more to see if some of the players will timeout. It seems most of the players started playing and made at least 1 move. Sometimes it is more difficult to play during the weekends since many people are focusing on their families. My suggestion is to leave the games that seems to be decided by time off just to time off. It will happen after couple of days.
2023-09-16 22:10:52 Hagbard: Well there is a problem with a.o. Sauron in the Hist.Hnef. He has several games with 0 moves which will time out tomorrow at 18 o'clock.
2023-09-17 09:03:29 Hagbard: https://www.tv2east.dk/slagelse/vikingernes-imponerende-borg-laa-gemt-i-aarhundreder-nu-kan-den-blive-verdenskendt
2023-09-17 20:45:43 Draganov: If someone wants to try a new Sea battle variant called Sea battle T circle 11x11, I will be more than happy to play against. It seems to be a very interesting variant. So, if someone wants to give it a try, he can join the tournament. Hagbard, could you please extend the expiration time of this tournament because maybe someone will join it next week?
2023-09-17 22:12:41 Hagbard: @Docbullen, please beware; a number of games are about to time out before tomorrow noon.
2023-09-18 09:02:55 Ailill: How do timeouts after 0/1 moves work in the tournament? Do they count as a draw or a win for the non-timed out player (or something else)? I assume they do not affect rating?
2023-09-18 12:10:55 Hagbard: done
2023-09-18 12:19:29 Hagbard: If a player doesn't show up at all, other matches are started instead. Otherwise a timeout is a loss. If a game is only a couple of moves, it's not rated.
2023-09-18 12:32:05 Hagbard: https://www.tv2east.dk/slagelse/trelleborg-optaget-paa-verdensarvsliste-jeg-er-fuldstaendig-glad-og-lykkelig
2023-09-18 14:55:45 Colophonius: Dear other umpires, a quick question: My sea battle game against Paul7, me playing white and him playing black, is it a draw? None of us can win, I guess
2023-09-18 15:02:19 MasterLuke: @Hagbard: what does the light bulb mean, next to my name on the rating list?
2023-09-18 15:31:22 Hagbard: It means "very creative"!
2023-09-18 18:01:52 sqAree: bruh how am I already on timeout after 3 days
2023-09-18 18:02:50 sqAree: The format for the championship on this site is ridiculous considering it's turn-based. It's been said for years, and all that ever happens is that we get even less time..
2023-09-18 18:03:36 sqAree: well it's your loss, fewer people participating (including me) and tafl is slowly dying (cough cough we know why)
2023-09-18 19:01:09 Hagbard: Sqaree, I'm very sorry about that. I would've given a big warning here in the chat, but when I discovered it this morning it had already happened.
2023-09-18 19:04:13 Hagbard: Docbullen, please beware! Games are about to time out in four hours.
2023-09-18 19:18:01 sqAree: Even with a warning it was doomed ; I was away travelling for a few days.
2023-09-18 20:05:53 Draganov: I think we have a problem with the timing. However, I still can't offer a working solution. What I personally think is that because some players timed out, others have huge advantage. This is especially true for the race games where if there are timeouts or inactive players, others who benefited from that, will become huge favorites to win the championship. One of the solution is to add additional games to the benefited players but this is also bad since it is not their fault that their opponents timed out or never showed off. The whole championship could be compromised due to timeouts and inactive players. We need to find a working solution for this problem.
2023-09-18 20:13:44 Draganov: I suggested that a newcomers need to play at least one game in order to participate in the championship. I think it works well since this restriction prevented couple of players who has not been active to participate. Without this rule, we would have at least 10 no show offs more. However, I have a proposal for the next year championship. We can keep the rule for minimum 1 game to be able to take part in the championship. Secondly, I propose all of the newcomers (players with less than 10 games) plus players who tend to timeouts often to be grouped in a separate stream or group and to play against each other. The winner of them could join the rest of the players in the second round.
2023-09-18 20:25:34 Draganov: Regarding the case of Sqaree, I have mixed feelings. First of all, it is really disappointing for him as well as for the whole championship to have one of the top players eliminated in such a way. On the other hand, he, Luizz and in general most of the German players tend to have problems with the game timing. I don't know why German players are struggling with the time but this is one of my observations. As a joke, I could say that the Bulgarians and people from Eastern Europe are generally poor because they play silly games, while Germany prospers because the Germans don't play games but work hard. It's a joke, but who knows it might be true to a certain extent. Well, I personally think that the time buffer must be 6 days as it is now, but it must mean 6 days. So, a player times out only when his whole time buffer is over. No timeouts before day 6. In my opinion, the games of Sqaree must be restored with the time buffer of 3 days left.
2023-09-18 21:15:34 Hagbard: 3 players were not allowed to the tournament because they had 0 games. 3 players were entered but did not show up. And then there's the most unfortunate case with sqAree, who timed out by accident. Even more unfortunate since sqAree is in the top seven at last year's tournament. But otherwise the tournament is not disturbed: all players have 2, 3 and 4 opponents just as before, and all race players have four opponents as before.
2023-09-18 22:15:24 ekve2: regarding the question by @Colophonius, if there are such positions ending in a draw I would love to hear more. I'm not sure if I understood the perpetual repetition rules correctly, but to me it looks like black should be usually able to force a win by perpetual repetition unless white king can escape? rules page does not have exact definition but if you google 'hnefatafl perpetual repetition' other pages say the aggressive player i.e. white king trying to get past black pieces must find another move or lose
2023-09-18 22:19:04 Ailill: What exactly are the timeouts intended to achieve? Do they just ensure that games don't drag on forever? In that case I think there is probably scope to make them longer for the "main" tournaments and maybe have "speed" tournaments where everyone knows that you need to be quite active. If a tournament goes on for a few months I don't think anyone would be harmed that much. Maybe I'm missing a stronger reason why we need them though. I guess if tournaments drag on for a long time people might forget about them - that could be mitigated by an email notification when a new game starts.
2023-09-18 23:09:28 Hagbard: (Altta: Floki exits. Paul7 exits.)
2023-09-18 23:47:00 sqAree: I'll get over it, there'll be another championship. ^^ But I still personally think we should have one day to do our moves at all times.
2023-09-19 12:15:51 cacreal: Regarding Copenhagen - maybe there could be a quicker version of a tournament next year or a live online event. This would be a lot of fun. Hagbard and I completed our games at the championship and it was the most fun I had playing tafl online. A few years ago there was an experiment with an hour game clock and Hagbard and I had a great battle. In my games with Sqaree - he is a formidable opponent but has timed out in past games also. Definitely he only played one move and did not play for a long time in the current set of games. There is a move email feature that is also available or it was in the past. The pieces come alive when you play in 30 to 60 minutes. I have introduced many to this game and you can play multiple in person games in a hour. Beginner to FM. Personally I decided to play in the tournament after engaging in an excellent battle with Floki that lasted a maximum of 48 hours and we split the games . A tournament with less than 50 players should not require a month to complete a round. I would be happy to match up with any top players for games that could be completed in an hour. LA time or Bulgarian time. And I also respect too players want to play once a day - but I prefer to enjoy a beer and have a few battles. Historically I am sure this was a festival / evening game. Your opponent may be Valhalla the next day. Wishing everyone good battles.
2023-09-19 13:06:12 Draganov: I played a lot of fast games with Tonythebook and we both enjoyed them. During our games, we discussed the possibility to play some games live with shared screens on Zoom. Maybe, we can have such a test tournament in which we join a Zoom room, switch the camera on, chat, drink mead and use this website to make the moves. I am open to anyone who wants to play against me over Zoom.
2023-09-19 13:31:38 Colophonius: @ ekve2 The game didn't end in a draw, in fact I lost.
2023-09-19 13:33:44 xerxes: Timeouts are always unfortunate, especially in this case, but there has to be a time limit - otherwise why bother finishing a game you are going to lose ? So, the question is how long should the time limit be ? My personal view is 6 days is too long, but I tend to be a fast player (perhaps that is where I go wrong !). If anyone enters a tournament they have an obligation to the other players to understand the commitment required and the time limits in place.
2023-09-19 14:15:54 Hagbard: "I prefer to enjoy a beer and have a few battles" - I like the attitude! To mention what I've a mixed experience with: 2010-2011 everything here was live. It was very fun; every evening we would start a couple of games and stay at the screen often for an hour. Broadly speaking we were just three, very enthusiastic players and some more random passers-by. England, Norway, Denmark, no time zone problem. Only time control was: every move timed out after five minutes. However, it was too hard requirements for less enthusiastic players. A wonder how an "Instant Mode" could work now. A mode with parameters 5 minutes per move and time buffer 15 minutes.
2023-09-19 16:14:32 Colophonius: Shorter time formats and live games would be cool! 😎
2023-09-19 16:44:10 Draganov: The only problem is how to handle the difference in time zones. We have active players from Oceania (New Zeland and Australia), America and Europe. We also need to think about the situation in which players are at work. Sometimes the working hours are the best time to play games but most of the time it is very difficult to play during work hours. I have a proposal to add two time buffers. One is the general time buffer for the whole game. It could be 2 or 4 days like it is now. The second time buffer starts immediately after the player opens the page and see the position for the first time and it is his turn. Then, the player has only 5 or 10 minutes to make a move. I think it will fasten the games considerably. No time to setup a physical board and make long-time analysis. No time for consulting with someone else or use engines (nowadays there is still no engines for tafl but who knows what will be the situation in the near future). We can test this solution if it is possible to be implemented. @Hagbard, could you clarify if you can add a second time buffer (let's call it move buffer) which starts after the player who has to play, opens the page for the first time?
2023-09-19 18:28:38 Hagbard: There is a simpler solution: The two players agree to play it quick ...
2023-09-19 20:40:29 Draganov: Yes but sometimes it is difficult to play 10-20 moves in a row. With my solution we will respect players availability and eliminate the long analysis. It will feel like we play on the board and at the same time we will not need to stay 30 minutes or 1 hour in front of the computer or smartphone to finish the game. For example, I often play while my children and I are outside and they are playing. However, I play 2-3 moves using my smartphone and then keep an eye on them or move to another place with them. I can't focus on the game for 10-30 minutes without interruption. And this is my case although I am one of the fastest players. I am sure the other players will have their own reasons to play slowly. With move buffer of 5 minutes, we can simulate playing over the board without the need to stay and play the whole game at once.
2023-09-19 20:46:42 Hagbard: I experimented with it and found out that it is a complicated thing to make. My idea is also complicated to make. When Cacreal and I did the Copenhagen games, we just played them quick.
2023-09-19 23:28:42 Hagbard: (Vinland: Tonythebook exits Tunsberg: Tonythebook exits Altta: Alex Hnefatafl exits)
2023-09-20 08:37:01 Hagbard: @Floki, please beware, some games are about to time out in 13 hours.
2023-09-20 15:30:18 Hagbard: @Draganov, please beware. A grand game is about to time out tomorrow at 14 o'clock
2023-09-20 16:25:12 Hagbard: info: The aliases Wigla.... are students in an American University class learning Scandinavian culture right now. They mostly play only against each other.
2023-09-20 20:47:39 Hagbard: (Altta: Chaolaibhne exits.)
2023-09-20 21:43:16 Hagbard: @Sauron, please beware! Games are about to time out tomorrow evening.
2023-09-20 22:20:26 Hagbard: (Altta: Cacreal moves on.)
2023-09-20 23:27:14 Hagbard: (Holmgarthr: Colophonius exits.)
2023-09-20 23:53:06 Hagbard: (Half of the Round 1 games are finished. 130 games left.)
2023-09-21 08:52:44 Hagbard: https://www.tv2east.dk/slagelse/ville-bygge-motorcykelbane-men-fandt-1000-aar-gammel-hemmelighed
2023-09-21 09:07:49 Hagbard: @Sauron, please beware! Games are about to time out this evening!
2023-09-21 15:25:00 Hagbard: @Sauron, please beware! Games are about to time out in a few hours!!
2023-09-21 17:32:13 Hagbard: (Tunsberg: Colophonius moves on.)
2023-09-21 18:43:15 Hagbard: (Altta: Colophonius moves on.)
2023-09-21 19:40:54 Colophonius: @ Hagbard: Reading Michael Chrichton's "Eaters of the dead" I found it quite remarkable, that the entrance doors of the Trelleborg-houses seem to have been built so low, that any intruder would have had to bow down so deep, that he easily could have been beheaded by only one person waiting inside. Really clever!
2023-09-21 19:47:20 Hagbard: Yes and it was already old tradition. All Iron Age houses are thought to be built that way; this is Iron Age house reconstructions in Lejre: http://aagenielsen.dk/lejre/lejre3_640.jpg
2023-09-21 21:22:17 Hagbard: (First to finish all Round 1: Colophonius)
2023-09-22 06:44:36 Hagbard: (Vinland: Cacreal moves on. Tunsberg: Alex Hnefatafl moves on. Altta: Xerxes moves on.)
2023-09-22 07:35:55 Hagbard: (Altta; Rosk moves on. Docbullen exits.)
2023-09-22 11:14:53 Hagbard: (Holmgarthr: Brave-frog moves on.)
2023-09-22 15:15:14 Hagbard: (Holmgarthr: Chaolaibhne moves on. Hagbard exits.)
2023-09-22 15:44:33 Hagbard: @Docbullen, please beware! Games are about to time out this evening!
2023-09-22 17:44:32 Hagbard: (Holmgarthr: Dimetr moves on.)
2023-09-22 19:04:49 Hagbard: (Holmgarthr: Sauron exits. Tunsberg: Sauron exits.)
2023-09-22 21:51:05 Hagbard: @Docbullen, please beware; a game is about to time out at 5 o'clock tomorrow morning UK-time.
2023-09-22 21:56:00 Hagbard: (Tunsberg: Chaolaibhne moves on. Paul7 moves on.)
2023-09-22 23:27:43 Hagbard: (Holmgarthr: Paul7 moves on.)
2023-09-23 03:13:05 Jrton80: Given certain dramatic events in a certain area of the world, timeouts for Brave-frog really should be suspended. I am getting tired of winning by default when he is truly busy elsewhere. There really is a difference between getting distracted by life, and being unable to turn on the phone due to the tactical situation.
2023-09-23 03:16:48 Jrton80: AND if you want to make that retroactive, I am fine with that. Life in the trenches is bad enough as it is.
2023-09-23 07:06:32 Hagbard: (Holmgarthr: Alex Hnefatafl exits.)
2023-09-23 07:13:07 Hagbard: @Docbullen, please beware; games are about to time out from 13 o'clock UK-time.
2023-09-23 07:22:44 Hagbard: You sure are right! But Brave-frog is doing fine in the World Tourn.; no game has timed out and also no game now is very near to time out.
2023-09-23 17:41:47 Hagbard: New in gallery: photo series from Mikkel Berg-Nordlie!
2023-09-23 19:30:35 Hagbard: NB!!! The "!" next to a timeout warning is set when the available time from one move to the next has fallen below 10 hours. The time available will continue to fall until it's only 2 hours. In this phase the "flag will soon fall", because a timeout will happen some night soon while a player is asleep.
2023-09-24 07:46:21 Hagbard: (Altta: Jilles exits.)
2023-09-24 07:52:17 Hagbard: @Docbullen, please beware; games time out in a few hours.
2023-09-24 08:10:05 rosk: A crazy idea came to mind. And what if we make a variant of the game for Hnefatafl with the return of the King to the throne? That is, the game begins with the King at the edge, who, with his supporters, must regain the throne. Or maybe it should be a game with two Kings? Is such a game mechanics possible?
2023-09-24 08:25:29 Hagbard: ATTENTION please! Race games Round 2 Sahkku setup is ready: http://aagenielsen.dk/wtfturnering2023.php Round 2 starts tomorrow 25th at 18 o'clock Danish time!
2023-09-24 20:01:31 Hagbard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLzlegtzs-M
2023-09-24 20:12:57 Hagbard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KynmacpbB74
2023-09-24 21:42:35 Dimetr: Hagbard, Maybe it will be better to make randomly start setup list (regardless of player rating), for the World Champ, next year? Now, it's not good, that strong players fight against each other, right in the first round, and take points from each other. It's very sad, that Alex Hnefatafl exit from the Historical tournament (and I was one of the reasons for this). His games are always strong, interesting and unusial, and we can learn how to play Tafl, from his games. But his tournament position, between Casshern and me, was too difficult, and he left. So, we won't be able to see his playing in Lewis Cross 11*11, at this champ, unfortunately. So, maybe random start setup, will be better - strong players will meet in the final
2023-09-24 21:51:25 Hagbard: (Vinland: Gingie339 exits. Sauron exits.)
2023-09-24 21:55:01 Hagbard: @Docbullen, please beware; games are about to time out.
2023-09-24 22:01:22 Hagbard: True, unfortunate to miss Alex Hnefatafl in the Hist.Hnef. Round 2. However, the top half of players have a very big chance of moving on, since they only have to win a single game out of four.
2023-09-24 22:12:27 Hagbard: - and if we do the Beat The Winners like last year, he'll have the chance to do just that; AlHn was #1 in the BTW last year.
2023-09-24 22:55:06 Hagbard: (Altta: Jrton80 moves on. Brave-frog exits. Altta Round 1 finished.)
2023-09-25 17:17:18 Draganov: Regarding the elimination of Alex, I think it proves how close in strenght are the top players. I think there are at least 5 players who can beat anyone.
2023-09-25 18:43:36 Hagbard: (First Round 2 game finished: Hagbard / Cacreal. One minute later: Draganov / Cacreal.)
2023-09-26 07:25:52 Hagbard: (Holmgarthr: Potapych moves on.)
2023-09-26 11:20:36 Hagbard: @Docbullen, please beware; games time out in a few hours.
2023-09-26 11:38:38 Hagbard: - By the way, I forgot to say: Welcome to the University class of foreign cultures, we're always happy to have you here!
2023-09-26 14:21:48 Hagbard: (Tunsberg: Potapych moves on. Ailill moves on.)
2023-09-26 14:22:37 Hagbard: https://www.tv2east.dk/sjaelland-og-oeerne/kraftigt-nordlys-lyste-nattehimlen-op-snart-kan-du-se-det-igen
2023-09-26 16:20:01 Hagbard: If the umpire doesn't disagree, Tunsberg Round 2 setup is ready: http://aagenielsen.dk/wtfturnering2023.php Awaiting a couple of top player Round 1 games.
2023-09-26 16:33:01 Colophonius: Hagbard, as sea battle umpire I agree, round 2 can begin. Brave-frog and Docbullen already are out, Casshern and Draganov move on to round 2, no matter what happens in their running match.
2023-09-26 16:38:16 Hagbard: thank you!
2023-09-26 16:38:20 Draganov: @Hagbard, it seems that not many players will be eliminated after round 1. So, it is very likely that we are going to have R3 in each tournament (except maybe in the Race tournament). I propose to start discussing the variants for the potential R3. For Historical Hnefatafl we have Welsh Tawlbwrdd Bell 11x11-w which is well-tested. The other options are to go to the next bigger board (13x13) and play Historical Hnefatafl 13x13 or Historical Hnefatafl 13x13 (modif. Parlett 2). In the first case we are sticking to something we have already experienced before, while in the second case we are going to experience battles on different board sizes (9x9 in R1, 11x11 in R2 and 13x13 in R3). For me both options seem to be intriguing. So, I will be glad if other players express their opinions. For the Sea Battle tournament we have Sea battle-204577-w 11x11 (the variant that we played last year) and another options could be Sea battle tafl 13x13 (Nielsen) or Sea battle tafl 13x13 if we want to go to a bigger board battle. The circle variants are also interesting but not tested enough. There is one more Sea battle variant for 9x9 which seems well-balanced Sea battle-1571 9x9 if we want to play different variant and not to repeat already played variants from previous rounds. Let's have a discussion and see what other players think.
2023-09-26 17:03:44 Hagbard: Interesting idea. My first thought is, better 11x11 than larger boards, for the sake of the players' patience and avoiding very long games.
2023-09-26 17:13:25 Hagbard: - and second thought: better 11x11 than smaller boards, because it's a Final and important battles.
2023-09-26 17:35:08 Hagbard: @Docbullen, please beware; important games time out in a few hours.
2023-09-27 07:55:31 casshern: @Hagbard: I am having difficulty posting in the forum.
2023-09-27 07:57:29 Dimetr: About Round 3 in the Historical part of the championship: I already wrote, that I think, Welsh Tawlbwrdd-w (Bell) - it's boring. but I will repeat my post if you don’t mind. I think it is better to continue playing the Lewis Cross 11*11, in the final. White or Black first move, don't matter. So, I will repeat my post, but I am also ready to play any version of 11*11. About Welsh Tawlbwrdd-w (Bell): The real balance of the game is strongly in favor of black. I think, in some "conditional" game without mistakes, black in Bell reconstruction, will be much better. But the problem is not only in the balance. The game should be interesting. Tawlbwrdd Bell, maybe not bad, but it's not interesting. Reason of that: Bell reconstruction - it's like a hard puzzle. The battle takes place in a very limited space. It's like playing long and closed position in chess - too difficult, and too boring. Besides, opening in Bell reconstruction is too standardized. In the all Tafl variants, blacks vikings x2 more than whites, and It is clear, that the balance depends on King's activity (which costs half of the army when he has a space on the desk, and costs nothing when he doesn't). In Bell reconstruction -white must do the almost impossible things, to open space for the king, it's not sow easy. I'm realised what I'm still don't know how to play Tawlbwrdd Bell, and maybe nobody know, except Casshern, Draganov, and Alex Hnefatafl. As for Tawlbwrdd Lewis cross 11x11 (with throne) -I think it's the best and most interesting version of historical Tafl. The starting position makes the game very variable, players can choose from many variations. White has a lot of space for development, but Black also has many opportunities for a good game.
2023-09-27 08:03:03 casshern: Apparently I can post. But am I restricted some how? I cannot post a long post like other members.
2023-09-27 08:04:31 Hagbard: @Casshern, strange, you're the second to say that today. A few seconds ago I posted a test in the large forum, and it worked for me.
2023-09-27 08:08:36 casshern: @Hagbard: To clarify, I mean in this forum. The small forum.
2023-09-27 08:09:48 casshern: It is strange, because obviously I can post. Just not long post.
2023-09-27 08:10:45 Hagbard: - and nothing is changed here in the chat forum. As usual, the program should cut a very long post and show the beginning.
2023-09-27 08:19:37 Hagbard: start testtesttest test testtest testtesttesttesttesttest testtesttest test testtesttesttesttest test testtest testtesttesttesttesttest testtesttest test testtest testtesttest test testtest testtesttesttesttesttest testtesttest test testtest testtesttest test testtest testtesttesttesttesttest testtesttest test testtesttesttesttest test testtest testtesttesttesttesttest testtesttest test testtest testtesttest test testtest testtesttesttesttesttest testtesttest test testtest testtesttest test testtest testtesttesttesttesttest testtesttest test testtesttesttesttest test testtest testtesttesttesttesttest testtesttest test testtest testtesttest test testtest testtesttesttesttesttest testtesttest test testtest testtesttest test testtest testtesttesttesttesttest testtesttest test testtesttesttesttest test testtest testtesttesttesttesttest testtesttest test testtest testtesttest test testtest testtesttesttesttesttest testtesttest test testtest testtesttest test testtest testtesttesttesttesttest testtesttest test testtesttesttesttest test testtest testtesttesttesttesttest testtesttest test testtest testtesttest test testtest testtesttesttesttesttest testtesttest test testtest testtesttest test testtest testtesttesttesttesttest testtesttest test testtesttesttesttest test testtest testtesttesttesttesttest testtesttest test testtest testtesttest test testtest testtesttesttesttesttest testtesttest test testtest testtesttest test testtest testtesttesttesttesttest testtesttest test testtesttesttesttest test testtest testtesttesttesttesttest testtesttest test testtest testtesttest test testtest testtesttesttesttesttest testtesttest test testtest testtesttest test testtest testtesttesttesttesttest testtesttest test testtesttesttesttest test testtest testtesttesttesttesttest testtesttest test testtest testtesttest test testtest testtesttesttesttesttest testtesttest test testtest testtesttest test testtest testtesttesttesttesttest testtesttest test testtesttesttesttest test te
2023-09-27 08:21:50 casshern: Honestly, my post is not that long. Shorter than Draganov, Dimetr, and your post. Well, I will keep trying to post.
2023-09-27 08:26:17 Hagbard: - and the cutting of very long posts is not to bother any users, it's only a measure against a theoretical attack of a hacker with a megafile to overwhelm the software.
2023-09-27 08:28:19 casshern: @Dimetr: Regarding the first round exits of Alex this year and Odin last year. It seems like a circular discussion at this point. And this post will probably bring a lengthy response from Draganov. A can of worms I was hoping not to open this year. But here we go. I think this tournament structure is not good. As you say, it is very tough on the higher ranked players. And easier on the lower ranked players. Like last year when we meet in the third round of HH, the strongest opponent you had played to that point was me. And you did well to split a pair of games with me. However, my path was much more difficult. Having played you, Draganov, Jilles, and Alex twice. I went into the third round needing to win both games, while another split and your would have won. To me, it seem like round robin is the best format. Everyone plays an equal amount of games against the same opponents. And every game counts.
2023-09-27 08:29:26 casshern: Okay that worked
2023-09-27 08:35:05 casshern: But, I am still having trouble with my other response. It is literally just 2 paragraphs. Nothing inappropriate obviously.
2023-09-27 08:39:28 casshern: I still stick by my suggestion from last year. If players meet in round 3, who previously played against each other in one variant. Then they should play the other variant.
2023-09-27 08:41:58 casshern: I think we know what the best 9x9 SB and HH variants are. I think we should stick to the best know balanced/playable 11x11 variant(s). If there is only one, then stick to that one. If there are more than one then I think it would be fine to change
2023-09-27 08:44:05 casshern: I think larger boards are not good for competition.
2023-09-27 08:45:09 casshern: In my experience, the boards that draw out the best play are 9x9 and 11x11. I am not a fan of using so many different variants. I think we should use the most playable and balanced variant(s). Also, It is not good to experiment different variants during the tournament. Last year we had a SB 11x11 that favored black too much.
2023-09-27 08:47:31 casshern: I think that is everything that I wanted to say.
2023-09-27 08:48:36 casshern: Curious, I am still getting blocked. Even with short posts.
2023-09-27 08:50:10 casshern: @Hagbard: Perhaps it is because I am trying to use an apostrophe?
2023-09-27 08:52:23 casshern: I think that is it. Wow, it really does not let me use the apostrophe when I am posting.
2023-09-27 08:53:07 casshern: Curious, because other members can.
2023-09-27 08:55:13 casshern: @All: Sorry for so many post. I hope you are as amused at my short comings as I am.
2023-09-27 08:55:30 Draganov: I agree with Casshern. The idea to play in R3 a variant that the finalists didn't play in the previous rounds sounds good to me. However, what if there are more than 2 players in round 3 and they have already played both variants? In HH we have more playable variants than in Sea Battle. In HH we have Tablut and Tawlbwrdd Lewis cross and Tawlbwrdd Bell (which is indeed boring but it is a well-known and tested). For me sounds logical to play the variant that the two finalists didn't play against each other in the previous rounds and if there are more than 2 players in R3 to play Tawlbwrdd Bell. For Sea Batlle, I think we are using the optimal two variants for R1 and R2. Let's use the same logic and if there are 2 players in R3 they will play the variant they didn't play against each other. In case of more players, we need to choose another Sea Battle variant, which I can't propose now since they are all bad or not well-tested.
2023-09-27 08:56:46 Hagbard: That happened to me, too, some time ago. I had a special character in a post and had to remove the character before the post was accepted.
2023-09-27 08:57:32 Hagbard: @casshern, the post was not first for me, I guess, but I have a couple of comments. Last year, some details in the format was a challenge for the players. Things happened which were unfortunate. Therefore, after the tournament, I did a lengthy calculation of all players' performance (sent to the umpires), and the calculation showed that, despite last year's format's imperfection, the right players won. This year is much different. The unfortunate details of last year are not there. I analyzed how the format will work on the whole scale of players here: http://aagenielsen.dk/diagonalformat_comments.php The curves show that true, the Round 1 games are easier for the "bottom" players than for the top players. But considering the players' own strength, it is much easier for the top players to proceed to next round than for the "bottom" players. The curves also show, that this year the stress on the top players is very even.
2023-09-27 09:10:26 Draganov: I also agree that we need a different format. The current format is brutal for the top players. It is very likely a player rated on 5-10 place to become a world champ just by splitting the result against the other player in the final. I have a solution which maybe is not the best but it sounds fair for me. If the final is between 2 players (the first one was amongst top 4 rated players and the second finalist is rated below top 4) the final must be started with equal results. All previously lost points must be deleted and both players play from 0:0. Then the point of R1 and R2 is just to survive and in R3 the chances are equal. If there are more than 2 players, let's they play round-robin tournament with previously lost points deleted.
2023-09-27 09:21:17 casshern: Regarding the likeliness of a third round in all 3 tournaments this year. I think the solution is simple. Each player should play at least 3 opponents. In each of the first 2 rounds. The race games could conclude after 2 rounds. With each player playing 6 matches respectively. If possible, I would suggest each player play 3 opponents in the second round. If it is not too late. I know SB is ready for the next round. As @Hagbard points out, the amount of games played should not affect the outcome. The best player should still win. I do not know how Alex or Odin feel. But I do not think they should have any complaints. The fact is they played against top tier opponents and lost. I do not hear them making any excuses.
2023-09-27 09:26:59 casshern: @Hagbard: Thank you for your response. I know the format has been a work in progress. Thank you for all the work you have done. As always, I appreciate the opportunity to give my opinion.
2023-09-27 09:44:20 casshern: My last suggestion for round 3 or 4, is a round robin as Draganov suggests. With players starting fresh (no previous loses counting against them). But players should play both variants, 9x9 and 11x11, against one another. If it is just 2 players then they play 2 matches. 3 players 4 matches and so on.
2023-09-27 09:50:37 Hagbard: (Vinland: Jrton80 moves on. Paul7 moves on.)
2023-09-27 09:59:52 Draganov: My proposal for starting fresh in R3 is when the finalists are a top player (placed between 1-4) and a player coming from the bottom. To avoid having a low rated player becoming a champion by just splitting against the top player, they need to play from equal result 0:0. If the two finalists are top players (1-4 place) the previous results must be preserved and they need to play the variant they didn't play against each other. In case of more than 2 players reached R3, they could play round-robin on equal basis.
2023-09-27 10:41:14 brave-frog: Hi guys! It's a good idea that the current games are hidden from the others, but it's a good idea to at least show how many games are left! :)
2023-09-27 10:45:15 brave-frog: Hi Hagbard! It will be good if in these http://aagenielsen.dk/wtfturnering2023.php we can see "v" instead of "x" if a game has been compelted
2023-09-27 10:50:01 Hagbard: How many games are left is here: http://aagenielsen.dk/wtfturnering2023_tael.php
2023-09-27 10:51:41 brave-frog: Because some of the conversation goes behind. Colophonius knows somehow Docbullen and I don't pass to the next round in See Battle, it is okay if you talk in private about this, but the others also are curious to see how many games have been completed :)
2023-09-27 10:56:06 brave-frog: Oh wow! Thank you! My apologises! But the others should know about this link! Can we have it on this page http://aagenielsen.dk/wtfturnering2023.php?
2023-09-27 10:57:00 brave-frog: Oh my apologises again. I am blind
2023-09-27 11:52:25 Hagbard: (Holmgarthr: Ailill moves on.)
2023-09-27 14:01:45 Hagbard: (Altta: Colophonius exits. Draganov moves on. Hagbard exits. Cacreal exits.)
2023-09-27 14:08:38 Hagbard: In case you didn't see it in all the messages: Welcome to the University class of foreign cultures, we're always happy to have you here!
2023-09-27 14:17:25 Draganov: I am a volunteer to give a good tafl battle to the champion from the University of foreign cultures. Hagbard, could you ask them if their champion wants to participate in such an exhibition match. We can play in Simple Tafl as this is the variant they use.
2023-09-27 16:19:07 Hagbard: If the umpire doesn't disagree, Holmgarthr Round 2 setup is ready: http://aagenielsen.dk/wtfturnering2023.php Awaiting a top player Round 1 game.
2023-09-27 16:35:52 ekve2: unfortunately I have to withdraw from the WTF, too much real world stuff going on, I gravely miscalculated the commitment needed, I'm sorry
2023-09-27 16:37:24 Hagbard: @ekve2, it's ok, thank you for participating!
2023-09-27 17:53:15 Hagbard: (Vinland: Platypus moves on.)
2023-09-27 20:56:24 Hagbard: (Altta: Rosk exits. Holmgarthr: Docbullen exits. Tonythebook exits. Konrad7890 exits. Fiji270 moves on. Ekve2 exits. Vinland: Lalli the hunter exits.)
2023-09-27 22:18:20 Hagbard: (Vinland: Ramzi moves on.)
2023-09-27 22:29:19 Hagbard: https://vejr.tv2.dk/2023-09-25-sjaeldent-kraftigt-nordlys-lyste-nattehimlen-op-over-danmark-snart-kan-du-se-det-igen
2023-09-27 22:32:06 Hagbard: https://www.tv2kosmopol.dk/metropolen/se-billederne-nordlys-over-danmark
2023-09-28 07:06:33 Hagbard: (Vinland: Docbullen exits. Tunsberg: Docbullen exits. Brave-frog exits.)
2023-09-28 08:48:29 Hagbard: (Altta: Xerxes moves on.)
2023-09-28 08:57:30 Draganov: @Xerxes, what a great comaback... You and I managed to win all of our Sahkku games and to survive after R2 despite both losing 3 games in Daldos.
2023-09-28 10:04:08 xerxes: @Draganov: I fear I have used up all my luck ...
2023-09-28 17:10:07 Draganov: @Hagbard, you said 2 years ago that the University of foreign cultures used a strange format for their tournament. Could you try to understand it and explain it to us. Probably we can test it in some tournaments in case it is good.
