2010-04-15 18:28:40 Darkont: add in to online version 4 side king for win.
2010-04-15 19:41:54 Nielsen: 4 side capture of the king will be added as an option to the online version, it could take a week or two before it is ready.
2010-04-22 13:11:31 Darkont: To Nielsen - thanks for you quick reaction. Question, why in to rules attackers side moves first, in to game first moves king side?
2010-04-22 16:19:55 Nielsen: To Darkont - The reason is the 2-side king kill game. In that game it is hard to play the defenders against a skilled human opponent. And it appears to be even impossible to win with initial ordering 1 if the attackers move first and do the first 12 moves a certain way. The computer does not use the trick but with a human opponent the defenders hit the wall. If however the defenders move first they have a better chance and with initial ordering 2 even more. But for the 4-side king kill game the defenders' game is easier and attackers can move first like the rules say. At some time the program will be modified to do this for the 4-side king kill game though it will complicate the program. If anyone can demonstrate that the defenders also win the 2-side king kill game when attackers begin, the program can be modified for this also.
2010-04-22 18:18:15 Darkont: I say about 4-side version. this variant more difficult, but more historical.
2010-04-23 23:17:29 Nielsen: It is now an option on the invitation whether white or black moves first.
2010-04-24 13:21:57 Nielsen: Still an open riddle: Can someone find a good way for the defenders to win against a very skilled human opponent in this game: 11x11 board, initial ordering 1 king killed from 2 sides attackers move first
2010-05-03 22:14:42 Adam: I think the thing that makes it almost impossible for the king to win in this (excellent) online hnefatafl is the hostile corners, allowing the king to be taken against the corner square. Personally I find the king being taken by two players makes the game far too hard for the king for a balanced game, and with the hostile corners it seems overly hard on the king.
2010-05-03 22:32:57 Adam: Its says in the initial ordering note: "Ordering 1 has the characteristic, that if black begins, black can block the game by occupying the squares B2, B10, J2 and J10 in the first four moves." But thats not true if white responds with pieces in for example: G7(to)G10 and F7(to)J7. This is an extension of an aggressive opening sacrifice move invented by a friend of mine and I named it Millar's Gambit after him. Its a powerful opening for white.
2010-05-03 22:45:47 Adam: A question about ranking: does the computer get points knocked off when we humans beat it? Its looking very smug up there as black.
2010-05-03 22:59:32 Nielsen: The computer indeed looses points when it is beaten or wins points otherwise. As the computer's human opponents are unidentified, they are all ranked 1500 in the computer games.
2010-05-10 23:10:19 Nielsen: The Shetland rules should function now in the Hnefatafl over the internet.
2010-05-11 16:58:38 leidulfr: Adam, I can't understand your gambit. Could you explain it again? Thank you.
2010-05-12 08:24:13 Nielsen: It is now possible to offer a draw. Thanks to Crust for pointing out the importance of this feature.
2010-05-13 20:57:37 Adam: to leidulfr: The Millar Gambit is whenever white opens by offering a sacrifice by advancing from E5 E7 G5 or G7 outwards to the rows of black pieces, eg E5 moves to B5 or E2. Black can usually respond by taking the piece, (Gambit accepted, A4 to B4 or D1 to D2 respectively) or by ignoring it and continuing to build their fence (Gambit declined). Its basically tossing a grenade into the attackers ranks and it makes effective barrier building very difficult for them.
2010-05-14 01:13:20 leidulfr: to Adam: Could you give a concrete example, please?
2010-05-14 06:31:00 Adam: to leidulfr: In essence its an opening move for white, regardless for how black opens, providing the move is attacking one of blacks men on F2, F10, B6, J6. So if whites first move can be E5 to E2, thats the Gambit as long as black still has a man on F2. See how it affects black. Its really no more complex than that.
2010-05-16 01:55:35 leidulfr: Thank you Adam, I'll think it over.
2010-05-17 17:17:38 Nielsen: On the various rulesets - After many test games here it seems that when two skilled players (considering the number of games I lost this would not include myself...) - the Scandinavian variant (2-side king kill) is the hardest to play for white. The Millar gambit is a must if white is to have a chance, and it also helps to let white begin and to start with ordering 2 (white men closer to corners). The "Outside Scandinavia" variant (4-side king kill) is less difficult to white and the Shetland variant even more. The 4-side king kill still does not make the game all too unbalanced in favour of white as white may well loose. As for the Ashton center square I don't know if it helps white or black more or maybe both.
2010-05-18 18:49:59 Nielsen: Thanks to Crust for drawing my attention to the hammer and anvil rule on the Shetland island Unst. This rule is now an option.
2010-05-26 19:52:05 crust: To all hnefatafl players! The world championship of hnefatafl will be held on Saturday 31st July 2010 on the island of Fetlar in Shetland, UK. It will be a quickplay tournament with 10 seconds per move. Winner gets title of "Hnefatafl Grand Master"
2010-06-30 22:32:11 crust: Thank you Mr. Nielsen for this amazing website.
2010-08-03 11:53:50 crust: I'm still world champion. All too easy... ;-)
2010-08-05 02:55:35 Claudio: Parabens pelo site adoro Tablut.....sou do Brasil
2010-08-14 14:27:04 Adam: Hello forum. I think its time to start off another forum discusion. I've been playing Hjuke at the 9x9 trebeta rules, and must admit im undecided as to the rule set being balanced or not. One thing I would say though, is that in board games we find a simple model of the world, and so any rule ought to correspond with something in the reality that the game represents. The pieces represent soldiers or military units clearly enough. The throne is a starting point, affording varying degrees of castle-like protection according to rule set. the corners represent escape routes, or friendly safehavens. As safe havens it makes sense that they would be hostile only to attackers. But I would have expected this to be the case in all variants. My personal conclusion is that rule variations are useful to handicap stronger players in uneven matches, much as in the japanese game Go. To have so many rule variants otherwise makes the tafl game family unweildy and somehow unsatisfying. I find this part
2010-08-14 14:31:28 adam: ran out of space! ...I find this particularly the case with alterations to the kings squares rules. Altering rules according to need to handicap makes the changes more meaningful. Id like to hear what other players think about this interesting and onging problem.
2010-09-09 16:20:12 Nielsen: I think the various rule details are an effective way to adjust handicaps in uneven matches. But besides this, there is also the situation where you often play against the same opponent and maybe reach a point where you think you have "solved the game - my best strategy is this, your best strategy is that and then the game goes like this". In such a case you can bring new variety into the game by changing the board size or change among more rule variants.
2010-09-09 21:44:51 Nielsen: And also: when a rules set is balanced on one board size, the same rules set is not necessarily equally balanced on another board size.
2010-09-12 11:39:33 Adam: All good points.For me the 11x11 board feels like an open ended strategy game, while the 7x7 feels like a child's puzzle (like noughts and crosses) and the 9x9 somewhere in between, like a training board. The 19x19 alea evangelii is absurdly easy for the multitude of attackers using basic hnefatafl rules. the 13x13 I've not tried. Perhaps the discrepancies in starting positions indicate that the game started with a variety of tactical troop arrangements that players could choose from before beginning? I still have a problem with altering the taking rules for the corners and board edge, simply because the end game becomes so totally different, demanding a different way of thinking and whole new strategies that would be useless with other corner rules. I suggest people try playing two games simultaneously with different corner rules. It is remarkably difficult as the brain thinks its playing the same game, yet the corner dynamics are so different that one is forced to switch back and fo
2010-09-12 11:40:15 Adam: ...rth between two very different gaming styles. It makes it hard to imagine mastering the game like that, they are different games. it would be easier to adjust the brain if the corners appeared differently with the rule variations (placing white pieces on them for example to indicate friendliness to whites.) But that is exactly what I mean by it becoming 'unwieldy' and inelegant. the decorations on the saami board point to this idea, perhaps making it clear which squares are friendly to who.
2010-09-13 13:12:16 crust: Fascinating stuff. It does seem to me that Fetlar rules (with the strongest King) give the most balanced play for experienced players, but beginners often find that white wins more often than black. If so, I would prefer to redress the balance by giving black some help with basic strategy, rather than changing the rules to handicap white by weakening the King. Of course, there's no substitute for practice and experience...
2010-09-15 22:05:01 Nielsen: Though it is possible to experiment freely with combinations of rules details with the options window, just a couple of rule sets were used in real by the players on this site. A few players chose the "Scandinavian" rules set, could be because it is the default choice. Two players chose the Fetlar rules set, could be because the Fetlar rule is necessary in a masters' game. One player experimented with the Trebeta rule and the Unst rule. All rest of the players chose the "Outside Scandinavia" rules set. Perhaps the rules sets could be seen as stages from beginner to master: beginners - Scandinavian rules, experienced players - Outside Scandinavia rules, masters - Fetlar rules, beyond masters - Unst rules! This is all for the 11x11 board. On the 9x9 board it seems in my opinion that the Trebeta rule becomes a necessity for white to balance black, the king being captured from two sides, but I need more test games to try it out. The first four rule sets are all used in real by hnefataf
2010-09-15 22:06:19 Nielsen: ... The first four rule sets are all used in real by hnefatafl player groups somewhere in the world. As for Trebeta there's more to it as the Trebeta Living History group seems to capture the king from two sides also in center.
2010-09-16 19:09:56 Niding: Very interesting to find other people playing hnefatafl. In my (limited) experience the following rules give a balanced game. 1. The king is weaponless. 2. The king wins when he reaches the edge, not just the corner. 3. No special rules for any squares, except perhaps the throne (have only tried the variant then only the king can pass the throne). 4. The king has to be surrounded on four sides (or three plus the throne). I am very interested in trying the rules out.
2010-09-27 16:48:44 Pedro: What happen if white build a castle at the firs stage of the game?.He only needs 8 soldiers on closed formation and two squares in the centre of tis formation.One square for the king and the other for the next move.The king repit his moves and it isn´t imposible to captured any soldier.Is that draw?
2010-09-27 16:56:20 Pedro: I have another case.The king attacks one corner and a defender stopped him, suddenly the king attacks other corner and the same defender stoped his way too.White and black repits this moves.Is that draw?
2010-09-29 16:38:13 Adam: as in chess three repeat moves means a draw. The forced draw is a very important factor in hnefetafl, giving white a chance at breaking blacks defence if black decides to divert forces to preventing a forced draw. There are a variety of castles white can build, one with as little as four men plus king on the board edge. The simplest is a two move opening E5 to D5, followed by E6 to E4 if allowed by white. Then the cowardly king can shuffle back and forth, forcing a draw.
2010-09-30 17:41:08 Pedro: Thanks Adam, I understand your explication. Do you have any book to explain strategy of this game?
2010-09-30 18:55:35 crust: Pedro - I am writing it! If you want a preview, e-mail me at firstname.lastname@example.org
2010-10-01 22:09:50 Adam: Pedro - I suspect Crust's book will be the first dedicated to the game. Meanwhile, I would say that this website is a great place to discuss tactics. Strategy varies somewhat from rule set to rule set, though there are plenty of common factors. Just post up any specific questions or strategy ideas. : )
2010-10-02 15:25:32 Pedro: ok, Adam.I suggest to play with time, like chess.With 30 seconds extra for one move.This is Fischer´s system.
2010-10-29 09:46:41 MaC: Dear all, I love this page to find very good hnefatafl-gamers all over the world. Unfortunatly I often waiting unsuccesfully for an opponent in the evening times. May be we could arrange something like an official training time. I propose: Tuesday 19:00 - 21:00 GMT+1 (danish time)
2010-10-31 12:31:41 Adam: to Pedro: Regarding the king and the corner, you will find there are very different game dynamics according to the rules governing the board edge. Put simply, if the king is allowed to be captured at the board edge, then he can suddenly be captured with two players using the corner as a third man (providing the corners are set to be hostile to white pieces). If the board edge is not hostile, he is safe standing next to the corner, unless of course the rules allow king capture with two men, and the corners are hostile to white. This is exactly the point I raised in my thread dated 2010.08.14. as each variant requires very different strategy.
2010-10-31 12:35:27 Adam: to MaC: Good idea about regular times. Maybe we should have a couple of days to increase chances of availability? Also, i've noticed people (in europe) often play later, so maybe a late evening would be good, wednesdays 21.00 to 23.00 for example, in addition to the tuesday evening?
2010-11-14 16:32:51 Pedro: Crust ,i repit my ask about the attack on the corner.I have this position whit Adam, but his king was not killed.Could you explain to me what happens, thanks.
2010-11-14 17:53:12 crust: Dear pedro - sorry I lost chat window again. It's all about the differrence between Edge Rule 1 and Edge rule 2. If you don't specify any particular rule variations, you get Edge rule 1, which means the king can be captured at the edge of the board by 3 enemy pieces, or by two enemy pieces when he is right next to the corner square (the corner square then acts as the third enemy piece for this purpose). These are the rules we were playing with. However, when you were playing adam you must have either specified edge Rule 2 in the options, or "Fetlar Rules" which has the same effect: the King can not be captured at the edge of the board, and therefore he would also be safe from attack by two pieces when standing next to the corner. I'm sorry if I caught you out - I tried to warn you by chat message, but maybe it had already stopped working... Just remember to check which edge rule the game has - it is stated just next to the board. I hope that helps! hasta luego, crust
2010-11-14 19:20:29 Adam: handy hint. When i'm playing i always have a second window open showing the rule variation definitions. Its hard to remember all the details otherwise. Maybe Aage could make it so that the appropriate rule definitions appear in the game window (it already says which rules you are playing with, but the one line definition would help too, if there is space)
2010-11-14 19:49:44 Nielsen: I will look into the suggestion of Adam. Of all the possible combinations of variants, the players here have for months used only two: the king to be captured from 4 sides and can be (edge rule 1) or cannot be (edge rule 2) captured on the edge.
2010-11-15 13:14:49 Pedro: Thanks dear friends of hnefatafl, I understand .I think is preferable that the white king could be captured by only two soldiers near the corner like my game whith Crust.The game is more interestring and difficult .
2010-11-15 19:12:36 Jens: Great game! Really enjoy playing the 9x9 version. I have played many games as White ( Kings army - 9x9 board) with capture on two side set to difficult level. I can escape ninety percent of the games as White and notice the AI does not remember its mistakes. Would it be possible to make it remember its previous mistakes? This would make it much more enjoyable and consistant. Great game and thanks for sharing.
2010-11-15 21:44:37 Nielsen: To Jens: I can see what you mean, there is room for improvement with the next generation of the AI. Until then, when you need a greater challenge you could sometimes have a match against a human opponent through the "Hnefatafl over the internet" function.
2010-11-16 11:05:45 Adam: To Jens: I second that! Human opponents will always surprise you.
2010-11-21 12:28:48 crust: To Aage - I like the way you've simplified the options down to the two basic favourites. Much less confusing.
2010-11-21 14:25:20 crust: To Aage. I just had a proper game - it's totally brilliant - the grid references and the moves list are really good improvements. Now I can keep a record of interesting games, and maybe learn something. A great help to understanding tactics and strategy.
2010-11-22 15:33:33 Nielsen: It seems that by combined forces the users here have pinned down the Hnefatafl variant which works really well: the Fetlar game with or without king capture on the board edge. This was not at all obvious half a year ago, at least not to me. I've had a countless number of matches here with opponents by these rules, and the matches have been challenging no matter whether playing the white or black side. It looks like the other variants are more for further experimenting and for game researchers. Yet for curious and searching souls it could be left to explore the 9x9 board also. Many thanks to all who till now participated in exploring this ancient game!
2010-11-26 12:42:03 Adam: Its nice seeing how many games people have played. And wow, 15 thousand games played against the computer! Thats a lot of hnefetafl. Maybe the website could do more to encourage people to play against other people, as opposed to suggesting it. I think all the regular players would agree that playing against human opponents is even better than practicing against the computer.
2010-11-27 12:37:33 Nielsen: The counting of games has run since April 23rd this year, same as the rating. So the comp did 15000 matches in just seven months. At the bottom of this page is a world map of visitors. It resetted recently but I saved a copy before the reset: below the forum you can see the map of visitors Oct. 2009 - Oct. 2010. This is one reason I built the Hnefatafl over the internet function in the first place, seeing the carpet of spots spread over half the world. Some percentage of the spots must represent some people with a good interest for the game, and it seemed an idea to let these users contact each other and have some proper matches across country borders. This function has run for nine months, and I am much surpriced that the computer is so popular over real people. First match over the internet here was played February this year. My first version of the computer game was put on the net January 2002.
2010-11-28 15:16:13 Adam: to Aage: Wow. All the more impressive. It shows the game really does have an attraction for people today. I have yet to generate enough interest in my home town to form a club, so I encourage people to come to this website where there is a good chance of meeting someone for a challenging game. This website is much appreciated. One thing I can't work out about the leader board, is what causes people to disappear from it?
2010-11-28 15:47:19 crust: It must be either black holes or spontaneous combustion
2010-11-28 21:44:00 Nielsen: Do you mean from the rating list?
2010-11-29 13:10:05 Adam: to AAge: yes, from the rating list. I notice that new players appear, then disappear, and I was wondering what causes some to stay on the list, while others vanish
2010-11-29 15:25:01 Nielsen: I like Crust's explanation! Could also be global warming. The technical expl.: names on the rating list are automatically cleared after one month of inactivity, though a few enthusiasts are flagged to be kept anyway.
2010-12-02 08:56:08 Roderich: Hello there, can someone tell me which exact mode of playing (2-side, 4-side kill, etc.) is actually chosen for the championship and/or tournaments? I'm lucky to have found this site, well done! Greetings from Germany
2010-12-02 15:45:48 crust: Hello Roderich. The World Championship is 4-side kill hnefatafl using the "Fetlar" rules, that is, the king cannot be killed at the edge of the board. I used these rules also for the tournament in Yorkshire. This version of the rules has the strongest white king - all the other versions limit the white king's powers in some way. I should also mention that the World Championship is a quickplay contest, with a maximum time of ten seconds per move. This makes the games very exciting, as you have to rely on instinct (and practice) with no time to analyse individual positions. And of course you make mistakes because you're in a hurry. There are plans for a tournament in Germany - I don't know which rule set they will use, but it will probably be the same (fetlar) set. I look forward to playing you some time, all the best, crust
2010-12-02 16:02:50 Roderich: @ crust: Thank for your quick answer! I really would like to play a hnefatafl tournament some time, maybe I should watch out if there's something going on near here... can you maybe give more details about this one in Germany you told of? I'm sure we'll meet sometimes, I visit this website almost every day to practice for I'm quite a beginner. Greetings, Roderich
2010-12-02 16:55:57 crust: Aage: Thanks for the archive of all the previous matches! Good idea.
2010-12-21 23:11:07 crust: Happy Crustmas to all hnefatafl players. Best wishes for 2012, I hope we meet up at a tournament somewhere!
2010-12-23 11:12:44 Pedro: Happy Christmas Crust and every body of hnefatafl
2010-12-28 12:31:51 Nielsen: A Happy New Year 2011 to all users of this site and hope for many good games in the new year!
2011-01-15 18:57:23 Roderich: @ Nielsen: Ah, and if at any time you need more translations in German, just tell me.
2011-01-16 14:28:19 crust: To aage: I just found the "replay" function...awesome!!
2011-01-16 14:42:31 Roderich: yeah, very good function indeed
2011-02-10 17:50:45 Hjuke: I have tried a number of games on the 9x9 board recently. These games seem to run much like the 11x11 board, only quicker. On 9x9 one meets the dangerous lines, the corner fight etc., just like we know it from 11x11.
2011-02-11 16:30:00 Nielsen: I have looked through this thread and have a couple of follow ups. Niding mentions 16.9.2010 a variant with a weaponless king, which should function well and balanced. The rules look like the medieval Hnefatafl descendants Ard-Ri (Scot), Tawl-Bwrdd (Welsh) and Alea Evangelii (Saxon). The reason why I did not implement this rules variant, is that this site concentrates on the original *Viking game*. I guess it is ok for a medieval king to be a very noble, old man with not enough physical strength to lift a sword. Close to the situation in chess, where the king is the weakest piece on board next after the peasants. As for the Viking king, however, he would never see a battle against a hostile enemy flock, as Hnefatafl simulates, because such a Viking king would not survive a day among his own men!
2011-02-12 23:47:35 crust: to Aage: what's going on with the computer's game ratings? each time it loses, its rating goes UP by about 30 points!!
2011-02-13 10:57:08 Aage: To crust: a bug sneaked in yesterday, it's corrected now; thanks for telling.
2011-02-13 12:56:04 crust: to Aage: that's a relief. I thought maybe the Machines were taking over, like in Terminator
2011-02-13 14:42:45 HAL: I know I've made some very poor decisions recently, but I can give you my complete assurance that my work will be back to normal. I've still got the greatest enthusiasm and confidence in the mission.
2011-02-13 16:20:54 crust: to HAL: just open the pod-bay doors, wise guy, or I'm going to take an axe to your processors and give you a re-programming you will never forget!
2011-02-16 18:12:27 crust: Does white ALWAYS win in the 9 x 9 version? Has anyobody won a 9 x 9 game, playing as black, against a decent opponent?
2011-02-18 06:58:09 Hjuke: I lost a number of games on the 9x9 as black and won none. If noone can find a way to win as 9x9 black, it leads to a conclusion: then the 9x9 king cannot be a 4-side capture king but must be 2-side capturable.
2011-02-18 19:17:53 MaC: I started playing Hnefertafl long time ago on a 9x9 field with a 4 Side king capture rule, but without a draw. So white has to escape anyhow. In that case the rules are leveled equal to each side.
2011-02-19 12:37:46 crust: To MaC: you may be right, but I think I can prove to you that white always wins 9 x 9 with 4-side capture. Will you accept the challenge?
2011-03-03 20:18:49 Hjuke: Doing test games on the 9x9 board. So far it looks like the Scandinavian museum rules (2-side king capture) are precisely targeting this board.
2011-03-29 00:26:10 Kostas: Am i the only one that he can not win the 11:11 with black side on the hard mode? in the final point the king just repeat endless the same move and i follow him...even if it pass half an hour the same thing goes on...I think a rule like stratego rules for movements (for example you can not move more than 3 on row the same pioner) it would be usefull. Sorry for my bad english :)
2011-03-29 09:51:13 Nielsen: to Kostas - If the comp is encircled, it defends the king by building a castle of king's men around the king so that the king can never be captured. This is really a draw: noone wins. To simplify the software (which is complicated already), it is rated as a computer win, but in return the human can withdraw as often as he wants to, whereas the comp never withdraws. In the 11x11 hard mode you win against the king by moving in faster, so that the castle building is disturbed. On the 9x9 board the comp hasn't time or space enough for a castle. When you play against human opponents ("Hnefatafl over the internet"), both players in this situation press the "Offer draw" button, and the game is correctly rated as a draw.
2011-03-29 11:04:44 crust: to Kostas - The computer is quite good at getting a draw, either by getting onto an open 3rd row, or by building a little "fort" in the middle of the board. You have to make sure you don't leave the third row from the edge unguarded. (rows 3 and 9, and columns c and i).If you have no black pieces on the third row from the edge, and the king gets on to it, he will go back and forth between the two corners forever - this would be declared a draw in a tournament after 3 moves, but the computer will happily go on forever. So, stop it happening by controlling those 3rd rows! Also, you can stop white building a "draw-fort" in the middle of the board by moving your men in to occupy key squares. The vital squares to control are d5, d7, e4, e7, g4, g7, h5 and h7. You only need to occupy a few of those to stop white building the draw fort. Of course, white will try to get behind your pieces to capture them, so watch out! Good luck - hope to play you some time
2011-03-29 11:20:39 crust: to Kostas - by the way, it may seem annoying that white can force a draw, but you will be glad of it when playing as white! Sometimes by threatening to get a draw, white can force black to move pieces into dangerous positions, where they can be attacked, or maybe black will have to use pieces that are already busy guarding the corners, so a corner becomes unguarded again. The whole draw thing is a vital part of hnefatafl dynamics, and is one of the things that helps to balance the forces of white and black.
2011-03-29 20:55:32 kostas: to crust and to Nielsen : Thank for your answer..
2011-03-30 00:55:01 crust: to Kostas - You're welcome. I got the co-ordinates wrong in my answer, I meant e8 not e7, and g8 not g7. Sorry about that.
2011-06-17 14:19:34 Nielsen: The search machine statistics tells how this game has been spelled with any incredible combination of letters. A few examples are: hnafletafle, hnafeltafl, hefentafl, hemftalafl, hrfanatafel, hnefatl, hnfafl, hfenatl and hftanafl! All these strange words were forwarded to this page.
2011-06-17 17:27:23 crust: could be useful in scrabble : )
2011-07-21 10:35:01 crust: I just heard from Shetland that the world championship has been CANCELLED. : (
2011-07-22 22:00:39 Adam: @crust. Thats sad news. It had been thinking of suggesting Aage some sort of online championship. We have the ratings which are great, but it might be stir up some gaming interest and be fun to have an annual play off of some kind on this website?
2011-07-23 00:02:05 Aage: @Adam: Good idea, it's ok with me. The Fetlar Hnefatafl home page has not mentioned a cancelling yet, however. Perhaps they might find someone else to head the championships this year. In the unlucky situation that they shouldn't succeed with this, we could have an "unofficial tournament" here. Some details would not be the same, most important it is very difficult to properly simulate the quickplay, so I guess we would stick to the usual 5 minutes timeout. Besides this, it would certainly be possible.
2011-07-23 10:53:59 Aage: Maybe done something like this?: Rules must be the Fetlar rules. Every player plays one white and one black game against all other players (or at least against all who could win the competition). Would it be enough to do these games for 14 days, fx. August 7th-21st? How do the Shetlanders count points? 1 for won, 0 for lost and 0.5 for a draw? Could be fun if some of the Russians, Estonians, varyags, Vikings and Adam's and Tim's medieval warriors would join.
2011-07-23 13:55:39 Adam: Sounds great!
2011-07-25 09:56:47 Aage: The Shetland Times has an events list "What's On in Shetland - August 2011 + on". Above the list is written "These details are subject to change or cancellation without prior notification. Check with organisers if unsure." But as of today the Fetlar Hall event is still on the list.
2011-07-25 16:36:37 Aage: Tim Millar made me aware that a cancellation is actually announced at the top of the Fetlar championships home page, sorry I overlooked that. This means that it makes sense to go ahead with our unofficial tournament. And nothing much to wait for either. It could as well run already August 1st - 15th. The games can of course be done at any time of the day, but maybe we should encourage participants to be especially aware from 17 UTC and onwards, because this would be 18 o'clock in Britain and Spain, 19 o'clock in Germany and Scandinavia, and 20 and 21 o'clock in Eastern Europe. And morning in USA.
2011-07-27 17:41:35 Aage: Maybe it'd be an idea to loosen up the rule of two games per opponent? If I have ten games against crust, fx., surely nine are lost and with good luck maybe one is won. With still one point to split, that would be 0.9 for crust and 0.1 for myself. This way it is less important if you have a lot of luck in exactly two games.
2011-07-28 20:05:38 crust: I think it's ok to stick to 2 games per opponent - that's how it is done at a tournament, anyway. We are more likely to have problems because players become unavailable. In other words, people will start the tournament, play a few opponents, and then disappear. I hope that won't happen...
2011-07-28 20:30:06 Aage: I'd say they're welcome to play a few tournament matches for the fun of it - when the score is calculated these points are not included.
2011-07-29 11:06:01 Aage: The postfix "(tourn.)" seen in the rating list is added automatically for matches played from the tournament page.
2011-07-29 23:29:50 crust: to adam and hagbard: I greatly enjoyed watching your matches on replay. You are both as cunning as weasels! I am looking forward to trying to out-weasel you both....
2011-08-04 23:02:58 crust: congratulations to Jonas and Adam on their elegant demonstrations of the art of the hnefatafl draw fort. Beautiful games!
2011-08-05 00:01:58 crust: just watching tournament results coming in, it strikes me that these fetlar rules are quite well balanced; there is roughly an equal number of white victories, black victories, and a couple of draws.
2011-08-05 20:13:53 Adam: @crust: some really good hnefetafl being played. The game archive from the tournament will be a valuable tool for us all to study and improve our game.
2011-08-05 21:18:12 Roderich: to crust – Good game anyway, and in case you haven't got the message: I'm sorry for your dog. Greetings
2011-08-05 21:29:58 crust: to roderich: thanks, and greetings to you. I hope you are going to play in the tournament!
2011-08-06 23:55:18 crust: Scores so far in the tournament: Hagbard 4 points Adam 4 points Crust 4 points Shaunyman 2 points Jonas 1 point Hugues 0 points There are many matches still to play, and more players may join in at any time.
2011-08-09 22:32:22 Adam: regarding rule-set game balance: 7 black wins vs 6 white wins and two draws. Doesn't get more balanced than that.
2011-08-11 14:37:19 crust: To Adam: Thank you for an epic game! One of the longest, + easily as tough as any chess match.
2011-08-11 14:41:25 crust: To Aage: Thanks for making this tournament possible! I would like to propose that if there is not a clear winner on points, there should be a final round between the two highest scorers. Then we could animate it and put it on youtube. Because, frankly, the hnefatafl you can see on youtube is rubbish, no offence
2011-08-11 19:33:32 crust: re: tournament. MATCHES STILL TO BE PLAYED: Hagbard v Shaunyman Hugues v Crust Shaunyman v Hugues Crust v Shaunyman Hugues v Hagbard Adam v Shaunyman Jonas v Hugues
2011-08-12 13:05:45 Aage: To crust: if this round results in a shared no. 1, we'll take a second round until last man standing, as in football. I tested your youtube idea, and it can be done.
2011-08-12 13:33:06 crust: To aage: brilliant! To Roderich: tough game! well done. To Tafl Gild: Where ARE you guys?
2011-08-14 08:16:08 Hagbard: To Pedro: I saw you visited this site yesterday - you should join the tournament!
2011-08-14 20:51:08 crust: we already played this way round - I need to play you as black!
2011-08-14 20:51:57 Roderich: @ crust: ups, sorry... if you have time, we play the right one after that
2011-08-14 20:52:38 crust: ok
2011-08-15 14:53:22 Roderich: @ crust: If we have the game saved, let's play it until the end when see each other one day
2011-08-15 14:55:48 crust: to Roderich - i would like that!
2011-08-15 16:49:54 crust: to aage: re: Roderich v crust tournament game - a glitch caused this match to end prematurely- my board said Roderich had timed out, and gave me the win, but his board showed he had moved. We want to re-play the game, copying the moves exactly up to the point where it froze, and then carry on and finish it. I hope this is allowed!! So, When it says "Roderich/Crust black won" that's not true - not yet anyway. Thanks
2011-08-15 17:04:51 Aage: It's ok of course! I hope the technique works all right the next time. By the way the two half matches are on the list and can be seen in animation.
2011-08-15 17:29:41 Roderich: @ Aage & crust: Here's some IMPORTANT information about the reconstructed upcoming match: By some strange circumstances the move list doesn't show the right turns - sometimes there is a "timeout" where it shouldn't be and thus doesn't show the information about the turn, but the game continues until a certain point, although this point wasn't the last turn. From turn 30 on there's also a displacement of 1 round. It's quite confusing, but luckily I had the final window with the last turn openend when I tried to reconstruct the game from the beginning. The correct dates are the following. Only they can be the base of that game: (those with * are reconstructed) 1. - h1h3 2. g5g2 - f2c2 3. g6g3 - k4i4 4. f4f2 - h11h9 5. g2i2 - i4i3 6. f5j5 - a4f4 7. g7j7 - f4f3 8. f6f4 - g1i1 9. f4k4 - i3k3 10. j5j2 - a8c8 11. e5i5 - i1i3 12. j7j3 - f1j1 13. e6g6 - e1i1 14. d6d3 - a5a3 15. g6g2 - h3h2 16. h6h3 - i1i3 17. j2i2 - d1i1 18. g2k2 - j1j2
2011-08-15 17:32:48 Roderich: @ Aage & crust: CONTINUATION 19. k2k3 - j2j3 20. h3h2 - k7j7 21. e7e3 - g11g2 22. h2i2 - h9h4 23. k4i4 - f3i3 24. i5g5 - k8i8 25. g5g4 - g2h2 26. i4h4 - k6h6 27. g4g1 - b6b2 28. g1h1 - h2i2 29. h1c1 - c8c3 30. h4b4* - k5b5* 31. b4b3* - c2c3* 32. c1b1* - i2b2* 33. b3b4* - c3c1* 34. d3d2*
2011-08-15 17:48:40 Aage: I'll try if it is possible to fix the broken game with the correct moves.
2011-08-15 21:19:27 crust: Tournament update: These are the scores so far: (correct me if I'm wrong) Crust 7.5 points (not counting glitched game) Adam 5.5 points (unless we are disregarding Hugues' games, in which case, Adam has 3.5 points and would be in third place) Hagbard 4.5 points Roderich 3 points Jonas 2.5 points Shaunyman 2 points Hugues 0 points Roderich, crust, Hagbard, Jonas and Adam have all played each other twice
2011-08-16 12:00:43 Aage: The tournament completed - a lot of thanks for taking part and making this an event with a lot of fun and fine games, and congratulations to crust for the win! I included all points in the score list, like crust suggested, even if a few played only a couple of games, because it does not change the result. Before this competition I sent invitations to a number of reenactment groups and had hoped to meet some tough warriors here from the real battle fields. But maybe bravery with sword and shield is one thing and bravery at the Hnefatafl board quite another, or perhaps it will be another time... (that is, could be that Adam is one of the tough warriors -). A selection of eight of the games is posted as animations on Youtube.
2011-08-16 14:35:49 Roderich: @ crust: Congratulations crust!!! Although no other thing I'd expected ... :)
2011-08-16 17:32:15 Adam: Congratulations Tim. Well earned. Lets hope we can all keep the game activity levels up. I think everyones game has improved visibly through this tournament. Great fun, thanks for hosting Aage, and thanks for archiving the tournament.
2011-08-17 00:46:59 crust: Thank you for your kind words and good sportsmanship! I would like to add my thanks to Aage for all his hard work, making this tournament possible, and congratulations to ALL the participants on the amazingly high standard of hnefatafl we have seen here. I propose that we (the tournament players) form the nucleus of a new international hnefatafl society, to bring this incredible game to a wider public. Any thoughts?
2011-08-17 09:14:24 Roderich: to crust: I'm on board, captain! ;) I've already toyed with the idea of founding a tafl club in my town, but I think it's really hard to find enough people in a smaller place like Rostock. Playing over the internet seems to be the perfect solution for the moment. Maybe we could add something like a well-arranged forum where there can be discussed strategies and questions from beginners with more detail. Greetings and happy week to everyone. Chris
2011-08-17 22:27:35 Adam: I think forming an international hneftafl society is a great idea. Count me in. Seems to me the first job is agreeing collectively on this rule set thing. Not throwing out other rule sets, but agreeing on international tournament rules. (no prizes for guessing I'm a fan of the fetlar rules.) Rule agreement enabled football to take off, and I think its what is holding this game back. Of course we wouldnt be saying 'this is how the rules definitely were in viking times', but rather that they seem to be the ones that make the reconstructed game most playable.
2011-08-18 18:03:34 Beadle: Newbie here in NY state. I also think some kind of International Hnefatafl Society is a good idea. I recently discovered this game in the form of the 9x9 "Tablut". I like the 11x11 variant more. I was initially discouraged by the difficulty of playing as black, but looking at the tournament results, it actually looks more balanced that I had thought. I just need to improve my strategy, it seems. This game deserves a comeback.
2011-08-18 18:25:53 Aage: A structured forum is added, which could be useful for some more structured discussions about strategy, rules etc. The structured forum could be a supplement to the present, simple forum? The advantage of this simple forum is that any message is immediately and easily seen on the page, whereas messages in the complex forum more hide in the structure. The complex forum can do many things, however, fx. polls. Maybe Adam could create a poll for a voting about international Hnefatafl tournament rules?
2011-08-19 17:59:26 Beadle: I looked at the new forum, and I like it. I do have a suggestion though. Most web forums have a "misc" or "other" sub-forum. Perhaps one of those would be good. It could be used for, perhaps, showing off homemade game sets, linking relevant news stories, and so on. (To prevent it from becoming chaotic, the "Misc" sub-forum should be required to relate in some way to Hnefatafl, or other Tafl games.) This is just a casual suggestion, not a criticism.
2011-08-19 23:46:36 Hagbard: Update on the Fetlar rule-set balance from the tournament: 5 players (crust, Adam, Hagbard, Roderich and Jonas) completed all 20 games against each other, with 8 white wins, 6 black wins and 6 draws. Still a balanced result. As the Fetlar appears to be best balanced rules for the 4-sides king capture game (for strong players that is), it would be interesting to also clarify the 2-sides king capture game. For the 2-sides game to have a chance of balance, the king must win on the board edge. The 2-sides game could very well turn out to be far from as well balanced as the Fetlar game, but it would be interesting to have this verified with a good number of test games.
2011-08-20 00:14:23 sea slug: to Aage: how about a tournament of 9 x 9 hnefatafl some time? We could use the 2-side capture, escape-to-the-edge, hostile corners variation which seems to be the best balanced - a good tournament might give it a good road test, as it did for the Fetlar rules. In the meantime, I'm up for testing the 11 x 11 game with 2-side king capture
2011-08-20 09:25:21 Aage: There's already been done some test games with 11x11 board, 2-sides king capture, king wins on the edge - see link below to lists and animations. Up to now mostly white has won.
2011-08-20 09:38:48 Aage: @ sea slug: good idea of a future tournament with the 9x9 board! It could fx. be in November. With three months in between, different rules sets could actually regularly be road tested this way.
2011-08-20 11:53:03 sea slug: to aage: That's great! I will look forward to it. In the meantime, if that variation is to be the tournament rules, can you put a "9x9 tournament rules" button in the options, to make it easier to select the correct rules for practising? That would be really helpful. Cheers!
2011-08-22 04:31:19 Beadle: As the game is played here, the rule seems to be that black moves first. When I play against the computer as black, white(Computer) starts the game. Why is this?
2011-08-22 04:46:57 Beadle: Also, when I play against the computer, the king can be captured against the board edge. I only mention it because it's different, not to complain.
2011-08-22 07:19:23 Adam: Good questions from Beadle. I believe the computer plays the scandinavain rules. Though Aage will no doubt correct me if i'm wrong.
2011-08-22 10:19:26 Aage: Good questions. These two features are left overs from the ten years of development of the computer game. And yes, the very first version implemented was Scandinavian rules, computer playing black and starting. If Adam's poll turns out to point at Fetlar as a standard, I'll try to adjust the computer game accordingly.
2011-08-22 14:26:35 Roderich: @ Aage: Would this be in your opinion a correct standardised variant: a8c8*-e5e3-d1d3-f5c5 = d1d3*-g5i5-k4i4-g6g3 I just want to know if I'm doing the right thing here ...
2011-08-22 14:39:33 Aage: Yes exactly. In this case the normalizing is equivalent to rotating the board 90 degrees. But it is in real a very difficult thing to do and almost impossible not to make errors in the process. It should really be done automatically by some computer game-normalizing program.
2011-08-22 14:47:55 Roderich: Well, I would have done it by myself, step by step ... does such a program exist or do we have to make it exist?
2011-08-22 14:51:33 Aage: Alas, it does not exist. Maybe I can give it a try tonight.
2011-08-22 19:50:01 Aage: I gave it up, it's heavy programming.
2011-08-22 20:09:39 Roderich: no problem, it's not important enough to be worth so much work, thanks for trying
2011-08-22 21:28:17 Roderich: we've got a dumb spammer in our forum ... globalisation has begun ^^
2011-08-22 21:44:54 Aage: Incredible - only four spam free days.
2011-11-12 21:03:34 Roderich: Nice! What I somehow like is the new mechanic of draw forts - white must come out and fight! I just wonder, if maybe it is white now that is weaker because of only one chieftain (or what was its name)? And it is no longer the same, if start from west, east, north oder south. Let's play more matches to find out!
2011-11-12 21:12:11 Hagbard: When white looses its only extra help, the knight, as I did, white is definitely weaker. But we have yet to see the knight at work.
2011-11-15 18:03:20 Roderich: good work! :D the knight's an evil bitch from hell! right now, I know why white has only got one of them
2011-11-16 16:34:45 Hagbard: That's why there's only one!
2011-11-19 17:41:06 Roderich: That berserk turn was a killer! I really have to re-think my strategy! Greetings from very foggy Rostock
2011-11-19 21:05:52 crust: To Aage: I'm very happy for you to get rid of the ancient photo from Burnsall Viking Festival - more than a year old now! How about a gallery of hnefatafl sets made by players on this site?
2011-11-19 22:36:29 Adam: crust and Aage:My vote says keep the picture of the logs of war! Its inspiring to see the game being played and taught. But more pictures, absolutely!
2011-11-20 08:53:13 Hagbard: To Roderich: a lucky triple-berserk
2011-11-21 18:53:56 Aage: The Hnefatafl game is 1600 years old, and the Burnsall photos on Hnefatafl are but one year old, so - they're really very up to date! I think Burnsall is a good photo series, so if it's ok I'd agree with Adam in keeping it. The photos are moved to a new page with room for many more.
2011-11-22 01:02:15 crust: ok :)
2011-12-02 23:31:41 Hagbard: That the AI moves first both as black and white is a left over from the very first version and would be complicated to change.
2011-12-13 11:20:09 crust: to Hagbard: please can we have little ship symbols as playing pieces for sea battle tafl? and a watery texture for the board? That would be awesome. I'm not asking for an animation of captured ships sinking with a glug-glug noise, though come to think of it...
2011-12-13 11:25:58 crust: ...could be a viking ship, for example.
2011-12-13 17:33:08 Hagbard: Sea battle graphics could maybe be changed after New Year. Though the sea battle board is after all *seagreen* now.
2011-12-20 23:23:57 chuck ward: I really wish there was a good book on this game
2011-12-20 23:37:52 crust: to Chuck: coming right up... few more weeks
2011-12-23 06:04:28 chuck ward: to crust:How will I know its out? How can I get it? So excited
2011-12-27 20:57:31 crust: season's greetings to tafl players of the world! Happy new year 2012!
2011-12-30 10:34:33 Hagbard: A Happy New Year to all users of these pages!
2011-12-31 06:53:20 chuck ward: Happy New Year Tafl warriors
2012-01-19 17:46:03 Adam: Hello all, I wanted to hear peoples opinions of berserk hnefatafl? I am still getting the hang of it, but my impression is that it is an extremely playable, surprising and entertaining game. I really like Aage's reasoning behind the rule set and the new pieces. And importantly, the draw problem largely evaporates. Perpetual check is still available to a desperate king of course. If you haven't played it, give it a few games, its great!
2012-02-12 22:36:48 Hagbard: New in photos gallery: Oddur's Hnefatafl game board.
2012-02-13 19:56:27 Adam: Nice to see some more boards. I'm planning some interesting ones for a viking war exhibition. Will send photos.
2012-02-15 21:03:31 crust: Adam, please will you upload a picture of your amazing red versus blue hnefatafl set? Ta
2012-02-16 09:07:33 Hagbard: New in photos gallery: Damian Valle's Hnefatafl game. I'd never imagined that many ways to create a hnefatafl set. Here the leather bag with the pieces is also the game board!
2012-02-16 10:02:50 Hagbard: New in photos gallery: Beadle's Hnefatafl game.
2012-02-18 14:09:13 Hagbard: New in photos gallery: Adam Bartley's and Belinda Rush Jansen's Hnefatafl games.
2012-02-18 14:56:15 Hagbard: New in photos gallery: Tim Millar's beach hnefatafl set.
2012-02-18 16:17:50 Hagbard: The vertical Hnefatafl is in the photos gallery.
2012-02-27 01:04:10 crust: The new Copenhagen tournament has begun!
2012-02-29 00:45:28 crust: To Hagbard - is it possible to cancel a tournament game once started? I have 2 tournament games started with maC, but I'm playing white in both for some reason. If one could be cancelled without it counting as a loss for either of us, that would be great
2012-02-29 08:16:57 Hagbard: To crust - games less than 4 moves are canceled without rating after 3 days of inactivity, so the crust/MaC game of 1 move disappears automatically
2012-02-29 21:20:28 crust: to Hagbard: Thanks, I didn't know that.
2012-03-02 10:34:04 Hagbard: New in photos gallery: chuck ward's Hnefatafl games.
2012-03-03 12:40:50 crust: Hello Kennari! I remember you from tafl gild. Greetings! crust (aka hnefataflman)
2012-03-06 19:13:48 crust: copenhagen rules guide now attached to tournament page
2012-03-06 19:31:38 crust: Who put new batteries in the sructured forum? I just had to look away - it was too brilliant
2012-03-13 10:28:42 Hagbard: New in photos gallery: shaunyman's hnefatafl sets.
2012-04-12 18:49:38 crust: To Hagbard: the default version is now the one with the edge hostile to the king? I thought it was felt that that version was unbalanced in favour of black...?
2012-04-12 20:55:34 Hagbard: But Fetlar is the default on the expert page.
2012-04-12 22:30:41 crust: oh, right! I see now.
2012-04-16 12:48:01 Hagbard: Fetlars page about Hnefatafl World Championship (fetlar.org/hnefatafl-world-championship) informs: "2012 Championships to be held in Fetlar usually in early August".
2012-04-16 20:46:47 crust: re: world championships... no details yet from Grandmaster Kelly of the exact date and time.
2012-04-16 22:37:09 crust: Nel 2008 lo Hnefatafl fu riportato in auge grazie a Peter Kelly sull’isola di Fetlar nelle Shetland, dove si tengono ogni estate i campionati mondiali di Hnefatafl.
2012-04-18 16:22:28 Chuck Ward: I was thinking we should have a game send invites
2012-04-23 01:08:31 crust: to Hagbard: the "current board positions" facility is brilliant! Good work.
2012-04-24 08:42:28 Hagbard: Gives the overview.
2012-05-05 14:59:19 Barba: Absolutely fantastic site for a fantastic game by the way. Thanks for that!
2012-05-08 21:21:23 Hagbard: New in the photos gallery: barba's hnefatafl set.
2012-05-15 17:44:27 Hagbard: New in photos gallery: the Hnefatafl sets of epoc in making.
2012-05-16 22:54:23 Hagbard: New in photos gallery: Adam Bartley's photos of Hnefatafl sets in Midgard Historisk Senter, Norway.
2012-06-17 11:59:18 crust: hey - the last line of chat appears in blue on the game summary page - that's very good! I like the recent changes - especially the "current board positions" view - look at all that tafl!
2012-06-17 12:04:06 Hagbard: :)
2012-06-18 23:31:25 Roderich: I'd like to join crust in his praise. Best tafl site and a fountain of pondering and knowledge! Greetings from Germany, Chris
2012-06-21 15:38:01 crust: to Hagbard: I think some beginners are accepting invitations to play, not realizing that it is correspondence not real-time play (because they only do one move, then realize it's not a real-time game, and wander off, never to return)... Do you think it could be a bit clearer that these are correspondence games, and maybe people shouldn't accept invitations if they're not going to return to this site regularly to play through the whole game? Just a thought. Not trying to discourage beginners of course, just make things a bit clearer :)
2012-06-21 19:34:52 Hagbard: - I added the note of "correspondence" on the text line, we'll see if it helps.
2012-06-21 19:47:11 crust: It's worth a try! ;)
2012-06-25 16:20:53 Hagbard: Sea battle tafl rules and berserk rules added.
2012-06-26 14:03:36 Hagbard: Noone used the Rachunek tafl variant for three months, and the players who used it are now all playing only the simpler descendant, Sea Battle tafl. Sea Battle tafl turned out to work very well - the balance at this moment is 11 white wins, 7 black wins and 2 draws. For Rachunek tafl the balance is 10 white wins, 2 black wins and 2 draws (for the games on this site). I suggest Rachunek to be considered obsolete on this site and replaced by Sea Battle tafl.
2012-06-28 00:43:18 crust: Sea battle is awesome
2012-07-12 23:19:02 Hagbard: The previous game machine is ditched (Java) and a new installed from scratch (iPad/iPhone), therefore a few errors can occur for a while.
2012-07-22 13:50:36 Hagbard: The Shetland Times' "What’s On in Shetland – August 2012 + on" doesn't mention the Hnefatafl Championship scheduled for early August?
2012-07-23 17:23:11 Hagbard: If Fetlar misses the tournament this year again, I suggest we have an informal one here like last year? Rules: Fetlar as usual. Timeout: One move per one day, ten moves per ten days. Start of tournament: When we know for certain if Fetlar cancels the event.
2012-07-24 00:20:27 Chuck Ward: Great Idea
2012-07-24 00:33:59 crust: Yes, that would be great. I met up with two friends just back from holiday in Shetland and they got the impression there will be a championship this year, but if so, it's odd that the date hasn't been announced.
2012-07-25 19:54:42 crust: just heard from Peter Kelly that the Fetlar hnefatafl championship is definitely cancelled, again owing to poor health.
2012-07-25 21:02:15 Hagbard: Sorry to hear that. Surely a real world championship is better than a virtual one, but we will go ahead then.
2012-07-25 22:44:24 Hagbard: Button for tournament is on. Who will be the Unofficial Hnefatafl Grand Master over the internet 2012? Good luck!!
2012-07-27 12:53:06 Adam: Sorry to hear fetlar was cancelled. A speedy recovery to Mr Kelly. Glad to hear the tournament will be honoured with a fetlar rules tournament here. How are we scoring draws in the tournament? .5/.5 or 0/0...?
2012-07-27 17:07:18 Hagbard: What about 0.5/0.5 as is probably used on Fetlar. But the monstrous fort is a no-go.
2012-07-29 08:22:27 Adam: I think fetlar is fetlar as far as the game is concerned, and we ought not to alter teh rules, without calling it something else. Better to alter the scoring to discourage it rather than forbid it. Just a thought.
2012-07-29 10:38:27 Hagbard: To the Fetlar players: what do you think - should we use the 0. / 0. points for the draw?
2012-07-29 11:07:02 crust: I think we should! I am in a fetlar game over on DHL against matematician, and he's doing a double monstrosity fort ... again! People who play like that should not be rewarded with half a point
2012-07-29 11:11:25 Hagbard: If no objections, we'll go for the 0. / 0. draw points then.
2012-07-29 16:24:50 Chuck Ward: Sounds good
2012-07-29 17:07:35 Harbard: By the way, the "offer draw" button is a flip flop button: If you clicked it by mistake, just click again to erase the draw offer.
2012-07-30 22:02:16 Hagbard: At last year's tournament I mailed to reenactment groups in USA, UK, Germany, Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Poland, Ukraine, Russia, you name it, and website owners and forums etc. But seemingly nobody showed up, so the potential participants are already here, I suppose?
2012-08-01 00:33:07 crust: If we made it into a cult religion, we would have thousands of fanatical devotees. It could be called the "Church of Hnefatology"
2012-08-01 03:43:05 Chuck Ward: I will follow your teachings oh mighty messiah
2012-08-02 00:20:30 crust: that would be "Crustianity"...
2012-08-02 10:42:19 Hagbard: Fetlar has, probably today, added a note to their Hnefatafl World Championship page about their cancelling this year, and are so kind to forward the readers to the present page, thank you!
2012-08-02 22:18:20 Adam: He's not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy.
2012-08-03 00:21:21 crust: there's no messiah in here. There's a mess all right, but no messiah.
2012-08-04 10:29:40 crust: to Hagbard: do you keep a record of how many games are going on in the website at any time? There seem to be a lot right now, thanks to the tournament...Is this a record?
2012-08-04 10:40:33 Hagbard: I don't keep a record of it, but I've never seen this many before. At this moment 74 games are on the active list, of which 14 were completed less than 24 hours ago and 60 are ongoing. It is no doubt a record.
2012-08-04 12:07:13 crust: There are some very interesting games going on, and the "current board positions" button makes it wonderfully easy to watch their progress. Some great new players!
2012-08-07 20:41:17 crust: Great tournament Aage.
2012-08-08 08:59:57 Aage: 46 fights settled, 64 remain.
2012-08-09 13:41:42 crust: the table showing all the players in the tournament is now 11 by 11 squares. That reminds me of something, but I can't think what...
2012-08-09 21:07:39 Adam: Excellent tournament, loving all my games. Not finding time to chat 'in game' so much, so I thought I'd post here to all my opponents at once - excellent games, loads of challenging strategies to attempt to confound, so nice to see the game generating so much good play. Good luck to all!
2012-08-10 00:21:40 barba: Just posting here to let you all know I love the alternative tournament. Enjoying losing as much as the occasional win. ;-)
2012-08-10 16:38:33 Hagbard: New record August 7th: 89 games were on the active list, of which 5 were completed less than 24 hours earlier and 84 were ongoing.
2012-08-14 09:48:24 barba: @Crust: Luck has nothing to do with it.... except for bad luck when loosing offcourse. ;-)
2012-08-15 01:36:29 Chuck Ward: Very fun...win or lose.....just very happy we have so many players in this community
2012-08-16 22:48:26 crust: That is really true! And such a friendly site :)
2012-08-18 10:58:00 crust: To all players: Please come and join the World Tafl Forum, or International Hnefatafl Society, look in the "large" forum under the heading "Announcements"... Thanks!
2012-08-22 20:35:37 Adam: just scrolling through the tournament game list. That's a lot of hnefatafl!
2012-09-02 23:38:11 crust: Huge thanks to Aage Nielsen for his work setting up and moderating the tournament, not to mention his bug-fixing and data-entry duties. Thank you!
2012-09-04 09:28:12 Adam: Congratulations to Crust for such a convincing win in the Fetlar tournament. The battle continues for silver and bronze! Thanks to Aage for continuing to be our generous host and webmaster. Your hard work is much appreciated!
2012-09-04 17:37:31 Hagbard: Congratulations to crust for the victory in the Fetlar tournament! NB The throne & edge rules of Copenhagen and Berserk Hnefatafl are the same as in Fetlar from today.
2012-09-04 21:35:40 crust: ;)
2012-09-04 23:22:18 Adam: Awesome. is it worth considering implementing the forbidding of board repetition on those, if not all variants, to prevent perpetual situations?
2012-09-04 23:38:23 Hagbard: The repetition check should already be implemented on those plus several other variants.
2012-09-05 20:11:05 Adam: Brilliant.
2012-09-09 11:08:26 crust: I am trying to learn how to play Berserk by watching games between Adam and Hagbard. A bit like watching a duel between Gandalf and Saruman, all sorts of wizardly things going on
2012-09-12 10:06:42 Hagbard: Crust has suggested for the Berserk board a dark red color to signal the berserk bloody violence of the game. Now a lighter tone color called "Flame" is tried, still to signal hectic war activity, but I don't know if the color is easy enough for the eyes. Any suggestions for alternatives?
2012-09-12 12:23:24 Hagbard: I found a "blood red", maybe it can be used.
2012-09-12 20:02:37 Adam: I quite enjoyed the red board, its gone pale green now on my computer. I think it works well having striking differences between the board colours for different variants. helps to put ones brain in the correct gear.
2012-09-12 20:04:52 Adam: @crust - lol
2012-09-13 11:01:06 Adam: @ Hagbard: if a rule is altered (as in the recent shield wall amendment) is it also altered for games already in progress at the time of change? Just so we know : )
2012-09-13 11:24:57 Hagbard: Yes, a rule change is also in effect for running games.
2012-09-14 00:28:19 barba: Berserk colors are just fine right now. Make me feel just going in 'veldig kjempe berserk modus'. ;-)
2012-09-14 10:59:29 crust: I agree! But pieces would look better black and white (rather than brown and yellow) IMHO
2012-09-14 10:59:29 Hagbard: Venetian Red on now; an earth color with rust, iron-oxide, also a somewhat bloody color -
2012-09-16 11:35:44 crust: Venetian red is awesome. I really like having different board colours for the different rule sets. Please continue! e.g. a different green for the non-fetlar "hnefatafl 11x11" or blue for scandinavian museums rules or edge rules
2012-09-18 11:41:52 Hagbard: Berserk color changed again into Cinnabar red, which is a Vikings' color. The added blue and yellow are also Vikings' colors.
2012-09-18 19:37:34 crust: great colours. What's the blue called?
2012-09-18 19:37:39 crust: great colours. What's the blue called?
2012-09-18 19:53:39 crust: I think there's an echo in here
2012-09-18 20:41:28 Hagbard: The blue Viking color is Lapis lazuli. A very expensive color used on kings' ships to show they could afford it. The color is used on the Sea Stallion reconstruction in Roskilde.
2012-09-18 20:46:57 Hagbard: The yellow color is Ochre.
2012-09-18 22:09:37 crust: I was going to guess "ultramarine", which I think is more or less the same blue as Lapis Lazuli. Excellent. The "current board positions" page is now much more colourful
2012-09-19 00:13:51 Hagbard: Should be very close to ultramarine, and also related to the ancient Egyptian Blue.
2012-09-19 19:12:27 crust: The Sea Stallion is beautiful! Thanks for the link.
2012-09-25 17:25:02 barba: Nice new colours Aage!
2012-09-27 09:04:45 Hagbard: ;)
2012-10-02 00:15:40 barba: Indeed ;)
2012-10-08 09:53:56 Hagbard: New in the photos gallery: arne64's hnefatafl set.
2012-10-08 11:26:04 crust: That's just beautiful...
2012-10-08 21:10:54 Adam: Wow! A berserk hnefatafl set! Beautiful design, Very elegant.
2012-10-12 20:47:18 barba: Nice set indeed!
2012-10-13 22:31:40 crust: to Aage: I resigned accidentally again, in a game against arne64. I think it's when I try to cancel a move, and accidentally double click on "cancel" - the first click cancels, then the second one resigns the game. Is there any way there can be a confirmation message ("Resign game? Are you sure?") as this has happened to me before, and possibly is happening to others. Or maybe I'm just a cabbage
2012-10-14 11:47:28 crust: yes I see what's happening. When you cancel a move by pressing "cancel", the screen goes back to what it was before you made the move, but now the button "resign" is EXACTLY under the cursor. I'm using a laptop with the finger pad rather than a mouse, and sometimes when you just touch it, it interprets that as a left-click. So I inadvertently press "resign" when i'm trying to move the cursor off the resign button. Maybe just putting the resign button elsewhere would stop this from happening. Or maybe if I used a mouse...
2012-10-14 12:36:24 Adam: If its not too difficult Aage, could we have the 'resign' button, and also the 'send move' button, far away from the other buttons? Its also nerve wracking pressing those buttons on the iphone, for fear of hitting the wrong one!
2012-10-15 00:31:08 Hagbard: @crust: thanks for the explanation of the resign-effect, sounds plausible. Put on top of the todo list. @Adam: good idea.
2012-10-15 15:56:50 crust: to Hagbard: severe case of PEBKAC at my end
2012-10-15 19:49:00 Hagbard: I wouldn't say that; I'd call it a grave design imperfection.
2012-10-16 00:26:41 crust: thanks for resurrecting the affected game in any case. The king still has his "dead" facial expression, but is moving normally, a bit like Frankenstein's monster
2012-10-16 00:45:04 Hagbard: :-D
2012-10-22 17:45:29 Hagbard: A Berserk tournament is started.
2012-10-24 15:41:54 crust: To Hagbard: Thanks for setting up the tournament! To all players, good luck! And watch out for those berserk moves...
2012-11-12 15:12:10 Hagbard: The Scand. museums Hnefatafl edge 11x11 tournament has started after request from conanlib. Please remember that the king is captured from 2 sides! And wins on the edge. The variant is still under suspicion of not being proper balanced, therefore the games are not rated and you may participate without risking your place on the rating list. It's however the hope that the tournament can show that the variant is balanced after all. It might be a good idea if the players still involved in the Berserk tournament settle the Berserk games before starting here, as the rules are so different. This tournament will be open for new players for 20 days.
2012-11-13 19:15:26 arne64: skallatorc and I are having a bug in a tournament game: it often just takes several moves back. Then we decided to start an other game but it has the same bug too. Thanks for help!
2012-11-13 19:19:01 crust: I get that bug too, only in games with Skallatorc - it must be his computer
2012-11-14 18:09:31 Hagbard: This phenomenon is only seen in games against Skallatorc's computer. Some time ago more checks were added to prevent it, but somehow the computer is still able to do this; kind of a mystery.
2012-11-24 14:11:52 crust: Skallatorc's computer has a time-warp function
2012-11-27 22:04:18 conanlib: Has the issue with Skallatorc's computer been resolved? I am really not sure if my tournament game against him is correct. Probably not. The replay is bogus at least. I did notice the problem once, but thought I was imagining things...