2023-09-28 18:14:33 Hagbard: No, they just play randomly, to try this ancient thing from Scandinavia
2023-09-28 18:46:04 Hagbard: Saw a couple of episodes of "Loki". We have our own screen version of Loki: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLPG7oykA6g
2023-09-28 19:32:07 Hagbard: (Tunsberg: Casshern moves on. Draganov moves on.)
2023-09-28 19:36:05 Hagbard: ATTENTION please! Sea Battle Round 2 starts tomorrow 29th at 18 o'clock Danish time!
2023-09-28 20:07:29 Colophonius: Hagbard, could you have a look at my Hex tournament game against arcrue? Its finished, but still continuing
2023-09-28 20:21:07 Draganov: @Hagbard, could you please check the max rating calculation. Now, I am 2090 but in the max rating it shows only 2050. I just won against Casshern but before and after my victory, the max rating was 2050. It was not changed.
2023-09-28 20:30:14 Colophonius: Nobody is supposed to win against Casshern, I guess xD
2023-09-28 20:52:09 Colophonius: There seems to be a problem in the Hex tournament with black winning; it's not recognized as a win.
2023-09-28 22:04:47 Hagbard: @Holidayinnes, please beware. Games are about to time out tomorrow evening. - I'll see to the other things tomorrow -
2023-09-29 01:59:05 ChaolAibhne: Is Market Hnefatafl 9x9 essentially Tablut with no throne and a different layout?
2023-09-29 09:02:30 Draganov: @ChaolAibhne, yes, it is the same like Tablut but without a throne and with different setup. No throne, edge escape, king captured from two sides.
2023-09-29 09:23:06 Hagbard: Just a simplified version of Tablut, invented for the Ringsted Medieval Festival last summer. And now used for the family board game days.
2023-09-29 09:26:31 Hagbard: On Hex: sorry, a bug. A getaround is to do one move more. Black places yet a piece, and the win is detected.
2023-09-29 09:39:53 Hagbard: @Draganov, there's been a big archive cleanup of no-games: timeouted games of 4-5-6 moves on large boards such as 11x11. Your rating calculated from all archive is now 2050, earlier 2046. Max. rating calculated from all archive is 2050 as before.
2023-09-29 09:49:53 Hagbard: @Holidayinnes, please beware. Games are about to time out this evening.
2023-09-29 10:26:59 Colophonius: Thanks a lot Hagbard, it worked
2023-09-29 14:32:57 Draganov: @Hagbard, it seems that Holidayinnes, Xerxes and I moved to R3 in the Race tournament. We all have 1.5 lost points so what will be our last battle? Could you clarify the rules for R3?
2023-09-29 15:12:39 Hagbard: (Altta: Holidayinnes moves on. Jrton80 exits.)
2023-09-29 15:24:34 Hagbard: Race Round 3 setup is ready: http://aagenielsen.dk/wtfturnering2023.php If you're up to it, Race Round 3 can start tonight together with the Sea: ATTENTION please! Race games Round 3 starts tonight 29th at 18 o'clock Danish time!
2023-09-29 15:41:04 Hagbard: Curiously, the three Race games finalists are the same three Race games top players of last year's tournament. Noone played against each other yet, and all have 1.5 losses. In case all players are eliminated in the last round: The player with the fewest losses won. If there are more players with the same fewest number of losses: Direct comparison of the games of the tied players. If this is also even, the player who in the comparison won with the largest number of pieces left, is the winner.
2023-09-29 15:43:49 Draganov: And what will be the variant that we are going to play? Sahkku or Daldos? Are we going to take the total number of pieces left from R1, R2 and R3 combined or only in R3?
2023-09-29 15:51:16 Hagbard: Sahkku. You meet each other for the first time. When players A and B are compared, pieces are only counted for the A-B games.
2023-09-30 08:57:14 Hagbard: (Holmgarthr: Jrton80 moves on. MasterLuke moves on. Vinland: Potapych moves on.)
2023-09-30 21:15:47 Hagbard: @Luizz, please beware. Games are about to time out tomorrow night.
2023-10-01 17:51:51 Hagbard: (Tunsberg: Hagbard exits.)
2023-10-01 19:43:09 Hagbard: https://www.dr.dk/drtv/se/gaaden-om-thyra_-runernes-hemmelighed_408876
2023-10-01 21:49:30 Hagbard: (Holmgarthr: Casshern moves on. Draganov moves on.)
2023-10-01 21:53:16 Hagbard: ATTENTION please! Hist.Hnef. Round 2 starts tomorrow 2nd at 18 o'clock Danish time!
2023-10-01 22:57:57 MasterLuke: @Hagbard: Thanks for your answer to my question on 09-18/15:31 (I haven't read this forum for a while). I didn't know there was a rating or symbol for being creative. It's kind of funny :D
2023-10-02 11:40:18 Hagbard: (Vinland: Brave-frog moves on.)
2023-10-02 18:09:38 Hagbard: The Race games tournament finished and we have a Race Games Master 2023: Mike Coveny ("holidayinnes") ! All three players were eliminated in the final. After the final the losses were: #1 Holidayinnes: 2 #2 Draganov: 2.5 #3 Xerxes: 3
2023-10-02 20:42:42 Draganov: Congratulations, Mike! Well deserved title! Your race games results were overall best during the whole year, so I am glad that the title went to the strongest player in this kind of games!
2023-10-03 06:34:26 Hagbard: (Vinland: Luizz moves on.)
2023-10-03 09:10:10 Hagbard: (Tunsberg: Alex Hnefatafl exits.)
2023-10-03 09:16:11 Hagbard: My four invitations are a test of a x1/2 quickmode: 1 hour per move, 2 days time buffer. A 60 moves game would always last less than 7 days, and preferably of course much less.
2023-10-03 09:49:48 Draganov: @Hagbard, I think the main drawback of your test-timing is that 1 hour is too long. Imagine the situation in which a player is playing fast until he realizes that he is in a lost position. Then, start playing slowly. Play one move and wait 1 hour to play the next move. The night comes and the better player went to sleep, then the losing player makes a move and wins the game. I think if we want to test a fast time control, we had better use smaller time buffer. For example, 10 minutes time buffer.
2023-10-03 09:51:31 Draganov: We just need to decrease the time per move to 10 minutes and keep the time buffer to 2 days or decrease it to 1 day it doesn't matter since the game will not last for 1 whole day.
2023-10-03 10:05:18 Hagbard: Perhaps. Perhaps 0.5 hour or even 0.25 hour per move. And perhaps time buffer 1.5 day. Problem is speed & flexibility. You should be able to do other things also and once in a while see if it's your turn.
2023-10-03 10:30:36 Draganov: What about implementing the option freeze for 8 or 10 hours. It will be good, if the game prolongs until the night, the players to be able to freeze the game timer and went to bed. Then, on the next day continue the game. Is such a functionality difficult to be implemented?
2023-10-03 10:31:43 Draganov: And a player to be able to freeze the game maximum 3 times.
2023-10-03 10:36:36 Hagbard: The time buffer does this. A player sleeps and takes 9 hours off the time buffer.
2023-10-03 10:37:42 Hagbard: - if he does this 3 times, the buffer might be gone -
2023-10-03 10:43:19 Draganov: I got the point. At first, I thought that a player will lose if doesn't make a move in 1 hour. Now, I understand that the player has 1 hour to make a move before starting consuming his time buffer.
2023-10-03 10:46:43 Hagbard: Yes same system as usual. The list of response times shows that average 0.5 hour is real quick, noone faster than that.
2023-10-03 11:41:41 Skye: @Hagbard, would it be an idea to have a clock running with each game played, so players know how much time they have left? Like having a chess next to the board.
2023-10-03 11:52:03 Skye: Chess must be clock.
2023-10-03 16:18:10 Hagbard: My testgames now: 0.5 hour/move and time buffer 2 days.
2023-10-03 17:12:27 Hagbard: Now 0.25 hour/move.
2023-10-03 20:39:44 Hagbard: (Vinland: Casshern moves on.)
2023-10-04 14:45:13 Hagbard: @Casshern, please beware. A game is about to time out tomorrow morning.
2023-10-04 15:35:21 Draganov: I think this is the only time we have more than one player with rating above 2100. I wonder how the rating is generated because Casshern had maximum rating of 2350+. I don't know how he managed to achieve such high rating. It looks impossible. In the past the highest rated players except Casshern were Plantagenet and OdinHimself (both around 2000). To achieve rating 300 points more than them, it means to beat them at least 50 times without losing since you usually receive 5-8 points for a win and from one point when the difference in rating is more than 200 points, you will receive only 2-3 points.
2023-10-04 15:51:12 Hagbard: After the big archive cleanup of ultrashort timed out no-games, the max. rating now calculated is 2317. I suppose it's a result of very many and very accurate games -
2023-10-04 16:43:30 mrcrow: I encountered a glitch in one of my WC games that is currently ongoing. I should have gotten a shield wall rule capture but it did not register it. In the rules of Copenhagen 11x11 hnefatafl that the WC links to it says 4b "The shieldwall rule for capturing a row of pieces on the board edge: A row of two or more taflmen along the board edge may be captured together, by bracketing the whole group at both ends, as long as every member of the row has an enemy taflman directly in front of him. A corner square may stand in for one of the bracketing pieces at one end of the row. The king may take part in the capture, either as part of the shieldwall or as a bracketing piece. If the king plus one or more defenders are attacked with a shieldwall, the attack will capture the defenders but not the king." I have done this and it did not register this rule.
2023-10-04 17:23:18 xerxes: @mrcrow: I'll have a look. Who was your opponent and were you Black or White.
2023-10-04 17:54:49 Hagbard: (Tunsberg: Colophonius moves on. Paul7 exits.)
2023-10-04 17:55:19 casshern: Probably in 2020 my rating was at the highest. I only lost 3 games that year. I started and ended the year with loses to Death, with a lose to Ded Fomich in the middle. And most of my games at the time were against strong players. I remember only gaining a 1 or 2 points per win, even against strong opponents. And loses I would lose 15+ points. It was a very long grind for my rating to go so high. But I have never really caree about my rating. I suppose it was just a byproduct of so many victories. Personally, I feel my rating is too high now. I am not as active as I used to be. And I my rating is still falling from that high point.
2023-10-04 18:11:35 mrcrow: I was white, my opponent is Sybil
2023-10-04 18:12:41 xerxes: @Aage, please see my email.
2023-10-04 18:40:48 xerxes: @mcrow: The Shieldwall Capture occurs when the capturing piece is moved to one end of the captured pieces (thus bracketing the enemy's men), not in front of one of captured pieces, so in your case it is not a capture.
2023-10-04 19:12:45 Colophonius: So the shieldwall finally must be closed at one end or the other? I also didn't know that, since I'm not playing too much Copenhagen. Thanks for the information.
2023-10-04 19:58:34 xerxes: @Colophonius: yes, that is correct.
2023-10-04 20:21:42 Hagbard: @Casshern, please beware. Some games are about to time out tomorrow evening.
2023-10-04 21:05:21 cacreal: message board comments should be worth 1/2 a point...
2023-10-04 21:20:47 xerxes: I'll put in one every 5 minutes
2023-10-04 21:40:44 Hagbard: :)
2023-10-04 21:50:22 Hagbard: https://www.dr.dk/drtv/se/gaaden-om-thyra_-knoglerne-under-kirken_408875
2023-10-04 22:16:45 mrcrow: @xerxes Respectfully, I should not be subjected to the sudden introduction of a new condition not specifically stated in the shieldwall rule section in which the last move of the shield rule capture has to be a bracketing move. Because it was not explicitly stated exactly that had to be the case, I had no reason to assume the condition of last move must be a bracket move nor should I assume such given a lack of evidence to suggest it. Colophonius also not being aware of that condition gives more credence to my argument given that they too were not aware of that despite what was written in that section of the shieldwall capture. To quote "I can understant the idea behind needing bracket to capture, but it needs to be stated." From my perspective of this shieldwave issue it looks as a new rule was made up out of nowhere, which is simply unfair treatment.
2023-10-04 22:52:36 xerxes: @mrcrow: Please see my email. Thanks.
2023-10-05 06:06:37 Hagbard: @Casshern, please beware. Games are about to time out in 12 hours.
2023-10-05 20:49:09 Hagbard: NB! Tim Millar ("crust") made this thorough explanation of the shieldwalls: https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.1637222823214092.1073741840.1464975820438794&type=3
2023-10-06 12:42:25 Hagbard: (Tunsberg: Draganov moves on. Ailill moves on.)
2023-10-06 18:48:35 Hagbard: (Holmgarthr: Potapych exits.)
2023-10-06 21:19:25 Hagbard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyXb-VsR57w
2023-10-06 21:51:52 Hagbard: (Holmgarthr: Brave-frog moves on.)
2023-10-07 13:10:57 Hagbard: (Vinland: Ailill moves on. Mrcrow moves on.)
2023-10-07 13:14:53 Hagbard: If the umpire doesn't disagree, Vinland Round 2 setup is ready: http://aagenielsen.dk/wtfturnering2023.php Awaiting a few top player Round 1 games.
2023-10-07 13:16:31 Dimetr: Hagbard! It seems, that it will be more than 3 players, in the 3 round of Historical championship (Holmgarthr). So we need to know, in what version we will play in round 3? I think it will be best to continue Lewis Cross -W. It would be better, not to change the version, during the tournament. But then, after 3rd round, If only two players move to the final - they can choose a version between themselves. That do you think?
2023-10-07 13:30:46 Hagbard: Hist. Round 3 is planned to continue with the Tawlbwrdd Lewis cross-w 11x11. Round 3 could turn out to be rough and final. But should a couple of players survive Round 3, I don't know, perhaps as in a duel they could choose and agree on the weapon to use (the variant). (I would say a board not less than 11x11.) The umpire will be in on that.
2023-10-07 13:43:13 Dimetr: Yes, that's what we need! Thanks
2023-10-08 08:53:51 xerxes: @Aage. Fine to go ahead with Vinland Round 2
2023-10-08 21:28:57 Hagbard: ok ATTENTION please! Copenhagen Round 2 starts tomorrow 9th at 16 o'clock Danish time!
2023-10-09 06:39:31 Hagbard: (Vinland: Sybil exits. Arcrue moves on.)
2023-10-09 07:09:01 Hagbard: If the umpire doesn't disagree, Sea Round 3 setup is ready: http://aagenielsen.dk/wtfturnering2023.php Sea Round 3 can start tonight together with the Copenhagen: ATTENTION please! Sea games Round 3 starts tonight 9th at 16 o'clock Danish time!
2023-10-09 15:10:37 Draganov: @Hagbard, regarding R3 in Sea Battle, Aillil and I already played in Sea battle tafl-w 11x11. Does it mean that we are going to play in Sea battle-2526 9x9 and Colophonius and I will play in Sea battle tafl-w 11x11?
2023-10-09 15:21:27 Hagbard: It was not possible to avoid two players meeting again in Sea 3. All games are Sea battle-w 11x11.
2023-10-09 15:23:14 Hagbard: Or alternatively, Casshern and you could meet again but this time the 11x11, first time was 9x9.
2023-10-09 15:38:26 Draganov: If Casshern and I meet again now, it will be of benefit of Ailill and Colophonius since they will have easier path to the final match. I think Casshern and I facing the other two players and then if we both survive R3 meet again sounds most logical.
2023-10-09 15:53:46 casshern: Regarding SB round 3, Draganov has already played Ailill and myself. So there is no avoiding a repeat match up. Since we will be using 11x11 board, I do not think Draganov and Ailill should have to play each other again. Which leaves only one path for round 3, Draganov and Ailill against Colophonius and Casshern.
2023-10-09 15:56:49 Hagbard: Started the pattern as it would've been where 11x11 games are not repeated.
2023-10-09 16:04:10 casshern: Exactly, thanks Aage!
2023-10-09 16:08:18 Hagbard: May Thor grant you strength and courage on your way!
2023-10-10 05:45:44 Hagbard: (Tunsberg: Potapych exits.)
2023-10-10 08:05:24 Hagbard: (Holmgarthr: Dimetr moves on. Jrton80 exits.)
2023-10-10 20:34:02 Hagbard: https://www.dr.dk/drtv/se/gaaden-om-danmarks-foerste-konge_-haralds-spin_280406
2023-10-11 19:16:47 Hagbard: @Ramzi Khadhraoui, please beware! Games are about to time out tomorrow.
2023-10-11 20:20:08 Hagbard: https://www.dr.dk/drtv/se/gaaden-om-danmarks-foerste-konge_-de-mystiske-sagn_280403
2023-10-12 11:54:24 Hagbard: @Alex Hnefatafl, please beware! A game is about to time out in a few hours.
2023-10-13 06:51:03 Hagbard: (Holmgarthr: MasterLuke exits. Fiji270 exits.)
2023-10-13 21:47:07 Hagbard: (Vinland: Arcrue exits.)
2023-10-15 09:43:40 Hagbard: (Holmgarthr: Ailill exits.)
2023-10-15 12:51:57 Hagbard: (Tunsberg: Colophonius exits.)
2023-10-15 18:01:43 Hagbard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjVVqpZw-wg
2023-10-16 09:15:45 Hagbard: @Paul7 and Ramzi kKhadhraoui: Please beware! Games are about to time out.
2023-10-16 13:18:03 Hagbard: (Holmgarthr: Casshern moves on. Paul7 exits.)
2023-10-16 13:36:32 Hagbard: If the umpire doesn't disagree, Hist. Round 3 setup is ready: http://aagenielsen.dk/wtfturnering2023.php ATTENTION please! Hist. games Round 3 starts tomorrow 17th at 18 o'clock Danish time!
2023-10-16 18:27:52 Dimetr: Hagbard! I don't like setup of round 3. I will play with Casshern and Draganov in one round. So, my position - it's the most hard, than everyone else! I don't understand, why my number is 03 now? (I was 02, in the second round). Let's change the setup? I think it's quite possible to make the setup more balanced. I'm even ready to play with either Casshern, or Draganov, one side, and with Chaolaibhne and Brave-frog, at the same time, other side. So, could you try to make some alternative setup (without the pair Draganov - Casshern or Draganov - Chaolaibhne, who had played each other, already)?
2023-10-16 19:03:34 Draganov: @Dimetr, it will be difficult to have a different setup. I already played against Casshern and Chaolaibhne, so my only possible opponents are you and Brave-frog. If you play me, who will be your other opponent? If it is Chaolaibhne, then Brave-frog will need to play against me and Casshern and in that situation he will have to play against two champions at once.
2023-10-16 19:35:43 Hagbard: You're right that you were switched to #03 because Draganov/ChaolAibhne already played this variant. Another possibility maybe: 00 Draganov 01 Casshern 02 Dimetr 03 Brave-frog 04 ChaolAibhne
2023-10-16 19:40:03 Draganov: Then, Brave-frog will play against me and Casshern
2023-10-16 19:47:25 Hagbard: This is very close to the original order Casshern, Draganov, Dimetr, ChaolAibhne, Brave-frog Casshern and Draganov are very equal, and ChaolAibhne and Brave-frog also are very equal. If only these two pairs are switched, then Draganov and ChaolAibhne will not meet.
2023-10-16 19:48:34 Dimetr: Yes, you are right, I get it now! So, I will try to ask Brave Frog, maybe he will agreed to play with both champions. If he not - ok, I will fight with both of you. Hagbard, give me one more day pause, please (especially, one of the Round 2 games is not finished yet)
2023-10-16 19:57:42 Hagbard: The order Draganov, Casshern, Dimetr, Brave-frog, ChaolAibhne is very close to the original one, so this is a very small change.
2023-10-16 20:23:36 Hagbard: (Vinland: Potapych exits. Mrcrow exits.)
2023-10-16 20:59:48 brave-frog: Hi everybody! I am on loss to get out. I can play with Casshern and Draganov in round 3. It is an honor for me
2023-10-16 21:04:38 Hagbard: @brave-frog, thank you that's the spirit! @Dimetr, I think the tourn. could start tomorrow anyway then?
2023-10-16 21:10:10 Dimetr: Hagbard! Yes, why not, thanks 🙏 Just show us new setup
2023-10-16 21:19:18 Draganov: @Brave-frog, I think you could only have benefits from playing against me and Casshern. You have already made a great performance beating very strong players in weak king variants as well as in Copenhagen. Fighting against two world champions is a great way to exit the tournament with high honor. Moreover, it will help you to improve your play. To be among the best, you need to play against the best and learn from them. So, good luck and enjoy your games against me and Casshern!
2023-10-16 21:40:59 Hagbard: If the umpire doesn't disagree, Hist. Round 3 setup is ready: http://aagenielsen.dk/wtfturnering2023.php ATTENTION please! Hist. games Round 3 starts tomorrow 17th at 18 o'clock Danish time!
2023-10-17 11:57:26 Hagbard: (Vinland: Floki exits.)
2023-10-17 14:43:12 Hagbard: (Vinland: OdinHimself moves on. Platypus exits.)
2023-10-17 18:36:52 Hagbard: (Vinland: Ailill exits.)
2023-10-17 19:20:36 Hagbard: (Vinland: Hagbard exits.)
2023-10-17 19:47:55 Hagbard: (Vinland: Jrton80 moves on. Brave-frog exits.)
2023-10-17 23:13:56 Hagbard: Special characters: " @ # $ % & '
2023-10-18 02:14:55 cacreal: Can round 3 Copenhagen be a live 2 hour speed round ?
2023-10-18 11:03:04 Draganov: @Cacreal, I am also a fan of the blitz games. However, I don't think it will be possible to make drastic changes during the championship. However, if we meet against each other in R3 we could ask Hagbard to decrease our time buffer. Now, what I am suggesting is to have a list of players who express their will to play under blitz time control. If we have a big list of player's names, we could arrange a new blitz tournament and have a blitz champion too. Tonythebook and I were also thinking about playing and streaming the games on the Internet with cameras on. Maybe we could use Zoom or Skype, switch the cameras on and streamed the games on YouTube. I need to research this idea from a technical perspective but I think it will be possible to organize and set it up. Moreover, I believe this will help us to popularize the tafl game.
2023-10-18 17:02:21 Colophonius: Brandubh seems also to be very blitzable - just sayin'
2023-10-18 17:04:34 Hagbard: @Luizz, please beware! Games are about to time out.
2023-10-18 17:18:43 Draganov: It will be good if a player is willing to play blitz to express it and mention the variants he would like to play. Here is my example: Blitz ready! All variants :)
2023-10-18 17:20:25 Hagbard: I experimented with 15 minutes per move, time buffer 1.5 day. It worked ok, a 60 moves game cannot last more than 3.5 days. One was not tied to the comp. and still could play live some of the time.
2023-10-18 20:19:49 cacreal: Thanks for the quick battles @Hagbard, it was good and that timing is definitely an option for me
2023-10-18 20:50:36 Ailill: I would be happy to play blitz in any variant, sounds like fun. Of course, subject to finding a date and time that suits everyone. Maybe it would be a good idea to set up a thread in the main forum where it will remain visible for longer.
2023-10-18 21:11:48 Hagbard: NB! Test: Any non-tournament game against Cacreal or against Hagbard has quick timing: 15 minutes per move and 1.5 days time buffer.
2023-10-18 21:17:28 Hagbard: (Vinland: Casshern moves on. Holidayinnes exits.)
2023-10-19 10:35:26 Hagbard: (Vinland: Draganov moves on.)
2023-10-19 17:59:44 Hagbard: @Ramzi Khadhraoui, please beware! Games are about to time out.
2023-10-19 18:54:15 Hagbard: (Vinland: Garun19 moves on.)
2023-10-20 06:24:42 Hagbard: (Tunsberg: Ailill exits.)
2023-10-20 11:34:18 Colophonius: Hagbard, would it be possible to bring back Brandubh 2 in the balance and haphazardness section? It seems to be one of the more popular variants among the small boards.
2023-10-21 06:59:47 Hagbard: (Vinland: Alex Hnefatafl moves on. Paul7 exits.)
2023-10-21 08:40:09 Hagbard: @Colophonius, done
2023-10-21 15:31:55 Colophonius: Thank you very much!
2023-10-23 08:06:20 Hagbard: (Vinland: Cacreal moves on.)
2023-10-23 08:12:46 Hagbard: If the umpire doesn't disagree, Cop. Round 3 setup is ready: http://aagenielsen.dk/wtfturnering2023.php ATTENTION please! Cop. games Round 3 starts tomorrow 24th at evening Danish time!
2023-10-24 12:35:38 xerxes: Cop R3 OK by me Aage.
2023-10-24 12:55:51 Hagbard: thank you!
2023-10-24 20:43:38 Hagbard: May Odin give you knowledge on your path.
2023-10-25 08:45:11 Hagbard: (Seven strong players in Round 3, it looks the same as a round 3 before 2021)
2023-10-25 19:20:56 Hagbard: Round 3 2023: Casshern, Odinhimself, Draganov, Alex hnefatafl, Cacreal, Garun19, Jrton80 Round 3 2020: Casshern, Draganov, Cacreal, Garun19, Bogd khan Round 3 2019: Casshern, Odinhimself, Khan asparukh, Bogd khan Round 3 2018: Casshern, Odinhimself, Khan asparukh, Sqaree, Adam, Epm180, Steiger Round 3 2017: Casshern, Odinhimself, Edmond-dantes, Plantagenet, Animals, Sqaree Round 3 2016: Sigurd, Crust, Herjan, Adam, Bigwurm91, Hagbard, Xerxes, Tuireann Round 3 2015: Crust, Sqaree, Animals, Adam, Altti, Epoc, Kratzer Round 3 2014: Plantagenet, Schachus, Nath, Crust, Adam, Duhawk93, Altti, Helfrich, Docbullen
2023-10-25 20:53:18 Draganov: In 2014 the finalists were the strongest ever. Of course, back than some players didn't reach their full potential (like Plantagenet who peaked 3 years later) but they were talanted. Look at the maximum reached rating by these great players: Plantagenet 2018; Schachus 2010; Crust 1970; Nath 1956; Adam 1933; Altti 1910; Duhawk93 1755; Docbullen 1740; Helfrich 1575. The first 5 mentioned was former or future world champions. Altti was as strong as a world champ and nowadays is the highest rated Copenhagen player in the Felhuhn's mobile app (playing under the nickname Hnaef Healfdane)... really a world-class player. Duhawk93 in my opinion is one of the most original players, especially in the opening phase. Docbullen in 2014 won the UK National Championship, so he was amongst the leading British players. Only Helfrich was a middle-level player but he has 2 victories over Plantagenet, so he was dangerous too. What a great tournament... truly the golden age of tafl.
2023-10-25 21:45:32 Hagbard: - And all those former round 3's were Round Robins. Each 2014 player had 8 very strong opponents and 16 games in Round 3.
2023-10-25 21:52:42 Draganov: What was the time buffer back then?
2023-10-25 22:30:17 Hagbard: Big amount of time in 2014: "Final round: each player can use 20 days for 10 moves. Even if a player would time out from this rule, he does always have 1.5 day to do his current move. But never more than 15 days to do his current move."
2023-10-25 23:22:33 Draganov: How fast or slow kind of player was Schachus in 2014? How long did his games last?
2023-10-25 23:38:57 Hagbard: 104 days for a game.
2023-10-25 23:55:10 Hagbard: Nath, Plantagenet 112 days for a game.
2023-10-27 17:36:11 Draganov: Playing with 20 days time buffer is very difficult. I once played with such a long time buffer on the website of Dashstofsk and almost timed-out since I forgot that I was playing.
2023-10-27 17:41:06 Hagbard: yes you can say that again - that sort of timing was a disaster. It was used because the internet described this method as a normal way of timing on the net.
2023-10-27 18:27:12 Hagbard: If the umpire doesn't disagree, Hist. Round 4 setup is ready: http://aagenielsen.dk/wtfturnering2023.php Awaiting a few top player Round 3 games.
2023-10-27 18:43:44 Hagbard: (Holmgarthr: Brave-frog exits.)
2023-10-27 21:53:34 Dimetr: Gentlemen! Casshern and Draganov! I will be glad to play with you!
2023-10-27 22:17:14 Dimetr: This year, Draganov, Alex, Potapych and I, and other players, did a good job. I am very grateful for you all! We played many tournaments Tawlbwrdd Lewis Cross -W (white first), and realised that it's perfect version. Now, I think it was a good choice, and all players of the WC, liked the game. So I hope, we will continue playing Lewis Cross in final?
2023-10-27 22:46:09 Draganov: I think this year was good for Hnefatafl in general. A lot of players have progressed a lot. For example, I won many tournaments and reached my highest rating ever. Floki won against Plantagenet and me. Brave-frog reached R3 in the WC. Dimetr and Potapych won a lot of games against strong players and established themselves as top players. Jrton80 won against Casshern and me several times. MasterLuke reached his highest rating beating some very strong opponents. Alex achieved raing above 2000. So, in general, it was a great year for Hnefatafl.
2023-10-27 22:47:01 Hagbard: yes that's ok, Round 4 as Round 3.
2023-10-28 08:55:15 casshern: @Hagbard: I thought we had upto 5 moves to cancel a game. I started a pair of games with mrcrow and was able to cancel one game but not the other. Would you be able to cancel the other game for me? It has only been 4 moves so far.
2023-10-28 09:55:06 Draganov: @Casshern, the game is unrated with timing x10. You can just resign it or just play when you have time. Mrcrow is a newbie and will not be a difficult opponent even if you think 10 seconds per move. I myself started playing 6 unrated games against him, just to help him improve and taste the game against a top player.
2023-10-28 10:48:45 Hagbard: ok
2023-10-28 12:39:58 Colophonius: @Hagbard Round 4 can start.
2023-10-28 22:49:16 Hagbard: ATTENTION please! Hist. Hnef. Round 4 starts tomorrow 29th at 18 o'clock Danish time!
2023-10-29 00:24:25 Colophonius: @Hagbard What would you think about testing a new sea battle 7x7 variant? No throne, no corners, the king unarmed and captured everywhere by two enemy pieces, either in the standard cross setup or the circle setup. :) The line setup doesn't make sense here, I think.
2023-10-29 00:27:40 Colophonius: I admit, that I liked the idea of a 7x7 board in blue.
2023-10-29 00:30:26 Colophonius: It should work, because it's not that different from Walker-Brandubh :)
2023-10-29 09:15:59 Hagbard: (Holmgarthr: Casshern moves on. Chaolaibhne exits.)
2023-10-29 09:27:03 Hagbard: @Draganov, please beware! Two games are about to time out.
2023-10-29 13:49:41 Hagbard: (The three players in Hist.Hnef. Round 4 are the same three top players as last year.)
2023-10-29 13:50:54 Hagbard: @Colophonius, interesting. The idea requires changes in software, which must not be touched during the World Tourn. But it could be tested in real life in the waiting time.
2023-10-29 14:00:27 Colophonius: No need to hurry, in the meantime, I'll test it on my board. :)
2023-10-30 10:48:20 Draganov: @Hagbard, I have a proposal of a grand tournament like in 2015 when Schachus, Crust and Nath played against each other. Back then, it was a battle between the 3 world champs. However, nowadays, we can't have more than 2 world champs in a tournament since only Casshern and I are actively playing. So, I think it will be great to have an exhibition tournament with the top 5 best players of the recent years. As I can see, these players are Casshern, Draganov, OdinHimself, Alex Hnefatafl and Cacreal regarding Copenhagen variant. I am also open to see former world champs like Plantagenet, Herjan, Crust, Nath, Schachus or Adam to take part in that tournament. As former world champs they must be always welcome to take part in it, if they want to participate. The last player to which I think it should be given a wild card and be invited is Bogd Khan. So, the tournament will bring together the strongest players and will produce memorable games that could be commented and help the other players to improve.
2023-10-30 10:51:35 Draganov: We could also have a similar historical weak-king tournament in which the top players could be Casshern, Draganov, Dimetr, Alex Hnefatafl, Jilles and an open invitation to Ded Fomich.
2023-10-30 11:54:36 Hagbard: Sounds like it could be a fun idea. Plantagenet, Crust, Schachus, Herjan, Bogd khan and Nath are rare guests nowadays. But simply noticing the top of the separate Copenhagen rating there are: 2114 Casshern (536) 1961 Odinhimself (552) 1959 Draganov (843) 1864 Alex hnefatafl (736) 1787 Cacreal (1165) 1753 Garun19 (267) 1689 Holidayinnes (860) 1659 Sqaree (466) 1621 Adam (258) The same for Hist. Hnef. is: 2000 Casshern (607) 1928 Draganov (1048) 1911 Irish raven (145) 1877 Alex hnefatafl (947) 1810 Odinhimself (115) 1753 Boucher228 (221) 1734 Jilles (588) 1733 Dimetr (521) 1676 Holidayinnes (1225) If some players cannot make it, that would perhaps be a Round Robin of five players per line. Since several players are on both lists, the two lines couldn't be at the same time. After the World Tourn. players probably need a good pause, so it would be some time after New Year.
2023-10-30 13:26:12 Draganov: Yes, to organize such a tournament after the WTF and in the early 2024 would be perfect. The other thing that I have in mind is to test the short-timing in a tournament with top players. Maybe we could use the short-timing in the grand tournament.
2023-10-30 14:26:37 Hagbard: The x4 timing which is used now in the World Tourn., is actually tailored for the top players. Archive game runs testing various timings, showed that x4 is the shortest timing which would have given very few timeouts last year.
2023-10-30 14:34:31 Hagbard: - But some day perhaps it could be fun to try the quick-timing for a tournament of short games like Market Hnefatafl 9x9 or Saami Tablut-w 9x9.
2023-11-01 10:25:28 Hagbard: (Vinland: Casshern moves on.)
2023-11-01 10:46:53 Hagbard: Info: Yesterday evening the webhotel updated its database servers. It seems that the system response times have now increased. That will supposedly be fixed soon.
2023-11-01 15:40:22 Hagbard: (Vinland: Ramzi Khadhraoui exits. Luizz exits.)
2023-11-02 08:43:37 Hagbard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsoPiMD8zNU
2023-11-02 22:05:18 Hagbard: (Tunsberg: Casshern moves on. Draganov moves on.)
2023-11-02 22:08:09 Hagbard: If the umpire doesn't disagree, Sea Round 4 setup is ready: http://aagenielsen.dk/wtfturnering2023.php ATTENTION please! Sea Round 4 starts tomorrow 3rd at 18 o'clock Danish time!
2023-11-02 22:10:35 Hagbard: (The final players in the Sea Tafl are the same two players as last year.)
2023-11-04 13:01:03 Colophonius: Sea Battle round 4 can start.
2023-11-04 13:29:24 Hagbard: thank you
2023-11-04 17:01:39 Hagbard: (Vinland: Jrton80 exits.)
2023-11-04 18:14:44 Hagbard: @Draganov, please beware! A game is about to time out.
2023-11-06 07:51:49 Hagbard: (Vinland: Alex Hnefatafl moves on. Garun19 exits.)
2023-11-08 15:59:39 Hagbard: The origin of the Ragnarok myth: https://www.science.org/content/article/why-536-was-worst-year-be-alive
2023-11-09 16:16:54 Draganov: @Hagbard, when I watch a game replay, the moves seem to be loaded very slowly. It takes about 3-4 seconds to load the next move. Is this a bug or the problem is in my laptop? I tested it on my smartphone and seems to be slow too.
2023-11-09 16:22:36 Hagbard: I notice it too. It is since the webhotel attempted to update their database software Nov. 1st. Their update failed for now and will be done later, but the response times are slow after this.
2023-11-09 17:07:26 floki: @Hagbard Draganov is not the only one with this problem. Game from the archives are very slow motion. I can even guess what happens before the move which says a lot...
2023-11-09 17:24:28 Draganov: @Floki, you can guess the next move because you are a very good player ;)
2023-11-09 18:33:07 floki: @ Draganov: You are right, I am a super player, far beyond reach ! Casshern, you and Cacreal are slightly more than beginners compared to me !
2023-11-10 12:08:56 Hagbard: If the umpire doesn't disagree, Copenhagen Round 4 setup is ready: http://aagenielsen.dk/wtfturnering2023.php ATTENTION please! Copenhagen Round 4 starts tomorrow 11th at 18 o'clock Danish time!
2023-11-11 10:02:27 xerxes: Fine for Copenhagen Round 4 to start Aage.
2023-11-11 10:08:55 Hagbard: thank you!
2023-11-12 08:15:24 Hagbard: (6 players left in the tourn. right now: 2 Bulgarians, 2 Americans, 2 Russians.)
2023-11-12 09:59:47 Draganov: Although, Bulgaria is a small country, we have probably the strongest team of 3 players compared to other nations -> Draganov, OdinHimself and Bogd Khan... Let's see the top 3 players from the other countries: USA: Casshern, Jrton80, Pasta (formerly known as Teondrae) Canada: very strong team Cacreal, Garun19, Holidayinnes Russia: Alex Hnefatafl, Dimetr, Rosk Germany: Sqaree, Colophonius, Luizz UK: Herjan, Platypus, Xerxes Maybe we could have national team tournaments in the future?
2023-11-12 19:42:02 xerxes: @Draganov: Off the top of my head, DocBullen, Crust, Animals and probably Tonythebook are stronger than me ...
2023-11-12 19:44:26 xerxes: ... and having given it a bit more thought there is also ChaolAibhne and Herjan.
2023-11-12 20:15:36 Draganov: @Xerxes, unfortunately Crust and Animals are not active anymore and ChaolAibhne is a strong player mostly in weak king variants while I had in mind the Copenhagen variant.
2023-11-12 20:29:11 Draganov: Btw, does anyone keep in touch with Crust? I would be glad if someone asks him if he wants to come back for a Fetlar match against me. I also would like to play a match against Adam in Copenhagen or Fetlar (his choice). I tried to persuade Nath to come back for a match against me but at that moment he seems to be completely retired. The only world champion who played a match of 10 games against me was Herjan (a true tafl warrior).
2023-11-14 16:02:33 Hagbard: NB! Tournament 628 Saami Tablut-w is a test of using quick-timing in a tournament.
2023-11-14 19:39:28 Dimetr: Tablut - it's a magical thing! Let's join
2023-11-15 19:49:20 Dimetr: And how much time do we have? It's seems it's too quick
2023-11-16 00:26:26 Hagbard: It's the same quick format. 15 minutes per move. 1.5 day buffer.
2023-11-16 07:50:50 Hagbard: (Holmgarthr: Dimetr exits.)
2023-11-16 18:43:50 Draganov: @Hagbard, what is the time increment per move for the quick timing?
2023-11-16 19:56:15 Hagbard: 15 minutes.
2023-11-16 19:56:42 Hagbard: (Vinland: OdinHimself exits.)
2023-11-17 09:31:07 Hagbard: Well, I can see that it happens that a player is returned an hour instead of just 15 minutes. This was not quite on purpose but a leftover from the ordinary timing, a feature which influences the end of long games. But now that it's there, it's lucky, because I don't think the Tablut tourn. would work without it.
2023-11-17 22:36:51 Draganov: I also think it will be good to have 1 hour increment per move for the tournaments. So far, the Tablut tournament is going fine. Noone timed-out and the games are progressing well. However, it will be good if slow-paced players also test this time control.
2023-11-18 00:16:32 Hagbard: If the umpire doesn't disagree, the Hist.Hnef. tournament finished and we have a Historical Hnefatafl World Champion 2023: Mario Aluizo ("Casshern") ! #2 Draganov #3 Dimetr
2023-11-18 14:10:10 Dimetr: Congratulations Casshern! It was a great tournament. Thanks everyone for the wonderful games! If we will choose the best game of historical tournament - I suggest Casshern - Dimetr 50 moves. Casshern won me beautifully with white, in a difficult position - his king ran around the board, and gone from the other side
2023-11-18 17:19:09 brave-frog: I have timed out agains in a winning position because of the night time. I suggest to add a sleep settings during this time players don't care about timeouts
2023-11-18 18:30:53 xerxes: Congratulations to Casshern
2023-11-18 20:51:52 cacreal: Thanks to all my opponents for the interesting games, I am happy to play Copenhagen if anyone wants to play on the 1.5 day, 2 hour move clock while I wait for my final game to complete; otherwise see you again in 2024.
2023-11-18 22:03:24 Hagbard: If the umpire doesn't disagree, the Sea tafl tournament finished and we have a Sea Battle Master 2023: Plamen Draganov ("Draganov") ! #2 Casshern #3 Ailill
2023-11-18 22:11:55 Draganov: Congratulations to Casshern for winning the Historical Championship! Great performance and very interesting games.
2023-11-18 22:14:18 Colophonius: I agree. Casshern and Draganov are the last tafl-men standing in Historical Hnefatafl and Sea battle tafl. Congratulation to both of you!
2023-11-19 00:53:41 casshern: @All, thanks! I am surprised, but grateful to have won the Historical Hnefatafl tournament. Congratulations to Draganov. He was a league above in Sea Battle.
2023-11-19 16:43:44 Hagbard: @brave-frog, but the night time is included in the buffer. If there's a problem, the solution would be to increase the buffer a bit.
2023-11-19 20:52:25 Draganov: I think it will be best if a player can activate night time off. For example, a player clicks on a button to add 8 hours to his time buffer. Each player could increase his time buffer by 8 hours three times during a game. This is necessary because it is very likely if you play against fast players to lose 8 hours each day because your active opponent played last before bed time. So in every night your time buffer is reduced. Hagbard, would it be possible to implement an option for a player to increase his time buffer by 8 hours three times per a game? The other solution is just to increase the time buffer with a day. I think fast control will work well in tournaments if we use the standard time buffer of 4 days but the time increment is 1 hour per move.
2023-11-20 08:27:53 Hagbard: It means a change in software, so it must wait till after the WTF tourn. finished.
2023-11-20 22:37:53 Hagbard: (Vinland: Cacreal exits.)
2023-11-20 23:58:42 Hagbard: (3 players left in the tourn. right now: 1 American, 1 Russian, 1 Bulgarian.)
2023-11-21 21:10:59 Ailill: I am a bit surprised to see I have apparently come third in the Sea Battle contest, but I'll take it :) Great tournaments everyone, thank you to the organisers and congratulations to the winners. Let's hope for more good games and tournaments in 2024.
2023-11-21 21:12:37 Draganov: @Hagbard, could you please clarify what will be used to determine the winner for the Copenhagen championship if all of the players are eliminated and there are two or more players with equal points? Are we going to play another round or round-robin group or will use direct comprasion of the games between the tied players?
2023-11-21 21:40:23 Hagbard: The criteria are outlined here: http://aagenielsen.dk/diagonalformat.php The details is for the umpire.
2023-11-21 22:00:47 Draganov: Thanks for the clarification, Hagbard.
2023-11-22 17:01:46 Draganov: @Hagbard, can we have Sea battle 9x9 (Imperial Contest) open again. I think this variant should be open to play because it is a historical reconstruction of the game, many great players played it (Casshern, Nath, Crust) and the balance is calculated to be in favour of the whites, which based on my experience means the games are intresting, dynamic and fun to play.
2023-11-22 18:08:51 Hagbard: opened
2023-11-22 18:10:18 Draganov: Thanks, I will open 10 games and I will also challenge some players who are playing Sea Battle variants.
2023-11-23 10:58:31 Hagbard: About national champions 2023: http://aagenielsen.dk/hnefataflforum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&p=1778#p1778
2023-11-23 17:58:46 Hagbard: @Casshern, please beware! Games are about to time out.
2023-11-24 10:27:01 Hagbard: Finished tournaments: Sea battle tafl 11x11: #1 Draganov, #2 Rosk, #3 Masterluke Daldos 3x14: #1 Xerxes, #2 Potapych, #3 Jrton80 Simple Tafl 11x11: #1 Potapych, #2 Jrton80, #3 Masterluke Sea battle tafl 13x13 (Nielsen): #1 Draganov, #2 Potapych, #3 Brave-frog Daldos 3x12: #1 Rosk, #2 Xerxes, #3 Potapych Tawlbwrdd Lewis cross 11x11: Draganov: 4 pt., Rosk: 1 pt., Dimetr: 1 pt., Copenhagen Hnefatafl 11x11: #1 Draganov, #2 Alex hnefatafl, #3 Potapych and Jrton80 Saami Sahkku 3x15 (Kaafjord): #1 Draganov and Holidayinnes, #3 Rosk Tawlbwrdd Lewis cross-w 11x11: #1 Draganov, #2 Alex hnefatafl, #3 Dimetr Tyr 11x11: #1 Draganov, #2 Masterluke, #3 Jrton80 Sea battle-2526 9x9: #1 Alex hnefatafl, #2 Colophonius, #3 Tonythebook Daldos 3x14: #1 Holidayinnes, #2 Colophonius, #3 Draganov and Tengrikut Tawlbwrdd Lewis cross-w 11x11: #1 Alex hnefatafl, #2 Draganov, #3 Dimetr and Potapych Daldos 3x12: #1 Rosk, #2 Potapych, #3 Draganov Sea battle circle 9x9: #1 Draganov, #2 Colophonius, #3 Tonythebook Berserk Hnefatafl 11x11: #1 Draganov, #2 Jrton80, #3 Colophonius Saami Daabloe 11x9: #1 Rosk, #2 Jrton80, #3 Brave-frog Daldos 3x14: #1 Rosk, #2 Holidayinnes and Colophonius Tawlbwrdd Lewis cross-w 11x11: #1 Alex hnefatafl, #2 Potapych, #3 Tonythebook Sea battle tafl-w 11x11: #1 Alex hnefatafl, #2 Draganov, #3 Tonythebook Total Hnefatafl 11x11: #1 Draganov, #2 Jrton80 and Arcrue Saami Sahkku 3x15 (Kaafjord): #1 Potapych, #2 Draganov, #3 Colophonius and Xerxes Sea battle tafl-w 11x11: Alex hnefatafl: 4 pt., Draganov: 2 pt., Tonythebook: 0 pt., Historical Hnefatafl 7x7 (Irish Brandubh 2): #1 Colophonius, #2 Branan, #3 Docbullen Daldos 3x12: #1 Potapych and Xerxes, #3 Holidayinnes, Floki and Brave-frog Market Hnefatafl 9x9: #1 Draganov, #2 Rosk, #3 Tonythebook Daldos 3x16: #1 Holidayinnes, #2 Colophonius, #3 Potapych Hex 11x11: #1 Chaolaibhne and Paul7, #3 Colophonius Frisian Dablo 11x9: #1 Jrton80, #2 Brave-frog, #3 Konrad7890 Total Hnefatafl 11x11: #1 Draganov
2023-11-24 10:28:16 Hagbard: Total Hnefatafl 11x11: #1 Draganov, #2 Jrton80. #3 Arcrue Simple Tafl T cross-w 9x9: #1 Brave-frog, #2 Masterluke, #3 Tonythebook Saami Sahkku 3x15 (Kaafjord): #1 Potapych, #2 Holidayinnes, #3 Xerxes Saami Daabloe 11x9: #1 Rosk, #2 Jrton80, #3 Brave-frog Simple Tafl 5x5: #1 Brave-frog, #2 Potapych, #3 Rosk and Konrad7890 Daldos 3x12: #1 Holidayinnes and Rosk, #3 Floki Daldos 3x14: #1 Hagbard, #2 Xerxes, #3 Holidayinnes, Jrton80 and Rosk Sea battle-2526 9x9: #1 Masterluke and Brave-frog, #3 Biolog psihopat Market Hnefatafl 9x9: #1 Tonythebook, #2 Jrton80, #3 Themightyglider, Masterluke and Brave-frog Saami Sahkku 3x15 (Kaafjord): #1 Holidayinnes, #2 Draganov, Colophonius and Potapych Daldos 3x16: #1 Holidayinnes, #2 Floki, Brave-frog and Tengrikut Tawlbwrdd Lewis cross-w 11x11: #1 Jrton80, #2 Brave-frog, #3 Tonythebook Daldos 3x12: #1 Potapych, #2 Xerxes, #3 Arcrue
2023-11-24 15:28:59 Draganov: @Hagbard, could you help me to clarify how many different king types exist for Hnefatafl? As far as I know from my personal experience, we have: 1: Weak King (armed, captured from 2 sides) 2: Strong King (armed, captured from 4 sides) 3: Unarmed King or also known as Cargo Ship (unarmed, captured from 4 sides) 4: King as Hammer (captured from 4 sides, can participate in capturing when he is moving to capture another piece) 5: King as Anvil (captured from 4 sides, can participate in capturing only as the static piece) Are there any other types of king that has been tried during the years? Let's exclude from the example some unpopular types like King as Anvil or King as Hammer captured from 2 sides or unarmed cargo ship captured from 2 sides.
2023-11-24 15:58:27 Hagbard: I believe you sum it up nicely. As I've written somewhere, the weak king is described in the Linneus diary. A hundred years ago there was much confusion from translation errors and misunderstandings, and in desperate attempts to make the game work anyway, the other types of king were invented.
2023-11-24 21:58:51 Draganov: @Hagbard, I was exploring the game archive again and was thinking about some abandoned variants that might be worth to be revived. Last 2 years after my proposal, we successfully revived some great variants that were thought to be imbalanced. Some of these variants are Copenhagen 13x13, Copenhagen Bell and some Sea Battle variants. I think Imperial Contest and Tawlbwrdd Lewis diamond 11x11 are well-balanced. I also want to test a 17x17 variant called Alea Berserk 17x17 (Martens). So, Hagbard, could you unlock Alea Berserk 17x17 (Martens) too.
2023-11-24 22:40:05 Hagbard: unlocked
2023-11-25 12:43:19 Hagbard: Bartley, Millar and I discussed this theme many years ago, and came to the perception that - king captured from 2 sides means killing him. - king captured by surrounding from 4 sides means he's taken alive for ransom etc. Seen this way both 2- and 4-sides capture makes sense also for an Iron Age mind. As far as I know, 4-sides capture in the Iron Age has not been recognised. Whereas it's known that 2-sides capture was used for tafl 1732, probably echoing 1000 years of play.
2023-11-25 21:33:02 Draganov: @Hagbard, could you correct the short rule description for Alea Berserk 17x17 (Martens)? There is no throne in the variant and the Guards are actually Knights. However, the Knights can only capture when they jump over a piece. They cannot serve as an anvil in capturing. Could you also clarify if the king could flee to the edge after capturing like in the other berserk variants? I think it would be nice if he can. It will make the game deeper and more dynamic. BTW, from my first impression, this variant is really good and well-balanced.
2023-11-26 07:29:22 Hagbard: It's some years ago. Probably Luk remembers better the details of this variant.
2023-11-26 12:58:55 floki: @ Alex Hnefatafl : Congratulations Alex for the impressive exit fort against Casshern, looks like the crown will soon lay on your head !
2023-11-26 15:34:31 Hagbard: (Vinland: Alex Hnefatafl exits.)
2023-11-26 16:44:11 floki: @Alex: well not this year then...
2023-11-26 16:59:12 Draganov: Let's wait until all games are finished. In my calculation, Casshern, Alex and I still have chances to become the next world champion. At that moment, Alex and I both lost 4 games while Casshern lost 3 times. However, Casshern and I are playing the 2 remaining games. If I beat him twice he will have 5 loses and will be eliminated and Alex and I will have equal points. We both split against each other, so I think another match between us is the most reasonable end of the championship. If Casshern beat me twice, he will be clearly the winner. If Casshern and I split the points, then Casshern and Alex will have equal points but Casshern won 2 more games against Alex in the previous rounds.
2023-11-26 19:25:08 floki: Exciting ! it's a pity we can't follow the two remaining games
2023-11-26 20:46:15 Draganov: Yes but this is the best we can do in order to keep the integrity of the championship and prevent other people to suggest moves. However, I hope that one day we will be able to play tafl in real time online and could even stream the games over the internet with cameras switched on like in the modern chess tournaments. This will increase the popularity of the game. Imagine the two best players playing against each other and two former champions or top players commentating the games in an online stream video and hundreds of tafl fans around the world commenting the game in the chat. Of course, that sounds like a fantasy right now but who knows what will be in the future...
2023-11-26 22:48:57 Draganov: @All I opened some games in several different variants. If someone wants to play against me, please do not hesitate to join.
2023-11-27 03:15:55 Cacreal: For Copenhagen I would be happy to play a 5th round with the 4th round opponents if timing can be accelerated,, if Casshern is also eliminated, as currently he is the only one with one life left. If he does lose one or both remaining games them everyone is out
2023-11-28 09:13:07 Hagbard: NB! Tournament 637 Simple Tafl T cross-w 9x9 is another test of using quick-timing in a tournament. 15 minutes per move was apparently a bit too small for practical use, so now it's 30 minutes per move.
2023-11-28 09:23:43 Draganov: @Hagbard, Cacreal and I played 10 quick games and found out that the small time buffer is not enough to handle the night time. In my opinion, the best way is to keep the standard time buffer of 4 days like in tournaments and make the time increment 15 minutes. This will make players play faster and will prevent them from timing-out during night hours.
2023-11-28 09:29:18 Hagbard: It's technically easiest to control it by time-per-move. The hypothesis is that enough quick moves will give the night time.
2023-11-28 12:29:52 Hagbard: (A max. ratings update showed that Draganov has crossed the grandmaster threshold. So we have a World Championship Final between the two hnefatafl grandmasters!)
2023-11-28 13:39:20 Draganov: It is clear that Casshern and I are currently the top players (with Alex Hnefatafl and Cacreal very close behind plus OdinHimself who has been a top player for a long time). I almost equal Casshern's rating and now we are both GM title holders. I would be glad if we have a match between me and Casshern. Let me use this chat to make an official invitation to Casshern for a best-of-ten match. This will not be a world championship match but just a demonstration match between the two leading players. In case of equal results 5:5 both players are winners. After that we can comment the games. I think this is something that a tafl community is lacking. We lack more games between top players. For example, in chess the greates rivalry between Kasparov and Karpov produced about 200 games between them. Nowadays, in the time of Internet when everything is happening faster and easier, it is a shame that we have very few games between top players.
2023-11-28 13:40:03 Draganov: @Casshern, let make such a match happen and make it as a gift to the tafl community.
2023-11-29 19:46:00 Hagbard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tetTMSE2ghk
2023-11-30 08:47:07 Hagbard: (Vinland: all players eliminated. The winner is not known until the very last game finished.)
2023-11-30 16:24:42 Draganov: It is funny to see that Casshern and I have equal rating... both having 2120.
2023-11-30 22:48:25 Hagbard: You know these - but it is December. Det bli'r jul igen https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-ng4BZT35E
2023-12-01 12:50:21 floki: 2021...
2023-12-02 00:52:38 Hagbard: På loftet sidder nissen https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrjNWFjxGxI
2023-12-02 22:08:24 Hagbard: Lokes hule https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLPG7oykA6g
2023-12-03 23:03:57 Hagbard: Lad julen vare længe https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACW2QuKwa0Q
2023-12-04 19:05:04 Hagbard: (Vinland: all games finished.)
2023-12-04 21:07:06 Hagbard: This final game, all the way through last half of it I thought every time player A moved "Player A wins!" Then player B moved and I thought "Player B wins!" Like this it went on all the way.
2023-12-04 21:16:32 Draganov: It was a great game that is worth to be analyzed in deep. For me it was a difficult position to defend. I think about 5 moves before the end, Casshern managed to find a move that put me in a situation where I had only one good move. It was a difficult position and the first move that I was considering was losing. I was about to play it but decided to take a break and think little bit on the position and then I found the right move.
2023-12-04 21:52:45 Hagbard: Støvledans https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QJH3iPqLkw
2023-12-04 22:04:38 cacreal: Great final round to all participants in Copenhagen
2023-12-04 22:12:45 Draganov: @Hagbard, what is coming next? Alex and I both have equal points and split against each other. Are we going to play another round against each other or we are both winners?
2023-12-04 22:20:20 Hagbard: A fine 4th round!! The detail is for the umpire.
2023-12-05 09:19:59 Hagbard: The tournament outcome was discussed with the umpire and: The losses are: Draganov: 2 Alex hnefatafl: 2 Casshern: 2.5 Cacreal: 2.5 Comparison of Draganov and Alex Hnefatafl: Both have losses 2. They played two games against each other, and both won one game. However, Draganov won with 154 moves, and Alex Hnefatafl won with 172 moves. So Draganov won over Alex Hnefatafl. Comparison of Casshern and Cacreal: Both have losses 2.5 They played two games against each other, and both won one game. However, Casshern won with 48 moves, and Cacreal won with 67 moves. So Casshern won over Cacreal. That means we have the World Tafl Federation Champion 2023: Plamen Draganov ("Draganov") ! #2 Alex Hnefatafl #3 Casshern #4 Cacreal
2023-12-05 10:39:32 Hagbard: To all players and umpires of the World Championship tournament 2023, a thousand thank yous that you would participate 36 players, and especially this year being the 25 years website anniversary. Speaking for myself, I can say that it was very entertaining to follow the games! Congratulations to the winners Draganov, Casshern and Holidayinnes! The victories were hard-won and well-earned.
2023-12-05 22:51:53 Draganov: I am happy to win the championship especially on the 25th year of the website. This year, the championship was brutal and exhausting at least for me... I feel really tired after all hard battles. I want to thank all of the participants, the umpires and Aage Nielsen for the opportunity to play Hnefatafl on a world championship level. I also want to congratulate Casshern and Holidayinnes for winning the Historical and Race tournaments respectively. On the other hand, I think the format of the championship should be improved since it takes months to be completed and it is very exhausting for the top players. Maybe this year we will manage to find a working quick time control which will fasten the next world championship.
2023-12-05 22:56:34 Draganov: I also want to suggest to place all of the unknown and new players who completed at least 1 game before the championship but hadn't completed more than 10 games to be placed in a separate group and play against each other. After that the winner of the newcomer's group can proceed to the next round and join the other players who qualified for round 2.
2023-12-06 08:51:14 Hagbard: Long time ago https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0CvcD2ShVo
2023-12-06 10:36:24 Hagbard: yes the timing ... There's a list here of how long the tournament lasted through the years: http://aagenielsen.dk/hnefataflforum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4&p=1780#p1779 Actually the players were rather active this year. Average 20 days per round. The games we wait for have more than 100 moves. That is more than 5 moves per day. So along with life, work and family, every player still managed to in average 2-3 times every day all the way to analyze the board and make a move. I could think of a couple of parameters to tune a bit more: Time per move 8 hours -> 6 hours. Shorter time till "end game mode" starts where players have less and less time.
2023-12-06 12:22:40 Hagbard: The 7 "unknown" players made it smoothly through the tournament: Gingie339 and Ash made it to 1. round Cop. Ekve2 made it to 1. round Hist. Arcrue and Mrcrow made it to 2. round Cop. Fiji270 made it to 2. round Hist. Ailill made it to 2. round Cop., 2. round Hist. and 3. round Sea.
2023-12-06 13:07:29 floki: @ Draganov : Congratulations Plamen, you're unstoppable (~ unbeatable)! Vive le Roi ! Thumb up to Alex who nearly made it
2023-12-06 19:22:07 Skye: Draganov congratulations, I just saw you made it to NR 1
2023-12-06 20:12:02 Hagbard: Quick timing is a big problem. Compare fx. Los Angeles and Sofia. In Los Angeles leisure time after work 17 o'clock until 22 o'clock when time to turn in corresponds to Sofia 3 o'clock at night until 8 o'clock morning. In theory the two players will never meet live and can only exchange one move each per day. (Hat tip: inspired from Xerxes email)
2023-12-06 21:08:18 Hagbard: - I suppose that the x4 timing worked so well because players on different continents were very flexible and made it work -
2023-12-06 22:08:33 Hagbard: Endelig jul https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OwkJ9AFlMM
2023-12-07 21:57:10 Hagbard: Nordnorsk julesalme https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eF1Iv-uAVi0
2023-12-08 09:01:44 Hagbard: Players who can start tournaments: Brave-frog, Draganov, Jrton80, Potapych, Holidayinnes, Colophonius, Rosk, Xerxes, Tonythebook, Floki, Masterluke, Hagbard, Alex hnefatafl, Dimetr, Themightyglider, Cacreal, Tengrikut, Paul7, Arcrue, Skye, Casshern, Jilles, Konrad7890, Fraech, ChaolAibhne, Mihkkal.
2023-12-08 10:09:18 Hagbard: End of quickplay test. Cacreal and Hagbard are timed normally again.
2023-12-08 12:14:26 Cacreal: @hagbard - Las Vegas live tafl tournament in 2024 would be unbelievable or maybe in Europe as most players are closer. If 2100 is GM , what are IM, FM , NM , AM levels ?
2023-12-08 12:32:05 Hagbard: Finished tournaments: Historical Hnefatafl 11x11 (Welsh Tawlbwrdd-w): #1 Alex hnefatafl, #2 Jrton80, #3 Brave-frog and Arcrue Daldos 3x14: #1 Holidayinnes and Potapych, #3 Colophonius and Xerxes Frisian Dablo 11x9: #1 Holidayinnes and Rosk, #3 Jrton80 and Brave-frog Historical Hnefatafl 9x9 (Saami Tablut-w): #1 Draganov, #2 Alex hnefatafl and Dimetr Saami Sahkku 3x15 (Kaafjord): #1 Holidayinnes, #2 Colophonius, #3 Hagbard Simple Tafl-w 11x11: #1 Draganov, #2 Jrton80 and Paul7 Sea battle T circle 11x11: #1 Draganov, #2 Tonythebook, #3 Brave-frog Daldos 3x12: #1 Potapych, #2 Holidayinnes and Rosk Hex 11x11: #1 Holidayinnes, Chaolaibhne and Paul7 Historical Hnefatafl 7x7 (Irish Brandubh 2): #1 Irish raven, #2 Colophonius, Dimetr and Brave-frog Historical Hnefatafl 9x9 (Saami Tablut-w): #1 Alex hnefatafl, #2 Dimetr, #3 Brave-frog
2023-12-08 12:44:27 Hagbard: @cacreal - GM is 2200 or 2100+World Champion IM is 2000 or 1900+World Champion FM is 1800 CM is 1600 AM is 1400 A is < 1400 NM is National Master. Since ratings are based on a logarithmic formula (Elo), the groupings GM-IM etc. and the distance between groups appears to be sensible and looks right.
2023-12-08 13:11:56 Hagbard: ( - and average where everybody starts: 1500 )
2023-12-08 13:57:44 Hagbard: - and fast player symbol: The player has in average responded within an hour.
2023-12-08 22:39:36 Hagbard: Mit hjerte altid vanker https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lC5gHo03JM
2023-12-09 07:42:08 Hagbard: Start of a tournament: Invite for a new game. More variants, more opponents. At the bottom, opponent "Tournament".
2023-12-09 09:59:45 Hagbard: The WTF tourn. timing x4 was found by virtually running last years' games and see at which time parameter they stopped timing out. That was at 8 hours per move. But even that only works when even the most remote players move twice per day, morning and evening. Which very luckily they did, and therefore we avoided the many timeouts.
2023-12-09 22:59:51 Hagbard: Maria ging https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTndWoNENnI
2023-12-10 18:22:26 Hagbard: A very remote player with response time 24 hours would work with time-per-move 19 hours. Our only options are 2 hours (x1) or 4 hours (x2) per move. That means that very remote players would have to choose the x10 timing when they want 24 hours per move and real thinking time.
2023-12-10 21:33:24 Draganov: I think the top players don't have problems with the timing. Alex, Cacreal, I and the most of the new players are playing very fast. Players like Brave-frog, MasterLuke, Tonythebook, Jrton80, Floki are also very fast players. On the other hand, there are players who tend to have problems with the timing and they often timed-out. For example Sqaree and Luizz often time-out even x10 games. So, I think some players will time-out even if the timing is 3 days per move.
2023-12-11 09:48:24 Hagbard: Yes. Some players like to keep a slow pace. The remote player problem is special, though. Los Angeles is our most remote player location. Playing over such distance means that the two players have many hours and lots of thinking time to make a move in the evening, but also have to make a move in the morning with no thinking time just moments before rushing to work.
2023-12-11 10:55:45 Hagbard: Song for a winter's night https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRIlTvYp0ok
2023-12-11 22:45:00 Hagbard: Away in a manger https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjtYtBGrP6Y
2023-12-12 13:15:03 Hagbard: https://www.dr.dk/drtv/se/forsvundne-verdener-og-skjulte-skatte_-osebergskibet_259825
2023-12-12 22:57:48 Hagbard: Santa Claus is comin' to town https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OmLF21NWk0
2023-12-13 22:15:19 Hagbard: Bakske vol met stro https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlffCR8GAx0
2023-12-14 23:50:11 Hagbard: Shedrik shedrik https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QokENOgPI2A
2023-12-15 21:33:36 Hagbard: Starij rik minae https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIS_uAryBU8
2023-12-16 17:40:17 Hagbard: I think that our race games archive shows something: http://aagenielsen.dk/hnefataflforum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&p=1784#p1784
2023-12-16 20:24:40 Hagbard: Dobrij vechir tobi https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMgIbU_QKNE
2023-12-17 20:16:30 Draganov: @All, I have a question. I really want to help other players to improve and bring hnefatafl to a new level. That's why I started topics in the forum regarding tafl openings and strategy tips. I am also very actively playing in the weekly tournaments. I usually don't refuse challenges and play even against low-rated players. As a world champion, I want to be accessible and ready to accept every challenge. What I personally lacked is the opportunity to play top players regularly (except Alex with whom I played almost 200 games). My question is: do you find it beneficial to play regularly against me in tournaments? Do you have any ideas how my tafl skills could be of any use to the tafl community? For example, I could comment some games or continue share my strategy tips in the forum.
2023-12-17 22:16:23 Hagbard: Spi Isuse https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvJbUhTSJFw
2023-12-17 23:21:10 MasterLuke: @Hagbard: I noticed an error in the description below the game boards of the ongoing Tyr 11x11 Tournament. There is a sentence: 'If a throne: King captured by 4 and 3 around it.' Can you remove this because there is no throne in Tyr. It can create confusion for those who are not familiar with the Tyr rules. Thanks.
2023-12-18 10:54:03 Hagbard: ok
2023-12-18 19:02:42 Hagbard: Sho to za predivo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Esefgctc7_A
2023-12-19 22:33:41 Hagbard: Sho to za predivo, again https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhgFkb4Osh4
2023-12-20 07:50:49 Dimetr: Draganov! First of all - Congratulations! You are the champion again! Tafl is alivе, as long as you play here. You regularly play a lot, and testing new variants. So, continue share strategy tips in the forum, or comment some games, we will read it, with pleasure
2023-12-20 18:24:13 Hagbard: Kokatz kokatz https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5iNGo95OTs Byala hubava https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ByKeq5tLJok
2023-12-21 15:13:55 Hagbard: Player of the Year 2023. I'd propose that Potapych would be Player of the Year. He - played 1100 games this year - participated in all four lines of the World Champ. tourn. with good result - is on the top ten list for best players overall in all types of games - is on the top three of players winning the most tournaments.
2023-12-21 15:37:07 Draganov: I partly agree with the nominee of Potapych. Indeed, he was very active and made a huge progress. However, he won mostly race tournaments. I have another nominee for a player of the year- Brave-frog. In my opinion, he made the biggest progress. He started the year as a newbie and during the world championship he managed to reach the 3rd round in the historical tournament and won in the Copenhagen varriant against Garun19 and Luizz. He was active in practically all tafl tournaments and had good results. Moreover, he is actively involved in the Ukrainian-Russian war and still finds time and strength to play tafl.
2023-12-21 15:50:41 Hagbard: ( - and Draganov has extremely good results also, but already won the World Champ., so therefore other than the world champ. - )
2023-12-21 16:13:50 Hagbard: Midwinter today!
2023-12-21 17:31:45 Hagbard: Koleda https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eYF79pPbkk Katerino mome https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XuSxUXIM1Y
2023-12-21 20:27:08 xerxes: I agree with Plamen (@Draganov) - Brave-frog would be a very good choice.