2012-11-28 20:50:36 Hagbard: Sorry, the Skallatorc computer is still a mystery.
2012-11-28 23:11:57 crust: to Conanlibrarian - when I was having the same problem with Skallatorc games, I found that the replays were nonsensical, but the actual games were o.k. So maybe just ignore the replays (and move lists), and hope for the best ;)
2012-12-01 18:52:15 Hagbard: The small change in Berserk is implemented: a commander cannot capture the king against the throne.
2012-12-02 22:35:02 crust: I like the re-design, it makes the games page much clearer and easier to use
2012-12-04 00:58:04 crust: Congrats to Adam for winning the Berserk tournament with 17 wins out of a possible 18. Awesome!
2012-12-05 23:51:23 crust: I find that the replay function doesn't work with internet explorer, but seems to be o.k. with google chrome
2012-12-06 03:01:23 altti: ia there a program for fitchneal
2012-12-06 09:01:24 Hagbard: Couple of questions: Where is the fitchneal game played? (re-enactment clubs, societies). Is the king armed? Is it decided whether the game is a tafl game (forces 2:1) or a lantrunculi game (forces 1:1)? Are there sites with the rules? Is the game balanced?
2012-12-06 11:20:15 Hagbard: Много русских гостей в эти дни, добро пожаловать! Можно здесь играть в тавлеи и против компъютер и против человеков.
2012-12-06 19:10:09 altti: it is an irish variant played on a 7X7 board. 8 defenders plus king in a cross. 16 attackers three centered along each side one in each corner.
2012-12-06 20:03:22 crust: You can play Fitchneal at: alumnus.caltech.edu/~leif/games/Hnefetafl/fitchnealCA.html Fitchneal is an Irish game of the Middle Ages. It is descended from the Norse game Hnefetafl, differing in a few minor details and perhaps in board size. The object of the game is to capture the defender's king, or to get the king to escape by reaching a board edge. The defender has six men and a king; the attacker has twelve men. All pieces move in a straight line along a row or column (no diagonals, much as a rook moves in chess). The light square in the center is called the "king's square", and only the king may land on it or move over it. Pieces may not be jumped. Ordinary pieces (but not the king) are captured by being bracketed (called custodial capture) by two enemy pieces across from each other. The king's square can also be used (in place of a piece) to capture an attacker or the king, although the king may not be used to capture. A piece may safely move between two enemy pieces, tho
2012-12-06 20:04:48 crust: ...though; only the moving player may capture. The king may be captured by being surrounded on all four sides by enemy pieces or the king's square. The attacker moves first. (that's the rules as stated on that website) :)
2012-12-06 20:05:32 crust: I hope this means Fitchneal might make an appearance here!
2012-12-06 20:30:04 altti: then there is Alea Evangeli an Anglo-Saxon variant on a 19X19 board. too complex to describe the layout. defenders move first
2012-12-06 20:32:28 altti: the 11X11 variant is welsh called Tawlbrydd, as described in the publication I have.
2012-12-06 23:43:36 crust: you can keep Alea Evangelii... >>yawn<<
2012-12-07 00:10:12 Hagbard: Skallatorc, which computer type do you use? Stationary, desktop, iPad, iPhone?
2012-12-08 00:25:00 Hagbard: Skallatorc and I had a talk about the problem and a test game. I have an idea for a solution, but maybe not this side of New Year.
2012-12-08 19:10:23 Adam: I have a suspicion that the Alea manuscript will turn out to be something of a missing link in taflology when properly deciphered. I agree that the game as it stands is pretty unplayable in correspondence format. But the version being played online doesnt even agree with the manuscript image. So I'm not giving up on it just yet. And as a live game it might prove to be good fun.
2012-12-14 16:25:42 crust: it's hard to see how white could ever win in Skalk 9x9 corner tafl... So maybe it shouldn't be rated?
2012-12-14 17:53:49 Hagbard: Skalk 9x9 corner tafl not rated, until we know more about this variant.
2012-12-15 08:26:30 Hagbard: The Skallatorc-error should be solved now.
2012-12-15 18:33:21 Hagbard: Before another Skalk edge tournament, it could be interesting to test the Foteviken Lapp Tablut, which is in use at the Fotevikens Museum?
2012-12-15 19:08:50 crust: yes - good idea.
2012-12-15 19:10:44 crust: Congratulations arne64 for winning the Skalk edge tournament!
2012-12-17 16:44:16 altti: the bottom of stalk, fetlar and copenhagen game boards are blacked out on my screen. sometimes a portion of the bottom row sometimes as much as half the board. I have no way of knowing just how much until I open the game. this is the reason I have not made moves on many of my games.
2012-12-18 15:10:02 Hagbard: New in the photos gallery: altti's multi board game set.
2012-12-19 16:02:54 altti: does a 9x9 variant exist which has a formal name and includes in its rules the king armed, throne hostile to all, and king escapes any edge?
2012-12-19 17:53:30 Hagbard: That would be "Skalk Hnefatafl 9x9 edge".
2012-12-19 19:09:46 altti: am I correct in reading that the king may be captured against a corner square in skalk? if he moves between the corner and an opponent then an opponent moves to encircle.
2012-12-19 19:14:42 Hagbard: yes
2012-12-19 19:36:58 Hagbard: correction: no! If the king moves between the corner and an opponent, he's safe.
2012-12-19 20:26:57 altti: he then wins in the subsequent move. black may not capture.
2012-12-19 20:50:53 Hagbard: yes, wins in next move. Black may capture with one against the corner, but not with two (in Skalk).
2012-12-19 20:52:38 Hagbard: Sea Battle tournament concluded - 7 players didn't time out, 23 white wins and 19 black wins.
2012-12-20 10:52:14 crust: The Seas are ruled by Captain Crust and Admiral Arne. Haharrr!
2012-12-23 11:23:11 Hagbard: arne64 made it to the top!
2012-12-24 17:41:54 altti: I'm down from luck 13!
2012-12-24 23:56:35 crust: Happy Christmas everybody!
2012-12-25 07:38:07 Hagbard: Merry Yule and a Happy New Year to all Hnefatafl players!
2012-12-29 04:33:14 altti: joyous lunar new year.(last full moon of the year)
2013-01-01 14:21:10 fairland: Happy New Year to all my new friends at aagenielsen.
2013-01-01 22:46:59 crust: :) good hnefatafling in 2013!
2013-01-02 09:53:55 Hagbard: New in the photos gallery: Fairland's Hnefatafl game set.
2013-01-02 10:56:47 Hagbard: Do some of our North American fellow Hnefatafl players have access to the details of the Norse America rules?
2013-01-02 16:21:43 Hagbard: In the Foteviken Lapp Tablut tournament 7 players did 42 games: 25 white wins and 17 black wins. The 4 highest rated players alone did 12 games: 6 white wins and 6 black wins. With Fetlar we saw that the black side was very difficult for beginners, maybe it's similar here. Could be that the Lapp Tablut can be rated for future games?
2013-01-02 19:23:59 fairland: I have seen Norse America rules online I think.
2013-01-02 23:49:27 crust: very nice game set fairland
2013-01-03 00:54:50 crust: to Hagbard, Foteviken Tablut is in accord with our experience of other tafl forms - beginners find the game unbalanced in favour of white (defenders), but experienced players find the game much better balanced
2013-01-03 09:54:29 Hagbard: Foteviken is rated.
2013-01-03 11:37:46 Hagbard: I haven't yet found a crystal clear rules set from searching for "Norse America" && hnefatafl && rules; as opposed to Skalk 11x11 and memory.no (= History Craft) where I have the printed, original rules from the game boxes in hand.
2013-01-03 13:30:05 fairland: Then I don't at least. But I can't speak for all of the American players.
2013-01-05 10:58:40 fairland: I have a question for anyone to answer. As an isolated hnefatafl player, I have never actually heard hnefatafl pronounced. Using my immensly limited knowledge of Old Morsel I came up with Nevataf. Any corrections or comments?
2013-01-05 12:55:37 Hagbard: Being a Dane, I say "Nefatafl", first e like French é (long e), first a like in addictive, and second a like in arcane (short a). Stress on first syllable.
2013-01-05 14:18:11 Hagbard: This site: w w w.vikingwoodcarving.com/vikingceltic.htm says it's based on the Norse America game, and then refers to w w w.gamecabinet.com/history/Hnef.html for the rules. If that's so, then Norse America has a friendly throne (only hostile to the king), corners hostile to everybody, and the king can be captured on the edge by three or two men.
2013-01-06 05:23:58 altti: looking forward to seeing the completed board and set Fairland. is anyone here a SCAdian?
2013-01-06 11:02:35 Hagbard: New in photo gallery: Altti sent two photos of a new general Hnefatafl & chess board.
2013-01-06 15:48:43 crust: Wow Altti beautiful board!
2013-01-06 16:59:04 Hagbard: National Museums Scotland sells a Hnefatafl game box and writes "Attackers (brown pieces) must kill the king for victory by surrounding him on four sides, either with attackers or a combination of boundaries and attackers." But this is a History Craft set? nms home page: shop.nms.ac.uk/products/The-Viking-Game-(Hnefatafl).html
2013-01-07 03:49:15 altti: thank you. I'll be making more with different exotic woods. I'm a better craftsman than competitor.
2013-01-07 04:42:28 altti: yeah back up to lucky 13 in the rankings
2013-01-07 04:53:44 fairland: Better craftsman than player may be so, I believe you have beaten me as both. Beautiful set.
2013-01-07 13:10:10 altti: the craft is not in the comparing but in the experience of the doing and your doing intricate art work. Cheers!
2013-01-07 23:57:06 crust: The amazing photos of hand-made hnefatafl sets in the picture gallery are powerful evidence of the "hnefatafl renaissance".
2013-01-08 11:13:28 Hagbard: w w w.empowernetwork.com/lee33/blog/kings-table-one-of-those-board-games-for-adults/ This is an American advocating for History Craft rules plus this one: "If an attacker is beside a corner square it can be captured - think of the corner as if it has a defender's piece on it at all times." So, corners are only hostile to attackers. Are these rules his invention or are they Norse America rules?
2013-01-08 14:09:22 crust: he seems to have a History Craft set in the photograph, presumably containing Norse America rules
2013-01-09 20:14:30 crust: well done Arne64, for winning the Foteviken tournament!
2013-01-10 18:35:29 Fairland: I can never seem to be able to watch the replays in the games archive. Is this because I am playing on an iPad or because it is a formatting issue.
2013-01-10 20:44:39 Hagbard: The technique used in the replay, and also in games against the computer, is Java, and unfortunately iPad and iPhones don't run Java. Also some Mac's have a problem, but beside that, the replay can be watched in all desktops and stationary PC's. The games against human opponents use a different technique and can be run from any device connected to the internet.
2013-01-11 00:47:37 crust: I find I can watch replays with google chrome, but not with internet explorer
2013-01-11 10:02:37 Hagbard: Yeah, thank heaven that there's not only one browser.
2013-01-11 10:04:04 Hagbard: About the skalk 9x9 edge test tournament: seven players of nine have completed all their 42 games against each other; result 23 white wins, 19 black wins, 0 draws. The four strongest players had against each other 6 white wins and 6 black wins. So, future games of the skalk 9x9 edge variant can be rated? (when the 22 remaining games are completed, a new counting is done)
2013-01-11 18:04:29 crust: I have the subjective impression that skalk 9x9 edge is balanced, so I would support the idea of having this variant rated :)
2013-01-12 08:02:52 fairland: Despite doing quite horribly myself, I see gameplay as balanced and would say. Rank away.
2013-01-12 20:45:31 conanlib: Yes, seems to be at least as balanced as sea battle tafl. I guess I'll have to work on my attacker game, regardless of sea-battle or skalk edge 9x9 I do much better as defender. Sorry about the time out game btw.
2013-01-13 17:23:38 crust: is it just me, or is there a HUGE improvement in the replay function? It looks much better, with the correct board colours and everything. Well done Hagbard
2013-01-13 17:26:06 Hagbard: Shift of technology - runnable on iPads etc.
2013-01-13 18:44:13 crust: Oh brave new world...
2013-01-13 23:37:55 fairland: Yes! And it works swimmingly. Thanks for the improvement.
2013-01-16 06:30:26 altti: wow nine points in the tournament!
2013-01-17 22:09:29 conanlib: so, what's the next tournament going to be? :)
2013-01-17 23:11:09 Hagbard: Skalk 9x9 very soon. Skalk 9x9 has a special history: In the 1990'ies there was in Sweden a firm called ExpoMedia, which created software for history exhibitions. One of its products was a computer program playing Hnefatafl. The program was also given free on the internet for many years in the form of a web page with a Hnefatafl applet. The page was so popular on the net that it to this day is still referenced from 184 other sites, even though it ceased to exist twelve years ago. The ExpoMedia Hnefatafl was Skalk 9x9.
2013-01-19 05:27:13 altti: I, for one, am truly grateful that you have continued to keep the faith after ExpoMedia discontinued!
2013-01-19 19:31:53 Hagbard: The computer crossed the line of 100000 games!
2013-01-23 21:32:24 crust: that's quite a lot of hnefatafl
2013-01-25 22:27:21 Hagbard: New in photo gallery: Altti made a new hnefatafl/tablut board and a new chess board.
2013-01-25 23:43:18 altti: looks like skalk 9x9 is favorable to attacker
2013-01-30 18:06:40 : Ja... ugh.
2013-02-02 19:55:22 Hagbard: The Skalk 9x9 test tournament until now: 12 white wins and 33 black wins. Looks like a variant which should not be rated?
2013-02-02 20:00:13 crust: if you mean skalk corner tafl, then I say NO, keep it unrated! The proof is here, that it is not a balanced game.
2013-02-02 20:02:27 crust: I mean "yes, don't rate it", not "no, don't not rate it"
2013-02-03 07:52:09 Hagbard: Skalk Hnefatafl edge 9x9 is rated. Also, some games which were started after January 12th (when it was agreed to rate future games of this variant) were rated manually.
2013-02-03 17:07:05 crust: Congratulations Hagbard on winning the Skalk 9x9 Edge Tafl tournament!
2013-02-03 18:33:23 Hagbard: It was a lucky day!
2013-02-04 21:55:11 Hagbard: A next test tournament is planned to be the Ashton Tablut. The variant can be played against the computer from the "Tablut online" page.
2013-02-05 15:20:03 Hagbard: No, perhaps some would want a break from those very special variants. History Craft needs a test run. It is simply identical to Fetlar except for one difference: the throne (the center square) is always friendly, that is, it does not take part in captures. (But the king is surrounded as usual by three blacks plus throne). History Craft Hnefatafl is manufactured in UK and sold from museum shops in several European countries.
2013-02-05 19:47:46 crust: we tafl feinschmeckers don't mind...
2013-02-05 19:51:20 Hagbard: ;)
2013-02-12 05:01:46 HEART: It seems that I have bumped into several human vs. human games at times lol sorry about that
2013-02-12 12:34:56 crust: To Heart: That's okay, come and play the rest of us when you're ready.
2013-02-12 15:25:13 HEART: The next time I click on your game, it should be real.
2013-02-13 10:57:04 test: test
2013-02-13 20:35:48 Adam: Just been catching up on forum reading. Well done everyone with the latest games testing. Sorry I've not been involved, I have been renovating and moving house. But I am back now and enjoying the latest tournament. Good luck to all!
2013-02-20 20:00:07 Hagbard: The Danish quality newspaper Weekendavisen had an article about Hnefatafl last Friday, and they use a fine quotation from Millar. You can see the article here: w w w.weekendavisen.dk/smarticle/view/3
2013-02-21 01:11:11 crust: apparently I can speak danish! I didn't know that
2013-02-21 05:23:23 Hagbard: It's something you say about Hnefatafl on your home page, perfectly translated.
2013-02-22 00:00:09 crust: Det er et af de spil, som er nemt at lære, men svært at mestre
2013-02-22 00:42:34 Hagbard: Netop, og godt sagt ;)
2013-02-22 02:30:51 crust: English Hnefatafl Championship tournament Sunday 18th August 2013 to be held at Sutton Hoo Anglo-Saxon burial site near Woodbridge, Suffolk, UK. Please see "announcements" section of large forum for more details.
2013-03-07 04:24:21 Chuck Ward: IN a game with Jurgenson.We want to draw but there is no button for it.
2013-03-07 07:18:09 Hagbard: That's because only one black piece was killed. In a discussion some time ago on the large forum it was decided that white is allowed to obtain a draw only when at least two black pieces are killed; generally for all variants.
2013-03-07 09:49:49 Hagbard: Crust a full 1000 online games!
2013-03-07 13:11:29 Watson: a striking array of invitations!
2013-03-07 14:20:13 Adam: Congratulations crust. Makes me look like a beginner with my paultry 285 games.
2013-03-07 14:22:06 Adam: Aage, have you considered making it easier to create batches of invites? The process is very laborious if one wants to invite say ten people to a black and a white game of hnefatafl.
2013-03-07 17:57:40 Aage: I didn't think of it, but it looks like a good idea. I'll take it up in some software update.
2013-03-07 22:06:17 crust: It would be nice to be able to invite for a pair of games (one black, one white)
2013-03-07 22:09:32 crust1000: all your base are belong to us
2013-03-08 20:40:42 Adam: If it was possible to make the buttons where you select player name, game type and colour into flip flop buttons, then one could invite for multiple games with different players without any visual changes at least. Though no doubt it would create considerable behind the scenes complications!
2013-03-09 06:46:41 Aage: That's how the layout should be.
2013-03-10 21:28:29 Chuck Ward: Jurgenson and I have a draw game and would like it to be a draw....can this be made so please?
2013-03-10 22:49:21 Hagbard: Actually black won, as only one black piece was killed.
2013-03-10 23:11:12 chuck ward: ok then maybe this should be fixed so it ends the game.
2013-03-11 07:44:46 Hagbard: Since the Skalk rules have an important position in Scandinavia, and especially the Skalk 11x11 variant, it'd be wise to test Skalk 11x11 properly in a test tournament before summing up on the Skalk variants. Remember: king is captured from 2 sides! and wins in corner.
2013-03-14 12:07:38 Jurgenson: How much kill is determined by a draw or a victory? When appears a button "Offer Draw"?
2013-03-14 16:15:44 Hagbard: The "Offer draw" button appears after two black pieces are killed.
2013-03-16 06:23:39 Hagbard: In the chat of a Skalk 11x11 game against me, Jurgenson commented on the kill-two-black-pieces rule and the general concept of draw. I think this is of general interest as a qualified Russian point of view - Jurgenson: This paragraph stimulates white side to activity. The rules I have not seen this. May initially draw was not. A victory was considered on the basis of the two parties and the number of dead chips. That is, the kill-two-black-pieces rule stimulates white side to activity. In Russia there's no mention of a draw concept in the rules (nor of a kill-two-black-pieces rule). Maybe initially there was no draw option in Hnefatafl. A victory was determined on the basis of two games (reverse colors) and the number of killed pieces.
2013-03-16 10:26:08 crust: so you have two drawn games, and then you add up the killed warriors to determine the winner? I don't like that idea; in a strategic board game, victory should be decided by position, not numbers. You should sacrifice pieces for a good position, not sacrifice position to protect pieces. Otherwise it could be a dull game. It would be like inviting accountants and surveyors on to the battlefield to determine who won. (No offence to them btw)
2013-03-16 10:27:19 crust: At my signal, release the accountants!
2013-03-16 10:35:44 crust: to Adam, Welcome to the 1900 club!
2013-03-16 13:57:14 crust: Hagbard, there seems to be a glitch, both Adam and Skallatorc report that when they accepted games with me, the games were already started with two or three moves already made (presumably by somebody else)... any idea what this problem could be?
2013-03-16 15:30:53 altti: I've had the same situation but it was not limited to just one opponent
2013-03-16 17:30:59 Hagbard: Strange; I don't immediately know what could be happening there, but must look into it.
2013-03-16 18:14:05 altti: HAL is not getting enough Stimulation from just Simulations
2013-03-17 08:04:54 Adam: Totally agree with crust about position vs protecting pieces. We've been through this on the forum a lot, and an obviously unbalanced rule set has some value as a handicap system, but if one is not aware of this, playing an unbalanced rule set can lead to bad habits if you play the stronger side. One should always play a black and white game against an opponent as the game is asymmetrical and requires different strategies. Playing two games in order to achieve balance leads to an absurdity: Why not play with 24 black verses 1 white weaponless king with corner escape and two sided capture?
2013-03-17 20:01:57 Jurgenson: Many variants of the rules is a consequence of the fact that different researchers have tried to recreate the original. Asymmetric game so to determine the winner playing two games. If one player wins both sides of the issues there. And if such a black won both, the winner the one who has less loss. Perhaps it is difficult to implement technically. And not everyone wants to play a couple of games at once. I am reenactor, and just a little bit interested in the historical aspect of the game. PS Cases when the initial position moves have already been made I also had. PS2 Sorry for my english, google translate help me.
2013-03-17 23:07:07 Adam: I think I see the point. I suppose if a variant was absurdly out balanced one could play two games and decide who wins on points. But then the goal of the game has shifted, the goal is now to slaughter pieces, not to capture or free the king. Which is fine, but it is a different game.
2013-03-24 08:47:25 Hagbard: New in the photos gallery: crust's new Sea Battle Tafl set.
2013-03-24 14:00:06 altti: those are an impressive set of peices and the rules are an important addition. I like the peg board idea.
2013-03-25 00:42:02 crust: to altti: thanks! Would be a terrible shame to drill into one of your boards though!
2013-03-25 17:00:45 Adam: Lovely Sea tafl set!
2013-03-28 11:53:14 crust: to Adam: see what you've got me into
2013-03-29 13:40:06 altti: Im in the top ten for the first time! (we'll see how long that lasts) I've been hovering from 13 to 11 for the longest time. YEAH!
2013-03-29 15:34:17 Jurgenson: Are there any plans add Roman game Latrunculi? Would be interesting to test the human vs human.
2013-03-30 09:22:46 crust: suddenly this website doesn't work with internet explorer, but o.k. with google chrome
2013-03-30 09:59:51 Hagbard: Works with Windows 7, Explorer 9. No changes for a long time which should affect Explorer.
2013-03-30 10:05:02 Hagbard: About Latrunculi, sorry, no plans for adding in any near future. Maybe Latrunculi could be an interesting project for Italian board gamers to put online on the internet?
2013-03-30 11:33:44 crust: ROMANES EUNT DOMUS
2013-03-30 12:37:14 Jurgenson: Maybe. It is interesting as a forerunner Tafl. And as an version, with equal force. Simply because to do on the basis ready, than nothing.
2013-04-01 11:38:11 Don: Romanii ite domum surely
2013-04-01 13:15:26 Predo: Can't wait for the UK championship this year
2013-04-01 21:39:00 Adam: 'people call the romans they go the house?'
2013-04-02 20:58:49 Adam: @hagbard: could a column or two be added in the 'quick overview of variants' that clarifies board repetition, draw forts, shield wall rule and encirclement ? I for one have lost track and find the quick overview table a great help when one has several game variants on the go.
2013-04-03 18:15:03 Hagbard: Good idea! Will be added soon.
2013-04-04 15:48:19 Hagbard: Tournament 12: Sea Battle Tafl has many fans; king unarmed, captured from 4 sides, wins on edge. Here the 11x11 board is tested.
2013-04-07 04:40:00 Serena: if anyone wants to play hneftafl with me,go straight ahead,'cause whose stopping you
2013-04-10 09:18:03 crust: to Hagbard: In my Sea Battle 11x11 game against Duhawk93 (where I'm playing white), it seems I can't move f7-f6 (on to the centre square) even though the square is unoccupied. is this a glitch? Can anything be done?
2013-04-10 11:00:01 Hagbard: Will be corrected later today.
2013-04-10 20:44:52 Hagbard: The error is corrected.
2013-04-10 21:25:18 crust: that's great!
2013-04-11 06:10:36 Federico: I have developed an (downloadable) Online Hnefatafl game. If you'd like to try it, send me an email to email@example.com. I'd like to have it hosted in this website. If the owner of the website reads this, please send me an e-mail if youre interested.
2013-04-13 00:31:18 altti: my sea tourney with conalib says i have taken 9 days for 10 moves but im white and black has not yet made the first move
2013-04-13 08:24:33 Hagbard: Bad error, to be corrected later today.
2013-04-18 01:51:33 crust: To Hagbard: Any chance you could rescue my copenhagen game against Adam - he resigned accidentally. That would be great!
2013-04-18 07:54:08 Hagbard: Sure; and perhaps it's time for this "Do you really wanna resign" function.
2013-04-18 12:22:36 crust: yes, that would be a good idea. Thank you!
2013-04-18 12:46:31 crust: to Arne64 and Duhawk93: your history craft tournament game is officially EPIC at over 100 moves
2013-04-19 12:30:08 altti: my tourney with everhard says i have used 7 days for 10 moves but i'm white and waiting for black to make the first move.
2013-04-21 08:19:10 Hagbard: Fixed.
2013-04-24 23:53:52 crust: Congratulations Adam for winning the History Craft tournament, and Jurgenson for winning the Skalk 11x11 tournament!
2013-04-25 02:15:35 altti: congrats to all those who played the tourneys. there are a lot of high scores.
2013-04-25 14:30:22 crust: to Hagbard: bug alert! I just started a game with Watson, but two moves have already been made by somebody else. Any idea what this could be? I mean, apart from evil spirits, obviously.
2013-04-25 16:33:20 Jurgenson: Thanks. My victory in the tournament, mainly because that in a game with Duhawk93 time is up.
2013-04-25 16:37:30 Jurgenson: Also started the game with Watson has already made one move!
2013-04-26 12:17:44 Watson: that should not be evil spirits because the moves were doned by someone who had left messages in the chat corner. Despite the moves, the name of the player didn't exist and the invitations were still valid.
2013-04-27 08:04:30 Hagbard: Code modified, no more ghost moves expected.
2013-04-27 09:31:03 crust: Who you gonna call? Hagbusters!
2013-04-27 21:31:23 Hagbard: ;)
2013-04-28 11:19:47 crust: I just resigned and had the pleasure of admiring the new resign confirmation feature.... nice work Aage
2013-04-28 14:46:55 Hagbard: Too many involuntary resigns without it
2013-04-28 14:51:19 Hagbard: New test tournament: the Ashton rules. King captured from 2 sides (!), wins on edge, all forbidden squares hostile (!). Rules explained here: aagenielsen.dk/ashton_rules.html , can be practised against the computer here: aagenielsen.dk/tablut_online.html
2013-04-29 16:35:01 Adam: Good luck to all in tournament. Should be informative. Am I right in thinking this is the most historically reliable tafl rule set, based as it is on a new translation?
2013-05-01 13:50:32 Jurgenson: I accidentally clicked to participate in the tournament. Can be disable this? There is no time for it.
2013-05-01 22:39:34 Jurgenson: Thanks!
2013-05-02 10:13:15 Hagbard: New in the photos gallery: Rynoknight's Hnefatafl set.
2013-05-02 19:00:13 barba: Saw a television program on history channel at a friend's. It was episode 8 of season 1. Ragnar is playing Hnefatafl in it. In another episode, I spotted a board game, but it turned out to be a different game. I guess a Dablot-like game. But in episode 8 our favorite game actually is being displayed. Just so you know.
2013-05-05 19:43:46 Hagbard: New in the photos gallery: Olga Mudrichenko visited the site of the ancient Viking settlement Staraya Ladoga near St. Petersburg and caught this spring atmosphere May 2nd.
2013-05-06 23:00:19 crust: they often have viking festivals there I believe
2013-05-07 11:06:19 Watson: hi, the problem is that I invite others to play white in Hnefatafl 11x11, and it turns out to be an invitation to play black.
2013-05-07 13:20:13 crust: when you invite for a game, remember to check the box marked "I play white" and also UNCHECK the box marked "I play black"
2013-05-07 13:20:41 crust: or the other way round, obviously
2013-05-07 13:21:28 crust: see, got me confused as well
2013-05-07 13:55:12 Watson: in fact I have encountered the same problem before and eventually I have to play three white games :o
2013-05-07 14:07:45 Hagbard: Could be a bug here, I'll check later today.
2013-05-07 14:30:55 Watson: thanks!
2013-05-07 20:45:26 Hagbard: Fixed.
2013-05-08 18:28:00 Watson: I can invite others to play white now:D
2013-05-10 12:25:44 Jurgenson: Have an offer to try other variants initial arrangement Hnefatafl: celtica.narod.ru/hnef/Image7.gif celtica.narod.ru/hnef/Image6.gif
2013-05-21 17:12:54 Sybil: I sent to Hagbard italian translation's rules!
2013-05-28 23:23:56 Hagbard: New in the photos gallery: A new tafl set made by Sybil.
2013-05-29 13:13:51 Hagbard: Based on the test tournament balances I suppose it'll be fair to rate the variants Skalk Hnefatafl edge 11x11 Sea battle tafl 11x11
2013-05-30 22:18:29 Adam: I will be promoting hnefatafl at the Tønsberg middleages festival this weekend in Norway. A new giant board has been made specially for the occasion. I will send in some pictures. Hopefully I will encourage some new players to visit the site.
2013-05-31 13:10:29 altti: Aage, could you help. nath and i have a game which is hopelessly deadlocked. hnefatafl 11x11. white is fortified but only has one captured black.
2013-05-31 22:36:44 crust: Do not tempt him, shallow ones. He requires a sacrifice
2013-05-31 23:07:19 Hagbard: Well this game altti/nath is a good example of the hnefatafl 11x11 edge draw fort. It required a struggle from Altti to obtain such a fort, so this game illustrates that the kill-two-blacks-before-a-draw is a fair medicine against the center fort, but maybe less fair for other draws.
2013-06-01 04:49:20 altti: there was a game i played v conanlib (not certain) which the same occured yet i was black. can you recall the result of that decision?
2013-06-01 08:34:56 Hagbard: Yes the result of the old game can be changed also - if we should come to agree that the kill-two-blacks-before-a-draw is a center fort rule.
2013-06-01 09:41:06 altti: i can agree to that. it is neither players interest to allow the other to take a piece or improve their possition.
2013-06-07 14:10:00 Hagbard: To altti: a quick solution is done: when the king is on an edge square, the "Offer draw" button is available.
2013-06-07 14:55:58 altti: thank you for the help. this is a wonderful site that we can take part in lighting up a game lost to time.
2013-06-11 13:35:01 Shaunyman: Hi. I have been trying to contact Crust for several weeks since he told me about the English Championship at Sutton Woo. Cant get him by Email or Mobile phone. I am a bit worried about him, has anyone heard from him? Thanks
2013-06-11 15:24:26 Adam: I spoke to crust briefly today. So I can confirm that he is alive at least.
2013-06-11 21:32:26 Hagbard: New in the photos gallery: Adam's photos from the Tønsberg Middelages Festival.
2013-06-13 02:39:26 crust: no I'm not
2013-06-15 18:15:34 crust: Min luftpudebåd er fyldt med ål
2013-06-15 19:11:20 Monthy: My hovercraft is full of eels
2013-06-16 19:57:13 altii: i accepted a game against eragoon but it was blank with a resigned status stating all pieces as captured.
2013-06-16 22:25:26 Hagbard: eragoons first and only move was the resign...
2013-06-16 23:24:19 altti: oh, thanks
2013-06-24 12:08:50 Hagbard: 2013 Fetlar World Championship scheduled for Saturday 3rd August on the Shetland island Fetlar! See more here: w w w.fetlar.org/hnefatafl-world-championship
2013-06-25 19:32:48 Hagbard: Does anyone know the precise rules of Norse America, out of the game box?
2013-07-08 06:05:13 KEVERD: Im here!
2013-07-08 06:31:39 KEVERD: I cant start a game with a friend it just refreshes the page. :(
2013-07-16 12:09:26 Hagbard: New in the photos gallery: conanlibrarian's photos from Karlskoga in Sweden, and two photos of his new Tablut board.
2013-07-17 21:46:03 Chuck Ward: To Hagbard:I have the Norse America rules book I can scan.
2013-07-18 01:26:03 Hagbard: Could you please email them to me? We are several who have for a long time wondered how they are exactly.
2013-07-18 23:02:25 Hagbard: - or give a detailed description in the forum, please.
2013-07-20 05:24:28 Chuck Ward: To Hagbard:Sent to your email
2013-07-21 12:57:06 Hagbard: Thanks a lot, very interesting! I can write a summary for the forum when I have some time.
2013-07-21 22:23:32 Chuck Ward: not a problem :)
2013-07-24 19:15:27 Sybil: From Italy we'll think you at Hnefatafl World Championship 2013!!! We would like to join it!!!!!
2013-07-25 17:34:48 Watson: is it possible to capture the king at the side of the board when there is no white warrior left (Fetlar Hnefatafl 11x11)?
2013-07-25 18:28:37 Hagbard: Yes, because white is not capable of making any move.
2013-07-26 08:15:35 Watson: I see...thanks for that:)
2013-08-03 12:47:31 crust: Thibaut Palmans ("Dragonheels") is 40 tomorrow - Happy birthday to him, he's a great supporter of hnefatafl.
2013-08-04 14:08:01 Chuck Ward: Any update on The Hnefatafl World Championship?
2013-08-04 16:06:39 crust: I heard nothing yet...
2013-08-04 16:18:44 Chuck Ward: oh your not playing this year crust?
2013-08-04 16:32:32 crust: no, it's really someone else's turn! plus it's a heck of a long journey
2013-08-04 16:48:04 Chuck Ward: Understandable.
2013-08-05 13:34:11 crust: cthulhu vs. the vikings - they're playing our song!!
2013-08-05 16:05:12 crust: The Quickplay World hnefatafl Championship 2013 was won by Amanda Caukwell of Fetlar, Shetland. Congratulations to her, she is Shetland's first home-grown winner
2013-08-06 22:23:17 crust: Yes, Aage, I noticed you updated the champions list already :)
2013-08-07 09:25:40 Hagbard: Right, and we're going to also find out, who'll be this year's Internet Champion! The Internet Championship Tournament started two days ago, and the sign in for the tournament will be open for 20 days. Good luck!
2013-08-08 12:52:38 crust: there's a thought-proviking broadcast about hnefatafl here: theworld.org/2013/08/hnefatafl/ don't forget to put the usual w's and a dot in front
2013-08-08 12:54:47 crust: it's from the creator of "cthulhu vs the vikings" who argues that hnefatafl could be useful in training intelligence professionals... does he mean spies?
2013-08-08 13:40:15 Hagbard: wauw!
2013-08-09 19:43:48 crust: REMINDER: English National Hnefatafl Championship 2013 to be held Sunday 18th August from 10 a.m. at Sutton Hoo, near Woodbridge, Suffolk, UK. Free to enter, but there is a charge to enter the site (National Trust). Organised by Ealdfaeder Saxons, who also present Saxon crafts and storytelling. Rules: Fetlar. Umpire: Tim Millar (crust). Trophies for senior and junior categories, plus special "I beat the grand-master" awards. Got to beat me to get one of them! Hope to see some of you there
2013-08-10 17:31:41 Hagbard: Interview with Mjølnir in Neues Deutschland: w w w.neues-deutschland.de/artikel/829779.koenig-schnappen-und-dorsch-fangen.html (hat tip: René Gralla)
2013-08-11 11:01:11 crust: Thanks aage for posting the notice :)
2013-08-11 11:05:34 Hagbard: With the hope that you'll have a good tournament in Sutton Hoo! Looking forward to the photos, and who will be the English Champion 2013.
2013-08-12 21:41:31 Adam: Good luck to all in the online tournament. Should be a good one!
2013-08-19 11:39:21 crust: 2013 English National Hnefatafl champion: Pete Jennings. Junior champion: Guinevere Ferry-Swainson. Congratulations to them, there were some very hard-fought matches. photos soon.
2013-08-19 17:57:23 Hagbard: Congratulations with the completed English national tournament! And you had a fine weather for it, too. How many then won the "I beat the grand-master" awards...?
2013-08-19 19:59:30 crust: Erm... none, but I hope they enjoyed trying ;)
2013-08-19 20:00:00 crust: I'll mail you some pics Aage
2013-08-19 20:21:11 Chuck Ward: Sorry to all I am playing, but my computer at the moment is not working well with Java...hopefully I will be able to fix soon
2013-08-19 20:26:59 Hagbard: No Java needed for the tournament. Java is only in work when playing against the computer.
2013-08-19 20:58:07 Chuck Ward: Then I don't know what it is and that makes me worry. I hope to figure it out.
2013-08-19 21:00:36 Hagbard: New in photos gallery: crust's photo series from the Sutton Hoo tournament yesterday.
2013-08-20 11:22:06 crust: Thanks for posting the pictures Hagbard ;) (you can take the notice down now)
2013-08-22 17:00:49 crust: Hey hagbard, would there be aby way of making the games archive searchable? (e.g. by player name, rule variant etc?) Just asking ;)
2013-08-22 17:01:35 crust: "any" - damn gremlins
2013-08-23 08:24:40 Hagbard: Good idea; it's put on the todo list.
2013-08-25 02:58:50 crust: that would be great! Thanks
2013-08-30 20:46:52 Hagbard: The Altti / Nath tournament game has arrived at an interesting and unusual board position. The king did reach the edge together with ten of his men forming an unusual kind of edge fort. On the one hand this fort is not exactly invulnerable, but on the other hand black might not be able to capture any white piece without losing. How to handle this situation?
2013-08-30 22:40:17 crust: is it not a case of repetitive moves? Altti must be repeating the same board position three times
2013-08-31 00:43:14 Hagbard: Yes, white must repeat positions; but the king reached the edge which ends the game in case of an edge win fort. Also this is not eternal check. Black's moves are not forced as in eternal check; black moves freely and voluntarily chooses not to proceed the game by capturing a white. But the fort is not a genuine edge win fort. Could this happen to be the first seen case of the "Altti fort" and a draw?
2013-08-31 01:08:16 crust: It's certainly a tricky one to adjudicate. The rules say "perpetual repetitions are forbidden" and "the threatening player must break the pattern and find another move" but both players are quite threatening here. It's not a winning edge fort for white, because black *could* capture pieces from it, but only at risk of losing the corner and the game, nevertheless it's black's choice not to attack; the fort is not "impregnable". White is condemned to repeat moves, black has the choice. But could black not win by simply repeating moves until the computer decides that the same board position has been repeated 3 times?
2013-08-31 01:08:57 altti: I did my best to thwart the rules ☺. these things happen. I do not need to make three repeating moves as I have three pieces that I choose to move in alteration. I am waiting for the time black takes a piece. at which time pieces on both sides begin to be taken.
2013-08-31 02:19:15 crust: then the slaughter begins! Very interesting position, altti
2013-08-31 04:57:03 altti: I ran out of options. nath is an extremely top notch player.
2013-08-31 08:25:53 crust: yes, I noticed that too :)
2013-08-31 23:59:01 Hagbard: "White win edge fort: the king's side also wins if the king has contact with the board edge, is able to move, and it is impossible for black to capture him." If anything, the Altti fort is a win fort, because it meets the three criteria?
2013-09-01 09:40:06 crust: yes, but only if you define "impossible" to mean "impossible without losing control of the corner" - it's not impossible in the same sense as a regular edge fort
2013-09-01 09:47:14 crust: very tough problem, very interesting question. Even if white can move a few different pieces around, surely the same board position will be repeated 3 times eventually, which should mean a win for black. If for some reason this does not happen, then I presume it's a draw, since black can't break up white's position without losing the game. I see Hagbard's point though, but as I said, it depends how you define "impossible" ;)
2013-09-01 10:15:19 Hagbard: The edge win fort with solid walls is easy to recognize and to define, which is good for the clearness of rules. In the Altti position the king reached the edge but white is not able to complete the solid walls. At the same time, despite that the fort is not solid, black is not able to break it without losing. A draw then? Did Altti manage to find a draw fort here?
2013-09-01 10:49:43 Hagbard: New in photo gallery: Sven Mattes' Hnefatafl board, UK.
2013-09-01 12:32:15 crust: Thanks for posting the pictures! I would suggest a draw is the most honourable course, if both players are willing. I would call it a draw position, rather than a draw fort, because it is structurally breakable; it's only the lucky fact that black can't break it without losing the game which makes it work in this case.
2013-09-01 12:39:12 crust: nice conundrum!
2013-09-02 04:33:29 altti: it would seem that the game is more complex than our victory conditions allow for.
2013-09-02 08:09:04 Hagbard: Maybe the fifty-move rule known from chess (when the last fifty successive moves made by both players contain no capture, it's draw) could apply for Hnefatafl also?
2013-09-02 08:41:06 Hagbard: Something like: "When a game exceeds 100 moves and the last fifty successive moves made by both players contain no capture, it's a draw."
2013-09-03 20:25:13 crust: sounds like it might be worth a try. Also we might think about appointing an umpire for future tournaments; and a deputy umpire to adjudicate games in which the umpire is playing. ...and a second deputy for the games where the umpire is playing against the deputy...
2013-09-03 23:09:47 Hagbard: We can still appoint an umpire for the current tournament. I'd suggest Millar as he's the chairman.
2013-09-04 07:53:00 Hagbard: Our tournament was announced on cyningstan: h t t p://tafl.cyningstan.org.uk/news/635/on-line-hnefatafl-tournament-under-way
2013-09-04 20:19:34 Adam: I've been watching the Allti/Nath game with great interest. Unless I have missed something, with the Copenhagen rules as they stand for the tournament this is a clear cut case of board repetition leading to a white loss, providing Nath keeps to shuffling one piece back and forth, which he isn't so the computer is not seeing a repetition. Brilliant though it is as a draw fort, copenhagen doesnt allow draw forts, it allows exit win forts, which this 'almost' is. A draw in copenhagen is not when black can't get at white, (as in fetlar) its when they don't have the manpower to lock white down, and white can't escape either. Here the king has locked himself down. (Sorry Allti, its a brilliant draw fort like I said!). I am not convinced we should introduce 50 moves without capture leading to a draw, as it is often the case that white forces black to patiently tighten the noose and ultimately, perhaps inevitably crush the white pieces, but it can take a loooong time. The 50 moves ru
2013-09-05 01:55:41 altti: put in that light I would have to agree. the king and his men are "captured". I have three pieces I choose to move and wait for black to take one so that I can open up an escape. Nath of course sees this and avoids it. neither side takes any more pieces, and there is no progress in the game. however I wont capitulate as this is the best I can do.
2013-09-05 05:33:42 Hagbard: A special board position indeed. It has given rise to three different suggestions for a solution. One suggested a white win, another a draw, and a third a black win! The computer didn't foresee this particular situation; it will eventually detect three repetitions but may arbitrarily choose one winner or the other. Is this a case for the umpire?
2013-09-05 09:29:31 crust: I can't speak as umpire, because that wasn't agreed beforehand, but speaking as another player, I think a draw would be the most honourable outcome, though technically speaking it's a win for black. If I were either player in this game I'd offer/accept a draw
2013-09-05 10:06:38 Hagbard: A draw would be a safe solution as it could not change the outcome of the tournament, as far as I can see.
2013-09-05 14:07:49 crust: however I wouldn't blame Nath if he insisted on claiming a win; I think the rules are on his side. The problem then becomes, at what point does the game end, if the computer is not recognizing the board repetitions (or not identifying which player must be forced to make an alternative move)?
2013-09-05 15:02:40 crust: congratulations Nath for getting over 2000 in the ratings - A new record I believe!
2013-09-05 15:55:09 Adam: Naths position allows him to control who is causing the repetition. He can create a novel board position which gives alti an alternative move which would lead to him losing. Alltis board position will repeat providing nath allows it to do so. Only nath can control this, which is why it's a loss for white under Copenhagen rules. I'm confident the computer will spot the board repetition when it occurs. And let's remember why Copenhagen rules came about, it was to avoid situations that depend on honour or FairPlay to be resolved, as these are subjective
2013-09-05 15:55:36 Adam: Naths position allows him to control who is causing the repetition. He can create a novel board position which gives alti an alternative move which would lead to him losing. Alltis board position will repeat providing nath allows it to do so. Only nath can control this, which is why it's a loss for white under Copenhagen rules. I'm confident the computer will spot the board repetition when it occurs. And let's remember why Copenhagen rules came about, it was to avoid situations that depend on honour or FairPlay to be resolved, as these are subjective
2013-09-05 21:07:12 crust: is there an echo in here? Good point Adam, we don't want to go back to pre-copenhagen draws; copenhagen takes all the various draw scenarios from Fetlar and divides them up into white wins and black wins. The anti-repetition rule kills off all draw forts except winning edge forts; I think we can agree that this is not one of the winning ones? (Though it looks a bit like one). Therefore white loses by repetition.
2013-09-05 21:10:55 Adam: sorry about the double posting, sent from iphone! I would like to add that while I am fairly confident in what I said about black being in control of who is forcing the repetition in that they can create a novel board position without endangering themselves, if somehow white 'could' do this, black would get a repetition warning. If this proves to be unavoidable for black, then I would agree that this is a draw. However I believe that if Nath plays it correctly, Allti will receive the repetition warning. Black doesn't even need to give them an alternative move in order to break open the fort. The repetition is enough to lose the game.
2013-09-05 21:13:50 crust: by the way, apologies to both players for the fact that we're discussing all this while the game is still going on ;)
2013-09-05 21:21:43 Hagbard: When the game is finished it's too late to sort out how it should end...
2013-09-05 21:27:45 crust: Yes. besides, it's their fault for finding such an interesting and controversial hnefatafl position
2013-09-10 15:44:02 Hagbard: The computer is detecting repetitions in the Altti/Nath game now, but apparently cannot find out who exactly is the aggressor. The algorithm was written with eternal checks in mind and alas doesn't take into account a very different kind of deadlock position such as this one. After the tournament, the program will be refined to cover those also.
2013-09-10 20:14:45 crust: well, that's one of the reasons for having these tournaments, to wring out the bugs
2013-09-12 14:06:41 Nath: I won to every kind of rule (if it's equal for black and white), because I have more pieces without function that have more fields than he have pieces and fields in sum. The one how causes the repetition is the player that move second, because the really fist move is not counted from the computer. I let Altti come to this position, because I knew the game is won for me with current rules. But we should think about a rule to short up such games. I don't mind for now, but it's annoying to make hundreds of moves in a game that is obviously won for one side.
2013-09-13 10:18:04 Hagbard: Well, even if an umpire wasn't appointed beforehand, Altti and Nath could still agree to use chairman Millar as a mediator for this particular game?
2013-09-13 14:10:19 altti: I agree to that
2013-09-13 20:29:42 crust: sorry, thanks for the vote of confidence but in this instance it's a bit difficult for me to act as umpire, partly because it was not agreed in advance, and I don't want to embarrass either player by insisting they accept my judgment, but mainly because I've just been discussing it openly right here. I would prefer this time to merely offer my recommendation, as a fellow player, which is this: either Nath offers a draw, or Altti resigns: either outcome risks leaving one player feeling a bit cheated if it is imposed on them by a third party. I have to say, if I were Nath I would offer a draw, and if I were Altti, I would resign. If neither of them are prepared to budge, then it's going to be a very long game indeed. Either player has the power to end the game at any moment, so unless the computer intervenes, it's up to them. Since the game clearly isn't going anywhere interesting from this juncture, I'm surprised either of them would want to prolong it just for a point. So t
2013-09-13 20:31:57 crust: So that's my Caucasian Chalk Circle judgement, each player has a key to unlock the prison for both of them to go free, or they can both be each other's jailers and keep each other locked in forever. Their choice.
2013-09-14 20:31:54 crust: but that's just my opinion ;) feel free to ignore it of course!
2013-09-15 19:29:27 Adam: Regarding the nath allti game. I'm not surprised that the computer has not recognised a board repetition, simply because black does not appear to be repeating his moves in order to bring an end to the deadlock. I hesitate to give what sounds like advice, so I shall try to be hypothetical. If white were in a position where they can no longer control the generation of novel board positions, black would only need to generate a novel board position, allow white to move, and then simply shuffle another pice back and forth until such time as white is forced to cause the board positions to repeat for a third time. If however black were to move other pieces, they would be creating novel board positions the whole time. So the trick would be for black to force white to cause the board repetition. Coming back to the nath allti game, looking at the game notation, I don't see any determined attempt by black to make this happen. Is it in order to ask if anyone has received a repetition warning fro
2013-09-15 19:31:14 Adam: ...From the computer? I would guess not due to blacks very varied manoeuvring.
2013-09-15 19:35:38 Adam: (I meant to say that the computer is having trouble finding the aggressor, not recognising the board repetition) :)
2013-09-22 02:42:23 nath: We had the warning some moves ago. I don't whether we'll get one again. I have to admit I don't really care anymore. I can prove mathematically that this position is won for me. If I wouldn't be able to determinate the position I'd accept the draw. But it doesn't sound logical for me accept a draw, since I can proof that this is a winning position for me.
2013-09-22 09:02:21 Hagbard: Here is a compromise, we could do like this: 1. The game is ended as a black win. This is important as it affects the statistics counting. 2. Black wins 1 point in the championship tournament. 3. BUT, since this whole thing has not been a 100% clear, Altti and Nath both keep their ratings in the rating list unchanged. I'll admit that you found a gap in the rules. We did at some point discuss situations like this in the large forum, but the discussions has not led to an appropriate text in the rules, yet.
2013-09-22 09:04:51 Hagbard: And by the way, Nath already won the WTF championship 2013, congratulations!
2013-09-22 09:38:30 Hagbard: New test tournament: Sea battle tafl 9x9 (Imperial Contest). NB Same rules as Sea battle tafl 9x9 but with the twist that the cargo ship cannot move more than four squares per move.
2013-09-22 09:55:00 crust: Congratulations Nath! You are really bringing some strong tactics. Very well deserved victory
2013-09-22 23:55:46 nath: I understand crusts point. He's right. Basically a half point means nothing in this situation. I don't care about the result of this game nor about the rating change. But I consider it also as unfair to every player who played, plays or will play against me in any important game. Since I know I'm afflicted with strong principles, I don't want to bother. I'd accept this.
2013-09-26 07:49:20 Hagbard: Well Altti, what would you say about my suggested compromise 2013-09-22 09:02:21 ?
2013-09-26 12:01:19 altti: neither side can fulfill the victory requirements. I see it as a draw.
2013-09-26 12:38:04 altti: both sides are entrenched. a compromise is when both sides give up their victory and draw the game. the rules are arbitrary and can evolve. if the goal is to design a game that has no draw positions then we have ignored the nature of the game. all games have positions which can become entrenched.
2013-09-26 13:10:00 crust: The problem seems to be with the computer, not with the rules. The rules give the victory to black, but the computer is not imposing this, maybe because white has a range of repeatable moves. You want a draw, nath wants a win. A draw is not a fair compromise between these two wishes; if there was an outcome half-way between a black win and a draw, that would be perfect. Unfortunately there isn't. So either outcome is going to be a little unfair. But I stress the word "little". This should not be a big deal. Let's end this game and get on with our lives. Either outcome, though not ideal, should be fair enough to satisfy anyone. One of you has to accept a very slight disadvantage in order to end the game, or else you'll both be stuck there forever.
2013-09-26 18:15:34 Fairland: Hi guys! Back from a long absence from hnefatafl. I noticed my account is basically gone. Is there any way to get it back up or should I just create a new one with the same name?
2013-09-26 18:33:40 Hagbard: @Fairland: account restored
2013-09-26 18:56:05 Fairland: Thanks very much!
2013-09-26 21:25:53 Hagbard: Copenhagen balances are updated in the balances overview page. Result of the championship tournament was balance +1.30.
2013-09-26 22:48:35 crust: Hey Fairland, welcome back!!
2013-09-27 03:56:38 Fairland: Hello crust! I am anxious to continue my many failed attempts at beating you. Interestingly enough my phone will not recognize the password. So I can only play from borrowed computers.
2013-09-27 07:16:05 Hagbard: @Fairland: please try again with the phone.
2013-09-27 13:11:31 crust: apparently the Roskilde viking ship is going to London for a Viking exhibition next year! It will be transported in flat-pack form - how appropriate ;)
2013-09-27 18:14:46 Hagbard: 2007-2008 it sailed to Dublin and return with 65 men at the oars, and it is planned to some day sail to New York.
2013-09-27 19:55:44 crust: Oh that's the sea stallion? I think it's the other ship that's going to London :) the one they dug up
2013-09-27 23:13:04 Hagbard: You're right, I checked the National Museum web site. The exhibition is in Copenhagen now, and will travel to London next and then Berlin.
2013-09-27 23:19:43 Fairland: @hagbard. It works now, thank you!
2013-09-28 09:09:54 crust: to hagbard, will you be able to see it in Copenhagen? (The city was of course named after a famous set of hnefatafl rules)
2013-09-28 09:15:36 Hagbard: Yes, and I'm planning to; it's a very large viking exhibition, a large international collection of items assembled and the largest viking exhibition here since 1993.
2013-09-28 09:37:01 Hagbard: Winners of the Fetlar World Championship are nominated "Hnefatafl Grand Masters". I wonder, couldn't we nominate winners of the World Tafl Forum Championship "World Tafl Forum Grand Masters"? Fetlar masters should also automatically be on the World Tafl Forum masters list.
2013-09-28 10:19:20 crust: Absolutely right! Nath is clearly a Grand Master, I don't think anyone could disagree. I was going to wait until the last game finished, but it looks like it's going on for a few more years yet. So, let us nominate Nath as our first World Tafl Forum Grand Master. Nath, I don't know your name or address, would you email me at anomalocharisAThotmailDOTcom, and I'll do you a lovely certificate. Congratulations again.
2013-09-28 10:22:53 crust: Hagbard has nominated Nath to be named as WTF Grand Master, and I'm seconding it. Any objections?? Congratulations to all participants in the internet championship; there were some fascinating games going on.
2013-09-28 12:25:15 altti: I agree to the motion Nath be recognized as our WTF Grand Master.
2013-09-28 17:00:55 Watson: no objection(I am just a passerby)
2013-09-29 09:40:34 Adam: Congratulations Nath! May I also suggest next year we agree on having a referee, possibly a panel of three, for settling disputes that the computer cannot solve. Thanks to everyone for our most challenging tournament yet! And thanks as always to Aage for running the show.
2013-09-29 21:32:50 crust: Yes, thanks Aage! And that sounds very sensible; 3 umpires would be advisable, agreed on in advance of course.
2013-09-30 10:02:09 Hagbard: New in photo gallery: open-air hnefatafl set at Shave Farm, Somerset, UK.
2013-10-08 12:33:19 Hagbard: Nath, would you prefer to be listed on the champions' list with your real name, or only with the alias "Nath"?
2013-10-11 08:39:51 crust: to Hagbard; now that the altti/nath game has finished in the WTF Copenhagen tournament, I checked the table to see how far behind Nath in the points I am... LOL I'm on the same number of points, somehow, because the timeout games aren't being counted, and Nath had more of those than I did. So it looks like I came joint first! It's o.k. I'm not disputing the result (nath beat me twice in the tournament), but it cheered me up this morning.
2013-10-11 18:18:21 Hagbard: yes, it comes out a bit different when the timeouts are not counted.
2013-10-14 21:32:19 Adam: Berserk tournament now running. It's a fantastically entertaining variant of Aage's invention, which could do with more tournament testing, so hopefully all the usual suspects will join in ;)
2013-10-14 22:15:16 crust: Kayser Sose!
2013-10-20 12:56:40 Hagbard: The Uig Museum on the Hebrides, Scotland, is hacked by a Chinese dating site, has been for quite some time now.
2013-10-28 09:26:01 crust: Arrrr! I be the Longships Captain, Pirate King and terror of the seven seas. Well done me.
2013-10-28 10:53:20 Hagbard: Captain Blood!
2013-10-28 11:37:42 crust: great tournament, thanks to cap'n hagbard for running it!
2013-10-29 23:32:56 Nath: congrats :)
2013-10-31 11:39:51 Coolstar1111: Great game. I should make a live replicate. Not claiming it as my own of course.
2013-11-03 20:43:59 Derek: My brother pronounces it Hentafelen
2013-11-03 21:55:42 Anonymouse: I am really good at this. Nice game, Very good. Its amazing. Nice graphics and all.
2013-11-04 00:03:56 Hagbard: Hentafelen - Norwegian?
2013-11-04 10:05:24 Вася Пупкин: здесь русские бывают?
2013-11-04 10:16:41 Hagbard: Понимаем русский, давай
2013-11-07 17:58:05 fairland: Ada, the new guy to the cite, is a student of Russian.
2013-11-08 06:34:22 Hagbard: Rene Gralla from Germany informed about a recent newspaper article about Hnefatafl in Tromsø, there's a link to the article below on this page.
2013-11-11 18:16:29 Hagbard: New test tournament: Skalk Hnefatafl edge 11x11. Remember, outside center the king is captured from only two sides, and therefore the king isn't as threatening as usual. Wins however on board edge.
2013-11-12 14:11:05 Adam: Are the rules any different from the skalk 11x11 edge tafl tournament performed a year ago?
2013-11-12 15:32:44 Hagbard: No, they're the same. But several players believed that white had a too easy play last year, because the black players forgot about the king's weakness. And thus the measured balance could be misleading.
2013-11-12 19:49:34 Fairland: MAN! I am glad I read that comment! I would have been murdered in this tournament!
2013-11-18 00:00:02 altti: is there anyway I can stop the site from constantly loading and returning the screen to the top of the page every few seconds
2013-11-18 07:35:42 Hagbard: The question is about the Check my Current Games page. The reload feature makes it easy to play real time against an opponent who is present at his computer right now. Every five seconds the page checks if the opponent has moved and it is your turn, but after five minutes it checks only once per minute. When it found that it is your turn, it checs no more.
2013-11-21 20:26:13 Hagbard: Just seen the movie Thor 2011. It begins in Tønsberg, Norway, 965 A.D.!
2013-11-26 21:29:33 Hagbard: Rene Gralla from Germany informed about a hnefatafl exhibition match in Berlin November 28th. There's a link about it below on this page.
2013-11-27 17:37:59 Adam: Good Stuff. I hope the chess player Silje will try some training games against human players on this site.
2013-12-01 08:11:17 Hagbard: Adam's on 2000!
2013-12-01 12:19:10 altti: looks like he'll take the tourney too. congrats Adam
2013-12-01 20:49:52 Hagbard: Test run of another historical version: the David Brown rules from 1980. King unarmed, wins on edge. Remember that the David Brown throne is friendly towards all ordinary pieces.
2013-12-01 21:47:28 Adam: Thank You! Finally made it into the 21st century, albeit briefly. ;)
2013-12-01 21:50:36 Hagbard: Nath was present at the Berlin tournament and reports: Silje Bjerke played against Olaf Koppe, the director of "Neues Deutschland", the newspaper that offered the location for the tournament.
2013-12-02 22:09:30 nath: What are David Brown rules exactly?
2013-12-02 23:54:58 Hagbard: It's very close to a Sea Battle Tafl 11x11. See the rules page, and also follow the link to Damian Walker's page about the version. It's implemented as described there, except for one detail: according to the original rules only one piece can be killed at a time, but here you can kill up to three pieces at a time as usual.
2013-12-03 00:22:16 nath: I mainly ment the judgment of the perpetual repetition. That is one of the most core questions according to different Hnefatafl rules. Isn't this the same as Salk Hnefatafl 11x11 to the edge? We noticed that both variants king hammer only/anvil only at a 11x11 board is in favor for black. Why should an unarmed king be stronger?
2013-12-03 00:56:05 Hagbard: David Brown doesn't mention about repetitions, which therefore is assumed to be allowed. But in return the encirclement rule prevents the early center draw forts. Skalk is not the same, because the Skalk king is captured from 2 sides, but the David Brown king is captured from 4 sides.
2013-12-03 01:11:40 Hagbard: The Sea Battle Tafl 11x11 without a throne was found to be in favour of black (just as the 11x11 king hammer only/anvil only, which you mention). The throne probably is a help to white to some unknown degree. The king hammer only/anvil only versions, which we tested, did have a throne but were still in favour of black. However the David Brown throne is different in that it is friendly to all common pieces.
2013-12-03 01:18:21 Hagbard: - which is another help to white.
2013-12-03 01:33:38 nath: Sorry I didn't mean Salk, but anvil/hammer only 11x11 to the edge Hnefatafl. I just had a look at our old testgames. I couldn't find any capture at the throne. So I doubt that this will change much about the balancing. But ok - have fun to all participants!
2013-12-03 06:08:41 Hagbard: That might be so. A couple of points more: the repetitions are a help to white. And the rule about not more than one piece be killed in one move is a help to white; but this is a difficult one to implement, because it requires the player to be able to mark which piece to kill and which to preserve.
2013-12-05 04:52:54 cyningstan: I think that the David Brown rules (and sea battle tafl, for that matter) might become a bit more balanced if the defenders are set out in a cross instead of a diamond. It doesn't look as pretty, but gives them control of two ranks and two files at the beginning of the game - and makes it easier to get the king out. I don't propose a rule change for David Brown as it's historical, but sea battle tafl could benefit from it.
2013-12-06 11:39:59 Hagbard: New in photos gallery: Photos and report from the Hnefatafl event in Berlin November 28th sent by Rene Gralla.
2013-12-06 17:21:51 vonraider: Good article. Thanks for posting.
2013-12-07 14:28:16 Fairland: I liked it, too. And congrats to Nath who became a strong secondary focus of the article!
2013-12-08 15:17:02 Hagbard: New in photo gallery: photo series from Izborsk, Russia.
2013-12-10 06:30:30 Hagbard: The Berserk test tournament is completed, and the measured game balance is +1.10, calculated the same way as the balance has been calculated for other variants. An encouraging result, thanks a lot to the players for the help with testing!
2013-12-11 02:48:41 altti: as Nath is reigning world champion that would mean that we all have world rankings. cool ranked 7th in world ☺
2013-12-11 17:41:15 vonraider: Hey, if that's true, then I'm doing alright!
2013-12-17 16:59:08 Hagbard: New link in the Berlin-window below, to Bergens Schakklub. The note (in Norwegian) informs that the Norwegian chess master won the Berlin Hnefatafl demonstration match against the Neues Deutschland editor, and that Nath was judge of the game.
2013-12-17 23:28:08 Adam: That's great. I hope we get some more Norwegians playing thanks to the link in the article.
2013-12-19 11:54:32 Hagbard: Finnish linguist Olli Salmi has renewed the discussion on the Linné diary and the Lapp Tablut. Still more points towards the "Skalk Hnefatafl edge 9x9" being it. I suppose it could deserve another test run when the current one is finished. You'll find the debate in the large forum, subject "Linnaeus Tablut and Translations".
2013-12-19 19:21:03 Hagbard: News column added in the Hnefatafl in Berlin window.
2013-12-20 09:44:28 Hagbard: To cyningstan: Interesting idea for the Sea Battle tafl 11x11 to try a cross form initial ordering, your theory being that this would be a help to white. We should try out such a variant after New Year.
2013-12-20 21:06:49 Hagbard: Altti, you're ranked no. 5 now!
2013-12-20 22:27:26 altti: its funny. I had ratings numbers in the 1800's at one point and was only ranked at 7 I believe.
2013-12-21 08:41:41 Hagbard: Snapshots show that your rating was recently 1740 and after Hagbard and Jurgenson. Now it's 1776 and before both of them.
2013-12-21 08:53:17 Hagbard: A very merry Yule and Happy New Year to all the diligent, energetic and inspiring players here!
2013-12-21 16:16:45 altti: solstice blessings to all
2013-12-23 19:48:56 Fairland: Merry Christmas!
2013-12-25 03:54:56 Nath: Merry Christmas to all!
2013-12-25 12:38:32 Adam: Happy feasting season fellow Vikings! Skol!
2013-12-26 13:41:30 Adam: Or rather 'skål!' ;)
2013-12-27 08:25:01 Hagbard: Yule present from altti: two new boards in the gallery.
2013-12-27 18:40:04 Fairland: I wonder if the x shape white starting setup would help with games like ard ri also.
2014-01-01 00:26:04 sun231: Happy New Year!!!
2014-01-01 08:01:34 Fairland: Feliz ano Nuevo a todos!
2014-01-02 10:50:37 Roderich: Hi Hagbard, right now, I'm analyzing Copenhagen games from this website's archive like I did before with Fetlar games. In the archive appear some "Old Copenhagen" games. Did they have the same rules as "Modern Copenhagen" or was there a difference? Greetings, R
2014-01-02 10:59:29 Hagbard: Happy New Year, Roderich. The difference from "old" to "new" Copenhagen is that the shieldwall rule was added.
2014-01-03 20:38:46 Roderich: Happy New Year to you guys too. I'm glad to find you're all still here playing tafl! Have I missed something worth mentioning? I hope to meet you soon on the board. R
2014-01-03 20:44:58 Hagbard: You missed the championship tournament, but the winner is German all the same.
2014-01-04 00:51:52 timw: New here. Question: it looks to me that white can always force a draw by staying close to the center square with enough men, moving the king back and forth to the center square. Is that right or am I missing something in the rules?
2014-01-04 06:18:32 Hagbard: Good question, that's a scenario which has been debated much here. The encirclement rule prevents it. If white stays in center, black has good time to encircle all the white party and win. Except Fetlar which does not have the encirclement rule - in return in Fetlar, draw is not allowed until white has killed at least two blacks, so also in Fetlar it's not enough to just stay in center.
2014-01-04 21:03:31 Adam: Hi Timw, try out the Copenhagen rules. They are our solution to exactly that problem. I've been playing tafl variants for over twenty years, and can honestly say Copenhagen rules are the most satisfying variant!
2014-01-05 01:01:40 timw: Thank you Adam and Hagbard. I asked before I realized how much more there is to the site. At the moment I'm just playing the computer, trying to gain some understanding of how the basic game works. I like it! I do not understand why the game is not better known. -timw
2014-01-14 08:29:00 Hagbard: Been many new guests for some days. Could be arriving from this article about whether there are lessons to be learnt from Hnefatafl about war tactics: h t t p s://medium.com/war-is-boring/cef088ae4e2d
2014-01-14 09:44:14 Hagbard: By the way I came across this fine work by Dmitri Skiryuk: h t t p://skyruk.livejournal.com/246910.html
2014-01-14 09:48:32 Hagbard: December 2012 we had a minor invasion of Russian speaking guests after this article by stand-up comedian Mikhail Zadornov: h t t p://mzadornov.livejournal.com/87308.html
2014-01-15 11:35:30 Hagbard: January 12th there were here 1919 unique visits in a single day, more than usually, presumably because of the War is Boring article.
2014-01-17 14:39:00 Adam: The war is boring article was very nice!
2014-01-23 11:16:03 Hagbard: A big thank you to the players who tested the Saami tablut, the results were interesting and valuable! A note about it has been added to the large forum. Here's another historical variant which needs a test run: the tawlbwrdd game described in a Welsh manuscript 1587. The rules are still the Saami rules: king armed and captured from 2 sides, wins on edge. Only, the tawlbwrdd board is size 11x11 and has no throne square.
2014-01-24 22:54:45 Plantagenêt: I'm 19 years old too. Arne Roland.
2014-01-27 14:24:12 Hagbard: New in the large forum: a post from Marc0 about Alea Evangelii.
2014-01-27 21:38:23 altti: I believe I have made my Est, Finn and Swede ancestors proud. Thank you Olli for delving into Linnaeus' translation .
2014-01-30 14:12:21 Hagbard: New in photos gallery: Russian ancient style art.
2014-01-30 20:56:15 Plantagenêt: Sorry, i can't play on computer, i can only play on iPhone that a friend let me every thursday.
2014-02-01 17:52:50 plantagenêt: Now, I play on web room.
2014-02-05 10:11:27 Hagbard: New in photo gallery: more albums with thousands of photos of Russian Viking art & life.
2014-02-09 07:38:12 Hagbard: Altti won the Saami tablut tournament, congratulations.
2014-02-09 11:06:41 crust: Well done Altti! You are the Lapp of honour!
2014-02-09 23:32:49 altti: thank you. my first gold medal ☺
2014-02-11 01:03:52 HOK: Does the encirclement rule still apply if white has created a "fort" so that the king can move back and forth out of the center? Eg. - there is an open space within the "fort?"
2014-02-11 01:16:31 crust: yes it does, as long as all the white pieces are enclosed within an unbroken enclosure
2014-02-11 01:27:35 HOK: Thank-you crust...I see this as a problem. To me, it makes more sense that the result is a draw.
2014-02-11 01:43:12 crust: that's the way it used to be, but we found that some players would sometimes just play for a draw. White can get a draw position in 2 moves.
2014-02-11 01:52:07 HOK: That makes sense...I guess I'm still new at it, and I find that if I get blocked, there seems to be no other option. Building those forts late in the game was tough!
2014-02-11 01:54:51 HOK: Thanks for taking the time to explain this.
2014-02-11 06:23:48 Hagbard: Fetlar Hnefatafl 11x11 has the center draw fort; but remember in Fetlar to kill two attackers first.
2014-02-11 09:32:01 crust: yes sorry I was talking about the Copenhagen rules ;)
2014-02-12 09:59:35 Adam: Well played Altti in the Saami tablut tournament! And Duhawk93 too for a hard fought second place. I think we gave that version a robust testing.
2014-02-12 10:05:47 Adam: @HOK - copenhagen rules are very much the result of finding a way to incorporate fort building in a way that won't lead to a stalemate. So remember that a fort on the board edge, where the king is inside the fort, able to move and have contact with the board edge, is considered an 'exit fort' and therefore a white win. Other 'drawforts' fall foul of the board repetition rule or enclosure rule in copenhagen and are thereby rendered useless. Drawforts are a fun result of the Fetlar rules, which continues to allow them.
2014-02-12 21:09:33 crust: Thanks Hagbard for moving the chat window on to the same page as the game, makes nattering much easier
2014-02-13 06:49:06 Hagbard: The chat now works much like in the beginning, years ago, when the site was built with a different technology.
2014-02-14 02:29:00 Scanny: I can't seem to play due to security settings
2014-02-14 07:08:01 Hagbard: To Scanny: If the games against the computer is the problem, perhaps you have no Java installed. And when you have, your computer might before every game ask for your permission to run the Java applet.
2014-02-14 15:54:00 cyningstan: I am afraid the security settings are getting worse now, Hagbard. People are being forced to fiddle with their Java settings in order to run the hnefatafl games on your site as well as on mine. The only way to get around this is to pay for the applets to be signed. I am currently looking into moving technologies as it looks like the days of the indie Java applet are numbered.
2014-02-14 17:42:10 Hagbard: That is bad news. I chose Java 13 years ago as the really smart solution for the task. "Write once, run everywhere!" What could be more ideal? Then came the tablets and smartphones which have no Java, and now even PCs cannot run it anymore. Well, they can for some time still; usually the browser launches a small pop up window asking for approval of running the applet. Like you I have also thought about porting the applets to another technology, but am reluctant to do so, because those applets took years to make, and it will take a lot of time to port them.
2014-02-14 20:19:39 Hagbard: Thank you to the players for your diligent work testing the Tawlbwrdd with cross initial ordering. Many have expected much from this initial ordering, but I am not sure that the result is as expected; perhaps the Tawlbwrdd should be explored further. As a break from the capture-from-2-sides king, here is a variant with the strongest king, armed and capture-from-4-sides, win in corner. This is the first time a 13x13 game is tournament tested here.
2014-02-15 01:05:00 altti: 13x13 is the king captured on the board edge?
2014-02-15 08:16:59 Hagbard: There are two 13x13 games on the list now, with king captured on the board edge. But the running test tournament is king captured in corner.
2014-02-15 09:17:31 Hagbard: The Tawlbwrdd cross game balance is now measured to -1.59, based on 94 games and 17 players. Strong players counted alone came out with the balance -4.50, based on 22 games and 6 players. Tawlbwrdd is known from historical sources in the UK (Wales), and British Crust did win this one.
2014-02-15 09:49:27 crust: *evil chuckle*
2014-02-15 09:52:27 Cyningstan: Well done Crust! I noticed the tawlbwrdd was being won by black more often than not. A little while ago I discovered another layout which might be less advantageous to black: white in a cross form, and black in four 3x2 blocks. I think it is suggested in Helmfrid but goes back a lot further - to the F. R. Lewis article in 1940.
2014-02-15 10:03:58 Hagbard: The Lewis is an interesting set up to try, after seeing the result of Tawlbwrdd cross. The Lewis set up also matches the historic formulation by Robert ap Ifan in 1587: "a king (brenin) in the centre and twelve men in the places next to him, and twenty-four lie in wait to capture him. These are placed, six in the center of every end of the board and in the six central places." And the formulation matches even more the Lewis diamond set up. These two Lewis set ups are on the list already and ready to try.
2014-02-15 10:04:11 Cyningstan: Oops, I see that the cross & block formation is already on the site.
2014-02-15 13:51:23 Hagbard: More about the 13x13 board: A set up with the same number of pieces as on the 11x11, 36 pieces plus king, is often seen suggested. You can try this as "Hnefatafl 36 13x13". This variant seems very unbalanced and is not rated anymore. As a curiosum you can also try a scattered set up, "Hnefatafl scattered 13x13". This variant is also not rated anymore, at it seems very unbalanced.
2014-02-15 14:51:15 crust: In the table of "measured game balances" I gather a score of +1 or -1 means 50 per cent wins for each colour. +2 means 66 percent wins for white, -2 means 66 per cent win for black. Right so far? So, would +1.5 mean about 58 per cent wins for white?
2014-02-15 14:56:42 crust: chess has a white advantage of 52 - 56 per cent, increasing further with more advanced players. Therefore many of the variants we have tested are as well balanced as chess, or better.
2014-02-15 15:51:23 Hagbard: Balance +1.5 would mean that white wins 60% of the games. (fx. 3 white wins, 2 black wins, balance 3/2 = 1.5. White won 3 out of 5 games = 60%).
2014-02-15 15:55:36 Hagbard: - if white (as in chess) wins 56% of the games, the balance would be 56/44 = +1.27
2014-02-15 16:16:37 crust: thanks for the information! Very interesting
2014-02-16 18:38:44 altti: congratulations Crust. and a crafty second for Adam ☺
2014-02-17 08:24:28 crust: thanks! AFK for a week. See you after that! Have fun
2014-02-17 16:10:09 altti: chat does not seem to be working on some of the test games
2014-02-17 21:11:47 Hagbard: I will look into the chat problem.
2014-02-18 18:48:51 Plantagennêt: I would like to know what is the serie of moves which prevents playing 4.ab6x after 1.h3 b7 2.b8x b7 3.b3 d9?
2014-02-22 23:02:31 nath: The chat does not accept the apostrophe symbol. Even if you go to really experienced players chess is much better balanced than any of the variants we tried so far. It is not surprising since chess is unlike Hnefatafl a symmetric game.
2014-02-22 23:02:57 nath: The first important question is how to measure the balancing. In chess we usually add white and black points up. Since Experienced players draw between 30 and 70 % (depends on the player - Kramnik has much more draws than a player like Iwantschuk). If you do not measure draws you get a complete strange result...specially at high level players.
2014-02-22 23:19:11 nath: That is exactly what you have in a lot of Hnefatafl variants...no draws.
2014-02-22 23:25:25 nath: The second question is how reliable our measures are. There definitely variants in which I am not the strongest player. But I have not seen a variant where many players totally outact me. Chess have a lot of players that start at a young age to play. Even some grand masters that turned playing chess into their job. I learned the basic rules of that game like 9 months ago. I might be able to compete against some of you guys, but my skill is not good enough to make any kind of objective measure. Even if it would be...a lot of measures are just based on 30-60 games. Of course you can use that as an overview: if you see something like -3.3 then you can move on. But it is definitely not reliable as a measure.
2014-02-22 23:27:45 nath: Besides: If anybody think the measure of old Hnefatafl 11x11 (+1.22) is reliable, I am ready to make a bet. We play five games (I always back, you always white). If you manage to get more than 2.5 points you win. Otherwise (I get at least 2.5 points) I win. I would bet 50 $ against 10 $ from you. I do not want to play for money, but you see how much I give on that measure.
2014-02-24 01:16:19 Adam: @nath: the quest for balance continues.. I think your points deserve proper discussion nath, maybe you could open a new 'balance' thread in the large forum. I have a feeling this will generate some in depth discussion easier to follow on the forum. It also makes it easier for newcomers to read up on important discussion about the game.
2014-02-27 21:22:50 Plantagenêt: I would like to know what it is the sequence of moves which prevents playing 4.ab6x after 1.h3 b7 2.b8x b7 3.b3 d9?
2014-02-28 01:48:47 crust: hi plantagenet, when you say "b3" (third move) do you mean "b6-b3" or "h3-b3"?
2014-03-01 21:11:33 Plantagenêt: Sorry, of course, 3.bb3.
2014-03-02 09:26:34 crust: in that case I don't see why 4.a6-b6x should be a problem. Are you saying you were prevented from making that move?
2014-03-02 15:06:20 Plantagenêt: I've a little idea, for example: 1.h3 b7 2.b8x b7 3.bb3 d9 4.ab6x e10 or 4....i8
2014-03-03 15:59:17 nath: @Plantagennêt: I don't think we are good enough to tell for sure who is winning in your position. 4.ab6x is obviously a move that gives a lot of play to the white player. The position after 8. …i8 is definitely worth playing. We don't need a strict series of moves that keep us from taking pieces like we need in other games like chess. Hnefatafl is much more position based. In fact I claim that also black need to sacrifice pieces in certain strong variants to stay in game. The question whether you have a good or a weak position is about positioning and developing, but not really about the number of your pieces. If you don't have any pieces, they obviously can't be good positioned. But a singe pice+king is enough to built a guillotine.
2014-03-03 18:39:48 Plantagenêt: When Crust was white and me, black, the rest was: 4.c10 b9x 5.a9 and I don't remember after...
2014-03-03 23:05:08 Plantagenêt: I think we can professionalize Copenhagen Hnefatafl and others tafl games as long as we put some special pieces for white and/or correct some rules.
2014-03-04 17:48:14 Plantagenêt: Do you think the immediate 2....h9 is playable after 1.h3 g2 2.c2?
2014-03-08 19:59:13 Plantagenêt: Was dachte Silje Bjerke ans Copenhagen Hnefatafl?
2014-03-14 07:28:26 Hagbard: Next test tournament: back to the tawlbwrdd. Remember, the king is captured from only 2 sides and wins on the edge. In this variant, white has maximum advantage of the initial set up with 8 open lines uncovered by black.
2014-03-22 08:37:30 Hagbard: To the many new tafl players: please consider to send your email address to our World Tafl Federation chairman Tim Millar on anomalocharis AT hotmail DOT com , so that we have some other contact information than just an anonymous alias here.
2014-04-14 08:27:01 Hagbard: Next test tournament: We should pay our respect to R. C. Bell also, author of "Board and Table Games from Many Civilisations", and test his set up for the tawlbwrdd. Same rules as before, but in Bell's set up it might be slightly easier to capture the king, as there are only 4 open lines uncovered by black.
2014-04-14 08:44:27 cyningstan: What's your opinion of the Lewis diamond layout? Mine is that it seems to give quite an exciting game. And I've lost nearly every game, so from my point of view it's balanced :-)
2014-04-14 08:58:06 Hagbard: As for Lewis diamond: statistically white seems to win more often. But even game variants with "measured balance" not close to 1, could be considered suitable variants, because they give a different and larger challenge to the "underrated" color. I'd suggest the limit could be balance -2 to +2.
2014-04-15 19:56:12 Watson: the layout of Hnefatafl edge 19x19 (Alea Evangelii)looks cool.
2014-04-16 19:11:29 Watson: is it easier for white to win?
2014-04-16 19:13:24 Hagbard: We've not found out yet.
2014-04-18 02:30:14 Fairland: One of these days, my Scottish heritage demands I turn Ard-Ri into a layeable game. Any theorists out there with suggestions?
2014-04-18 08:46:51 Cyningstan: Fairland, I've given this a try already, but it needs a lot more play-testing. Basically it's a 13-piece game, king wins at edge, but I've had to make the king weaponless for balance. For details, Google "reconstructing the Scottish game" "Cyningstan" (quotes and all) and you should find your way to the article I wrote last October.
2014-04-18 15:41:02 Fairland: Thanks alot, Cyningstan.
2014-04-20 20:01:26 Schachus: how long do those tournaments invite to join?
2014-04-21 00:47:58 Hagbard: Usually ten days.
2014-04-21 08:43:42 Schachus: Ok, thanks
2014-04-25 18:00:14 Schachus: I have a question concering my game against AreVidar. I'm black and he is nearly encircled, but he has edge contact on a3. If I first put something on c1, I'm able to capure on a3, but that doesn't really change much, except that his king then appears on a3 instead of a normal piece(eventualy I will do this, if no other progress is possible anymore).He has arranged his pieces in 2 towers, so I'm not sure I can make enough progress to force him giving up the edge square. I believe this is going to have to be a win for me, despite not having finished the encirlement, do I have to wait for him to repeat 3 times? Interestingly a warning of threefold repetition already showed up, despite I'm not at all able to see that repetition(since he lost his last piece he didn't repeat, before that he had a piece more, does that still count?).
2014-04-25 19:53:15 Hagbard: This does not look too good for white. Though I suppose it's not fair to give the advice, it's possible to close in one tower and after that force white to loosen up the other position. As for repetition warnings, the software is not quite perfect there. The warnings mean that white could have done the third repetition but didn't. If white does the third one, he looses automatically.
2014-04-25 19:54:01 Schachus: Yeah, by now I do think I can win
2014-04-25 19:54:19 Schachus: without the repetition rule
2014-04-26 03:02:03 Bruno Cicone: SUMITA TO AQUI
2014-05-16 03:46:41 altti: could you make the game archives searchable by parameters such as variant and player(s). such as; all copenhagen games played by nath as black. or even all games played by nath vs. hagbard. I would find it less tedious to study a players strengths and weaknesses.
2014-05-16 08:30:50 Hagbard: Good idea. Alas the motherboard of my computer which I used for development, burnt off a week ago. Now I use an old spare computer, which is suited only for the most basic maintenance. When I find a proper, new computer, I'll take this up.
2014-05-20 22:18:07 Hagbard: Rene Gralla sent a newspaper article from the Flensborg Avis about the Tromsø tournament 2014: see below on this page.
2014-05-21 20:06:28 Fairland: Had a hnefatafl tournament with my Humanities students for 2014. I do it every year. This year the kids really grew into the game and showed great improvement even in such a small amount of time!
2014-05-23 08:11:45 Tyr Linden: Just discovered this from one of the brothers from the Odin's Children FB group (thanks Gary Briggs!)and I must say this AWESOME!!
2014-05-26 13:50:51 Hagbard: Next test tournament: tawlbwrdd with the classic T-setup. Same rules as before, and also in this setup only four lines are open and uncovered by black.
2014-05-27 15:35:06 Schachus: this feels like an improved version for black... since black is already clearly winning in the bell setup(just look at the games of altti, me and nath with black, apart from the one that was lost in 4 moves), it seams useless to me to make another test tournament.
2014-05-29 00:11:17 nath: I really doubt that this change much. The skill at 11x11 lies in developing pieces. If your are able to develop them it doesn't really matter to which file. But in general Schachus is right. With this setup black has 4 empty files like before, but less weakness at to highly exposed pieces.
2014-05-29 09:25:41 Hagbard: Schachus and Nath, your theories sound reasonable; but this particular rules variant has not been tested before.
2014-06-01 13:03:21 Hagbard: The tawlbwrdd Bell test tournament completed with a new winner for a tournament: Schachus
2014-06-26 12:50:54 crust: Hagbard, are you still planning to make the games database searchable by player and by rule-set? It now takes a long time to load, maybe it should also be split up into separate sections for each year
2014-06-28 14:42:50 Hagbard: New utility "Search in all archive" added.
2014-06-28 16:17:46 Watson: thanks!
2014-06-28 23:37:26 nath: The old one is replaced, but it's definitely a big improvement - thank you! I wrote you an e-mail about a database some time ago - maybe we can also proceed in this matter.
2014-06-28 23:40:42 nath: It would be also good to change the ruleset. The one marked as default is already Copenhagen Hnefatafl, but if you don't click on 'more variants' you can only choose 'old' Hnefatafl. Since it's not considered as interesting, we should change that.
2014-06-29 00:28:52 Hagbard: If you don't fill out anything in the "Search all archive", you'll get the full list like before. Yeah, let's find out something about the database. The "old" Hnefatafl 11x11 is the default especially for new players. The rules are a bit simpler and shorter to explain than the Copenhagen variant. Besides, the old Hnefatafl 11x11 is also used in wide circles in USA and Russia.
2014-06-29 00:52:59 crust: Thanks hagbard, that is a huge improvement to the games archive!
2014-06-29 09:32:40 Hagbard: New test tournament: the last of the Tawlbwrdd setups. Again 8 open lines uncovered by black.
2014-06-29 09:48:25 Hagbard: Chess Olympiad Tromsø 2014, the world's fourth largest sporting event, begins in 33 days. See more here: chess24.com/en/olympiad2014
2014-06-29 12:43:17 crust: Tawlbwrdd: armed king captured on 2 sides, wins on edge?
2014-06-29 13:00:47 Hagbard: Right.
2014-06-29 13:15:48 crust: Ok thanks, I will be careful not to let my king get skalked!
2014-07-01 19:49:00 nath: If you want a variant for new players choose Fetlar Hnefatafl. Fetlar Hnefatafl isn't more complicated than 'old' Hnefatafl. In fact you need one rule less (capture king at the corner). The main problem I got with that rules is the unintuitive minimum kill rule. I claim 'old' Hnefatafl is just a draw from the beginning. I can understand that you want a simple ruleset for beginners. But most guys that I encouraged to play here, told me that they are confused (4 times so far). Copenhagen Hnefatafl is the most stable variant we got so far, hence I would suggest to at least mention it at the first page. Maybe it's the best way to show Copenhagen Hnefatafl also below so you can choose already without showing all variants. Different defaults are very confusing.
2014-07-01 20:23:22 Hagbard: Could be. Are there other opinions/support on this?
2014-07-02 02:59:13 vonraider: With my limited experience,I find Copenhagen Hnefatafl is definitely the best rule set I have played so far.
2014-07-02 09:14:17 crust: I'm with Nath on this one. I've always thought fetlar is simpler than "old hnefatafl" (where the board edge is hostile to the king only, but not to other warriors). The different defaults on different pages are a little confusing. Personally I only really want to play Copenhagen as a challenge, though I'll play fetlar or even old hnefatafl to be sociable, and other variants for historical interest. Do you have to have a default at all? Why not just offer a list, with Fetlar and Copenhagen at the top and a side note briefly describing them? (e.g. "as played at the World Championships", "popular with experienced players")
2014-07-02 09:15:22 crust: ...and I'm with vonraider too ;)
2014-07-02 13:29:40 altti: I prefer saami tablut. its simple, thus easy for a beginner to learn and still quite challenging as the board is only 9x9. also it has been found to be balanced. my second pick is Copenhagen for the options it gives the players (shield wall and edge fort).
2014-07-04 10:03:54 Adam: Sounds like an unofficial vote is in progress. I agree with Crust, Nath and Vonraider. tablut, now that it works so well is also a good place for beginners to start. Especially children, though i regularly teach 11x11 to six year olds without any problems.
2014-07-05 03:52:55 altti: to be fair six year olds learn much quicker than older folk. they have a capability to examine all avenues. as we get older we begin to stick to established patterns, and this can be a disadvantage.
2014-07-05 20:17:58 Hagbard: New defaults: Fetlar & Copenhagen. Adam Bartley kindly drew a new set of game pieces for the Copenhagen game, 3D now.
2014-07-06 13:20:12 cyningstan: Oops, serves me right for taking a break - I'd have also put in a vote for (Saami) tablut as being authentic, relatively simple, and balanced. But tablut has its own page on here anyway. Quick question: You say Lewis cross is the last of the tawlbwrdd tests; will you not be trying tawlbwrdd 9x9 at any point? Old Welsh laws mentioned a 25-piece game, which isn't too dissimilar to Saami tablut and therefore might play well.
2014-07-06 14:27:30 Hagbard: I didn't know there was a tawlbwrdd 9x9; it would be Saami without a throne?
2014-07-06 23:32:15 Schachus: I have to say, the new design confuses me(black and white look too similar). Is there an option to get the old design back?
2014-07-07 06:25:49 cyningstan: Basically yes, Hagbard. If the lack of throne makes little difference to the balance, then it would make it a lovely, simple and elegant version to teach beginners. And reasonably authentic too.
2014-07-08 09:56:36 Schachus: I dont know how, but the old design seems to be back, thanks
2014-07-09 11:46:54 crust: Congratulations to Plantagenet, Altti and Duhawk93 on jointly winning the Tawlbwrdd Diamond tournament. Also to Helfrich who was only 1/2 a point behind them
2014-07-10 15:22:29 crust: The English National Hnefatafl Championship 2014 will take place at Sutton Hoo Suffolk, UK) on Sunday 10th August, starting at 10:30 a.m. Fetlar rule-set. The day before will be practice, and other saxon/viking games and activities will be going on the whole weekend. I'll be there to teach anyone who needs it!
2014-07-11 13:10:07 Hagbard: No Fetlar date yet, and they use to publish the date already in June.
2014-07-11 13:13:01 Hagbard: Tromsø will be 7th August, and our internet tournament will be in September, I presume.
2014-07-12 04:01:52 altti: what rule set will we be playing in our tournament
2014-07-12 09:26:23 Hagbard: I believe it will be the Copenhagen.
2014-07-13 12:54:38 crust: Fetlar World Quickplay Hnefatafl Championship is cancelled again, owing to fluctuating health of the organizer. Best wishes to Peter Kelly for better health in the near future.
2014-07-13 14:07:17 Hagbard: So Tromsø with participants from the whole world would sort of be the World Championship of this year?
2014-07-13 19:27:11 crust: It's probably the only tournament that comes close to being that.
2014-07-15 13:56:42 crust: Anyone know what rule set they will be using in Tromso?
2014-07-16 06:45:38 cyningstan: As of late last year, they hadn't decided between Fetlar and Copenhagen. I haven't heard anything since.
2014-07-18 03:15:50 crust: Thanks, cyningstan! I've sent you some comments on your copenhagen leaflet, I hope you got them :)
2014-07-18 09:26:45 cyningstan: Thanks crust, I've got them and made the corrections to the Copenhagen leaflet now.
2014-07-19 23:47:55 crust: To Hagbard: I strongly urge that in future tournaments, games that end in timeouts are counted for points in the same way as games that end normally. The current system is open to abuse, and it's possible it has already been abused. For instance, (under the present system) if you know you're losing a tournament game, it would benefit you to let the game end in time-out, so that your opponent doesn't get a point out of it. This would increase your own chance of winning the tournament. An unscrupulous player might be tempted to just stop playing, whenever he or she is losing, thus depriving their opponents of points they have earned. What do you think?
2014-07-20 09:57:52 Hagbard: Could be a point there. Counting altered.
2014-07-20 14:42:07 crust: good! Thanks Hagbard.
2014-07-22 17:12:00 Hagbard: A note about the coming internet championship tournament was put on the large forum.
2014-07-28 21:23:54 HELFRICH: Hello. Can you clarify which board variation/rules set will be used for the championship tourney on this site? Thanks.
2014-07-28 22:59:05 Hagbard: If general agreement, Copenhagen Hnefatafl 11x11.
2014-07-28 23:29:46 crust: Copenhagen please!
2014-07-29 14:51:28 vonraider: Copenhagen
2014-07-29 15:23:23 HELFRICH: I am relatively new here at this site and I find Copenhagen to have the best balance. Copenhagen please.
2014-07-29 17:28:24 Hagbard: While waiting for the grand tournament, a test tournament of the last of the 11x11 variants: Sea battle tafl cross 11x11. *Unarmed* king, captured from 4 sides, wins on edge.
2014-07-31 13:08:49 test1: test
2014-07-31 16:16:37 test1: Joins Championship Tournament 2014
2014-07-31 16:43:20 duruk: Joins Championship Tournament 2014
2014-07-31 17:02:34 test1: Joins Championship Tournament 2014
2014-07-31 17:18:11 ragnar76: Joins Championship Tournament 2014
2014-07-31 19:08:32 fairland: Joins Championship Tournament 2014
2014-07-31 19:37:17 altti: Joins Championship Tournament 2014
2014-07-31 19:51:09 Patterson: Joins Championship Tournament 2014
2014-07-31 21:06:15 crust: Joins Championship Tournament 2014
2014-07-31 22:10:32 HELFRICH: Joins Championship Tournament 2014
2014-07-31 23:25:27 duruk: Joins Championship Tournament 2014
2014-07-31 23:25:41 AreVidar: Joins Championship Tournament 2014
2014-07-31 23:25:47 AreVidar: Joins Championship Tournament 2014
2014-08-01 02:32:15 vonraider: Joins Championship Tournament 2014
2014-08-01 08:17:45 crust: To Hagbard; I'm finding the new look copenhagen board REALLY confusing; specifically the "white" pieces are now dark, and the "black" pieces are light. Sorry, I appreciate that you and Adam have put a lot of effort into it... ...but any chance of another option?
2014-08-01 08:20:01 Hagbard: A mistake; must be an old file uploaded. I'll try to sort it out.
2014-08-01 08:37:02 Fairland: Joins Championship Tournament 2014
2014-08-01 08:46:36 crust: to Hagbard: great, thank you!
2014-08-01 08:50:44 duruk: Joins Championship Tournament 2014
2014-08-01 09:00:14 Hagbard: Championship participants signed up till now: duruk, ragnar76, fairland, altti, Patterson, crust, HELFRICH, Arevidar, vonraider. The tournament begins about September 1st.
2014-08-01 14:08:01 crust: Just a quick reminder: One week to go till English National Hnefatafl Championship Sunday 10th August 10:30 a.m. start. Venue, Sutton Hoo Saxon archaeological site, Woodbridge, Suffolk UK.
2014-08-01 17:43:51 Schachus: Joins Championship Tournament 2014
2014-08-01 17:45:14 Schachus: me too, I prefer the old design, it has stronger contrasts in my opinion.
2014-08-01 17:46:15 Schachus: ah, the old design is already back...!
2014-08-01 22:33:49 Plantagenêt: Joins Championship Tournament 2014
2014-08-02 00:29:20 duhawk93: Joins Championship Tournament 2014
2014-08-02 03:43:38 duruk: Joins Championship Tournament 2014
2014-08-02 03:46:40 duruk: hey there all.. sorry that I have been trying to join the CT over and over again. being quite new to the site, I've just seen this forum area (and the confirmation that I've already been registered to join the tourney) anyway have a nice weekend all :)
2014-08-02 04:06:03 duruk: also, I'm not sure if this is the right place or the right time but I would very much appreciate if it would be possible to browse through the past moves on the screen of a particular game.. playing multiple games becomes confusing real fast for me when I'm not able to see how the board did get to its present condition or what my last move (and therefore intention) was...
2014-08-02 04:12:11 duruk: Joins Championship Tournament 2014
2014-08-02 08:29:43 crust: duruk's suggestion is very good; I don't know how difficult it would be to
2014-08-02 08:31:40 crust: ...program? You can do it on dragonheelslair, there's a little back arrow under the board, so you can go back a move or several moves, which reminds you what the heck you were trying to do. Helpful in correspondence games when you have several going on at once
2014-08-02 08:38:13 Schachus: I always check my games list, where i can already so this, if I forgot the last moves. I agree it would be easier, if this was possible directlictly in the game, but it doesn't seem worth a big effort to me
2014-08-02 08:50:44 Hagbard: Did I mention that Adam Bartley's exhibition photos series was added to the gallery some time ago? As for reviewing ongoing games, there are ways already, but it can be made more user friendly without too much effort, I'll take a look.
2014-08-02 13:34:04 crust: I see "replay" buttons have appeared on games list. Great!! All we need now is a way to get from the replay to the game itself, when we're ready to make a move (withouy exiting and having to log in again)... Is that going to be possible?
2014-08-02 13:40:35 Hagbard: No problem: the replay opens its own window, so that the games list is undisturbed.
2014-08-02 16:18:22 crust: when you have looked at a replay, you have to press "exit" to get out of it, and then you have to log in again. It's a bit cumbersome. Or am I doing something wrong?
2014-08-02 16:41:14 Schachus: For me it works like Hagbard said: A new window/tab opens, so to get out of it, I can just close it and I'm still logged in. I really appreciate the replay buttons, thanks!
2014-08-02 19:09:42 HELFRICH: Congratulations and thanks for the recent changes to the site.
2014-08-02 20:17:40 crust: to Schachus and Hagbard: Oh yes I get it now, it opens a new tab. Instead of pressing "exit" I just close the new tab. Sorry, I'm a bit slow with this stuff ;)
2014-08-03 00:38:14 duruk: thank you for the implementation of easily accessible replays...
2014-08-03 12:08:40 Schachus: By the way, thanks a lot for the new filters in the archive(!), but it doesn't quite seem to count the number of games correclty.
2014-08-03 12:17:06 Hagbard: The number of games is exclusive of timeouted games.
2014-08-03 12:29:25 Schachus: Ah, I get the intention, but I think there is some kind of bug. For example, If I look at the games between Nath an me(copenhagen), there are 2 timeouted games out of 6 total games, but your count only gives 2(probably the newest 2 judging by the number of moves). Maybe it doesnt leave out timeouted games, but inststead stops counting at the first timeout!?
2014-08-03 13:44:51 Hagbard: It was a bug all right; corrected.
2014-08-03 16:15:07 crust: Joins Championship Tournament 2014
2014-08-03 19:55:01 nath: Joins Championship Tournament 2014
2014-08-04 18:45:27 Adam: Joins Championship Tournament 2014
2014-08-04 18:48:50 Adam: Joins Championship Tournament 2014
2014-08-05 23:27:53 Adam: Just took a look at the current board positions. Lots of great games going on, this really is a vibrant community of players. Should be a great tournament this year, don't forget to sign up people!
2014-08-07 16:54:16 HELFRICH: Hello! Have you yet determined if there are going to be groupings of players on just one conglomerate of everyone? How are the groupings, if used, going to be selected? Thanks for any clarifications. I saw discussion on the other forum but could not determine if a final decision had been made, or if it was still open for suggestions and discussion. Please advise, thanks!
2014-08-07 17:10:11 Hagbard: We don't know the number of players yet; until now it is 14. There'll probably be one preliminary round of smaller groups, and after that the final.
2014-08-07 17:29:40 HELFRICH: If two or more groups are used, how will they be distributed in the groups?
2014-08-07 17:31:35 Hagbard: Evenly, players of all ratings mixed.
2014-08-07 17:38:16 HELFRICH: Will it be random (hope not) or will ratings be used? If you are open to suggestions, I would offer for instance with 14 players, that the players ranked 1, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13 be in one group and the players ranked 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, 14 be in the second group. This would divy it up fairly and rankings could be used as of the time of the tournament start or by a specified date.
2014-08-07 17:40:44 HELFRICH: Also using a preset standard would remove any question of favored pairings or pairings used to any players advantage.
2014-08-07 18:02:09 Hagbard: 14-15 players could give room for 3 groups: ranked 1, 4, 7, 10, 13 and 2, 5, 8, 11, 14 and 3, 6, 9, 12, 15.
2014-08-07 18:14:27 crust: that sounds very sensible... should be a good tournament. I have little doubt that the world's best hnefatafl players are all right here.
2014-08-07 19:01:35 HELFRICH: I am counting 15 members who have indicated they are playing and I actually hope we get some more. I count: Nath, Duhawk93, Crust, Adam, Plantagenet, Schachus, Altti, Duruk, Fairland, vonraider, Patterson, ragnar76, AreVidar, HELFRICH, and test1 (assuming test1 is a real person).
2014-08-07 19:05:34 Hagbard: test1 was a test
2014-08-07 19:11:56 crust: what about Hagbard?
2014-08-07 19:14:57 Hagbard: Speaking of members: new players are strongly invited to send some contact information, at least an email address, to our World Tafl Federation chairman Tim Millar. Tim's email address is anomalocharis AT hotmail DOT com
2014-08-07 19:17:09 Hagbard: I'm afraid I may have to pass, this year
2014-08-07 20:44:58 crust: yes, so far we are little more than a list of names. We should have some discussion about where we want the World Tafl Federation to go. The Tromso hnefatafl tournament was today, I hope we will hear from Frank Prohl how it went.
2014-08-07 20:45:56 crust: To Hagbard: sorry to hear that you won't be playing :(
2014-08-08 09:45:45 crust: Joins Championship Tournament 2014
2014-08-08 11:43:44 Adam: Any chance of making the 'offer draw' button have an 'are you sure' response? Its easy to brush over it on a smart phone, then one has to hastily write 'oops!' in the chat window and hope the opponent is feeling charitable!
2014-08-08 12:23:04 Hagbard: The draw button is a flip-flop. Press it again, and it turns back to no offer.
2014-08-08 12:26:03 Hagbard: Of course - if the opponent already offered a draw, it's a problem, because then your click would be accepted as an agreement and end of game.
2014-08-08 15:29:29 Helfrich: Concur with the draw button condition as I have ACCIDENTALLY hit it on a couple of occasions.
2014-08-08 15:32:46 HELFRICH: Have any precautions been placed to prevent multiple entries in the tournament using different names?
2014-08-08 18:28:51 crust: OK folks I'm off to Suffolk for the hnefatafl tournament; I won't be able to do any moves till I get back. See you in a few days ;)
2014-08-08 20:49:01 Hagbard: Good luck with the Suffolk tournament!
2014-08-08 21:36:26 Patterson: Good luck at the tournament.
2014-08-09 01:18:00 vonraider: Good Luck!
2014-08-09 09:41:27 Unterwichtel: Joins Championship Tournament 2014
2014-08-09 15:14:54 Hagbard: @Helfrich: There are not multiple entries in the tournament, and it's prevented when possible.
2014-08-09 20:34:08 Plantagenêt: Does the Suffolk tournament use the Copenhagen rules?
2014-08-10 02:54:59 nath: Huge thanks to Hagbard for his improvements on this site! I looking forwards to your growing community playing here!
2014-08-11 00:10:08 crust: Thanks all! English National Championship was won by Tim Bullen, a player from Formby in norhern England - they have a hnefatafl club there! Runner-up was Pete Jennings (last year's winner). Rules were Fetlar this year, but will likely be Copenhagen next year.
2014-08-11 00:24:36 crust: There were several other very good players there, including Arthur who has just started playing here too
2014-08-11 00:29:58 crust: ...and apparently Altti, Duhawk93 and I have all jointly won the Lewis cross tournament, well done us.
2014-08-11 00:57:50 crust: to Hagbard: has there been a change of board colours? Fetlar appears to have a brown board now
2014-08-11 01:05:37 Hagbard: It's ochre; matches better the game piece colors.
2014-08-11 04:50:15 arthur: Joins Championship Tournament 2014
2014-08-11 04:50:51 arthur: Joins Championship Tournament 2014
2014-08-11 04:53:15 arthur: Joins Championship Tournament 2014
2014-08-11 09:29:06 ynof: I thought I joined the tournament, but there is no indication of that anywhere...is it still possible to join?
2014-08-11 09:35:07 Hagbard: Just press the "Join the Championship Tournament 2014" button; sign up continues through all August.
2014-08-11 09:45:18 Hagbard: - or if you mean the Sea Battle test tournament, to join required that one had already completed one tafl game of any variant.
2014-08-11 09:55:39 ynof: Joins Championship Tournament 2014
2014-08-11 10:32:05 ynof: Joins Championship Tournament 2014
2014-08-11 10:32:37 ynof: thanks!
2014-08-11 10:44:44 Watson: Joins Championship Tournament 2014
2014-08-11 10:45:37 Watson: Joins Championship Tournament 2014
2014-08-11 10:46:32 Watson: LOL
2014-08-11 10:47:28 Watson: What happened??
2014-08-11 12:12:36 ragnar76: Joins Championship Tournament 2014
2014-08-11 13:30:41 arthur: Joins Championship Tournament 2014
2014-08-11 13:54:14 Vercingetorix: My current opponent playing black has offered a draw but I am not getting or seeing any eay to accept. Can anyone help?
2014-08-11 13:57:55 Hagbard: Congratulations with the completed Sutton Hoo tournament! These are the first news from a tafl tournament 2014. Congratulations to Tim Bullen for the win, and welcome to Arthur to this site. As for the coming internet tournament, 18 players signed up till now: duruk, ragnar76, fairland, altti, Patterson, crust, HELFRICH, Arevidar, vonraider, Schachus, Plantagenêt, duhawk93, nath, Adam, Unterwichtel, arthur, ynof, Watson
2014-08-11 14:02:14 Hagbard: @Vercingetorix: Click the "Offer draw" button. When both players offer draw, it is draw.
2014-08-11 14:29:56 Vercingetorix: Thanks. It worked.
2014-08-11 17:05:43 Watson: dear Hagbard, I clicked the button by accident. Please don't count me in LOL
2014-08-11 17:09:10 Watson: anyway, I wish all the participants a fruitful experience ;)
2014-08-11 17:43:50 Hagbard: ok
2014-08-11 18:51:00 HELFRICH: Is it possible to withdraw before the start of the tournament? I am potentially facing a situation where I could have no internet access for 7-10 days.
2014-08-11 19:10:02 Hagbard: yes, it's possible. The groups are started halfway manually September 1st.
2014-08-11 19:33:43 Hagbard: Any tafl information from Tromsø?
2014-08-12 04:58:27 arthur: Joins Championship Tournament 2014
2014-08-12 07:21:22 ynof: is there any way of finding out if there is a tafl community or club in a certain city?
2014-08-12 12:47:29 altti: I prefer sharing the victory. I'm in good company. ☺
2014-08-12 13:39:21 crust: Joins Championship Tournament 2014
2014-08-12 14:38:37 Hagbard: If the tournament were to start today, I'd suggest: Preliminary round, 1 day average per move: group 1: nath, Plantagenêt, vonraider, ynof. group 2: duhawk93, crust, Unterwichtel, ragnar76. group 3: Adam, Schachus, fairland, arthur. group 4: altti, AreVidar, HELFRICH, Patterson, duruk. Final round, 2 days average per move: group 1: 2 winners from each of above groups, 8 in all. group 2: everybody else, 9 in all. (games already done in round 1 are not repeated, but the results from round 1 are used).
2014-08-12 16:45:24 AreVidar: Joins Championship Tournament 2014
2014-08-12 21:18:50 scottdbarber: Joins Championship Tournament 2014
2014-08-12 22:42:28 Hagbard: @scottdbarber: please complete one game of your choice
2014-08-13 12:09:42 normanfreak: hi, i'm waitin on the activation of my account...i'd love to play the tournament too
2014-08-13 12:35:48 Hagbard: @normanfreak: for the games, just log in with the alias ("normanfreak" or any other available) and a password, and you can immediately invite for games.
2014-08-13 13:28:31 Watson: ...hardcore?
2014-08-13 13:36:02 thegameterrorist: ok, logged in now...thank you. question about the tournament, are computers allowed ?
2014-08-13 13:36:43 thegameterrorist: because i'm writing an app for 11x11 and would love to test it vs humans
2014-08-13 13:43:13 Hagbard: @thegameterrorist: I would say the computer can be allowed; and I'd say, too, that it cannot win against humans! Other opinions on this?
2014-08-13 13:45:46 thegameterrorist: @hagbard: yes, i think hnefatafl is quite hard for computers (just as go is)...but i'd love to test my programm...i'll create a different account for it if that's ok
2014-08-13 13:49:41 thegameterrorist: Joins Championship Tournament 2014
2014-08-13 14:00:29 Hagbard: A different account for the computer is ok
2014-08-13 14:04:15 Hagbard: As for the computer program, notice that the tournament rules are Copenhagen, with shieldwall capture, edge win fort, eternal repeating forbidden etc.
2014-08-13 14:04:33 Watson: hi, is it true that the Copenhagen rules are preferred (to avoid draw forts)?
2014-08-13 14:06:58 thegameterrorist: yeah, about the rules...i noticed. let's see if i can adept my program quickly to the new rules. btw, is there a bug in the online version here ? i thought capturing the king on the sideline is not possible ???
2014-08-13 14:11:44 Hagbard: @thegameterrorist: the online computer opponent on this site was written a long time ago, and in that old version the king can be captured on the sideline
2014-08-13 14:14:54 thegameterrorist: ok, i see. maybe i'll first adempt my program to use those rules and test it against it. also playing white it's pretty easy to beat. i don't think it should be included for the rating
2014-08-13 14:16:24 Hagbard: @Watson: looks like experienced players here more often prefer the Copenhagen rules, without draw forts; but for new players the Fetlar rules are simpler and still almost the same
2014-08-13 14:49:43 crust: English National Championships going over to Copenhagen rules next year, they really add a lot for experienced players, but Fetlar still a good game and a good starting point for beginners. Might keep fetlar going for junior championships
2014-08-13 14:53:53 crust: I'd love to try against thegameterrorist's computer, but maybe not as part of the championship tournament?
2014-08-13 16:04:53 Watson: I see...thanks!
2014-08-13 17:50:05 HELFRICH: Computer as a player is intriguing, however I would prefer the tournament to be played with the human factor only. Computer as a player on this site is OK and i suspect there is nothing we can do to stop the guy from using the computer for his own use and moves. It is the kind of thing that ruins a site like this.
2014-08-13 21:02:31 Plantagenêt: The problem is that white can make a draw in only two moves by creating a fort (with Fetlar rules).
2014-08-13 21:51:41 Hagbard: No news from Tromsø?
2014-08-14 10:32:34 thegameterrorist: @HELFRICH: no worries. i will not use it for my own games. If it enters (and it doesn't seem like it right now; because it's working with different rules and is far from ready) it will be using a different account which will be marked as PC or engine or whatever
2014-08-14 13:27:06 Hagbard: New in gallery: photos from the English Championship. Stern vikings!
2014-08-14 19:39:20 crust: "stern" vikings are the ones who always sit at the back of the boat lol
2014-08-16 12:12:33 Hagbard: Notice: the tournament's group 2 also have their own final.
2014-08-17 01:04:03 docbullen: Joins Championship Tournament 2014
2014-08-17 08:51:56 Hagbard: If the tournament were to start today, I'd suggest: Preliminary round, 1 day average per move: group 1: nath, Plantagenêt, vonraider, fairland, arthur. group 2: duhawk93, crust, HELFRICH, thegameterrorist, Patterson. group 3: Adam, Schachus, ynof, ragnar76, scottdbarber. group 4: altti, AreVidar, Unterwichtel, duruk, docbullen. Final round, 2 days average per move: group 1: 2 winners from each of above groups, 8 in all. group 2: everybody else, 12 in all. (Games already done in round 1 are not repeated, but the results from round 1 are used. Notice, the tournament's group 2 also have their own final).
2014-08-17 19:39:35 crust: so everyone plays 8 matches each in the preliminary round, then the best scorers from that play 14 matches each in the final round, but the lower scorers play 22 matches in the final round? That seems unbalanced, if I've understood it correctly. Also, it's a LOT of matches
2014-08-17 19:50:06 Hagbard: Same matches are not repeated; so second round is 12 matches for group 1, and 18 matches for group 2.
2014-08-17 20:12:44 Hagbard: An alternative, 3 groups: group 1: nath, altti, Schachus, HELFRICH, fairland, duruk. group 2: duhawk93, Plantagenêt, AreVidar, ynof, thegameterrorist, arthur, scottdbarber. group 3: Adam, crust, vonraider, Unterwichtel, ragnar76, Patterson, docbullen. Final round, 2 days average per move: group 1: 2 winners from each of above groups, 6 in all. divided by rating: group 2: half of everybody else, 7 in all. group 3: half of everybody else, 7 in all. (games already done in round 1 are not repeated, but the results from round 1 are used).
2014-08-18 19:22:54 Schachus: test
2014-08-18 19:28:35 Schachus: wtf? I just made a long post, after the test and again, it didnt work
2014-08-18 19:30:56 Schachus: Basically, I was saying, that group 1 is too strong in your proposals and the last one too weak. You should alternate the dirction of putting the stronger players, like this:
2014-08-18 19:32:55 Hagbard: If the text contains "h t t p" (without spaces), the text cannot pass.
2014-08-18 19:33:30 Schachus: gr1:1,8,9,16... gr2:2,7,10,15... gr3:3,6,11,14... gr4:4,5,12,13... or with 3 groups: gr1:1,6,7,12,13,18... gr2:2,5,8,11,14,17... gr3:3,4,9,10,15,16... (there are even better soloutions, see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thue%E2%80%93Morse_sequence)
2014-08-18 19:33:50 Schachus: ah, that was it, I was posting a link
2014-08-18 20:13:15 Hagbard: Very interesting! If the Thue–Morse sequence determines the direction, it is down, up, up, down, up, down, down, up, etc. The grand, yearly internet championship tournament serves three purposes, I can think of: 1) Find the strongest player of this year, the champion. 2) The final round is a great opportunity for everybody to meet their equals, opponents of similar strength. 3) The game and the rules are thoroughly tested, and new strategic subtleties are often discovered. There's room for more players, and all participants have a tournament result in the end: a score of points and a position. With 4 initial groups again, with the Thue–Morse sequence it would go: Preliminary round, 1 day average per move: group 1: nath, AreVidar, docbullen, fairland, scottdbarber, unknown1. group 2: duhawk93, Schachus, Unterwichtel, ynof, Patterson, unknown2. group 3: Adam, crust, HELFRICH, thegameterrorist, arthur, unknown3. group 4: altti, Plantagenêt, vonraider, ragnar76, duruk, unknown4. Final round, 2 days average per move: group 1: 2 winners from each of above groups, 8 in all. Two more final groups divided by rating: group 2: 8 players. group 3: 8 players. (games already done in round 1 are not repeated, but the results from round 1 are used).
2014-08-18 23:57:56 crust: ok, my head hurts now from looking up the Thue-Morse sequence. Hagbard, your care and diligence in setting up this tournament is much appreciated
2014-08-19 10:52:37 crust: World Tafl Federation now has a facebook page; if you feel so inclined, swing by some time. Also, please contribute; anything to do with tafl games of course, but especially anything on tournaments, clubs and societies. Thanks!
2014-08-19 16:01:06 crust: Joins Championship Tournament 2014
2014-08-19 19:30:57 Plantagenêt: But as there's a World Tafl Federation's facebook page, I would like to know if somebody has written a page about the theory of openings?
2014-08-19 22:26:25 Adam: This community is nothing if not thorough!
2014-08-20 11:42:10 crust: Joins Championship Tournament 2014
2014-08-20 17:23:09 Adam: regarding Crusts earlier post 2014-07-19 23:47:55 about timeout games counting as points in tournament games being open to abuse, which is now implemented. First, very good point. Secondly, now that it is implemented, it would be good to have it pointed out in the tournament rules. This may already be the case of course...
2014-08-20 21:22:24 Hagbard: The timeout games were included in the results of all championship tournaments. It's only the small summary lines under the diagrams, which for a period did not.
2014-08-21 00:26:19 crust: Joins Championship Tournament 2014
2014-08-21 14:12:35 Unterwichtel: Joins Championship Tournament 2014
2014-08-21 20:30:46 HELFRICH: Thue–Morse sequence. I looked it up on wikipedia and if anyone can translate this techno-babble into an understandable example it would be greatly appreciated.
2014-08-21 21:07:54 HELFRICH: Thue–Morse sequence. Can someone provide an example using numerical rankings instead of names such as in a four group 16 player allocation: group 1 is: 1 vs 16; 5 vs 12; etc. Thanks. Trying to understand this.
2014-08-22 02:31:07 fairland: Thanks for the change in first round competitors! Now I will be killed instead of slaughtered.
2014-08-22 02:31:53 fairland: That wasn't sarcasm, so you know. I feel like that system makes for a much more evenly matched grouping.
2014-08-22 07:38:08 Hagbard: The idea is simple really: If Ann divorces Bob and they split their belongings, the simplest way is Ann chooses first, then Bob, Ann, Bob etc. (AB AB...). But that is unfair, Ann every time gets the most valuable thing. So better, first Ann chooses first, next Bob chooses first and so on (ABBA ABBA...). But also here Ann starts in every group and gets more good things than Bob, so it's more fair that Ann starts first group, Bob second group etc. (ABBABAAB ABBABAAB...) Same argument, a little bit too good for Ann, more fair that Ann starts first group and Bob starts second group: ABBABAAB BAABABBA and so on with longer and longer strings. Same goes for allocation of players. The allocation of 16 players is group 1: 1, 8, 12, 13 group 2: 2, 7, 11, 14 group 3: 3, 6, 10, 15 group 4: 4, 5, 9, 16
2014-08-22 14:29:36 HELFRICH: Thanks for the clarification, although I could have done without the sarcasm/divorce.
2014-08-22 15:03:56 Hagbard: No sarcasm intended.
2014-08-22 15:50:47 HELFRICH: Thanks again. I was only seeking clarification and the numerical sequence provided satisfied completely.
2014-08-22 17:08:58 test3: Joins Championship Tournament 2014
2014-08-22 18:33:19 altti: ABBA!
2014-08-23 17:19:58 Fairland: Thanks for the clarification, Hagbard! I am terrible with numbers, so a situational explanation really set it out clearly for me.
2014-08-23 17:56:17 crust: Me too. Thanks Hagbard. Though very sorry to hear of Bob and Ann's divorce. ;)
2014-08-23 21:41:50 Adam: Very clear explanation. Waterloo will never be the same again.
2014-08-23 22:20:17 Hagbard: :)
2014-08-24 07:33:04 Hagbard: Still room for more players in the championship tournament. Final date for signing up is August 31st. The games begin September 1st.
2014-08-24 17:47:06 Hagbard: Large Viking exhibition in Berlin September 10th to January 4th!
2014-08-25 16:50:06 Hagbard: Good news: Tim Millar (crust) has accepted to be the umpire of the championship tournament. For Millar's games, I'm the umpire (Hagbard).
2014-08-26 11:17:07 Watson: Joins Championship Tournament 2014
2014-08-26 11:51:52 Watson: no, this is an error LOL
2014-08-26 16:15:23 DavBerd: Joins Championship Tournament 2014
2014-08-26 17:12:42 HELFRICH: What are the ethics/objections to having multiple entries in the tournament under different identification names?
2014-08-26 19:06:22 crust: to Helfrich: I think it should be strongly discouraged. Is anyone doing this?
2014-08-26 22:34:16 Adam: Yes that would really mess things up. Hopefully hagbard could use IP addresses to prevent that sort of thing? I'd prefer it even if everyone used just one name for playing on the site as it makes for more honest ratings. Which reminds me, any thoughts on separate ratings for each variant? Plus the overall?
2014-08-27 00:46:44 Calidesert: Joins Championship Tournament 2014
2014-08-27 02:16:40 vonraider: Anyone caught using multiple accounts should be tracked down and made to suffer the blood eagle! Or is that too much......
2014-08-27 04:15:05 altti: how does multiple accounts affect statistical results?
2014-08-27 06:56:55 Hagbard: @altti: multiple persons are counted as one in the statistics calculation.
2014-08-27 11:45:40 AreVidar: Joins Championship Tournament 2014
2014-08-27 14:12:32 AreVidar: Joins Championship Tournament 2014
2014-08-27 17:19:17 DavBerd: Joins Championship Tournament 2014
2014-08-27 22:25:41 Adam: So while it dosent affect site statistics, multiple accounts in the tournament would create problems. So I suggest we move from 'strongly discouraged' to 'illegal' And put it in the tournament rules. Anyway, who wants to play against themselves? I've tried it and I always spot my opponents plans.
2014-08-28 10:27:15 Hagbard: Signed up for the Hnefatafl internet championship tournament: duruk, ragnar76, fairland, altti, Patterson, crust, HELFRICH, Arevidar, vonraider, Schachus, Plantagenêt, duhawk93, nath, Adam, Unterwichtel, arthur, ynof, thegameterrorist, scottdbarber, docbullen, DavBerd, calidesert. Still 4 days left for signing up.
2014-08-29 16:29:09 dansuno: Joins Championship Tournament 2014
2014-08-29 16:29:29 dansuno: Joins Championship Tournament 2014
2014-08-29 16:29:47 dansuno: Joins Championship Tournament 2014
2014-08-29 21:57:49 taschenguger: Joins Championship Tournament 2014
2014-08-29 22:41:46 Noobchen: Joins Championship Tournament 2014
2014-08-31 00:50:34 Fraech: Joins Championship Tournament 2014
2014-08-31 00:51:39 Fraech: Joins Championship Tournament 2014
2014-08-31 00:52:51 Fraech: Joins Championship Tournament 2014
2014-08-31 08:13:44 Hagbard: Signed up for the Hnefatafl internet championship tournament: duruk, ragnar76, fairland, altti, Patterson, crust, HELFRICH, Arevidar, vonraider, Schachus, Plantagenêt, duhawk93, nath, Adam, Unterwichtel, arthur, ynof, thegameterrorist, scottdbarber, docbullen, DavBerd, calidesert, dansuno, taschenguger, Noobchen, Fraech. Still time to sign in; games begin tomorrow.