2023-12-22 09:04:05 Hagbard: We could await more comments and decide after Christmas. Candidates now: Brave-frog and Potapych
2023-12-22 15:13:31 Hagbard: Today is 00:00:00 longer than yesterday, that's an improvement -
2023-12-22 17:12:34 Hagbard: Nazad nazad https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJVB7bv6uLU B'dni vecher https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FW8OWXi6ZU
2023-12-23 10:01:31 Hagbard: Rockin' around https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdnaPAJgAQI Hark the herald angels https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDPwNPAV6tA
2023-12-24 23:52:18 Draganov: @Hagbard, in my Sahkku game against Tonythebook, I played my last move and after that I had 2 pieces and the king against only one of my opponent's pieces. However, after he send me a message, I saw that my last move was skipped and now he has 1 piece and the king against only one of my pieces. Could you fix it or just lock the comment section for Sahkku because the bug always occurs when the chat is used.
2023-12-26 00:15:50 Thorkell: Where can I find the rules for "Total Hnefatafl"?
2023-12-26 10:59:34 Colophonius: I think it's a combination of the Copenhagen and the Berserk rules
2023-12-26 16:55:30 Draganov: Total Hnefatafl is a combination between Copenhagen, Fetlar and Berserk rules. It includes corner escape, exit forts and shieldwall like in Copenhagen. It also includes berserk capturing and the possibility the king to flee to the corner after capturing like in Berserk Hnefatafl. It also includes allowed repetition of moves that leads to draw as in Fetlar which means that draw forts are also possible. In general, I think Total Hnefatafl is the most dynamic and interesting variant since it requires the blacks to be careful until the end and the whites have chances at least for a draw to the end too.
2023-12-27 18:02:48 Colophonius: Any sea battle fans here, who would like to try a 7x7 variant? I don't know exactly how much change in the data is required to set up such a variant, but maybe we could have a test tournament in january. Aage has, of course, the last word here. :)
2023-12-29 14:54:23 Draganov: @Colophonius, I would like to try sea battle on 7x7 but I don't think it will be playable if we use the standard sea battle rules. With an unarmed cargo ship and captured from 4 sides and escape to the edge, the whites will be too strong. Maybe we could try with cargo ship moving only by 1 square per move. However, this variant is not a real sea battle but something else.
2023-12-29 20:07:34 Colophonius: Oh, I forgot to mention, that the cargo ship is captured by two enemy pieces and it's the circle setup to start with, because it gives black and white the most opening choices
2023-12-29 20:08:56 Colophonius: Like this it should work
2023-12-29 22:43:13 Draganov: Yes, maybe it will work but it is not a sea battle variant. It is closer to the historical variants with edge escape and king captured from 2 sides with the difference that the king (cargo ship) is unarmed.
2023-12-30 00:29:44 Colophonius: I'd say it's like 9x9 sea battle tafl, but the smaller board requires the king to be captured by two or black would be pretty chanceless having only eight pieces
2023-12-30 21:02:33 Hagbard: Player of the year 2023: I can also go for Brave-frog as well as Potapych. So that is 2.5 for Brave-frog, and #2 Potapych.
2023-12-30 21:26:42 Hagbard: Info: for the time being start of tournaments is limited to one tournament at a time per player, and the same tournament can only be startede again when earlier tournament games of the same variant are finished. - When a player is not on the tournaments invitations list, a new one can be started, that is after 7 days.
2023-12-30 23:13:09 Draganov: @Hagbard, could you please check my Sahkku game against Tonythebook and revert the last move. I wrote in the chat here that it had a bug that is caused by the chat input.
2023-12-31 10:21:28 Hagbard: Takes caution, time at earliest tomorrow -
2024-01-01 11:09:50 Hagbard: Happy New Year to all players, and thank you for your participation 2023! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VxLTuREsFE
2024-01-03 11:07:36 Hagbard: @draganov, now the position is the same as replay says
2024-01-03 14:54:41 Draganov: @Hagbard, thanks for fixing the position. Did you manage to find what caused the bug? Seems that when someone uses the chat short after opponent's move, it undos the last move. For example: Player A moved, then Player B commented in the chat and played a move. Then, the move of Player A is removed and the position and only the last move of Player B is kept.
2024-01-03 17:02:30 Hagbard: No I don't know why
2024-01-03 20:46:15 Skye: It is me (i will take the blame). I like tafl games, BUT, i dont like the game rules discriptions with some of the games (incomplete, and because of it confussion, well ... with me any way.) It is me i am sure. If possible be as complete as possible with the rules as shown below the games being played. Thanks
2024-01-03 21:02:09 Skye: I dont mind losing, but i hate it if its because i get surprised by the rules. (But like i said its me probably). If it it possible please state the (all) rules under the games. Thanks
2024-01-04 08:01:13 Hagbard: @skye, which rules do you miss?
2024-01-04 15:03:25 Draganov: @Skye, the rules are described in a dedicated page. I think it is not needed to list the rules in details below each game. I think you are probably complaining about the exit fort that was used by Nikolai Hristov against you. However, the exit fort as well as shield wall are very well described in the rule page. In my opinion, you just need to play more games in the Copenhagen variant to get used to its specific rules.
2024-01-06 06:00:30 Alex Hnefatafl: .
2024-01-06 08:34:30 Hagbard: - one tournament at a time per player is not much a limitation: if you very much want a second tournament started also, you can ask another player to do that.
2024-01-06 13:12:39 Skye: @Hagbard and Draganov. My mistake, i should have read the rules better, and should not have complained.
2024-01-07 15:41:49 Hagbard: https://www.dr.dk/nyheder/vejret/isnende-kulde-giver-imponerende-arktiske-faenomener-i-danmark
2024-01-10 10:24:07 Hagbard: Finished tournaments: Daldos 3x16: #1 Holidayinnes, #2 Jilles and Potapych Simple Tafl T cross-w 9x9: #1 Draganov, #2 Jilles and Hagbard Daldos 3x14: #1 Holidayinnes, #2 Potapych and Brave-frog Copenhagen T cross 11x11: #1 Draganov, #2 Jilles, #3 Tonythebook Tyr 11x11: #1 Draganov, #2 Brave-frog, #3 Jrton80 and Masterluke Saami Daabloe 11x9: #1 Mihkkal, #2 Rosk, #3 Jrton80 Saami Sahkku 3x15 (Kaafjord): #1 Holidayinnes, #2 Jilles, Colophonius and Rosk Sea battle circle 9x9: #1 Draganov, #2 Colophonius, #3 Tonythebook Market Hnefatafl-w 9x9: #1 Draganov, #2 Tonythebook and Masterluke Daldos 3x12: #1 Holidayinnes, #2 Xerxes, #3 Colophonius, Potapych and Rosk Total Hnefatafl 11x11: #1 Draganov, #2 Jrton80, #3 Fraech Tyr 15x15: #1 Jilles, #2 Holidayinnes, #3 Jrton80 Historical Hnefatafl 7x7 (Irish Brandubh 2): #1 Colophonius, #2 Paul7, #3 Tonythebook Berserk Hnefatafl 11x11: #1 Jrton80, #2 Tonythebook, #3 Fraech
2024-01-14 23:53:26 Hagbard: https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe/denmark-celebrates-king-frederik-x-and-queen-mary-taking-the-throne-20240114-p5ex7a.html
2024-01-15 00:02:36 Hagbard: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-01-15/danish-royal-proclamation-of-king-frederik-queen-mary-donaldson/103317420
2024-01-15 11:52:50 Hagbard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4D2cnh8dFm0
2024-01-17 08:18:45 Hagbard: I sne https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tetTMSE2ghk
2024-01-17 08:49:47 Hagbard: Det er hvidt https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbtSXzSuDEw
2024-01-17 08:57:07 Hagbard: Der er ingenting i verden https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eh7h0oyjy0c
2024-01-20 09:55:05 Hagbard: There has not been an Honorary Hnefatafl Master since Peter Kelly 2014 ten years ago. Presuming you can have such a title also when alive, I would now propose for Honorary Hnefatafl Masters: Tim Millar ("Crust"), Somerset, UK. Adam Bartley ("Adam"), Tønsberg, Norway. - the three of us worked together creating the "Copenhagen" variant, which is used very much. Luk Martens ("Masterluke"), Sint-Niklaas, Belgium. - Luk created all these wonderful game pieces sets, which in my opinion do wonders for the game experience.
2024-01-20 12:43:18 Draganov: I would say that all of you (Crust, Adam, Hagbard and MasterLuke) desirve the title Honorary Hnefatafl Master. All of you contributed a lot in the revival and development of the game so all of you should be given that title.
2024-01-20 14:27:46 xerxes: I agree with Plamen's four names, and would add Plamen (@Draganov) and Mario (@Casshern). As well as being excellent players, they all play with a helpful and constructive attitude.
2024-01-21 14:03:21 Colophonius: I agree! I like all of you veterans' supportive attitude
2024-01-21 16:44:22 Hagbard: King's Square https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6WYcPvmihw
2024-01-22 19:16:10 Hagbard: https://www.dr.dk/nyheder/indland/arkaeologer-finder-danmarks-aeldste-runer-paa-fyn
2024-01-24 11:07:13 Hagbard: Good old memories (photographer Elisabeth) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qr1IewCbbv0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPbDsOiXGT0
2024-01-26 09:52:50 Hagbard: To all players, do you have some good advice for a Basque tournament: http://aagenielsen.dk/hnefataflforum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&p=1789#p1789
2024-01-26 10:50:42 Draganov: Yes, I have some tips. First of all, they need to get used to the rules of the tafl game. The best way is to read the rules here on this website and play 2-3 quick games against each other just to see how the game is played. Then, they can print the boards on paper and use chess pawns plus a chess king as tafl pieces. They can play a couple of rounds in Swiss system in their club and write down the moves on paper like the chess players do or record the games with a smartphone camera and after that write down the moves on paper.
2024-02-02 14:50:37 Hagbard: Finished tournaments: Daldos 3x14: #1 Jilles, #2 Holidayinnes, #3 Potapych and Jrton80 Historical Hnefatafl 9x9: #1 Alex hnefatafl, #2 Mihkkal and Brave-frog Daldos 3x12: #1 Holidayinnes, Potapych and Brave-frog Copenhagen Hnefatafl 11x11: #1 Alex hnefatafl, #2 Draganov, #3 Jrton80 Sea battle tafl-w 11x11: #1 Tonythebook, #2 Brave-frog, #3 Nikolai hristov Historical Hnefatafl 7x7 (Irish Brandubh 2): #1 Paul7, #2 Colophonius, #3 Brave-frog Historical Hnefatafl 11x11 (Welsh Tawlbwrdd-w): #1 Alex hnefatafl, #2 Brave-frog, #3 Hagbard Daldos 3x16: #1 Potapych, #2 Holidayinnes and Jrton80 Brandubh 7x7 (Walker): #1 Colophonius and Themightyglider, #3 Brave-frog Tawlbwrdd Lewis cross-w 11x11: #1 Alex hnefatafl, #2 Paul7, #3 Jrton80, Hagbard and Brave-frog Copenhagen T cross 11x11: #1 Draganov, #2 Jrton80 and Hagbard Saami Sahkku 3x15 (Kaafjord): #1 Rosk, #2 Holidayinnes and Tonythebook Frisian Dablo 11x9: #1 Jrton80, #2 Brave-frog, #3 Rosk Historical Hnefatafl 9x9 (Saami Tablut-w): #1 Alex hnefatafl, #2 Sauron, #3 Mihkkal Copenhagen Hnefatafl Bell 11x11: #1 Draganov, #2 Fraech and Tonythebook Historical Hnefatafl 7x7 (Irish Brandubh 2): #1 Colophonius, #2 Themightyglider and Tonythebook Hex 11x11: #1 Brave-frog, #2 Mihkkal, #3 Tonythebook Daldos 3x14: #1 Holidayinnes, #2 Potapych, #3 Brave-frog
2024-02-03 11:09:04 Hagbard: Dimetr told me an hour ago that he's on his way to the big Larix board game festival which is in Moscow today and tomorrow! Last year Dimetr was #2 in Hnefatafl at this festival. Festival webpage here: http://festival-larix.ru/
2024-02-03 19:50:57 Hagbard: Dimetr tells that at Latrix this year they use the Tawlbwrdd Lewis cross-w 11x11 for the Hnefatafl part of the tournaments.
2024-02-03 20:20:59 Skye: Hagbard. I have sent you a few pictures of a tablut board and set i have made and also of a Brandubh board and set. (A new hobby, if i'm playing less its because i am busy making tafl or chess sets.)
2024-02-03 22:36:24 Hagbard: @Skye, thank you, beautiful tafl sets! They're in the gallery. @Dimetr, thank you for the photo series from today's board games day. It's in the gallery. I recognise the #1, #2 and #3 winners from last year, they compete again.
2024-02-03 23:34:42 Draganov: @Hagbard, why all of the time buffers in the tournament games were restored to 6 days?
2024-02-03 23:46:14 Hagbard: Alex Hnefatafl asked for time to be added to his game against you, and I took the opportunity to solve a problem which has arised for some time. The tournament games are now timed x5 instead of x2. Casshern said that in earlier times (when timing was more generous) he never happened to time out. But now it happened to him very often. The x2 was too problematic to a geographically distant group of players. x5 should work for them, too.
2024-02-04 06:49:11 Draganov: That's not right since it was a tournament game and he previously used up his time buffer.
2024-02-04 06:55:47 Draganov: Maybe we need to increase the time buffer for future tournaments to 6 days. However, I will leave this game to time out as a protest.
2024-02-04 16:11:03 floki: I go along with Draganov's protest. My thought is to evacuating this time buffer business, all games should be set X2, single and tournaments or X10 (not rated). I can't see why Alex and Casshern are complaining about time buffer. As top players they first, should be able to handle many games at a time and second, to enter a tournament is a commitment, time difference works both ways ! After all loosing a game is not a big deal, is it ? Maybe for tournaments we should consider the world championshio format ie group of 3 players resulting 4 games for each player.
2024-02-04 16:18:35 Hagbard: The case is real. It is simply not possible for a remote player fx. in Los Angeles to use an x2 timing against a European.
2024-02-04 16:51:34 floki: @Hagbard : no problemo, I respect the rules, I am just saying that it is possible for an European to play a X2 game against an Angelino
2024-02-04 19:09:59 Draganov: The time difference between Russia (Samara town) and Bulgaria is just 1 hour. Alex was just not as active as he used to be and ran out of time. However, he received 6 days additional time as a gift.
2024-02-04 19:18:02 Hagbard: Yes I see - But a change in timing works better generally for all time zones. - And six days are just a consequence of x5.
2024-02-04 21:49:53 Hagbard: Dimetr won the Larix tournament this year!
2024-02-05 09:11:56 Dimetr: Hagbard, thank you! It was only 6 person in tournament, this year, and we played 12 games Lewis Cross - W (11*11), round. Time limit: 10 minutes for game, for each player (20 minutes together). We noticed some White's advantage, in fast play ( in contrast to the calm game at the World Cup, with black advantage). Take a look at our group photo, in the gallery. To my left - is our friend Igor, he plays Copenhagen very well (in the Felhun app). And he took second place at Larix. I convinced him to register here. To my right - is Konstantin, an excellent Brandub player. At Larix we beat each other with white, they forced me to make mistakes with black, in limited time. So I lost two games out of 12. We also talked to strong Go players, many of them like Hnefatafl. We will meet and play, sometimes. So, I'll try to bring new players here)
2024-02-05 09:25:05 Hagbard: :)
2024-02-05 18:29:10 Dimetr: Sorry, I meant to say 10 games for each player in the tournament (not 12). About 60% of victories with white
2024-02-06 04:13:10 Alex Hnefatafl: .
2024-02-06 19:57:25 Skye: @Hagbard. I'm almost timing out (i don't like to time out) but if i am not mistaken it is a game i was invited to play, not a game i initiated, unless i am mistaken?
2024-02-06 20:09:33 Hagbard: Yes. When you make some moves, you can probably quickly get the hours back.
2024-02-10 13:54:22 Draganov: @Hagbard, can you clarify who is Ingvar. He played only 12 games (won 1 of them), has low rating but is mentioned as NM. Is he a Russian champion?
2024-02-10 14:36:53 Hagbard: Certainly. Dimetr was at the Larix festival the whole weekend, and "Ingvar" was there, too. Alias Igor Sviridov, winner of Larix 2022 and #2 this weekend. Like UK had an annual national Hnefatafl tournament for many years, the Larix festival is in effect a Russian annual national Hnefatafl tournament.
2024-02-11 19:46:35 Dimetr: Igor plays Tafl well, I think he will quickly gain experience and play at a high level. I'm afraid of him! Let's wish him good luck!
2024-02-18 11:39:21 Hagbard: New in gallery: Photo series from the board game day yesterday. The Welsh Tawlbwrdd-w 11x11 was used.
2024-02-18 17:46:32 Draganov: @Hagbard, do you know what happened with Alex Hnefatafl? He disappeared and timed out all of his games? I hope he is all right.
2024-02-18 17:48:20 Draganov: I also would like to welcome the new players from South Africa who joined the site. It will be good if you introduce yourselves in the chat.
2024-02-18 18:39:55 Hagbard: No, I suppose he takes some pauses sometimes, it's normal. You have a picture on your chess page, is it ok to link to it from the world champions list?
2024-02-18 20:24:13 Draganov: Yes, it is ok to link my pictures. I will send you some more photos of me. I have photos with OdinHimself and with my son in front of the Hnefatafl board that OdinHimself gave me as a gift when I won the world championship in 2021.
2024-02-18 20:29:01 Draganov: I am also preparing an article about the ancient game called 'Five lines' or 'Pente Grammai' as it was known in the past. I think it might be the bridge between Hnefatafl and race games like Daldos
2024-02-18 21:19:09 Hagbard: ok
2024-02-20 22:41:11 Draganov: @Hagbard, could you unlock Alea Berserk 17x17 (Martens). Last year I played 8 games in it (winning all of them). So, I think it is a great variant which might be well-balanced. I want to test it again. It will be good if we have a tournament in it and see how other players will play against each other. I hope to test it against some strong players like Dimetr, Jilles and Potapych too.
2024-02-21 08:49:28 Hagbard: Opened. Could be a challenge to white, as the balance is at the moment measured to -1.94
2024-02-21 08:50:55 Hagbard: I found a radio interview with Peter Kelly 18.8.2008: https://theworld.org/person/peter-kelly
2024-02-21 09:28:49 Hagbard: - as for a tournament, you're on the starters' list -
2024-02-21 12:16:01 Draganov: I played 8 games in Alea Berserk 17x17 (Martens) and I remmeber that I was more struggling with the black pieces. I will invite some players to play some games. Then, I will open a tournament because I think it will be good to see this variant when two low-rated players are playing against each other.
2024-02-21 12:49:39 Draganov: @Hagbard, could you also create a section in the invite page, in which some imbalanced variants to be always unlocked. I would like to play several variants that are measured to be imbalanced but I think they could be good.
2024-02-21 13:05:18 Draganov: It will be great if we have the following variants visible in the imbalanced variants section: Alea Berserk 17x17 (Martens) Old Hnefatafl 9x9 Copenhagen Lewis cross 11x11 Copenhagen T cross 11x11 Tawlbwrdd Lewis diamond 11x11 Tyr 9x9 Sea battle square 9x9 Sea battle Lewis diamond 11x11 Sea battle-2542 9x9 Sea battle 9x9 (Imperial Contest) All of these variants seems to be good to me. I am open to play them with both colors against everyone.
2024-02-22 13:33:28 Hagbard: done
2024-02-22 14:08:52 Draganov: Thank you Hagbard for making these possible imbalanced variants available for testing. I think Alea Berserk 17x17 (Martens) was measured to be imbalanced and in favour of the blacks because in the past the knights were not able to capture. However, now the K (knights) are real beasts. They are IMMORTAL and ARMED. It is really challenging to fight against such powerful pieces. However, because the king is captured from 2 sides and the blacks have so many pieces, the variant seems well-balanced to me.
2024-02-22 16:42:49 Colophonius: I support the idea of an Alea Berserk 17x17 tournament between non-worldchampions :D But the rules need to be updated, at least the movement and capturing of the different pieces.
2024-02-23 08:29:24 Hagbard: NB. The large forum is opened for new registering for a while.
2024-02-28 10:31:12 Draganov: @Hagbard, are the unrated games calculated in the balance measurement or only rated games are included?
2024-02-28 10:51:03 Hagbard: They are.
2024-02-29 22:18:09 Skye: @Draganov: excuse me for not playing, to busy.
2024-03-02 12:31:05 Hagbard: Finished tournaments: Copenhagen Hnefatafl 11x11: #1 Draganov, #2 Alex hnefatafl, #3 Jrton80 and Tonythebook Saami Daabloe 11x9: #1 Holidayinnes, #2 Rosk, #3 Mihkkal Daldos 3x12: #1 Holidayinnes, #2 Colophonius and Hagbard Total Hnefatafl 11x11: #1 Draganov, #2 Jrton80, #3 Hagbard Historical Hnefatafl 7x7: #1 Colophonius, #2 Brave-frog, #3 Themightyglider Tawlbwrdd Lewis cross-w 11x11: #1 Dimetr, #2 Alex hnefatafl, #3 Hagbard Daldos 3x16: #1 Holidayinnes, #2 Colophonius and Brave-frog Berserk Hnefatafl 11x11: #1 Jrton80, #2 Fraech, #3 Nikolai hristov Saami Sahkku 3x15 (Kaafjord): #1 Potapych and Hagbard, #3 Rosk
2024-03-04 14:10:34 Hagbard: https://www.dr.dk/nyheder/vejret/nordlys-over-danmark-se-billederne-her
2024-03-04 20:16:23 Skye: I just noticed that i went from CM back to AM. I am not really troubled by this (i thought CM was a bit high anyway). But, could someone explane how all this goes about / works? Thanks.
2024-03-05 07:21:58 Hagbard: It's just a recalculation. Sometimes numbers are calculated again from small changes in game balances. Max. rating was found to 1589, which is anyway very close to CM threshold 1600.
2024-03-05 14:19:45 Hagbard: University: #1 Atlirom #2 Atlityl #3 Atliian, Atliben and Atlimad
2024-03-07 17:21:15 Hagbard: Når vinteren rinder https://www.youtube.com/shorts/jJcCKjzoVDk
2024-03-07 18:10:54 Hagbard: Den kedsom vinter https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MHvJMKCKkk
2024-03-08 21:41:19 Hagbard: I Kongens Have https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWx9Z7dV6Zg
2024-03-09 11:41:22 Hagbard: University: #1 Atlityl #2 Atliseb #3 Atliben
2024-03-09 16:35:58 Hagbard: Hilsen til forårssolen https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xX-ipGURDgQ
2024-03-10 08:40:13 Hagbard: Forår igen https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfYg99Vds58
2024-03-11 07:39:29 Hagbard: Kom igen https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0NB5FGBuhs
2024-03-11 08:06:49 Hagbard: https://nyheder.tv2.dk/lokalt/2024-03-10-hoejsaeson-for-nordlys-er-indledt-se-de-flotte-billeder
2024-03-11 11:46:14 Draganov: @Hagbard, could you add some time in the time buffer of Jrton80 in our Alea Berserk game? We are testing the variant and reached an interesting position but his remaining time is reduced.
2024-03-11 12:22:40 Hagbard: x2 -> x5
2024-03-11 14:37:47 Hagbard: https://www.rumrejsen2023.dk/
2024-03-12 07:57:23 Hagbard: Forårsdag https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnspQ12-qyc
2024-03-12 08:18:56 Hagbard: Splashdown from space 9:50 UTC.
2024-03-12 08:40:10 Hagbard: (Since yesterday Danish TV reports 24 hours live nonstop from the event.)
2024-03-12 10:48:54 Hagbard: Splash!
2024-03-12 11:47:41 Hagbard: https://www.dr.dk/nyheder/seneste/andreas-mogensen-er-landet-paa-jorden-efter-seks-maaneder-i-rummet
2024-03-13 07:10:13 Hagbard: Vårvise https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGAsa8KIQjI
2024-03-22 10:37:31 Clark94: Are there any good variants with hostile attacker base camps? A long time ago I had an app on my phone that would treat all starting positins for the attackers the same as the throne. (No re-entering and hostile). It was very aggressive, however only playing against the computer I am not sure about the balance. I’ve heard of Foteviken Tablut (9x9 t-cross , edge escape , white moves first , strong armed king , with attacker base camps being unable to be re-entered and blocking movement) but have not played it myself.
2024-03-22 10:48:00 Hagbard: John Ashton, USA, set up such a variant: http://aagenielsen.dk/ashton_rules.php When we tested it, however, the game balance was -5.26, that is extremely favourite to attackers.
2024-03-22 11:33:39 Hagbard: Plan: In a month or so registering for a test of a modified WTF tourn. format: http://aagenielsen.dk/hnefataflforum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&p=1804#p1804 Tafl test with Tablut. Race Games test with Daldos12 + Daldos16. Timing x2 to make the test quicker.
2024-03-24 19:51:55 Skye: I remember Dtaganov calling on players to play / accept games from new players (i think a good idea). I have accepted al few games with new players but a lot dont play so i will stop playing / accepting games from new players for a while.
2024-03-26 22:42:40 Skye: Just an observation: you (i) make an open invitation,someone accepts the game but then does not play. I know there is still time in the time buffer but i find it stranger (why wait so long / accept and then wait 2 days for your first move). Probably just me...
2024-03-26 22:49:10 Skye: I dont want to call names just now, but i think if you accept a game and dont play (not even 1 move) you should lose some points. I think now the rule is: if both players have made 2 moves each. I might be over reacting but, i invite, some accepts and then doesnt play. Not nice. Takes away the fun i have in the game.
2024-03-27 07:15:57 Hagbard: I agree with Draganov on this. Thank you for welcoming new names and accepting their game invitations! A new name might be a new future player, or as it regularly happens, a new name could also be a casual passer-by who leaves the game.
2024-03-29 07:14:10 Hagbard: Sorrig og https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6H5G_Vrl-bs
2024-04-02 13:40:03 oliv855n: hvor kan man spille det
2024-04-02 13:40:42 Hagbard: Klik på "Play against humans". Man kan ikke spille mod computeren, kun mod andre spillere.
2024-04-04 09:44:45 Hagbard: Finished tournaments: Copenhagen Hnefatafl Bell 11x11: #1 Draganov, #2 Jilles, #3 Jrton80 Daldos 3x14: #1 Potapych, #2 Tonythebook, Nikolai hristov and Rosk Copenhagen Hnefatafl 11x11: #1 Alex hnefatafl, #2 Nikolai hristov, #3 Brave-frog and Axelrook Tyr 11x11: #1 Masterluke and Jrton80, #3 Brave-frog Historical Hnefatafl 7x7 (Irish Brandubh 2): #1 Colophonius, #2 Brave-frog, #3 Axelrook Daldos 3x16: #1 Holidayinnes, #2 Potapych, #3 Brave-frog Hex 11x11: #1 Brave-frog, #2 Potapych, #3 Tonythebook Historical Hnefatafl 11x11 (Welsh Tawlbwrdd-w): #1 Alex hnefatafl, #2 Tonythebook, #3 Axelrook Daldos 3x12: #1 Hagbard, #2 Nikolai hristov, #3 Holidayinnes and Rosk Historical Hnefatafl 9x9 (Saami Tablut-w): #1 Alex hnefatafl, #2 Jrton80, Brave-frog and Axelrook Saami Sahkku 3x15 (Kaafjord): #1 Hagbard, #2 Holidayinnes and Rosk Market Hnefatafl-w 9x9: #1 Jilles, #2 Hagbard and Tonythebook
2024-04-06 20:56:28 Hagbard: tonythebook has an idea about points: http://aagenielsen.dk/hnefataflforum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&p=1809#p1809
2024-04-07 09:19:56 Hagbard: https://www.sn.dk/roskilde-kommune/havhingsten-er-slidt-og-skal-snart-have-en-efterfoelger/
2024-04-07 11:33:21 Hagbard: With 18 players like last year, the suggested race games WTF tournament format would for each player be 136 games. With 5x timing, since there are so many games. Would it be too much? I think that I could do it. With a lot of practise, the moves come easily.
2024-04-07 11:49:29 Hagbard: 4 rounds of each 34 games.
2024-04-07 19:33:06 Skye: @Hagbard. Are the rules stated below the Market Hnefatafl right or should it just be the first line (captured from 2 sides). I don't see a throne and one of my black pawns could stand there, i was a bit worried but it worked out in the end. Thanks for having a look.
2024-04-07 19:45:17 Hagbard: Corrected
2024-04-07 19:48:18 Skye: @Hagbard you're quick. Thanks for having a look.
2024-04-07 20:46:30 Draganov: I think race games must be played quickly. I have watched many backgammon players playing against each other (although I am not keen on backgammon and rarely play it) and never seen a player thinking more than 5 seconds per move. Never seen such a player from hundreds of backgammon players I have ever seen in my life. All of them were playing immediately in just 2-3 seconds per move. Why Sahkku or Daldos should be different after they are even simpler than backgammon. So. 34 games should be no problem for a race game players. However, if someone plays the race games with the same attitude like playing chess, it will be a problem to handle 34 games.
2024-04-07 23:02:26 xerxes: I agree with Plamen that race games should be played quickly. I for one do not take much time over a Daldos move (I've also played a fair bit of backgammon) but the games take a long time if the opponent is not online when the move is made. As an experiment perhaps we could set up a tournament of 4 or 5 interested players each playing each other in two games (white and black), so 6/8 games per player. All the games to be finished within one hour, games not finished within the hour are awarded to the player who has taken the least time for his moves in that game. (The problem might be finding a time convenient for all those players to be online together).
2024-04-08 09:24:34 Hagbard: The normal race games tournaments have for a long time used the 5x timing. Still they've run quickly, thanks to the players' attitude. The defining constraint on the timing, is that two extremely distant players might never be able to meet online, except for the weekends. This is covered by the 5x. The thought for the WTF championship race tournament is Formula One points. (hat tip tonythebook) Noone is eliminated. Four rounds: Daldos14, Daldos16, Sahkku, Sahkku. Since noone is eliminated, Round 2 Daldos16 could start even if some Round 1 Daldos14 games are not finished. Likewise Round 4 Sahkku after Round 3 Sahkku. Only Round 3 Sahkku would preferably wait till Round 2 Daldos16 finished, because of the change of rules. I can hear that 34 games per round is not frightening ...
2024-04-08 15:50:11 Hagbard: Idea: The current Saami Sahkku 3x15 (Kaafjord) (2024-04-05, tourn. 729) has now 7 players and 4 days for more to join. If this tournament 729 is followed by a Daldos16 tournament, then we can for fun add them together by the Formula One points system. As in the Formula One races, if you want the good score, you should join both the tournaments.
2024-04-13 20:34:13 Skye: New pieces on the Brandubh game? I havevn't played it for a while so in might be be mistaken. I like them, tumbs up
2024-04-14 18:30:05 Colophonius: It's another Brandubh-variant, played by the rules of Damian Walker. Therefore it's new design
2024-04-14 19:57:14 Skye: Ahh, top they look nice.
2024-04-14 21:18:47 Hagbard: A comment on race game tournament: http://aagenielsen.dk/hnefataflforum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4&p=1811#p1811
2024-04-15 07:29:24 Hagbard: Formula One test round 2 started, tourn. 735 Daldos16
2024-04-16 21:30:48 Draganov: @Hagbard, the game balance of Copenhagen is mentioned to be (16 ba 1.3). Could you explain what does '16 ba' mean?
2024-04-17 08:19:03 Hagbard: Variant number 16 balance 1.3
2024-04-17 11:48:26 Draganov: @Hagbard, thanks for the clarification. Could you also check if the repetition rule works in Total Hnefatafl because the game between Thorfin and Cacreal is still ongoing despite threefold repetition.
2024-04-17 16:35:18 Hagbard: It works, in the sense that repetition does not give a win to a player. But the two players have to both click the Draw-button. Earlier the program stopped the game and gave both players a Draw. But some situations showed up where the program should not do that, therefore the players must do it manually.
2024-04-17 17:06:19 Draganov: What happens if one of the players refuse to do it and the other timeouts?
2024-04-17 17:11:20 Hagbard: Then only I can do it manually, I'm afraid
2024-04-19 12:53:38 Colophonius: Congrats to Holidayinnes for the 4600th game!
2024-04-19 19:23:55 Hagbard: Du kom https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9fWyXV4gVw Op al den ting https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmQV-unQARg Må din vej https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0r62JoM8VM Lyse nætter https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4NXA_69GVo
2024-04-19 19:51:44 xerxes: Yes - congrats to Holidayinnes. I expect he has won most of them too !
2024-04-19 20:40:30 cacreal: Thorfin vs cacreal the repetition was stopped and @hagbard you manually made it a draw? I thought this was a viking game and not a Draganov political forum. Also it seemed like I was a IM and now am not. Did I miss something else on a message board? Draganov refused my challenge in Copenhagen so I joined the total tournament to play a game against him, Thanks for the games. Skol
2024-04-19 20:54:29 Hagbard: Yes I called the draw. Draganov invented the rules, and the game did reach the eternal repetition we saw so often in the Fetlar. The IM/FM is just because of a game balance adjust.
2024-04-19 21:03:59 Draganov: Cacreal, the Total Hnefatafl allows repetition and if you repeat the position three times, it finishes as a draw. Respect the rules of the variant, please. I am more concerned about Total Hnefatafl because I proposed this variant and I am advocating for allowing repetition leading to draw. I do believe that this is one of the few ways to make the game balanced and to give the whites equal chance even on top level playing. I refused to play against you in Copenhagen because I am bored of playing Copenhagen. I haven't been playing Copenhagen recently except 2 games against Herjan because I really like his playing style and chatting with him. I am still not sure if I am going to continue playing Copenhagen. I will probably join the next world championship but only because it is my duty as a champion to defend the title. I am focused on exploring new variants especially those that have been considered imbalanced. However, I would play Copenhagen again only in matches that I consider interesting and motivating for me (the problem of being a champion is the lack of motivation).
2024-04-19 21:18:48 Draganov: I am open to play matches of 10 Copenhagen games only against Casshern and Herjan. I tried to challenge Plantagenet and Nath but they both refused. Nath seems to be done with tafl and Plantagenet is willing to play only in his own variant which is still in progress. Maybe Alex Hnefatafl and I should play a match because he is in good shape and came close to becoming a champion. However, we played 200 games against each other and I am not interested to play him again. However, I will challenge him if the tafl community wants to see such a match again. I consider you as a very strong player, potentially the next world champ. Probably we can make something interesting. What about triple duel... Cacreal vs Draganov vs Alex Hnefatafl. Each one of us plays 10 games against the other two players. The winner is the player with the most points gained from the 20 games. What do you think about such a 3 players tournament?
2024-04-19 21:23:41 Draganov: Another interesting match for me would be a 'strong king challenge'. 10 games of Fetlar, 10 games of Old Hnefatafl, 10 games of Copenhagen, 10 games of Copenhagen Bell, 10 games of Total Hnefatafl. I am open to play such a marathon against everyone.
2024-04-21 08:03:51 Hagbard: F1 points test round 1 Sahkku: #1 25 points: Holidayinnes (22) #2 18 points: Tonythebook (16), Hagbard (16), Colophonius (16) #5 10 points: Rosk (15), Draganov (15) #7 6 points: Potapych (13) #8 4 points: Nikolai hristov (12), Cacreal (12), Jilles (12) > #10 0 points: Xerxes (11), Brave-frog (9), Jrton80 (9), Thorfin (4)
2024-04-27 18:05:27 Hagbard: Now that almost all top players are in the Daldos14, too, this could be added to the F1 test.
2024-04-27 22:49:10 Hagbard: Forårsdag https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyHuc7VgwtY
2024-04-27 23:30:30 Hagbard: Forår https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yc7b_FSeNa4
2024-04-29 08:08:30 Hagbard: The Formula One way of giving points is interesting! It's all about position. As in the cars' race it's a fight for every centimeter (every won game), not for the centimeter/game, but to get ahead of other players. The three front runners of any race are strongly favoured. And all the way through the field one more won game can mean many extra points. Or if you're already much ahead, one more won game can mean nothing.
2024-04-29 13:47:12 xerxes: @Hagbard. You are right re the F1 points. The potential disadvantage for us is that we are only having 4 rounds instead of the 23 in F1. That gives a big advantage to the winners of each round given that they get 7 more points than the player finishing second.
2024-04-29 18:48:11 Hagbard: @xerxes, that is true. But still the numbers so far make sense. I suspect that there is some mathematical explanation for that. I guess that: In Formula One races the drivers earn their start positions, and so they in each race especially compete against a handful of equally strong drivers. Whereas here in this tournament, everybody every time compete against everybody. And thus the winner in our tournament is more efficiently and quicker found; this is my theory.
2024-04-30 14:28:20 Hagbard: Races are still running so anything can happen, but the position is right now F1 points test sum Sahkku + Daldos16 + Daldos14: #1 61 points Holidayinnes (50) #2 53 points Hagbard (40) #3 37 points Jilles (51) #4 35 points Draganov (34) #5 32 points Rosk (36) #5 32 points Colophonius (34) #7 28 points Potapych (33) #7 28 points Tonythebook (29) #9 14 points Jrton80 (25) #10 10 points Xerxes (28) #11 4 points Brave-frog (20) #11 4 points Cacreal (13) #11 4 points Nikolai hristov (12) #14 0 points Herjan (4), Thorfin (4)
2024-05-02 08:57:00 Hagbard: Finished tournaments: Old Hnefatafl 11x11: #1 Draganov, #2 Jrton80, #3 Axelrook Saami Daabloe 11x9: #1 Holidayinnes, #2 Jrton80, #3 Rosk and Tonythebook Daldos 3x14: #1 Holidayinnes, #2 Xerxes, Tonythebook, Hagbard and Colophonius Brandubh 7x7 (Walker): #1 Colophonius, #2 Themightyglider, #3 Brave-frog Historical Hnefatafl 7x7 (Irish Brandubh 2): #1 Colophonius, #2 Brave-frog, #3 Themightyglider Tawlbwrdd Lewis cross-w 11x11: #1 Dimetr and Alex hnefatafl, #3 Jilles Daldos 3x16: #1 Jilles, #2 Potapych, #3 Xerxes and Nikolai hristov Frisian Dablo 11x9: #1 Holidayinnes, #2 Jrton80 and Brave-frog Hex 11x11: #1 Holidayinnes, #2 Potapych and Brave-frog Daldos 3x12: #1 Xerxes, #2 Jilles and Potapych Saami Sahkku 3x15 (Kaafjord): #1 Holidayinnes, #2 Tonythebook, Hagbard and Colophonius
2024-05-02 14:52:34 Hagbard: The current race games test is very instructive: Out of the seven top-three players from 2021-2023 six participate; only Bogd Khan is not there. And to that eight fine players more.
2024-05-03 20:59:43 Hagbard: Luk Martens sent a general set of Hnefatafl pieces, including even commanders, variegated men, knights and guards. The new set is now used for the Berserk Hnefatafl 11x11. Personally I like also the previous sets, which are used for other variants now. I'd ask you players if there's a wish to change also some other variants to the new set? (Except for the Simple Tafl, because this set is kind of American style. It is used by the American University twice a year, and it's my impression that they like the pieces very much.)
2024-05-03 21:41:14 Draganov: I think the new design has better contrast and the pieces are more visible. However, I think the players are used to the old design and it will take them some time to get used to the new one. So, my proposal is to use the new design in some less popular variants like Berserk, one weak-king variant like Tawlbwrdd Lewis Cross or Tawlbwrdd Lewis Diamond and see the reaction of the players. I also think that we can standardise the game pieces as well. My personal opinion is that the best-looking tafl pieces are those used in Welsh Tawlbwrdd and the second best piece set is for Fetlar. Regarding the board color, I like the red boards the most since it represents the bloody tafl game very well. Is it possible to make a design combination between the pieces from Welsh Tawlbwrdd (Bell setup) and a red colored board. Maybe adjust the piece colors little bit but keep their faces and looking.
2024-05-04 10:04:58 masterluke: @draganov and @hagbard: the new pieces look great on red board (current berserk setup). I suggest to use them also on Alea Berserk 19x19 because of the V-men, commanders and knights.
2024-05-04 11:35:30 Hagbard: Changed to new set in Berserk Hnefatafl 11x11 Alea Berserk 17x17 (Martens) Alea Berserk 19x19 (Bartley) Historical Hnefatafl 13x13 (modif. Parlett 2)
2024-05-04 12:22:14 Hagbard: Tusind stykker https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKePOqtRA20
2024-05-04 15:56:57 MasterLuke: Hello everyone As stated earlier, the new piece sets are intemplated in various game variants. @Hagbard: regarding the variant 'Tournament 746. Alea Berserk 17x17 (Martens)': something went wrong with the capital letters C, K, V and G on the pieces. Can you fix it? In the other variants Berskerk and Alea Berserk and Historical 13x13 they look OK. @all who wants to play the variant 'Tournament 746 - Alea Berserk 17x17 (Martens)' This is in fact a forerunner of the current 'Tyr' type of games. Draganov re-ignited the game and, I guess in conjunction with Hagbard, made some adjustements to the function of the Guard. He is unbeatable, BUT ALSO CAN ONLY CAPTURE like a Knight, so by jumping over an enemy piece. @Hagbard: maybe it's a good idea to explain this in a few words underneath the game board?
2024-05-04 17:56:55 Draganov: In Alea Berserk 17x17 (Martens) we have a new kind of a piece. It is an immortal guard that can capture like a knight by jumping over an enemy's piece. It can't be killed and it can't participate in capturing as a hammer or anvil. It can capture only by jumping over the piece. This new piece makes the variant great and funny to play. The whites have a lot of opportunities to organize their attacks and the blacks still have chances because they have double number of pieces and the king is captured from two sides. In my opinion, this variant is one of the deepest and very strategic. I played a long game against Jrton80 in which I found out a way to block his K piece and also the battle was for small advantages over the board for example controlling of a square (we played 10 moves just to take control over a key square). So, I strongly encourage everyone to give this variant a try and join the tournament.
2024-05-04 18:01:00 Hagbard: It's a long time ago, but I slightly remember that it was as if the guard pieces were mostly in the way, and so they were given up, as far as I remember. I have an email from Feb. 13th 2020 with a board diagram which seems to be the latest setup. This is implemented now.
2024-05-04 18:12:01 Hagbard: As far as I remember, the function of the guard pieces were to be immortal and unarmed.
2024-05-04 19:05:22 Draganov: I played dozen of games in this variant and found out that the K piece (both immortal and able to capture by jumping over a piece) is vital to keep the game well-balanced. There is no way a strong player to lose with the blacks are if the K piece is immortal but unarmed.
2024-05-04 19:06:47 Draganov: Even with immortal and jumping K the whites have difficulties to win the game
2024-05-04 19:25:05 Hagbard: At some point we measured the balance -2.0; but this setup with changed positions of V's has not been tried before.
2024-05-05 00:22:53 Antonius: I'm new here, so not quite sure how things work. If I want to accept a game or tournament invitation, how do I know what the time control is for the game before clicking the button to accept? I just want to make sure I don't commit to something and then find I'm not able to manage the time allowance. Thanks in advance.
2024-05-05 09:53:32 Hagbard: I found some old emails to throw light on the history of the Alea Berserk 17x17 (Martens). Luk Martens had for some time worked with inventing this game and testing it at home with friends: - The setup of pieces transferred to a 17x17 board from the historical known Alea Evangelii 19x19 setup. - Introducing commanders, variegated men and guards. - Using berserk moves. January 2020 we started testing it here. The guards were unarmed and immortal and were meant to protect the king. But the tests showed that they more helped the attackers, who could hide behind them near the king. But fun test games. In a test game, Adam Bartley in the very last move killed two men, turned over a V-man and captured the king in one turn! The balance was at that time measured to -2.0 The guards were given up, the variegated men were moved forward, and February 2020 the board was outlined which is tested now. From the Alea Berserk 17x17 (Martens), Luk Martens continued the development into the Tyr games.
2024-05-05 12:24:41 Hagbard: If Daldos12 is counted: Races are still running so anything can happen, but the position is right now F1 points test sum Sahkku + Daldos16 + Daldos14 + Daldos12: #1 80 points Holidayinnes (63) #2 65 points Jilles (64) #3 48 points Hagbard (45) #4 46 points Potapych (44) #5 45 points Draganov (49) #6 40 points Rosk (42) #7 32 points Xerxes (39) #8 24 points Brave-frog (33) #8 24 points Tonythebook (32) #10 23 points Cacreal (29) #11 22 points Colophonius (34) #12 18 points Jrton80 (31) #13 4 points Nikolai hristov (12) #14 0 points Herjan (5), Thorfin (4)
2024-05-05 14:21:06 Hagbard: Alea Berserk 17x17 (Martens) as it is set up now, is actually identical to Old Tyr-1 17x17, the variant which was tested right after. The latter is already well tested and the balance is +1.08. (Alea Berserk 17x17 (Martens) was the version with guards, and other places for commanders and variegated men.)
2024-05-05 15:16:57 Hagbard: Name change: Martens Alea -> Old Alea Old Tyr-1 -> Martens Alea
2024-05-05 18:03:31 Hagbard: At some point we did call this "Alea Berserk 17x17 (Martens 2)"
2024-05-05 21:21:23 Draganov: @Antonius, usually the time control is written next to the game variant. You can also see how much time you have in your time buffer by clicking on the enter button at the bottom of the page below your started games.
2024-05-05 21:23:03 Draganov: @Hagbard, I think Alea Berserk 17x17 (Martens) and Alea Berserk 15x15 (Martens) tournaments should be unrated since these variants will be probably too much imbalanced and in favor of the blacks.
2024-05-05 22:19:24 Hagbard: I listed them in the balance sheet now; 17x17 tested with 90 games, 15x15 with 80 games.
2024-05-06 09:28:11 Hagbard: Plan for Formula One test: The 5 tournaments added: 729 Sahkku 735 Daldos16 740 Daldos14 743 Daldos12 751 Sahkku This is also what I'd propose for the World Championship tournament. Sahkku twice, because it's the most complex of the variants. Personally I've wondered about the Daldos12 game. I think that I've had a fair chance in the other race variants, but I have problems with Daldos12. Perhaps one reason is: The small 12-board is unforgiving the same way the small tafl boards are. So that it's necessary to play extremely accurately all the time with absolutely no mistakes. However, it's obviously not randomness which makes the 12-board difficult, because the good players win. In my opinion, the Formula One points system has worked very well so far!
2024-05-06 13:11:43 masterluke: @dragonov: regarding the 'Martens' variants: on the contrary, they were quite extensively tested as Hagbard states below and they turned out to be very balanced. But in the progress of simplifying the game I left out the commanders and V-man and this resulted in the current Tyr variants. On the other hand, why shouldn't these variants exist alongside Tyr and all the other games? Maybe we should rename them, leaving out my name? 'Odin'??
2024-05-06 15:50:09 Hagbard: A reason for white's troubles in the version with guards, was that white had to convert some normal, armed men to be unarmed guards. A reason that the version without guards is more balanced, is that these men are now armed.
2024-05-07 13:54:17 Draganov: @All, I will take a break from playing tafl after finishing my ongoing games. I want to focus on some personal things and my project regarding the Hnefatafl tips and strategy as well as commenting the games of the world Hnefatafl champions. I will be here and will look how the other players are doing but I will not be actively playing.
2024-05-09 10:07:04 Hagbard: Races are still running so anything can happen, but the position is right now F1 points test sum Sahkku + Daldos16 + Daldos14 + Daldos12 + Sahkku: #1 98 points Holidayinnes (72) #2 73 points Jilles (67) #2 73 points Hagbard (56) #4 53 points Rosk (48) #5 52 points Potapych (47) #6 47 points Draganov (52) #7 45 points Xerxes (45) #8 34 points Tonythebook (36) #9 26 points Brave-frog (33) #10 23 points Cacreal (29) #11 22 points Colophonius (34) #11 22 points Jrton80 (32) #13 4 points Nikolai hristov (12) #14 0 points Herjan (5), Thorfin (4)
2024-05-10 11:28:20 Hagbard: Kun en jord https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuEZsVA8zsI
2024-05-10 15:55:41 Hagbard: F1 points test round 3 Daldos14: #1 25 points: Jilles (15) #2 18 points: Cacreal (14), Hagbard (14) #4 12 points: Holidayinnes (13), Draganov (13) #6 8 points: Potapych (11) #7 6 points: Xerxes (10), Rosk (10) #9 2 points: Brave-frog (9), Jrton80 (9) > #10 0 points: Colophonius (8), Tonythebook (6)
2024-05-11 09:25:15 Hagbard: Aurora https://www.dr.dk/nyheder/vejret/saa-vildt-ser-det-ud-se-nattens-nordlys-her
2024-05-12 10:31:01 Hagbard: Aurora https://frdb.dk/fredericia/missede-du-nattens-nordlys-over-fredericia-se-billederne-her-og-vaer-klar-naar-det-kommer-igen-om-lidt https://nyheder.tv2.dk/samfund/2024-05-11-fotograf-fangede-saerligt-oejeblik-se-videoen
2024-05-12 11:13:00 Hagbard: F1 points test round 4 Daldos12: #1 25 points: Holidayinnes (13) #2 18 points: Potapych (12) #3 15 points: Xerxes (11) #4 12 points: Jilles (10) #5 10 points: Jrton80 (9) #6 8 points: Tonythebook (8), Brave-frog (8) #8 4 points: Rosk (6) #9 2 points: Hagbard (4)
2024-05-12 19:13:54 MasterLuke: @Hagbard: I think something went wrong with the game 'Tournament 749, Alea Berserk 17x17 (Martens), 20 moves, I play white against Brave-frog. I must have pressed the resign-button by accident? There was absolutely no reason to resign after only 20 moves. Can you please re-activate the game at move 19, please?
2024-05-12 20:08:46 Hagbard: restored
2024-05-13 08:39:41 Hagbard: F1 points test round 2 Daldos16: #1 25 points: Draganov (19) #2 18 points: Jilles (17) #3 15 points: Holidayinnes (16) #4 12 points: Potapych (12), Jrton80 (12) #6 8 points: Xerxes (11), Rosk (11), Hagbard (11), Brave-frog (11) #10 2 points: Colophonius (10), Tonythebook (10) > #10 0 points: Herjan (5)
2024-05-13 10:50:16 Hagbard: Final result approaches, the position is right now F1 points test sum Sahkku + Daldos16 + Daldos14 + Daldos12 + Sahkku: #1 87 points Holidayinnes (73) #2 74 points Jilles (64) #3 71 points Hagbard (58) #4 59 points Potapych (58) #5 47 points Draganov (47) #6 46 points Rosk (53) #7 37 points Xerxes (51) #8 34 points Tonythebook (44) #9 30 points Jrton80 (43) #10 22 points Cacreal (26) #11 20 points Brave-frog (37) #12 16 points Colophonius (34) #13 4 points Nikolai hristov (12) #14 0 points Herjan (5), Thorfin (4)
2024-05-18 11:53:30 Hagbard: test it‘‘’'s
2024-05-18 11:57:36 Hagbard: test it‘’'s
2024-05-19 13:04:11 Hagbard: Sommersalme https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z45RruFz8SM
2024-05-19 14:59:05 Hagbard: F1 points test round 5 Sahkku: #1 25 points: Hagbard (13), Rosk (13) #3 15 points: Jilles (12) #4 12 points: Potapych (10) #5 10 points: Holidayinnes (9) #6 8 points: Xerxes (8), Tonythebook (8) #8 4 points: Jrton80 (5) #9 2 points: Brave-frog (3)
2024-05-19 15:46:30 Hagbard: Final result; the parantheses show number of won games F1 points test sum Sahkku + Daldos16 + Daldos14 + Daldos12 + Sahkku: #1 87 points Holidayinnes (73) #2 74 points Jilles (66) #3 71 points Hagbard (58) #4 56 points Potapych (58) #5 53 points Rosk (55) #6 47 points Draganov (47) #7 37 points Xerxes (51) #8 36 points Tonythebook (48) #9 28 points Jrton80 (43) #10 22 points Cacreal (26) #11 20 points Brave-frog (40) #11 20 points Colophonius (34) #13 4 points Nikolai hristov (12) #14 0 points Herjan (5), Thorfin (4)
2024-05-19 15:54:04 Hagbard: This was a full test, all players did 104 games. The player who wins this thing is truly a winner. All the strongest players took part in the test, and by winning Holidayinnes confirms that he is the World Champion in race games! The result by this method seems accurate. Perhaps the number of games can be reduced, fx. in a tournament with 20 players this way: Round 1 20 players Round 2 20 players Round 3 18 best players Round 4 16 best players Round 5 12 best players. Counting the simple way just numbers of wins would in this test tournament give nearly the same result. But the Formula One method of counting makes the results more distinct and adds to the fun, in my opinion - The tournament took 45 days.
2024-05-23 11:15:09 Hagbard: Luk Martens sent new Odin Hnefatafl pieces, and updated the rules sheet: http://aagenielsen.dk/tyr_odin_rules.pdf
2024-05-24 17:42:32 Hagbard: Jeg gik mig https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DTKYHTR7uQ
2024-05-24 21:53:07 Hagbard: A couple of comments on the WTF tournament format: http://aagenielsen.dk/hnefataflforum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4&p=1818#p1817
2024-05-26 20:27:02 Hagbard: Analysis of time length of the latest year's Copenhagen games: 869 games (x10 games ignored). The longest games were in time: 26 days, 20 days, 18 days, 18 days, 18 days, 17 days, 16 days, 16 days, 15 days, 15 days, 14 days, 14 days, 14 days, 13 days. 26 days and 4 rounds will take 104 days, which is close to what we saw in 2023. The timing mechanics is now changed slightly, so that "the long tail" of time should disappear. The change has only affect on games started since yesterday.
2024-05-26 20:47:37 Hagbard: - and it is checked, that with this timing Casshern still would not have timed out in any of the 2023-games.
2024-05-28 20:07:06 Draganov: Nice to see Alex and Cacreal playing a match of 10 games against each other. It is interesting to see how many games will the whites win.
2024-06-01 09:46:27 Hagbard: Finished tournaments: Total Hnefatafl 11x11: #1 Draganov and Cacreal, #3 Thorfin Simple Tafl-w 5x5: #1 Brave-frog, Themightyglider and Tonythebook Historical Hnefatafl 7x7 (Irish Brandubh 2): #1 Colophonius and Themightyglider, #3 Brave-frog and Tonythebook Tyr 11x11 (Alea Berserk Martens 2): #1 Brave-frog, #2 Masterluke, #3 Jrton80 Daldos 3x16: #1 Draganov, #2 Jilles, #3 Holidayinnes Tawlbwrdd Lewis diamond 11x11: #1 Draganov, #2 Dimetr and Potapych Berserk Hnefatafl 11x11: #1 Holidayinnes, #2 Jrton80, #3 Fraech Historical Hnefatafl 7x7 (Irish Brandubh 2): #1 Colophonius and Themightyglider, #3 Brave-frog Daldos 3x14: #1 Jilles, #2 Cacreal and Hagbard Historical Hnefatafl 9x9 (Saami Tablut-w): #1 Dimetr, #2 Jilles, #3 Brave-frog Daldos 3x12: #1 Holidayinnes, #2 Potapych, #3 Xerxes Copenhagen Hnefatafl Bell 11x11: #1 Cacreal, #2 Brave-frog and Axelrook Alea Berserk 19x19 (Bartley): #1 Masterluke, #2 Brave-frog, #3 Jrton80 Historical Hnefatafl 13x13 (modif. Parlett 2): #1 Jilles, #2 Masterluke, #3 Brave-frog Odin 17x17 (Alea Berserk Martens 1): #1 Jilles, #2 Jrton80, #3 Masterluke and Brave-frog Odin 15x15 (Alea Berserk Martens 1): #1 Jrton80, #2 Masterluke, #3 Brave-frog Saami Sahkku 3x15 (Kaafjord): #1 Hagbard and Rosk, #3 Jilles
2024-06-04 10:01:10 Hagbard: The tournament 752 Copenhagen Hnefatafl 11x11 functioned kind of as a WTF tourn. format test also: 10 players of all ratings took part, many very strong players. So this was also a test of a Round Robin format with 18 simultaneous Copenhagen games. An exhausting experience, I'm sure ... The Diagonal Format in comparison has 4 simultaneous games.
2024-06-05 01:49:49 ChaolAibhne: @Hagbard Would it be possible to have each player's rating on the "Play against humans" page linked directly to their rating history? I think that would be more convenient than having to go to the search page for the games archive and entering the player's name into the lookup facility there.
2024-06-05 10:18:54 Hagbard: I'll have a look at it next week
2024-06-09 19:49:53 Colophonius: It works, thank you Hagbard!
2024-06-09 20:05:47 Hagbard: ;)
2024-06-11 22:56:04 Dimetr: https://viewer.library.wales/6145926#?xywh=0%2C-1498%2C4158%2C8305&cv=14
2024-06-11 22:59:15 Dimetr: Hello all! Look! This is Robert ap Ifan manyscript 1587- about Tawlbwrdd 11*11 https://viewer.library.wales/6145926#?xywh=0%2C-1498%2C4158%2C8305&cv=14
2024-06-11 23:42:47 ChaolAibhne: @Hagbard Thanks for adding the links to player ratings. I think that's a nice feature to have.
2024-06-12 10:27:57 Hagbard: Robert ap Ifan manuscript, well found!!! @ChaolAibhne, thank you
2024-06-12 15:58:15 Hagbard: My new game sets! http://aagenielsen.dk/hnefatafl_gallery.php
2024-06-13 10:57:13 paul7: @Dimetr, thanks for sharing! I remember you were writing to the Library of Wales to get this document online. Is this the result of your effort?
2024-06-13 21:23:03 Dimetr: I'm afraid not! My friend found a link on the Wales Library website, recently (It's a really big library)
2024-06-13 21:25:31 Dimetr: Hagbard! Great game sets!
2024-06-13 21:30:33 Hagbard: thanks!
2024-06-14 10:11:49 Draganov: @Hagbard, are the pieces of your new set made of candies? If so, it is a nice idea... the more pieces you take, the more candies you can eat...
2024-06-14 10:40:25 Hagbard: Good idea! From my student's time I remember games using alcohol shots as pieces -
2024-06-17 20:35:59 Hagbard: Bue's Viking https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6SosDtXVQw
2024-06-18 15:09:39 Hagbard: https://www.tv2east.dk/slagelse/vikingeborg-kom-paa-saerlig-liste-nu-er-besoegstallet-eksploderet
2024-06-19 19:28:16 Hagbard: I follow with interest the tourn. 757 Frisian Dablo. Several players are very skilled in this game. However, the end game can obviously be a problem: with only few pieces left, it is theoretically possible for the two kings to just move around and never end the game. The timing will end it then. Now a test tourn. 782 is started (Frisian Dablo0) with the same rules, but no piece can move backwards (except as usual when capturing pieces).
2024-06-23 09:06:57 Hagbard: The Frisian Dablo game Herjan / Jrton80 of tourn. 757 is very illustrative. At some point I thought it looked like a tie. But it was not; it was possible for white to hunt the black king in chess style. The game timed out after 184 moves with black king alone against white king and three white men. With the three men soon to be promoted to princes, black looked into an unsecure fate here.
2024-06-24 06:10:12 MasterLuke: About the ongoing tournament Historical Hnefatafl 13 x 13 (just started): balance is -1,29. Did we ever try a version in which white begins?
2024-06-24 10:10:15 Draganov: I also think the whites should start first in Historical Hnefatafl 13 x 13
2024-06-24 20:51:40 Hagbard: Worth a try
2024-06-24 23:06:44 Dimetr: I tried to play 13*13 Historical Hnefatafl with friends, a little. It seems black always wins. White's first move will not help. Maybe modif. Parlett 2 (13*13) - is more balanced?
2024-06-24 23:25:33 Hagbard: True, this setup has been a mystery. When black begins, balance was measured to -1.29 And when white begins, balance was measured to -1.64 The two numbers cannot both be true.
2024-06-25 09:14:26 Draganov: @Dimetr maybe we should test 13*13 Historical Hnefatafl with whites first in an unrated match of 10 games and see what the balance is. I invited you to 10 test games.
2024-06-25 21:19:57 Dimetr: Draganov! OK, thank you! but it won't be fast
2024-07-01 18:00:43 Hagbard: Outline for WTF World Championship Tournament 2024: http://aagenielsen.dk/wtfturnering2024.php
2024-07-01 21:10:28 Раса: Лучше добавьте углы 2×2 на 13 доску. Тест с сильным князем.
2024-07-01 21:13:37 Hagbard: Because of the Gokstad 13x13 board found in Norway, it would be very interesting to find a good setup without corners for the weak (historical) king.
2024-07-02 08:47:51 Раса: На любой доске размера 13 и больше при исторических правилах черные имеют подавляющий перевес независимо от расстановки. Чтобы работала доска 13 и больше нужны другие правила
2024-07-02 08:50:04 Hagbard: That would be unfortunate. An interesting feature of the Linne rules, is that they are scalable and work on many boards. The Historical 13x13 setups which we have tried, are at the moment balanced -1.29, -1.32, -1.38 and -1.64 I would think that the best setup has not been found yet.
2024-07-02 09:45:08 Раса: Касаемо чемпионата. Доски 7×7 и 9×9 считаю непригодными для такого мероприятия. Там очень многое можно просто выучить как стихотворение в школе из-за маленького размера. Тактика и стратегия уходят на второй план. Думаю нужно в исторической части оставить только Tawlbwrd. А в части морского боя сделать только доску 13×13 с исторической расстановкой. Таблут и морской бой 9 и 11 надо удалить.
2024-07-02 10:08:32 Hagbard: Could be. Though a bit sad for Tablut, which is a very important game. For Sea 13x13 we have balances -1.08 and +1.33 While we're at it, perhaps the Daldos12 shouldn't be included, as the short board makes the game very dependent on a couple of bad throws.
2024-07-02 11:26:11 Hagbard: Draganov is the Sea Master 2023. Millar (crust) was very fond of Sea 13x13.
2024-07-02 12:32:26 Hagbard: The winners with the variants chosen last year were absolutely not unexpected, though. The variants worked. Perhaps 1. Copenhagen 11x11 2. Tawlbwrdd Lewis cross-w 11x11 3. Sea battle tafl 13x13 4. Saami Sahkku 3x15, Daldos 3x16, Daldos 3x14 and Saami Sahkku 3x15
2024-07-02 13:48:39 Draganov: As a Sea battle master, here is my opinion. The sea battle variants are not as popular as the other variants. So, it is likely that this year the participants in the sea tournament will be fewer compared to other tournaments. On the other hand, this is a good oportunity to make some tests and experiments in the sea tournament format. Regarding the sea variants, I think Sea battle-2526 9x9 is the best on 9x9 board. However, this variant is not playable amongst top players. Last year, I managed to beat Casshern with both colors but my victory with the whites came after a huge blunder. Sea battle-204577-w 11x11 is also a bad variant that is almost 100% black's victory. When I played against Casshern in it, we both easily won with the blacks. So, this variant is boring, slow and hopeless for the whites. Here is my proposal: Since we are expecting few players to join the sea tournament, we could test a new format. I suggest round-robin with 2 variants for each round. R1 combined points from two round-robin tournaments starting simultaneously (Sea battle-1571 9x9 and Sea battle circle 9x9)... let's try something new... Moreover, the balance of these two variants is really good. Round 2 could be round-robin with 1 variant (Sea battle T circle 11x11). Round 3 it could be round-robin using Sea battle tafl 13x13 (Nielsen). No elimination of players except if a player no shows-off or timed-out more than 50% of his games. The winner is the player who gains most points from all tournament rounds combined.
2024-07-02 13:54:51 Draganov: I am advocating of using new and less-known variants for the sea tournament since it will be more fun, the players will step into unknown water. While sailing, you don't know what to expect from the winds and the weather. So, it will be exciting to add an element of uncertainty with using less-known (but still with good balance) variants. I picked variants in which the whites have little bit advantage according the estimated balance since in slow play (world championship is usually played slowly) the blacks will be favourites.
2024-07-03 09:46:28 Dimetr: I think, we all know who "Раса" is) He knows, what he's talking about. Yes, Lewis Cross W - is the best version in historical tournament (although, blacks are much stronger too). But I think, we should keep Tablut -w 9*9, at least for this year. This is the most popular version after Copenhagen. Yes, we calculated all starts for white in Tablut. And black, closes the board fast, if they playing correctly. But white's plan, like in the game Casshern - Draganov - WTF 2022 - 47 moves (e4-f4 - e8-g8; e5-e4 - a4-b4; e6-d6 - f1-f2; e3-a3...), or the same one, is not canceled by blacks, yet. And we steal playing like this. Maybe we will find one more good plan for white this year?
2024-07-04 11:28:23 Hagbard: Most active Hnefatafl countries on this site June 2024: 1. USA 2. UK 3. Russia 4. Germany 5. Bulgaria 6. Ukraine 7. Belgium 8. Canada 9. Moldavia
2024-07-04 15:11:38 Раса: Если вы не сделаете как я говорю, то это будет не чемпионат мира, а обычный рядовой турнир, где тестируются разные варианты игры, а не определяется лучший игрок. Так было и в прошлые года.
2024-07-04 15:13:04 Hagbard: Paca complained about some of these ideas. I'll say that we do strive to choose the best game for the World Championship every year (and later years also side branches like Historical etc.). And it is clear that the wins were well deserved.
2024-07-04 17:21:04 Hagbard: Sorry, a few messages of Paca were not uploaded. The essence of them is: Copenhagen 11x11 to find the World Champion is ok. Other than this, Paca does not like very much board sizes 9 and 11, but apparently better 13. "A version of the game should be used which is as rich in tactics and strategy as possible, where you can express yourself".
2024-07-04 18:22:18 Hagbard: A comment on the 13x13, this board is usually not as well tested as 9 and 11. For Sea Tafl 13x13 we have 1. Sea13Nielsen 114 games bal. +1.33 2. Sea13 336 games bal. -1.08 Option 2 is fine. For Hist. 13x13 we have 1. Hist13 482 games bal. -1.29 2. Hist13Nielsen 60 games bal. -1.32 3. Hist13Parlet2 38 games bal. -1.38 4. Hist13-w 34 games bal. -1.64 (?) 5. Hist13Parlet 42 games bal. -1.73 Only option 1 is reliably tested.
2024-07-04 18:42:58 Hagbard: - but Draganov/Dimetr are about to expand our knowledge of option 4.
2024-07-04 18:54:03 Раса: Я говорил про 13 доску только для морского боя. И расстановку там сделать как в историческом варианте 13×13. Такого сейчас нет. И первый ход дать белым.
2024-07-04 19:19:52 Alex Hnefatafl: Разблокировать мои сообщения в самих играх. Личные чаты.
2024-07-05 09:56:54 Hagbard: Tourn. 794 with the proposed Sea battle tafl-w 13x13
2024-07-05 12:25:02 Hagbard: - I'm optimistic about that Sea tafl 13: One black piece moved back to the perifery strengthens white. And white begins also. So balance could change from -1.08 to something slightly positive. A slightly positive balance is more ideal, because in general it's white who has to be inventive and come up with good ideas to break out. A positive balance supports white in doing that.
2024-07-05 15:36:10 Hagbard: A Dablo-master this year? 1. Frisian Dablo0 2. Frisian Dablo The traditional Saami Dablo, though, is very slow and lasts 20 moves longer.