2014-08-31 08:22:41 Adam: The excitement is mounting! Good luck everyone, I hope everyone manages to play their games to the end.
2014-08-31 12:46:29 crust: Biggest world championship ever!! Have fun, and play nice, everyone; if you don't want to finish a match for whatever reason, it would be better to resign than just to abandon the game, out of respect and consideration for your opponent. Enjoy your games, and post a message here if you encounter a problem. Thanks to Aage for being such an excellent host. To arms!
2014-09-01 08:20:04 Hagbard: Let the games begin!
2014-09-01 11:49:05 Schachus: Just to be clear: 2 Players per group qualify? And their game amongst each other does NOT count in final, does it?
2014-09-01 12:01:54 Hagbard: 2 qualify, and their game amongst each other does count in final.
2014-09-01 12:06:26 Schachus: it does? So I should be careful against Adam...
2014-09-01 17:55:01 crust: dear hagbard, could we all have just a little more info on how this tournament will work? There's a bit of confusion.
2014-09-01 17:58:04 Hagbard: I wrote some more in the green square at top of the tournament page.
2014-09-01 18:04:04 crust: ah yes I see that now, sorry! ;)
2014-09-03 00:05:22 altti: congrats to crust and duhawk. great games!
2014-09-03 08:30:48 crust: thanks altti! (Sea battle tafl tournament is finished; Duhawk93 and I jointly won)
2014-09-03 22:27:26 HELFRICH: Hello. Regarding the tournament, I noticed three players have not as yet made their first move. Is there a way to contact them to alert them that the games are underway? Also, if they fail to play, how will matches against them be tallied?
2014-09-03 22:31:01 Hagbard: How about: "If, ten days from start of the tournament, a player has not done any move in any game, he is disqualified from the tournament." Even better, of course, if they can be contacted and alerted.
2014-09-03 22:36:12 Hagbard: Tim, is it ok if I add this ten-days sentence to the info?
2014-09-03 22:39:17 HELFRICH: Indeed, yes, but doesn't it require two moves by a player for a game to be initiated? The ten day rule you suggest could be redundant with the already established time/timeout limits. So what I suspect you are possibly saying is that players who do not play will be dropped as if they were never in the tournament?
2014-09-03 22:45:42 Hagbard: Tournament games are excepted from the usual two-moves initiation. Yes, that's right, I mean the player's games are not timed out, but removed altogether.
2014-09-03 23:01:41 crust: to hagbard; yes that's fine by me !
2014-09-03 23:32:39 altti: that would be fine if everybody was playing everyone else. how does it work if I lose two opportunities to gain/lose points in the first round when other players in other groupings have more opportunities at points.
2014-09-04 00:02:09 Hagbard: It is still 2 players from each group to proceed to the final. Fortunately the three players who have not yet turned up does not change much the balances of the groups.
2014-09-04 01:22:20 HELFRICH: The uneven number of players in groups allows the opportunity for more wins but also for more losses! This does not typically provide a problem for the Asgard Eight; but for those of us mere mortals in Midgard or Muspelheim it can make a difference, LOL.
2014-09-04 12:32:18 Schachus: I don't quite understand the answers you gave, but I think the point is that ONLY the games against your fellow qualifier from your group are counting in the final(they are not going to be played again). So scoring more points overall in the first round is nothing you could benefit from.
2014-09-04 13:03:25 Hagbard: Yes to both questions. But many preliminary results are transferred to one final or the other. 4 x 2 top players compete to be the champion (could be called the top eight final). But rest of the players also continue to one of two final groups, where they already met a few of the opponents before.
2014-09-04 14:18:59 HELFRICH: Regarding the Asgard EIGHT, could there be ties in games won, which could perhaps make it the Asgard NINE or even TEN? If not, what is the tie breaker formula? EXAMPLE: The top seeded player in the group wins all games played while the number two and three seeded players split their two games and both win all the rest of their games played.
2014-09-04 14:35:50 Hagbard: If no. 2 and 3 of a group get the same score, both can proceed. The umpire decides.
2014-09-04 18:35:41 Adam: Shouldn't a person not playing's games count as losses? Not just now but generally? If a game starts and a player doesn't move, they lose the game. Or would this complicate things even further? And as was pointed out the two move rule we use for regular games shouldn't apply for a signed up tournament.
2014-09-04 18:53:18 Hagbard: The normal game time out is a loss, and likewise the time out for an active tournament player. However, in the case of a tournament player who does not participate at all, then he would collect twelve losses and lose hundreds of rating points without ever touching the keyboard but once: when he pressed the button and signed in... It's a parallel to the non-tournament game, which is cancelled if each player doesn't do two moves within two days. It would of course be a lot simpler to just tell us that the sign up was a mistake, like Watson did...!
2014-09-04 20:37:40 crust: suggestion for next year; make it a little harder to sign up for tournament (or move the sign-up button) - I know I signed up about 5 times, 4 of them accidentally, because the sign-up button was more or less where I expected the "check your current games" button to be :)
2014-09-04 20:39:29 crust: It's possible in the cases of Davberd, Ynof and Arthur, that they didn't mean to sign up, and didn't realize that they had signed up
2014-09-04 20:48:25 Hagbard: Next year perhaps also a "do you really mean it?" button.
2014-09-04 20:51:34 HELFRICH: Interesting Tournament Discussion: I would suggest for next year that a minimum number of games be played before a person can enter the championship tournament. I've noticed that many new players disappear before reaching the 40 game mark. As a new player this year I was very much confounded by the game and almost quit several times due to frustration and lack of any real instruction on the game. It is a bit discouraging to be clobbered game after game. About at the 40 game mark I started to see things I had not seen before, etc. -- The point here being is that the newer less experienced players might benefit by having a new comers tournament (under 50 games and rating under 1450 or such). Just a suggestion to perhaps keep more new players active for a longer period of time.
2014-09-04 20:56:26 HELFRICH: Moving the button or adding an are you sure option is an excellent suggestion. It might also be a good idea to register an email address and real name with Hagbard. This way a person could get an email reminder and the Tournament winners could be celebrated by real name along with their Tafl persona.
2014-09-04 20:59:00 Hagbard: Your new comers tournament idea is certainly worth trying. The second phase of the current championship tournament will already be close to such an event, because in the second phase everybody will have opponents of nearly the same strength.
2014-09-05 02:43:54 HELFRICH: Actually a large number of the players who are likely to be in the next round of the second or third tier have played many games. Some in the hundreds. What I was suggesting was a true new comers tourney. This would allow newer players to get some games against others with closer skills. Hopefully, it would have the effect of keeping new players interested longer and give them a chance to develop into better players. I am trying to come up with ways to advance the game by keeping more players active for a longer stretch of time.
2014-09-05 07:51:30 Hagbard: Perhaps we should try one after this one: less than 50 games and less than 1450 rating.
2014-09-05 08:40:21 crust: HELFRICH has got some good ideas; we could do more to support and encourage beginners
2014-09-05 14:52:41 Schachus: looking at the current rating list, I ask myself: where did dufays go? He seems to have disappeared altogether.
2014-09-05 15:33:21 Hagbard: dufays is identical to Plantagenêt, the two aliases were just merged.
2014-09-05 16:08:42 HELFRICH: Thanks for the consideration of my suggestions. This is a great game and a superior site. Without this site I would know only one other person who plays the game. I hope the game popularity grows.
2014-09-05 22:06:23 Schachus: Ah, ok! And what is with test3? Is that a test-account or just a funny username?
2014-09-06 00:18:30 Hagbard: Well, test3 is Plantagenêt, experimental games.
2014-09-06 02:32:53 fairland: No wonder test 3 kept annihilating me! I thought it was that computer based program someone mentioned a month or so ago...
2014-09-06 02:32:54 fairland: No wonder test 3 kept annihilating me! I thought it was that computer based program someone mentioned a month or so ago...
2014-09-06 22:12:38 Adam: @Helfrich: a tournament for lower ranking is an interesting idea, providing it provides something more than the second round will provide. Perhaps a junior tournament is worth considering? However I feel our community is still in its early stages and would require more numbers to make these ideas really work properly. One thing did occur to me though; new players wanting strategy advice or feedback please feel free to create threads in the strategy forum. I feel sure other players will be generous with advice and insight at all levels. Watching replays of games between high ranking players is an excellent way of learning strategies.
2014-09-08 18:11:14 Hagbard: The Sea Stallion is in Berlin September 6th-14th! h t t p://w w w.vikingeskibsmuseet.dk/besoeg-museet/det-sker/havhingsten-indtager-berlin-6-14-september-2014/
2014-09-08 18:17:57 Hagbard: Danish Queen Margrethe II is in Berlin Tuesday and Wednesday, official visit, to open the exhibition "Die Wikinger": h t t p://politiken.dk/kultur/ECE2387379/dronningen-besoeger-vikinger-i-berlin/
2014-09-09 00:27:52 Schachus: @crust: in the position in the newest facebook comment, instead of the fork, white could have gone to e10 with the king, threatening immediate win at either a10 or b10 which cannot both be paried. This also explaint the move e11-e6 a little bit, it stops this threat at least.
2014-09-09 19:50:16 crust: to Schachus; yes I spotted that too! And so did Patterson it appears. It would have shortened the game considerably. But congratulations to Unterwichtel anyway, for a solid victory.
2014-09-09 20:38:47 Hagbard: "Der Seehengst" has taken Berlin: h t t p://w w w.sn.dk/roskilde/der-seehengst-har-indtaget-berlin/artikel/433445
2014-09-09 20:53:38 crust: By the way folks, there are daily updates and occasionally some game commentary (only on completed games of course) on the World Tafl Federation page (link below).
2014-09-10 23:13:38 crust: to hagbard: Rather mysteriously, Duruk and Patterson in group 1 have swapped places in the table, so have crust and Arevidar in group 2. I noticed this because I'm recording all the results and it has suddenly become complicated. Have you re-arranged them deliberately or is it a bug?
2014-09-10 23:51:56 Hagbard: No, I've not re-arranged; I cannot immediately explain why the order changed.
2014-09-11 00:07:39 crust: to hagbard. weird!
2014-09-11 10:47:38 Schachus: Davberd timed out now in some games. No result is shown, just "z". Does this mean, we dont get points for that game? That only makes sense, if he times out against everyone, otherwise you need to get a point for "time-win".
2014-09-11 10:54:28 Hagbard: No, you do get points for those games.
2014-09-11 17:48:29 HELFRICH: Regarding the timeout question. There ate two kinds. (1) where the player never makes the required number of moves; (2) where a near full game is played, and the player sees an ultimate loss, and just stops playing. In case (1) no exchange of points is reasonable; in case (2) the player is gaming the system and points SHOULD be exchanged. I currently have one timeout victory where I was assured of victory my next move; my opponent stopped playing. I have three other games where I am one or two forced moves from victory. In all those games my opponent has stopped playing or the timeout clock is about to kick in. Although at least the win will be registered the points should also be exchanged too.
2014-09-11 18:04:55 HELFRICH: With all respect, I hope the ruling on no points exchanged in situation two is reversed. Not continuing a game where a player is certain of the loss is poor gamesmanship and I hope not the kind of attitude the site wishes to embrace.
2014-09-11 18:37:00 Hagbard: Tournament points are certainly exchanged for each and every tournament game, whether time-outed or not, with the one exception of the alias ynof (fony backwards...) which never showed up. But I think that ynof is excused and merely hit the sign in-button by accident. As for *rating* points, they are calculated and given when at least four moves of the game was done.
2014-09-11 18:55:41 Hagbard: Keep up the good playing style, Helfrich, and you may have the "Asgård Nine" Valhalla in sight...
2014-09-11 19:12:52 HELFRICH: Thanks for the clarification on the points exchange, LOL. I can only hope to be in the Asgard round and not the Midgard round (although there is nothing wrong with Midgard!). After all, the Copenhagen Clobber Club needs someone to finish last!
2014-09-11 23:01:19 crust: the names are shifting around again in the tournament tables, especially in group 1. I keep having to make new charts to keep up. Damn tafl goblins!
2014-09-11 23:03:37 crust: the World Tafl Federation facebook page has just reached 50 "likes"; thank you everybody who has dropped by to have a look :)
2014-09-11 23:05:41 altti: in group three we only have 4 participants left. the other 3 were either timed out or just didn't start. how will this effect points scoring if there is a tie break at the end of the tourney?
2014-09-12 00:35:43 Schachus: Does not affect your scoring too much as far as I understood. 2 players will still go through(most likely you and Plantagenet, in my opinion) and the only results that are taken to the final are the ones between those 2. I don't think preliminary games count in case of tie in the final, and in case of tie in the preliminaries, it only matters if the tie is for #2, in which case both might go through, as I understood Hagbard(upon umpire decision)
2014-09-12 08:27:00 crust: Schachus is quite right. You're only trying to beat the others in your group, so if anything, being in a smaller group gives you a (very small) advantage over being in a larger group; you have more chance of being in the top two.
2014-09-12 15:58:40 HELFRICH: Can someone explain the timeout feature? Yesterday I had two games timeout in my favor at "10" but today I have two others well past "10"; currently at "10.9" and "10.5" .... sample follows: [*** Warning *** xxx used 10.9 days for ten moves (limit 10 days)]
2014-09-12 16:15:01 HELFRICH: The "10.9" just kicked over to "11" and a timeout win followed. So when is an "11" a "10" ??? LOL. Must be the new math or algorithms or something ;-]
2014-09-12 16:48:55 HELFRICH: The "10.4" kicked over to "10.5" and a timeout win ensued. Math can confuse me but it is usually the big numbers and long equations, LOL.
2014-09-12 22:00:39 Hagbard: Timeout is at 10. But not until player xxx also exceeds 1.5 days for his current move.
2014-09-12 22:37:17 HELFRICH: Thanks again for the clarification.
2014-09-14 11:36:29 crust: Hagbard, thanks for running this excellent tournament
2014-09-14 12:04:40 Hagbard: Very exciting to follow the games. High quality playing. And thanks for the game analyses on the facebook!
2014-09-14 20:12:06 crust: You're welcome! Apologies to anyone I haven't featured yet :) NO criticism is intended
2014-09-16 16:49:48 HELFRICH: Ahoy! The facebook site set up by crust is very much worth any player's time to review. In addition to the post game analysis provided by him and other experts, it has also developed into a sideshow of putting a face with the name of the player on this site. As a reasonably new player I appreciate his and others efforts to expand the knowledge of the game; and hope for a renaissance of this dark ages game!
2014-09-16 22:42:44 crust: Thanks, Helfrich! There may be a break in posting for a couple of days - I'm away on a job, probably with no internet access :(
2014-09-27 00:33:35 crust: just set up the giant outdoor hnefatafl set again; hopefully will be teaching and playing tomorrow :)
2014-09-27 07:07:45 cyningstan: I've been absent on here for a few weeks, but I'm very excited on seeing a 7x7 board appear in the Current Board Positions. Thanks to crust for highlighting it on Facebook!
2014-09-27 18:18:45 Hagbard: What about a "Fetlar 2" version = Fetlar plus the encirclement rule?
2014-09-27 18:28:32 Hagbard: What about, at October 1st, starting the first round 2 games of "Asgård"? That is those which are possible to start now: Schachus, Adam and Crust completed all their round 1 games and are certain to have qualified for the "Asgård".
2014-09-27 19:07:17 Schachus: Planagenet and Allti are safe in the next round as well, though their game is still running(and maybe also nath, though I'm not sure about the tiebreak rueles in the unlikely case he loses both remaining games). But somehow it would be nicer to start all games at the same time, wouldn't it? Maybe we are lucky and all is settled until oct 1st
2014-09-27 19:09:10 Schachus: sorry Plantagenêt and Altti for the typos in your names
2014-09-27 20:10:17 crust: personally I would rather wait until all preliminary games are finished, before anyone starts the next round. I'm not in so much of a hurry to get annihilated lol :) No it's just that I think it would be more companionable. I don't really see the need to change Fetlar rules - I think we should keep them as they are. Copenhagen rules are already the improved version of Fetlar.
2014-09-27 23:40:29 Hagbard: We'll wait and see then.
2014-09-28 17:14:26 Hagbard: @Schachus: Duhawk93 is also safe in the next round (Asgård), but has still games running. Notice that there'll also be a Midgård and an Udgård next round for all players not in Asgård.
2014-09-28 18:34:18 Schachus: What do these words mean?(Asgård,Midgård,Udgård). Is seems to be some kind of name for A-Final,B-Final,C-Final?
2014-09-28 18:59:18 Hagbard: That's right. The names are from Nordic mythology. Home of Aser, home of humans and home of jætter (giants).
2014-09-28 19:14:29 HELFRICH: I am delighted to see the use of the terminology: Asgård, Midgård, Udgård. Bringing the Norse lore into use on the site is excellent.
2014-09-28 19:15:25 Hagbard: - inspired from Helfrich, who started the talk of Asgard and Midgard.
2014-09-28 19:17:13 HELFRICH: Thanks for the credit nod ;-]
2014-09-30 22:19:47 altti: is there a glitch on the website? I never accepted any games (other than the tournament) but now I see that I have two games to play with Arevidar. I don't plan on playing them though. Sorry Arevidar.
2014-09-30 22:31:06 Hagbard: No glitch. Arevidar invited you for two games. If you don't want to accept, simply don't make any moves and the games will disappear again after two days.
2014-10-01 17:40:35 Hagbard: Well, it's still possible to start Round 2 games with Schachus, Adam, Crust, Duhawk93, Altti, Plantagenêt and Nath, just mentioning it... Helfrich and Docbullen are not clarified yet.
2014-10-02 17:33:02 Fairland: And how are the Midgard and Uttgard tournaments going to work?
2014-10-02 18:36:42 crust: hey Hagbard, I've ot a weird glitch where if I sign in with Internet Explorer, when i press "check my games" it automatically accepts the top invitation offered, and does not go to my games page as it should. I've accidentally accepted 3 games now, which I don't mind playing. Everything still works fine with Google Chrome
2014-10-02 19:26:31 Hagbard: @crust: It's put on the todo list. @Fairland: probably 8 players in each group Midgård and Udgård, and each group will be players of very similar strength, based on ratings and even more on the actual tournament results.
2014-10-03 04:43:04 Fairland: Thanks, Hagbard! I can't wait for that to start up.
2014-10-03 16:05:21 Schachus: maybe we could start next round, when all participants are safe, so after nath's games with helfrich and docbullen are finished (not wait for the other 4 games, if they take longer)?
2014-10-03 18:20:11 HELFRICH: The only reason I have not resigned is a fear that Nath will stop playing and a timeout will evolve (LOL). If for some reason Nath blows his other open game and I get bumped out of the Asgard group; so be it. (I consider docbullen to be a better player than I.) Therefore, I say let the next round begin. The only consideration in the prospective rules I would request a review upon is the time to make moves. Ten moves in ten days is plenty of time. Under the generous timeout rules in place now, only a person that elects to quit the game will gather a timeout.
2014-10-03 19:17:27 Hagbard: @Helfrich: For the planning of next year: how much time would you suggest for ten moves in the preliminary games?
2014-10-03 20:04:44 HELFRICH: It seems to me that the time restraints you currently have in place for the preliminary round are both fair and generous. I suggest you continue what you have in place for the preliminary round be used for the final round and perhaps for all tournament play.
2014-10-03 23:42:45 Hagbard: 10 moves per 10 days is used for all tournaments here. The 10 moves per 20 days is an exception only for the championship finals.
2014-10-04 00:47:22 HELFRICH: I'm 67 years old and was hoping to live to see the end of the tournament, LOL.
2014-10-04 12:03:57 altti: ready for the final ☺
2014-10-06 09:30:18 Hagbard: All players' positions are clarified for the final round, except only for Docbullen, Helfrich, Duruk and Patterson.
2014-10-06 09:46:07 Hagbard: In the theoretical case that Round 2 were started now, it could be all players except for Nath, Docbullen, Helfrich, Unterwichtel, Duruk and Patterson, who still are either doing Round 1 games or are dependent on Round 1 games.
2014-10-06 11:17:37 Hagbard: Certain for Asgård: altti, crust, Schachus, Plantagenêt, duhawk93, nath, Adam. Certain for Midgård: Fairland, AreVidar, vonraider, Unterwichtel, thegameterrorist, Noobchen, Fraech. Certain for Udgård: ragnar76, arthur, scottdbarber, DavBerd, Calidesert, dansuno, taschenguger.
2014-10-07 10:45:36 Hagbard: What about Round 2 starting in three days at the latest, that'll be Friday?
2014-10-07 13:17:22 altti: I concur
2014-10-07 14:03:11 Fairland: Yes! Let's get this going!
2014-10-07 17:09:27 Schachus: I'm in
2014-10-07 19:48:23 crust: ok. Unless anyone has strong objections, let's go ahead
2014-10-08 05:20:24 Dan: what even is this
2014-10-08 07:34:56 Hagbard: Nath, do you want to also start Round 2 Friday against six others, or do you prefer first to finish the last two Round 1 games?
2014-10-08 16:35:34 HELFRICH: Helfrich just resigned! On to round 2 please!
2014-10-08 17:30:08 HELFRICH: Nath is in the Asgård regardless of the outcome of the last game he is playing. So is docbullen. Helfrich is in limbo between Asgård and Midgård and I do not mind waiting to be placed pending the outcome of the final match in the group.
2014-10-08 17:54:16 Hagbard: Ok. Duruk and Patterson are also dependent on the last two games.
2014-10-08 19:19:57 nath: I don't mind one game more or less. The difficult thing is the state of Helfrich, but I wouldn't mind to continue at Friday.
2014-10-08 19:58:03 HELFRICH: I have no problem with waiting to be placed in the appropriate group, so do not hold up the tourney on my account.
2014-10-09 02:01:24 crust: anyone else getting weird techno music when they are on this page?
2014-10-09 11:35:28 Schachus: @crust: not me...
2014-10-09 12:01:37 crust: must be some strange glitch, or else my computer has been possessed by techno goblins
2014-10-09 12:21:24 Hagbard: @crust: me neither
2014-10-09 16:14:08 Adam: Crust, I'm guessing its your grandmaster horns picking up the techno music. Weirder and weirder. Good luck in round 2 folks. I know I'm going to need it!!
2014-10-10 13:00:04 Hagbard: And the Championship finals: Let the games begin!
2014-10-10 22:55:56 crust: what happened to Helfrich? I don't see him in any of the second round groups
2014-10-10 23:48:47 Hagbard: Helfrich is not secure yet. Docbullen could win and be number eight alone.
2014-10-11 01:22:19 crust: ok. makes sense.
2014-10-11 18:59:07 crust: Docbullen has now resigned, I presume that means Helfrich joins the Asgard group
2014-10-11 20:00:45 Hagbard: Helfrich entered Asgård.
2014-10-11 20:29:36 crust: I hope somebody checked him for weapons before they let him in...
2014-10-12 14:57:56 HELFRICH: Awesome to be sitting in Asgard with this assembly of experts and champions. I am humbled to be playing among the best in the world.
2014-10-14 15:28:43 Fairland: During the most recent board meeting at my school (Fairland High School, where I am a teacher) I proposed a hnefatafl club for the High School, to meet once a week after classes. The board approved this club and now my school has (most likely) the first school-recognized hnefatafl club in America!
2014-10-14 15:29:12 Fairland: Also, a true congratulations to Helfrich, you earned it.
2014-10-14 15:41:00 crust: Congratulations Fairland; that is wonderful news! I hope it will be the first of many, but it will always be the first :)
2014-10-15 10:12:15 Hagbard: New in gallery: photos from the Fornebei Herfolk's Viking Festival, UK.
2014-10-18 18:32:46 Schachus: Not much going on in Utgard... Anyway, how come that 4 players from group A went to Utgard and less sofrom the other groups?
2014-10-18 18:36:14 Schachus: Also, the battle for the Championship is really heating up at the moment
2014-10-18 19:28:30 Hagbard: Midgård/Udgård distributed from Round 1 results firstly, and secondly from rating, so that players are about the same strength, and the groups are of about the same size. A couple of Udgård players probably left, so in real there are only 7 players in Udgård at best, like in Midgård.
2014-10-24 00:17:17 Fairland: Fairland Schools Hnefatafl Club had its first meeting today. A president, voice president, and secretary were nominated. A name was decided upon, and sample games were played to familiarize students with the basic rules. Next week the club will decide on Fetlar or Copenhagen variant to play within the club.
2014-10-24 00:22:56 Hagbard: Congratulations with the club! You could start with Fetlar in any case for practise. Copenhagen can be seen as merely Fetlar plus some extensions.
2014-10-24 00:29:11 crust: Congrats Fairland (both you AND the school) - what name has the club decided on?
2014-10-24 00:46:25 Fairland: Thank you! Yes, we followed (unspoken) Fetlar guidelines today. The name the students decided on was "Fellowship of the Board."
2014-10-24 00:59:20 crust: I like it, it has a nice "Ring" to it.
2014-10-24 01:03:20 Fairland: Indeed. I truly love the name, but there are those who think "little hobbit".
2014-10-24 16:25:54 Schachus: @crust: Nice overview post on facebook :). I was going to say, you are forgetting you own chances, but then I saw you lost 2 games recently, so probably you are not so likely to still get first. I am expecting a battle between nath and plantagenet, but maybe I can try a bit myself. In any case, there is a lot to play for, especially since some people (including myself) play a lot more slowly if they consider their positions to be bad. That way, of course, there are not many early losses, but they might come later..
2014-10-24 18:39:41 crust: to Schachus, Thanks! Yes, I managed to lose two games in one day - never mind. We certainly have some very strong players this year, it's getting really interesting. Good luck, and all the best
2014-10-25 11:22:50 crust: wow - the time-out tsunami has finally hit Udgard!
2014-10-29 11:56:00 crust: to Hagbard; slight problem found with Archive: if you search for games of Ashton Tablut 9x9 for instance, the replay function doesn't work properly as it seems to be trying to replay the moves on an 11x11 board. Just thought it worth mentioning!
2014-10-30 08:28:34 Hagbard: Thanks, fixed
2014-10-31 20:50:20 Schachus: My time management was really bad. Let's see how I can cope with all the timeout warnungs at a time...
2014-11-02 13:54:39 crust: to Nath: Hope all is well with you, I was sorry to see you time-out. All the best
2014-11-02 19:08:11 Schachus: yes, I was surprised about that timeout, too. I saw he was close to timout yesterday evening and send him an email to warn him, but it seems it was too late.
2014-11-07 20:12:31 Hagbard: The Docbullen/Plantagenêt final game ends up in an interesting "draw fort" position with the king isolated and locked up at one side of the board and rest of the defenders forming a large fort at the opposite side of the board. In Fetlar this position would've been a draw. In the Copenhagen variant, however, this position is a black win, according to rule 10b: "Draw forts are not allowed: If the defenders repeat their board position three times while no piece was captured, the attackers win." A more straightforward wording of rule 10b could've been "If the attackers have contained the defenders, so that it's impossible for the king to neither reach any corner nor form any edge win fort, then the attackers win." The repetitions version of the rule is, however, simpler to detect for the computer, and it's inevitable that when the defenders are contained, they will sooner or later repeat their board position and violate rule 10b.
2014-11-07 20:24:46 Adam: The repetition rule is also essential for avoiding perpetual checking situations of course.
2014-11-07 20:32:46 Adam: mind you, with that rule, the game was over at move 37 when there was no longer any hope of white getting outside the black wall to reduce blacks numbers. Its a tricky one. One could argue that immobilizing the king in an impregnable edge prison is game over. But there is that hope that white could take all the other men, and ultimately break into the prison to free the king. As long as that possibility remains, white should be allowed to play one.
2014-11-08 11:07:41 Schachus: crust, why did you stop analysing games on the facebook page? Would be interesting, now that some of the real top games are finishing.
2014-11-08 13:25:39 crust: to schachus: Yes, good idea.
2014-11-08 20:56:47 Nath: I wasn't at home the weekend. I'm very busy currently. I have a lot of work. I didn't spend to much time in the games this championship. But I'm really happy we have top level games finishing now.
2014-11-08 20:58:13 Nath: I hope we can also find reasons afterward to continue playing against each other. It's enjoyable to play against strong players for me.
2014-11-11 00:36:07 crust: to Hagbard: I find if I offer a pair of games against a named opponent, the computer actually starts four games instead of two.
2014-11-11 06:38:03 Hagbard: ? - I'll look into it
2014-11-11 08:32:11 crust: actually, it's probably my fault :) I didn't also uncheck the "open invitation" box when I checked the box next to the player's name. Sorry about that!
2014-11-11 08:38:11 Hagbard: Glad to hear that!
2014-11-11 08:44:44 crust: problem is located between keyboard and chair haha
2014-11-11 08:56:07 Hagbard: lol
2014-11-15 11:22:58 Hagbard: 100,000 people have now visited the Viking exhibition in Berlin: h t t p://w w w.sn.dk/roskilde/vikinger-fra-roskilde-er-stadig-i-berlin/artikel/448593
2014-11-18 17:06:59 Schachus: no updates on facebook?
2014-11-18 23:18:55 crust: to Schachus: been busy, that's all!
2014-11-19 09:20:59 Schachus: Ok :)
2014-11-19 10:15:42 Hagbard: Calidesert and duruk are champions of Udgård.
2014-11-19 20:25:24 crust: Congratulations to both! And to Patterson who was only one point behind them.
2014-11-20 00:14:33 altti: I think I have an edge fort vs helfrich but the game continues?
2014-11-20 00:16:40 altti: ah now it recognized it. I guess it must be unassailable to constitute edge fort.
2014-11-20 00:49:07 Hagbard: right
2014-11-26 19:58:47 Roderich: How about posting the tournament games on YouTube? I've found some older games there.
2014-11-27 00:18:23 crust: to Roderich! Hello, great to see you here again!
2014-11-27 07:10:53 Hagbard: This year a fifth Viking ring fortress was discovered in Denmark. Behind all of them - Harald Bluetooth. Here's a 3D video showing what's so far known about its construction: h t t p://videnskab.dk/kultur-samfund/se-3d-animation-af-danmarks-vikingeborg-ved-koge
2014-11-27 08:04:40 Roderich: Thanks crust. Currently I'm trying to get in shape for the next tournament (I'm "Kratzer"). One should not stop playing Tafl ever! Glad to be back.
2014-11-27 08:30:46 crust: I was WONDERING who this Kratzer was... obviously not a beginner! lol
2014-11-29 08:52:32 crust: Peter Kelly, the hnefatafl grand-master who started the world hnefatafl championships in Shetland, has died after a long struggle with cancer. Sincere condolences to Janet and the rest of his family. Peter formulated the "Fetlar rules" of hnefatafl for tournament play, and made several trips to Edinburgh to teach hnefatafl at the National Museum of Scotland. He was also a keen astromomer, bird-watcher and a convivial host. He will be greatly missed.
2014-11-29 12:01:40 Hagbard: My condolences. We've had many fine tournaments with the Fetlar rules, and they are also functioning very well as new players' entrance to the world of tafl.
2014-11-30 12:52:23 altti: beautiful set cyningstan
2014-12-06 07:14:49 Hagbard: In this December time with few light hours, I'd want to draw attention to the ancient Viking poem The Hàvamàl. A poem full of wisdom: h t t p://w w w.ragweedforge.com/havamal.html
2014-12-06 10:40:31 Hagbard: Unterwichtel is Champion of Midgård.
2014-12-06 20:24:40 crust: congratulations Unterwichtel!
2014-12-07 02:46:14 altti: i have gifted a hnefatafl set with print outs of variant rule sets to the New York Estonian House (Eesti maja). I hope that this will encourage the revelers at the club bar to try their hands at the game of our ancestors. If you are ever in town look it up and drop in to challenge some Estonian vikings! Remember the hanging of King Grim at the hands of the Estonian and Curonian armies c410, and the sacking and burning of Sigtuna 1187, also the ravaging of Danish Lyster by Osilian piratica 1203 ☺
2014-12-07 08:04:35 Hagbard: Listerby in Danish Blekinge was ravaged 1203 by pirates living on Estonian islands Øsel and Dagø (today Saaremaa and Hiiumaa). This was one reason why Danish king Valdemar Sejr attacked and conquered Estonia. And this again is why the name of the Estonian capital today is Tallinn, meaning Castle of the Danes.
2014-12-07 08:11:36 Hagbard: By the way myth has it that the Danish flag Dannebrog fell from the sky during the battle at Tallinn 1219 (then Lyndanisse) and thus became the flag of Denmark. It's also said to be the oldest flag in the world still in use.
2014-12-07 12:34:14 altti: yes, unfortunately for the Danes and the Estonians the German knights of the sword ended up with all the gains by the mid 13th century. Danish hegemony would have been preferable. the Swedes attempted an incursion the following year the Danes took Lyndanisse but were served a crushing defeat at Lihula.
2014-12-10 19:08:55 crust: A big welcome to players from the hnefatafl club in Fairland, Oklahoma!
2014-12-11 17:30:24 Hagbard: Midgård has completed, so Midgård and Udgård made it before Christmas! Hurraahh! ;)
2014-12-12 14:01:14 crust: well played Unterwichtel!!
2014-12-12 15:43:30 Fairland: The Fairland Hnefatafl club has finished its first tournament! It presented unique challenges based on the "school club" system, but we finished it out and had a great time. Victors among the ranks here at aagenielsen.dk are: Teondrae, First place with all wins. Lance fourth place. and Big Irish, 13th. there were 18 competitors total.
2014-12-12 18:26:10 crust: Thanks for the update and well done Teondrae! Which rule-set did you play?
2014-12-12 22:17:03 Fairland: We used Copenhägen rules. We discussed Fetlar and Copenhägen during the early days of the club and the students voted on Copenhägen.
2014-12-12 22:36:58 Teondrae: Yes thanx lol I learned my skill from you. All those losses taught me a lot :)
2014-12-13 00:16:58 crust: Awesome! Copenhagen is my favourite too. 18 competitors is a pretty good size for a tournament; Well done you Fairlanders, Oklahoma will never be the same again
2014-12-13 09:20:23 Hagbard: Terrific!
2014-12-13 17:03:27 test1: Joins New Players' Tournament January 1st
2014-12-13 17:10:02 test1: Joins New Players' Tournament January 1st
2014-12-13 17:45:08 Plantagenêt: What will be the hnefatafl's variant of the new tournament?
2014-12-13 18:08:51 Hagbard: Either Fetlar or Copenhagen, our two defaults.
2014-12-13 19:17:43 sqAree: Joins New Players' Tournament January 1st
2014-12-13 21:34:54 sqAree: Wait, if the New Player's Tournament uses Fetlar rules, I want to unregister!
2014-12-14 09:39:26 Hagbard: It's up to the new players. Sounds like it should be Copenhagen.
2014-12-14 21:47:46 sqAree: I've got one question regarding a possible bug: A few days ago I accepted a Fetlar game and it immediately resigned itself for me, not even showing any pieces on the board. So, why is that, and how it can be fixed?
2014-12-15 01:10:44 teondrae: Joins New Players' Tournament January 1st
2014-12-15 07:29:05 Hagbard: About possible bug: Sounds like a multiple send of Enter. It has not happened before, and it did not affect the ratings.
2014-12-16 15:12:35 Teondrae: I love playing games so everyone challenge me at copanhageon can't spell lol. But yea I've learned a lot from playing crust and others. Thnx for all the new moves I know. :)
2014-12-17 19:53:09 Noobchen: Joins New Players' Tournament January 1st
2014-12-19 02:17:49 sqAree: About the bug: Thanks, and I'm glad because it told me my rating was affected.. About the New Year's Tournament: When I registered my rating was below 1550 and I had finished less than 50 games. Now I am 1550+ and finished exactly 50 games, can I still participate? Furthermore a question about the rules of copenhagen hnefatafl: Suppose black has secured each corner but white has king + 3 or less stones. What will the result be?
2014-12-19 21:46:04 Hagbard: Games less than 4 moves (2 of each player) are discarded without rating. About New Players' Tournament: yes, it's just a rough measurement of who are new. About Copenhagen hnefatafl: there is of now not a definite rule to handle the described situation. So we used to say that both white and black have too few pieces to ever win, so the game will go nowhere and is voluntarily ended as a draw. But for the Championship Tournament the umpire will decide on the problem.
2014-12-19 22:53:38 sqAree: Thanks once again! If white got at least king + 4 pieces left it would count as a black win. Doesn't make much sense that taking an opponent's piece changes the outcome for you in a negative way (imho).
2014-12-20 00:11:36 crust: to SqAree. Sorry, I don't understand your last comment. How is that a black win? If both players have too few pieces to win, I would declare a draw.
2014-12-20 01:32:02 sqAree: In this case I'd like to hear an explanation about the rule about draw forts. I'm not that used to the rules you guys are playing for a very long time ; I started playing just a few weeks ago. In my eyes the rule clearly states that in our given situation black could just move one piece repetitively and wait for white to repeat its board position three times, resulting in a black win. Also technically white could still build an edge fort with king + 4 pieces, so has not too few pieces to win. So yes, I'm quite confused by the rules. We should at least rephrase the whole rule page ; it doesn't tell anything about draw as a possible outcome yet it seems possible..
2014-12-20 04:04:40 halldav3: Joins New Players' Tournament January 1st
2014-12-20 08:55:28 Hagbard: When white has king + 4 pieces, and black blocked all corners but otherwise has too few pieces, white would probably go for the edge win fort. The meaning of the draw fort ban is that it's not allowed for white to barricade himself in an unbreakable fort or any other unbreakable position and just stay there without any attempts to win. The specific formulation of a couple of the rules is determined by the necessity of the computer being able to detect that one or the other situation has arised. Thus an efficient way to detect any white draw fort and any other unbreakable white position is, that white cannot avoid repeating his position 3 times. Your described situation with too few pieces on both sides is sort of a borderline case, where this detection method breaks down. On the other hand, in your described situation white could probably do thousands of moves before repeating 3 times, and it is really meant to end up as a draw by agreement. The rules should probably be rephrased to clarify such things.
2014-12-20 10:06:15 Schachus: I have to agree with SqAree there. The spirit of the rules should be "If white doesnt achieve a win(corner escape/edge fort) it is a black win". Basically, this is what it comes down to, actually, except for very few very special cases, that you discussed and that seem not quite in line with the spirit of the rules anyway. So this change would definitely clarify the rules and make them more accessiable for beginners
2014-12-20 14:04:57 altti: in a tournament game with nath I was left with king and 3 pieces at which point I resigned as I could not break his hold on corners or hope to build a fort.
2014-12-20 19:09:00 Noobchen: Joins New Players' Tournament January 1st
2014-12-20 20:57:23 halldav3: Joins New Players' Tournament January 1st
2014-12-21 07:18:45 Hagbard: Other opinions on the Copenhagen too-few-pieces-on-both-sides draw/black win? I can think of players who would like to abolish yet another draw situation. But if it were to be a black win, how could you make out that you are in such a situation, which no side can win in any ordinary way?
2014-12-21 13:17:30 crust: in chess it's a draw if you get down to just kings, or king and one bishop or king and one knight. Checkmate is impossible for either player, so: a draw. If this is the case in chess, I son't see why this is not o.k. for hnefatafl
2014-12-21 18:33:54 altti: I agree with the draw option if the game is hopelessly stagnated without either player having to break the 3 move repetition, or capable of outright victory.
2014-12-22 13:39:44 xerxes: Joins New Players' Tournament January 1st
2014-12-23 11:50:47 thegameterrorist: Joins New Players' Tournament January 1st
2014-12-23 15:40:13 Schachus: What do those nubers mean(e.g test 12.1, test 34.6 an so on)
2014-12-23 21:45:30 Hagbard: It's test of a new timeout routine to replace the current one after the Championship tournament.
2014-12-23 22:59:14 Schachus: And how is the number calculated?
2014-12-24 01:54:45 Hagbard: The test calculation is: 1.5 days free for each move. Time used beyond that accumulates into the test number.
2014-12-24 09:22:22 Schachus: But that means, one doesn't ever get time back, even for moving quicker than 1,5 days? Seems so, I made 59 moves against crust, that would be 88,5 days to use, but still I'm at 31,something. I definitely have not used 120 days(not even running so long), which would mean. I didnt get any time back for moving quicker than 1,5 days. If so, I dont like this System, once in time prssure, you never get out!
2014-12-24 10:04:51 Hagbard: I suppose it's a yes to all the questions. The method can be expressed as "1.5 days per move and a 15 days buffer." (Hat tip: Adam). The method also has a name on Wikipedia: "Time control", "Simple delay." The theory is that the method results in an evenly running game. (Hat tip again: Adam). As for never get out, I did add a small modification to the scheme: for every move, a player gets 0.1 days back to his time buffer, but such that the buffer cannot exceed 15 days. So for every ten moves, you do get one day back. Anyway, the championship tournament is not affected.
2014-12-24 14:42:44 Hagbard: New players: remember to sign in for the tournament, which begins 1st of January.
2014-12-26 10:29:37 Calidesert: Joins New Players' Tournament January 1st
2014-12-27 06:54:58 Hagbard: Signed in for the New Players' Tournament till now: sqAree, teondrae, Noobchen, halldav3, xerxes, thegameterrorist, Calidesert
2014-12-27 09:10:41 Schachus: This is an unfortunate way to (most likely) decide the tournament
2014-12-27 09:40:09 Hagbard: Schachus, the tournament is *not* affected. The tournament still follows the same timing rule as from the beginning.
2014-12-27 11:15:01 animals: Joins New Players' Tournament January 1st
2014-12-27 16:40:13 Schachus: I know, Hagbard. I meant Plantagenet timing out in his game against me.
2014-12-27 16:43:35 Hagbard: Yes I saw the Plantagenêt timeout. It was a timeout by the old rules, more than 20 days for latest 10 moves.
2014-12-27 17:02:35 Schachus: I know, but that doesnt make it less unfortunate...
2014-12-28 17:08:16 Schachus: Imo in the new timing system, it is a lot more important to always show time usage(not only with 3 days left). That is, because it is much harder to get time back, and when you see the warning, it might be "too late"(e.g. If in the future there is a period, in which you know you cant be online).
2014-12-28 17:11:32 Schachus: One more question: Isn't the new timeout system in place for just 4 days? How come that there are already timout warnings according to the new system in some games? I thought this coulnt happen before at least 12 days have passed.
2014-12-28 18:03:28 Hagbard: Yes perhaps the time buffer used should be shown.
2014-12-28 18:03:56 Hagbard: A Happy New Year 2015 to all tafl players! And best of luck to the World Tafl Federation, Fairland Schools Hnefatafl Club, Tromsø Tafl Laug, Fetlar Hnefatafl Panel, reenactment groups in all UK and in Tønsberg, the tafl milieu in Berlin and tafl players all over the world! And a wish more for the new year: that the championship tournament 2014 could possibly be finished before the next one starts September 1st 2015...! ;)
2014-12-28 21:46:48 Adam: Hello all, and thank you for the new year greetings Hagbard. Just to throw in my thoughts on this timeout conversation. The idea with the new finite buffer is quite simple, it is so that the timeout is somewhat analagous to a chess clock, in that there ought to be a time pressure, which has a realistic chance of running out. The buffer is there for two main reasons, one, in case you need extra thinking time for a tricky move, and two, if you have a period where you can't get online. And yes, once you are in time pressure, you never get out. Like a chess clock, one is committed to the game, and the clock is ticking. Ever the diplomat though, If Hagbard can and wants to program it, I see no reason why there can't be an option (outside of tournaments) for players who don't want any time pressure, to choose just that, no timeout whatsoever. But this should not be a default setting. The idea of winning back time on your timeout seems rather odd within the chess clock analogy, either time ca
2014-12-28 21:49:18 sqAree: In nowadays chess default mode gives you time back per move. It's not much but theoretically you can increase your thinking time by playing a lot of moves in a short period.
2014-12-28 22:52:01 sqAree: Okay, I just understood the new timeout system. Nevermind my comment. However, I agree there should be a something showing the time usage at any time..
2014-12-28 23:24:51 crust: Thank you Hagbard for your new year's message, I would like to say on behalf of all the players and users of this website, a very happy new year to you too; we appreciate your hard work, creativity, diligence, hospitality and of course friendship. Godt Nytar!
2014-12-29 07:52:02 Hagbard: Adam, what was the last part of your message about timeout? The message was cut off in middle of a sentence.
2014-12-29 11:16:59 Hagbard: Could one of our German friends please take a look at the Fetlar rules in German, especially point 7? h t t p://aagenielsen.dk/fetlar_rules_german.html And maybe Plantagenêt the rules in French, please, also point 7: h t t p://aagenielsen.dk/fetlar_rules_french.html
2014-12-29 12:54:32 sqAree: Regarding rule number 7, I'd suggest: "Der König selbst wird gefangen genommen, [indem] die Angreifer ihn auf allen vier kardinalen Nachbarquadraten umgeben. Wenn er auf einem Quadrat neben dem Thron ist, müssen die Angreifer alle kardinalen Nachbarquadrate außer dem Thron besetzen. Der König kann nicht am Rand gefangen werden."
2014-12-29 13:15:02 Schachus: I would write "Feld" instead of "Quadrat"( same as in chess, Quadrat would be the literal translation)
2014-12-29 13:17:26 Schachus: And of course, that would be "Nachbarfelder(n)" instead of "Nachbarquadrate(n)"
2014-12-29 17:46:53 Hagbard: Thanks a lot for the German translation!
2014-12-29 21:57:34 Fairland: On behalf of the Fairland Hnefatafl Club, thank you for the New Year's wishes!
2014-12-29 22:00:15 Fairland: On a personal note, I am really excited to see the Brandubh variants being play-tested on the site! I would except Mr. Nielsen's challenge on every one of them, but I am finally starting to play a decent tafl game again and I don't want to ruin that progress with variant testing. :)
2014-12-30 01:59:13 mike0127: Joins New Players' Tournament January 1st
2014-12-30 03:41:21 Sigurd: Joins New Players' Tournament January 1st
2014-12-30 04:29:10 altti: I enjoy the testing and am grateful it does not affect ratings. but keeping the rule sets straight in my head is the difficulty
2014-12-30 04:56:27 Fairland: My problem is dramatic change in strategy. A strategem that works like gold in corner 11X11 is suicide in edge. Using hnefatafl strategy in Brandubh will get you killed, and tablut is deceivingly different than the other two. I used to have a decently high rating here, then I started heavily play testing edge escape, Ard RI and Brandubh and have never been able to play Copenhagen since...
2014-12-30 07:37:10 Hagbard: Signed in for the New Players' Tournament till now: sqAree, teondrae, Noobchen, halldav3, xerxes, thegameterrorist, Calidesert, animals, mike0127, Sigurd
2014-12-30 08:33:50 crust: It would help a lot to have the rules written next to the game board. Not necessarily ALL the rules, but just the variations, e.g."king captured on 2 sides, wins in corner. Throne is friendly to all pieces and the corners hostile to all pieces." It would help to have that right in front of us while playing, especially when testing several variations that differ only slightly.
2014-12-30 11:12:18 Adam: Oops, I think I said something like 'either time can run out or it can't. '
2014-12-30 11:15:34 Adam: @crust: I do just that if I have multiple rule sets running. I open a second window with the rules summary page. But if each games summary could appear on the page margin that might be helpful.
2014-12-30 12:55:07 crust: @Adam: dwimmer-crafty!
2014-12-30 15:42:37 altti: @ Fairland: I think my play has been affected the same way. though I enjoy tablut since I have such good results ☺
2014-12-30 17:48:46 Adam: @Fairland/altti: I think its quite a common problem, and ultimately a reasonable argument for game type specific ratings tables, if just a few rule sets are eventually settled on. I find Aage's colour coded boards help a great deal. When I see a red board the Berserk rules pop right into my head. But I agree, the rule variations can play havoc with ones game at the corners!
2014-12-30 18:39:41 mmagari: Joins New Players' Tournament January 1st
2014-12-31 03:22:32 Nath: I think the new time control will lead to a lot of timeouts. I can't move every day. Even if I can move 4 days a week one time each, I will likely loose, because I loose (even if I move in all my games) 1-1.5 days during that 3 days. So I'd have to make 15 moves during the other 4 days...sounds crazy to me. I don't want to sabotage any new creative attempts of new time control, but 0.1 days sounds to cruial to me. I also don't understand why I get punished if I move faster than 1.5 days since I loose that time totally. I like the idea of the time buffer, but I suspect the new system with 0.1 days will lead to good quality postal games.
2014-12-31 03:30:10 Nath: The interesting fact is that we already judged about the three pice position than BEFORE we invented the shildwall capture in first place. There is a old rule (at least for our meassures) that prohibes permutal repition, so the thetending, i.e. stalemating player has to change. This rule in fact was never enforced against black and only enforced to prevent the white king from permutal attacks to different corners. If there only at most 3 white pices+king left, the only chance white could have is an attack at the corners. If it turns out to be a permutal check this rule should be applied. So the only critical position that is left is "all corners secured, white has least 3 men+king".
2014-12-31 03:36:04 Nath: Ruling this position, just because black has conquered one pice to much, as a draw, is more than counterintive, in fact it breaks with the philosophie we had. We agreed that draw forts (not only the ones at the center, but all of them) should be treated as a win for black. Why should we cast this special position differently? If black moves back and forward white is actually the stalemating player, because he neither try to escape nor try to built an edge fort.
2014-12-31 03:47:51 Nath: If white would try to, the position would be desided in favor for black... I gave a very formal reason for my oppinion in the last posts. A reason based on rules and discussion we had so far. In fact my motivation to approach this topic is different. It's more based on the idea of SqAree and Schachus. We want to be an open community (at least I hope so). Thus we need a deep game (for our minds accesssable, but with deep underling problem) with easy rules. We don't want to hit new players with a 20 side rulebook. The carm in Hnefatal lies in the simple rules and mechanics. I can't think of another interesting game with such simple mechanics. And I want this mechanics easy accessable for new players rather than be hit by exclusive special cases. We should rewrite our rules in any case to clarify and simplify them, because we actually scare off beginners with our current confusing stuff. Hnefatafl can have much easier rules than other games like chess and we should take advantage of this fact.
2014-12-31 03:49:03 Nath: Hopefully I didn't spam to much - a happy new year to all of you! :)
2014-12-31 07:08:09 Hagbard: @nath: Interesting points. But again, if the Copenhagen too-few-pieces-on-both-sides were to be a black win, how could you make out that the game is in this situation?
2014-12-31 07:34:05 Hagbard: That is, how can a computer detect this situation?
2014-12-31 12:26:22 cyningstan: I've just noticed the new brandub variants, and have a bit more time on my hands now so will try to help with the testing. Brandubh-2 is described as the "Damian Walker version" - can I confirm, then, that the king is captured on 2 sides everywhere?
2014-12-31 12:32:20 Hagbard: Brandubh-2 Tablut 7x7 is implemented as described in your rules, that is king captured from 2 sides (except in center as far as I remember)
2014-12-31 12:40:36 cyningstan: If you need 3/4 to capture the king in the centre then it differs from my rules - I use the tawlbwrdd rule where the king is captured on two sides everywhere. Your interpretation might be better, but you might want to remove the "(Damian Walker version)" bit of the description so as to avoid confusion. That's assuming you don't want to alter those rules now that games have been played with them. Brandubh-4 anyone? :-)
2014-12-31 13:07:05 Hagbard: But even without a 3/4 capture in centre, do you then still have the special throne square in your description?
2014-12-31 15:52:42 biscuitman: Joins New Players' Tournament January 1st
2014-12-31 15:56:27 biscuitman: Joins New Players' Tournament January 1st
2014-12-31 17:19:20 cyningstan: Yes, the central square is accessible only to the king (who can return there if he wants). Other pieces may pass over it. But it's not hostile to either side.
2014-12-31 18:11:23 Asmo: Joins New Players' Tournament January 1st
2014-12-31 18:26:38 sqAree: In my games against Asmo, why are the expected rating changes 0 in all cases? Regarding the copenhagen rule issue: I am currently pausing a game until I know how this situation is handled.. But there aren't many days left before I timeout. And of course I still think it should be a black win, which is why I won't accept the draw for now. If you have trouble implementing a black win detection, it would be fine to just update the rules and use a referee to decide these games.
2015-01-01 05:11:50 Nath: For the computer implementation I suggest the following: 1. If a position repeates for the 3rd time with the same player to move, white loose. 2. If all corners are secured and white has at most 3+king left, white loose. 3. If all corner are secured and no edge has more than 2 connecting fields to reach with white left, white loose (this is a theretical rule change since I am ignoring very special cases where black might to be forced to give one edge away again...but seriously - all 4 edges are therened while all 4 corner are secured???). Please notice: I NEVER talked about positions with one or more not-secured corners. (For determining whether a corner a corner is safe or not, I do the same we already do with shildwall captures). Since the procedure is resursive, the server might need 3-5 cpu ms to calculate that for an acctual position...but that shouldn't be a problem. If you need more complex things to proof that the position is safe by forcing white to repeat. I wouldn't mind humans to judge games where black has less than 12 pieces left.
2015-01-01 08:41:42 Hagbard: @sqAree: because Asmo at the time had zero completed games.
2015-01-01 10:08:53 mmagari: Joins New Players' Tournament January 1st
2015-01-02 08:28:22 cyningstan: My interpretation of the Magpie rules was formerly incorrect. I've found the original source and corrected my leaflet, my print & play and my Java applet. So if you've downloaded my Magpie leaflet as linked to on the Rules page here, then please download it again.
2015-01-02 09:10:50 Hagbard: @cyningstan: Which details were changed? I checked again on your site and it looks like I did start from the updated rules.
2015-01-02 11:25:15 cyningstan: @Hagbard: I had it that a piece could only be captured against a corner square. Having checked Nigel Suckling's (archived) web site, it turns out the centre is hostile too, as in your version.
2015-01-02 11:52:02 crust: Congratulations Schachus! Amazing performance in the 2014 World Championship tournament. Nice to know there are 5 grandmasters again :)
2015-01-02 12:35:59 Hagbard: @nath: The longest ever Copenhagen game with white winner was 195 moves (and next, 187, 184, 161, 156). The longest ever end game with no pieces captured, in a Copenhagen game with white winner was 56 moves (and next, 49, 42). So all too-few-pieces-on-both-sides cases can be covered by the Chess fifty-move rule (in chess, that is 50 white + 50 black moves) something like this: "If no capture has been made in the last 100 moves, then the attackers win." Problem is that we play via the internet, so it could take half a year (180 days) to detect this rule violation.
2015-01-02 17:25:02 xerxes: Is there a summary of the tournament rules somewhere ? The newbie tournament (tournament 30) has started, and I am wondering when the games have to be started by - I don't think I can handle 20+ games at once, so what happens if insufficient moves are made within the 3 day limit, does the game just get reset after 3 days ?
2015-01-02 18:17:29 Hagbard: @xerxes: Copenhagen rules are found under page "Rules", "Copenhagen". Timing: the usual 3 days limit for starting a game is suspended for tournament games, but it's better to do the two moves anyway. Besides that, the timing is 1.5 day per move and 15 days buffer.
2015-01-03 10:02:42 Hagbard: After 5 months pause in test tournaments, perhaps we're ready for another one? The "Magpie" game, read more about it on h t t p://tafl.cyningstan.com/download/968/magpie-leaflet It's really a Fetlar game, but the king can walk only one step at a time.
2015-01-03 10:05:55 Adam: @Nath, that's a lot to respond to, I suggest you open some posts in the large forum so we can discuss easier. In short response: the goal of black is to capture the king. Preventing his escape is only a prelude to capture. No capture, no cigar. The repetition should apply to black as to white. My reasoning I'll save for the forum as with the timeout issue ;)
2015-01-03 18:47:13 Teondrae: Where is the new players tournament box scores and games at for it?
2015-01-03 18:54:56 Hagbard: On the "Tournaments" page.
2015-01-03 18:55:14 sqAree: @Teondrae: It's right at the tournament page, almost at thte very top. @Adam: I guess then draw forts should count as a draw also. However, agreed, let's talk about it in the main forum as it's really not that easy. @Hagbard: I would offer translating any ruleset of our tafl variants to German. Just tell me where to send my notes!
2015-01-03 21:43:21 Hagbard: @mmagari: tonythebook tells that you had some problems with reading the Fetlar rules. They are translated into French in the Rules page.
2015-01-04 06:59:35 Hagbard: I wrote a championship evaluation on the large forum (seen from a technical angle).
2015-01-04 08:46:40 Hagbard: @sqAree: Thanks very much! It'd be fine to have the Copenhagen rules translated into German. You could send the translation to the email adress at the bottom of this page.
2015-01-04 09:33:38 altti: can you streamline the game acceptance method to allow multiple games to be accepted at one time. I find it very tedious to have to go back to the page over and over again. I would accept more games if this was possible.
2015-01-04 11:26:33 Hagbard: yes, I think it could be possible
2015-01-04 17:36:31 Adam: @SqAree: copenhagen edge forts are 'exit' forts, draw forts are not allowed in Copenhagen. So the goal of white is for the king to escape, either via a conventional corner exit, or by creating an exit. Blacks goal is to capture the king.
2015-01-05 23:24:52 Teondrae: Is it possible too update the website to join more than one game at a time? So i dont have to sign in 4 times lol
2015-01-05 23:27:33 Hagbard: You can do that already. Just click more games on the list.
2015-01-05 23:43:16 Hagbard: - or if you want to invite for more variants, you can use the browser's go-back key and then click on another variant
2015-01-05 23:49:39 Teondrae: Thanks. :) lol I had no idea I could click on multiple bubbles and accept them all at once. :) I need people to challenge me lol I'm ready to lose and learn. Whoever thinks they can beat me extremely bad I want that challenge I'm not scared :) haha
2015-01-06 09:00:57 xerxes: Drawn games in tournaments: What happens if a game is drawn in a tournament ? Is it ignored and another game played ? Thanks.
2015-01-06 10:34:57 crust: to xerxes: if the game is a draw, both players get half a point. The outcome of the tournament is decided by who wins the most points
2015-01-07 00:51:24 teondrae: Ive been playing Magpie-1 7x7 == My opinion i have not won as black and honestly think white has a huge advantage even with the king restrictions. I think that maybe turn it into an 8x8 and test it. It could give black a little better chance of defending. We should test that and see if it works out?
2015-01-07 01:47:18 Fairland: 8X8 doesn't work, there is no middle column with that setup. All hnefatafl board sizes are odd numbers. As for magpie, I haven't played it, but Brandubh was already balanced, I do not believe the rule changes presented by magpie maintain balance. Why mess with something that already works?
2015-01-07 02:47:34 teondrae: Oh people in the new players tournament thee is a couple players that has not made one move yet on any games. Just wondering if the tournament has a time span to make a move or not?
2015-01-07 07:23:00 Hagbard: Yes. If the two players never move, they'll hit the "1.5 day per move and 15 days buffer" wall after 16.5 days, and all their games will simply be removed from the tournament.
2015-01-07 08:26:03 crust: Hagbard, how about a link from here (or just below this box) to the exact page in the large forum, where issues arising from the 2014 championship tournament can be discussed? At the moment it is complicated to find, and it would be good to gather a range of views.
2015-01-07 10:14:18 cyningstan: @Fairland, Magpie is an older rule set than the brandubh played on here. It was designed for a book "The Leprechaun Companion" published in 1999. The brandubh on here is partially based on my brandub rules from after 2004, with a bit of the reconstructed tablut (post 2010) thrown in. The balance of any of these remains to be seen, but Magpie has enough pedigree to be worth having here. And I'm happy that we have the same variety of 7x7 games as we do for the other board sizes :-)
2015-01-07 11:54:26 sqAree: So, I registered for the large forum.
2015-01-07 14:02:44 sqAree: Has anyone ever thought about suggesting Hnefatafl as an event at the Mind Sports Olympiad? I think this would be a possible way to draw attention to Hnefatafl as a lot of strategic board game fans concentrate there.
2015-01-08 11:10:49 Hagbard: What about a small change to the timing: The playing activity is much greater in winter than in summer, and two weeks of holidays is more usual in summer than in winter. Thus the timing could be changed into: Games started summer (April - August): 1.5 days per move and buffer 15 days. Games started winter (September - Marts): 1.5 days per move and buffer 8 days. I've checked the current games, and everybody are already moving so swiftly that only 3% of the current games are in trouble with such a change (6 out of 173 games). A change would only take effect for games started from now on.
2015-01-08 17:07:32 Hagbard: Nath, Schachus and Plantagenêt are fond of long games and do a thorough work exploring unknown corners of the game, so these three could keep the 15 days buffer in games against each other?