2024-07-05 15:49:23 Hagbard: Perhaps a Strait of the Gods Master? 1. Tyr 11x11 2. Total Hnefatafl 11x11 3. Odin 15x15
2024-07-09 05:09:04 Alex Hnefatafl: Почему игра с jilles закончена?
2024-07-09 05:13:52 Alex Hnefatafl: Верни мне игру с jilles
2024-07-09 11:10:47 Hagbard: Plan: If the Hist.Hnef. 13x13 and Sea Battle 13x13 turn out well, they could be used for the WTF Champ. Tourn. 2024. It would be one variant for all rounds and not two as last year. (hat tip Paca and Dimetr)
2024-07-09 22:42:42 Dimetr: Hagbard! About Historical Hnef. Lewis cross-W 11*11 - is the best in Historical tournament, but even there, black is better. And Black will be more stronger on 13*13 board. This is the essence of Tafl - it can`t be balanced, and that`s not bad, moverover, it`s interesting!
2024-07-09 22:45:43 Dimetr: And It would be better to keep Tablut-W 9*9, at least for this year. Yes, there are some problems with balance, but white still may win. I know, white has a couple of good options, at the beginning. Tablut - the most popular version, after Copenhagen, And it's the magic version. So, let's play Tablut this year?
2024-07-09 22:47:09 Dimetr: About 13*13 Historical - We need to play enough games and make sure, that 13*13 work. If it work, - maybe, it can be used for the final? Otherwise, we may scare of players
2024-07-09 22:49:50 Hagbard: Interesting point! In your 13x13 setup, however, you draw the blacks all back to the perifery, and advance the whites in the cross. I suspect that this will have an effect and help white much.
2024-07-09 23:19:51 Dimetr: yes, but black is still much stronger. I emailed you another setup 13*13, it would be nice to test it later.
2024-07-09 23:30:18 Hagbard: Thank you, I had not seen that
2024-07-11 19:55:20 Hagbard: New in gallery: The Basque Country National Championship 2024.
2024-07-14 13:45:05 Skye: @Hagbard: i've send you an email, with some pictures.
2024-07-14 20:39:44 Hagbard: New in gallery: SkyeTafl sent photos of new game sets.
2024-07-16 02:09:33 casshern: @Hagbard: Is it still possible to join tournament 797?
2024-07-16 09:00:45 Hagbard: https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/jul/15/copenhagen-offers-tourist-rewards-as-other-eu-nations-clamp-down
2024-07-16 09:52:15 Hagbard: Casshern added to tourn. 797. Thank you for testing these setups!
2024-07-16 10:06:51 Hagbard: NB! The game timing is relaxed now so that it should be easy to play also from California. Standard tournament timing is now x5.
2024-07-16 23:21:50 Dimetr: Everyone! Thank you for joining the tournaments! Hagbard it would be better to call Dimetr 1 and Dimetr 2, My surname is too hard even for russian language)
2024-07-17 09:16:43 Hagbard: OK. Normally I'd prefer the real name to an invention as is done with others (Bell, Lewis, Parlett, Bartley, Martens, Walker, Nielsen), so that it's not just cyberspace and virtual reality. The pronunciation is no problem. But it's now Dimetr.
2024-07-17 10:33:51 MasterLuke: Hey you all I have a question: since we're all into (Hnefa)Tafl, I may assume most of us have an interest in (early medieval) history... Now look at this picture: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8d/Sutton_Hoo_Exhibition_Centre_-_Reconstructed_Ship_Burial._-_geograph.org.uk_-_1210420.jpg It's a reconstruction of the famous Anglo Saxon Ship burial at Sutton Hoo. Visible up front is a game which looks a lot like a Tafl-game, but all the pieces are white and apparently there isn't a larger king-piece. Also, the number of rows on the gaming board is unclear and the positioning of the pieces makes no sense to me. Is this supposed to represent a Tafl game - albeit misinterpreted - or is it altogether another game? Anyone who has a clue?
2024-07-17 11:13:00 Hagbard: Interesting photo!! Just my guess: A square board, number of rows = number of columns. Looks like 15x15. 34 game pieces. I'd guess that the pieces originally have different colors, which are lost. Sutton Hoo is from the 500-600's years. At that time, Hnefatafl was known for a couple of centuries in Scandinavia, but Scandinavians were not known in Sutton Hoo. The Romans were, though, in the past. I guess that the set could, as one option, be used for the Roman game Latrunculi. A couple of centuries later this same game set, by just adding more pieces, would be perfect for Hnefatafl.
2024-07-17 12:13:45 Hagbard: In case of Latrunculi, each army could have one row of 15 soldiers, and in front of the soldiers, each army two officers. That would make 34 pieces. Just a thought.
2024-07-17 12:37:10 Hagbard: - or possibly width 16: Each army a row of 16 soldiers, and in front of the soldiers each army one officer.
2024-07-17 16:45:34 MasterLuke: @Hagbard: thanks for your suggestions regarding the photo. Yes, the Latrunculi game is a very good option. I wonder if it was still popular in that era. But it's very well possible. It's almost invisible on the photo, but some of the pieces seem to have a small dot in the center on the top. This could be the 'black' army... On additional note though: the Scandinavians dit not RAID the British islands before the infamous invasion at Lindisfarne in 793, but some sources state they were well known before that as traders.
2024-07-17 17:19:47 Hagbard: True, but without the fully developed Viking Ship the Scandinavians would've been very isolated from the islands of England.
2024-07-17 20:31:44 Draganov: @Hagbard, have you ever thought of implementing the game of Ludus Latruncolorum here? I think it could be great if we can test the game tafl originated from.
2024-07-17 21:00:56 Hagbard: I have. Players have asked for it sometimes. I searched for rules for the game, but it looks rather chaotic with many very different suggestions for how to play it.
2024-07-17 22:14:47 Hagbard: - I asked ChatGPT to find the rules for the Sutton Hoo game. After some negotiations, it came up with these rules which make sense: http://aagenielsen.dk/latrunculi_en.php ChatGPT made a small error: the leader should start on a center square of the second row.
2024-07-17 23:39:03 Hagbard: The rules which ChatGPT found, give a very direct line from Latrunculi to Historical Hnefatafl. In Hnefatafl, black must catch white's king. In Latrunculi, both players must catch the other's king. Pieces move and catch in the same way in both games, and the king functions as an ordinary piece and loses if he is caught. In Hnefatafl, the king can escape. In Latrunculi, the king cannot escape but wins by catching the other king. As is known also from Saami Dablo, the king loses if he lost all his men.
2024-07-18 06:07:18 MasterLuke: I'll gladly design the pieces of a Latrunculi game on this site :)
2024-07-18 08:49:24 Draganov: After reading about the rules of Latrunculi I came to conclusion that we could be almost sure about these points of the rules: 1) Both sides have equal number of pieces. 2) All of the pieces are moving like the rook in chess. 3) The capturing of a piece is done by sandwiching between two enemy pieces like in tafl. 4) A piece can safely moves between two enemy pieces without being capture like in tafl. 5) One piece can capture up to 3 enemy's pieces with one move like in tafl. 6) No special squares on the board. 7) If you are blocked and you are not able to make a move, you lose the game like in tafl. 8) If one of the sides lost all of its pieces, it losses the game. What is uncertain: 1) Do they have a special pieces like Kings? If so, the king is moving like the other pieces and it can be captured in the same way. If the king is captured the game is over. So, both sides need to protect their own kings. 2) The board size varies (8x12, 8x8, 7x8 and so on)... maybe we could try different boards and see what works best. 3) Is it possible to capture a piece in the corner? There is a Tibetan game called Ming Mang in which such capturing is possible. 4) Can a piece jump over another piece like in checkers? 5) Some scholars suggests that the pieces moved only one square per move. We could test this variant too.
2024-07-18 08:56:25 Draganov: I think Latrunculi could be a vvery strategic game. Maybe the main strategy is to find a way to move your pieces connected to each other and trying to block and restrict the movement of the opponent. It resembles the movement of the Roman legions in well-organized formations. I will be glad to test this game and trying to work out some openings and strategy principles.
2024-07-18 11:40:43 Hagbard: @Draganov, Masterluke, I agree with the certain points. Except that one side also loses if only the king is left. The photo shows that the archaologists at Sutton Hoo know something about tactical positioning, because the photo shows several lines of soldiers. The "uncertain" points 1: At first ChatGPT came up with rules with no kings, only soldiers, and with the soldiers placed in two rows. I told it, that some play it where each player has a leader piece, and with the soldiers placed in one row. Then these rules came. I doubt that the game has been played without kings. Because you can end the game rather fast by capturing a king, but without kings both sides will very often run out of soldiers; five soldiers against five soldiers is endless. 2. The Sutton Hoo board might well be 16x16. When I tried to count the size on the photo, I sometimes reached 15 sometimes 17. On the internet somewhere there is mentioned a 16x16 board for Latrunculi. If all the game pieces in Sutton Hoo are preserved, they are precisely 16 soldiers plus one leader to each player. 3. Not known. 4. In some versions on the internet, the leader can jump over other pieces. The Latunculi which the Scandinavian Iron Age mercenaries brought home from the Roman army in the 400's and transformed into Hnefatafl, must've been a simpler one with no jumps. 5. ChatGPT came up with normal move patterns identical to Hnefatafl. And again, this move pattern must be the one the Iron Age Scandinavians learnt in the Roman Empire and transformed into Hnefatafl. This game will be more complex to implement, because it is more different with two kings, they cannot escape etc. So it is not round the corner. Perhaps later, in autumn or so. I guess that the game can be tested at home simply on an 8x8 chess board with each player a row of 8 soldiers, plus one leader each.
2024-07-18 13:02:33 Draganov: Maybe we can start a correspondence game with some of the players and test Latrunculi by exchanging moves in the chat. Last year Plantagenet and I opened tafl games timing x10 and used the chat to exchange moves in his own variant in order to test it. I am ready to give Latrunculi a try. So, if there are some players who are willing to test it in by exchaning moves in the chat, please write in the chat here that you are open to play and I will invite you to a tafl game timing x10 to use the chat and play it.
2024-07-18 13:35:58 Hagbard: I suppose that Latrunculi would be of extra interest in Bulgaria, since the area was in the Roman Empire.
2024-07-18 13:50:35 Draganov: Indeed, the interest to the Roman Empire in Bulgaria is high since there are a lot of archaeological remains from that age here. I myself have a bachelor's degree in Archaeology and a master's degree in Byzantine Studies and I also spent two years teaching history in a secondary school. So, I expect Latrunculi as well as the ancient Greek game of Petteia to be of great interest here in Bulgaria.
2024-07-18 14:28:04 Hagbard: Interesting areas of study! I'm aware that I sometimes write "must have" where it would be more correct to write "probably", because we're talking about things 1600 years back. But when puzzle pieces fit very nicely and things function very well, it disturbs the text with all those dozens of "probably".
2024-07-18 15:00:59 Hagbard: I asked the AI about Petteia, too: http://aagenielsen.dk/petteia_en.php
2024-07-18 18:21:02 Hagbard: I wondered if the Latrunculi could also be used at the Medieval Festival soon to come and asked the AI, which answered: Latrunculi, also known as Latrones, was a popular board game in ancient Rome, resembling a form of chess or checkers. The game involved the strategic movement of pieces with the aim of capturing the opponent's pieces. However, there is limited information on whether the game continued into the Middle Ages. After the fall of the Roman Empire, many Roman games and activities were either forgotten or transformed. There is not much concrete evidence to suggest that Latrunculi was played in the Middle Ages, at least not in its original form. Instead, other board games like chess and various variants of tafl games (a group of Nordic board games) became very popular during the Middle Ages. There is, however, a possibility that elements of Latrunculi may have influenced other medieval games, but direct continuity is difficult to prove without specific historical sources. Generally, the Middle Ages was a time of great variation and development in board games, resulting in a range of new games, often with different regional variations.
2024-07-18 19:51:14 Раса: Ты будешь здесь делать эту игру или нет?
2024-07-18 20:13:10 Hagbard: I plan to implement Latrunculi, at some later time.
2024-07-18 22:05:12 Dimetr: My friends tried to play latrunculi with the start setup position. But most of games ended in a draw by Fort. For example - Cut off any corner of board with your pieces, and leave one piece inside - it will move inside the corner. It's a draw. So, it will be better try another variants of rules - without start setup. Fist - Pieces are placed one by one, anywhere on the board. Next - the game begins. Look Bell reconstruction, for example: https://ludii.games/variantDetails.php?keyword=Ludus%20Latrunculorum&variant=541
2024-07-18 22:30:31 Hagbard: Yes, I can see it is possible for both players to cirkle their soldiers around their king and that's the end of that game. We had precisely that problem in Fetlar: In two moves, white could encapsulate the king. That was dealt with by forbidding repetitions. And by winning by surrounding. Here, the king can be protected in a simple fort, a "tower": w k w w And likewise he can in Fetlar. In Fetlar, the other soldiers would be captured, and then the king has to move.
2024-07-18 22:41:58 Draganov: I also think that if the pieces cannot jump over an enemy piece, it will not be possible to penetrate the opponent's formation. The two armies will be blocking each other in the center and the position will be drawish. If we have initial setup, you just need to move your pieces together and not capture an enemy piece in order to keep your piece formation well-organized and your pieces connected to each other. This is especially true if the pieces can move only one square per move. When I made a research on the game, I found out that the ancient authors mentioned that the bad Petteia players allow to be cornered and made unable to move. I can't see a way to be cornered if I keep my pieces in a row. I also think the game might be more playable if the players are placing their pieces move by move like in Go. In Africa there are several board games that are probably related to Latrunculi or Petteia. Such games are Seega, Yote and Choko. All of them starts with an empty board and the players are placing their pieces one after another. Maybe this is the way in which Latrunculi was played.
2024-07-18 22:45:55 Hagbard: If the opponent's formation is like a fort, he cannot avoid to do repetitions to keep the formation.
2024-07-18 22:49:35 Hagbard: There's the case where the two lines just crash together, I think that is what you describe. I don't know how that works out.
2024-07-18 23:08:56 Hagbard: - if the king has special power, because it is necessary to solve a case like two clashing lines, then I'd propose perhaps he also captures like a chess piece but only in one step. Jumping is a more strange thing for a king.
2024-07-19 04:11:06 Раса: Сделайте по всей доске в нужных местах специальные клетки, на которые нельзя вставать, но о которые стукнуть фигурку. Как угловая клетка в Копенгагене.
2024-07-19 08:51:28 Hagbard: I asked the AI, how many squares you can move in Latrunculi, and it said normally one square.
2024-07-19 08:58:19 Draganov: One square per move is also the movement in Seega and other similar games that are related to Latrunculi. If the pieces move only one square per move, I don't see a way to penetrate an opponent's line. Two lines will clash in the center of the board.
2024-07-19 09:00:03 Draganov: The only way to add some tactical tricks to such a game would be if the pieces cannot move backwards. Then maybe you can force the opponent to put a piece on a square where you can capture it.
2024-07-19 09:02:58 Draganov: However, I don't think even this variant will work well. Maybe the only working variant would be if we start with an empty board and the pieces are placed on the board move after move. BTW, I don't know a similar game in which there is an initial setup. All of the similar ancient games starts with empty board. Is there any written accounts from ancient authors that Latrunculi had initial setup?
2024-07-19 09:06:41 Hagbard: The soldiers do move backwards; move in all four directions. If the leader can kill the man next to him, then the leader can break through lines.
2024-07-19 09:14:19 Hagbard: The AI says, no historical sources known about start setup. And that starting with an empty board is a possibility
2024-07-19 09:16:36 Draganov: Yes, the leader can break the line. However, if we don't have any special pieces, breaking the opponent's corrdon will be impossible. So, if there is an initial setup, we need leaders (kings), otherwise the game is pure drawish. If we don't have initial setup, then we probably don't need leaders. I am going to ask Ramzi Khadhraoui who played tafl here and is the president of an intellectual games association in Tunisia, about the Seega game and other typical games. I will also ask him if he knows about a similar game with initial piece setup.
2024-07-19 10:36:57 Раса: I said add special squares to the board that you can't stand on, but that you can hit someone else's soldier on. I also said that these latrunculi originated from Hnefatafl, and not vice versa. And I also said that on historical finds of Hnefatafl boards there are marked cells of unknown origin in different parts of the board.
2024-07-19 11:04:37 Раса: Such squares are needed in order to avoid locking and give the map a relief. As in the game stratego
2024-07-19 11:09:24 Раса: Also, the problem of locking can be solved, let's give only the king the opportunity to jump. Thus, he will always be at the forefront of the attack. But in real life, it is currently not possible to assemble a group of enthusiasts for tests. Therefore, you can find out how it will work in practice only in the online space.
2024-07-19 11:42:14 Draganov: I found out another problem with the king jumping. If the king is the only piece that can jump and in that way he is leading the attack, he will be in a dangerous situation and could be easily captured. However, I found out that someone proposed the king to be like strong king in tafl and being captured from 4 sides. This evening I will test different variants against myself on my chess board and will see what works well.
2024-07-19 16:29:44 Раса: https://youtu.be/lURlUeV7Vqo?si=L0aA33sg47P6E4C0
2024-07-19 21:50:47 Hagbard: Since the AI wrote itself that the dux can have special abilities, I asked about which: http://aagenielsen.dk/latrunculi_dux_en.php Here it clearly collected every desperate attempt to make the game work, and I disagree with much of it.
2024-07-20 09:46:11 Hagbard: AI writes that board sizes 8x8, 8x12 and 12x12 are found archaologically for Latrunculi. Most often 8x8. If the soldiers move only one square at a time, then it'll take 64 moves just for the two rows of soldiers to meet in the middle of the board, This indicates that free moving could be probable as in Hnefatafl.
2024-07-20 10:46:52 Dimetr: "at our service is a wide variety of Roman fields - both fragments and whole, carved in marble playing boards: 8x12, 10x11, 9x10, 7x8, 8x8 ... Sometimes it seems that the Romans did not care at all about the size" ... "Most often, the fields for latrunculi were drawn on the back of the Tabula boards - this fact allowed researchers to assume that the standard board was 8x12, according to the number of lines in the Tabula"
2024-07-20 10:47:47 Dimetr: https://skyruk.livejournal.com/246450.html
2024-07-20 10:59:22 Dimetr: so, we can use 8*8 and 8*12, without start setup, placed pieces one by one, anywhere on the board,it will be interesting
2024-07-20 12:50:30 Draganov: Last evening I played against myself in order to test different versions of Latrunculi. My impression is: 1) If pieces move only 1 square per move and can't jump and there are no kings, the game is a pure draw. Both armies reach the center and they cannot break each other's lines. The same situation occurs when the pieces are moving only forward and sideways. So, moving 1 square per move and with initial setup is absolutely unplayable. 2) Then I tried moving like rooks in chess but with initial setup. The game was also bad. The board is large enough for the pieces to escape any attack (I tested it on a 8x8 board, 8x12 or 12x12 will be even worse). So, my conclusion is that this variant is also not so playable. 3) I tested it with empty board and placing pieces freely move by move. This kind of game worked better but I found out similar problem. When the pieces start moving, the board is too large and the action is reduced. It is difficult to capture a piece because the pieces can easily escape the attack on such a big board. So moving up and down left and right is not the best game experience. Moreover, if one of the sides losses a piece the game is practically over. It is very difficult to compensate for losing a piece. 4) Then I tried playing Seega on 5x5 board with 24 pieces (12 pieces for each side). The game starts with an empty board and the pieces are introduced one after another and capturing is not allowed in this placing phase. Then, after placing all of the pieces only one square (the central square which is forbidden during the placing phase) is empty and the game starts. This kind of game was very nice for my taste. A lot of action and so deep strategy. In Seega the problem with the board size was solved by increasing the number of the pieces. Many similar games are following the pattern that the number of the pieces is equal to the number of the board squares minus one.
2024-07-20 15:10:37 Draganov: I found this modern reconstruction of the game very interesting and deep: https://www.chessvariants.com/invention/latrunculi-petteia-xxi They added some new rules to solve the problem with unbreakable lines clashing against each other and some draw fort structures as well as tower formation. The post is long to read and I will sum up the main new tactics they added: 1) Phalanx attack which allows you to capture a piece by pushing one of your own pieces (difficult to explain it, just search for example of phalanx attack in the article in the link). 2) The dux is captured by immobilization even if some of his own soldiers are included. However, you are not allowed to immobilize your own dux and make a suicide. 3) Another interesting rule is the rule of locking a piece. A piece is locked when it is involved in one-to-one combat with an enemy piece. So, both pieces in such a fight cannot move to escape from their lock unless they are attacking another enemy piece.
2024-07-20 15:19:33 Draganov: They called this variant Latrunculi XXI (because it is aimed to be played by players in 21st century and likely differs from the original ancient rules). They also made Petteia XXI which have the same rules except the duxes and the armies are doubled in size. They also have Single Stone Latrunculi XXI which have the same rules except lacking duxes and the armies are having only one row of soldiers. Both Petteia XXI and Single Stone Latrunculi XXI could be used as simpler introduction games to the more complex Latrunculi XXI which could be used in tournaments. This looks more like the story of reviving Hnefatafl. We can use simpler version like Fetlar to prepare a player for the deep rules of the Copenhagen variant which adds many newly invented rules like shieldwall capturing, exit forts and winning by surrounding. Maybe we could try to find a working simple variant which is closer to the ancient variant of Latrunculi without adding such rules like phalanx attack, locking pieces and even without dux (since they might not be existing in the original versions). However, I am open to try to play Latrunculi XXI and see if this game could be revived and played in 21st century with slightly modified rules to be more of the taste of the modern players.
2024-07-20 16:30:27 Draganov: I also found out that the rules for Hasami shogi are practically identical to those that we are discussing for Latrunculi or Petteia in their simplest version (no duxes, one row of soldiers for each armies and custodian capturing).
2024-07-20 16:40:36 Draganov: Here is a website that I mentioned a year ago where you can play many board games including Latrunculi against an AI. https://dagazproject.github.io/ Here is a link to Latrunculi https://dagazproject.github.io/custodian/latrunculi-board.htm
2024-07-20 16:52:38 Draganov: As a conclusion, I think the simplest variant that might be working is one row of soldiers for each armies and a dux that can jump over a piece (without capturing by jumping but can capture if a custodian capturing occured after the jump). The dux is captured by 2 sides like any other pieces.
2024-07-21 13:08:19 Hagbard: Latrunculi 8x8 case 1: Each player only 8 soldiers and no king. When the two lines met in the middle, one soldier is forced to move backwards, and from there the two lines can be disturbed. Case 2: Each player 8 soldiers and a king. The normal custodian capture among soldiers: Two soldiers are equal strength and noone can kill the other. If the king is given slightly more strength, it can be that he can kill a soldier alone. But must stand right next to him to do so. But I'd say, not by jumping but simply killing him and moving to his place. Case 3: Friday we were at the big Viking Festival at Trelleborg and saw great battles and duels. It was obvious, that in real a duel does not last long before one is killed. But how can you know who is killed? A dice throw could determine the fate of the men. At some time, Herjan was very interested in using dice in Hnefatafl. I could imagine two ways: 1. Two 4-sided dice are thrown, and if you get two 1's, then you can kill any soldier engaged in a duel. 2. One 4-sided dice is thrown. You determine beforehand if you want to throw the dice, and which particular duel you throw for. If you get a 1, the man is killed. If not, you lost your turn.
2024-07-21 13:13:29 Hagbard: - and if you win the duel by dice, you move to the killed man's place.
2024-07-21 13:47:36 Hagbard: Du danske sommer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GK3nLk8spMk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vF3qjFGkPU
2024-07-21 14:20:17 Hagbard: Danmark nu blunder https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtUGNTUZLuI En yndig og frydefuld https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UM6tP66SquM Jeg gik mig ud https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZXrlCUuPvc
2024-07-21 15:48:29 Draganov: @Hagbard, you wrote about case 1 'one soldier is forced to move backwards, and from there the two lines can be disturbed'. I think there is a way to keep the two lines without breaking them. Imagine a situation in which both armies met in the midle of the board. Let's use notation for a sample board of 8x8. The whites are placed from a4 to h4 while the blacks occupied the squares from a5 to h5. Then the whites must move. Obviously they need to move backwards and to open a hole in their row. However, they move B2-B4 providing the squares B3 and B4 open for the blacks. If the blacks move B5-B3 they will lose their attacking soldier.So, they need to play B5-B4. Then the whites respond B2-B3 and now the blacks must move backwards. If they play C5-B5 (try to move sideways) then the whites will play C4-C6 completely penetrating their positions and the game will be over for the blacks. If the blacks move backward B4-B5, then the whites move B3-B4 restoring the two lines with whites to move. When two armies met in the center the position is a draw unless one of the sides play too weakly and lose it.
2024-07-21 15:49:54 Draganov: * However, they move B2-B4 to be read However, they move B4-B2
2024-07-21 16:02:39 Draganov: I think we could easily solve such drawish situations if we have a simple additional rule for winning. If there is no capture in for example 30 moves or the position is repeated for the third time, we start to count the killed soldiers. The side with the most soldiers left is the winner or if the number of soldiers is equal we can count the controlled squares like in Go (this will solve situations like draw forts, however, we have another problem here because the stronger side could make an ugly draw fort immediatelly after killing the first opponent's soldier. Noone will like a game in which the tactics will be to kill a soldier first and make a draw fort). In my opinion the best way to solve the issue with two unbreakable lines met in the middle of the board is by giving the dux the ability to jump over a piece (without killing by jumping). Then it will be pointless to make an unbreakable line because the opponent's dux will just jump over it and will go behind your army. Moreover, jumping dux can solve the problem with the draw forts inviding the fort. The dux will be able also to capture a piece by jumping if custodian capturing occurs after the jump.
2024-07-21 16:05:52 Draganov: We can also use our experience from Fetlar by adding the rule of uncircling the opponent. If one of the sides is completely surrounded in the middle of the board or on one of the sides, it losses the game. This solve the issue with draw forts completely.
2024-07-21 19:00:03 Skye: @Hagbard i've send you an email with some pictures. Greetings.
2024-07-21 19:05:54 Skye: Still some work to be done.
2024-07-22 09:03:02 Hagbard: added to gallery
2024-07-22 10:43:14 Раса: Скоро ли латрункули появятся на этом сайте?
2024-07-22 10:52:52 Draganov: @Раса, some days ago Hagbard said that Latrunculi could be added after several months. If you want you and I can play it correspondently using game chat.
2024-07-22 17:24:49 Hagbard: New in gallery: game sets from Luk Martens.
2024-07-23 00:30:34 Hagbard: New in gallery: Trelleborg Viking Festival.
2024-07-23 17:54:32 Hagbard: Tested the Latrunculi with family and learnt three things: 1. It's necessary to capture a king in a corner with two men, otherwise the king can hide in a corner forever. 2. The board should be less high than wide, because otherwise there's too much space for the men to run about forever. 3. Even with less space, it'll probably often happen that there are few pieces left, which run about forever, so that it'll be necessary to agree for a draw. Otherwise the game functioned very well.
2024-07-23 23:31:57 Hagbard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-iQLnTEC1k
2024-07-24 17:16:23 ChaolAibhne: @Hagbard The Wikipedia article on Daldøs (both the English and Danish versions) acknowledges variations in both board layout and play. However common to all the variants mentioned by the article is the fact of the central row having one extra hole, forming the 'bow' of a boat-shaped board, which the versions played here on the site do not have. Is that simply because the Wikipedia article has omitted some regional variants, or is this an adaptation that has been made for the site?
2024-07-24 17:21:55 Hagbard: The Daldøs' here have the extra square in the middle row. Only Sahkku has not.
2024-07-24 17:36:23 Hagbard: ' test "
2024-07-24 18:02:57 Hagbard: Jeg ved hvor der findes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voeWB1XJMpQ
2024-07-24 22:55:19 ChaolAibhne: @Hagbard I realised soon after I had posted that I gotten confused ...
2024-07-26 00:44:32 Hagbard: Se det summer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLGkFEnuRW8
2024-07-26 11:51:59 Hagbard: Plan: At the WTF-tourn. players leave the tourn. if they lost 5 games. (4 is too few, since 4 eliminated AlexHnef in round 1 last year. 6 is unnecessary many.) The other mishap last year, that sqAree timed out before starting, can still happen; timeout if you've not started within 3 days. Copenhagen: Copenhagen 11x11 Hist.: Saami Tablut 9x9, Hist. Hnef. Lewis cross-w 11x11 and possibly Historical Hnefatafl-w 13x13 (Dimetr 1 or 2) (13x13 if it's well known) Sea: Sea battle-w 11x11 and possibly Sea battle tafl-w 13x13 (Parlett) (Sea battle 9x9 possibly too small board) (13x13 if it's well known) Race: Sahkku, Daldos 16, Daldos 14 and Sahkku (Daldos 12 possibly too small board) The idea of lines of Dablo and Gods, dropped for now, there could already be plenty of simultaneous games. Perhaps these two lines next spring.
2024-07-26 15:30:41 ChaolAibhne: I'm interested to see that a number of the Tafl variants proposed for the WTF tournament are employing the principle that white plays first, which I think will lead to better-balanced games. It's been useful to see the outcomes of experiments in this area, but I wonder if we have made resolving this question more complicated than it need be. I've been conducting an experiment where I've described Tafl to several people unfamiliar with the game: "One player is trying to get a certain piece to a place of safety, while the other player is trying to prevent this". I then ask which player they think starts first. Unhesitatingly, and sometimes puzzled by my asking a question with such an obvious answer, every single person has given as their answer, the player who is trying to reach safety. Perhaps the reason why Linnaeus, in his description of Tablut, did not record who starts first is because this would be instinctively understood by anyone. In which case, perhaps we adopt the principle of white playing first as our default, unless empirical evidence shows that this unbalances a particular variant too much?
2024-07-26 16:41:16 Hagbard: Nowadays I for one agree on this. It's been useful to shift to white begins in many games.
2024-07-26 17:27:39 Hagbard: This weekend Roskilde gets a fine visit from Norway: The Viking Ship Gaia, a reconstruction of Norway's largest viking ship sailed from Toensberg July 21st and arrives here tomorrow. 1991 this ship crossed the Atlantic from Norway to New York, USA, on occasion of the 1000 years anniversary of Leif Ericsson's arrival to America. https://www.vikingeskibsmuseet.dk/nyheder/verdensberejst-vikingeskib-fra-norge-besoeger-vikingeskibsmuseet-i-weekenden
2024-07-29 06:03:27 MasterLuke: I noticed that the regular historical 9x9 and 11x11 versions are replaced with the 'white begins'-versions. Since we're testing tournaments on a 13x13 format currently (Dimetr 1 and 2), I wonder: did we ever try the Parlett set-up on a 13x13 board with white starters?
2024-07-29 09:46:29 Hagbard: Yes, we found Historical Hnefatafl 13x13 (Parlett) BALANCE - 1.29 from 880 games Historical Hnefatafl-w 13x13 (Parlett) BALANCE - 1.86 from 100 games These two balance numbers cannot both be true, because it should be easier for white to begin and not harder. The true balance, however, is probably closer to -1.86 than to -1.29
2024-07-29 09:52:15 MasterLuke: @Hagbard: OK, thanks for the info.
2024-07-29 10:21:45 Hagbard: Viking King Hall https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yg6zJf5I7M
2024-07-29 12:25:20 Draganov: @Hagbard, is it possible to extract the balance for the most popular variants over the years? I mean to see what was the balance for Tablut, Copenhagen, Welsh Tawlbwrdd (Bell setup) in 2023, 2022 and back to 2012-2013. I wonder if there is a change in the balance over the year. I suppose that when a variant is new, it is easier for the whites to win, then the more years passed, the harder for whites become.
2024-07-29 12:39:01 Hagbard: After a hundred games or so, the balances are rather much stable. On the invites list, the games are sorted such that the best balances are on the primary list, the next best balances on the extended list, and some bad balances on the bottom list.
2024-07-29 19:02:44 Hagbard: Tested again Latrunculi against family. This time with reduced board size 6x8, it worked much better and very well. But both players very easily lost so many men that it is a draw. I guess that some of the board game sharks here could think of a playing style which does not lose all those men.
2024-07-29 20:47:35 Draganov: @Hagbard, try to play Latrunculi with moving your pieces together and advancing slowly in groups. You can also move and cover squares by placing two soldiers in a formation resembling the move of a knight in chess. For example solider on D2 and another soldier on E4. Avoid exchenging pieces and try to occupy as much squares as you can slowly choking your opponent. I think it is possible for a player to keep his pieces by moving them carefully in groups.
2024-07-29 21:05:56 Hagbard: thanks, I'll try that
2024-07-29 22:53:09 Hagbard: New in gallery: viking ship visit in Roskilde.
2024-07-30 12:20:01 Hagbard: Estimates for the WTF tourn. The Copenhagen games are the longest, each game could last up to roughly 32 days. Last year it took 4 rounds. So a rough estimate is that the whole tourn. could last for 128 days and end about Jan. 21st. But hopefully long before that. If I fx. join all lines, I could at best hope to live for two rounds. I would have 4 + 4 Copenhagen games. 4 + 4 Hist. Hnef. games 4 + 4 Sea games 32 + 32 + 28 + 22 race games (if 17 players like last year) I all 24 tafl games and 114 race games. That is rather many race games ...
2024-07-30 12:38:25 Hagbard: Race games, an alternative could be: Just two rounds, Sahkku and Daldos14. Still Round Robins and Formula One points. With still 17 players this would be 32 + 32 = 64 games instead of 114.
2024-07-31 11:24:41 Draganov: @Hagbard, I think two round-robin rounds for Race games would be better.
2024-07-31 11:35:25 Hagbard: ;)
2024-07-31 11:43:29 test1: Registers for the WTF Copenhagen tournament.
2024-07-31 11:44:46 test1: Registers for the WTF Hist.Hnef. tournament.
2024-07-31 11:45:32 test1: Registers for the WTF Sea Battle tournament.
2024-07-31 11:46:21 test1: Registers for the WTF Race Games tournament.