2015-01-08 19:53:40 Hagbard: Besides, 8 days buffer is not really more strict than before. Because before, 20 days could be used for 10 moves. And with 8 days buffer, 24 days can be used for 10 moves (10 * 1.5 + 8 + 10 * 0.1).
2015-01-09 10:16:21 sqAree: I wrote a small note in the large forum dealing with the copenhagen rules (accidently sent two times). Feel free to discuss there as soon as the post has been approved by an admin.
2015-01-10 21:56:44 teondrae: The championship tournament has some games on timeout. I wanna see them finished?
2015-01-11 00:16:32 Hagbard: They would've timed out by the new timing rules, but they follow the old rules.
2015-01-11 18:55:40 teondrae: What are the old rules?
2015-01-11 20:29:45 Hagbard: Old timing rules not used anymore: 10 or 20 days per latest 10 moves. New timing rules: 1.5 day per move and 8 or 15 days buffer.
2015-01-11 20:38:53 nath: The concept of a 15 days time buffer+0.1 days increment has the simple problem that you never really gain time back. A usual game has a length of arround 60-80 moves - so you get 3-4 days back. So if you can't move at any time for more than 1.5 days, you consume your buffer. If you have for example three connected days a week where you can't move for various reasons you can't compense that fact now matter how fast you are moving during the three other days. I don't like that new system, because the 0.1 days force the player to hard to a specific way of living. A time control with 1 day+0.5 time buffer (while time buffer 15 or even 10 days) sound much more reasonable to me. I could also imagine to just a time buffer and no time beforehand (so you get for example 1.5 days per move). But 0.1 days is just lean...
2015-01-11 22:10:05 Hagbard: An average Fetlar game is 60 moves. Let's say you're home 4 days in a week and away 3 days. So let's say you make 4 moves in a week, and the whole game then lasts 7.5 weeks. Every weekend you use 1.5 days from the buffer. So you need 11.25 days buffer. And you have buffer 8 days + 30 * 0.1 = 11 days, which is thus enough buffer.
2015-01-12 06:27:46 Hagbard: However, I guess that the timing need not be an involuntary straitjacket. We could make a More Time Club, so that when two members of this club play against each other, they'll get much more time for the game? Who will join a More Time Club of players?
2015-01-12 18:54:21 sqAree: I'd certainly join a More Time Club as time is a great tool to examine positions thoroughly. However, in my opinion it would be unfair to give certain players more time than others, even if the opponents gets it as well. We have a rating and a tournament system so we should have same conditions for everyone.
2015-01-12 19:19:33 Hagbard: It could work this way: All tournaments, normal timing. All normal games with both players members of More Time Club, extra time. All other games, normal timing. I'm sure it would have no perceptible effect on the ratings.
2015-01-12 19:26:56 Hagbard: "Extra time" could be as simple as a double up: 15 days buffer instead of 8, and restored 0.2 days per move instead of 0.1?
2015-01-13 11:08:19 Hagbard: - and 2 days per move in the More Time Club instead of 1.5?
2015-01-13 12:20:13 Hagbard: A game of 100 moves in the MTC will then last 250 days - a bit more than 8 months.
2015-01-13 12:42:37 Hagbard: (Speaking of timing, AreVidar and Olli finished a 100 moves game right now - 5 days!)
2015-01-13 13:30:30 Hagbard: Anyway, some players prefer quick games, and some players prefer time to lift the games through careful analysis. That's two points of view, and nothing wrong with one or the other. I'm quite ready to introduce such a More Time Club, preferably with timing rules kept simple. I suggest for MTC: 2 days per move. 15 days buffer. 0.2 days restored per move. MTC timing for normal games between MTC members, and normal (shorter) timing for everything else. I hope that this sounds reasonable, and who wants to join the MTC?
2015-01-13 16:25:05 Teondrae: I like both ideas more time for a tournament sounds reasonabl to think about the moves but also I like to play quicker games so less time for an opponent to play me is nice so games go quicker. Cus I like to play :)
2015-01-13 19:42:51 Hagbard: By the way, by the present timing a 100 moves game can last half a year (176 days), which seems to be also quite some time to think about a game? And that's even without a More Time Club.
2015-01-14 16:19:01 Fairland: I am not a mathemetician, and anyone who has played me knows that I am not a particular y good strategical thinker either. But I have had zero trouble with the new timing system so far. And I think an entire school year (180 days in the U.S.) is more than enough time for one game. This comment is not to spark up more argument, I just wanted to throw in my two hay-pennies worth in as support for the new system.
2015-01-14 17:32:54 Adam: All Naths points against the new timing system are exactly the same as all my arguments for implementing it... My point being that the time restriction is not there to ensure you have plenty of time to think, its there to ensure you don't take too long. Of course, we all have different lifestyles, so its not a level playing field, but it wouldn't be for any system. If we are to have a 'more time club' we will need a 'more time club rating table'. Think of the timer as an hour glass. When its not your move, the sand stops, when it is your move, the sand runs. At no point should the sand defy gravity and float back to the top.
2015-01-14 19:05:21 crust: I don't like the idea of two separate time systems; it seems likely to split our small group of players into two even smaller groups. I can't see why anyone would want a game to go on for longer than 6 months, so I would rather keep to the new system that Hagbard has established. Let us at least try it for a while. One further point is that very long games are likely to drive away casual players, or players who also have the possibility to play in real life
2015-01-14 20:42:00 Adam: Also, as this is correspondence chess, this isn't really even about thinking time, its about ensuring there is time to respond. The 1.5 days does that. The buffer is really only there in case one is unable to respond for a day here and there. It is not 'thinking time'. Whether a person spends 30 seconds or 30 minutes thinking about their move is up to them. I find it hard to believe people are spending 30 hours or dare i say 300 hours thinking about a move. And if they are, its not really a board game any more, more of a bored game. This all boils down to how many games a person can reasonably commit to at any given time. If you are busy, simply commit to less games.
2015-01-15 00:16:56 altti: in the chess correspondence games I used to play via postcard (before PCs) you had as much time to think as you would like. each player was good enough to get the move done in less than a week and then it took about a week to get it through the mail. in face to face tournaments there is a clock which changes the game to favor more experienced players, as it should be for a tournament. I haven't played chess via PC or in tournaments this century so I don't know what they have implemented. catan website play has a two minute limit per move at which time the other players can elect to remove the delaying player.
2015-01-16 06:31:32 sqAree: When inviting for a new game "Fetlar Hnefatafl 11x11" is pre-selected. Clicking "more variants" shows the list of available variants but now "Copenhagen Hnefatafl 11x11" is default. Spotting an inconsistency..
2015-01-16 06:45:31 Hagbard: The meaning is: Beginners - default Fetlar; experienced players - default Copenhagen. Copenhagen is thought to be a bit too complicated for beginners, and Fetlar is nearly the same game but simpler.
2015-01-16 21:36:44 Fairland: I would like to put some cents into that one as well! With the Hnefatafl club, we played Fetlar for a grand total of two days. It was used as the introduction to hnefatafl, but as soon as each member had played at least one sample game as white and one as black, we explained Copenhägen rules and we switched. I left the choice up to the students, but they naturally saw Copenhägen as the superior rule set because of its ability to negate draw forts. From this data, I have concluded that if players are "raised on Copenhägen" they would enjoy the game just as much without any jarring rule changes down the road.
2015-01-16 22:19:56 Hagbard: If Fairland experienced this with a whole class of beginners, then perhaps Copenhagen can as well be the default from start?
2015-01-17 01:04:35 crust: That would be good :)
2015-01-18 12:28:40 crust: can't seem to invite for a new game off the first page (default page), but if I click on "other variations" and invite from the next page, it works fine. Maybe a bug?
2015-01-18 13:27:14 Hagbard: Thanks, corrected
2015-01-18 16:41:23 nath: I am busy like 80 % of the time. If you don't want busy persons to play you loose a lot of players like me. I have no problem with finishing games in a reasonable period of time. I have no problem of limiting the time a player can use. My real problem is that you have to move the whole time. Even when you several busy points spread over the week the first thing that suffers are hoobys like this game. If you instantly time out, the fun is gone. I don't a problem with a short time control in general, but with the situation to give no agency at all. I don't need more than 2 games for a move. In fact I would accreciate to have at most 1 day per move and at least 0.5 days add to the time buffer. Cuerrently we are starting with 15 days buffer. Why not starting at 2-5 days (and still cap on 15 days)? If would give 1 day+1day buffer per move, we still ensure a player has the opportunity to move before the buffer is affected and also ensured some steady supply to the buffer. A usual game has less than 80 moves. With the current system in 80 half-move game a player would have up to 79 days. With 1 day+1 day time buffer (and 2 days starting so starting at 10-13 daysed time buffer) we would have up to 82-85 days. For a 60 half-move game (which seems to happen more often) you have 63 days with the current system and 62-65 days with my new suggestion. The real point that was talking about is not the total amount of time, but the opportunity to really leave this site half a week unvisited
2015-01-18 16:44:33 nath: I don't mind the idea of having different time formats. But if we want to do so, we shouldn't let this depend on the player but on the game. If two players want a qick fun game I don't see why should forbid that, if they both agree on the time control. I like the idea of custimize the time control of games you offer.
2015-01-20 11:13:08 Hagbard: Or? : More than 1.5 day for a move: time buffer used, nothing restored. Less than 1.5 day: 0.1 day restored. Less than 0.75 day: 0.2 day restored.
2015-01-20 11:44:47 Hagbard: Example: A player does 5 quick moves and thus restores 1 day. Leaves for 3 days and uses netto 0.5 day from the time buffer. In a 100 moves game he'll use in total only 5 days from the time buffer. And still the game will last no more than 166 days. It also won't be a kangaroo game, because a player can leave for 9.5 days, then make 40 quick moves to restore the buffer, preparing to leave again, but alas, instead the game is already finished...
2015-01-21 09:34:52 Schachus: Was the Duhawk-Plantagenet championship game drawn by agreement?
2015-01-22 10:52:43 Hagbard: My invitations are for three doubtful rule combinations and one more, to learn more about how they work or not.
2015-01-22 21:03:53 Hagbard: @Schachus: it must have been.
2015-01-24 09:56:58 Hagbard: A Roskilde Viking ship is visiting China: h t t p://w w w.vikingeskibsmuseet.dk/nyheder/archive/2015/january/article/vikingeskib-paa-vej-mod-kina/
2015-01-26 08:19:27 test1: Joins New Players' Tournament February, Saami Tablut 9x9
2015-01-26 14:38:26 mmagari: Joins New Players' Tournament February, Saami Tablut 9x9
2015-01-26 19:13:55 mmagari: Joins New Players' Tournament February, Saami Tablut 9x9
2015-01-27 09:55:51 Schachus: strangely, the line "Schachus used x.x of y days of time buffer" is not shown anymore in my games...
2015-01-27 15:36:10 teondrae: Joins New Players' Tournament February, Saami Tablut 9x9
2015-01-27 15:36:35 teondrae: Joins New Players' Tournament February, Saami Tablut 9x9
2015-01-27 15:40:49 Hagbard: At the bottom of the "My current games" page, click Enter for "Show my games and time buffers used".
2015-01-27 15:50:24 Hagbard: Separate rating lists for each variant have sometimes been demanded for. A separate calculation shows: Copenhagen Hnefatafl: 1. Schachus, 2. Nath. Fetlar Hnefatafl: 1. Plantagenêt, 2. Crust. Berserk Hnefatafl: 1. Adam, 2. Nath. Saami Tablut: 1. Altti, 2. Hagbard. Sea battle tafl: 1. Duhawk93, 2. Arne64. Brandubh: 1. Crust, 2. Hagbard. All games: 1. Schachus, 2. Plantagenêt.
2015-01-27 16:00:46 Adam: Very nice to see. The Tafl games we are settling on as the ones that function well require such different strategy that I think we can expect to see specialists in each game. That certainly seems to be the case here.
2015-01-27 21:54:57 Hagbard: The full list is in h t t p://aagenielsen.dk/separate_ratings.php
2015-01-27 22:47:38 Schachus: How come that overall list is different from the currently used ratings?
2015-01-27 23:13:47 Hagbard: Don't quite know.
2015-01-28 06:54:49 Hagbard: Players who have both Magpie-1 and Magpie-2 games running, please remember: Magpie-1: King *cannot* be captured on the edge. Magpie-2: King *can* be captured on the edge.
2015-01-28 16:34:56 Adam: @Schachus/Hagbard: could it be that the main rating includes games played long ago, including models no longer used, while the 'All games' rating here only includes currently active game types?
2015-01-28 16:58:02 Hagbard: Yes, there are differences.
2015-01-29 09:24:32 Hagbard: Seems to work (in effect only from Jan. 25th): Time buffer 15 days. 1 day per move, whereafter time buffer is used. If a move is done within 12 hours, then 0.1 day is restored to the time buffer. If a move is done within 6 hours, then 0.2 day is restored to the time buffer. If a move is done within 3 hours, then 0.325 day is restored to the time buffer. When the time buffer is used up, you'll still always have 1.5 day for your current move, and thus can never time out until after 1.5 day.
2015-01-29 13:02:32 xerxes: Joins New Players' Tournament February, Saami Tablut 9x9
2015-01-29 13:42:55 Schachus: That sounds good, Hagbard :), but I would still like to know, how much buffer I have left. Somehow this Info has disappeared in my games.
2015-01-29 21:54:25 Hagbard: A red-letter day! The Hnefatafl Championship tournament 2014 completed today after 5 months; the last Round 2 game took 112 days. The championship winner, Schachus, won all his games, 16 points, grand slam, full house!
2015-01-30 12:01:34 Hagbard: @Schachus: At the bottom of the "My current games" page, click Enter for "Show my games and time buffers used".
2015-01-30 19:59:21 Schachus: ah, perfect :)
2015-01-31 08:19:02 Hagbard: Signed in for New Players' Saami Tablut 9x9 tournament till now: mmagari, teondrae and xerxes
2015-01-31 17:30:02 nasemaser: Joins New Players' Tournament February, Saami Tablut 9x9
2015-01-31 18:16:04 altti: Joins New Players' Tournament February, Saami Tablut 9x9
2015-02-01 02:30:51 altti: I don't qualify for the tournament. I would so enjoy it though. my favorite variant. ☺
2015-02-01 06:11:27 Hagbard: @Altti: I know it's your favourite, I found that out myself in many games... Perhaps the new players could be warned af a great white shark in the pool.
2015-02-01 20:03:07 Hagbard: Any French speaking players who'll correct the errors in this French sentence? The king himself is captured when the attackers surround him in all four cardinal points. When he is on a square next to the throne, the attackers must occupy all surrounding squares in the four points of the compass except the throne. The king cannot be captured on the edge. Le roi lui-même est capturé quand les attaquants l'encercler des quatre côtés. Quand il est sur une des cases à côté du trône, les attaquants doivent occuper toutes les cases environnantes, sauf le trône. Le roi ne peut pas être capturé en bordure.
2015-02-02 21:51:00 cantlose: Joins New Players' Tournament February, Saami Tablut 9x9
2015-02-03 09:22:19 Hagbard: Signed in for New Players' Saami Tablut 9x9 tournament till now: mmagari, teondrae, xerxes, nasemaser, altti and cantlose
2015-02-04 03:26:29 Teondrae: The New Players Tournament I won against Hav8 and it is timed out :( why is it timed out I did win.
2015-02-04 06:31:03 Hagbard: You certainly won, but apparently halldav3 made himself scarce before the last two moves so that you won by timeout. Same with Asmo.
2015-02-05 01:52:24 Teondrae: When will they count as wins?
2015-02-05 06:50:42 Hagbard: Immediately of course. Opponents' timeouts are your wins. Otherwise nobody would ever lose, they could just time out when things look bad. Oh, but another thing: you get the rating points from the timeouted game, but the game count in the paranthesis is unchanged. It counts the number of completed games.
2015-02-05 06:59:22 Hagbard: - And so it's good practise to always complete games, because it's very important for statistics counts. (and annoying for the opponent to wait 15 days for a win).
2015-02-05 10:03:35 xerxes: Ref the timeout games and competitions. I think that if a player fails to complete a game in a competition, all his games should be expunged from the competition. It is unfair on those who have lost a game to a player who subsequently fails to complete his other games giving the other competitors wins that they might not have had.
2015-02-05 10:52:41 sqAree: A timeout is just a different way to resign a game. Certainly annoying for the opponents, yet it's a legal way to end a game. I mean, there are probably some games that have been resigned in spite of a winning position, which is essentially the same as timing out.
2015-02-05 11:16:35 xerxes: Yes, but in a competition I think it is rude to the other players to time out over 15 days rather than resign a game that you don't intend to finish. And someone who time outs 21 out of 24 games clearly hasn't taken the competition seriously and should have their results expunged.
2015-02-05 11:22:31 sqAree: And where do you want to draw the line? Should that also apply to a player with only one timeout (maybe even in a lost position)? I can see your point, however I don't see a fair way to fix this issue..
2015-02-05 11:48:46 Hagbard: My suggestion to draw the line is: A player who causes more than half of his games to time out.
2015-02-05 12:54:09 animals: Joins New Players' Tournament February, Saami Tablut 9x9
2015-02-05 13:35:21 animals: Maybe a player who times out should lose double points?
2015-02-05 19:50:54 Adam: This timeout thing is tricky. I suspect each disqualification case would need to be looked at by a referee. Suppose a strong player is playing 16 games, they win 9 easily, then decide not to continue with the tournament. Resigning or timing out. In the early rounds this should be a disqualification so that the results don't skew the progression.
2015-02-05 19:52:47 Adam: Unlikely situation I admit. But possible.
2015-02-05 20:11:54 Hagbard: And another timeout case: Player A disappears 16 days and then moves, player B in the meantime lost interest, disappeared and times out. But player A caused the timeout?
2015-02-05 21:00:21 mike0127: Joins New Players' Tournament February, Saami Tablut 9x9
2015-02-06 04:40:55 sqAree: Half the games seems fine because it's not possible to lose a tournament due to the timeout rule when you actually have won already. About the second timeout case: I don't see the point at all, player A is free to use all his time and it's ONLY player B who caused the timeout.
2015-02-06 06:28:25 Hagbard: A championship tournament rule: "A player who causes more than half of his Round 1 games to time out, cannot proceed to Round 2." would've disqualified DavBerd, arthur, taschenguger, scottdbarber and dansuno from Round 2, which clearly would've been a sane decision.
2015-02-06 06:58:11 Hagbard: What about animals' idea: "A player who times out loses double rating points" ?
2015-02-06 10:45:49 crust: To Hagbard: I like the idea of eliminating the worst time-outers, it would streamline the championship tournament.
2015-02-06 15:23:19 sqAree: No no, losing double rating points is a punishment completely unrelated to the offence. Removing a player from a tournament in case of more than half of max possible timeouts is a cool solution. His other games should be rated as usual.
2015-02-06 16:00:02 Hagbard: But it would be for any timeout, also ordinary games. To encourage fewer time outs. Could also be losing only 1.5 times the rating points.
2015-02-06 16:53:29 sqAree: People should play Hnefatafl because they enjoy Hnefatafl, not because they want to prevent losing virtual rating points.
2015-02-06 18:38:45 Hagbard: - got a point there...
2015-02-07 17:09:04 xerxes: On the subject of rating points - I'm playing a couple of games of Copenhagen as black at present. One of my opponents has a rating of 1183. If I win the prediction is +5, and if I lose it is -27. Seems reasonable. My other opponent has a rating of 1414, and the prediction is +1 for a win and -1 if I lose. Doesn't seem right to me, I thought I would get more points on the rating if I were to win against a higher-ranked player ?
2015-02-07 18:34:40 Hagbard: That's because the second opponent is a quite new player and then you win/lose less points.
2015-02-07 18:37:40 xerxes: Thanks Hagbard - that makes sense.
2015-02-07 19:18:54 Teondrae: When does that Febuary tournament start?
2015-02-07 19:25:57 Hagbard: Anytime when more of the Copenhagen tournament is completed. The Saami tablut is a rather different game, and it will probably be too difficult for new players to handle both Copenhagen and Saami at the same time.
2015-02-08 12:16:41 crust: Happy birthday to Copenhagen Rules Hnefatafl, three years old on the 2nd February!
2015-02-09 08:05:42 Hagbard: :) ! The forum shows; that was the day.
2015-02-11 01:18:19 Fireball: Joins New Players' Tournament February, Saami Tablut 9x9
2015-02-11 01:18:38 Fireball: Joins New Players' Tournament February, Saami Tablut 9x9
2015-02-13 19:39:14 Schachus: I believe there might be a bug in the time usage display in the games archive. For my white game with nath, I'm shown the following: Schachus / Nath. Tournament 32 Copenhagen Hnefatafl 11x11, 18 moves, 2015-02-13 00:04:39, ongoing (Schachus used 14.6 days of time buffer, limit 15 days) (Nath used 13.4 days of time buffer, limit 15 days) *** Warning *** Schachus used 14.6 days of time buffer (limit 15 days). *** Warning *** Nath used 13.4 days of time buffer (limit 15 days). My time seems to be right but his not, I'm sure he had much less used time, when I moved yesterday. Also, in the games List, there is no timeout warning shown for him(correctly so, but in contradiction to what the archive pages says).
2015-02-14 09:02:46 Schachus: Not it has been corrected(?) to 0,7 days
2015-02-14 09:57:04 Hagbard: No change made. It's on the todo-list that I'll have to check it some day.
2015-02-15 20:26:51 crust: Thoughts are with the people of Copenhagen
2015-02-15 20:36:37 Hagbard: Here is the same man a year ago hacking a knife in a random passenger in an S-train in Copenhagen: h t t p://denkorteavis.dk/2015/gerningsmanden-var-en-kriminel-fra-bandemiljoet/
2015-02-15 22:48:34 crust: Wow. What a loony.
2015-02-16 03:27:22 altti: makes me wonder why he was allowed free.
2015-02-16 08:57:46 crust: @World - more hnefatafl and less stabbing and shooting please, thanks
2015-02-16 09:26:51 Hagbard: @altti: h t t p s://w w w.youtube.com/watch?v=Oz8RjPAD2Jk
2015-02-16 23:17:56 altti: @ hagbard thank you ☺
2015-02-17 10:14:56 Hagbard: To the new players of the Saami tournament: Of course Altti isn't quite a new player but actually our best Saami player. So the real New Player winner of the tournament will of course be no. 2. Perhaps the new players can take the opportunity to be coached a bit by Altti and learn something about how to win the Saami tafl.
2015-02-23 04:37:15 teondrae: I want a Grand master trophy Tim. :) I worked hard for the last 4 months or so ive played to achieve this goal. :) hehehe.... Honestely hardest achievement ive done in my life for a goal that took the longest amount of time. Im feeling great over one game lol...
2015-02-23 04:39:18 Cantlose: Hey Hagbard?? How come we can not send challenges to other players? like i miss that idea. I think you could totally bring that option back but make it where the player that been challenged has to accept it before it is the games list of games??? Kinda a great idea i think!!!!? Check it out if you can please? and thnx
2015-02-23 07:32:23 sqAree: @Cantlose: It's possible to invite other players to games. The games start immediately, so they are refused by not doing any move within three days. Although there seems to be some random rating limit of 300 points difference max.
2015-02-23 08:12:56 crust: to Teondrae: OK, you deserve it; give me some time though :) Also I will need a name and address...
2015-02-23 08:26:42 Hagbard: @Cantlose: Tafl against other tafl players - Invite for a new game - More variants - Choose games and opponents
2015-02-23 20:53:37 Schachus: I dont think, there is a rating limit, at least there wasn't some time ago. I have been challenged by players more than 300 points below me in the past.
2015-02-23 22:17:18 Hagbard: There is, +/- 300 points as sqAree found out. But open invitations can be accepted by all players.
2015-02-23 22:56:06 teondrae: @crust okay so got an email and ill email address and name??
2015-02-24 00:18:51 crust: @Teondrae: firstname.lastname@example.org
2015-02-25 10:01:31 test1: Joins New Players' Tournament March, Sea battle tafl 9x9
2015-02-25 15:27:31 nath: I don't want to put any pressure at anybody, but the time limit as it is prevents me form playing any games. I just lost a game where I moved quite fast the last 10 moves in a position that can be won easily again. This isn't a game anymore, if I'm forced to move every day. I have other things to in my life.
2015-02-25 16:58:48 crust: to Nath; sorry you lost on time, that's a shame, as I would have lost. Should there be an option to play with no time limit at all? We definitely do not want to lose you as a player :(
2015-02-25 17:13:30 altti: I like the idea of suspending the time limit as an option with both players agreeing to it.
2015-02-25 18:02:43 crust: as long as it isn't part of a tournament; that could seriously inconvenience other players, who have not agreed to it
2015-02-25 18:04:41 Schachus: I have just gotten extra time in all my games compared to 1 hour ago. I had used 14,5 13,6 and 14,2 days respectively(so was close to timeout in all games). Now only the first game shows a warning (12,5 days used, the other two don't). Additionally, the archive page shows different values (for example 16,something in game 1 which would mean, I had already lost on time and is clearly wrong.) I was going to move in all games this evening to avoid loss on time. Are those 2 days taken away again, or can I afford to wait a little now?
2015-02-25 18:06:46 Hagbard: Grandmaster tournament only: Now 2 days per move plus 15 days buffer. And Nath's timeouted game is restored.
2015-02-25 18:11:27 Hagbard: @Schachus: I suppose it would be wise to move in the Schachus/Nath game where 12.5 days are already used.
2015-02-25 21:19:39 animals: Joins New Players' Tournament March, Sea battle tafl 9x9
2015-02-28 20:11:33 teondrae: Hagbard? Yes i wanna know a way i could challenge someone that is higher than me but i can only go so far up?? Am i able to request for a request to challenge schachus? I have been able to accomplish and beat The Famous Crust that took forever. Hes a great strong player. But i wanna play stronger now? Is that an option for me?
2015-02-28 20:31:24 Hagbard: sqAree is within reach and very strong. And you can hurry to accept open invitations from Schachus.
2015-02-28 20:33:58 teondrae: Schachus has no invitations up?? And i wanna play him one game thats it. i wanna be black and see if he is ablt to beat me lol
2015-02-28 21:13:20 sqAree: Well, with my current rating I'm no finally allowed to challenge the highest rated players but I remember this rating range annoyed me too when I was lower rated. What's the reason for that anyway?
2015-02-28 21:16:29 sqAree: I meant *now, not "no". Any my point is that those matches can be refused by the challenged players in any case.
2015-02-28 22:34:49 Hagbard: well, the full list is very long. But maybe this should be changed anyway?
2015-03-01 07:49:01 Hagbard: @teondrae: try again.
2015-03-01 21:59:33 teondrae: Thnx i can finally challenge others Thnx :) Thats a big improvement i think i can play others that play different styles i might lean more hehe
2015-03-02 00:44:46 cycologist: Joins New Players' Tournament March, Sea battle tafl 9x9
2015-03-02 14:25:10 Adam: æteondrae: Feel free to send me a copenhagen invite, though I prefer to play a double game, one as white, one as black.
2015-03-04 19:54:44 Hagbard: Signed in for New Players' Tournament March, Sea battle tafl 9x9: animals and cycologist
2015-03-07 04:03:41 odinsruleg8: Joins New Players' Tournament March, Sea battle tafl 9x9
2015-03-07 19:38:38 Hagbard: Xerxes won the New Players' tournament of Saami Tablut 9x9! Altti also participated, as coach. And Plantagenêt won the Magpie-1 test tournament.
2015-03-08 08:09:28 Hagbard: About next New Players' tournament, the Sea Battle 9x9: Only 3 beginners signed in so far. I think we should decide that you're a new player for about a year instead of a half, to get more players for the tournament.
2015-03-08 10:22:44 xerxes: Unfortunately I've played too many games !
2015-03-08 15:12:37 crust: to Xerxes; tell me about it :) I just finished my 2000th game on this site haha
2015-03-08 16:03:18 Hagbard: Congratulations to crust on 2000 tafl games!!
2015-03-08 16:11:35 crust: to Hagbard; thanks my friend, and as always, thank you for providing and maintaining this awesome site :)
2015-03-08 22:22:33 teondrae: Can we start another small Copanhageon 11x11 tournament? before this years big tournament??
2015-03-08 22:35:57 Hagbard: Problem is, there are still many tafl variants which need to be tested properly through test tournaments.
2015-03-09 21:51:04 teondrae: Ahh Can we have like on warmup tournament on the side before the big one? or nah??
2015-03-09 22:26:40 altti: @ crust how do you find the time? congrats ☺
2015-03-09 22:36:41 Hagbard: All our games rest of the year is one long warmup tournament...
2015-03-10 00:36:14 nath: I don't want more time in total for my games, but I want recharing time, so I can manage my time myself. E.g. I need the option to regain time if I am moving fast. I don't need more time in total as I said quite often.
2015-03-10 07:06:04 Hagbard: Brandubh: Notice that the king is captured against a corner square by one attacker.
2015-03-10 07:10:21 Hagbard: @nath: do 3 moves fast and you regain 1 day.
2015-03-10 08:19:49 Hagbard: I've searched for Fidchell rules. Could these be the rules? 7x7 board. 16 attackers against 8 defenders. King unarmed, captured from 4 sides and wins on edge.
2015-03-10 09:06:44 crust: to Hagbard, I have just posted what I have on Fidchell to the World Tafl Federation FB page, but I have to confess, I can't quite remember where I got these rules from.
2015-03-11 02:07:17 altti: the rules need to be CLEAR on variants.
2015-03-11 07:17:13 Hagbard: Brandubh (Tablut corner) 7x7: Same rules as Saami Tablut 9x9, except that the board size is 7x7 and the king wins in corner. NB. The king is captured against a corner square by one attacker.
2015-03-11 09:18:40 Adam: Perhaps the quick overview rules section could include separate listings for the 7x7 games? Rather than only mentioning brandubh as a version of tablut? I agree it's getting rather confusing again after this new wave of rule testing
2015-03-12 21:38:49 xerxes: Is there going to be a UK championship this year ?
2015-03-12 22:48:31 teondrae: Yeah i think there should be lke copanhageon tournaments. For each country to see whos the best in that country? Like i live in US so i compete against all US players for US title? because worldwide is te dominat title. Should make like a list of each countries top 5 players from each country that are active players?? be awesome to see that addition to the website??
2015-03-12 23:59:29 sqAree: Don't you think the game is played by too few players to make national championships a worthy addition to a World Championship?
2015-03-13 01:16:00 laxhax: Joins New Players' Tournament March, Sea battle tafl 9x9
2015-03-13 07:29:00 Hagbard: @Adam: while we're testing the lot, the overview of the 7x7 games is the page "Rules of 7x7 boards", linked to from the Rules page, and now also linked to from the Quick Overview page.
2015-03-13 07:39:01 Hagbard: @teondrae: At the moment for countries with five players: Germany: 1. nath, 2. Schachus, 3. arne64, 4. sqAree, 5. Unterwichtel. UK: 1 crust, 2 herjan, 3 docbullen, 4 xerxes, 5 cyningstan. USA: 1 duhawk93, 2 altti, 3 Sigurd, 4 Watson, 5 Helfrich.
2015-03-13 19:18:11 teondrae: Could we do a tourn ament to decide those?
2015-03-13 23:25:51 Hagbard: @teondrae: you mean a USA tournament?
2015-03-14 00:20:44 altti: there are tournaments in fetlar and other places in the world. I found out about them from this site.
2015-03-14 03:48:04 Sigurd: @Hagbard: Can you register me for the large forum? My name & email are same as small forum/game login. Registration request was submitted back on 2014/12/27
2015-03-14 06:55:09 Hagbard: @Sigurd: after the web hotel updated to a new php version some time ago, it has not been possible to neither register nor log in to the large forum, but all messages already there can be read. I'm worried that it's too risky to touch the large forum in order to try to repair it. It's safer to some day create a forum2 for new messages.
2015-03-14 08:14:39 test1: Joins the USA Tournament April, Copenhagen 11x11
2015-03-14 17:26:51 StudyTafl: Joins the USA Tournament April, Copenhagen 11x11
2015-03-14 17:27:28 teondrae: Okay awesome. Thnx Hagbard ur the best! :)
2015-03-14 20:59:46 Hagbard: The large forum is working, but I'm afraid that you'll have to register again.
2015-03-14 22:14:25 Sigurd: @Hagbard: Resubmitted, thanks.
2015-03-15 10:01:51 altti: Joins the USA Tournament April, Copenhagen 11x11
2015-03-15 14:46:11 crust: To Hagbard; thanks for the separate ratings breakdown by game variant - i knew Adam would be Der Berserkermeister!
2015-03-16 18:24:07 Chuck Ward: Joins the USA Tournament April, Copenhagen 11x11
2015-03-16 21:56:55 Hagbard: In some ways the recalculated separate-ratings are more accurate.
2015-03-17 00:08:37 teondrae: I have an idea.. Like always haha.. Hagbard what if there was a theme song to tafl? while we wait on someones move or while you make a move?? How cool would that be?
2015-03-17 00:23:58 Hagbard: Very cool h t t p s://w w w.youtube.com/watch?v=0k01zY822dk h t t p s://w w w.youtube.com/watch?v=cu6z-zYNfQM
2015-03-17 00:36:11 teondrae: That is not a bad theme song to play in th background... lol
2015-03-17 00:38:32 teondrae: Hagbard Do you use any advert? just wandering
2015-03-17 00:39:17 teondrae: advertisement**** typo
2015-03-17 01:35:39 teondrae: Everyone look at me and crust last game on how i won in the last like 2 moves that occurred we were both surprised that could even happen.... Anyone know if thats not suppose to happen or if it is? i got the win somehow.. Confused :(
2015-03-17 01:58:43 crust: Yes, I osted on WTF page about it! It was very funny. Hagbard, please have a quick look and see if you think it's unexpected too; I wonder if we've found a slight problem with the shieldwall subroutine...
2015-03-17 02:01:48 teondrae: lol its a new a trick to be able to beat someone at tafl new stragtdie unraveled hahah.... :)
2015-03-17 02:07:02 crust: *posted
2015-03-17 03:38:38 vonraider: Joins the USA Tournament April, Copenhagen 11x11
2015-03-17 06:57:40 Hagbard: @teondrae: no advertisements. Except on a couple of rarely used pages (games against the computer) for testing. But in my opinion advertising does't work well enough to bother our users with advertisements.
2015-03-17 07:10:25 Hagbard: @teondrae/crust: very amusing! Never saw that one before, but it's supposed to work that way. The white shieldwall men are killed as usual, except the king which must be captured and not killed, and to that he is on the edge where he cannot even be captured (except for cases where all other whites are killed so that white cannot move anymore at all).
2015-03-17 08:29:36 Hagbard: Grand Master Tournament: Nath won!
2015-03-17 08:59:06 crust: Thanks Hagbard; in that case I need to re-write my section on shieldwalling. It's worth losing a game, to learn this!! :)
2015-03-17 14:14:39 altti: that's good to know. ill need to keep that move in mind.
2015-03-17 16:12:32 Fairland: What a strategy!!! Although implementing it would be difficult unless the opponent forgets about the rule. I will let my Tafl club members know about this. They have also been play testing a Copenhagen amendment proposes by plantagenêt, but I will let him explain it to you so I don't mess it up.
2015-03-17 17:36:13 teondrae: Since i came up with this move can i name it? Ive always wanted to name something unique?? Like the Guotine is awesome name if i spelled it right hahah. But yeah am i able to name that move??
2015-03-17 20:19:23 crust: I'm not convinced either of us came up with it, also I'm not convinced it IS a strategy, or even a tactic - just an unusual instance of the shieldwall attack. Come up with an opening, a gambit, or a defence we haven't seen much before, describe it, and you might get to name that :)
2015-03-17 20:58:35 teondrae: Hagbard is there any way we could advertise thise site better? i been tryying to let people know about it but they dont last long on here... :(
2015-03-17 21:08:02 Hagbard: Oh that's what you meant by advertising. The site has a fine position in Google. Also, Millar and Walker kindly promote the site from their sites. As did Gralla in several newspaper articles. In old times I registered it in many internet directories (they don't exist anymore). Why don't your friends last long here?
2015-03-17 21:14:23 teondrae: Idk they just dont get into the game like i do.. But i really want more people actively playing lol... on boring days i love to play tafl when im not doing anything else
2015-03-17 21:15:40 teondrae: Joins the USA Tournament April, Copenhagen 11x11
2015-03-17 21:16:23 teondrae: Can u unregister studytafl from the tournament sorry about that lol... :(
2015-03-17 21:38:12 Hagbard: Board games are a very classic mind excercise and recreation, known through all human existence from prehistoric times. It can, however, be a great challenge to catch the attention of modern time humans, especially young people, today in the age of high speed video games and the abundance of entertainment in TV and elsewhere, I imagine. But I may be wrong.
2015-03-17 22:44:33 crust: Completed two games of Fidchell with Test3, both easy victories for black. I strongly suspect the game is unbalanced in favour of black, with so many pieces on a 7x7 board. Possibly arming the king might help.
2015-03-17 23:39:41 Hagbard: I had the same experience with Fidchell. But are these not the rules which are found around at various sources?
2015-03-18 01:34:00 crust: Yes I think so... but not much evidence that they have been play tested. Black starts the game with a near-complete encirclement, and controls so much of the edge already, that htey would have to play very badly indeed to lose. Would it be worthwhile and/or possible to try with an armed king?
2015-03-18 05:24:31 Sigurd: @teondrae & @Hagbard: I've been promoting the site as well. I've seen people I know sign up, but not really drawn in enough. I think the less than two moves cancellation may be too short. Is it 2 or 3 days currently?
2015-03-18 07:12:32 Hagbard: 3 days of inactivity (for the first 2 x 2 moves). By the way, yesterday I came across a guidance on how to get the java applet running again in a Microsoft Windows machine (playing against the computer). Even on my own computer this has not worked for a very long time, since the many security tightenings against Java. Perhaps it's been a drawback that for many newcomers it's not been possible to try out the game against the computer for a start.
2015-03-18 08:29:55 Hagbard: @teondrae: did you have a name in mind for the extraordinary shieldwall event?
2015-03-18 09:35:19 Adam: I agree with Crust about the Fidchell. A fully armed king with 4 side king capture and edge escape might make an entertaining game. Certainly worth a try. But its a busy board!
2015-03-18 13:03:54 Adam: @Hagbard - that's a convincing argument. I think newcomers enjoy a few games against the computer to see if they like the game. Entering into a correspondence game is frankly a dreadful way to learn if one has never even tried it before. Any chance of posting the fix so that people are able to try against the computer more easily?
2015-03-18 13:06:24 Adam: @ Hagbard: I just tried the vs computer on firefox and safari on my mac and it crashed both browsers.
2015-03-18 13:10:03 Hagbard: I added the guidance to the computer game pages: h t t p://aagenielsen.dk/hnefatafl_white9.php
2015-03-18 14:15:04 Adam: As soon as I click on the link icon for a vs computer game (including white9x9)the browser crashes trying to open the page. So all I see is a white page.
2015-03-18 14:18:19 Hagbard: I saw the same thing today with other pages. I guess it's a busy webserver.
2015-03-18 14:28:52 Adam: I'll try later and report back. I'm having to probs on other pages on the site though.
2015-03-18 17:39:28 Adam: @teondrae: I think naming the shield wall fail is a great idea. We still haven't established any rules for such naming, so make a suggestion and see if it sticks. 'crusts bane' springs to mind.
2015-03-18 17:40:50 Adam: @Hagbard : typo: 'I'm having no probs' it should have said.
2015-03-18 19:16:22 crust: my suggestion: "The Gorge of Infinite Peril"
2015-03-18 20:08:35 Teondrae: I dont know ill think about a name be awhile be for i decide :)
2015-03-19 01:46:46 chuck ward: Joins the USA Tournament April, Copenhagen 11x11
2015-03-19 11:49:44 mmagari: Joins the USA Tournament April, Copenhagen 11x11
2015-03-19 12:26:30 Hagbard: The large forum is open for registering of users for a couple of weeks. After that it will be closed, because it's flooded by automatic spam robots registering day and night as usual.
2015-03-19 15:20:01 crust: special series on Shieldwalling, including explosive new discoveries, starting on the World Tafl Federation facebook page
2015-03-19 21:32:10 Patterson: Joins the USA Tournament April, Copenhagen 11x11
2015-03-20 06:20:11 Hagbard: The solar eclipse today: if the sun shines through a keyhole or a crack or the like, the hole will throw a picture of the sun. In case of a crack, you can cover some of it to leave a hole.
2015-03-20 08:29:53 Adam: It seems picture files posted in the forum have vanished.?
2015-03-20 14:08:47 crust: Also one of my comments has been attributed to Adam. Luckily it wasn't one of my silly ones.
2015-03-20 14:11:18 Hagbard: which is the first unquoted sentence?
2015-03-20 14:52:42 crust: I haven't been through the whole lot, but I did notice that the first comment in the "Hnefatafl and the quest for balance" thread (under "Other") was attributed to Adam. And I'm certain it was me. ;)
2015-03-20 15:00:28 Hagbard: Corrected. Just below is a link to the full contents of the old forum.
2015-03-20 15:01:43 crust: To Hagbard: Great! That's another beer I owe you!
2015-03-20 17:06:06 torc: Joins the USA Tournament April, Copenhagen 11x11
2015-03-20 17:07:11 torc: Joins the USA Tournament April, Copenhagen 11x11
2015-03-20 17:45:01 Patterson: Does the system still send email notification when moves are made?
2015-03-20 17:50:36 Hagbard: Yes, you can turn it on or off as you wish
2015-03-20 19:06:08 Hagbard: About forum attachments: sorry, I've searched everywhere. I hope the authors still have them, then they can be re-added to the messages.
2015-03-20 19:08:06 Hagbard: Signed in for the USA tournament till now: altti, Chuck Ward, vonraider, teondrae, Patterson, torc
2015-03-20 19:41:08 Sigurd: @Hagbard: Can the email notification be changed to include notifications for new started games?
2015-03-20 22:04:54 Teondrae: I want Fairland to also sign up for the USA tournament.. He taught me this and i wanna see our ranks :)
2015-03-20 22:48:01 Patterson: Okay. I don't recall turning it off but I am not getting them. I will toggle it and see if that resets it. Thanks.
2015-03-21 07:04:44 Hagbard: About old forum: if you miss some notes very much, let me know, they can still be transferred to the new forum.
2015-03-21 07:11:39 Hagbard: @Sigurd: on the todo list.
2015-03-21 07:55:26 Hagbard: Registered to the large forum: Hagbard, Sigurd, cyningstan, animals, Adam.
2015-03-21 20:55:03 sqAree: Registered to the large forum once again. About the shieldwall fail: I agree it's funny but I wonder if there is any tactical use of this? In the given situation black could have just moved othe pieces to ensure victory and I suspect this will be the case in most if not all positions. So yes, I'd say remove this rule. The fact that no one was aware of this before only points out the lack of clarity of the current rules. More logical would be (a) the shieldwall capture doesn't happen at all or (b) the king can in fact be captured at the edge. I slightly prefer (a) though.
2015-03-21 20:57:27 sqAree: Is it already possible to post in the large forum by the way?
2015-03-21 22:13:09 Teondrae: King should not be captured on sides then black would have an advantage but, i think shieldwalls should not be accured in my opion with 3 or more ieces captured at once.. But if its only 2 pieces captured yes i think that is legal! my opinion.....
2015-03-21 23:00:10 Hagbard: @sqAree: yes the large forum is open for use.
2015-03-21 23:02:17 Teondrae: Hagbard what do you think about reducing the shieldwall only two pieces can be captured from the side???
2015-03-21 23:09:21 Hagbard: Frankly speaking, I do like the shieldwall the way it is.
2015-03-21 23:11:20 Teondrae: Well white can basically shieldwall and win from creating a fort right after that i dont think thats really fair if your black
2015-03-21 23:22:54 Hagbard: Maybe you're right, or maybe it's not so easy as it seems. If it's easy, someone could demonstrate such an easy win? Notice that the shieldwall attacking pieces are also vulnerable during the build-up, because each of them has to stand next to a defending piece and can be captured there long before the attack succeeds.
2015-03-21 23:26:24 sqAree: It's good that white can create the fort after shieldwalling.. This way we have a nice connection between edge fort and shieldwalling and I don't think it's imbalanced.. I was just questioning the part about a shieldwall capture capturing only some pieces of the bracketed ones.. Not really consistent imho. And of no use really.
2015-03-21 23:37:22 Hagbard: All shieldwalled pieces are killed - with a single exception: the king. The king cannot be killed, only captured. And captured is: 4 attackers in the king's 4 neighbouring squares. In other cases where the king plus some of his men are surrounded, he is also not captured. Only when surrounded on neighbouring squares.
2015-03-21 23:45:42 Hagbard: Also, the shieldwall rule is not our invention. It's described in a German Hnefatafl site, and it's also mentioned in a scientific article on an artificial intelligence project using Hnefatafl as a study case. We just added this small change to the rule, that a forbidden square can take part in the capture.
2015-03-21 23:54:02 sqAree: Well, I don't have a strong opinion about this anyway.. If this mechanics has no use, we can as well keep it right? ^^ But about other critique of the rules I really want some people to investigate my long ago post in the large forum. :)
2015-03-22 00:01:58 Hagbard: yes, this is a point still waiting for analysis, the sqAree forum message about sharpening the wording of the Copenhagen rules.
2015-03-22 01:31:44 crust: I'm happy for the shieldwall rules t stay as they are; it's funny that I made a wrong assumption about them in this rare case, but in fact Hagbard knew better.. I think you could logically justify either outcome of a mixed shieldwall group (either none of the pieces are captured, or just the warriors and not the king are captured); and I quite agree that this needs to be stated in the rules. It sounds like nobody else has encountered this situation before, so clearly we haven't seen everything yet. As to the other question, whether it's ok to go directly from shieldwalling to winning edge fort, I say why not? It's not as easy as you might think; black usually has some way of preventing the fort, if he takes precautions early enough.
2015-03-22 02:21:58 altti: we've been playing Copenhagen for a few years now and it was always a question of balance. it has come to be close to balanced but the test is far from complete as number of games hasn't come near to a statistically solid representation. Nath is our resident mathematician perhaps he could expound on this.
2015-03-22 04:20:48 duhawk93: Joins the USA Tournament April, Copenhagen 11x11
2015-03-22 04:23:49 duhawk93: Joins the USA Tournament April, Copenhagen 11x11
2015-03-22 10:45:04 xerxes: Ref the Shieldwall discussion: What happened does seem logical to me - the Shieldwall has been correctly set-up, but the King cannot be captured unless surrounded, which in this case he is not. One other interesting point is that had Crust not been so philanthropic in continuing with the move, rather than backing out and making a different one, we wouldn't have the example to discuss, so firstly, 'hats off' to Crust. Secondly, this is a good example of something that has been bothering me about the online game, in that the player making a move sees the result of it before they finalise it - ie pieces that would be captured are shown being taken before 'send move' is selected; in a face-to-face game the player would have to make the move, then remove the pieces they thought they was allowed to capture (as in real chess), and having made the move would not be able to back out if they had misunderstood the result of the move they had made. So, in this case, Crust made a move without fully realising the consequences, but could have changed it after he realised his mistake - that wouldn't be allowed to happen in a face-to face game.
2015-03-22 11:13:55 Hagbard: sqAree and Sigurd won the new players' Copenhagen Hnefatafl tournament! (both 23 points out of 24 possible)
2015-03-22 12:18:01 crust: Congratulations both Sigurd and sqAree!
2015-03-22 16:48:54 Fairland: Joins the USA Tournament April, Copenhagen 11x11
2015-03-23 09:47:17 Hagbard: Congratulations to Plantagenêt who tops the rating list now!
2015-03-23 20:15:41 Adam: I see no reason to alter the shield wall rule, but by all means it and other rules can be written more clearly to avoid confusions. The copehnahegn rules are a good many years younger than football's offside rule which still cause confusion for many.
2015-03-24 07:36:56 Hagbard: Registered to the large forum: Hagbard, Sigurd, cyningstan, animals, Adam, crust, Xerxes, Patterson, sqAree. The plan is to close the large forum April 1st for this simple registering because of spam robots. After that it's opened for new registering when needed, on request in this small forum.
2015-03-26 08:44:41 Hagbard: Duhawk93 won the Magpie test tournament!
2015-03-27 09:13:57 crust: Well done Duhawk93, good work!!
2015-03-29 10:00:40 Hagbard: Signed in for the USA tournament till now: altti, Chuck Ward, vonraider, teondrae, Patterson, torc, duhawk93, Fairland
2015-03-31 11:37:50 Adam: Now posted in the 'big' forum - my proposal for berserk alea. Please take a look, comments and thoughts welcome!
2015-04-10 09:24:04 Hagbard: The Italians want an Italian National Hnefatafl Tournament, too, it's started now. UK and Germany are big tafl countries, but the World Champion is already German, and the UK National Champion is already found at Sutton Hoo.
2015-04-10 10:56:05 xerxes: Problem with Sutton Hoo for the UK Championship is that not everyone can get there. At east an on-line championship gives everyone a chance to enter. I wondered whether a championship comprising of two formats, say Copenhagen and Saami, with the scores added together, would work ?
2015-04-10 15:04:01 crust: we could have a UK on-line championship too; why not? The more tournaments, the better! Also, how about a tafl triathlon, with each participant competing in 3 events, (e.g. copenhagen, saami tablut and brandub?)
2015-04-10 15:30:48 Hagbard: I believe that the UK is not big enough for two National Champions! But that's just my opinion. I like the triathlon idea, and xerxes' and Crust's choice of variants. The Saami is very historically correct, from our investigations. Brandbubh is very promising, too. Copenhagen is the popular strong king game with a few details polished up. So far we still have no obvious choice of Sea Battle.
2015-04-10 15:43:54 crust: maybe one of the three events should feature the unarmed king
2015-04-10 15:51:57 Hagbard: Most promising Sea Battle at the moment seems to be Sea battle tafl 13x13 (David Parlett setup). The balance looks fine, but it has so far been tested only by Crust, against many opponents. From my experience, when Crust tests a variant, it turns out to be well balanced - reason is that Crust wins as white as well as black in any game... ;) (joking)
2015-04-10 15:56:55 Hagbard: - if Sea Battle is one of the three, then I suggest that it replaces the Copenhagen, so that it's a triathlon of "other variants".
2015-04-10 16:14:32 crust: yes that would be a great idea, with Parlett Sea Battle 13x13, saami tablut and brandub we've got 3 different board sizes and 3 different kings (unarmed/4 side capture/edge, armed/2 side capture/edge and armed/2-side capture/corner). Worth a try! I am very fond of the parlett sea-battle 13x13, so I am probably biased :)
2015-04-10 21:09:03 test1: Joins the tafl triathlon May
2015-04-10 23:19:01 crust: Joins the tafl triathlon May
2015-04-11 00:23:30 Patterson: Joins the tafl triathlon May
2015-04-11 10:54:48 xerxes: Joins the tafl triathlon May
2015-04-11 14:26:01 cyningstan: Joins the tafl triathlon May
2015-04-11 15:12:36 animals: Joins the tafl triathlon May
2015-04-11 19:35:14 vonraider: Joins the tafl triathlon May
2015-04-12 14:55:09 Kratzer: Joins the tafl triathlon May
2015-04-12 20:30:14 persoreille: Joins the tafl triathlon May
2015-04-13 17:50:28 Sybil: Joins the tafl triathlon May
2015-04-13 17:50:50 sybil: Joins the tafl triathlon May
2015-04-14 20:34:59 docbullen: Joins the tafl triathlon May
2015-04-14 20:35:18 docbullen: Bring it on
2015-04-14 22:09:58 crust: No you bring it!
2015-04-18 05:52:57 duhawk93: Joins the tafl triathlon May
2015-04-18 09:36:01 tonythebook: Joins the tafl triathlon May
2015-04-18 09:36:09 tonythebook: Joins the tafl triathlon May
2015-04-18 11:19:37 crust: uh-oh... Duhawk93 and Tonythebook have joined... now I'm scared...
2015-04-19 02:58:27 Brynhild: Joins the tafl triathlon May
2015-04-19 02:59:41 Brynhild: Joins the tafl triathlon May
2015-04-19 03:00:32 Brynhild: I clicked to find more information, I will not be playing.
2015-04-19 16:05:27 crust: to Brynhild: did you find the info you were looking for? Can I help at all?
2015-04-19 21:23:46 test1: Joins the tafl triathlon May
2015-04-19 21:34:29 Hagbard: @Ric Snead: I heard about some error message from the sign in to the triathlon. Which alias would you want to use?
2015-04-20 15:06:03 AreVidar: Joins the tafl triathlon May
2015-04-22 12:57:48 matematician: Joins the tafl triathlon May
2015-04-22 13:00:41 matematician: Joins the tafl triathlon May
2015-04-23 08:19:21 Epoc: Joins the tafl triathlon May
2015-04-26 21:29:11 Sybil: Joins the tafl triathlon May
2015-04-26 21:29:24 Sybil: Joins the tafl triathlon May
2015-04-26 23:18:43 docbullen: Joins the tafl triathlon May
2015-04-27 18:20:11 Fairland: So how is the U.S.A. tournament going? there is no review in the tournaments page.
2015-04-27 18:44:12 crust: to Fairland: I will be doing an update for the World Tafl Federation Facebook page :)
2015-04-28 15:04:45 crust: to fairland: I may have misunderstood your question - the USA tournament is featured on Aage's tournaments page here, but it is not titled as "USA tournament" - just "copenhagen 11x11" - but you can recognize it by the list of participants
2015-04-28 16:01:21 crust: to hagbard: is there a maximum number of moves that can be recorded in the archive? I had a marathon game against Docbullen, and the end game is missing - it only has the first 255 moves! I wanted to use it for an article :(
2015-04-29 02:07:57 fairland: Great! Thanks.
2015-04-29 16:28:29 Hagbard: @crust: no, that was certainly not intended, sorry. It's corrected now. And you were the one to discover this bug - 255 moves!
2015-04-29 17:07:28 crust: to Hagbard; yes, actually it was quite a bit longer - I would say at least 300 moves, as the whole final phase of the game where I swept a cordon across the board is missing. It really was an epic game, like a 5-act opera or something. I suppose the last bit is lost forever?
2015-04-29 17:29:43 Hagbard: Unfortunately it is. Only the final board position is preserved.
2015-04-29 18:25:40 crust: Hagbard, ok, thanks for looking into it! :)
2015-04-29 19:14:33 Hagbard: Games archive, search crust, choose List (not Replay) and you'll have the final board position.
2015-04-29 21:38:33 crust: to Hagbard: Thanks! That is very useful :)
2015-04-30 04:27:26 altti: Joins the tafl triathlon May
2015-04-30 07:00:27 Hagbard: Signed in for triathlon: crust, Patterson, xerxes, cyningstan, animals, vonraider, Kratzer, Sybil, docbullen, duhawk93, tonythebook, AreVidar, matematician, Epoc, altti Soon to start.
2015-05-02 17:40:45 docbullen: Joins the tafl triathlon May
2015-05-02 17:40:49 docbullen: Joins the tafl triathlon May
2015-05-02 17:41:09 docbullen: Joins the tafl triathlon May
2015-05-02 21:51:19 Hagbard: Crust won the Brandubh tournament, congratulations!
2015-05-02 23:29:57 Patterson: Congrats Crust!
2015-05-03 12:56:53 cyningstan: Am I misreading the measured tafl balance table, or is Brandubh placed out of order?
2015-05-03 17:10:41 Fairland: I am just going to throw my support in for the tafl triathalon! I am not playing in it because-as those who play me know- I am focusing exclusively on Copenhägen tafl to lock in and perfect my strategy. But I do think it is an epic idea and I can't wait to follow it!
2015-05-03 17:17:54 Hagbard: @Cyningstan: Brandubh balance will be recalculated soon, now that the test tournament is completed. As for the triathlon, it's awaiting a little bit longer, not to disturb the important USA and Italian tournaments which have still many games running.
2015-05-03 19:54:19 Adam: Regarding the balance table, what are the numbers in brackets next to the number of games played?
2015-05-03 20:32:59 Hagbard: That's the number of different players of those games.
2015-05-03 20:44:25 Adam: Interesting. Am I right in understanding Copenhagen to slightly favour white wins? I only ask because I have heard two of our strongest players declare that Copenhagen favours black. Could we see a statistic for Copenhagen games between the top six players, maybe excluding their earliest games to allow for beginners errors?
2015-05-03 21:01:30 Hagbard: It's already clear that in games between top players rated above 1600, the Copenhagen balance is measured as +1.37. That is, a slight favouring of white.
2015-05-03 23:51:56 crust: to Hagbard and Patterson, thank you!
2015-05-04 11:51:39 Hagbard: Updated Brandubh balance: +1.08!
2015-05-04 18:39:42 crust: To Hagbard: That is an impressively well-balanced game!
2015-05-04 22:55:25 Adam: @Hagbard: I agree that is very clear. But it would interesting to look at the stats for players above 1800, just to see if the balance tips away from white.
2015-05-04 22:59:39 Adam: @Crust: better than chess! (average 1.17), but then 66 games isn't a huge sample. A very promising start though for a worthy 7x7 variant.
2015-05-04 23:40:03 Hagbard: 253 games and 25 players.
2015-05-04 23:44:34 Adam: Oops. Quite right, I was looking at the wrong column! Well that is very impressive game balance.
2015-05-05 17:12:54 Kratzer: Joins the tafl triathlon May
2015-05-05 18:38:39 OdinHimself: Joins the tafl triathlon May
2015-05-08 16:06:54 Plantagenêt: @Hagbard: I propose a new version: Copenhagen rules + throne always white friendly + black can't cross over the throne. I think that this version will be more balanced.
2015-05-08 17:39:22 Hagbard: @Plantagenêt: There's no doubt that your idea will work fine. Whatever the balance, it will no doubt be within the acceptable range around 1. However, we've come about to standardize a number of rule details, so that those details are the same in every variant, which we use. In the sole existing, thorough historical description of a tafl rule set, the description in the Linné diary, the throne is hostile to everybody except when occupied by the king, and everybody can pass through the throne but only the king can stop on the throne. So, since these are the Linné rules, for simplicity we use these details in every variant with a throne.
2015-05-08 19:08:11 Plantagenêt: @Hagbard: But there's a big problem... Copenhagen version isn't balanced enough for white! That's why I propose this version... and even...I don't find my own version's offer balanced enough but I can be satisfied with this one (the new version's offer).
2015-05-08 19:26:03 crust: just been looking at archived games of schachus, crust, plantagenet and Nath (top 4 players), with the following results: Plantagenet v Schachus 3:4 (black wins:white wins) Plantagenet v Nath 4:2 Schachus v Nath 3:7 Schachus v crust 4:6 Crust v Nath 15:10 Crust v Plantagenet 8:7 Total 37:36 (black wins: white wins). Can anybody tell me what the problem is? Looks fairly well balanced to me.
2015-05-08 19:41:56 Adam: Interesting. That's fits well with what the larger statistics hint at, where we see white having a greater advantage, 1.43, when all full copenhagen matches are counted, and less of an advantage, 1.36, for stronger players full matches. Taking the top 4 players, its very few games, but 37:36 is as near to 1 (perfect balance) as makes no odds. It's conceivable that if everyone was as good as plantagenet, or if lots of clones of plantagenent played a tournament, that black might be slightly favoured. But presumably some of the plantagenets would develop new white strategies to cope. And I hope that sounds absurd, because my point is that game balance cannot ever be based on one players experience.
2015-05-10 00:19:29 crust: Having said that, if it turns out that there is a problem in the game balance, I would welcome suggestions such as Plantagenet's as to how to fix it. We all know that the game balance changes as players improve their skills, and nobody disputes the fact that Plantagenet plays at the highest level of skill. So there certainly could be something I'm not seeing. However, if white is so disadvantaged, why does this not appear in the game results?
2015-05-10 02:39:29 altti: I like the option of trying a new variant. it wont replace the existing Copenhagen rule set.
2015-05-11 20:10:33 matematician: Joins the tafl triathlon May
2015-05-11 20:56:39 Adam: I like the expression 'if it isn't broken, don't fix it'. We should continue playing it as it is, all of us learning by challenging stronger players, until any imbalance in favour of black reveals itself in the stats.
2015-05-14 09:43:23 xerxes: I agree with Adam. There are a lot of variants now, and it would be worth letting them settle down and seeing what is popular and where there is a real (significant) imbalance. Besides, in the tournaments we tend to play a game as white and a game as black, so if one colour does have an advantage it encourages we weaker players to think that on occasion we just might get a point off a stronger player!
2015-05-15 10:32:14 crust: To Satchan, Hello, are you having difficulties? it's your move.
2015-05-15 14:33:18 Hagbard: Triathlon: players who time out in more than half of their games, do not continue to the next level.
2015-05-15 19:01:35 OdinHimself: I have a question. How can I send private messages to other users. For example to Hagbard.
2015-05-15 19:03:50 Hagbard: I saw it
2015-05-15 19:06:58 Hagbard: Or else, Plantagenêt uses the trick to start a game against some other player, not to play the game but to speak with him in the game chat.
2015-05-16 05:34:47 OdinHimself: So no private messages here, only forum chat and game chat. Well, seems like I joined the tournament by accident. What are my options to get out of it?
2015-05-16 07:34:46 Hagbard: No problem. Anybody else leaving the triathlon?
2015-05-16 15:02:26 OdinHimself: Thank you, and sorry about the inconvenience.
2015-05-18 17:55:36 Kratzer: Is there going to be an overview of the ongoing tournament? Or could it be that there is one and I just don't see it?
2015-05-18 17:56:16 Kratzer: Ha, found it! Sorry.
2015-05-19 11:14:49 Hagbard: We have a USA National Champion 2015: "Altti", New York, USA. No. 2 etc. are still indefinite.
2015-05-19 14:50:35 crust: Congratulations Altti!
2015-05-20 19:00:53 Fairland: Congrats Altti!
2015-05-22 00:52:14 altti: thanks, but I think duhawk timing out gave an unfair advantage.
2015-05-22 01:19:52 crust: a win by time-out is still a win! ;)
2015-05-22 02:21:15 Fairland: I think a few surprise losses on Altti's part more than offset that advantage. Altti clearly wins because he is a superior player and I say a well deserved Hnefatafl champion of these United States! 🏆
2015-05-23 17:29:54 Chuck Ward: It was fun!!! Had a blast and it really helped me learn Copenhagen rules.. I felt really dumb about some of the mistakes I made with not knowing such rules., But like I said the tournament was fun Congratulations Atti
2015-05-26 17:04:40 crust: To Hagbard: A few players have mentioned to me that they would like a reminder on their brandub game page, that the corner is hostile, so the king can be captured by one enemy when he is on the square next to it. Would it be possible to add this in, where it says "king wins at corner, captured on 2 sides" ...??
2015-05-29 09:51:12 Hagbard: It's a general rule. On the page "Quick overview of tafl variants" is written "General for all variants: Restricted squares are hostile. (Except: if occupied by the king it's hostile only against attackers.)"
2015-05-29 10:00:46 Hagbard: - but I can see the problem that on the Rules page about Brandubh and 7x7 games it should also be mentioned!
2015-05-29 10:07:23 Hagbard: No, it is already.
2015-05-29 15:14:15 crust: I guess Brandub is unusual because it's the only corner tafl variant with the king captured on 2 sides, so that danger for the king is unique to Brandub. That's why it might be worth mentioning on the same page as the board, especially for casual players or those with a lot of different versions on the go simultaneously
2015-05-29 21:19:27 Adam: No harm in having a reminder. But its pretty logical, two man king capture means capture against a corner square with one man. Berserk is the same when capturing with a commander as the king can be captured by two commanders. Though in both cases I believe the the centre throne cannot be used to capture against with a single warrior/commander.
2015-05-29 21:26:14 Adam: @Hagbard - just checking, as per berserk rule 11, the king cannot be captured even by two commanders while adjacent to the throne, correct?
2015-05-30 00:12:05 Hagbard: Yes, correct.
2015-05-31 09:26:35 Hagbard: We have an Italian National Hnefatafl Champion 2015: Epoc!
2015-05-31 09:58:08 Fairland: Complementi epoc!
2015-05-31 21:41:55 fairland: My wife had our second baby yesterday. A new future tafl player to be sure!
2015-05-31 22:54:39 Hagbard: Congratulations with the new member of the family, Fairland! Very lucky that you're not in the triathlon, a busy time ahead elsewhere.
2015-05-31 23:21:55 crust: congratulations Fairland (and Mrs. Fairland) on the baby!
2015-06-01 04:22:34 altti: congrats Fairland and the Mrs. and Epoc
2015-06-01 17:58:27 xerxes: Congratulations Fairland and Mrs Fairland. I hope you have started work on a mini-tafl board !
2015-06-02 11:19:15 Hagbard: Still one game left in the USA tournament, but the score is settled now: 1. altti 2. duhawk93 3. chuck ward 4. Fairland 5. vonraider 6. Patterson
2015-06-05 03:08:18 altti: will the second event of the triathilon be starting soon?
2015-06-05 08:37:22 Hagbard: In a few days, when it's certain who'll continue. It looks like Sybil and Patterson left, and in a few days we know.
2015-06-07 09:04:46 Hagbard: Crust won the Tablut 13x13 (David Parlett) test tournament.
2015-06-07 10:42:06 crust: yeeha
2015-06-07 15:42:27 Hagbard: Special benefit to the NUMBER ONE on the rating list, Plantagenet Hnefatafl: Copenhagen rules + throne always white friendly + black can't cross over the throne.
2015-06-07 20:33:09 Adam: So, Copenhagen stats show clearly that the game is remarkably well balanced over a large number of games (over 2000 games, with 500+ games between experienced players), showing a slight advantage to white which diminishes with player experience, but white maintains an advantage in the stats. This new version adds to whites advantage. Can Plantagenet explain the logic in disadvantaging black and making the game rules more complicated, beyond it being for more balanced for Plantagenet vs Plantagenet games? Very curious to hear the reasoning.
2015-06-07 20:33:46 Adam: by the way, please correct me if I have not understood the game balance page!
2015-06-07 23:01:08 fairland: Plantagenet, I cannot challenge you directly apparently, but I did agree that I would play you if your rules were put on here, so if you will challenge me, I will gladly play your variant.
2015-06-08 17:03:41 mmagari: a translation into French or Italian thanks:"King armed, captured from 2 sides. The king can be captured against a corner square by one attacker!" (Brandubh (Tablut corner) 7x7)
2015-06-08 20:47:51 Plantagenêt: Thanks for the creation of the new version.
2015-06-10 00:20:39 Hagbard: 201 likes for the WTF facebook page!
2015-06-10 08:03:10 Kratzer: ... and well deserved! Good job!
2015-06-10 09:11:44 Hagbard: To new tafl players: please consider to send your email address to our World Tafl Federation chairman Tim Millar on anomalocharis AT hotmail DOT com , so that we have some contact information other than just an anonymous alias here.
2015-06-10 09:37:08 crust: yes, most of us have no problem being identified by name e.g. (crust = Tim Millar) and although I respect the decision of those who prefer to remain anonymous, it is frustrating. I think especially in the World Championship tournament, real names should be given.
2015-06-10 21:19:06 Hagbard: Crust won the Brandubh part of the triathlon.
2015-06-11 18:15:44 crust: I lost a game to Epoc and another to Animals. Also I see Altti is very close behind. Could get very interesting in round 2!
2015-06-12 10:42:38 crust: to Hagbard: I just noticed you have added some more rules details on the game page, under the board, such as a warning about the king being captured next to the throne in Brandubh. Good work. Thanks!!
2015-06-12 10:50:27 crust: when I said throne I meant corner :)
2015-06-13 21:06:16 Hagbard: not at all
2015-06-15 20:18:57 Plantagenêt: I propose a new hnefatafl's version which keeps the Copenhagen rules but the movement of pieces are restricted. Simple black and white warriors can move until 4 squares, Commanders black and white can move until 7 squares and the King can move as many squares as he wants.
2015-06-16 09:12:12 Hagbard: On the triathlon: If you want to or have to leave the tournament, you do not have to leave by timing out a lot of games and losing a lot of rating points. There's a simpler way out: you can simply ask to be cancelled from the tournament.
2015-06-21 13:34:01 altti: I have 4 games with docbullen for which I have not consented to play (2 partlet and 2 Copenhagen). could you remove them from my list please. I am playing enough games in the tournament already. thank you.
2015-06-21 14:07:34 Hagbard: It's automatic. When you do not move, games are cancelled after 3 days.
2015-06-21 22:27:53 Hagbard: Just returned from Lejre where the 50th anniversary of Sagnlandet (Land of Legends) was celebrated. Two skilled actors performed the Beowulf Legend which was written in England but takes place in Lejre.
2015-06-21 22:33:19 crust: any tafl activity there?
2015-06-21 22:35:44 Hagbard: I haven't seen any
2015-06-22 17:35:18 Hagbard: Italy National Tournament is completed: 1. Epoc 2. Sybil 3. Tamarisco and Mmagari
2015-06-24 18:28:43 Steiger: Salute!
2015-06-25 02:20:58 sqAree: Will there be a national tournament for Germany?
2015-06-25 07:41:50 Hagbard: If the Germans want one. However, the next world tournament is not far away. If we use the same approach as last year, sign in begins August 1st and the world champion tournament begins September 1st.
2015-06-26 11:08:06 crust: Congratulations to Altti, now the USA tournament is complete. Altti, are you remaining anonymous or may we know your real name? It's nice to know the champions are real people... All the best, crust (Tim Millar)
2015-06-27 06:55:52 altti: sorry to disappoint you crust, but this is my given name.
2015-06-27 10:01:36 Hagbard: Just looked through the archive for all Copenhagen games with Plantagenêt as the one player. Pl. did 173 Copenhagen games and (of course) won almost all of them. Ignoring a few timeouted games, only 22 games were lost: 12 were lost as white, 8 were lost as black, 2 were draws. Calculating a balance from these 22 games alone gives balance = -13/9 = -1.44 (Overall balance from 2374 games and all players is +1.39). From my own experience, when it happens that I hit a row of Copenhagen games where I keep losing often as white, this could often be caused by my playing too routinely and forgetting that white must play very aggressively right from start and all the way, to break through the black lines.
2015-06-27 12:15:35 Hagbard: Notes are added to 5 subjects in the Rules section of the large forum.
2015-06-27 18:09:30 crust: to Altti, OK mystery man, have it your way :). Schachus also decided to remain anonymous, that's fine too of course, though, yes it is a little disappointing. I wonder if player anonymity will become more of a problem in time, if we want to promote the game. Any thoughts (from anyone) welcome.
2015-06-28 09:52:21 xerxes: One problem is that even if we insist on players giving their real name, we would have no practical way of knowing that they were telling the truth. I (Xerxes) claim to be Steve Lonsdale, but that still may not be my real name ...
2015-06-28 10:20:11 crust: to xerxes: Good point, that is true. Does anyone know how they arrange matters in on-line chess tournaments?
2015-06-28 10:31:09 xerxes: Also, at least one person, and I suspect more, play as more than one handle on here; and I don't know if the locations are verified - what would stop me signing up as a different person, claiming to be from Germany, and entering the German national tournament !
2015-06-28 10:48:15 crust: ...so it was you!!! just kidding. Hagbard could answer the question about locations. None of this matters too much unless we want to take this a bit more seriously, then we'll have to have some way of identifying people I think
2015-06-28 12:33:14 sqAree: I know about the system of games disappearing without rating after a few days (if no moves have been played). This is alright but my list of games is so huge right now, I don't have any overview and I'm not going to play the non-copenhagen games anyway..
2015-06-28 12:35:21 sqAree: So actually an option to cancel new games right away would be appreciated.
2015-06-28 15:09:48 crust: yes, a cancel option would be good. :) docbullen seems to have challenged everybody to loads of games - he has hundreds of games started... what's going on there? Docbullen, have you turned into Ultron?
2015-06-28 17:46:51 OdinHimself: Plus one here about the cancel new games option, I have the same problem as sqAree.
2015-06-28 17:57:04 vonraider: Whoa, I have allot of games from docbullen as well. I can barely keep up with the ones I have going now. Should there not be some way to accept or deny a challenge? Or am I missing something?
2015-06-28 22:54:15 crust: Docbullen seems to have gone mentally nuts :) According to the games archive, he now has 78 games going, which is quite a lot more than anyone else (the next busiest player is Epoc with 27 games).
2015-06-28 23:05:29 Hagbard: About location: when in doubt, it is possible for me to verify the country of a player. About many games: notice the number of moves for each game. Games with 0 or 1 move are new games which you might choose to ignore. About cancel function: I suppose it should be on the todo list.
2015-06-29 12:58:49 altti: @ crust. would an anglo name satisfy you? Im a Finn with a Finnic name.....
2015-06-29 19:56:07 crust: To Altti: Altti is your whole name? o.k..... I hope I didn't offend :)
2015-06-29 22:55:33 altti: @ crust: sorry for the confusion my last name is Piirsoo.
2015-06-29 23:14:40 crust: To Altti: Thanks! It's nice to know that the USA Champion is Altti Piirsoo. Congratulations again :)
2015-06-30 10:37:06 test1: Joins the xxx tourn.
2015-06-30 10:44:05 sqAree: So what is this xxx tournament and when is it going to start?
2015-06-30 10:48:26 Hagbard: Just a small test. It's the World Championship tournament; sign in starts August 1st and the tournament starts September 1st. We haven't discussed it yet, but I presume it'll be so like last year.
2015-07-01 04:45:31 Fairland: Attn. Friends from the isle of Britain! I got the opportunity to watch several YouTube cuts of the show Speaking our language. I want so bad to get ahold of the entire program on DVD or something, but the only bits I find online are only pieces of the program and they are ridiculously expensive. I wondered if maybe the program is more accessible from the country. Anybody have any input?
2015-07-01 09:19:06 xerxes: Fairland - Try http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00drymv/episodes/guide
2015-07-01 10:24:51 Hagbard: I'll propose that the Hnefatafl World Championship Tournament 2015 is held the same way as last year with a few changes, as outlined here: h t t p://aagenielsen.dk/hnefataflforum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4&p=38#p4 I hope that Tim Millar will be the umpire again?
2015-07-01 14:06:22 crust: to Hagbard: Yes, of course! As long as no-one objects to me umpiring and competing - I won't umpire my own games of course - I hope you will do that Hagbard.
2015-07-01 14:11:59 crust: I would be prepared to create a trophy for 2015 World Hnefatafl Champion. The catch is, that obviously I couldn't send it to the winner without a name and address. How do people feel about this? I don't want to discourage players such as Schachus who may prefer to remain known only by their player-name.
2015-07-01 14:41:27 sqAree: I personally think a trophy would be great. Players who want to remain unknown among this site might send you personally their data, under obligation of secrecy. And if they still don't want.. I don't think it would discourage anyone.
2015-07-01 15:04:33 Hagbard: Yes I could be umpire of crust's games, like last year.
2015-07-01 19:50:51 crust: Thanks sqAree. I thing a trophy would help make our tournament more "real" (as would knowing players' real names, but I understand if some prefer anonymity) - and this is part of raising the profile of hnefatafl internationally, which I would hope is a goal we all support.
2015-07-02 15:41:08 crust: to Xerxes and Animals: One of your Brandubh matches has been featured with analysis on the WTF facebook page, see link below. I hope you don't mind :)
2015-07-02 20:00:06 animals: That's fine by me Crust. I just hope my brother still comes over for Yule!
2015-07-02 21:44:06 crust: to Animals: hehe...maybe I'll manage to cover a game where HE wins, before then :) Shall we see you at Sutton Hoo or Formby, for some REAL games?
2015-07-04 01:36:05 animals: to Crust: Hoping to get to one of them, though I struggle with the larger boards.
2015-07-05 16:44:17 xerxes: Fine by me too Crust - I'm more than happy for you to analyse all my games for me !
2015-07-09 13:26:56 crust: to Hagbard: I've noticed a few improvements in the site recently. May I suggest one more? I think it would be better to remove all those players with zero games from the ratings chart; they're just taking up space for no reason. This only bothers me because I'm always scrolling past it, to get to the "current board positions", "tournaments overview" and "games archive" buttons
2015-07-09 20:02:52 Hagbard: ok
2015-07-09 22:13:40 crust: To Hagbard: tak min ven
2015-07-10 08:23:01 Hagbard: ingen årsag
2015-07-11 15:55:50 altti: to crust: thank you for posting xerxes game against me it was an immaculate game on his part.
2015-07-11 19:48:03 crust: To Altti: It was a good one. I haven't done all the commentary yet, but working on it. Great game, and thanks for the comment; see you in round 3!
2015-07-12 15:44:05 xerxes: And thanks from me to Crust and Altti !
2015-07-12 15:45:33 xerxes: Hagbard: Please would you leave me out of round 3 of the Triathlon - I will be away for nearly all of August, and so will be unable to complete most of my games. Thanks, Xerxes.
2015-07-12 17:47:37 Hagbard: ok
2015-07-14 16:24:42 crust: to Xerxes: Sorry to hear that! Whose games am I going to write about now?
2015-07-14 19:19:39 xerxes: to Crust: Yes, it is a pity - I'd hoped the Triathlon would have moved along a bit more quickly ! I'll miss Sutton Hoo as well, but hoping to be at Formby ...
2015-07-14 21:15:45 Hagbard: I was aboard the grand Oseberg Viking Ship from Tønsberg, Norway, today. It is visiting Roskilde, Denmark, for a week and experimenting with sailing techniques in the fjord.
2015-07-15 08:43:48 Hagbard: Sunday I had the good luck to have a game of Hnefatafl against a French viking in the Land of Legends, Denmark. The French group used a board found in Trondheim, Norway, on one side markings for 9x9 and 11x11 Hnefatafl, and on the reverse side Nine Men's Morris. The French group used the Expomedia rules (Skalk 9x9 and 11x11 as described in the Danish book "Board and Piece, Games in the Iron Age", 1992). The French had obviously experienced some balance issues, because I was asked, which side in my opinion was most likely to win? Also they had tried to use a capture-king-from-4-sides rule. As the community on this site knows, the balance of Expomedia is about -1.73
2015-07-15 09:11:17 crust: sounds like they are going through similar processes to us, and ended up with something like the fetlar rules? Did you take any pictures for the gallery?
2015-07-15 09:32:26 Hagbard: @crust: it was my understanding that they still used the (unbalanced) Skalk rules. When I mentioned the Fetlar island and the king not being captured on the edge, they looked rather uncomprehending. I have some pictures to upload later.
2015-07-15 10:39:04 crust: thanks for the links! I look forward to seeing your pictures
2015-07-16 21:46:51 animals: Will the last round of the triathlon be starting soon? It would be good to finish (most of) the games before the world championship tournament begins.
2015-07-16 21:57:30 Hagbard: It could start tomorrow.
2015-07-16 23:10:42 crust: can't wait - looking forward to it!
2015-07-19 09:51:11 Hagbard: Altti and Crust won part two of the triathlon, the Saami Tafl.
2015-07-19 15:31:47 crust: to Hagbard: would it be very difficult to reform the game notation? Specifically, the fact that white's first move is listed under "move 2", the second move as "move 3" etc. It would be far more logical to list black's moves in the first column, since black always starts. I may be the only person who finds this a problem... but whenever I post a complete move list I have to spend a long time re-arranging it :)
2015-07-19 21:39:27 Hagbard: I think it could be changed.
2015-07-19 22:22:33 crust: to Hagbard: If it doesn't mess up the whole archive, it would be a good improvement!
2015-07-19 22:26:20 Hagbard: It should be possible without messing up the archive
2015-07-20 21:29:40 Hagbard: Page about the English National Hnefatafl Championships 2015: http://www.ealdfaeder.org/v03/hnefatafl.html
2015-07-21 08:45:50 crust: When they say "Stockholm rules" they mean Copenhagen
2015-07-21 08:58:56 Hagbard: So no attempts for monstrosity two-move castles in Sutton Hoo...
2015-07-21 09:11:03 crust: that's right, the umpire is very strict on that. And just to be clear, the competition is open to everyone, you don't have to be English! It just happens that the tournament is in England.
2015-07-21 09:20:36 Hagbard: Some day we could maybe consider a Copenhagen minus edge fort win, as the balance +1.40 allows for taking away a priviledge from the king. This would approximate the Copenhagen very much to a standard, making it similar to the 11x11 strong king games described widely on the net in USA and Russia, but still without the shortcomings of those (monstrosity forts, repetitions etc.).
2015-07-21 10:56:07 crust: yes, maybe. Though I would regret that, as I'm having a terrific end-game with Meersburg involving an almost-complete edge fort - I've written before aout how the winning edge fort activates the edge and causes phase transitions in the game-play. But I accept it's hard to convey the concept of winning edge-forts to beginners. Still, maybe it's like castling and the en passant rule in chess - not the first thing you would teach, but a nuance to be introduced after a couple of games
2015-07-21 11:14:25 Hagbard: I think that in our WTF circles we've learnt to appreciate the fun of the edge fort wins and continue to do so, but as an experiment I'll implement a "Copenhagen minus", which will then be more in line with Fetlar, "standard strong king hnefatafls" and everybody in the outside world not familiar with this speciality.
2015-07-21 12:53:33 altti: perhaps the name of that new version could be "Stockholm"?
2015-07-21 12:56:47 Hagbard: :) !
2015-07-21 19:46:01 Hagbard: The Copenhagen Minus is implemented for testing.
2015-07-22 08:42:34 crust: clarification on rules for 13x13 sea-battle tafl: if white HAS captured two or more black pieces, can black still win by total encirclement of all white pieces, or can white get a draw with a centre fort?
2015-07-22 08:56:00 Hagbard: No, the white sea battle fleet can be captured by encirclement. The centre draw fort is a Fetlar speciality. And to avoid abuse of it, it's only allowed after white killed two blacks, another Fetlar speciality.
2015-07-22 12:40:58 crust: Thanks Hagbard, that's much clearer. Would you consider adding a sentence about that to the rules? There's no mention of total encirclement in the sea-battle or tablut rules
2015-07-22 12:48:36 Hagbard: Yes it should be added. It's a general rule now, as is ban on repetitions.
2015-07-22 13:02:06 crust: to Hagbard: we tafl-heads know all the rules (mostly) but it's harder for beginners, they need the rules clearly stated; if I can help in any way, please say :)
2015-07-22 13:05:11 Hagbard: ok, thanks
2015-07-22 14:48:01 crust: Thanks to you too! Also for the fabulous photos and links!! Still working my way through them :)
2015-07-26 00:27:14 Hagbard: Attention those who have not yet signed in to the large forum: Sign in is now opened for 3 days.
2015-07-30 01:53:28 crust: Hagbard, thank you for making the change to the archive notation; it has already saved me a lot of work! Cheers!
2015-08-01 00:10:03 test1: Joins the Champ. tourn.
2015-08-01 08:59:24 Hagbard: Sign in started for the WTF World Champion Tournament 2015.
2015-08-01 10:14:22 animals: Joins the Champ. tourn.
2015-08-01 18:38:29 docbullen: Joins the Champ. tourn.
2015-08-01 18:42:11 vonraider: Joins the Champ. tourn.
2015-08-02 01:19:22 altti: Joins the Champ. tourn.
2015-08-02 04:48:42 duhawk93: Joins the Champ. tourn.
2015-08-02 09:56:22 Steiger: Joins the Champ. tourn.
2015-08-02 18:57:19 AreVidar: Joins the Champ. tourn.
2015-08-02 21:08:46 crust: Joins the Champ. tourn.
2015-08-02 21:32:50 crust: When does registration close?
2015-08-02 21:48:32 Hagbard: August 31st midnight.
2015-08-02 22:02:17 crust: Thanks Hagbard
2015-08-02 22:37:41 sqAree: Joins the Champ. tourn.
2015-08-02 22:39:59 sqAree: So the World Championship online tournament will be held with these pre-state rules of Copenhagen? :D
2015-08-03 03:51:52 imaxuncut: Joins the Champ. tourn.
2015-08-03 09:44:18 Kratzer: Joins the Champ. tourn.
2015-08-03 16:13:54 sybil: Joins the Champ. tourn.
2015-08-03 16:23:34 sybil: Joins the Champ. tourn.
2015-08-03 16:23:38 sybil: Joins the Champ. tourn.
2015-08-03 21:32:18 Hagbard: @sqAree: you have some good points in your forum note January 9th; I'll try and look into it.
2015-08-03 22:18:34 chuck ward: Joins the Champ. tourn.
2015-08-03 22:18:48 the fifth seal: Joins the Champ. tourn.
2015-08-04 23:18:06 docbullen: Joins the Champ. tourn.
2015-08-06 10:19:02 Adam: Joins the Champ. tourn.
2015-08-07 09:21:58 Hagbard: @sqAree: the formulation of the Copenhagen rules is cleared up. Unchanged rules but slightly changed presentation. Did you once offer to translate the rules into German?
2015-08-07 11:17:50 crust: Travelling to Sutton Hoo in eastern England later today, for the English National Championship on Sunday. This year, for the first time, we will be using the Copenhagen rules instead of the Fetlar rules. I expect to be having some long conversations about edge forts and shieldwall attacks... I wish you could all come, but I know you will be there in spirit, my tafl-brothers and sisters :)
2015-08-07 17:55:57 Kratzer: I could translate the Copenhagen rules too, if it hasn't been done yet. Just tell me which text. Greetings, Roderich/Kratzer
2015-08-07 19:30:23 sqAree: Yes, I once offered to translate the rules into German and I will gladly do this. Let me first check out the new wording though. Thanks for considering my essay about the rules by the way. :)
2015-08-08 07:54:22 Hagbard: @crust: Good luck with the Sutton Hoo tournament weekend! @Kratzer and sqAree: thanks to both of you. Let's see if sqAree finds the rules presentation improved and perhaps will translate.
2015-08-10 08:15:33 Hagbard: Registration to the large forum again opened for 3 days.
2015-08-10 09:00:33 Hagbard: Signed up for the Hnefatafl internet championship tournament till now: animals, docbullen, vonraider, altti, duhawk93, Steiger, AreVidar, crust, sqAree, imaxuncut, Kratzer, sybil, chuck ward, the fifth seal, Adam
2015-08-10 10:33:51 crust: Hagbard, has there been any change to the way the ratings are calculated?
2015-08-10 10:39:38 crust: to Hagbard: I got the impression of having lost about 30 points suddenly and not having lost a game for a while - but I did lose a brandub game to Steiger recently, so maybe that's the explanation
2015-08-10 10:46:29 crust: To Hagbard: Thanks for your good wishes, the tournament at Sutton Hoo went well, and Pete Jennings the former champion from 2013 regained his title, and another trophy for his office! He told me he has lots of awards and cups, etc. for various things, but the hnefatafl trophy is the only one he has out on display. 11-yr old Ollie Wilson won the juniors - that was hard-fought as well
2015-08-10 12:41:59 Hagbard: Congratulations to the English Masters! Aug. 8th a game of Sea Battle 13x13 was lost against Matematician and alas, with it went 30.6 points...
2015-08-10 18:39:02 crust: Yes, congratulations Pete Jennings and Ollie Wilson! That sea-battle game was an expensive loss for me!! :( never mind... I shall try to climb up the pole again :)
2015-08-10 19:11:04 crust: to hagbard: I found that game; I lost through such a stupid random mistake on my part, that I didn't even realize I had lost! Oh well, it proves I am not a computer at least ;)
2015-08-10 19:47:46 Hagbard: errare humanum est
2015-08-10 21:37:43 crust: glitch identified between user's ears
2015-08-11 11:38:59 Hagbard: So, did many Exit Fort wins and Shieldwall Captures happen at Sutton Hoo?
2015-08-11 13:57:44 crust: I think there was one shieldwall and nearly an exit fort. I photographed some of the games, will try to write them up soon.
2015-08-11 16:24:11 Mykle: Joins the Champ. tourn.
2015-08-11 17:25:44 Mykle: Joins the Champ. tourn.
2015-08-13 12:57:21 Hagbard: The championship tournament starts Sep. 1st, but if it were to start today, the Round 1 groups would be: 1. animals, altti, Steiger, AreVidar, sybil 2. docbullen, duhawk93, Kratzer, Adam, Mykle 3. vonraider, crust, sqAree, imaxuncut, chuck ward - and the Final groups would be 6, 5 and 4 players.
2015-08-14 02:51:59 Patterson: Joins the Champ. tourn.
2015-08-14 02:52:00 Patterson: Joins the Champ. tourn.
2015-08-14 02:58:11 Patterson: I have question going into the tournament. In the last tournament, I would receive move notifications early in but as things progressed I stopped getting them. For that particular tournament I got sent out of town for work and was unable to finish (I cannot access the site from my work computer, our filters consider this a "gaming site"). Has anyone else had this issue?
2015-08-14 10:15:37 Hagbard: About email-notification: in your game list page please press Enter in the green square ("activate/deactivate email notification") and check if the email-address is correct.
2015-08-14 10:33:30 Hagbard: About internet connection: I often move from a Samsung smartphone. Of course, with complicated board positions it's easier with the better overview on a large desktop screen, but if the board position is not too difficult, it's ok.
2015-08-14 12:07:47 Patterson: In the past I have done that. I have "toggled" the switch. This time I will be more proactive and bring it up as soon as it happens. My fault for not doing so in the past. Thanks.
2015-08-14 12:10:02 Patterson: I recently switched to the Samsung Note. Will be much easier to view/move from device.
2015-08-16 22:58:44 xerxes: Joins the Champ. tourn.
2015-08-19 09:35:18 Mykle: Joins the Champ. tourn.
2015-08-19 09:35:36 Mykle: Joins the Champ. tourn.
2015-08-20 10:01:33 Hagbard: Hagbard: The championship tournament starts Sep. 1st, but if it were to start today, the Round 1 groups would be: 1. animals vonraider altti AreVidar imaxuncut Mykle 2. docbullen duhawk93 Steiger Kratzer Adam 3. crust sqAree sybil chuck ward Patterson xerxes - and the Final groups would be 6, 6 and 5 players.
2015-08-20 11:40:03 crust: I can see you're having fun arranging us into groups, Hagbard; is this the hnefatafl equivalent of fantasy football? ;)
2015-08-20 13:12:03 Hagbard: I suppose so. I take it that fantasy football is pretty violent -
2015-08-21 07:38:29 alexystw: Joins the Champ. tourn.
2015-08-21 23:29:53 test3: @Hagbard I didn't subscribe for the tournament.
2015-08-22 01:09:16 Hagbard: @test3: ok. But I hope that Plantagenêt will subscribe!
2015-08-22 11:35:39 crust: Please play, Plantagenet, if you read this. :)
2015-08-24 11:23:12 crust: I know I have droned on about this before, but does anyone who is playing in the World championship insist on remaining anonymous, if they were to win? It's just that it would help us (the World Tafl Federation) to raise the profile of hnefatafl, if we actually know WHO the champion is. Any thoughts?
2015-08-24 13:20:32 Hagbard: NB. "the fifth seal" is not added to the tournament list, as it's an alias for a player already added, isn't it?
2015-08-24 14:29:08 crust: There's another example. I think anonymity is fine, but when it comes to the world championship, disclosure of real names should be made, even if only in confidence to the organizers of the tournament. Otherwise all sorts of confusions can happen. That's my view but i'd like to hear other opinions. crust (Tim Millar, UK)
2015-08-24 23:53:48 sqAree: For a normal World Championship is would be normal to force every participant to reveal the identity, it's just that this World Championship is played online, i.e. not in person, so some players might not see the need to tell their name (and moreover, no one can be certain about the given identities). Anyway, I'll gladly reveal my identity: Konstantin Jaehne, Berlin, Germany. :)
2015-08-25 01:02:08 crust: Thanks Konstantin! Good luck in the tournament!
2015-08-25 04:07:07 vonraider: It would be good for the legitimacy of the game if people would volunteer their true names, but then again, how could we prove they are who they say they are?
2015-08-25 09:09:59 crust: Good point, Vonraider, and I think "legitimacy" is a good word - that is precisely what as at stake here. For the moment, at least, we would have to take it on trust, I suppose. I'd still prefer a name and a city (or region), to just a player-tag. No disrespect meant, to those players who prefer anonymity.
2015-08-25 09:42:00 Hagbard: @sqAree: thanks, means that the correct name can be hat tipped for the help with the rules formulation, if that's ok. Interesting that, seen from this site, the Hnefatafl countries are UK, USA and Germany with 6, 6 and 5 strong players, and the Hnefatafl capital is Berlin with 3 strong players.
2015-08-25 10:17:02 crust: by the way, Hagbard, your "Tafl Champions" page is excellent :)
2015-08-25 10:20:14 Hagbard: thanks
2015-08-27 09:17:28 Hagbard: Please notice: since 2015-07-18 the time buffer is 14 days (earlier 15 days). All games started before 2015-07-18 are unaffected and have buffer 15 days, and all games started after 2015-07-18 have buffer 14 days.
2015-08-27 10:19:37 Aluric: Joins the Champ. tourn.
2015-08-27 11:07:53 dansuno: Joins the Champ. tourn.
2015-08-28 00:54:29 Gilrowen: Joins the Champ. tourn.
2015-08-28 08:39:58 Hagbard: Hagbard: The championship tournament starts Sep. 1st, but if it were to start today, the Round 1 groups would be: 1. animals vonraider altti AreVidar imaxuncut Mykle dansuno 2. docbullen duhawk93 Steiger Kratzer Adam alexystw Gilrowen 3. crust sqAree sybil chuck ward Patterson xerxes Aluric - and the Final groups would be 6, 8 and 7 players.
2015-08-28 10:10:41 crust: seems like fewer players than last year. That's not good! Where are you Nath, Schachus, Plantagenet...? But it's great to see some new names here. You are all very welcome, I hope everyone enjoys the tournament
2015-08-28 10:29:17 crust: I propose naming the first round groups. You know how we named the second-round groups las year, as Asgard, Midgard and Udgard. We can do the same this year, and maybe also name the first round groups, e.g. Thor group, Odin group and Freyja group. Just a thought!
2015-08-28 12:43:51 Hagbard: Good idea! Since Round 1 groups on purpose are as equal as possible, perhaps some equal names could be used, fx. important ancient localities. Fx. 1. Tunsberg (Tønsberg, oldest Viking town in Norway). 2. Fornebei (Formby, perhaps oldest Viking town in England). 3. Trelleborg (Viking castle in Denmark) or Hleidr (Lejre, old Viking kingdom in Denmark).
2015-08-28 12:57:26 crust: I like it! Though you might be in trouble if Docbullen is not put in the Fornebei group ;)
2015-08-28 15:28:03 Hagbard: - and if more players 4. Heidabyr (Hedeby, old Viking town in Slesvig)
2015-08-28 21:58:09 altti: Novgorod, Reval, Osel, Sigtuna, Visby, among others, will feel left out and very sad.
2015-08-28 22:48:22 Hagbard: :) true
2015-08-29 03:47:15 crust: I think it's a great idea Hagbard; just choose three and let the others deal with their grief however they wish!
2015-08-29 18:31:08 mmagari: Joins the Champ. tourn.
2015-08-29 18:31:28 mmagari: Joins the Champ. tourn.
2015-08-30 11:30:55 Epoc: Joins the Champ. tourn.
2015-08-30 13:07:59 Hagbard: The championship tournament starts Sep. 1st, but if it were to start now, the Round 1 groups would be: Heithabyr: animals vonraider altti sybil chuck ward xerxes alexystw dansuno Tunsberg: docbullen duhawk93 Kratzer Adam Patterson Aluric Gilrowen mmagari Fornebei: Steiger AreVidar crust sqAree imaxuncut Mykle Epoc - and the Final groups would be 6, 9 and 8 players.
2015-08-30 18:17:51 Steiger: С Днём Шахтёра меня, тафлеголоые!!!)))
2015-08-30 18:18:36 Steiger: *тафлеголовые*
2015-08-30 18:55:14 Hagbard: С Днём!
2015-08-30 19:38:57 Steiger: Спасибо! :)
2015-08-31 09:08:44 xerxes: To Hagbard: Apologies, but please withdraw me from the Championship tournament. I will be away for a couple of weeks at the end of September and do not want to adversely affect the competition by not finishing games.
2015-08-31 09:25:00 Hagbard: @xerxes: ok
2015-08-31 16:23:43 xerxes: Thanks Hagbard.
2015-08-31 16:59:13 Hagbard: NB still rest of today to join the World Championship Tournament! Starts tomorrow.
2015-09-01 01:22:41 crust: It Has Begun!! Good luck everybody, and enjoy your games!
2015-09-01 08:55:26 Sybil: Thanks!
2015-09-01 09:39:38 Hagbard: Please remember: Round 1 time buffer only 7 days. Good luck!
2015-09-02 23:35:29 Hagbard: First champ. tournament game completed: Animals / Aluric in the Heithabyr group.
2015-09-03 02:48:54 crust: Complete move-by-move game analysis of Aluric vs Animals game posted on World Tafl Federation Facebook page, by Crust
2015-09-04 13:38:05 Hagbard: Please notice that: If a player does not move at all during the first eight days of Round 1, he is removed from the tournament.
2015-09-05 13:01:00 altti: Tomorrow, Sunday Sept 6, Vasa park in Budd lake New Jersey will host a Scandinavian Festival with artisans,re-enactors, vendors, musicians and dancing troupes. I will be bringing a tafl set with me.
2015-09-06 02:59:05 CornDogBoy: I am back who wants to play some copenhageon? im a bit rusty been like forever
2015-09-06 07:41:44 Hagbard: @altti: did you find some tafl players in Vasa Park?
2015-09-06 12:50:17 altti: I attended their midsummer festival and only one inquisitive fellow played. updates to come on this days events.
2015-09-07 00:42:51 altti: An Estonian folk dance troupe was in attendance and I spent most of my time with them so I played one game with the dancers and one with a child. The Vasa organization info booth was interested and may be inviting me to set up a table for future events ☺ I've also been told that the board I gifted to the Estonian house in NY city has been getting some use. I will be attending an art exhibition there on the 18th.
2015-09-07 01:54:32 CornDogBoy: I miss playin i might start a club up at the college im at.....
2015-09-07 04:47:58 altti: look out crust I'm inching up on you in ratings ☺
2015-09-07 05:39:28 crust: Thanks for the news Altti - that's good! and you are welcome to overtake me in the ratings, any time :)
2015-09-08 04:55:34 altti: im about to lose a big one. just glad to have broke 2☺☺☺
2015-09-08 09:19:33 crust: Me too! Going down in flames over here ;) never mind. I have photographic proof that I did once get above Plantagenet's rating. Anyway, glad you made it to the 2000s Altti, even if you fall out again, you'll be back
2015-09-08 23:10:39 CornDogBoy: I heard Altti was glad i dropped out of the US tournament.. I challenge you too a 1v1 tournament :) If you dare
2015-09-09 00:06:28 crust: Corndogboy is the player formerly known as Teondrae, who dropped out fo the USA national tournament unexpectedly. Nice to have you back! Maybe Altti will accept your challenge, though like most of us he has a lot of world championship games going on right now
2015-09-09 00:06:29 animals: With reference to CornDogBoy's comment regarding the US championshipnand his relatively short recent history, is this another case of a player using multiple aliases?
2015-09-09 00:07:18 animals: Wow! Timing!
2015-09-09 00:08:24 crust: yes, timing! :)
2015-09-09 00:11:47 crust: I think it's more about lost passwords than multiple aliases in this case.
2015-09-09 00:18:58 animals: Welcome home CornDogBoy
2015-09-09 03:17:52 altti: cornboy did not know you were one and the same. It is always nice to have a greater number of players in any tournament. welcome back. I do have my hands full in the tourney.
2015-09-09 08:13:38 Hagbard: Alexystw never showed up and is out. All other participants started their games, also some new names, welcome to them! There are some time warnings, please remember that the Round 1 time buffer is only 7 days.
2015-09-09 17:00:53 animals: I notice that games in a new tournament can begin before entries are closed; however, players may prefer to delay starting play until entries are closed. Does the time buffer begin from the point of a player's entry, or the point at which entry is closed? I would suggest it should be the point at which entries are closed. This way players can enter at the earliest opportunity without being penalised (with a reduced time buffer or having their tactics visible to latecomers).
2015-09-09 19:11:56 Hagbard: Time counts from start of the game, also in tournament games. And a tournament invitation is normally open for ten days.
2015-09-10 06:01:14 CornDogBoy: Yes sorry i made a new account cus i forgot password lol.. I keep my passwords saved on my computer so i dont have to remember them...
2015-09-10 08:16:58 Hagbard: The Heithabyr group is first to be halfway through Round 1.
2015-09-10 18:24:24 animals: Congratulations to Crust and Altti in the triathlon.
2015-09-10 18:55:50 Hagbard: animals is right. Altti won the Sea Battle part of the triathlon, and the whole triathlon is a shared win to Crust and Altti! And animals holds a fine number 3.
2015-09-11 00:43:10 crust: Thanks Animals
2015-09-11 02:00:33 Sigurd: Does the "New-game confirmation: Until both players did two moves each, a new-started game is automatically cancelled (without rating) after three days of inactivity." apply to tournaments like Tournament 43 Tawlbwrdd? Or does the time buffer need to run out?
2015-09-11 05:28:55 altti: thank you and congrats all around. it was a great tourney.
2015-09-11 07:12:41 Hagbard: @Sigurd: only non-tournament games are erased after three days.
2015-09-11 07:33:06 Hagbard: - but in the Tournament 43 time is running (time buffer).
2015-09-11 10:38:57 crust: Congrats Altti, honoured to share the Triathlon first place with you!
2015-09-11 10:40:21 crust: Looks like Chuck Ward is dropping out of the World Championship too; Fornebei group is down to 5 players
2015-09-11 19:47:45 altti: crust I am likewise honoured as I was not expecting to place either 1st or 2nd.
2015-09-15 08:34:48 Epoc: Perhaps you have already written it, but why so many top players have not been enjoyed the championship ? I do not see even Hagbard.
2015-09-15 09:00:21 Hagbard: I have no good excuse. But I'm glad that 20 players do join the Championship Tournament. The 20 are a broad spectrum of players, and it's very entertaining to follow the battles, and hopefully also to take part in them.
2015-09-15 21:31:15 Adam: Does anyone know where they got the lovely copies of the storhaug pieces from Bergan pictured below in the Land of Legends pictures? They are great!
2015-09-15 21:38:10 Hagbard: The set belonged to a group of French Vikings (Viking market). It was their private set, not for sale.
2015-09-15 22:17:07 Adam: Homemade then? Lovely replica. Not quite the Berserk set up alas, but great to see those pieces on a replica style board too.
2015-09-15 22:50:35 Hagbard: I believe the material was glass. They could be hand made.
2015-09-18 23:42:49 Hagbard: The Fornebei group is halfway through Round 1.
2015-09-20 10:33:52 crust: to Hagbard. something about the tournament tables looks different. I like it.
2015-09-21 11:27:39 Hagbard: Altti first to make it to Asgarthr.
2015-09-21 12:44:28 Altti: Funny that in Tafl the victor not the vanquished gets to Valhalla first ☺
2015-09-21 15:12:15 crust: Nice going Altti
2015-09-21 22:10:23 Altti: see you soon crust.
2015-09-21 22:12:49 Altti: looks like crust has it locked on too
2015-09-21 23:40:05 Hagbard: Epoc and Sqaree could overtake Crust.
2015-09-21 23:52:39 Hagbard: No, Altti is right, Crust made it to Asgarthr.
2015-09-22 02:27:30 crust: looking forward to it, Altti :)
2015-09-22 06:12:38 fairland: Congratulations to both Crust and Altti on making it to the final rounds! I cant wait to analyze the final match.
2015-09-22 09:05:59 crust: Tnanks Fairlsnd... there will be 4 others in the final round too, that is to say, the top 2 players from each of the three first-round groups go through to the Asgard group, making 6 players. And last year, those who didn't quite make it, played on, to see who would win Midgard group; it is hoped they will do the same this year. Last year's Midgard champion was called Unterwichtel.
2015-09-22 21:07:55 Altti: @ Fairland you are sorely missed in the tournament.
2015-09-23 04:05:47 altti: looks like kratzer and adam have got it too
2015-09-23 04:43:17 fairland: I know this is late, but seeing as how I have been away I have an excuse. Thank you so much for the explanation of the saga oseberg ship! It was very fascinating, and since I don't speak Norwegian it would have been lost on me without explanation. I am also very curious as to where this "Land if Legends" is. Please explain?
2015-09-23 12:02:43 Hagbard: Animals made it to Asgarthr (Old Norse). So half of the players for Asgarthr are now found.
2015-09-23 21:48:33 Hagbard: World Tafl Federation on Facebook 300 likes!
2015-09-23 22:24:16 Hagbard: The Tunsberg group is halfway through Round 1.
2015-09-23 22:43:46 Hagbard: Kratzer made it to Asgarthr.
2015-09-24 09:45:48 Hagbard: @fairland: An explanation about the Land of Legends is added.
2015-09-24 10:06:13 xerxes: Hagbard - is it possible to change a User Name ? I notice that half the players who have made it to Asgathr have names beginning with 'A', so I would like to change mine for next year ...
2015-09-24 10:46:01 crust: Xerxes, I hope you WILL play next year, even if you change your name to Aardvark :)
2015-09-24 10:55:18 xerxes: I would have played this year, but am away for the next couple of weeks (via Formby on Sat - I understand there is some excitement up there ...).
2015-09-24 11:34:22 crust: xerxes, see you at Formby?? Awesome!
2015-09-24 12:02:25 xerxes: Yes Crust - though Animals and I will have Mrs Animals and Mrs Xerxes with us, so will have to behave ...
2015-09-24 12:21:08 crust: That's great news, I look forward to meeting all of you :)
2015-09-24 12:27:13 Hagbard: @xerxes: :) Perhaps next year we could rename Asgathr into Xasgathr...
2015-09-24 17:17:43 xerxes: :) I like that Hagbard !
2015-09-25 02:52:25 fairland: Thank you very much, Aage!very informative.
2015-09-26 11:28:23 Hagbard: @fairland: I researched some more and expanded a bit on the Land of Legends.
2015-09-26 14:16:57 test3: @hagbard: I didn't participate to the tournament because I think this game is for the moment unbalanced.
2015-09-26 15:34:28 Hagbard: The champ. tourn. Round 1 right now: 49 white wins and 26 black wins. Rest of Round 1 more black wins can be expected, since those games are usually longer.
2015-09-27 16:50:50 crust: Just back from Formby Viking fair (UK) where I met up with a good number of players from this site; Apart from me there was Docbullen, Animals, Xerxes, Tonythebook and Herjan (Bainn also dropped in later). It was great to meet up in person, finally, and we even had a mini tournament. I'll send you some pictures Hagbard; wish you could have been there too. Lots of hnefatafl was played, and lots of teaching happened too. Crust
2015-09-27 18:00:21 Hagbard: Good pictures on the facebook. Looks like a fine day!
2015-09-27 18:24:34 crust: Good to see so many of your British friends there Hagbard... Tafl Avengers Assemble!
2015-09-27 18:55:49 Hagbard: So who won Thor's Hammer?
2015-09-27 19:07:01 crust: I'll give you three guesses ;) (It looks very nice on my imaginary mantelpiece; I'll send you a photo of that too)
2015-09-27 20:45:47 Hagbard: I think I have an idea about it. And who won the other years?
2015-09-27 21:36:08 xerxes: Had a great time in Formby. Big thanks to Tonythebook for organising the Tafl and the mini-tournament (Thor's Hammer was a lovely item, wasted on Crust's imaginary mantlepiece). It was good to meet Crust, Docbullen and Herjan too - we should try and have more face-to-face sessions.
2015-09-28 03:58:50 altti: it would be nice to have a tafl assembly in the US too. I have two possible venues. the Estonian house in NYC, and Vasa park in Budd lake NJ during the midsummer and/or scan fest. Sigurd would that be too far for you? perhaps somewhere in Pennsylvania?
2015-09-28 04:57:21 fairland: I think that if a tafl assemby gets started, it should be somewhere in Oklahoma because its in the middle. Besides, Oklahoma is the closest to having a functioning tafl network with a functioning high school tafl club, and an adult club budding at the local college. If that gets going we will begin proposing and establishing tafl clubs all across the state. Unless you guys want to do a "Northeastern" division and we could take "central"
2015-09-28 05:11:14 Sigurd: Western New York / Eastern PA might be good. I've held two tafl tournaments during this past summer for the Asatru community in the Northeast US. Some of the players might be interested. (I'll get around to posting about those tournaments eventually.)
2015-09-28 23:32:00 altti: my apologies. the US is a large country, too large for just one locale to claim as the assembly place for all. I should say that I'm ignorant of where these events are taking place.
2015-09-29 02:44:57 fairland: We are Just getting started. I wasn't offended. There is no reason we couldn't create a coalition. One in the west, one in the east, and one central. I am thrilled that we are developing a tafl circuit in Oklahoma. I would love to see one popping up in New York area!!!
2015-09-29 17:52:35 Hagbard: Altti is first to complete Round 1.
2015-09-30 08:05:45 Kratzer: Hi guys, crust and I would like to revive the idea of a "meet&greet&play" where as many of us as possible come together. The first challenge would be to find an appropriate date and place. I would propose to create a doodle where everyone can choose their favourite dates (ideally a weekend in a sufficiently warm month like May i. e., so that we can have activities outside and maybe even attract new players). Because of its quite favourable position for some of us (Great Britain, Scandinavia, Middle Europe), crust and I have thought about having the meeting in Copenhagen. Although this would make it sort of an "European" meeting in the first place, everybody is warmly welcomed of course. What do you think about our ideas? Greetings, Kratzer
2015-09-30 10:20:54 xerxes: Sounds good to me Kratzer - would need to be somewhere with potential entertainment for accompanying non-players (eg Mrs Xerxes aka Amestris).
2015-09-30 21:02:31 Fairland: I think it would be something I would do with the ability to do it. I think that the goal that should be ever present in our minds as tafl players is that one day we will be more focused on in-person play and the websites would be more for relaxing fun/play testing. (Though I mean in no way to replace or eliminate the websites, with all respect Mr. Nielsen.)
2015-09-30 21:49:42 sqAree: It sounds great, and I'd consider coming if it's close to where I live (and Copenhagen is relatively close to Berlin so why not).
2015-09-30 23:11:23 Hagbard: Kratzer completed Round 1.
2015-09-30 23:48:58 Hagbard: Imaxuncut completed Round 1.
2015-10-01 18:19:52 Hagbard: Animals completed Round 1.
2015-10-01 19:44:32 Hagbard: Aluric and Patterson completed Round 1.
2015-10-02 09:01:36 Hagbard: The new button "Offer quick game": If both players press the button, the game shifts into max. time buffer 3 days instead of max. 14 days. (not for tournaments). (Inspired from conversation with Sigurd, USA, who suggested very short games, 30 minutes long with Fischer clock, but this button is a step in the direction).
2015-10-02 09:17:48 crust: Trying it out with Aluric ;)
2015-10-02 10:58:04 Hagbard: - and the quick game mode can also be reversed: When in quick mode, if both players press the button again, the game will shift into normal mode (time buffer 14 days).
2015-10-02 12:06:07 test3: @crust: Where is the button for quick time?
2015-10-02 12:18:08 test3: @crust: No forget, I've just found.
2015-10-02 19:29:23 sqAree: Where is the doodle for the meeting? :D
2015-10-03 01:42:30 altti: animals and I are engaged in a tawlbryd game where it could either be a repetition forfeit according to tablut rules or an endless draw as cyningstans rule set omits any mention of repetitions (only stating the victory conditions for either side). encirclement is not an option either.
2015-10-03 08:52:08 Hagbard: The Animals/Altti game position is an interesting white draw fort of Garbo type. Draw forts are only forbidden in the Copenhagen variant. So this game should be a draw.
2015-10-03 09:24:27 crust: In games where draw forts are allowed, the ban on repetitive moves does not apply to the draw fort, which this unquestionably is (of the garbo type). Also White has satisfied the requirement to capture at least 2 black warriors, which was brought in to stop white from having an instant draw with a centre-fort at the beginning of the game. So, looks like a draw to me too. Garbo forts h t t p://www.tim-millar.co.uk/section509308_183656.html
2015-10-03 09:25:25 Hagbard: NB! New registerings for the large forum is now opened for some days, on request from Kratzer. New registering is only opened when requested, rest of the time it's closed because of flooding by spam robots.
2015-10-04 04:52:00 sqAree: When the timer buffer is used up, we still have 1.5 days for our moves.. That doesn't apply to the tournament yes? ._.
2015-10-04 05:34:33 Hagbard: Also for tournament games 1.5 day for current move when time buffer is used up.
2015-10-04 05:56:23 sqAree: Ah how did I lose then.
2015-10-04 06:15:17 Hagbard: Game 1 Black g2-g7 2015-10-02 07:50:30 White zzzz 2015-10-04 01:46:28 No move for more than 1.5 day (and no time buffer left) Game 2 Black g1-c1 2015-10-02 07:43:37 White zzzz 2015-10-04 04:17:05 No move for almost 2 days (and no time buffer left)
2015-10-04 11:41:57 Kratzer: Hey guys, here you can access the doodle: http://doodle.com/poll/asywu46urkgtq5pm. We would be glad if you could indicate your favourite weekends within the given space of time. Your selection is non-binding of course. This is but a first approach to what could become a World Tafl Federation Convention 2016 (perhaps taking place in Copenhagen). Greetings, Christoph /Kratzer
2015-10-04 18:03:03 sqAree: @Hagbard: Oh okay, I was quite sure the buffer wasn't fully used at that point.. Seems like I just didn't read well. :/ But it's ok as these games were lost anyway. @Kratzer: Thanks for the doodle. Unfortunately I can't plan my next year right now, but I promise I will sign in as soon as I know more in case I can come. :)
2015-10-05 10:33:25 Hagbard: Adam made it to Asgarthr.
2015-10-05 22:25:32 Fairland: I really wish you guys the best in the WTF convention 2016. That is super exciting! I must say, I will not be able to attend. I cannot cross the big water in the forseeable future. Allow me to develop the Oklahoma hnefatafl circuit and we will see where that goes in the future.
2015-10-06 03:04:34 crust: to Fairland: You're doing great things there Justin, keep going! ;)
2015-10-07 07:43:48 Hagbard: Certain for Asgård: Altti, Crust, Animals, Kratzer, Adam. Certain for Midgård: Arevidar, Mykle, Docbullen, Duhawk93, Imaxuncut. Certain for Udgård: Aluric, Patterson, Vonraider, Gilrowen, Steiger. Uncertain: Mmagari, Sybil, Sqaree, Epoc.
2015-10-07 09:09:30 Kratzer: The poll about a Tafl Convention 2016 is still ongoing. http://doodle.com/poll/asywu46urkgtq5pm In the large forum we are currently discussing about the location. Feel free to join and discuss!
2015-10-07 22:37:04 Hagbard: Crust completed Round 1.
2015-10-08 13:26:26 Hagbard: The Mayor of the viking town York, UK, visited Roskilde Viking Ship Museum this week: http://sn.dk/Roskilde/Borgmesterbesoeg-fra-den-anden-side-af-Nordsoeen/artikel/520560
2015-10-08 17:58:57 Hagbard: Vonraider completed Round 1.
2015-10-08 20:06:57 crust: Hagbard has just passed 2000 games :)
2015-10-08 23:27:25 Hagbard: Duhawk93 completed Round 1.
2015-10-09 07:06:58 Hagbard: The triathlon is completed. Results: 1. Crust & Altti 3. Animals 4. Docbullen & Duhawk93 6. Arevidar 7. Kratzer & Matematician 9. Vonraider
2015-10-09 11:09:57 crust: Re: the Tafl Triathlon: Cheers Altti! Too bad there isn't a trophy; we could have sawn it in half and shared it ... great tournament, Hagbard :)
2015-10-09 13:53:57 altti: congrats Crust. we need to make this an annual event with rotating variants.
2015-10-11 08:30:06 Hagbard: Outcome of Round 1 is still unchanged with the uncertain: Mmagari, Sybil, Sqaree, Epoc. Last year Round 2 was started October 10th. I'll just mention that it is technically possible to start the three Round 2 groups Asgård, Midgård and Udgård already now with the 15 players whose results are known, and then add Mmagari, Sybil, Sqaree and Epoc later as soon as their results are known.
2015-10-11 10:21:50 altti: would these four players object to round 2 beginning?
2015-10-11 10:41:53 xerxes: Ref Triathlon - yes, an annual rotating event with different variants would be good. Perhaps in the spring so it is not too close to World Championship ?
2015-10-12 11:14:59 Hagbard: Docbullen completed Round 1.
2015-10-12 16:30:03 Hagbard: Gilrowen, Adam and all the Tunsberg group completed Round 1. Confirms that Adam and Kratzer goes to Asgård.
2015-10-14 11:01:59 Hagbard: Round 2 could still start now with the 15 certain players, and later added the 4 uncertain players...
2015-10-14 23:24:12 Hagbard: Mykle completed Round 1. Mmagari goes to Midgård and Sybil goes to Udgård. Uncertain: Sqaree, Epoc. The Udgård group is fully determined and can start tomorrow. Rest of the players could start also, except for the two uncertain. For correspondence games, time is a scarce resource. To get through with this process in good time before Christmas, it would really be a good idea to start all groups tomorrow, in my opinion...
2015-10-15 00:37:34 crust: Those who can start the next round, should start :)
2015-10-15 07:58:56 Hagbard: Thanks. The starting whistle is blown for Round 2!
2015-10-15 11:52:55 xerxes: A bit off-topic, but I wondered if anybody can recommend a good book / guide on the main Viking sites in Europe - places such as Gotland, Aaldborg, Gamla Uppsala. Thanks.
2015-10-16 08:10:52 Epoc: A question. Me and sqaree are still uncertain. But if I lose we'll finish both with 7 points. Same direct point (one loss and One win). What Is sonneborg-berger position?
2015-10-16 09:26:26 Hagbard: If black wins the Epoc/Sqaree game and black also wins the Sybil/Epoc game, then Epoc and Sqaree both won 7 Round 1 points, and both won once against each other, as you said, and the Sonneborn-Berger scores are also the same for the two players. Happened last year as well with Docbullen and Helfrich.
2015-10-16 10:26:44 crust: Good luck in the final round everyone.
2015-10-17 16:29:47 Hagbard: A new TV series starting in USA Oct. 10th and in UK Oct. 22nd: "The Last Kingdom" http://www.bbcamerica.com/the-last-kingdom/ The viking ship Sea Stallion from Roskilde has a part in the movie.
2015-10-18 23:41:06 Hagbard: First to complete a Round 2 game: Arevidar / Imaxuncut.
2015-10-19 08:51:04 Hagbard: NB! New registerings for the large forum is now opened for some days, on request from Aluric. New registering is only opened when requested, rest of the time it's closed because of flooding by spam robots.
2015-10-19 13:57:46 Hagbard: Epoc and Sqaree made it to Asgarthr
2015-10-19 20:09:43 crust: Well done Sqaree and Epoc, it's nice to have 7 in the Asgarthr group!
2015-10-20 01:42:20 sqAree: Thanks! I'm glad to reach Asgarthr in spite of my poor start in the tournament.
2015-10-20 10:04:59 Hagbard: To new tafl players: please consider to send your email address to our World Tafl Federation chairman Tim Millar on anomalocharis AT hotmail DOT com , so that we have some contact information other than just an anonymous alias here.
2015-10-20 19:31:14 crust: Yes, please do. You will not be bothered with unwanted communications. Many thanks. Tim Millar.
2015-10-20 20:05:32 Hagbard: First to complete a game in Utgarthr: Steiger / Aluric
2015-10-20 23:14:00 Hagbard: First to complete a game in Asgarthr: Adam / Crust
2015-10-25 23:51:39 animals: Thought I'd query the time buffer situation, given I'm playing a couple of games where the limit is 14 days and the time used is 14.8/14.9 days! Has the change from summer time to winter time messed things up?
2015-10-25 23:57:02 Hagbard: No, summer/winter hasn't changed the number. It's because you have 1.5 days for your current move even if the time used is already more than 14 days.
2015-10-26 00:01:34 animals: In which case, why didn't the buffer return to 14 days when my opponent made his move? Surely it should provide some indication of when the clock will stop?
2015-10-26 00:15:06 Hagbard: If a player does some fast moves, he'll restore time to the time buffer. If he exceeds the limit more and more, it'll be harder and harder to get back to below limit. Then first time one second more than 1.5 days is used, timeout strikes.
2015-10-26 00:18:45 animals: So if the time reaches 15.5 seconds it's game over?
2015-10-26 00:27:42 Hagbard: Time buffer used 14 days or more and time used for current move more than 1.5 day: timeout.
2015-10-26 00:30:09 animals: So shouldn't the current move time be shown as well? I'm all for having a timing system, but both players should know exactly where they stand.