2024-07-31 13:02:50 Раса: Registers for the WTF Copenhagen tournament.
2024-07-31 13:03:09 Раса: Registers for the WTF Hist.Hnef. tournament.
2024-07-31 15:10:50 Hagbard: With two race rounds, there's a fair chance that more players end with identical point sums. I asked AI, what Formula One would do about that: In Formula 1, if multiple drivers end the season with the same number of points, specific rules are used to determine the winner. These are the tie-breaking rules: 1. Most wins: The driver with the most race wins during the season is declared the winner. 2. Most second places: If the number of wins is the same, the driver with the most second-place finishes is considered. 3. Most third places: If there is still a tie, the driver with the most third-place finishes is considered. 4. Most fourth places, and so on: This process continues with fourth places, fifth places, etc., until the tie is broken. 5. Other criteria: If all these criteria are exhausted and there is still a tie, it can be decided based on further factors such as pole positions and fastest laps, although this is rarely necessary. These rules ensure there is always a clear winner in the event of a tie on points.
2024-07-31 16:04:59 Draganov: I think a final match between the tied players would work best in Race games. The games are quick and another additional round between tied players will not take much time. If the players are tied again, then we can use additional criteria such as pieces taken to determine the winner.
2024-07-31 16:06:14 Draganov: And the additional round must be in Sahkku
2024-07-31 16:21:34 Hagbard: Absolutely a possibility, if players agree. Two rounds give time for a third round when necessary. Since both players are very strong, the result could often be 1-1, and so the surviving pieces are counted the Saami way and the winner found.
2024-07-31 16:34:26 rosk: Registers for the WTF Race Games tournament.
2024-07-31 19:45:51 sqaree: Registers for the WTF Copenhagen tournament.
2024-07-31 20:58:56 Dimetr: Registers for the WTF Hist.Hnef. tournament.
2024-07-31 21:30:31 Dimetr: Hagbard! Dimetr 1 setup is imbalanced - black is much stronger. So, it will be better to play Dimetr 2 (perhaps) - I think, balance is fine.
2024-07-31 21:35:24 Hagbard: ok. But the statistics numbers are not so clear yet.
2024-07-31 21:35:54 Luizz: Registers for the WTF Copenhagen tournament.
2024-07-31 22:17:38 MasterLuke: Registers for the WTF Hist.Hnef. tournament.
2024-08-01 14:41:55 Hitchcock: Registers for the WTF Copenhagen tournament.
2024-08-02 00:09:25 Ailill: Registers for the WTF Copenhagen tournament.
2024-08-02 00:09:37 Ailill: Registers for the WTF Hist.Hnef. tournament.
2024-08-02 00:09:50 Ailill: Registers for the WTF Sea Battle tournament.
2024-08-02 00:54:05 Hagbard: Most active Hnefatafl countries on this site July 2024: 1. USA 2. UK 3. Russia 4. Bulgaria 5. Moldavia 6. Germany 7. Denmark 8. Belgium 9. Canada
2024-08-02 09:09:17 brave-frog: Registers for the WTF Copenhagen tournament.
2024-08-02 09:09:41 brave-frog: Registers for the WTF Hist.Hnef. tournament.
2024-08-02 09:09:53 brave-frog: Registers for the WTF Sea Battle tournament.
2024-08-02 09:10:06 brave-frog: Registers for the WTF Race Games tournament.
2024-08-02 09:20:28 Hagbard: Registers for the WTF Copenhagen tournament.
2024-08-02 09:20:51 Hagbard: Registers for the WTF Hist.Hnef. tournament.
2024-08-02 09:21:05 Hagbard: Registers for the WTF Sea Battle tournament.
2024-08-02 09:21:19 Hagbard: Registers for the WTF Race Games tournament.
2024-08-02 13:16:49 Tonythebook: Registers for the WTF Copenhagen tournament.
2024-08-02 13:16:59 Tonythebook: Registers for the WTF Hist.Hnef. tournament.
2024-08-02 13:17:07 Tonythebook: Registers for the WTF Sea Battle tournament.
2024-08-02 13:17:15 Tonythebook: Registers for the WTF Race Games tournament.
2024-08-02 18:55:51 Hagbard: Tested again Latrunculi against family. The advices of Draganov are good advices. The soldiers survived, and the opponent lost only two men. But we ended in a situation where the pieces could only move back and forth, i.e. a draw again. I begin to think that my ideas of Latrunculi are on the wrong track.
2024-08-02 21:13:23 Draganov: @Hagbard, maybe you should try playing with a jumping king. If the king can jump over an opponent piece, then the draw forts will be vulnerable. Especially if the king is captured from 4 sides. Another simpler solution would be to declare a win if one of the sides completely surrounded the opponent's army including surrounding when one of the sides is on the edge.
2024-08-02 23:37:46 Hagbard: yeh but I give it up for now -
2024-08-03 09:38:57 Hagbard: Finished tournaments: Copenhagen Hnefatafl 11x11: #1 Alex hnefatafl, #2 Cacreal, #3 Holidayinnes Historical Hnefatafl 7x7 (Irish Brandubh 2): #1 Colophonius, #2 Themightyglider, #3 Tonythebook Tyr 15x15 (Alea Berserk Martens 2): #1 Holidayinnes and Jrton80, #3 Masterluke Frisian Dablo 11x9: #1 Brave-frog and Holidayinnes, #3 Jrton80 Tyr 11x11 (Alea Berserk Martens 2): #1 Jilles and Holidayinnes, #3 Jrton80 Daldos 3x16: #1 Holidayinnes, #2 Jrton80, #3 Jilles and Tonythebook Historical Hnefatafl 7x7 (Irish Brandubh 2): #1 Colophonius, #2 Paul7, #3 Themightyglider Historical Hnefatafl 9x9 (Saami Tablut-w): #1 Alex hnefatafl, #2 Dimetr, #3 Paul7 Daldos 3x14: #1 Holidayinnes and Jilles, #3 Tonyfromformby and Potapych Hex 11x11: #1 Chaolaibhne, #2 Paul7, #3 Holidayinnes Copenhagen Lewis cross 11x11: #1 Draganov, #2 Jilles and Ailill Historical Hnefatafl 11x11 (Welsh Tawlbwrdd-w): #1 Alex hnefatafl, #2 Chaolaibhne, #3 Brave-frog Simple Tafl T cross-w 9x9: #1 Paul7, #2 Masterluke, #3 Brave-frog Daldos 3x12: #1 Jilles, #2 Brave-frog, #3 Holidayinnes, Tonythebook, Chaolaibhne and Potapych Historical Hnefatafl 7x7 (Irish Brandubh 2): #1 Colophonius, #2 Paul7, #3 Brave-frog Copenhagen T cross 11x11: #1 Draganov, #2 Jilles, #3 Brave-frog Copenhagen Hnefatafl 11x11: #1 Alex hnefatafl and Thorfin, #3 Floki Saami Sahkku 3x15 (Kaafjord): #1 Holidayinnes, #2 Tonythebook, #3 Potapych and Rosk Hist. Hnef. Lewis diamond 11x11: #1 Paul7, #2 Masterluke, #3 Brave-frog Hist. Hnef. Lewis cross-w 11x11: #1 Alex hnefatafl, #2 Dimetr, #3 Paul7 Historical Hnefatafl 7x7 (Irish Brandubh 2): #1 Colophonius, #2 Hnefihunter and Themightyglider Daldos 3x16: #1 Holidayinnes, #2 Tonythebook, #3 Rosk, Jilles and Potapych Frisian Dablo0 11x9: #1 Rosk, #2 Hagbard, #3 Jrton80 Daldos 3x14: #1 Holidayinnes, #2 Jilles and Jrton80 Historical Hnefatafl-w 13x13 (Parlett): #1 Alex hnefatafl and Jilles, #3 Masterluke Daldos 3x12: #1 Holidayinnes, #2 Tonythebook, Chaolaibhne and Rosk Berse
2024-08-03 09:39:56 Hagbard: Berserk Hnefatafl 11x11: #1 Casshern, #2 Holidayinnes, #3 Masterluke Frisian Dablo0 11x9: #1 Jrton80, #2 Rosk, #3 Holidayinnes
2024-08-03 11:35:19 Paul7: Registers for the WTF Hist.Hnef. tournament.
2024-08-03 11:35:26 Paul7: Registers for the WTF Copenhagen tournament.
2024-08-03 11:35:33 Paul7: Registers for the WTF Sea Battle tournament.
2024-08-03 11:35:39 Paul7: Registers for the WTF Race Games tournament.
2024-08-05 01:34:30 Jrton80: Registers for the WTF Copenhagen tournament.
2024-08-05 01:34:52 Jrton80: Registers for the WTF Hist.Hnef. tournament.
2024-08-05 13:01:38 Потапыч: Registers for the WTF Copenhagen tournament.
2024-08-05 13:01:56 Потапыч: Registers for the WTF Hist.Hnef. tournament.
2024-08-05 13:02:16 Потапыч: Registers for the WTF Sea Battle tournament.
2024-08-05 13:02:33 Потапыч: Registers for the WTF Race Games tournament.
2024-08-06 16:43:54 Nikolai Hristov: Registers for the WTF Race Games tournament.
2024-08-06 16:44:27 Nikolai Hristov: Registers for the WTF Copenhagen tournament.
2024-08-07 11:08:38 Hagbard: The 13x13 board is still a problem child. The new variants are still under test and their balances are still floating. But as of now the picture is: Historical Hnefatafl-w 13x13 (Dimetr 2), bal. +1.63 from 92 games Historical Hnefatafl 13x13 (Nielsen), bal. -1.24 Historical Hnefatafl 13x13 (Parlett), bal. -1.29 Historical Hnefatafl 13x13 (Nielsen 2), bal. -1.32 Historical Hnefatafl-w 13x13 (Dimetr 1), bal. -1.40 from 24 games Historical Hnefatafl-w 13x13 (Parlett), bal. -1.56 Historical Hnefatafl 13x13 (modif. Parlett), bal. -1.73 Sea battle tafl-w 13x13 (Parlett), bal. +1.67 from 32 games Sea battle tafl 13x13 (Nielsen), bal. +1.31 Sea battle tafl 13x13 (modif. Parlett), bal. -1.08 Sea battle tafl 13x13 (Nielsen 2), bal. -1.42
2024-08-07 13:49:49 Fraech: Registers for the WTF Copenhagen tournament.
2024-08-07 16:45:41 Draganov: These two variants are the only working from the mentioned: Historical Hnefatafl-w 13x13 (Dimetr 2), bal. +1.63 from 92 games Sea battle tafl-w 13x13 (Parlett), bal. +1.67 from 32 games The balance is great (in my opinion +1.6 is much more playable than -1.2). Moreover, I am expecting the balance to become better for the blacks over time. So, maybe the real balance after 1000 games will be about +1.2
2024-08-07 21:51:41 Hagbard: Ramsoe https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRGGsyDTSEo Jeg vil saa gerne https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9MIGUmJagU
2024-08-07 22:25:00 Hagbard: Now we're at it, the same list for 11x11: Hist. Hnef. Lewis diamond 11x11, bal. +1.47 Historical Hnefatafl 11x11 (Welsh Tawlbwrdd-w), bal. +1.02 Hist. Hnef. Lewis cross-w 11x11, bal. -1.04 Hist. Hnef. Lewis cross 11x11, bal. -1.07 Historical Hnefatafl 11x11 (Welsh Tawlbwrdd), bal. -1.21 Hist. Hnef. T diamond 11x11, bal. -1.88 Hist. Hnef. T cross 11x11, bal. -2.10 Sea battle Lewis diamond 11x11, bal. +1.96 Sea battle T circle 11x11, bal. +1.33 Sea battle-aleks 11x11, bal. 1.00 Sea battle T cross 11x11, bal. -1.05 Sea battle T cross-w 11x11, bal. -1.10 Sea battle-204577-w 11x11, bal. -1.21 Sea battle T diamond 11x11, bal. -1.34 Sea battle-204577 11x11, bal. -1.74
2024-08-08 08:03:32 MasterLuke: It strikes me how much difference in balance there is between the two Historical 11xx11 Tawlbwrdd games, just by letting the whites begin.
2024-08-10 11:16:11 Hagbard: Frisian Draughts https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fu4CYcN1iy0
2024-08-10 13:26:12 Dimetr: Hagbard! About Dimetr 2 version. Look games between strongest players (Casshern, Draganov, Раса) - it is clear that white has no advantage. Yes, you can quickly lose the king, with a weak play of black - that's why the balance favor of whites, now. But in a serious game, black should be a little stronger. So, If we will realize that white is stronger - we can make black first move. But, I think contrary - it will be better to help white. For example, we can add shield wall rule
2024-08-10 13:35:22 Dimetr: I mean - the king can quickly escape, if black plays weakly, but black will be a little stronger, among top players. So we can add shield wall, ti help white break black's defense
2024-08-10 21:39:30 Hagbard: The two Dimetr setups are an interesting case and not quite resolved. Casshern has still some games in the tournaments, and thus the balances will probably be influenced by "The Millar Effect": Any setup which Millar (crust) tested, apparently had a perfect balance of 1, because Millar would in any setup win all games as black and as white. I think that we also have an identical "Casshern Effect", so that the games left will draw the balances towards 1.
2024-08-11 09:46:52 Hagbard: Marten Walinga who made the video about Draughts is two times World Champion of Frisian Draughts. Our Zealand board games community was privileged to receive a visit from him two years ago, and this meeting was the inspiration for transforming the Saami Dablo into "Frisian Dablo" with mandatory capture. The next World Championship tournament of Frisian Draughts is upcoming August 16th.
2024-08-12 10:54:04 Draganov: @Hagbard, could you check the timing in the game between me and Casshern. I think something is wrong with the time buffer. The game took long time and I used up almost all of my time buffer. However, after I made a move today, the time buffer of Casshern is also reduced and he has 24 hours left until timing-out despite having 3.7 days left of time buffer. I suppose the problem is that when the game took long time, both players will have 24 hours maximum to make their next move or I might be wrong in my assumption?
2024-08-12 15:07:34 Hagbard: That's right. The game reached 106 moves, and so the limit per move is 25 hours. But since there's still a big time buffer, it is far away from the threatening final 2 hours per move. At start: limit 3 days per move. At 80 moves: limit 2 days per move. At 100 moves: limit 1 day per move. This is to shorten the end games, which have sometimes taken a very long time.
2024-08-12 18:14:15 Hagbard: New in gallery: preparing for the Medieval Festival.
2024-08-12 19:02:36 emanuelesaiu: Registers for the WTF Copenhagen tournament.
2024-08-12 22:56:23 MasterV: Registers for the WTF Copenhagen tournament.
2024-08-14 10:37:17 Hagbard: A month to start of WTF World Championship tournament 2024. Now 18 players registered: Copenhagen: Paca, sqAree, Luizz, Hitchcock, Ailill, brave-frog, Hagbard, Tonythebook, Paul7, Jrton80, Potapych, Nikolai Hristov, Fraech, emanuelesaiu, MasterV Historical: Paca, Dimetr, MasterLuke, Ailill, brave-frog, Hagbard, Tonythebook, Paul7, Jrton80, Potapych Sea: Ailill, brave-frog, Hagbard, Tonythebook, Paul7, Potapych Race: rosk, brave-frog, Hagbard, Tonythebook, Paul7, Potapych, Nikolai Hristov
2024-08-14 23:08:53 Colophonius: Registers for the WTF Race Games tournament.
2024-08-15 16:05:11 Colophonius: I guess there's no room for including Brandubh in the Historical Hnefatafl Section, is it?
2024-08-15 16:23:35 Hagbard: I suppose it is 9x9, 11x11 and perhaps 13x13
2024-08-16 13:57:01 Hagbard: Medieval Festival band https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MYr3gD9Xao
2024-08-16 14:10:03 rosk: Registers for the WTF Copenhagen tournament.
2024-08-16 14:10:26 rosk: Registers for the WTF Hist.Hnef. tournament.
2024-08-16 14:10:45 rosk: Registers for the WTF Sea Battle tournament.
2024-08-17 03:22:20 cacreal: Registers for the WTF Copenhagen tournament.
2024-08-17 18:51:23 TheMatrix: Registers for the WTF Hist.Hnef. tournament.
2024-08-17 18:53:00 TheMatrix: Registers for the WTF Hist.Hnef. tournament.
2024-08-18 08:19:12 Hagbard: Medieval festival band, Sissel https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLAVZWHvBZE
2024-08-19 16:09:57 holidayinnes: Registers for the WTF Race Games tournament.
2024-08-19 16:10:27 holidayinnes: Registers for the WTF Copenhagen tournament.
2024-08-19 20:11:52 xerxes: Registers for the WTF Race Games tournament.
2024-08-20 19:28:23 Hagbard: New in gallery: Medieval Festival 2024. Remarks: http://aagenielsen.dk/hnefataflforum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=147&p=1830#p1826
2024-08-22 14:53:59 Hagbard: En ulv https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_R3mttjAfU
2024-08-24 10:42:40 Hagbard: Three weeks to start of WTF World Championship tournament 2024. Now 23 players registered: Copenhagen: Paca, rosk, sqAree, Luizz, Hitchcock, Ailill, brave-frog, Hagbard, Tonythebook, Paul7, Jrton80, Potapych, Nikolai Hristov, Fraech, emanuelesaiu, MasterV, cacreal, holidayinnes Historical: Paca, rosk, Dimetr, MasterLuke, Ailill, brave-frog, Hagbard, Tonythebook, Paul7, Jrton80, Potapych, TheMatrix Sea: rosk, Ailill, brave-frog, Hagbard, Tonythebook, Paul7, Potapych Race: rosk, brave-frog, Hagbard, Tonythebook, Paul7, Potapych, Nikolai Hristov, Colophonius, holidayinnes, xerxes
2024-08-24 20:56:47 TheMatrix: Registers for the WTF Hist.Hnef. tournament.
2024-08-24 20:57:30 TheMatrix: Registers for the WTF Hist.Hnef. tournament.
2024-08-25 09:45:00 Hagbard: Tanz https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BwktcMHT80
2024-08-25 12:00:41 Hagbard: Plan: With the new Race Games tourn. format, you might have 32 race games (17 players last year), and at the same time 4 Copenhagen, Hist. and Sea games. To give a more quiet start to the tafl games, the race games can start a bit later, Oct. 1st. The tafl tourn. still start Sep. 15th.
2024-08-25 16:19:47 Luizz: Registers for the WTF Hist.Hnef. tournament.
2024-08-27 08:46:37 garun19: Registers for the WTF Copenhagen tournament.
2024-08-28 03:51:32 garun19: Registers for the WTF Copenhagen tournament.
2024-08-28 08:06:26 sqaree: A recent "loss" made me look up if the timing mode on this site has improved and I noticed in the championship it's still only 2 hours that are protected.
2024-08-28 08:08:12 sqaree: Players should not be incentivized to sacrifice a normal night's sleep just to stay alive in the game. I know I write a complaint like that every year and nothing ever happens.
2024-08-28 08:10:53 sqaree: It also means white always has a winning strategy, just by not resigning. If the timing is not improved, I will not play the tournament (again, I know nothing's going to change)
2024-08-28 09:44:37 Hagbard: Thanks for bringing up the matter. The timing in the tournament games is loosened to x5 because of far away places like California (and non-tourn. games to x2). But timing of the end game is slightly tightened, so that timing can limit very long games. It is certainly not encouraged (!!!) to not sleep, in order to move before 2 hours. The intention of the 2 hours is, that whenever the night comes in whatever part of the world, it will be the timeout of that game. Long games are limited two ways: 1. When the player used 6.5 days ( + some extra for number of moves), then the time increment per move will slowly begin to fall. If the opponent also used 6.5 days, it means that it will begin to happen when a game lasted for +13 days. 2. A move must be done before 3 days. This limit falls very slowly, so that when a game is 80 moves long, then a move must be done before 2 days. And at 100 moves, a move before 1 day (25 hours). It is terrible if the final 2 hours per move limit should bereave players of their good night's sleep. But without a limit something like that, how could the timer tell that a game must time out? In live chess you exactly know when the flag falls and it's over. In the tournament game you're not there live, and instead of a few seconds as in live chess, you must have fx. 2 hours to react near the timeout.
2024-08-28 10:39:47 Hagbard: Alternative: No protection, i.e. no protected 2 hours.
2024-08-28 13:33:36 Draganov: @Hagbard, what I saw as a problem with the timing is that if the time buffer is used up, the added time per move is not enough. For example, I was in situations in which I used up my time buffer and had 2 hours remaining until timing out. Then, I and my opponent played 10-20 moves in a row and my time buffer continue to be too small. I think we need a minimum of 8 hours to be the protected minimum of time remaining until timing-out. So, for example, if a player manage to make a move, then he needs to have at least 8 hours added to his time buffer.
2024-08-28 13:37:59 Draganov: On the other hand, we need to find a way to speed up the play of extremely slow players. For example, Sqaree, Luizz and Garun19 are painfully slow players. They usually play 1 move per day no matter how complex or not is the position. So, it is frustrating for their opponents who wants more dynamic games. I think if a player is forced to move in 8 hours such slow players will be in situation in which they need to make 2-3 moves per day, which is acceptable for both sides.
2024-08-28 13:42:29 Hagbard: That would save the sleep. But it would also bring us back to the times when a game could go on perhaps for six months. By the way, right now the "protected 2 hours" is removed, so we see how it works.
2024-08-28 13:45:53 Hagbard: The other idea corresponds to tightening the 2. long games criteria from 25 hours to 10 hours.
2024-08-28 13:48:04 Hagbard: ( - 10 hours not to be inhuman: 8 hours sleep plus 2 hours)
2024-08-28 17:21:35 Draganov: @Hagbard, I want to mention the situation with well-known players with new accounts or players who lower their rating on purpose. In the upcoming world championship a player called Раса is going to participate. We all know that Раса is Alex Hnefatafl under a new nickname. However, the rating of Alex Hnefatafl is 2020 while the rating of Раса is 1660. I think it will be better if a player is initially placed according his highest ever achieved rating with all of his accounts. So, Раса should be considered as Alex Hnefatafl and his high rating should be taken into consideration while making the pairs in the first round. Otherwise, he will start against weaker opponents and will face the top players in R3 with clean sheets.
2024-08-28 18:49:03 sqaree: Yes doing a move two times a day is reasonable, it's just that some people like me sleep 8 hours at night and work 8 hours during the day so it was just impossible
2024-08-28 22:07:05 Dimetr: Time x5 is more than enough. Even x2 was enough. No matter how busy we are, we can always make two moves a day
2024-08-29 03:25:07 ChaolAibhne: Registers for the WTF Hist.Hnef. tournament.
2024-08-29 03:25:16 ChaolAibhne: Registers for the WTF Sea Battle tournament.
2024-08-29 03:25:29 ChaolAibhne: Registers for the WTF Race Games tournament.
2024-08-29 08:48:06 Hagbard: Svend Nordmand https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRtfqpQ6Y68 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYVTv15y2qI
2024-08-29 10:21:12 Hagbard: Paca/Alex is the highest ranking player registered for the tourn. at the moment and would be in top of the setup. It was positive last year to show the setup of game matching beforehand. Some days before Sep. 15th I'll show the setup.
2024-08-29 10:49:51 Draganov: @Hagbard, why I can't see the max rating for Frenir and Cdafo. They both are wonderful players (very strong and with interesting playing styles) and I want to know more about them. Are they just different nicknames of well-known players? I think it will be better if we have as much visibility as possible and if a player has more than one account, all of his accounts to be placed together in the rating list like Herjan, Fjorlag and Siegfried are all placed with the same rating of 1800.
2024-08-29 11:34:25 Hagbard: Those aliases are duplicates, and so the max ratings are integrated with other aliases.
2024-08-29 12:19:32 garun19: Registers for the WTF Copenhagen tournament.
2024-08-29 12:25:08 Draganov: Yes, but it will be good to know exactly to whom these aliases belong.
2024-08-29 13:45:05 Hagbard: Linden https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwY-riaBbiI
2024-08-30 10:16:26 Hagbard: Speaking of Paca/Alex - I would very much prefer to use the name "Alex Hnefatafl", because adm. is more difficult with the cyrillic letters. Since there are two names.
2024-08-30 11:39:22 garun19: Registers for the WTF Copenhagen tournament.
2024-08-30 12:11:02 Hagbard: TheMatrix registered for Hist. Hnef. but played 0 games.
2024-08-30 12:48:31 Hagbard: Info. Two weeks till start of tourn.; these players from last year have not registered: Platypus, Ramzi, Draganov, Lalli The Hunter, Sybil, casshern, floki, arcrue, mrcrow, Gingie339, jilles, OdinHimself, ekve2, fiji270, konrad7890
2024-08-30 13:17:53 Draganov: @Hagbard, it seems that TheMatrix played two games in Historical Hnefatafl-w 13x13 (Dimetr 2)
2024-08-30 13:37:45 Hagbard: yes 5 and 6 moves and then timed out
2024-08-30 13:38:16 Hagbard: Historical Hnefatafl-w 13x13 (Dimetr 2) Balance measured to +1.29, which is ok. Sea battle tafl-w 13x13 (Parlett) Balance measured to +1.62 but still rather uncertain.
2024-08-30 15:03:19 Draganov: Yes, maybe we need to ignore games that timed-out and not allowed players with only timed-out games to participate. So, TheMatrix must have to complete at least one full game.
2024-08-30 15:55:37 Hagbard: Info: Draganov's idea of long game criteria 2 going down to 10 hours is added (for new games). When a game reached about 130 moves, time per move is limited to 10 hours.
2024-08-30 16:21:29 Draganov: @Hagbard, what about the protected minimum time before timing out? Is the protected minimum 10 hours as well?
2024-08-30 16:55:07 Hagbard: 10 hours is a ceiling. The protection is 0 and the flag will fall.
2024-08-30 18:22:29 Hagbard: kulning https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yK9G8p4TM10
2024-08-30 21:00:41 Draganov: @Hagbard, it seems that my proposal of the timing is not implemented. I proposed to have 8 or 10 hours minimum protected time.
2024-08-30 21:02:01 Draganov: We could have time buffer functioning like before but when the time buffer is used up, then 8 hours are added after each move. So, a player will never time-out during the night.
2024-08-30 22:10:44 Hagbard: It's already all in the timing. If it functions for all games now, it'll also work for the tournament.
2024-09-01 07:30:25 Hagbard: Skammelsøn https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flaUrVqv7hY
2024-09-01 07:42:03 Hagbard: Sensommer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtybpHxSL8g
2024-09-01 07:50:13 Hagbard: Nu falmer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuZhwLLJ-28 Vi pløjed https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KynmacpbB74 sommersalme https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z45RruFz8SM
2024-09-01 09:40:18 Hagbard: Finished tournaments: Sea battle tafl-w 13x13 (Parlett): #1 Draganov and Casshern, #3 Paca Saami Sahkku 3x15 (Kaafjord): #1 Tonythebook and Holidayinnes, #3 Rosk, Potapych and Colophonius Historical Hnefatafl-w 13x13 (Dimetr 1): #1 Casshern, #2 Dimetr and Draganov Historical Hnefatafl-w 13x13 (Dimetr 2): #1 Paca abd Draganov, #3 Casshern Daldos 3x16: #1 Chaolaibhne, #2 Jrton80, Holidayinnes and Rosk Frisian Dablo0 11x9: #1 Rosk, #2 Jrton80, #3 Themightyglider Saami Daabloe 11x9: #1 Rosk, #2 Jrton80, #3 Tonythebook Daldos 3x14: #1 Jrton80, #2 Rosk, #3 Tonythebook, Potapych and Themightyglider Copenhagen Lewis cross 11x11: #1 Draganov, #2 Jilles, #3 Steveh6883 Daldos 3x12: #1 Tonythebook and Jilles, #3 Potapych Frisian Dablo 11x9: #1 Rosk, #2 Jrton80, #3 Brave-frog Fetlar 13x13 (Viking Siege): #1 Tonythebook, #2 Fraech, #3 Masterluke Saami Sahkku 3x15 (Kaafjord): #1 Holidayinnes, #2 Potapych, #3 Tonythebook Sea battle tafl-w 13x13 (Parlett): #1 Draganov, #2 Commentjouer and Tonythebook Historical Hnefatafl-w 13x13 (Dimetr 1): #1 Draganov, #2 Masterluke, #3 Rosk Historical Hnefatafl 7x7 (Irish Brandubh 2): #1 Masterluke, Colophonius and Themightyglider Total Hnefatafl 11x11: #1 Draganov, #2 Tonythebook, #3 Jrton80 Daldos 3x16: #1 Holidayinnes, #2 Potapych, #3 Tonythebook Saami Cuhkka 5x5: #1 Jrton80, #2 Rosk, #3 Tonythebook Historical Hnefatafl 7x7 (Irish Brandubh 2): #1 Colophonius, #2 Paca, #3 Themightyglider
2024-09-01 18:40:41 Hagbard: About Sea battle 13x13 games. At the moment we have Sea battle tafl 13x13 (modif. Parlett), balance -1.09 from 338 games. Sea battle tafl 13x13 (Nielsen), balance +1.31 from 116 games. Sea battle tafl-w 13x13 (Parlett), balance +1.62 from 22 games. There's not time to test the new "Sea battle tafl-w 13x13 (Parlett)" much. If we want 13x13 for the second round, "Sea battle tafl 13x13 (Nielsen)" is a safer choice.
2024-09-02 03:04:42 cacreal: Registers for the WTF Race Games tournament.
2024-09-02 09:57:48 Draganov: Registers for the WTF Race Games tournament.
2024-09-02 09:58:01 Draganov: Registers for the WTF Sea Battle tournament.
2024-09-02 09:58:16 Draganov: Registers for the WTF Hist.Hnef. tournament.
2024-09-02 09:58:30 Draganov: Registers for the WTF Copenhagen tournament.
2024-09-02 19:49:07 Pirat: Registers for the WTF Hist.Hnef. tournament.
2024-09-03 10:55:46 Hagbard: How the Cop. tourn. would be set up with the players registered so far: http://aagenielsen.dk/wtfturnering2024.php
2024-09-03 14:07:11 Draganov: @Hagbard, what is the reason Cacreal to be placed as the number 1 in the list. I don't mind it but I am just curious.
2024-09-03 18:56:30 Hagbard: It is a small change, so that family is not forced to knock each other out to get a point. Perhaps in a later round but not in round 1.
2024-09-03 20:56:42 Draganov: Well, sounds like a good and intresting idea. I think it is good to face players outside of your family in the first round (Cacreal and Holidayinnes are brothers and Garun19 is their father plus Bingoboy who is Cacreal's son, a real tafl family). Moreover, Cacreal is worth to lead the group this year since he is one of the leading players here.
2024-09-04 09:17:01 Hagbard: More setups shown: http://aagenielsen.dk/wtfturnering2024.php
2024-09-04 19:18:22 Luizz: Registers for the WTF Hist.Hnef. tournament.
2024-09-05 12:45:24 Luizz: I registered for the Historical Tournament, however, the Tournament Page only shows a (C) behind my name. Why is that?
2024-09-05 13:15:06 Hagbard: sorry, it was a typo error; corrected.
2024-09-05 19:09:45 Hagbard: Most active Hnefatafl countries on this site Aug. 2024: 1. UK 2. Bulgaria 3. USA 4. Moldavia 5. Russia 6. Belgium 7. France 8. Canada 9. Germany
2024-09-05 19:31:03 Colophonius: @Hagbard Could you please remove me again from the race game championship tournament? At the moment I simply don't have the time to participate, although I would like to. I'm sorry
2024-09-05 19:40:09 Hagbard: ok
2024-09-06 18:17:59 Hitchcock: Registers for the WTF Copenhagen tournament.
2024-09-06 19:18:46 xerxes: Aage - I think I've discovered a bug in Sahkku (unless it is a feature I did not know about which might contribute to me losing all the time !). In my game as White against Chaolaibhne in T832 I have thrown X, 2, and 4. Some of my men have yet not started and the next to start abuts the King, which is currently Black. I have discovered that if I use the X on the unstarted man beside the King he starts, but the X remains an option, and I can therefore start all of my remaining unstarted men before continuing with the three moves of X, 2, and 4. I have cancelled the move in case you want to have a look at it.
2024-09-06 20:58:17 Hagbard: thank you, that sounds very unfortunate. I'll try to fix it tomorrow
2024-09-07 10:31:04 Hagbard: fixed
2024-09-07 17:07:25 xerxes: Thanks Aage
2024-09-08 06:16:24 Hagbard: One week till start of tourn.; these players from last year have not registered: Platypus, Ramzi, Lalli The Hunter, Sybil, casshern, floki, arcrue, mrcrow, Gingie339, jilles, OdinHimself, ekve2, fiji270, konrad7890
2024-09-09 20:08:04 brave-frog: Registers for the WTF Copenhagen tournament.
2024-09-09 20:08:19 brave-frog: Registers for the WTF Hist.Hnef. tournament.
2024-09-09 20:08:47 brave-frog: Registers for the WTF Sea Battle tournament.
2024-09-09 20:09:02 brave-frog: Registers for the WTF Race Games tournament.
2024-09-10 14:22:57 OdinHimself: Registers for the WTF Copenhagen tournament.
2024-09-11 07:18:23 Раса: Registers for the WTF Sea Battle tournament.
2024-09-11 07:18:30 Раса: Registers for the WTF Race Games tournament.
2024-09-11 12:40:28 MasterLuke: Just wondering, would it be interesting to try out some 'w-versions' (ie 'white begins') of the Tyr and Odin games? These games are pretty well balanced as they are, but I'm curious to know if in case white begins: would it make a difference?
2024-09-11 22:48:01 Draganov: @MasterLuke, I invited you to some unrated games in Odin variant but to be honest I think these Odin variants are bad, slow-paced and dull. The commanders are practically useless since the king is captured from 2 sides. After removing of the immortal knights the game is unplayable. The only playable variant on big boards would be if we bring back the IMMORTAL Knights (they cannot be killed and can capture opponent's pieces by jumping over). The Martens variant on 17x17 worked well but the change with the removing the immortal knights killed this variant on 17x17 board. @Hagbard, please bring the old variant back with a different name.