2015-10-26 00:31:59 Hagbard: Maybe sounds strange to choose 1.5 day for current move and not simply 1 day. It's because some players move once per day, and the exact time varies. So it would seem not right to let them time out just because they moved a bit earlier yesterday and a bit later today.
2015-10-26 00:34:52 animals: It's getting late (even later for you) so I'll think it over while I sleep!
2015-10-26 00:35:18 Hagbard: Current move time is shown. On the games list ("Games archive") the timestamp for latest move is shown for each game.
2015-10-26 00:41:52 animals: Good point. The timestamp also shows on list of current games.
2015-10-26 00:56:38 sqAree: What about showing the current scores of players in tournaments next to the table?
2015-10-26 10:03:32 Hagbard: Asgarthr first to complete half of Round 2.
2015-10-26 19:51:59 crust: Good idea Sqaree! I see Hagbard has implemented it already!
2015-10-26 20:07:46 cyningstan: I've been confused about the timing too. I've been checking in twice a days some days recently, and moving when it's my turn, but still my time used keeps increasing.
2015-10-26 20:30:49 Hagbard: I'll admit to a small modification to timing of long games done two weeks ago. After 30 days a game is a "long game" and time per move is gradually stepped down into 0.5 day per move whereafter time is taken from the buffer. After 45 days a game is a "very long game" and time per move is gradually stepped down into 0.33 day per move whereafter time is taken from the buffer. The player continues to be protected by the 1.5 day for current move. This influences on very few games, since most games are completed sooner, and I keep an eye on the world tournament games to assure that it does not impact on the outcome of them.
2015-10-27 13:31:47 sqAree: Thank you for the fast implementation! :)
2015-10-30 07:18:50 Hagbard: Gilrowen never showed up for Round 2 and is out.
2015-11-01 05:45:33 Sigurd: There seems to be a slight bug with the time buffer display. Under the 'Games archive' & 'My current games'; as of this writing, it correctly says I have 11.8 days of buffer used. But at the bottom of 'My current games' when I click 'Enter' right below where it says 'Show my games and time buffers' it says I've used 12.9 days.
2015-11-01 08:23:16 Hagbard: Utgarthr completed half of Round 2.
2015-11-01 17:28:29 Hagbard: Saw the "Shetland: Red Bones" TV episode. Suddenly appeared an advertisement sign for "Valhalla Shetland Beer".
2015-11-02 01:44:23 crust: The Valhalla Brewery is on the Shetland Island of Unst, and is just a few hundred yards away from the "Skidbladner" - a full-size reconstruction of the Gokstad ship, where hnefatafl is played; I visited the ship with Peter Kelly 5 or 6 years ago and they had a form of Alea Evangelii on board. The site is run by a group called "Viking Unst" who originated the "Unst rules" - where the king can capture as hammer but not anvil.
2015-11-02 02:01:24 fairland: Can we get some pictures? That sounds like a pretty cool place.
2015-11-02 03:29:18 crust: Fairland; see WTF facebook page ;) unfortunately I can't find any pictures of the ship interior with its hnefatafl sets
2015-11-02 13:20:30 Hagbard: @Sigurd: difficult to find the reason for that bug. The value in 'Games archive' & 'My current games' is the important one which controls the timeout.
2015-11-03 06:00:45 Hagbard: Mithgarthr completed half of Round 2.
2015-11-03 06:48:14 Hagbard: The Unst tafl variant mentioned by Crust can be tried out; on the list called "Unst king hammer only tafl 11x11".
2015-11-03 06:52:23 Hagbard: Vonraider timed out more than half of the Round 2 games and is out.
2015-11-05 05:02:38 fairland: First impressions on Unst tafl: Creates a more invigorating game when it comes to nob-king piece involvement. You can't just get your king out in this version. In fact there is very little motivation to do so. In this version, one must create a player-filled path to the corner before ever worrying about mobilizing the king.
2015-11-07 08:35:20 Hagbard: The current Tablut Bell test tournament is part of the investigation of the Welsh Tawlbwrdd mystery: which of the ten possible setups is most likely the real, historical Tawlbwrdd? This test tournament plus one more could bring us close to an answer.
2015-11-07 08:52:08 Hagbard: About Unst tafl: I believe that the Fairland strategy would work fine, and actually it would also work fine for Sea Battle with its fully unarmed king. I have a theory for Unst with its half armed king that it maybe could be an advantage to get the king out fast and keep him running, because the Unst king is armed only when he runs.
2015-11-07 10:53:56 crust: yes I think both strategies have something going for them - it's vital not to let the king get isolated from his men, so running the king is risky, but could still lead to a quick win. However, the "guillotine" tactic will not work under Unst rules, which is a serious setback for white.
2015-11-07 13:32:10 Hagbard: The Unst game is somewhere in between the Fetlar fully armed (balance +1.43) and Sea Battle diamond fully unarmed (balance -1.38), so the Unst balance and the Unst strategies could be expected to be also somewhere in between; very mysterious game.
2015-11-07 16:56:54 crust: I would be massively surprised if there's anyone up there on Unst who has given it this much thought...
2015-11-07 22:01:48 fairland: That is what the WTF is for. We give it this much thought so casual players don't have to. I would be glad to play test Unst in a tournament setting.
2015-11-08 05:44:38 sqAree: Please make sure I still can use my 1.5 days after time buffer is used up.
2015-11-08 06:33:28 Hagbard: You can. When time buffer is used up AND 1.5 days are used for current move, it's time out.
2015-11-08 11:08:24 crust: Yes, Unst is worth a look, but I think Peter Kelly was right to reject it because the King is really too weak for corner tafl on the 11x11 board. I wonder if it would be better balanced on a 9x9 board, because 7x7 brandubh works well and that's corner tafl with a weakened king.
2015-11-08 13:32:50 sqAree: Oh I see. The wording might be misleading then to be honest.
2015-11-08 15:43:11 Hagbard: Crust is first to complete Round 2.
2015-11-08 15:51:35 Hagbard: Unst on a 9x9 to corner, and Unst 11x11 to edge perhaps are two options. Besides the Unst 11x11 to corner used on the island Unst.
2015-11-08 16:51:20 Hagbard: I wonder, since Unst has used this game for so many years, there must be something in it.
2015-11-08 17:33:12 Fairland: Crust and Hagbard: That is why I think it should be play-tested tourney style. If we discover it is unbalanced, we can shrink the rule to a 9X9. If it appears to be balanced and/or have a charm the players like, we can leave it as is. I know Peter Kelly was very careful and meticulous in his decision-making, and his decisions must be considered, but within the context of the tafl world he lived in. There have been drastic changes to understanding of strategy and play in the last few years alone.
2015-11-08 20:02:12 Hagbard: I'd imagine after the current test tournament and one more to tie up a loose end about Tawlbwrdd, we could have an Unst test tournament.
2015-11-12 10:32:46 Hagbard: Imaxuncut first in Mithgarthr to complete Round 2.
2015-11-16 17:16:17 Fairland: Mr. Nielsen, is there perpetual motion in Unst tafl? (see Fairland vs. Davis as reference.) I think this should be a tie if there is perpetual motion, if not, I will lose soon and might as well resign.
2015-11-16 17:33:01 Hagbard: @Fairland: Perpetual repetition is forbidden generally. Allowed only in Fetlar, because the Fetlar Hnefatafl Panel didn't formulate a rule about this. So the Fairland/Davis game would be a tie in Fetlar, but in this game it's a loss, I'm afraid.
2015-11-16 17:36:38 Fairland: Thanks, I will go ahead and resign then.
2015-11-17 14:45:02 crust: what has happened to our original Sea-Battle 9x9? it seems to have disappeared as an option
2015-11-17 21:24:33 Hagbard: It's just that the balance has not been too good, +1.51, compared to the fine balances of Sea Battle cross 11x11 and Sea Battle Parlett 13x13. But it can be reinserted.
2015-11-18 11:41:37 Hagbard: Note item 6 in the photo below; black, polished game pieces found in a stone age settlement in Denmark, several small pieces with one larger piece. Stone age board game with a chief piece? Or a stone age hunters' game with a prey piece? http://www.kjeldlarsen.mono.net/upl/9844/Kgevej209vIshjmednrhjemmeside10.jpg
2015-11-18 18:59:51 crust: in brandubh line 7x7, are the corners not hostle? or just not hostile to the king??
2015-11-18 20:55:34 Hagbard: They should be hostile.
2015-11-18 21:08:55 Hagbard: Sorry, it was a bug. Corrected now.
2015-11-18 22:55:39 crust: I thought it was a bit odd! I lost to Tonythebook, because of that ;) haha. Still, it was unrated, and Tony has beaten me lots of times
2015-11-18 23:38:20 Hagbard: That game is also changed into a black win for the statistics.
2015-11-19 06:35:34 Hagbard: Aluric completed Round 2.
2015-11-20 11:01:17 crust: I see our normal 9x9 sea-battle variant is restored. This makes me happy; thanks Hagbard :)
2015-11-20 20:16:00 HELFRICH: Hello. I have not played for awhile. Can I get my old rating revived?
2015-11-21 13:55:20 HELFRICH: Thanks Aage for the restoration. Charles II thanks you too.
2015-11-21 19:15:06 xerxes: Hagbard - would it be possible to have the tournament number added to the entry on the "Tournament Overview" page - eg "46 - Tablut cross 11x11 (2015-11-20)" ?
2015-11-22 21:48:24 Hagbard: Altti won the Welsh tafl tournament.
2015-11-23 09:40:46 xerxes: Thanks Hagbard !
2015-11-23 12:44:49 Hagbard: Animals completed Round 2.
2015-11-24 02:04:54 crust: Well done Altti! Close result!
2015-11-24 03:33:56 altti: yes that draw came in handy. strong play by sigurd.
2015-11-24 04:52:58 Sigurd: Congratulations Altti.
2015-11-24 13:12:22 animals: In my current game of Foteviken 11x11 against Xerxes (I'm playing black), I was able to take white's pieces on moves 11 and 23 by sandwiching the pieces against empty basecamp squares. This seems to contradict the rule that "Empty base camp squares and the empty throne square are only hostile to the king, not to other pieces".
2015-11-24 15:34:28 Hagbard: Sorry, a bug, it should be corrected now.
2015-11-30 07:51:26 Hagbard: Anybody knows whether the king-hammer-only hnefatafl is still used on the island Unst?
2015-11-30 11:24:22 Hagbard: Altti completed Round 2.
2015-11-30 17:07:38 Hagbard: Arevidar completed Round 2.
2015-11-30 17:12:04 Hagbard: We have the first champion: Docbullen is the champion of Mithgarthr!
2015-11-30 19:38:52 Hagbard: Round 1 is completed. Steiger completed Round 2.
2015-12-02 11:50:49 Hagbard: Umpire, have we found the new Hnefatafl World Champion 2015?
2015-12-02 14:14:17 crust: Yes, regardless of the outcome of Adam v. Epoc, Adam has already won enough points to win the Championship (since the tie-break rules mean his 9 points beat my 9 points) - So... Adam is the World Hnefatafl Champion 2015! Many congratulations Adam!
2015-12-02 22:14:36 altti: congrats Adam
2015-12-03 12:11:20 Hagbard: Adam and Epoc completed Round 2.
2015-12-03 18:17:27 Hagbard: Congratulations to Adam! And a thank you to all participants for doing the tournament games faster. This time the winner was found a full month faster than last year.
2015-12-04 09:17:32 Adam: Thank you everyone for a brilliant tournament. A real nail biter!
2015-12-04 09:19:22 crust: Adam Bartley has won the title of World Tafl Federation Hnefatafl Champion 2015; he therefore also wins the title of Hnefatafl Grand Master. Our first Grand Master in Scandinavia! Many congratulations Adam, and also to the many other participants who have played such brilliant games.
2015-12-04 09:22:37 crust: Furthermore, thanks are due to Hagbard who has run our tournament so well. The fact that we generally don't notice you doing it, is just proof that you're doing it so well! Thank you Hagbard.
2015-12-04 16:38:24 Hagbard: Not at all!
2015-12-07 20:45:01 xerxes: Not just the tournament - we should remember that Hagbard puts a lot of time and effort into running the whole site.
2015-12-08 07:22:57 Hagbard: Thanks for the words! I see it as a sort of research project also. We are many who have learnt more about the tafl game in the process, and it's as if the game emerged clearer from the fogs of history.
2015-12-10 21:16:26 HELFRICH: what is the end date for joining tournament 47 (latest one)
2015-12-10 22:03:54 Hagbard: The invitation stands for ten days.
2015-12-10 23:21:46 HELFRICH: Danke!
2015-12-11 07:45:48 Hagbard: The "Full contents of the old forum (before update)" is more readable now: http://aagenielsen.dk/fullcontents_oldforum.html
2015-12-16 07:26:11 Hagbard: Five players for test of the Tablut Lewis cross is a bit on the low side. It would be better with at least a player more.
2015-12-16 09:07:25 Hagbard: A summary on the Saami Tablut: http://aagenielsen.dk/tablut_summary.php
2015-12-16 22:15:38 Hagbard: Thanks for stepping up the tourn. 47 to 6 players! After this one it should be possible to summarize the tawlbwrdd/tablut 11x11 game family.
2015-12-17 23:01:50 HELFRICH: Fun tournament cycle. Missed playing in many while I was on hiatus. Thanks for doing thus site. Every game of Tafl I ever played is here!
2015-12-18 17:32:04 Hagbard: :)
2015-12-19 08:12:34 Hagbard: Sybil is the champion of Utgarthr!
2015-12-19 20:04:22 Hagbard: The World Championship tournament 2015 is completed! 1.5 months faster than last year.
2015-12-21 23:59:39 HELFRICH: Can someone please explain the tourney tie breaker methodology in simple terms?
2015-12-23 08:46:47 Hagbard: Sonneborn-Berger is explained here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonneborn-Berger_score
2015-12-23 11:05:39 crust: Merry Christmas, God Jul and happy holidays to everyone! Teach someone hnefatafl this Christmas, and spread a bit of tafl happiness :)
2015-12-23 17:14:51 HELFRICH: lol, funny that no one can explain it in simple terms.
2015-12-23 21:43:39 Adam: God Jul! Happy holidays fellow players.
2015-12-24 00:57:00 docbullen: Happy christmas and god bless everyone especially Tiny Tim Millar (AKA Crust). Always up for a game if anyone is bored over the festive period. Finish work tomorrow so will have more tafl time (and I need the practice if my games are anything to go by). All the best XXX
2015-12-26 08:10:28 Hagbard: Sonneborn-Berger. If A and B won the same score of points: if the players beaten by A are stronger than the players beaten by B, then A wins.
2015-12-26 21:55:08 HELFRICH: As an example: In Tourney 40, Altti and Crust both had 20 points. Crust and Altti split their games. Altti also lost once to Xerxes (12 points), and Crust lost once to Animals (18 points). So Altti wins the tiebreaker because his 20 wins were against higher tourney ranked players (i.e., he beat Animals twice)??? Let me know if I interpreted this correctly. Thanks.
2015-12-26 23:31:50 Hagbard: That would be correct.
2015-12-27 17:33:55 HELFRICH: Thanks for the information and clarification.
2015-12-29 07:01:10 Hagbard: duhawk93 won the Sea battle cross 11x11 tournament.
2015-12-30 09:58:05 mmagari: buon anno a tutti! una domanda: le regole della versione Tafl Brandubh 7x7 (Irish Tafl) sono rimaste inalterate nel tempo? Grazie ______________________________ Happy New Year to all! a question: the rules of version tafl Brandubh 7x7 (Irish tafl) remained unchanged over time? Thank you Marco
2015-12-30 12:09:12 Hagbard: The Brandubh rules are the same on this site as from the beginning. Right now are tested three initial orderings of the pieces, but with same rules. At the very start some variations of the rules were also tested, but they were called "Brandubh-2" and "Brandubh-3".
2016-01-01 01:19:40 crust: Happy New Year everyone! Have a great 2016, with tons of hnefatafl!
2016-01-01 12:39:37 OdinHimself: Happy New Year folks!!!
2016-01-04 15:22:46 Hagbard: Crust won the Tablut Bell 11x11 tournament.
2016-01-06 11:01:22 Hagbard: Duhawk93, Altti and Helfrich won the Tablut T cross 11x11 tournament.
2016-01-07 09:59:30 crust: A three way tie! Well done all three!
2016-01-10 19:37:11 xerxes: Hagbard: In my game against Docbullen in T49 (Tablut Lewis diamond 11x11), Docbullen had a problem on his phone and has resigned when he did not need to. Is it possible to reverse the resignation ?
2016-01-10 19:59:32 Hagbard: yes, reversed
2016-01-10 21:11:29 xerxes: Many thanks Hagbard.
2016-01-16 14:13:01 Hagbard: NB! Structured forum is open for registering for 3 days!
2016-01-18 11:33:58 Hagbard: Added to gallery: photos from the river Tosna at Sct. Peterburg, anniversary of a year 1240 battle. Fine example of the shield wall.
2016-01-19 08:13:15 Hagbard: To new tafl players: please consider to send your email address to our World Tafl Federation chairman Tim Millar on anomalocharis AT hotmail DOT com , so that we have some contact information other than just an anonymous alias here.
2016-01-20 10:05:37 Hagbard: I see that Hnefatafl Championships 2016 on the island Fetlar is in planning: http://www.fetlar.org/hnefatafl-world-championship
2016-01-21 10:37:38 Hagbard: Here is the Quick Game Club, the players who move faster than the average: altti, Aluric, animals, AreVidar, crust, davis, fairland, Fraech, Hagbard, HELFRICH, Mamajumbo, OdinHimself, Steiger, Thanir, tonythebook, xerxes
2016-01-22 08:30:22 Hagbard: The button "Offer Quick Game" tightens the timing even more (reduces the time buffer), if you'd like to push for a quicker game.
2016-01-22 12:44:06 Hagbard: An evaluation of the WTF tournament 2015 is added in the forum.
2016-01-24 16:35:41 xerxes: A short article in the London Times on Friday Jan 15 about "Draken Harald Horfagre" - a 115ft Viking Ship that has been built and will be sailed from Norway to New York via Shetland, Iceland, and the east coast of Canada (ie broadly following the original route taken by the Vikings 1000 years ago). She looks a beautiful ship - if I can get to see her in Shetland I will. Anyone from this site know any more ? There is some more detail on Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/DrakenHaraldHarfagre/
2016-01-24 16:36:47 xerxes: Sorry, meant to say that the voyage of "Draken Harald Horfagre" is scheduled to start in May 2016.
2016-01-24 21:55:11 Hagbard: We've found a number of board setups with reasonable game balances. To find an overview, scroll down this page: http://aagenielsen.dk/hnefatafl_rules_overview.php
2016-01-28 09:04:07 Hagbard: The large forum is open for registering of users for three days.
2016-01-29 08:19:48 Hagbard: A summary of Brandubh tests added to the forum.
2016-01-29 10:18:05 xerxes: I like the new drawing on the entry page Hagbard. Is it of you ?
2016-01-29 12:54:06 Hagbard: @xerxes: Thanks for noticing the viking. Alas here are few such men these days, but the artist is family. As for "Draken Harald Horfagre", this is the first time I hear about the impressing viking ship, and I know no more than what is to be found in google. So now the Sea Stallion of Roskilde is no longer the largest viking ship in the world; the Roskilde ship has a crew of 60 men, and the Harald Horfagre has a crew of 100 men!
2016-01-31 22:52:55 crust: Does this affect this site?: h t t p s://blogs.oracle.com/java-platform-group/entry/moving_to_a_plugin_free
2016-01-31 23:09:28 Hagbard: Thanks! Yes it certainly does. Fortunately only the games against the computer, and not the games humans against humans. At the moment only Firefox works for me for games against the computer.
2016-02-01 12:25:45 mmagari: there exists a software to generate diagrams of positions Brandubh 7x7? thank you
2016-02-03 23:31:44 Hagbard: Xerxes won the Tablut Lewis cross 11x11 tournament!
2016-02-06 07:24:06 Hagbard: Altti won the Brandubh circle 7x7 tournament!
2016-02-09 13:34:14 Hagbard: Crust won the Tablut Lewis diamond 11x11 tournament.
2016-02-10 06:39:01 Hagbard: Duhawk93 won the Sea battle tafl 9x9 tournament. This test tournament revealed that the circle start setup is much better balanced than the T setup.
2016-02-17 08:45:29 Hagbard: There's a discussion about a live game mode on the large forum right now.
2016-02-21 06:39:19 Hagbard: The large forum is open for registering of users for three days.
2016-02-24 11:47:50 mmagari: How can I proceed to generate diagrams of 7x7 positions Brandubh the games against the computer? I do not think the site you can play against the computer at Brandubh 7x7 ... thanks
2016-02-24 14:09:22 Hagbard: @mmagari: that's true, Brandubh 7x7 cannot be played against the computer. When I've needed a diagram of some specific board position, I've started a game against myself using aliases test1 and test2 and then created the wanted position of pieces. But that's rather labourious; I believe that crust uses some simpler way.
2016-02-25 19:30:33 Fairland: Greetings Fellow Tafletes! I am back from a brief tafl vacation and ready to play again! challenges accepted. (Copenhägen and Brandubh only please)
2016-02-26 01:23:10 Hagbard: Welcome back, Fairland. Short games also possible now (live games)
2016-03-02 08:26:24 Hagbard: Hrafnblod asked for a "Member introductions" section in the large forum; it's added.
2016-03-02 22:00:18 Fairland: That was a good idea, I tried to comment, however. (in order to introduce myself and a hope to get introductions from a few of the senior members as well) but I couldn't comment. It said my username and password were not correct.
2016-03-03 00:01:19 Hagbard: Forum open for registration for 10 days.
2016-03-05 13:46:02 xerxes: I've put a few words about me in the Forum. Fairland: Note that the large forum password is not necessarily the same as your logon password to the main Tafl site.
2016-03-05 15:10:53 fairland: Xerxes, thanks for the help. It turns out I had never registered, it is waiting for administrator activation now according to the email.
2016-03-05 15:15:53 Hagbard: Activated
2016-03-07 17:56:24 Fairland: Alright! I got on there and posted a blurb as well. I would suggest we get as many senior members as possible to do that, as cumbersome as it may seem. That way we get a good picture of those who are willing to teach the younger generation of taflers from those who are so deep in the philosophy of advanced strategy that they don't find much time to play new guys. It would have been helpful for me on many occasion. Although Crust and Arne64 were two pivotal teachers for me in the early days.
2016-03-07 23:06:26 vonraider: Speaking of Crust, where did he go? He timed out on a game with me and he never does that.
2016-03-08 13:07:49 altti: he hasn't posted anything on the face book page since end of January.
2016-03-08 17:36:59 Fairland: He has been known to take a sabbatical every now and then. Wait patiently and he will pop up with a vengeance.
2016-03-09 08:11:59 Hagbard: If you're not registrated to the large forum yet, now is the time to do it. Opened for new registrations until March 13th; normally closed for registrations because of spam robots who are able to make automatic registrations round the clock.
2016-03-10 12:56:11 xerxes: Ref Crust, I can confirm he is OK - just having a bit of a break.
2016-03-10 16:02:42 vonraider: Glad to hear it.
2016-03-19 08:16:40 Hagbard: Altti won the Unst king hammer only cross 11x11 tournament. This was probably the first time ever that the Unst king has been tournament tested. The first mention of this type of king, which we know of, is by David Brown 1980.
2016-04-02 19:13:18 Hagbard: A second Viking site found in North America: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2016/03/160331-viking-discovery-north-america-canada-archaeology/
2016-04-02 20:19:28 cyningstan: That sounds exciting. I'll have to watch out for any hnefatafl finds. I ignored this story till now as the article I saw yesterday was dated 1st April.
2016-04-02 20:21:04 Hagbard: Right, I was suspicious also, but this one is March 31st.
2016-04-03 10:41:38 xerxes: There's a programme on UK BBC1 at 08:30 on Monday about it - 'Vikings Uncovered'.
2016-04-04 15:55:27 Fairland: If it is in Canada, it might be legitimate, but if it is set in the U.S. be skeptical, almost every "viking site" here is a forgery.
2016-04-05 08:45:03 Hagbard: Another, with short video, "New Viking site found in Newfoundland": http://www.theweathernetwork.com/news/articles/new-viking-site-found-in-newfoundland/65854
2016-04-08 22:36:42 altti: an episode of history channels the Vikings had a tafl game (looked like a 9x9) which lasted only a few moves and the king was captured. seems to have truncated the game a bit.
2016-04-09 17:22:32 cyningstan: I watched the BBC programme. I don't think we'll be seeing high-status finds like tafl remnants from there, any time soon. The evidence for Vikings consisted in metalworking residue; there were also bases of some turf walls. The site was in the south-west of Newfoundland.
2016-04-09 17:24:08 cyningstan: As for the Vikings, I've seen the clip. Let nobody who has enjoyed this series criticise the Vikings for not giving complete accounts of the rules in their narratives - we do much the same thing today :-)
2016-04-11 21:57:23 Tuireann: They showed people playing obscured games of tafl 3 times in Vikings. Could never get a good look at the game unfortunately. Probably intentional.
2016-04-18 16:53:04 Fairland: They should call the WTF and consult about the rules of the game and historical contexts (which, sadly, would probably lean toward edge escape.) Then they could call us in as a team to teach the actors how to tafl and have a more advanced discussion on the show.
2016-04-23 08:10:04 Hagbard: New registration for the large forum is opened for three days. (Usually closed because of spam robots).
2016-04-28 19:49:24 Hagbard: Duhawk93 won the Tablut 15x15 test tournament. A 15x15 tafl board was found in an archaeological excavation at Oslo, Norway (hat tip Adam Bartley), and this was probably the first time that such a board has been tournament tested. The game came out very balanced, -1.17 (117 black wins per 100 white wins).
2016-05-03 13:17:30 Hagbard: New registration for the large forum is opened for three days.
2016-05-06 07:33:24 Hagbard: Animals and Altti won the Magpie circle 7x7 test tournament.
2016-05-12 20:26:02 Hagbard: Altti won the Magpie cross 7x7 test tournament. All three Magpie setups are now tested and a summary put in the forum: http://aagenielsen.dk/hnefataflforum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=36&p=611#p611
2016-05-15 18:03:24 Hagbard: A note in the large forum about Welsh Tawlbwrdd.
2016-05-17 13:31:35 Hagbard: A note is put in the large forum about the Historical Hnefatafl.
2016-05-17 18:09:09 Hagbard: Any objections to renaming Brandubh to "Hist. Hnefatafl 7x7 (Irish Brandubh)", Tablut to "Hist. Hnefatafl 9x9 (Saami Tablut)", Tawlbwrdd to "Hist. Hnefatafl 11x11 (Welsh Tawlbwrdd)" ?
2016-05-17 19:43:08 altti: is this to discern differences within the variants initial setup? (cross, diamond, Lewis, ect...)
2016-05-17 20:50:35 Hagbard: @altti: Our tournament tests showed that these variants are very likely the historical variants. Brandubh (cross) is the only well balanced setup for brandubh. Saami Tablut, this setup was given directly by the Linné diary. Tawlbwrdd (Bell), only two setups are well balanced, and the Bell appears to be the more reasonable and probable of the two. And they all appear to be the same sole game, the historical Iron Age Hnefatafl, only played on various board sizes.
2016-05-17 21:02:37 sqAree: Hi, I'd like to know the current state of planning the WTF convention 2016.
2016-05-25 01:13:07 Hagbard: I see that Tuireann in the large forum mentions "what used to be called Tablut 11x11 here". I'll just mention that this is the game which was recently renamed to "Historical Hnefatafl 11x11 (Welsh Tawlbwrdd)".
2016-05-25 06:59:57 Tuireann: Indeed, I suppose I should have made that apparent myself.
2016-06-02 19:43:36 Hagbard: Now will be two test tournaments with the two competing setups of Welsh Tawlbwrdd. Which one provides the best tafl, one or the other, or both?
2016-06-06 16:36:51 fairland: Hey guys, I know this isn't what this forum is for, but many of you are very intelligent and might be able to help. What is the formal name of the Roman religion? As in pre Christianity.
2016-06-06 20:06:30 Tuireann: Typically pre-christian indo-European pagan mythologies were not as unified as we like to group them together today, considering that many of the Roman gods sprung up from separate cults that held popularity at various times throughout history, however typically 'Mos Majorum' can be used as a blanket term for everything from spiritual beliefs to how they defined their social structure and norms as they considered most of these things as one in the same through being derived from the traditions of their ancestors.
2016-06-06 20:15:36 Tuireann: Maiorum*
2016-06-14 11:51:16 Hagbard: World Tafl Federation on Facebook 403 likes!
2016-06-15 08:54:48 Hagbard: Duhawk93 won the Tawlbwrdd no throne 7x7 test tournament. A summary in the forum: http://aagenielsen.dk/hnefataflforum/viewtopic.php?f=1&p=638#p638
2016-06-22 05:24:51 altti: Ard Ri is poetically beautiful in its simplicity. Using a throne, I found it to be unplayable.
2016-06-23 13:05:02 Hagbard: Altti won the Copenhagen Hnefatafl Bell 11x11 test tournament. Summary in the forum.
2016-06-30 01:21:29 Hagbard: Draken Harald Hårfagre is now in Toronto. Video from voyage Greenland - New Foundland: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UWSj0R-7lE
2016-07-01 16:15:01 Hagbard: A couple of notes in the forum about the World Tafl Federation Championship 2016: http://aagenielsen.dk/hnefataflforum/viewtopic.php?f=4&p=647#p640
2016-07-02 21:33:17 Hagbard: Tuireann, Xerxes and Animals won the Unst Alea Evangelii 19x19 test tournament. Summary in the forum.
2016-07-02 23:52:28 altti: I like the proposed Tablut first round for championship.
2016-07-03 10:14:26 Hagbard: I'd like to ask the players: Which of the Historical Hnefatafl games do you think work the best: Brandubh 7x7, Ard Ri 7x7, Tablut 9x9, Tawlbwrdd 1 11x11 (Bell) or Tawlbwrdd 2 11x11 (Lewis cross)?
2016-07-03 11:00:22 Tuireann: I think Tawlbwrdd 1 creates more interesting games with Tablut as a close second. I'm not fully convinced of the balance of Ard Ri, although I really enjoy the game I find it very fickle, and I have made some pretty unbelievable victories from behind on Tawlbwrdd 2 as black. I've only ever played 4 games of Brandubh so I don't really know the game well.
2016-07-05 04:06:08 vonraider: Tablut 9X9.
2016-07-05 18:51:14 Sigurd: Between Tawlbwrdd Bell & Lewis Cross it's close, but I'll go with Bell at this point. More games of each are needed though. I'm hoping they both hold up.
2016-07-06 16:43:41 Tuireann: What's with this user I'm playing against whose name changes every day and I can only lose points against them but not win any?
2016-07-06 22:33:06 Hagbard: @Tuireann: there has been a small problem with this name, but it's the same player. As for points: when an opponent player is quite new, the amount of win/lose points is very small. In this case about 0 points for win and about -1 points for loss.
2016-07-06 22:34:53 Tuireann: Ah. Was really bizarre.
2016-07-07 09:07:19 Hagbard: To the players: What do you think about the two tawlbrwdds? Does one work better than the other?
2016-07-08 11:10:10 Hagbard: What about the tournament on the island Fetlar? Less than a month to their usual date, and the home page still says in planning. And what about the Caithness Viking Festival which is running right now? There should be a Hnefatafl tournament there? Also there uses to be a display of Hnefatafl at the Tønsberg Middelaldersfestival?
2016-07-08 20:05:41 xerxes: There was no tafl going on at the Caithness Viking Festival from Sat-Mon, maybe something later in the week, but not advertised.
2016-07-10 16:48:26 xerxes: Hagbard, a suggestion for next time you are updating the site - would it be possible to have a link to the appropriate tournament in the 'Tournament Overview' page from a tournament game in the list of 'My Current Games' ?
2016-07-11 01:51:29 Tuireann: I believe the short form rules that appear in the games for the latest sea battle tournament are incorrect. They say king armed but the king does not appear to be armed.
2016-07-11 09:02:12 Hagbard: @xerxes: it's put on the todo list. @Tuireann: a text error, corrected, thanks for telling.
2016-07-11 09:06:39 Hagbard: Altti won the Hist. Hnef. Lewis cross 11x11 (Welsh Tawlbwrdd 2) tournament.
2016-07-12 00:06:14 altti: went to Estonian summercamp this weekend to teach the children Tafl. I used Ard Ri and Tablut for demo and gave them printouts of other variant rulesets to play on their own. they enjoyed it very much.
2016-07-12 10:55:26 Hagbard: Championship tournament 2016 is announced above, two rounds planned using Tawlbwrdd and Copenhagen rules, details in the large forum. Any comments? @Altti: good news.
2016-07-12 18:39:59 Sigurd: @Altti: Cool. How did leading with Ard Ri and then Tablut work with their ability to pick up the concept of the throne? Any difficulty at all?
2016-07-13 00:45:27 altti: @ Sigurd: it was easier to have only movement, capture and objectives to absorb on the first game. then the addition of throne with its change in capture strategies, and the exit at corner on the following game made it much faster to teach, with fewer questions. fewer variables and less confusion.
2016-07-15 14:23:34 fairland: How young were the children? I may be able to use a similar strategy with 15-16 year olds or do you think I would be over-simplifying?
2016-07-15 20:26:53 HELFRICH: Hello All. When will "registration" for the 2016 championship start. Sorry if I missed an earlier post that explains it. Last year I got the dates mixed up and missed the tourney altogether. Do not want to miss the 2016 ordeal!
2016-07-15 20:45:13 test1: Joins the World Tafl Federation tournament 2016
2016-07-15 20:52:59 test2: Joins the World Tafl Federation tournament 2016.
2016-07-15 20:55:52 Hagbard: If the players are impatient: The registration button is added now.
2016-07-15 20:57:40 test2: Joins the World Tafl Federation Championship Tournament 2016.
2016-07-15 21:51:29 HELFRICH: are you allowing duplicate or double players? I thought that was forbidden?
2016-07-15 21:57:40 HELFRICH: Joins the World Tafl Federation Championship Tournament 2016.
2016-07-15 22:24:43 Hagbard: It is forbidden. Each player to participate with only one name.
2016-07-15 22:35:50 altti: @Fairland: 7 to 15yrs. the older kids were interested in additional variants very quickly.
2016-07-15 22:36:20 altti: Joins the World Tafl Federation Championship Tournament 2016.
2016-07-15 22:41:59 HELFRICH: Joins the World Tafl Federation Championship Tournament 2016.
2016-07-15 22:42:08 Tuireann: Joins the World Tafl Federation Championship Tournament 2016.
2016-07-15 23:47:31 Steiger: Joins the World Tafl Federation Championship Tournament 2016.
2016-07-16 00:46:54 2016Champ: Joins the World Tafl Federation Championship Tournament 2016.
2016-07-16 00:49:00 Teondrae: Joins the World Tafl Federation Championship Tournament 2016.
2016-07-16 07:41:00 Teondrae: I'm back at the game real rusty. But i still first 2 games i beat a guy that has a rating at 1600 lol. Black and white. Where is Crust I challenge him again?!?!?!
2016-07-16 08:14:13 Tuireann: I don't play copenhagen believe me you have nothing to brag about.
2016-07-16 17:21:12 xerxes: Joins the World Tafl Federation Championship Tournament 2016.
2016-07-16 22:51:09 Steiger: Joins the World Tafl Federation Championship Tournament 2016.
2016-07-17 00:03:26 Hagbard: Registered for the tournament: HELFRICH, altti, Tuireann, Steiger, Teondrae, xerxes
2016-07-17 23:16:43 animals: I do have to question how it's possible to have a rating of 1907 having completed three games!?
2016-07-17 23:19:14 Hagbard: "Sigurd-2" is a clone of "Sigurd" (rating at the time 1907) for testing.
2016-07-17 23:32:09 animals: Joins the World Tafl Federation Championship Tournament 2016.
2016-07-18 00:39:34 altti: congrats to Sigurd with a clean sweep
2016-07-18 14:40:06 HELFRICH: clone profiles should be disallowed.
2016-07-18 15:39:41 Hagbard: @HELFRICH: Very difficult subject. Often very high rated players tend to hesitate taking too many chances with the rating and therefore play fewer games and fewer variants. This is not good, because the games of these players are a great help in finding the game balances and give valuable experience about how variants work.
2016-07-19 02:07:16 HELFRICH: Thanks for the info. I have not played everyone listed but I can vouch that the higher rated players are very very good. Protecting their rating seems a bit bizarre since they should be able to regain 'points' by feasting on we bottom feeders. ;-] -- Also numerous under rated players listed but I suspect the top guns know whom they are!
2016-07-19 05:17:41 fairland: @helfrich: The problem is that they really don't. Beating the lower guys only gets them some two points per victory. The only way to stay on top is to continue hacking at other top players or your right on bottom again. @altti: thanks for the tip!
2016-07-19 08:10:05 Kratzer: Joins the World Tafl Federation Championship Tournament 2016.
2016-07-21 17:14:55 Plantagenet: My other profiles are "Cthulhu" and "Wotan".
2016-07-24 05:32:34 Patterson: Joins the World Tafl Federation Championship Tournament 2016.
2016-07-24 11:47:38 Hagbard: Joins the World Tafl Federation Championship Tournament 2016.
2016-07-24 16:39:31 test1: Joins the World Tafl Federation Championship Tournament 2016.
2016-07-24 18:04:06 fjorlag: Joins the World Tafl Federation Championship Tournament 2016.
2016-07-25 11:59:34 test1: Joins the World Tafl Federation Championship Tournament 2016.
2016-07-25 12:33:09 altti: the board position needs to be visible on the final move confirmation page.
2016-07-25 19:29:06 Hagbard: It's a bit complicated to do. Better if the player takes a good last look at the board, as usual, before he presses Send. The Yes only means "Yes it's right, I did press the Send button."
2016-07-26 09:00:14 Hagbard: Sigurd won the Historical Hnefatafl Bell 11x11 test tournament. Summary in the forum: http://aagenielsen.dk/hnefataflforum/viewtopic.php?f=1&p=660#p660
2016-07-26 09:45:21 Hagbard: Still no date for a Quick Play Championship on the island Fetlar?
2016-07-29 18:17:35 crust: Greetings all! Off to Sutton Hoo (Suffolk, UK) for the English National Hnefatafl championship, on Sunday. I'll report back afterwards!
2016-07-29 18:36:13 Hagbard: Good to hear!! Good luck and best wishes for a successful tournament!
2016-07-30 00:25:31 Tuireann: The site's host is having a bad Friday I suspect... hehe...
2016-07-30 22:08:20 BigWurm91: Joins the World Tafl Federation Championship Tournament 2016.
2016-07-31 00:09:33 BigWurm91: Joins the World Tafl Federation Championship Tournament 2016.
2016-07-31 07:14:49 Hagbard: Altti won the Sea battle circle 11x11 test tournament and the game worked well, with a game balance of +1.30
2016-08-01 01:37:02 crust: Congratulations to Steve Lonsdale (known to us as "Xerxes"), who won the 2016 English National Hnefatafl championship at Sutton Hoo on Sunday. The junior title was won again by Oliver Wilson.
2016-08-01 10:50:03 xerxes: And thanks to Tim Miller and Pete Jennings for organising the championship.
2016-08-01 15:46:22 Hagbard: Congratulations to Xerxes, new English Champion! Don't hesitate to register for the WTF Championship, it's planned for about 36 participants.
2016-08-01 23:07:48 BigWurm91: Joins the World Tafl Federation Championship Tournament 2016.
2016-08-02 02:52:19 2016Champ: Joins the World Tafl Federation Championship Tournament 2016.
2016-08-04 16:23:51 crust: Off to teach hnefatafl at the Asgardian festival near Leicester, UK. There will be a tournament on Sunday, Copenhagen rules naturally. I've made a trophy that says "Asgardian Hnefatafl Champion 2016", I'll let you know how it goes :) I hope to see Bainn there and also Pete Jennings from Sutton Hoo. cheers!
2016-08-04 18:59:45 Hagbard: Herjan won the Sea battle tafl 15x15 test tournament. Also this game worked all right, balance +1.30. This was the last of the Sea battle tests for now, thanks for help testing!
2016-08-05 22:21:54 Hagbard: Only 12 for the World Tournament?
2016-08-06 00:53:00 Tuireann: Currently at the Dublin(Ohio) Irish Festival where they will be teaching Brandubh shortly!
2016-08-06 01:32:06 Hagbard: Will there be a couple of photos?
2016-08-06 01:45:55 Tuireann: Way ahead of you :)
2016-08-06 08:39:29 Tuireann: Made a little post about my experience helping to teach Brandubh at the Dublin(Ohio) Irish Festival http://aagenielsen.dk/hnefataflforum/viewtopic.php?f=4&p=664
2016-08-06 09:48:50 Hagbard: Thanks!!!
2016-08-06 09:53:23 Tuireann: No problem! For the love of Tafl!
2016-08-06 10:11:37 Tuireann: Fyrir Ast Tafl! in modern Icelandic. I like this so it shall be my new battle cry considering that Icelandic is the closest to Old Norse that we have!
2016-08-07 08:04:22 Hagbard: Animals and Xerxes won the Brandubh circle no throne 7x7 test tournament. The game balance is somewhat uncertain but so far it's -2.0, that is unbalanced in favour of black.
2016-08-07 21:16:51 Gjallarhorn: Joins the World Tafl Federation Championship Tournament 2016.
2016-08-07 21:17:59 Gjallarhorn: Joins the World Tafl Federation Championship Tournament 2016.
2016-08-07 21:24:03 Gjallarhorn: Joins the World Tafl Federation Championship Tournament 2016.
2016-08-07 23:53:39 crust: Joins the World Tafl Federation Championship Tournament 2016.
2016-08-08 21:17:06 Adam: Joins the World Tafl Federation Championship Tournament 2016.
2016-08-09 10:29:48 crust: Hello everyone; very quick report from the Asgardian Heathen Festival, Leicestershire, UK.. We played a lot of hnefatafl, including Brandubh and 13x13 sea-battle, which were both more popular than I expected. Although there was lots of interest, the tournament was very small - only four players. Tournament was by Copenhagen rules, won by Steve Moss with a white edge-fort, and the runner-up was Craig Brooks, who will be joining us for the World Championship here. Welcome, Gjallarhorn!
2016-08-10 23:38:05 2016Champ: Joins the World Tafl Federation Championship Tournament 2016.
2016-08-10 23:38:07 2016Champ: Joins the World Tafl Federation Championship Tournament 2016.
2016-08-10 23:38:18 2016Champ: Joins the World Tafl Federation Championship Tournament 2016.
2016-08-10 23:38:21 2016Champ: Joins the World Tafl Federation Championship Tournament 2016.
2016-08-10 23:38:24 2016Champ: Joins the World Tafl Federation Championship Tournament 2016.
2016-08-10 23:38:27 2016Champ: Joins the World Tafl Federation Championship Tournament 2016.
2016-08-11 07:22:33 Hagbard: @2016Champ: You are registered with your other name "Teondrae". Do you prefer the name "2016Champ"?
2016-08-12 00:43:03 AreVidar: Joins the World Tafl Federation Championship Tournament 2016.
2016-08-13 01:40:56 Mykle: Joins the World Tafl Federation Championship Tournament 2016.
2016-08-13 02:02:12 Mykle: Joins the World Tafl Federation Championship Tournament 2016.
2016-08-13 03:36:51 vonraider: Joins the World Tafl Federation Championship Tournament 2016.
2016-08-15 11:19:39 sybil: Joins the World Tafl Federation Championship Tournament 2016.
2016-08-15 21:38:18 RBerenguel: Joins the World Tafl Federation Championship Tournament 2016.
2016-08-17 07:08:16 OdinHimself: Tim, thank you for shareing my facebook link at the WTF website, much appreciated, my friend!
2016-08-17 09:10:13 crust: You're welcome, Lucho - nice to see you on TV! The sailing-ship tafl pieces look great.
2016-08-17 11:45:37 Hagbard: @OdinHimself: I saw the video with your tafl games and interview. Thanks, it's impressing!
2016-08-17 16:39:34 OdinHimself: Thank you, more will come soon! ;)
2016-08-18 10:47:57 Hagbard: Altti won the Brandubh cross no throne 7x7 test tournament. The game balance is somewhat uncertain but so far it's -2.75, that is unbalanced in favour of black.
2016-08-18 12:04:42 crust: it makes sense - without the safe squares around the throne, the king is in much more danger. Congratulations Altti!
2016-08-18 15:31:09 GavinBegbie: Joins the World Tafl Federation Championship Tournament 2016.
2016-08-18 18:55:12 herjan: Joins the World Tafl Federation Championship Tournament 2016.
2016-08-19 08:02:58 Hagbard: @herjan: I believe that herjan and fjorlag are the same. But herjan is the more used name, and to be used in the tournament?
2016-08-19 16:51:08 crust: welcome GavinBegbie! Glad you are joining us! ~Tim
2016-08-19 18:45:56 OdinHimself: So, in Welsh version of the game the king is captured when flanked on both sides as any other paw, am I correct ? Except when at or next the throne where enemies must surround him by four and three sides.
2016-08-19 19:28:52 Tuireann: @OdinHimself, correct.
2016-08-19 20:29:11 cyningstan: I've just put a post in the large forum Announcements section about a face-to-face tournament next year that some of you might be interested in.
2016-08-19 21:49:19 OdinHimself: Thanks bud. :)
2016-08-20 00:00:43 Tuireann: @OdinHimself, good to see you since the demise of kingstafl! I was tyraindreams over there.
2016-08-20 07:32:55 OdinHimself: Yes I know you're the same person :) Have you any idea what happened to Kingstafl?
2016-08-20 08:00:39 crust: I was also wondering what happened to kingstafl....
2016-08-21 20:15:03 Tuireann: No idea. One day it just stopped working.
2016-08-22 02:39:10 altti: I've been searching for the rulesets of "old hnefatafl 9x9","Rachunek tafl 9x9", "Ashton Tablut 9x9", skalk hnefatafl 9x9 (expo media)", "seabattle tafl 9x9 (imperial contest)" they appear on the measured tafl game balances listing, but I can't find any rules.
2016-08-22 10:57:08 Hagbard: @altti: You're right. Those still in use are now added to the Rules page and the rest are added to the balance page (bottom).
2016-08-22 13:15:08 altti: thank you Hagbard. I am making a set of boards with rulesets printed at the bottom. this will be useful at demos
2016-08-22 13:43:32 Hagbard: - But those, which rules were not listed, are not "Main Stream" here. They were tested and not found to be as well working and/or logical as the selected collection of variants.
2016-08-22 14:47:54 altti: yes that is borne out in the balances. I plan to make them available as part of the history of Hnefatafl in the modern games evolution. in Rachunek, how does the throne play; is there re-enter and free passage?
2016-08-22 14:57:20 Hagbard: Rachunek: "After the king leaves his throne, no piece can move to the throne (nor the king). However, a piece can go 'over' the throne and finish its move behind it" https://brainking.com/dk/GameRules?tp=19
2016-08-22 15:18:17 altti: has Rachunek been test both "circle" and "T", "cross" and "square"?
2016-08-22 15:47:14 altti: to be a pest once more.....is there re-enter and free passage in Old Hnefatafl 9x9, and Skalk 9x9 (expo media)?
2016-08-22 16:40:22 Hagbard: Rachunek: only the one setup from BrainKing is tested. Old Hnefatafl and Skalk: "normal" throne, i.e. both re-enter and free passage.
2016-08-23 13:25:54 Hagbard: Room for many more championship participants. If you weren't to make it to the Asgarthr Final, no worries, you'll have the Round 2 in Mith- or Utgarthr.
2016-08-24 03:12:14 TheBloodyJarl: Joins the World Tafl Federation Championship Tournament 2016.
2016-08-24 21:58:56 Wægn: Joins the World Tafl Federation Championship Tournament 2016.
2016-08-25 10:00:38 Hagbard: This is just some of those who maybe might be expected for the tournament but haven't enlisted yet: Plantagenet, Sigurd, mmagari, OdinHimself, sqaree, duhawk93, Thanir, Epoc, docbullen, Oddur, tonythebook, Anto2016, Tamarisco, Fraech, Agmundr, imaxuncut, Torc, Aluric
2016-08-25 14:37:49 Ded Fomich: Joins the World Tafl Federation Championship Tournament 2016.
2016-08-25 15:16:04 Ded Fomich: Joins the World Tafl Federation Championship Tournament 2016.
2016-08-26 01:12:48 Teondrae: Joins the World Tafl Federation Championship Tournament 2016.
2016-08-26 19:09:16 Aluric: Joins the World Tafl Federation Championship Tournament 2016.
2016-08-28 08:23:53 Fraech: Joins the World Tafl Federation Championship Tournament 2016.
2016-08-28 08:24:21 tonythebook: Joins the World Tafl Federation Championship Tournament 2016.
2016-08-28 19:04:00 Hagbard: Notice: The time limit for registering for the Championship Tournament is August 31st 24:00 Danish time.
2016-08-28 19:27:18 Chalhub: Joins the World Tafl Federation Championship Tournament 2016.
2016-08-28 19:32:18 Chalhub: Joins the World Tafl Federation Championship Tournament 2016.
2016-08-28 20:02:24 OdinHimself: Joins the World Tafl Federation Championship Tournament 2016.
2016-08-28 20:12:46 Fellhuhn: Joins the World Tafl Federation Championship Tournament 2016.
2016-08-28 20:50:47 Chalhub: Joins the World Tafl Federation Championship Tournament 2016.
2016-08-29 10:29:41 Agmundr: Joins the World Tafl Federation Championship Tournament 2016.
2016-08-30 10:00:20 Hagbard: Some of those who maybe might be expected for the Championship Tournament but haven't enlisted yet: Plantagenet, Sigurd, mmagari, sqaree, duhawk93, Thanir, Epoc, docbullen, Oddur, Anto2016, Fairland, imaxuncut, Torc, Tamarisco. The time limit for registering is August 31st 24:00 Danish time.
2016-08-31 03:08:15 Sigurd: Joins the World Tafl Federation Championship Tournament 2016.
2016-08-31 18:40:38 tonythebook: Joins the World Tafl Federation Championship Tournament 2016.
2016-09-01 01:00:17 crust: Good luck in the Championship tournament, to all those who are playing!
2016-09-01 08:13:09 crust: Hagbard, Waegn appears to be missing from the Fornebei group tournament board; I know he's in Fornebei group because his two games against me appear on my games page
2016-09-01 09:12:40 Hagbard: An 'æ' coding problem, I'm about to make a hack to fix it, but thanks for reporting!
2016-09-01 14:44:04 Hagbard: The first Round 1 game is completed: Animals / Gjallarhorn !
2016-09-01 17:35:08 fairland: Guys, I signed up months ago but I am not in the tournament. HELP!!!
2016-09-01 19:11:09 Hagbard: Fixed.
2016-09-01 20:44:21 Fairland: Thank you!
2016-09-01 21:48:54 Tuireann: That is quite an impressively large tournament page :P
2016-09-02 13:43:21 Hagbard: Altti and Hagbard won the Brandubh Ohio weak 7x7 test tournament. A summary is written in the forum: http://aagenielsen.dk/hnefataflforum/viewtopic.php?f=4&p=679#p679
2016-09-03 09:23:40 crust: Three players signed up for the tournament and have not yet shown up to play: RBerenguel, GavinBegbie and Chalhub. I've sent GavinBegbie a message through facebook, but don't have any way of contacting the others - is anyone in touch with them?
2016-09-03 09:27:33 crust: ...and Herjan too has yet to start playing - but I can message him through FB
2016-09-05 09:07:04 crust: Great to see Herjan and GavinBegbie have started their championship matches; still no sign of Chalhub or RBerenguel. There have been some interesting games already!
2016-09-08 17:50:33 crust: everyone please feel free to chat either here or in your games - I know it's the world championship, but it doesn't have to be solemn! :) Also, it's a good way of distracting your opponent so they're more likely to make a mistake ;)
2016-09-08 21:03:43 Tuireann: All shall fall before the might of Tuireann!!! :p
2016-09-09 08:12:32 Hagbard: RBerenguel and Chalhub did not move at all during the first eight days and are removed from the tournament.
2016-09-09 08:27:01 Hagbard: Crust is first to qualify for Asgarthr.
2016-09-09 09:03:25 crust: @Hagbard, Great!! thank you..:) @Tuireann, we'll see about that!! (*sharpens axe*)
2016-09-09 15:52:23 altti: both of my games with Teondrae ended but I lost 11 points just waiting for opponents move?
2016-09-09 17:12:24 Hagbard: @altti: I'll check it later today.
2016-09-10 06:46:33 Hagbard: Teondrae caused more than half of his Round 1 games to time out and is disqualified. The timeouts did not affect other players negatively.
2016-09-13 20:34:25 Hagbard: TheBloodyJarl caused more than half of his Round 1 games to time out and is disqualified.
2016-09-14 18:37:23 Hagbard: Agmundr is first to complete all Round 1 games.
2016-09-15 14:28:02 crust: well done Agmundr! I've got one game still ongoing - a titanic clash with Odinhimself, already 103 moves long, and I can't tell who is winning yet! Great tournament everybody, there have been some awesome traps and tactics going on!
2016-09-15 22:15:45 Agmundr: Thanks Crust! Looking forward to the next round! Not important in what group. Good luck everyone in the tournament!
2016-09-16 14:17:40 mmagari: è davvero indecoroso vedere come alcuni giocatori si nascondano sotto diversi pseudonimi... est vraiment inconvenante voir comment certains joueurs se cachent sous divers alias ... is really unseemly see how some players are hiding under various aliases ...
2016-09-16 15:25:25 Hagbard: 71% of Round 1 is completed, so with some luck the round could be finished around Sep. 23rd.
2016-09-17 09:39:54 Hagbard: New registration for the large forum is opened for three days! (Usually closed because of spam robots).
2016-09-18 02:16:36 Waegn: Is there anyway to get rid of my extra alias? I dimwittedly tried to change my "ae" to "æ" and unfortunately succeeded. So now there are two of me.
2016-09-18 02:18:37 Waegn: I have no problem with losing rating as long as I end up as just one of me.
2016-09-18 07:44:46 Hagbard: I'll have a look later today
2016-09-18 14:07:37 Hagbard: @Waegn: New rating, weighted average.
2016-09-18 22:15:39 Waegn: Thanks, Hagbard!
2016-09-19 20:38:25 Hagbard: Xerxes qualified for Asgarthr.
2016-09-19 21:39:13 Tuireann: congrats Xerxes!
2016-09-20 00:44:32 crust: well done xerxes..
2016-09-20 07:15:08 Hagbard: Tuireann qualified for Asgarthr.
2016-09-20 09:21:38 xerxes: Thanks - and congrats to Tuireann. We had some good games in Fornebei, particularly with Odinhimself who was unlucky not to get through.
2016-09-20 09:33:22 Hagbard: It seems that there might be some heavy tafl sharks in Midgarthr round 2.
2016-09-20 14:53:16 crust: I had a fantastic game with Odinhimself in the Fornebei group (he played white, I was black) - although I won, it was incredibly close and both of us were doing all sorts of traps and tricks... it's a pity the tie-break rules are against him. Also, well done Tuireann, only Adam can possibly catch up with you in the Tunsberg group
2016-09-20 16:10:32 altti: congrats to Xerxes, Tuireann, and all those who have not yet finished but have none-the-less certainly qualified for Asgarthr.
2016-09-20 16:26:46 altti: my picks for Asgarthr: Tuireann, Adam, Xerxes, Odinhimself, Crust, Animals, Hagbard, Herjan, Bigwurm91, Sigurd. see you in Midgarthr.
2016-09-20 16:34:37 crust: I agree with Altti's list - I think Sigurd and Adam will win enough points to get to the Asgarthr group; - Midgarthr looks like it will be fun too, with "heavy tafl sharks" as Hagbard puts it :)
2016-09-20 19:07:47 OdinHimself: crust, you could post our epic Welsh game somewhere or make a detailed analysis move by move if you have some free time in future, I think it will be fun and useful for other players to take a look at it... :)
2016-09-20 20:16:36 Hagbard: I agree with Altti's list also, but only eight of them it will be, because of the two additional ways of disolving ties. The rest will add to the vigor of the Midgarth battle.
2016-09-21 04:17:25 altti: ahh I see that Adam may lose his position to Steiger. Odinhimself and Hagbard will be joining us on Midgarthr then. it's going to be quite a battle for supremacy of the mortal world.
2016-09-21 04:39:12 altti: I've been curious of the Ard Ri ratings table. it must not be a simple task to calculate these tables, as I see they get reposted only occasionally. I do like to see where I place in competition per variant. thank you Hagbard. both Damian and Tim have noted your statistical diligence.
2016-09-21 09:07:27 Hagbard: Bigwurm91 qualified for Asgarthr.
2016-09-21 11:23:12 crust: nice one, Bigwurm91!
2016-09-21 17:25:28 HELFRICH: Regarding future tournament planning: May I suggest that some requirement be placed before entry into the championship tourney such as a minimum of 50 rated games played? This would help eliminate last minute fake profiles and and false ratings, as well as discourage those not serious about competing. With the number of entries this year, it perhaps would have been a good policy to have five or six groups (max of six in any first round group). This could have spread out the number of "masters" of the game and allowed the best to compete in the final round (which is what the WTF may really be seeking). Also fewer numbers in groups would have enhanced or quickened round completion times. Additionally, the championship rounds should be the same game variant. With the number of anticipated "masters" playing in the Midgard grouping, it does not seem to be a very level playing field. This should not be perceived as a complaint but rater as a stated suggestions for next year.
2016-09-21 17:27:22 HELFRICH: sorry for the typos -- will repost
2016-09-21 17:28:53 HELFRICH: 2016-09-21 17:25:28 HELFRICH: Regarding future tournament planning: May I suggest that some requirement be placed before entry into the championship tourney such as a minimum of 50 rated games played? This would help eliminate last minute fake profiles and false ratings, as well as discourage those not serious about competing. With the number of entries this year, it perhaps would have been a good policy to have five or six groups (max of six in any first round group). This could have spread out the number of "masters" of the game and allowed the best to compete in the final round (which is what the WTF may really be seeking). Also fewer numbers in groups would have enhanced or quickened round completion times. Additionally, the championship rounds should be the same game variant. With the number of anticipated "masters" playing in the Midgard grouping, it does not seem to be a very level playing field. This should not be perceived as a complaint but rather as a stated suggestions for next year.
2016-09-21 17:59:01 xerxes: @Helfrich: I agree that there needs to be some way of filtering out those who are not serious about entering or completing their games - a minimum number of completed games is a good idea - and perhaps an entry fee would help too ? Duplicate user names could be discouraged by an annual subscription (which would also cover Hagbard's costs in hosting the site. Any undisclosed double entries should result in both user names being deleted from the federation if found out. I disagree with your reference to 'the masters' of the game - unless by 'master' you mean 'master of Copenhagen' - the other forms are no less valid in my view. I'd prefer to see the World Championship being played over two or three variants, with the final group members playing each other over those two or three variants. Admittedly that would make it a lot longer, but we could start the preliminary rounds in January !
2016-09-21 18:09:24 HELFRICH: By 'masters' I was referring to the very high rated players as well as those designated by this very site as such.
2016-09-21 18:14:14 animals: I'm in general agreement with Helfrich. Assuming Copenhagen is the preferred format for the championship, it seems unfair that good Copenhagen rules players are unable to reach Asgarthr because they may be weaker in another format (the triathlon event provides a better test for players with a wider range of interest/ability). The various tournaments that are available through the year can encourage new and developing players, and the annual championship should be regarded as a serious competition that people enter with the intention of completing their games; and (if we are getting fake entries / false ratings) a minimum number of games may well improve the situation. Using Copenhagen for both rounds is likely to lengthen the whole competition, but (even though I tend to be a faster player) the championship tournament should take as long as it needs to for the best player to win (which unfortunately won't be me).
2016-09-21 18:27:25 animals: I'm also in agreement with Xerxes idea of a subscription; however, I'd like to see separate the current (Copenhagen) championship, and a separate championship involving a variety of formats. This could of course be extended to a series of tournaments held throughout the year, of which the current championship was just one part, with points being awarded for each individual tournament. In this way, there could be a champion for each format, as well as an overall champion.