2024-09-11 22:53:54 Draganov: Actually I saw that the right variant is still available in the archive. However, it is not active. It is called now Alea Berserk 17x17 (Martens 0). @Hagbard, could you please open this variant to be played. I really like it.
2024-09-11 23:23:20 MasterLuke: @Dragonov: let's "agree to disagree" about your opinion regarding Odin 17x17. In the past we tried the original game (indeed known as 'Alea Berserk 17x17') with the immortal knight and he proved to be a hindrance rather than a helping piece. Yes, It's true you and I played it again a few times recently and it proved to be fun indeed. It depends on the type of players and it takes a special kind of strategy, I guess. Now, to say the current 'Odin 17x17' (which is 'Alea Berserk 17x17 without the immortal knights) is unplayable or slow-paced, is a bit of a stretch, really. It had a fine balance, as I remember. That being said, I'll gladly accept your invitation to play the unrated games.
2024-09-12 00:15:58 Draganov: The problem with the old variant was that in the beginning it was played with immortal knights that are unarmed and cannot capture. However, after that a bug occured that made the immortal knights able to capture. This made the knights so powerful that they were removed because they seemed unstoppable. However, I proved in some of my games that there is a way to neutralize them.
2024-09-12 06:09:05 MasterLuke: @Dragonov: In that case, we're talking about a new variant. I suggest we call it 'Dragonov-Tafl' and the old 'Alea Berserk 17x17 (Martens)' should lay burried in the archives. Or better yet we call it 'Dragon-Tafl'... Let's add a bit of fantasy or mythology here and consider the immortal piece a dragon (who's on whites side) instead of a knight :D Anyway, it's up to Hagbard to decide whether he opens this variant or not.
2024-09-12 10:19:58 Hagbard: 3 days till start of WTF tournament. NB! the tournament will actually start around Sep. 14th 18 o'clock Danish time! (and is thus ready also at Sep. 15th 0 o'clock.) The setup is updated: http://aagenielsen.dk/wtfturnering2024.php About new variants, it is better to wait until the tournament is well ahead.
2024-09-12 23:24:21 floki: Registers for the WTF Copenhagen tournament.
2024-09-13 08:51:46 Hagbard: NB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The games start tomorrow Sep. 14th at about 18 o'clock Danish time. Deadline for registering is tomorrow Sep. 14th 12 o'clock Danish time. When the games start, please move before 3 days or else the games time out.
2024-09-13 11:16:20 Hagbard: https://www.dr.dk/nyheder/seneste/se-billederne-nordlys-over-danmark-i-nat
2024-09-13 12:03:19 Dimetr: I wonder where is Casshern? Won't he come to battle this year?
2024-09-13 13:35:06 Silent Bob: Registers for the WTF Hist.Hnef. tournament.
2024-09-13 13:35:45 Silent Bob: Registers for the WTF Sea Battle tournament.
2024-09-13 21:32:35 jilles: Registers for the WTF Race Games tournament.
2024-09-13 22:11:02 Красное Солнышко: Registers for the WTF Copenhagen tournament.
2024-09-13 23:35:49 casshern: Registers for the WTF Sea Battle tournament.
2024-09-13 23:36:09 casshern: Registers for the WTF Hist.Hnef. tournament.
2024-09-13 23:36:21 casshern: Registers for the WTF Copenhagen tournament.
2024-09-14 11:09:04 Antonius: Registers for the WTF Copenhagen tournament.
2024-09-14 11:10:31 Antonius: Registers for the WTF Copenhagen tournament.
2024-09-14 19:38:59 Hagbard: May Loki give you laughter as you go!!
2024-09-19 12:34:34 Luizz: In my last game against brave-frog in the historical world-tournament, he timed out and thus I won. However, I lost 6 rating points. @Hagbard, could you look into this and check why this happened?
2024-09-19 21:12:02 Hagbard: corrected
2024-09-19 23:09:17 Jrton80: Registers for the WTF Race Games tournament.
2024-09-23 13:10:30 ChaolAibhne: Registers for the WTF Race Games tournament.
2024-09-24 20:31:30 Luizz: Quick question, as I cannot find it and it may be relevant: Is there a rule that after x moves without capture the game ends in a draw in Copenhagen?
2024-09-24 20:48:50 Hagbard: With this long game you could perhaps end up with some questions for the umpire. A quick answer from the programmer is that it is not implemented. Instead there's the rule 10: 10. If it is not possible to end the game, fx. because both sides have too few pieces left, it is a draw.
2024-09-24 21:09:07 Luizz: Okay, thanks! The game can definitely still be finished, just wanted to make sure I'm not hit by a draw unexpectedly
2024-09-25 15:39:50 Hagbard: *** INFO *** Results for all players are not known yet for Round 1. But here is shown how the setups for Round 2 could be: https://aagenielsen.dk/wtfturnering2024.php It is the plan to start the Race Games Sep. 30th at about 18 o'clock Danish time. And if possible, all the Round 2's also.
2024-09-26 11:06:43 floki: @Hagbard, could you tell me why my name is not on the Copenhagen 2nd round list please ?
2024-09-26 12:41:18 Hagbard: It was an error, thank you for noticing. Corrected.
2024-09-28 13:31:12 Colophonius: Registers for the WTF Race Games tournament.
2024-09-28 13:31:17 Colophonius: Registers for the WTF Race Games tournament.
2024-09-29 07:50:58 Hagbard: NB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The Race Games start tomorrow Sep. 30th at about 18 o'clock Danish time. Deadline for registering is tomorrow Sep. 30th 12 o'clock Danish time. Also start round 2 for Hist. Hnef. and Sea Tafl, and if possible Copenhagen.
2024-09-30 18:24:35 Hagbard: May Thor grant you strength and courage on your way!!
2024-10-01 08:52:41 Hagbard: Info: Copenhagen round 2 could start any day soon at about 18 o'clock Danish time.
2024-10-02 14:15:08 Hagbard: Most active Hnefatafl countries on this site Sep. 2024: 1. UK 2. USA 3. Bulgaria 4. Canada 5. Russia 6. Germany 7. Moldavia 8. France 9. Belgium
2024-10-05 21:31:49 Draganov: @Hagbard, is it possible to make a table with the results from the WTF championship like in the previous years? I think it is nice to have a visibility on what is going on and how the other players are doing, especially in the Race tournament.
2024-10-05 23:41:23 Hagbard: It is here: https://aagenielsen.dk/wtfturnering2024_tael.php
2024-10-08 13:13:00 Hagbard: A comment on the next round of Copenhagen. Round 1 followed the whisk pattern. The current round 2 follows the oblique-lines pattern. The oblique-lines pattern in the current round matches players of distance 10, fx. 04-14. Which is a difficult challenge to player 14. There exists a whisk pattern, which is a logical next step from the one in round 1. It matches players a bit farther than round 1 but still more equal. If you are game for a try, this could be used for Copenhagen round 3? In the tournament page a possible setup for round 3 is shown for both patterns: https://aagenielsen.dk/wtfturnering2024.php
2024-10-10 08:10:31 casshern: The whisk pattern seems logical to me. Is that what we used last year or the year before? The only issue I see, in my opinion, is that the players on the low end should only have 2 matches. I can understand them having 3 or 4 matches in round 1, but after advancing past rounds 1 and 2 I think all players should have an equal amount of games. Also, I think there is still an issue with the timing. I timed out 2 games in round 1, where I had less than 2 hours to make a move/finish the game. Dont get me wrong, I was in a losing position in each game. So the outcome would not have changed had play continued. But I thought that we had a minimum of 8 hours to make a move during the tournament. Personally, I would prefer 12 hours. Is that not the case?
2024-10-10 09:16:15 Hagbard: Thank you. The whisk pattern level one was used last year also for round 1. Whisk pattern level two for round two is a first. Players in the whisk having 2, 3 and 4 opponents is to level the resistance. "Bottom" end plays against opponents about half as strong, and therefore the opponents are double in number. On the timing: The protection is 0. When a game lasted a long time (approaching a month), then not much is added to the time buffer at a move. The way to avoid that, is to try to not add up too much total time. And to help your fellow players, it's a good idea when the night comes at your opponent's location, to let your own clock run and wait to move until morning at his location. On your "My current games" page: at the bottom of the page, click "Enter" to "Show my games and time buffers". Here the time buffer left is shown, and in parentheses the current status of three additional parameters: - the time added to the time buffer at a move, in hours (depends on the total time used by the player). - the total time used by the player, in days. - time limit to do a move, in days (depends on the game length in number of moves). Fx. "Player: 6.5 days left of time buffer. (10h, 2.1d, 2.7d)" - means that 10 hours are added to the time buffer when you move; you have used in total 2.1 days for this game; you must move before 2.7 days.
2024-10-10 12:07:09 Draganov: @Hagbard, I also have some complaints regarding the timing. I think the protected minimum shlould be at least 8 hours. I timed out against Casshern in one of the Sea Battles in a complicated position. I was on a vacation abroad, woke up in the morning, saw that I have time on my time buffer (or I thought I had time), then went to the beach, had fun, went back at the hotel and in the evening saw the game was timed out. I was sure, I had at least half a day in my time buffer before timing out but I might have been wrong. I also don't like the idea of reducing the time of both players to 24 hours per move (which is going less over the time) if the game is longer than 100 moves. It means that Player A can be in a winning position, playing fast, beating his opponent during the whole game and Player B almost running out of time, managing to survive to move 100 and then winning the game on time just because Player A had personal problems at the moment and didn't manage to make a move in 24 hours (or less). I think it is a must to have minimum protected time of 8 hours and remove the rule for the timing reduced after move 100.
2024-10-10 12:24:11 Hagbard: A game of 100 moves and more, has typically only few pieces left and relatively simple structure. But the normal timing will probably take care of it as well -
2024-10-10 13:31:59 Draganov: There are many games with more than 100 moves in which the board is full of pieces. Look for example my win with the whites against Casshern from WTF 2021. After move 100 the position was very complicated. I think the only thing which we need to prevent with the time buffer is players who played only 1 move per day even if the position is simple (btw, such players play faster when they are winning). So, players who in losing position are starting playing slowly (1 move per day, refusing to resign the game and just prolonging the game as much as they can) need to be restricted. With the protected minimum of 8 hours per move if the time buffer is used up, the games will not last forever.
2024-10-10 13:44:42 Hagbard: Thanks for bringing it up. There are remarkably many long games this year. In those end games, the normal timer also intervenes, so the extra mechanic is redundant. It is changed to 1.5 days, and it is checked that no game was hit by the other value.
2024-10-10 14:54:37 Hagbard: Plan, if possible: Starting Oct. 14th at about 18 o'clock Danish time Race games round 2, Copenhagen, Hist. and Sea round 3. Possible setups shown: https://aagenielsen.dk/wtfturnering2024.php
2024-10-10 15:49:52 Draganov: I also would like to raise the question of the format again. In my opinion, the best format will be the one which gives us a memorable final battle (match). For example in Tennis tournaments, we have the two leading players separated from each other in two streams. Then, if they managed to defeat the other players from their streams, they will face each other in an epic final battle. I think a final match of 6 to 10 games between the two best players (not necessary the two with the highest rating but the two with the best performance during the championship) will be the best outcome of the WTF. If we have for example 20 players we can separate them into two groups and play against each other in round-robin format just like an ordinary tournament. Then the first two winners from each group advancing to the semi-finals (winner group A vs second from group B and winner from group B vs second of group A). And then a final match. Then the tournament will have only 3 rounds and will not last forever. Moreover, the majority of the players will be free to play outside of the championship after R1 and only 4 players will need to be involved in the championship for longer period of time (possibly till the end of the year).
2024-10-10 15:51:55 Draganov: And if there are more than 20 players we can separate them into 4 groups and only the winners of the groups will advance to the semi-finals.
2024-10-10 16:13:18 Hagbard: As for memorable tournament games, actually I enjoyed very much to see the round 1 which we've just had. It was so natural that the players played against the players which they did. It was a Battle of Brothers, all equal games.
2024-10-11 03:02:25 casshern: I have to say that I was very critical of this format the first couple years. However, I think we worked out most of the issues. I very much enjoy it now. I feel every round and match is challenging for me personally. I think it is that way for most players. And last year, we had fantastic finals in each tournament. We ended up with the best players in each tournament meeting in the finals. Besides the timing issue, I have one more thing I would like to bring up. Personally, I find it difficult to play in 3 tournaments when they all start at the same time with the next round starting 2 weeks later. Its hard enough for me to focus on the 12 games at a time, then I get another 12 games when I still have many games in crucial positions.
2024-10-11 03:03:01 casshern: I would suggest to stagger the tournaments a week apart continuously. ie, cop, hh, sb, cop, hh, sb, etc. This would mean that each round would take 3 weeks as opposed to every 2 weeks. The race games can either start between hh and sb or they can just start with sb since it has the least amount of players each year.
2024-10-11 08:12:50 Draganov: @Hagbard, why I am receiving only 0.2 additional time in the buffer after each move. Some days ago, I made several moves and received too little time addition. There is practically no way to revive the time buffer after it is used up and the game will be over on time and not because of the play. I think the most important thing is to have protected minimum of 8 hours. Otherwise, there is no point of playing like this. Deciding the game results on time is worse outcome than prolonging the games.
2024-10-11 09:42:43 Hagbard: There is a challenge to unite some contradictory factors such as: - the player should not have overwhelmingly many simultaneous games. - it is normal and good that a player joins more lines and often all. - the whole tournament should be finished within limited time. - it is an advantage to start a new round while the players are already present and quickly discover it, because they still play some earlier game. The game which determines the length of the whole tournament, use to be Copenhagen. So to limit this, it's important to start the next Copenhagen round immediately when possible. The race games are many but easy ( - or perhaps not so easy as I believe since I ended no. 8 ... ), so they can be started anytime. This year has shown that it might be possible to start a Copenhagen round every 14 days. Ideally one could imagine a rhythm of Copenhagen - 7 days - Hist. & Sea - 7 days - Copenhagen and so on. If it's done like this from the very start, so that the Hist. & Sea lines start with 7 days delay, it might work naturally. As of now, it's hard to say when each of the three lines will be ready for next round; there might be some waiting time before Copenhagen is ready. ----------------- Perhaps next step could be: Wait for next Copenhagen round. 7 days later, next Hist. & Sea round. The price would be, that some players are idle and must wait for some unknown time for the next games. ----------------- By the way, I use to halve the amount of work with the games this way: I move first against higher rated players, and second against lower rated players. That is half of the games. Rest of the games are just kept alive with an occasional move when required by the clock; of course being aware not to end in time troubles.
2024-10-11 10:03:28 Hagbard: - If we wait for the next tafl rounds like discussed, then we can as well use the time for the race games round 2 ?! So: NB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The Race Games round 2 starts tomorrow Oct. 12th at about 18 o'clock Danish time.
2024-10-12 14:40:18 Hagbard: When men meet foes in fight, better is stout heart than sharp sword.
2024-10-14 11:11:18 Draganov: @All, let's discuss the issue with the timing. I think with protected minimum of time that is enough to play (but not to prolong the game) like 8 hours the games will even be shorter because players in losing positions will not try to prolong the game by making moves only during the nights in order to time out their opponents. The games will be decided on the board and not on the clock. I suggest giving players protected amount of time which is 8 hours or another solution would be to make a possibility for a player to ask the umpire for additional time of 24 hours time for his buffer in order to complete the game which is about to time out. This asking must be reasonable and only in case the player asking is in a winning position. If the position is too complicated and unclear, then such asksing should be refused. In this way we are going to prevent situations in which Player A is winning in a forced way but lost the game on time. I think we are still in the process of experimenting with the time buffer and such changes like adding protected minimum of time could be implemented even now during the championship. The point of the championship is to find the champion who played the best tafl and not the champion who played dirty tricks with the time (playing only during night hours) and won the title on time. Let me know what do you think of protected minimum of time or adding additional time when needed and approved by the umpire?
2024-10-14 23:34:59 sqAree: Yes I wanted a protected minimum of time for years. It's not possible to go to sleep anymore otherwise. I timed out a few games in the WC also because I only had minutes of time after my opponent made their move. That's not even related to me being a notoriously slow player. I played a lot faster than usually in this tournament, my time buffers were often higher than those of my opponents. Sometimes I stay awake longer than usually just to play the last move of the night. And then my opponent is randomly awake at 4am and plays lol.
2024-10-15 09:41:53 Draganov: @Hagbard, could you make the protected minimum of time 8 hours and we can test it how it works? We can make adjustements in it in case the games are prolonging too much.
2024-10-15 10:06:13 Hagbard: I've involved the umpire concerning this game. Please do your best to finish the game.
2024-10-15 10:12:12 Draganov: I am ready to play fast during the day but Alex insist on playing only during the night hours. He tried to time me out 2 times last night (playing at 2 and 4 AM) and tried to time me out three times 2 nights ago playing at (2, 4 and 6 AM). However, he is not playing Copenhagen against me during the daytime. I have 2 hours left on my time buffer and playing with this time buffer only during sleep hours is impossible or at least inconviniant for me and my family. Practically this game is not a tafl game anymore (which from playing point of view is decided on the board since I am winning) but a contest of endurance and ability to play during night time.
2024-10-15 10:15:14 Draganov: Another solution for quickly finishing the game would be to give us both 12 hours without added time just to finish the game.
2024-10-15 10:16:19 Draganov: Then, the game will be over by tomorrow morning.
2024-10-15 10:17:52 Hagbard: Understandable. But the game is on the umpire's desk. Please do your best to finish it anyway.
2024-10-15 15:43:26 cacreal: I am happy to play my Copenhagen games against Draganov in white and black with a 1 hour total time period per player for each game at the time of his choosing. Live games last only 10 to 30 minutes so 2 hours a game would be generous. This would expedite what would otherwise turn into a month long + game.
2024-10-15 16:30:14 Draganov: @Cacreal, I am open to take up your challenge. If we play in R3 against each other, then we can arrange an hour and play the games in blitz.
2024-10-16 07:11:07 OdinHimself: @Hagbard: Please, check my game against Garun19. I had plenty of time buffer, he didn't. After my move last evening he had about 5 hours to move and my time buffer was days. But I lost the game by timing out.
2024-10-16 08:24:55 Hagbard: The Garun19/OdinHimself Copenhagen game checked: Black's last move was Oct. 15th 18:41 White's last move was Oct. 15th 18:47 After this, black's time buffer is 4.6 hours; black has used in all 15.4 days. Time added per move 15 minutes. 4.6 hours later, Oct. 15th 23:24, black timed out. After white's last move, white's time buffer is 5.5 hours; white has used in all 13.8 days. Time added per move 15 minutes.
2024-10-16 12:47:12 OdinHimself: @Hagbard: How can I lose by time out if I was the more active player? Garun19 had moments of not making any moves for more than 36 hours. Last time I checked I had several days in my time buffer. And most important thing - I never received the red message about how much hours I have to make a move. I think you should check the game status again. Otherwise I will concider this loss as unfair. I am far away of complaining and you and all members here know this is true, I haven't posted anything in the forum in many months, but this timing out is unfair and I will not tolerate it without any Solid reason.
2024-10-16 14:32:00 Hagbard: The profile of OdinHimself's 44 moves: move number draw time added time time buffer total time 1 1.7 hours 10 hours 6.5 days 0 days 2 3.5 hours 10 hours 6.5 days 0.2 days 3 0.1 hours 10 hours 6.5 days 0.2 days 4 3.9 hours 10 hours 6.5 days 0.3 days 5 8.9 hours 10 hours 6.5 days 0.7 days 6 3.7 hours 10 hours 6.5 days 0.8 days 7 4.4 hours 10 hours 6.5 days 0.9 days 8 10.7 hours 10 hours 6.5 days 1.4 days 9 0.4 hours 10 hours 6.5 days 1.4 days 10 13.9 hours 10 hours 6.3 days 1.9 days 11 6.9 hours 10 hours 6.5 days 2.2 days 12 19 hours 10 hours 6.1 days 3 days 13 4.7 hours 10 hours 6.3 days 3.1 days 14 15.6 hours 10 hours 6.1 days 3.8 days 15 15.2 hours 10 hours 5.9 days 4.4 days 16 8.4 hours 10 hours 5.9 days 4.7 days 17 11.6 hours 10 hours 5.9 days 5.2 days 18 40.7 hours 10 hours 4.6 days 6.8 days 19 5.2 hours 9.5 hours 4.8 days 7 days 20 1.9 hours 9.2 hours 5.1 days 7.1 days 21 4.5 hours 9.1 hours 5.3 days 7.3 days 22 6 hours 8.8 hours 5.4 days 7.5 days 23 6.3 hours 8.5 hours 5.5 days 7.7 days 24 4 hours 8.1 hours 5.6 days 7.9 days 25 3.4 hours 7.9 hours 5.8 days 8 days 26 5.5 hours 7.7 hours 5.9 days 8.2 days 27 7.1 hours 7.4 hours 5.9 days 8.5 days 28 7.8 hours 6.9 hours 5.9 days 8.8 days 29 8.3 hours 6.5 hours 5.8 days 9.1 days 30 19 hours 6 hours 5.3 days 9.9 days 31 18.8 hours 4.8 hours 4.7 days 10.7 days 32 8 hours 3.6 hours 4.5 days 11 days 33 10.9 hours 3.1 hours 4.2 days 11.4 days 34 24.5 hours 2.5 hours 3.3 days 12.4 days 35 8.5 hours 0.9 hours 2.9 days 12.7 days 36 12.6 hours 0.4 hours 2.4 days 13.2 days 37 10.1 hours 0.3 hours 2 days 13.6 days 38 19.3 hours 0.3 hours 1.2 days 14.4 days 39 15.2 hours 0.3 hours 0.6 days 15 days 40 10.6 hours 0.3 hours 0.2 days 15.4 days 41 0.5 hours 0.3 hours 0.2 days 15.4 days 42 0 hours 0.3 hours 0.2 days 1
2024-10-16 14:32:46 Hagbard: 42 0 hours 0.3 hours 0.2 days 15.4 days 43 0 hours 0.3 hours 0.2 days 15.4 days 44 4.6 hours 0.3 hours 0 days 15.6 days
2024-10-16 15:49:25 OdinHimself: So, all we need to win a lost game is not to play fast untill the time buffer of the other player decreases along ours and then just lurking in the night when he's not active and strike the deadly final move? Great strategy! I think I'm done with the tournaments here. Despite my willingness to take part in the world tournament year after year. My final words.
2024-10-16 16:31:48 Draganov: @Hagbard, I think the suggested by Casshern 12 hours protected minimum is much needed. I and Sqaree and seems OdinHimself also want protected minimum time. The protected time could be applied after the time buffer is used up. So, after using the 6 days of the time buffer, the player will have 12 hours for each of his next moves. No additional time added, just 12 hours to make a move and if succesfully made a move within 12 hours, another 12 hours will be given for the next move and so on until the end of the game.
2024-10-16 16:45:58 Hagbard: I have an idea for reducing the night timing problem. But it can be implemented only after the tournament. Below is listed a full profile which shows how the timing works. As is seen, it's very important not to use too much total time.
2024-10-16 17:09:59 Draganov: Yes, but total time is generated mostly during sleeping hours.
2024-10-17 10:05:43 Hagbard: *** Info *** Copenhagen and Sea next round can probably not be started for a long time more than a week. But Hist. next round could be ready any moment, and will then start at about 18 o'clock Danish time. Possible setup shown here: https://aagenielsen.dk/wtfturnering2024.php
2024-10-17 13:12:59 Hagbard: NB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The Hist. Hnef. round 3 starts tonight Oct. 17th at about 18 o'clock Danish time.
2024-10-17 15:41:22 Hagbard: NB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The Sea Battle round 3 also ready tonight Oct. 17th at about 18 o'clock Danish time.
2024-10-18 07:30:05 casshern: @Hagbard: I am very confused. The tournament seems very different from years past. Firstly, I want to touch on the timing issue 1 more time. Regardless of how much total time we use up each game, 2 hours per move is just not feasible. We should not be obligated to stay up around the clock in order to not time out. If I remember correctly, in years past we always had 12 hours per move even if our buffer was depleted. Personally, my schedule is much busier now than in years past. I find it difficult to make moves even twice a day. Most days I can only make moves in the even (around this time) and my opponents usually are not up. When I sleep they make a move and I am not able to make another move until they are sleeping again. I wish I could play more moves during the day, but my schedule is just too demanding. Perhaps this was the case between Odinhimself and Garun10. I do not know, but it is clear to me that Odinhimself was in a winning position and should not have lost on a time out. This outcome is very disappointing. I thought this tournament was designed to find the best player not the fastest player. Or the player who can stay up the longest.
2024-10-18 07:58:18 casshern: Secondly, I am confused about the third round match ups. Particularly Sea Battle where 3 of the 5 matches are rematches from a previous round. In years past I thought rematches were avoided so that players could have new opponents each round until inevitably rematches could not be avoided anymore. Everyone has a rematch this round and Alex has 2 rematches. It just does not make sense to me when we could have third round with no rematches. The 5 matches should be: Potapych/Casshern Casshern/Chaolaibhne Chaolaibhne/Alex Hnefatafl Alex Hnefatafl/Draganov Draganov/Potapych With these matches for round 3 each player will have played every other play once. This seems the more balanced approach. Furthermore, I am matched up against Alex Hnefatafl again in Sea Battle. I noticed Alex has not played Draganov in Sea battle or Historical Hnefatafl, why is that? I thought HH and SB would follow the same set up for the third round as Copenhagen. Where player 00 plays 03 and 04 and player 01 plays 02 and 05. This seemed the most logical next set up, just wondering why you deviated from this? These matches would make more sense to me for HH round 3: Dimetr/Casshern Casshern/Chaolaibhne Chaolaibhne/Paul7 Paul7/Alex Hnefatafl Alex Hnefatafl/Draganov Draganov/Silent Bob Silent Bob/Dimetr
2024-10-18 08:38:40 Hagbard: Casshern, you're quite right. The night trouble of a couple of players is a very bad effect which is not intended. Your games from previous years were as a test run through the present timing x5, and the test showed that they would have no problems. The total time parameter has the function of limiting the overall time the tournament would last. It takes into account the game length in number of moves, therefore several very long games are seen with no time trouble. The 2 hours protection last year did not have the desired effect, because at midnight it was tempting for a player to stay and play on, since he'd always have 2 hours more. A few years ago, 25 hours protection resulted in the tourn. lasting till March 19th the following year. Until now, 93 Cop. games are completed, and only 5 games timed out.
2024-10-18 09:17:43 Hagbard: As for setups, those solutions look fine, I didn't discover them. When the number of players is less, then there's not room for a whisk setup. Only for oblique-lines.
2024-10-18 10:03:48 Dimetr: Hagbard! Thank you for setting up Dimetr2 for 3d round! I think, it will be interesting Now it seems? that white is stronger a little. So, maybe we can make black first move? (After tournament? Or, maybe right now... why not? Now, only a few players have made a couple of moves. But, I don`t insist). Sorry, I not saying this earlier, I didn`t expect Dimetr2, in the 3rd round. I understand, that you are already tired of us, during this tournament)))
2024-10-18 10:13:00 Hagbard: The Dimetr2 has balance +1.29. But the slight positive overweight could give better games. Generally it is more difficult to be white and have to find creative ways to escape. And generally easier to be black and destroy white's ideas.
2024-10-18 10:24:03 Hagbard: A word with the new round: Even in the sheath, the sword must be sharp.
2024-10-21 06:33:50 Hagbard: *** Info *** When possible some day soon, Copenhagen round 3 will start at about 18 o'clock Danish time. Possible setup shown here: https://aagenielsen.dk/wtfturnering2024.php
2024-10-21 12:11:36 Hagbard: NB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The Copenhagen round 3 starts Oct. 23rd at about 18 o'clock Danish time. (To give the Hist. and Sea players two days more to get their games going as discussed 11.10.) Setup shown here: https://aagenielsen.dk/wtfturnering2024.php
2024-10-21 13:49:40 Draganov: @Hagbard, I can't see OdinHimself in the setup for R3. Was he eliminated? I think he didn't lose 5 games.
2024-10-21 15:11:31 Hagbard: No lost only 2 games and at worst 3. The Oct. 16th looks like a resign. If it is not, it is simple to change the setup, but preferably before 23rd 12 o'clock..
2024-10-21 21:11:08 Draganov: I spoke with Odinhimself and he told me he is going to take part in the R3 and didn't quit.
2024-10-21 22:10:00 cacreal: Lets' keep the Cacreal vs Draganov games for round 3 copenhagen even with Odin added back in - I am excited for our speed matches
2024-10-22 07:54:37 Hagbard: changed
2024-10-22 10:53:25 Hagbard: New in gallery: Classical Board Games Day last Saturday.
2024-10-22 15:15:04 Hagbard: New member of the large forum, Mark Jones, sent a post about Alea Evangelii 19x19: https://aagenielsen.dk/hnefataflforum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=164&p=1839#p1839
2024-10-23 14:52:45 Hagbard: May Odin give you knowledge on your path!
2024-10-23 14:53:41 Hagbard: *** info The Copenhagen round 3 works like round 1: Games are against equals next in line!
2024-10-25 08:37:51 Hagbard: *** info The Race games tournament finished and the Race Games Master 2024 is: Plamen Draganov ("Draganov") !
2024-10-25 09:59:08 xerxes: Congratulations to Draganov. Well played.
2024-10-25 11:51:40 Draganov: Thank you Steve (Xerxes). I am glad to become a Race Master for the second time (first time in 2022). I think this year the Race championship was great. There were no controversies and problems, the games were played fast and everyone played against everyone. Personally for me, the Race tournament was more enjoying and interesting than the Tafl tournaments and I put more motivation and focus on it compared to my tafl games. I think with the Race games, we found a great field to explore new games, strategies and learn more about the history of the board games. I am working on an article presenting a simple race game, called 'Five lines' or in Greek 'pente grammai' which is supposed to be a predcessor of Daldos and probably Tafl. You can find some paintings of it from Ancient Greece where Ajax and Achilles played it against each other. I think it will be great if Hagbard can implement it and some other more complex variants of Sahkku too.
2024-10-26 04:36:47 cacreal: @Draganov - thanks for the blitz games of copenhagen it was fun and it would be nice to have that variation available similar to chess.com site for a speed game
2024-10-26 09:23:03 Draganov: @Cacreal, thanks for playing Copenagen blitz with me. It was fun and both games were nice examples of good play with the blacks. I think the only way to have blitz games at the moment is when both players agree for a starting time and play fast. Maybe a good idea is to have the possibility to start a game with just 1 hour time for thinking or even less (20 minutes no time added, 1 minute protected time minimum) just for blitz games. A tournament of this kind could be organized with a pre-arranged time that is good for everyone with an additional rule. The game starts only when both players made 1 move. If the game timeout without the second player start playing, then this game must be restarted on the next day at the same time.
2024-10-26 09:24:52 Draganov: Then, we can have a blitz champion like in chess where we have world blitz championship. I am also thinking of a Copenhagen with whites starting first. I think it is worth to test such a variant too.
2024-10-26 10:10:21 Hagbard: Just a small comment on the balance thing. As the case is with the Dimetr2 game, the slight positive balance can be a basis for better games. Because white is rewarded for being inventive. The slight positive balance helps white to succeed with the good ideas. Whereas if white is not inventive enough, then white is doomed even with the positive balance. And such a constructive positive balance we have in Copenhagen: +1.33 Dimetr2: +1.29 Sea 13 Nielsen: +1.31 and some others.
2024-10-26 19:47:53 xerxes: I've been talking to Aage re a 'blitz' Daldos competition - say 8 or 10 players playing each other in two games simultaneously with a maximum time of 60 or 90 minutes for all the games, so 18 games on the go for each player. Unfinished games would be won by the player who has used the least time in that game. It will take a bit of setting-up, and we may have to test it with an unofficial tournament once the World Championships are over. Could be fun ?
2024-10-29 10:36:02 Hagbard: *** Info *** When possible some day soon, Hist. and Sea round 4 will start at about 18 o'clock Danish time.
2024-11-03 00:25:15 Hagbard: Oftentimes it is not numbers that wins the victory, but those who fare forward with the most vigor.
2024-11-05 09:22:58 Hagbard: Most active Hnefatafl countries on this site Oct. 2024: 1. USA 2. Bulgaria 3. UK 4. Germany 5. Russia 6. Canada 7. Moldavia 8. France
2024-11-05 09:49:44 Draganov: @All, I am thinking of a new great Grand Masters tournament. In 2014 Schachus, Crust and Nath played against each other in such a tournament with Nath winning the tournament. I propose something similar but little bit bigger as a tournament. It is obvious that in Copenhagen variant there are top 5 players who are equally strong (except Casshern who is little bit ahead). These players are Casshern, Draganov, Alex Hnefatafl, OdinHimself and Cacreal. I think it will be great if we manage to organize a tournament where these 5 players are playing in round-robin format playing 4 games against each other (16 games per player for the whole tournament). The games could be distributed in 2 rounds. In each round a player is playing 2 games (black and white) against each of the other players (8 games per round in total for each player). I think playing 8 games it will not be too much for each of the players.
2024-11-05 19:31:38 Hagbard: One's back is vulnerable, unless one has a brother.
2024-11-09 00:35:41 Hagbard: Og de bar stadig øl ind https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPCNomY98BQ
2024-11-10 08:55:32 Hagbard: *** Info *** When possible some day soon, Cop. round 4 and Hist. round 5 will start at about 18 o'clock Danish time.
2024-11-10 08:57:30 Hagbard: Fear not death, for the hour of your doom is set, and no one can escape it.
2024-11-13 12:56:34 Hagbard: Andreas Mogensen and Odin https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icwaTJNGeVs
2024-11-13 14:42:01 Hagbard: The warrior dies, but his name lives on.
2024-11-18 07:44:53 Hagbard: Where wolves hunt, there gather the crows.