2016-09-21 21:32:01 xerxes: I think Animals makes some good points re different a Copenhagen championship and the other formats. The World Tafl Federation facebook page describes it as being for the ‘promotion, development and enjoyment of tafl games: hnefatafl, tablut, brandubh etc.’. In my view that means we should not favour Copenhagen over any other particular format/variant. I’ve no problem with a ‘Copenhagen’ Championship – and an associated ‘Copenhagen Champion’ - but in my view we should not limit ourselves to that format for the World Championships. I accept that there are those good Copenhagen players who may be disadvantaged by having to qualify for Asgarthr by finishing in the top two of their Tawlbwrdd Bell 11x11 group, but I know of at least two players who are currently in the top 20 of the ratings who did not enter the World Championships because they do not like playing Copenhagen. The only way to ensure we have the top 8 ‘masters’ in Asgarthr group is to put them there to start with and leave the rest of us out of it. Looking at the top 20 in the ratings (as I type - I don’t have the numbers for the start of the tournament), and discounting those who did not enter and those that have completed fewer than 20 rated games, the current groups seem evenly balanced: Tunsberg has 2 of the top 8 and 3 of the top 10; Vinland has 2 of the top 5 and 3 of the top 12; Fornebei has 2 of the top 8 and 3 of the top 11; Heithabyr has 2 of the top 7 and 3 of the top 13. If we are going to end u
2016-09-21 21:36:38 xerxes: (Sorry - didn't realise there was a length limit here !). If we are going to end up with 8 in Asgathyr, then the qualifying groups have successfully seeded the top 8 into the qualifying positions. There are many formats of the game, each with their strengths, weaknesses, tactics, and specialists - we should be trying to get as many participants as we can into the competitions and that means including as many variants as is practical. (A long post - perhaps we should move this discussion to the large forum ?)
2016-09-21 23:39:50 Hagbard: @altti: you're now in the Ard Ri ratings table. The tables are short because, only players who completed at least 24 games of the variant are shown.
2016-09-21 23:52:03 altti: I like the multiple variant tournament (possibly beginning in Jan. and continuing until completed...) with Ard Ri, Seabattle 9x9, Seabattle 11x11, Tawlbwrdd 11x11(no throne) in their own tournament. Saami-Tablut, Tablut 11x11 in their own. Brandubh, Skalk9x9 or Old Hnefatafl 9x9, Copenhagen and Fetlar. in the final set. Or, alternatively, perhaps the site features one variant per month for competition? personally, as a multi-variant tourney line-up, I prefer; Ard-Ri, Tawlbrwdd 11x11(no throne), Saami-Tablut, Brandubh, Copenhagen.
2016-09-21 23:57:20 Hagbard: Interesting discussion. I copied it all to the large forum and opened up for new registrations. Fx. are Altti, Helfrich and Xerxes not registered in the large forum yet.
2016-09-21 23:58:31 altti: @ Hagbard. Thank you. To encourage more play on those variants, perhaps Tournaments....☺
2016-09-22 06:16:10 Tuireann: I was hoping there would be a Tablut tournament some time after the championship was over. :p
2016-09-22 06:17:23 HELFRICH: Instructions on how to register in the large forum please and thanks
2016-09-22 07:34:15 Hagbard: You click the button "Forum", then click "Register" and fill out the details.
2016-09-22 16:40:06 HELFRICH: Thanks. I did that but did not see any results. will check again.
2016-09-22 16:42:40 HELFRICH: Same as yesterday: When I log in I get "You have specified an incorrect username. Please check your username and try again. If you continue to have problems please contact the Board Administrator." Please advise -- thanks.
2016-09-22 19:49:21 Hagbard: Very strange
2016-09-24 13:44:56 Hagbard: Sigurd qualified for Asgarthr.
2016-09-24 21:48:17 crust: nice job Sigurd :)
2016-09-25 16:05:18 Hagbard: 90% of the Round 1 games are completed, so Round 1 could be finished around Sep. 28th. 29 players are soon ready to proceed to Round 2. In July I mentioned the possibility of four groups also in Round 2, and luckily we are so many players that this is timely. We'll have to move the top Final into Valhöll, and the rest of us go to Asgarthr, Midgarth and Utgarthr.
2016-09-26 08:18:44 Hagbard: The Fornebei group is first to finish Round 1.
2016-09-26 14:56:31 Hagbard: So, who won Thor's Hammer?
2016-09-27 15:02:30 Ded Fomich: Hello Hagbard! I've already finished the round one games and have decided to leave the tournament at that, please leave me out of round two.
2016-09-27 16:25:28 Hagbard: @Ded Fomich: Sorry to hear that. But thanks for participating in Round 1!
2016-09-28 06:37:55 Hagbard: This is a list of completed tournament games per day until now (day no. no. of games): 1. 5 2. 13 3. 12 4. 15 5. 13 6. 7 7. 10 8. 7 9. 9 10. 3 11. 6 12. 8 13. 10 14. 6 15. 6 16. 4 17. 6 18. 3 19. 8 20. 2 21. 6 22. 2 23. 3 24. 1 25. 2 26. 3 27. 1 There are still 14 unfinished games! (hopefully not at a speed of one completed game per day for the rest...)
2016-09-28 07:28:52 Hagbard: No Thor's Hammer this year?
2016-09-28 20:03:42 Hagbard: Herjan qualified for Valhöll. Hagbard also. Valhöll tafl seats are now reserved for crust, Xerxes, Tuireann, Bigwurm91, Sigurd, Herjan, Hagbard. And one vacant seat left.
2016-09-28 20:22:04 crust: I suppose the remaining place goes either to Steiger or Adam depending on awaited results. Animals was very unlucky not to qualify for Valhalla; I suppose he will be one of the heavy sharks of Asgard (sounds like a Swedish metal band)
2016-09-28 21:44:26 Steiger: \m/. Heavy Sharks of Asgard .\m/ I like!)
2016-09-29 16:34:05 Herjan: Thor's Hammer challenge is yet to be resolved. There had been many a promising young warrior at the Fornebei Viking Festival that wished to learn the skill of warfare and strategy through playing tafl, but not yet ready to challenge for the Hammer. However seasoned warriors have fought and following a win over Tonythebook, Herjan is awaiting a final battle with fornebei's Kappi,(local champion), Doc Bullen for the honoury title of being Thor's Hammer Champion
2016-09-30 17:56:35 Fairland: I did not do well in round one . . . :( However, I do feel like I learned a lot about the "philosophy" of tafl and of the board by observing the 11X11 Bell formation. Let´s hope my powers in Copenhägen increase due to this added knowledge.
2016-10-01 07:41:20 Hagbard: Adam qualified for Valhöll. A full Valhöll tafl table now.
2016-10-01 09:21:14 Hagbard: The distribution of all players into Round 2 groups is now clear, except only for two: Vonraider and Helfrich. Round 2 can start now for all other players, and Vonraider and Helfrich will be added to Round 2 as soon as possible. We made this year Round 1 in precisely one month! Good luck everybody in the Finals!
2016-10-01 17:06:14 xerxes: Good Luck to you in the Finals as well Hagbard - and thanks again for organising all this.
2016-10-01 19:17:53 Hagbard: :)
2016-10-01 21:41:26 altti: the tournament rules need to be amended to reflect the change from asgarthr to valholl. (just sayin'....) other wise a lucky asgarthr victor may walk away with the championship as a legal claim. hehe.
2016-10-01 21:46:23 Hagbard: Very true, thanks!
2016-10-02 09:07:00 Adam: Good luck to all in the finals! And thank you Hagbard for organising us all thus far. Great job as always.
2016-10-03 09:19:24 crust: Enjoy the final round, everyone, and if you didn't get into the Valholl group, keep going; we're looking for an Asgarthr champion, a Midgarthr champion and an Udgarthr champion too. It's great that we finished Round One so quickly, and as Xerxes and Adam already said, thanks to Hagbard for being such an excellent host and organiser
2016-10-03 11:51:15 Hagbard: Thanks and you're welcome. Have fun!
2016-10-03 11:53:24 Hagbard: The first Round 2 game is completed: Agmundr / Fellhuhn !
2016-10-03 19:15:45 crust: wow - Agmundr has racked up three points already! Who put Nitro in his drinking horn? ;)
2016-10-03 19:21:39 Agmundr: Running on mjød 🍻 😀
2016-10-04 23:09:51 HELFRICH: Curious that I cannot find myself in any category of the final round, or am i misinterpreting the rules?
2016-10-05 01:00:15 crust: Helfrich, you and Vonraider seem to have been left out. I'm sorry, I assumed you had left the tournament, but it seems that a mistake has been made. I hope Hagbard will be able to fix it; it looks like you and Vonraider should both be in the Asgarthr group
2016-10-05 11:58:48 Hagbard: About Helfrich/Vonraider: No mistake. Both will be added as soon as possible, one to Asgarthr and the other to Mithgarthr. But it will take one or two more results of Round 1 games to know who goes where.
2016-10-05 12:46:23 crust: Oh that makes sense - sorry Hagbard, I should have realized that!
2016-10-05 12:49:15 crust: I saw Helfrich had finished all his games, but of course his placing in round 2 depends on the results of Vonraider's remaining two first-round games
2016-10-05 17:17:19 HELFRICH: I would like a clarification on the tie breaker situation. I won seven games by your count, nine by my count. Your removal of two games wins does not seem 'cricket' to me. It is unfair that I or others in my first round grouping should be penalized because some non-serious entry didn't finish any of his games. That player should not have been 'wiped' from the tourney records either: historical records count for future tournaments. As I noted in an earlier posting, some sort of qualification should occur for entry into this championship cycle (like perhaps having played at least 25 games). If you all don't like enacting a qualification, then there should be no penalty.
2016-10-05 21:23:25 Tuireann: It did not penalize you because if you had 2 more points so would everyone else in your group and the standings would be identical at 13,11,11,9(you),5,2,0X with a maximum score of 14. Only the top 2 players from each group advances so its not as if you have to compete against players from other groups with more possible points. The historical records don't count for future tournaments by any reasoning I understand because the group distribution was done by ELO. And the tie breaking is neustadtl score which didn't apply to you because you didn't tie anyone.
2016-10-05 23:47:02 crust: there is an issue, though. Helfrich is now competing with vonraider for a place in the Asgarthr group; but Helfrich is in Heithabyr group (whit 7 members) whereas vonraider is in Tunsberg group (with 8 members). It follows that Helfrich's points are out of a maximum of 12 points, whereas vonraider's are out of a maximum of 14 points. Another way of putting it is that vonraider had two more opportunities of gaining a point than Helfrich had. This wouldn't matter, as Tuireann rightly said, when Helfrich is competing against players in his own group, but now there is competition between players from 2 different (and different-sized) groups for a place in the Asgarthr group. Now, let's say that vonraider loses his remaining 2 games, and remains on 7 points. That's 7 points out of a possible 14, whereas Helfrich has 7 points out of a possible 12. 7/12 is more than 7/14, so it seems to me, in that case, that Helfrich should be favoured. However, if Vonraider wins one of his remaining games, then Helfrich's 7/12 STILL beats vonraider's 8/14, since 7/12 = 1/2 + 1/12, and 8/14 = 1/2 + 1/14. So again, Helfrich wins, even though he has one more point than vonraider! Now, if vonraider wins both his remaining games, then his 9/14 does finally beat Helfrich's 7/12, since 9/14 = 1/2 + 1/7, which beats Helfrich's 1/2 + 1/12. So if Vonraider wins both, he goes through to Asgarthr; if he wins only one, or neither, then Helfrich goes through to Asgarthr. Somebody please check my m
2016-10-05 23:47:45 crust: ...check my maths, it's not my speciality! :)
2016-10-05 23:58:25 crust: also where I said "even though he has one more point than vonraider" I should have said one LESS. Just to be clear, if Vonraider wins one of his remaining games and has 8 points compared with Helfrich's 7 points, then vonraider has 8 out of 14, which is still LESS than Helfrich's 7 out of 12. So Helfrich wins, even though he has one LESS point than vonraider. Anyone agree or disagree?
2016-10-06 00:04:55 crust: another way of putting it: Helfrich might have 7 points and vonraider have 8 points, but Helfrich would still have won a greater share of the available points in his group than vonraider had. 7 out of 12 beats 8 out of 14.
2016-10-06 00:14:29 HELFRICH: crust -- thanks for the explanation. I understand your math logic. However, my contention was and still is that the player (who was removed) points should be awarded, thus I would be at nine points not seven. The player who stopped his games was very new at the game. My standing in the group does not change but my point value in tie breakers does improve. Tuireann -- respectively submit that you misunderstood completely as I was not talking about points to get into the top group or the standing I had within the group I was placed in during the first round. It did/does clearly penalize me for tiebreakers. Historically it does count for future reference for the instance of players joining who repeatedly do not finish their games. Showing what actually happened in the tourney is historical and a record should be preserved.
2016-10-06 00:18:04 crust: The problem with that analysis is that we're really not comparing Vonraider's score with Helfrich's, to decide who goes through; we're comparing it to the other players in vonraider's "Tunsberg" group, in fact, to be precise, it's with Steiger that his points must be compared, and since Steiger and Vonraider are in the same group, we don't need to express their scores as fractions. Allocation to second-round groups is determined by position within first-round groups, not by comparing scores across different groups. So I can see that all of my calculations were in vain. But vonraider still needs to win both games against Steiger, to get to Asgarthr! So I was right, but for the wrong reasons....
2016-10-06 00:41:11 crust: Helfrich - you are worried that your loss of points because of the disqualification of a player in the first round might affect your tie-break status in the second round? My understanding is that tie-breaks are based only on what happens in that round, not on what happened in previous rounds, so you should be completely unaffected.
2016-10-06 01:01:32 HELFRICH: crust -- interesting revelation. So if the points (wins) don't matter, I am in 4th place in my group regardless and that qualifies me for placement in the next round -- so why then am I not placed. The tie breakers I have ALWAYS been talking about are those used for advancement to and placement in the next round (tiebreakers between placement from different groups). Vonraider's and Steiger's games outcome should then only affect which group they are placed in and has nothing to do with my not being placed. If so then make it so and place me! My original question was why wasn't I placed ....
2016-10-06 01:11:29 HELFRICH: Crust -- I just reread your last statement and it appears we are not communicating. I am referring to "tie breakers" in the FIRST Round that are used for player PLACEMENT in the SECOND round groupings.
2016-10-06 02:06:22 Tuireann: Yeah, I thought Helfrich meant Valholl advancement and the tournament as a whole in general. I've written a few replies and then refreshed read and reread and at this point I've lost the plot. I assume the reason you have not been placed yet is because the outcome of the remaining games influences into which second round group you end up in for the sake of balancing the groups based on the results of the first round. And that it's because Vonraider will end up with a score of 0.50,0.57, or 0.64 to your 0.58 so presumably one ends up in Asgarthr and one ends up in Mithgarthr. But I have no idea how the groups are being distributed because its not stated.
2016-10-06 02:38:54 HELFRICH: Tuireann -- I was hoping the tourney organizers could provide a simple straightforward answer. I am confused. I have been politely provided with three different answers. Your last remark in your post appears to be very accurate, in short it is not defined. I also can 'assume' reasons, but I was looking for clarification.
2016-10-06 06:59:24 Hagbard: Answer had to wait for daylight on this side of the Earth. Put on the large forum: http://aagenielsen.dk/hnefataflforum/viewtopic.php?f=4&p=718#p716
2016-10-06 11:37:28 Hagbard: The board position of the Round 1 game Vonraider/Steiger is such that white probably lost. In which case both Helfrich and Vonraider can proceed with Round 2. With a move per day it could take a week or more to wait for the result of the game. If no objections, we could presume this game lost and start Helfrich and Vonraider up for Round 2?
2016-10-06 12:27:29 Steiger: Нave no objections ;)
2016-10-06 13:52:08 HELFRICH: NOTE: In the Vonraider vs Steiger clash -- in both games black appears to have the advantage
2016-10-06 13:57:14 Hagbard: I agree. And Steiger just has to win one game (that is the Vonraider/Steiger one) for you to be in Asgarthr.
2016-10-06 14:41:01 HELFRICH: I was looking at the other final groupings and they look odd also. The players that dropped out caused a multitude of problems in the final round -- the players that quit should have had their games counted and they should be reflected in the tallies for the first round. For instance, in the grouping I was in, the 5th, 6th, 7th player were all placed in the bottom group. 5th and 6th should have been in the third group and not the bottom. The 7th and the quitter should be in the fourth group. Other affected groups have similar problems.
2016-10-06 17:42:25 Hagbard: It's a task of mathematics; no. 4 in one group isn't necessarily the same as no. 4 in another, not even for equal sized groups. Method explained here: http://aagenielsen.dk/hnefataflforum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4&p=721#p718
2016-10-07 09:54:03 Adam: Well worth reading Hagbard's concise round up on this in the large forum. I will hazard to cook it all down to two lines: The top two winners from each round 1 group make up the top group in the final. The remaining players are distributed into further groups according to their points taken as a percentage (6/12=50% 5/10=50%), such that drop outs and uneven group sizes are accounted for.
2016-10-07 09:55:26 Adam: ...And perhaps we should have this info in the tournament regulations for next year, it seems like a simple way of doing things.
2016-10-08 07:40:45 Hagbard: @Adam: Thanks a lot for this text formulation! It is added to the tournament page of this year also, since it perfectly describes how the players are distributed in Round 2.
2016-10-08 12:03:19 crust: Helfrich - are you reassured now, or do you still feel you've been unfairly disadvantaged?
2016-10-08 23:27:00 HELFRICH: yes
2016-10-09 00:28:01 HELFRICH: To be more clear -- if that is possible, LOL -- My original question was ... why had I not been placed in a final group? ... It took numerous posts to sort of get that answered. Yes, I understand the math, no I do not agree with the logic of removing unfinished timed out games. I recognize that the removal of the quitter did not impact the standings within our group, it did however impact the points total verses other groups and hence the final pairings in round two. NOTE: e.g., Sybil and Gjallarhorn, lost two potential wins that should/could have placed them in the third group in round two. Seems Vonraider could have also easily be placed in the second group in the second round, especially since round two was started before all round one games were finished. /// That perhaps is the luck or unlucky result of having a championship tourney with no qualifier for playing (my recommendation for a fix for next year). My situation and contention is that all the members on my first round grouping were hurt because of one quitter. Other groups probably experienced the same but since all that information has been deleted it is therefore difficult to analyze fully. I would suggest that this lengthy and somewhat contentious discussion be continued in the large forum. I think this site is outstanding and the organizers do a great job, but a couple of the problems experienced could use more discussion and acceptance of counter opinions. There is no intention here of offending anyone.
2016-10-09 04:05:02 crust: Helfrich, I would call the issue complex rather than contentious; thank you for raising it, and apologies if it has been frustrating. I do see your point: with Kratzer for example, if Chalhub and Teondrae had not been removed from the Vinland group, he would have got 5 points out of a possible 14, however since they were removed, he only got 1 out of 10. 1/10 is obviously much less than 5/14, so the reduction in group size does not adequately compensate him for the loss of points. This difference is less extreme in your case (7/12 without TheBloodyJarl's points rather than 9/14 with them), but still detectable, I can see that. Please be assured that your comments have not been rejected and have not caused offence. I hope no offence has been given either.
2016-10-09 08:21:21 Hagbard: Kratzer/Teondrae/Chalhub is an interesting example. Perhaps some Second-Order Approximation could be invented with more accuracy, but the present First-Order method is not so complicated.
2016-10-09 13:54:23 Hagbard: Round 2 distribution calculated extremely accurately: http://aagenielsen.dk/hnefataflforum/viewtopic.php?f=4&p=722#p722
2016-10-09 16:00:03 HELFRICH: Crust -- thanks for your intelligent response. Whether or not I initially agree with someone else, I have found it is typically a good practice to take a deep breath and reevaluate. /// Multiple viewpoints and input help to build a consensus and hopefully a better product. /// Having worked in the technical world for over 4.7 (for the math types) decades I am well acquainted with the 'engineering' approach to apply a mathematical answer for ALL topical questions. However, the removal of the subject timed-out games from the tourney quitters in round one was not a math question but rather a decision not fully thought through and flawed because of it. The decision pushed players down (in my round one group NO ONE was placed in the third group for instance) and I still think that was flat wrong.
2016-10-09 16:30:17 HELFRICH: Hagbard -- why use probability formulas where real data is available?
2016-10-09 16:30:50 Adam: The problem is that the alternative is to push them up, which is just as unfair. What we want is a placement solution that doesn't advantage or disadvantage any players. Tricky...
2016-10-09 21:39:59 altti: how can I disable the sound effect
2016-10-09 21:41:10 Hagbard: mute the speaker
2016-10-10 10:08:51 xerxes: Or wear ear plugs. Or be half-deaf like I am ...
2016-10-10 13:43:17 altti: i keep on muting the speaker. now I would like it to stop popping up.
2016-10-11 07:28:22 Hagbard: Round 1 is completed!
2016-10-14 21:04:23 Hagbard: Mithgarthr is first to complete half of the Round 2 games.
2016-10-16 01:24:48 Kratzer: Right now, I'm not so sure anymore: is the Garbo draw fort allowed in Copenhagen? (The king cannot move, but there is a draw fort consisting of 4 white pieces)
2016-10-16 03:33:19 crust: kratzer, the "Garbo" fort (bless you for remembering that name) will not work under Copenhagen rules, because of the ban on repetitive moves. Since black is bound to have more options to move pieces around than white, it seems inevitable that white will be the one who repeats his board position for the third time and so loses the game.
2016-10-16 11:04:41 newplayer: Just to avoid any further confusion: Unlike what my name suggests, I'm not a new player. Also I'd be glad if anyone can point me in the right direction about how to change my account name. Greetings, sqAree
2016-10-16 19:45:51 crust: haha sqAree, Plantagenet thought you were me, and I thought you were Teondrae - both wrong! Good to see you, I hope your account name can be changed to your satisfaction
2016-10-16 21:30:37 newplayer: Oh, that's funny. ^^ sqAree again would do fine. Back from a somewhat long hiatus I return to play Copenhagen Tafl again in a not so serious manner.
2016-10-16 22:47:15 Hagbard: GavinBegbie did not move at all in Round 2 and is removed from the tournament.
2016-10-17 06:15:50 Hagbard: @newplayer: changed to sqAree
2016-10-17 09:27:02 sqAree: Thanks a lot Hagbard!
2016-10-18 21:23:50 vonraider: vonraider: I discovered rather quickly that sqAree was indeed not a "new" player. To my sorrow......
2016-10-21 18:32:14 OdinHimself: I lost my sound move notification... How can I get it back?
2016-10-21 18:33:08 OdinHimself: Move sound notification, excuse my English
2016-10-21 18:57:49 Hagbard: At the bottom of "My current games" page: "If you want to activate the email notification, click here", click on the button "Activate". Email notification and move sound notification are both controlled by this button now.
2016-10-21 19:02:38 Hagbard: Fraech is first to complete all Round 2 games!
2016-10-22 09:28:55 OdinHimself: Thanks Hagbard
2016-10-31 20:47:30 Hagbard: Looks like we have a Master of Utgarthr 2016?
2016-11-03 06:54:31 Hagbard: Looks like we have a Master of Asgarthr 2016?
2016-11-04 12:16:36 crust: Certainly looks that way! Odinhimself (Asgarthr) and Kratzer (Ugarthr) are looking unstoppable; I'll hold off the congratulations, though, until all games in these groups are finished; hope it won't be too long :)
2016-11-04 18:13:57 crust: only 8 more games, and I'm up to 3000, lol... I really should be better at this game... :)
2016-11-04 18:17:57 OdinHimself: @crust: 3000 games played here only, probably 3x3000 played at all... I think you're good enough :)
2016-11-04 19:43:40 Hagbard: 78% of the games are completed now, so roughly calculated the whole tournament could be finished around November 15th.
2016-11-05 10:43:07 Hagbard: A balance has tipped in Mithgarthr...
2016-11-07 05:54:34 Hagbard: Crust reached 3000 tafl games on this site!!
2016-11-07 12:35:21 crust: I am the king of tafl-heads ;)
2016-11-07 20:11:00 Steiger: Hail the king!)
2016-11-07 22:00:29 Ded Fomich: With heart and voice let's sing God save the King! =)
2016-11-07 23:28:05 Hagbard: Asgarthr is first to complete Round 2.
2016-11-08 05:49:30 OdinHimself: @ Hagbard: Have you ever doubt it? :)
2016-11-08 06:30:31 Hagbard: No. Asgarthr was in front all the way completing games.
2016-11-08 11:43:51 crust: Congratulations Odinhimself, Champion of Asgarthr! A magnificent performance and a clear victory!
2016-11-08 12:33:55 OdinHimself: Thank you Tim, much appreciated! :)
2016-11-08 14:05:10 crust: It was literally 10 out of 10, well done Lucho for not losing a single game in the second round ;)
2016-11-08 16:19:59 OdinHimself: Thank you, but I must say I had a fierce opponents, every one of them deserves respect and I had some very tied up games against them. They are all worthy players and I mean this for real.
2016-11-08 16:24:56 crust: yes, you were swimming with some dangerous tafl-sharks... and you came out without a scratch!
2016-11-08 17:41:06 OdinHimself: lol, yes, me the little harmless seal...
2016-11-09 05:36:22 altti: congrats on the clean sweep. that was impressive. I felt totally out matched.
2016-11-09 08:14:41 OdinHimself: I think 9th place is not bad at all for a debut participation. It will help me a lot in my main mission - to perform and popularize the ancient war strategy board game Hnefatafl and the tafl games family at all in Bulgaria. It's quite unknown where I live. As Tim likes to say - The heroes of the Hnefatafl renaissance spread the word! :)
2016-11-15 04:07:07 altti: Crust and Herjan are playing an epic long end game. don't know why Herjan gave up real-estate at move 127, perhaps an attempt to free up pieces for an assault? or an enticement to err for crust (not likely to happen, I've tried). with Sigurds draw vs. Xerxes, crust now only has Herjan to contend with. If I interpret the tie break evaluation correctly, a 12 point tie would give Herjan the cup.
2016-11-15 11:14:54 Hagbard: I agree. If Crust and Herjan each get 12.5 points, then the winner will be Herjan. Because the direct games Crust/Herjan then gave Crust 0.5 points and Herjan 1.5 points.
2016-11-15 21:02:55 crust: I am very happy to offer/accept a draw with Herjan! If that means he wins the championship, I don't mind :)
2016-11-16 02:38:36 Bigwurm91: Thanks to everyone that put the championships together. I look forward too competing next year
2016-11-18 21:54:20 Sigurd: Alas, neither of my attempts at a 50-move draw fort worked out. :D
2016-11-18 23:51:05 Hagbard: A good try, and a very interesting idea. These cases will probably be discussed for some time when the tournament is finished
2016-11-19 23:19:15 Hagbard: Something happened in Valhöll.
2016-11-20 00:32:04 altti: congrats to Herjan. What would the title in Valhalla be for a victorious combatant?
2016-11-20 15:30:42 crust: On behalf of the World Tafl Federation, congratulations to Herjan (Leo Kolassa) of UK, who wins the tournament on a tie-break. Herjan is therefore the World Tafl Federation 2016 Hnefatafl Champion, and is granted the title of grand-master. Very well done, an extremely deserving champion! Congratulations also to Odinhimself (Master of Asgarthr), to Arevidar who will certainly be Master of Midgarthr, and to Kratzer, who will undoubtedly be Master of Utgarthr. Commiserations to all the other players; many thanks for taking part, for your dedication and good sportsmanship. And of course thank you to our excellent host Mr. Nielsen, without whom none of this would be possible.
2016-11-20 18:52:49 Hagbard: A big congratulations to Herjan, new Hnefatafl World Champion of 2016! And a big thank you to the 33 tournament players for participating this year (25 carried through to the end), and for playing it swiftly so that the winner was found 13 days faster than last year. Also a thank you to the tournament umpires, Tim Millar and Adam Bartley!
2016-11-20 19:32:11 OdinHimself: A poem by me for all the players and winners: At the end, on the battlefield we stand with bleeding wounds and a broken sword in hand We curse the gods and the creator of this wicked world where good is evil untill the final battle crushes the Earth... Skol!
2016-11-20 20:05:48 xerxes: Congratulations to Herjan - and Crust who missed out by a whisker. And the biggest thanks must go to Hagbard for organising the tournament.
2016-11-20 20:46:55 Steiger: Присоединяюсь к поздравлениям и благодарностям!
2016-11-20 22:46:52 crust: Just in case anyone was unsure abut the tie-break, Herjan and I both got 12.5 points, but of our two games, one was a victory for Herjan and the other was a draw, so under the tie-break rules, Herjan is the winner. It's nice to have a result that is both very close, and also clear. Just like last year when Adam won by a small margin. It's also good to have a new grand-master. Nice poem, Odinhimself!
2016-11-21 19:58:42 Adam: Congratulations to Herjan! A new Grand Master! Thanks everyone for a great tournament. Looking forward to post tournament forum discussions which were well underway half way through!
2016-11-22 15:58:51 herjan: Thank you all for an amazing tournament. At the start I never thought I would get this far and win especially when playing so many matches against so many worthy opponents, and in some cases being engaged in a number of epic battles. I am so glad I persevered. Its equally a huge honour to have the title of Grand Master bestowed on me, especially as I also become the Fornebei's Thors Challenge winner recently. 2016 has certainly been a successful tafl playing year and I shall be wearing the Tafl Champion & Grand Master title with pride for a very long time.
2016-11-22 16:55:11 Tuireann: Congrats Herjan!
2016-11-23 04:58:13 Sigurd: Congratulations Herjan!
2016-11-23 13:38:04 Hagbard: About a year ago I promised a Berserk tournament some day, started now. Specialty the berserk moves, watch out for them...
2016-11-27 12:02:47 Hagbard: A request was made for opening the large forum for new user registerings. It's now opened for new registerings for three days.
2016-11-30 20:34:17 Hagbard: Round 2 seems to be completed?
2016-11-30 20:57:08 Kratzer: FYI: Copenhagen und Berserk made it into an Android game app called "hnefatafl", made by Philippe Schober.
2016-11-30 21:04:25 Hagbard: @Kratzer: that is very good news!
2016-12-02 22:19:05 Tuireann: Can I drop out of the berserk tournament? I can't make a berserk move apparently and it has ruined one of my games and I really don't want to play anymore if I can't figure it out.
2016-12-03 00:39:28 Hagbard: You can make a berserk move: let's say you want to move A-B plus B-C. So you click A and B, and afterwards B and C.
2016-12-06 10:52:27 Hagbard: Tuireann had some problems with doing the berserk moves. Have others had problems with this, too?
2016-12-06 13:06:24 xerxes: Ref the Berserk move, the only problem I've had is finding opportunities to use it ! But when I have it has worked OK.
2016-12-08 20:24:18 Hagbard: The "ruined" game of Tuireann was restored without the erroneous move (Vonraider/Tuireann).
2016-12-09 23:12:54 Adam: I've found that all the berserk special moves have worked without flaw. Excellent programming as always. The berserk move is a little tricky to get the hang of at first, requiring a new click on your active piece after each taking move, to reactivate it as it were.
2016-12-13 15:35:44 Hagbard: There is one setup of Brandubh 7x7 left to be tournament tested: the line no throne setup.
2016-12-20 07:45:32 Hagbard: Adam won the Berserk tournament and proved himself again a real berserker! And not the only one, obviously, since many players did very well in the games! I went through all the 90 games, and that was very interesting and amusing. Thanks a lot to the ten players who took part! I'm working on a more thorough forum note about this tournament.
2016-12-20 09:06:59 xerxes: Thanks Hagbard - I thought the Berserk tournament was great fun; the format gives the player a lot more to think about (and a lot more opportunities to make mistakes !).
2016-12-20 21:28:16 Hagbard: Forum note about the Berserk tournament: http://aagenielsen.dk/hnefataflforum/viewtopic.php?f=1&p=729#p729
2016-12-21 12:39:12 Hagbard: An evaluation in the forum of the World Tournament 2016: http://aagenielsen.dk/hnefataflforum/viewtopic.php?f=4&p=730#p730
2016-12-24 01:37:47 Fairland: Are we going to do national championships again this year or was that a one-time thing?
2016-12-24 01:37:48 Fairland: Are we going to do national championships again this year or was that a one-time thing?
2016-12-24 14:45:29 Agmundr: Gleðileg jól! 🍻 ☺
2016-12-25 02:08:45 Hagbard: Glædelig Jul!
2016-12-26 10:15:43 Hagbard: @Fairland: Certainly! What about signing in from now and then starting Feb. 1st? I'd propose that it is this time a full America tournament. That is including Canada, and we've sometimes players from Mexico and Brazil also. Then, about April 1st, we could have a full Europe tournament also? Of course including Russia, Bulgaria, Ukraine, Belarus and Poland.
2016-12-26 10:38:37 Hagbard: - And if an Australian should turn up, I'd propose that he joins the European contest, just like Australia already joined the European Song Contest.
2016-12-26 11:28:58 test1: Joins the America Tournament 2017.
2016-12-26 13:24:51 xerxes: And then how about a Europe vs Americas match, with, say, the top 6 from each competition playing each other to find the best continent ?
2016-12-26 13:44:38 xerxes: Ref the Hull Tournament in June that Damian is organising (see http://tafl.cyningstan.com/post/1436/hnefatafl-tournament-planned-for-hull-in-2017 ) - looks like a few of us UK players from this site will be going, so it would be good if some folk can make it across from Europe and elsewhere.
2016-12-26 14:44:57 altti: Joins the America Tournament 2017.
2016-12-26 15:01:35 Hagbard: @xerxes: So America no. 1 against Europe no. 1, America no. 2 against Europe no. 2 etc.?
2016-12-26 17:08:52 xerxes: @Hagbard: Yes, and either each pair could play two games (White and Black) or alternate White and Black down the list, as long as there were an even number of players.
2016-12-26 17:27:51 Hagbard: In that case I'd suggest two games, white and black. And since there are now two (three) rounds, European Tournament could begin by March 1st.
2016-12-26 17:32:00 Fairland: Joins the America Tournament 2017.
2016-12-26 17:35:06 Fairland: Alright!let's do this!
2016-12-26 22:51:32 theexplorer135: Joins the America Tournament 2017.
2016-12-27 11:01:56 bigwurm91: Joins the America Tournament 2017.
2016-12-28 09:59:23 Hagbard: A Christmas time note on Alea Evangelii was written in the forum.
2016-12-31 22:44:14 Steiger: С Новым Годом!
2017-01-02 19:02:35 Hagbard: The current Ard Ri game balance is not too good (+1.61), and the plan is to test some more setups. The parameters to mix are with or without throne, attackers in cross or circle, and king armed or unarmed.
2017-01-05 09:10:49 Hagbard: Animals won the "Brandubh throneless" test tournament, and a summary on Brandubh is put on the large forum. Thank you to the players for helping test this game!
2017-01-05 17:26:28 OdinHimself: I'd like to say I'm highly positive surprised and impressed by the beginner theexplorer135! He plays very well for a two week hand and I wish him luck in further tournaments! :)
2017-01-07 09:48:30 Hagbard: New in gallery: photos from Steve Lonsdale, UK.
2017-01-07 10:15:12 Hagbard: By mistake the American Tournament headline for some days linked to the World Championship page. Just to clarify: the number of players expected is so managable that there is only one round, all against all using Copenhagen Hnefatafl 11x11.
2017-01-07 23:38:03 Waegn: Joins the America Tournament 2017.
2017-01-09 02:07:46 Casshern: Joins the America Tournament 2017.
2017-01-09 06:10:53 Fairland: Joins the America Tournament 2017.
2017-01-09 20:54:46 Fraech: Joins the America Tournament 2017.
2017-01-10 08:52:13 Hagbard: NB. The throne square is hostile in the Ard Ri test tournaments, just like usual.
2017-01-16 18:08:42 valosb: Joins the America Tournament 2017.
2017-01-16 18:09:46 valosb: Joins the America Tournament 2017.
2017-01-16 18:10:41 mmmmn: Joins the America Tournament 2017.
2017-01-17 10:59:26 Hagbard: Yesterday I attended in the Historical Association a most fascinating lecture about the early medieval Icelandic Manuscripts with the Viking sagas, given by an associate professor from the Iceland University institute in Reykjavik responsible for the manuscripts. The manuscripts are on UNESCO's list of World Heritage. Those are fascinating stories! Especially "Njal's Saga" was recommended. The dialogues and the actions of the sagas have much in common with our time's spaghetti westerns...
2017-01-17 17:21:44 xerxes: gba@hard. That's interesting. At the Thurso Viking Festival last year (Thurso is on the north-east coast of Scotland) they were starting to design and make a tapestry of the part of Njal's Saga which occurred in Caithness. This was the premonition seen by Darrod: he saw the Valkyries weaving a bloody cloth, and all the pictures they wove subsequently came true. Kristin Ragna Gunnarsdottir from Iceland, who has made a complete tapestry of Njal's Saga, led a workshop in Thurso where the sketches of characters for the Caithness tapestry were completed - my wife Liz was responsible for designing the figure of Darrod and one of the Valkyries. The Caithness centre in Thurso is now attempting to gain funding to complete their tapestry.
2017-01-17 17:22:58 xerxes: Oops, don't know what happened there, that should have been to @hagbard !
2017-01-18 08:15:51 Hagbard: Will there be photos of the Thurso tapestry? Njal made it as far as Rome. As kids in school we studied some Icelandic Sagas as part of the curriculum. I've put two saga bits in the forum: http://aagenielsen.dk/hnefataflforum/viewtopic.php?f=4&p=734#p734
2017-01-20 00:19:47 imaxuncut: Joins the America Tournament 2017.
2017-01-20 10:32:02 xerxes: @Hagbard: The sewing of the Thurso Tapestry has not been started yet, so no photos. They have completed the design, and are now putting the project costs together (linen types, threads etc) to apply for funding. I expect that will take a while, but will keep you informed.
2017-01-23 05:06:35 Brench: Joins the America Tournament 2017.
2017-01-23 05:07:35 Brench: Joins the America Tournament 2017.
2017-01-25 17:23:37 Hagbard: The Vinland Trophy Match begins in a week! (North- and South-America). If no objections, it would be fair to name the winner International Tafl Master (like International Chess Masters from international chess tournaments). Two years ago it was only USA, and the winner was National Master.
2017-01-31 07:21:34 Hagbard: Last chance to join the Vinland Trophy Match, begins after midnight Vinland time! OBS. How come that the IP address of bigwurm91 is in Australia?
2017-01-31 16:26:35 Tuireann: Joins the America Tournament 2017.
2017-02-01 06:45:11 test1: Joins the Europe Tournament 2017.
2017-02-01 07:26:35 Hagbard: The American Championship started! The list of players reveals that USA is the tafl superpower of the two American continents, as all ten participants are from USA. For the final I propose nine top players from both sides instead of six, that is if nine players can be gathered from Europe, too. Because nine is the sacred number in the Norse universe: nine worlds, nine days in the tree, nine golden rings every nineth night, nine valkyries, nine norns etc. The final is a short round, every player having only two games, no. 1 against no. 1, no. 2 against no. 2 etc.
2017-02-01 07:30:28 Hagbard: Perhaps the European Hnefatafl Championship Tournament could be called the Beowulf Trophy match? The Beowulf story connects a large part of the oldest tafl world. The story takes place in Lejre, Denmark. The hero comes from an area somewhere between Denmark, Norway and Sweden. The story was written down in England and is now kept in the British Museum. Come and join, Australia, Bulgaria, Ukraine, Russia, Belarus, Poland, France, Italy, Spain, Switzerland, Germany, UK, Norway, Denmark!
2017-02-01 07:38:33 Hagbard: What about taking a small break from trying more Ard Ri setups, and try out this new game, which Adam Bartley invented, Alea Berserk 19x19. Adam transferred the Berserk rules to the 19x19 board, adjusted the number of special pieces (commanders and knights), and introduced a new type of piece, "the variegated man". The rules are described here: http://aagenielsen.dk/hnefataflforum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=21&start=20#p169 Remember the way to do berserk moves: To do a berserk move fx. from point A to B and further from B to C and further from C to D, you click A-B-B-C-C-D and then press Send and confirm.
2017-02-01 10:06:33 xerxes: Joins the Europe Tournament 2017.
2017-02-01 10:14:03 OdinHimself: Joins the Europe Tournament 2017.
2017-02-01 11:26:05 xerxes: Beowulf Trophy sounds like a good name for the European Tournament, and the more players from each side to contest the America vs Europe match the better !
2017-02-01 11:26:52 xerxes: @Hagbard: Thanks for the Alea Berserk Tournament - should be fun !
2017-02-01 11:34:40 xerxes: @Hagbard: A question on the ratings. On the front page I have a rating of 1487 over 572 games. On the 'Separate Ratings' page I have an 'All Games' rating of 1472 over 372 games. Which games are not included in the 'Separate Ratings' page ? Thanks.
2017-02-01 14:11:15 Steiger: Joins the Europe Tournament 2017.
2017-02-01 14:40:52 Libuda: Joins the Europe Tournament 2017.
2017-02-01 15:02:01 sqAree: Joins the Europe Tournament 2017.
2017-02-01 15:35:39 Hagbard: @xerxes: In the separate ratings, games with balances outside the range +/-1.50 were ignored, but that limitation is unnecessary.
2017-02-01 17:16:53 AreVidar: Joins the Europe Tournament 2017.
2017-02-01 21:27:33 animals: Joins the Europe Tournament 2017.
2017-02-02 05:50:58 altti: It's just not the same without Sigurd to challenge the field.
2017-02-02 07:30:40 Hagbard: The "Variagated men" of Alea Berserk 19x19, Adam wrote: "along with one new piece which is my 'variagated man'. These pieces behave like normal soldiers, except they are black on one side, and white on the other, like an Othello piece. When taken, they are not removed from the board, but 'flipped'. Consider them hired soldiers, changing sides according to who pays the highest price."
2017-02-02 15:58:29 Hagbard: Animals won the Ard Ri unarmed cross 7x7 test tournament, and Altti and Animals the Ard Ri throneless unarmed cross 7x7. Both setups turned out to be very unbalanced.
2017-02-02 17:54:14 Fairland: I am certain we were expecting that.
2017-02-05 21:26:35 Marcin: Joins the Europe Tournament 2017.
2017-02-05 21:37:15 Marcin: Joins the Europe Tournament 2017.
2017-02-06 00:38:17 Hagbard: Joins the Europe Tournament 2017.
2017-02-06 18:01:33 Adam: So great that we can test Berserk Alea. Thank you Hagbard! By lucky hap I have just visited Crust that is called Tim in the UK, and we finally got around to testing it in real life. We tried the exact set up I posted on the forum with one change, the variagated men were also commanders. This gave them a bit more weight in the game swinging back and forth. I figured, if its too much, make them regular soldiers, and if its not enough, make them knights, which would be crazy. It worked pretty well, and the game never gridlocked. For fun we also tried all pieces as reversible regular soldiers (except the king). It was very weird and interesting, sort of a Gothellotafl. Amazingly we ended with almost exactly the same balance of black and white pieces (all but one flipped back to original colour).
2017-02-07 06:48:17 OdinHimself: Why can't we see the American tournament? I can't find active link anywhere. Has it already started?
2017-02-07 06:49:39 Hagbard: It's tournament no. 72 on the tournaments page.
2017-02-07 07:40:48 OdinHimself: Thank you Hagbard! :)
2017-02-11 07:05:25 Hagbard: New registering for the large forum opened for three days!
2017-02-13 10:57:30 Thanir: Joins the Europe Tournament 2017.
2017-02-14 11:33:23 g.d.: Joins the Europe Tournament 2017.
2017-02-15 11:08:42 Hagbard: @Brench: List of applied openings put in the forum.
2017-02-15 18:11:31 Hagbard: Who is "Schachus", grandmaster from 2014? Does he exist?
2017-02-16 06:17:17 Hagbard: American tournament: theexplorer135 never moved the first 15 days and is out.
2017-02-16 17:09:44 sqAree: @Hagbard: Schachus definitely exists.
2017-02-16 17:24:53 Hagbard: About Schachus: thanks, so it's not just an alternative alias for some other player?
2017-02-16 17:43:40 Hagbard: Viking boat burial in Scotland (hat tip playtaflonline): http://www.history.com/news/viking-boat-burial-reveals-its-secrets
2017-02-17 04:57:49 bytoon: Joins the Europe Tournament 2017.
2017-02-17 04:58:56 bytoon: Joins the Europe Tournament 2017.
2017-02-17 05:12:42 sqAree: It's highly unlikely that Schachus had another account on this site. I base my assumption purely on my perception of his personality; in any case Schachus was his main account. So sad he's not playing anymore, as he was probably the best player among all of us.
2017-02-17 06:37:27 Hagbard: I wondered if Schachus perhaps is identical to Nath?
2017-02-17 20:14:43 sqAree: Don't worry, they're different persons. ^^
2017-02-17 22:22:58 Hagbard: I hope so; glad to hear it.
2017-02-18 12:26:16 Thanir: Joins the Europe Tournament 2017.
2017-02-19 17:04:06 Brench: Finished the analysis of openings for Copenhagen Hnefatafl + win probabilities. I want to change the color scheme on the board position images and put everything into a pdf. Should/can we host here? Or host elsewhere?
2017-02-20 06:54:28 Hagbard: We certainly could put the pdf here, would be honoured to. Brench's post is found in the large forum, Strategy, Compiling a list of openings.
2017-02-20 21:46:18 Kratzer: Joins the Europe Tournament 2017.
2017-02-20 22:32:52 Hagbard: Animals won the Ard Ri friendly-throne unarmed cross 7x7 test tournament.
2017-02-21 09:36:36 Hagbard: One week to the European tournament starts.
2017-02-21 12:19:18 Hagbard: "Quick game" mode: 1 minute per move, time buffer 5 minutes, unmet invitations removed after 1 hour. No rating.
2017-02-21 17:51:09 Brench: @Hagbard: Excellent. I'm just editing the Copenhagen document now and making sure the introduction explains the images and statistics well enough to be of use. Hopefully we can use this kind of analysis to start building a Hnefatafl theory analogous to Chess theory. When the document is done where should I send it?
2017-02-21 18:13:07 Hagbard: To the email-address at bottom of this page.
2017-02-22 07:02:29 Brench: @Hagbard: sent out the document. I view this as an ongoing project so I'll update it every so often.
2017-02-22 18:57:56 Hagbard: @Brench: Thanks very much! A link is put in the forum. So the analysis versions can for now be read from there, until a more complete result later, which can then be moved to a page of its own.
2017-02-23 11:58:16 Hagbard: Anyone knows who is Nicolas Cartier, France, who wrote the fine paper on Tablut November 2011? And has someone by any chance saved the puzzle diagrams created by crust? They were unfortunately lost at a forum breakdown March 2015.
2017-02-23 13:18:59 OdinHimself: What diagrams? Of dr. Crustus? Or others?
2017-02-23 13:22:48 Hagbard: Fine tafl puzzles. The text is still there in the forum, but the diagrams disappeared: http://aagenielsen.dk/hnefataflforum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=47
2017-02-26 07:56:24 Brench: Finished my analysis of the best and worst moves made in response to an opening move of d1-d3 (or h1-h3 or equivalent) by black in Copenhagen. Just have to make sure the plots are being generated correctly. Will get the data up in a day or two.
2017-02-27 15:34:10 Fairland: Hey is there any place to go to see the current results of the America Tournament? Just curious to see an overview unless, of course, we are waiting until the end, which would be fine.
2017-02-27 15:35:49 Hagbard: It's tournament no. 72 on the Tournaments page.
2017-02-27 16:56:21 Fairland: Thanks very much! and congratulations to the two people that are completely owning this tournament.
2017-02-27 21:39:42 Aluric: Joins the Europe Tournament 2017.
2017-02-28 07:51:57 Anto2016: Joins the Europe Tournament 2017.
2017-02-28 23:31:55 tankred: Joins the Europe Tournament 2017.
2017-03-01 07:50:31 Hagbard: New registering for the large forum is opened for three days.
2017-03-09 05:16:45 Bigwurm91: 01-31/07:21 Hagbard: Last chance to join the Vinland Trophy Match, begins after midnight Vinland time! OBS. How come that the IP address of bigwurm91 is in Australia? Currently living and working in Sydney on a work and holiday visa. sorry for any confusion. Native Californian tho
2017-03-09 06:33:12 Hagbard: @Bigwurm91: Have a good time there! My nephew is in Australia precisely the same way. Great country!
2017-03-12 22:29:51 Hagbard: casshern won the Ard Ri friendly-throne unarmed circle 7x7 test tournament; turned out to be very unbalanced in favour of white.
2017-03-12 23:37:44 Hagbard: And animals won the Ard Ri friendly-throne unarmed cross 7x7 test tournament, also unbalanced in favour of white.
2017-03-13 13:56:34 Hagbard: A preliminary summary on Ard Ri: http://aagenielsen.dk/ardri_summary.php
2017-03-16 07:52:41 Hagbard: European tournament: tankred never moved and is out.
2017-03-19 07:04:52 Hagbard: Ard Ri test tournament: the king moves only one step at a time.
2017-03-19 07:08:18 Brench: Complete analysis of all responses to h1-h3 or the equivalent moves has been completed and emailed as a pdf.
2017-03-19 15:01:18 Hagbard: Altti won the Vinland Trophy Match! Congratulations! The tournament covered two American continents, and as there've been no objections to my proposition Jan. 25th, Altti is our first International Tafl Master.
2017-03-19 20:08:30 OdinHimself: Congratulations on the win Altti! Live long and prosper! :)
2017-03-20 03:06:07 altti: thank you. I would have liked Sigurd to have competed. Congrats to Casshern for the strong competition.
2017-03-20 08:27:38 Casshern: Thanks Altti. Congrats on the victory!
2017-03-20 10:35:23 xerxes: Congratulations Altti - well-deserved. And to Casshern for a strong showing in their first tournament.
2017-03-20 10:36:58 xerxes: @Hagbard - I have two sets of games vs Altti in Tournament 76 - is that an error ? Thanks.
2017-03-20 16:54:43 Sigurd: Congratulations Altti. Maybe next year.
2017-03-21 08:40:32 Hagbard: @xerxes: Thanks! Corrected.
2017-03-22 18:48:29 Tuireann: @hagbard when I joined tournament 76 it only created games with xerxes
2017-03-22 21:30:30 Hagbard: @Tuireann: Thanks! Found the bug, will update tomorrow.
2017-03-22 21:40:17 Tuireann: @hagbard cheers!
2017-03-24 07:21:46 Hagbard: Is there by any chance a native English speaker with French as a second language, who without too much effort could translate the Nicolas Cartier paper on Tablut into English? http://aagenielsen.dk/Cartier-IterLapponicum.pdf I suspect it to be a very good article.
2017-03-25 07:44:02 Hagbard: The first couple of sentences in the Cartier paper are identical to Ashton's, but rest of the paper seems to be Cartier's text. Fx. Cartier tells about Tawlbwrdd besides Tablut.
2017-03-25 07:48:08 Hagbard: The text of these pages is rearranged and clarified: http://aagenielsen.dk/hnefatafl_comments.php http://aagenielsen.dk/berserk_comments.php
2017-03-25 08:20:13 Hagbard: And another mystery: Who is Cartier, please?
2017-03-26 12:07:57 OdinHimself: Nicolas Cartier (1686 - 1758) from Quebec, Canada?
2017-03-26 14:34:55 Hagbard: No ghost. I only know he's from France.
2017-03-28 09:24:13 Hagbard: Test tournament: the Brench cluster 17. Remember, the first two moves must be black a4-c4 white f8-c8
2017-03-28 10:12:07 Hagbard: (It's no sacrifice for black to start with a4-c4, as this is a very strong and very popular black opening move. Also it's no sacrifice for white to answer with f8-c8, as this could possibly be a strong answer.)
2017-03-28 21:42:58 Fairland: So I am a little confused at looking at the openings list in the large forum. I see a huge list which appears to be different games on there, but I don't see a list that names out the openings or outlines only opening moves with probability. Is this just over my head?
2017-03-29 20:36:56 Hagbard: NB. New registering for the large forum opened for three days.
2017-03-31 11:14:03 Hagbard: @Fairland: I use the diagrams. Fx. the diagram of Cluster 17 shows that a black and a white move were done, the opening we test now.
2017-04-01 04:55:37 Fairland: Oh alright, thanks!
2017-04-04 18:26:53 OdinHimself: Has anyone heard something about Tim (crust)? He just disappeared and I lost contact to him.
2017-04-06 07:24:44 Hagbard: Adam won the Alea Berserk 19x19 test tournament.
2017-04-06 07:36:34 Hagbard: The American team is ready: 1 Altti, 2 Casshern, 3 Fraech, 4 Bigwurm91, 5 Brench, 6 Tuireann, 7 Fairland, 8 Waegn, 9 Imaxuncut
2017-04-06 09:47:12 Hagbard: OdinHimself won the Beowulf Trophy Match! Congratulations! The tournament covered all Europe, Asia and Australia, and thus OdinHimself is our second International Tafl Master.
2017-04-06 10:04:14 Kratzer: @OdinHimself: Same here. I could not reach him via FB. Hope he is alright.
2017-04-06 14:17:34 OdinHimself: @Kratzer Thank you for your reply my friend. @Hagbard Yay you made my day!!! Shall I announce this on my Hnefatafl Odin facebook page?
2017-04-06 15:41:51 Hagbard: @OdinHimself: Good idea.
2017-04-06 15:51:24 Steiger: @OdinHimself: Congrats, brother!\m/.
2017-04-06 15:54:33 OdinHimself: @Steiger: Thanks brother! In the name of metal!!!!! \m/ \m/
2017-04-06 16:22:19 Steiger: We Are Fighting With Power And Steel Fighting For Metal, Metal That's Real ;-)
2017-04-06 16:28:08 OdinHimself: ...Brothers of metal will always be there, standing together with haaaaaands in the air! \m/
2017-04-06 16:56:18 Steiger: Yeah, man!\m/.
2017-04-06 17:14:24 xerxes: @OdinHimself: Congratulations on a well-deserved win.
2017-04-06 17:18:09 OdinHimself: Thank you xerxes. Both you and your brother were a very tough opponents. \m/
2017-04-07 00:50:59 Tuireann: The latest episode of 'The Last Kingdom'(S02E04) shows Alfred the Great and his daughter playing a Tafl game using the classic History Craft 'Viking Game'. :P A little immersion breaking knowing I have an identical set not 2 meters away... But awesome to see a Tafl game featured in a TV poduction!
2017-04-07 07:38:35 Hagbard: Test tournament: "Skalk Hnefatafl 11x11" was the version advocated by museums in Denmark and Scandinavia for 20 years (1992-2012), and it's still the version you meet in books. (King armed, captured from 2 sides, wins in corner). Can you win as white?
2017-04-08 12:30:15 altti: @OdinHimself: congrats fellow international champion. \m/. FOLK METAL!
2017-04-08 15:58:08 OdinHimself: Thank you Altti! :) Viking/folk metal, pagan/folk metal and folk/black metal! \m/
2017-04-08 18:07:55 Hagbard: @Casshern: Skalk Hnefatafl: If the king is on a square next to a corner, he can be captured by one black.
2017-04-08 18:47:01 xerxes: @Hagbard: I assume no Shieldwall Capture and Edge Fort in Skalk ?
2017-04-08 21:58:09 Casshern: @Hagbard: Thank you.
2017-04-08 22:56:00 Hagbard: @xerxes: Correct. It's a tablut with win in corner. No Shieldwall Capture and no Edge Fort. But you can do the win by black completely surrounding white.
2017-04-09 08:29:23 Hagbard: - and repetitions are forbidden as usual.
2017-04-09 23:53:09 Hagbard: Suggestion for America-Europe final round points: No. 1 game 9 points, no. 2 game 8 points etc. and no. 9 game 1 point.
2017-04-10 11:05:38 xerxes: @Hagbard - Ref the America-Europe Challenge, my view would be a point for each game. I assume each pairing will play one Black and one White game ?
2017-04-10 12:29:44 Hagbard: Each pair one black and one white game.
2017-04-10 14:17:20 animals: Suggested points for America vs Europe would mean an overall win if just the top three players won, which seems a bit too focused on the top.
2017-04-10 21:16:30 Hagbard: ok, 9*2 games, and 18 points to share then -
2017-04-11 19:25:55 Hagbard: Skalk rating suspended during the test tournament. The balance is not known well enough.
2017-04-15 11:03:47 Hagbard: casshern won the Ard Ri-1 test tournament. Even if a few moves are left of the last tournament game, the Ard Ri's can be summed up: http://aagenielsen.dk/hnefataflforum/viewtopic.php?f=1&p=861#p861
2017-04-15 19:37:46 OdinHimself: Congratulations casshern!
2017-04-16 01:48:03 Casshern: Thank you Odin! And congrats on your victory in the Europeon tournament! I was hoping we would met in the America-Europe challenge but Altti still reigns supreme on this side of the pond.
2017-04-16 08:54:53 OdinHimself: Thanks! We will meet plenty of times I think. :) Good luck!
2017-04-16 23:35:15 Hagbard: Congratulations to animals for winning the English National Championship 2017 in West Stow today!
2017-04-17 08:47:45 OdinHimself: Congrats!
2017-04-17 10:07:54 xerxes: Yes, congratulations to Animals !
2017-04-17 11:31:49 altti: Congrats Animals!
2017-04-17 21:52:55 animals: Thanks. Next stop Europe vs Americas.
2017-04-17 22:07:06 sqAree: It will still take a while to finish the European tournament thanks to me. :D Sorry for that.
2017-04-17 22:42:14 Hagbard: New registering for the large forum is opened for 3 days.
2017-04-20 10:03:14 Hagbard: casshern won the Copenhagen cluster 17 test tournament.
2017-04-20 12:58:51 Hagbard: casshern won the Ard Ri-1 7x7 test tournament. Thanks to all participants in the Ard Ri test series for your patience! It has been a long process.
2017-04-27 16:14:09 Hagbard: The European team is ready: 1 Odinhimself, 2 Animals, 3 Sqaree, 4 Hagbard, 5 Steiger, 6 Kratzer, 7 Thanir, 8 Xerxes, 9 Arevidar The America-Europe final can begin tomorrow!
2017-04-28 00:20:16 altti: starting on my birthday.
2017-04-28 07:52:37 Hagbard: congratulations to Altti on the birthday and good luck in the final!
2017-04-28 12:02:19 OdinHimself: Happy birthday Altti! Live long and prosper! :)
2017-04-29 08:50:03 Hagbard: Info: the timing limits are tightened a little bit: exceeding 15 days is a long game, and exceeding 30 days is a very long game. 9 out of 10 games will never notice. Still, when no time buffer left, you've always 1.5 days for current move before timing out.
2017-05-01 13:46:56 Hagbard: Test tournament: Imperial Contest. This game was produced 1855 in the UK by Jaques of London and was named "Imperial Contest", the first commercial hnefatafl game sold. NB the cargo ship moves max. 4 squares per move. (Hat tip Damian Walker).
2017-05-01 22:00:51 Tuireann: I have always wanted to try the Imperial Contest rules. The limiting of the king to 4 space moves is an interesting limitation for a strong king on edge escape.
2017-05-01 22:20:47 Hagbard: The Imperial Contest is probably our best Sea Battle 9x9 configuration. The king moves limitation is a clever way of adjusting the game balance, and such an adjustment is probably needed for the 9x9 board; but not needed for the larger boards where adjusting can be done through the setup of pieces.
2017-05-05 17:35:53 Hagbard: Attention! May 17th there is a Board Game Studies Colloquium in Copenhagen with participating historical board game university researchers from many countries. If anyone here has thought of some clever question about tafl, which these people possibly could shed light on, please tell.
2017-05-08 07:55:08 Hagbard: test tournament, there's one more chance with Ard Ri: Ard Ri-1 friendly-throne. King armed, moves only one step, wins on edge, captured from 2 sides, but the throne is friendly
2017-05-09 17:58:54 xerxes: @Hagbard: Ref the new Ard Ri tournament. I think there is a bug. In my game as Black vs Jrton80, Jrton80 has just moved his king 2 squares (D4-B4).
2017-05-09 18:22:18 Hagbard: @xerxes: Thanks! The bug is corrected, and the two-step move is removed.
2017-05-09 20:24:37 xerxes: Thanks Hagbard
2017-05-13 15:49:37 Hagbard: casshern won the Skalk Hnefatafl 11x11 test tournament. Thanks for your patience with this variant; summary in the forum: http://aagenielsen.dk/hnefataflforum/viewtopic.php?f=1&p=870#p870
2017-05-14 08:34:36 OdinHimself: Hello Hagbard, would it be possible for you to post some photos (1 or 2) of my tafl board in the Gallery section? If it's not too obtrusive of course, if you have some privacy site policy I can understand.
2017-05-14 09:20:26 Hagbard: @OdinHimself: Certainly, I'll be glad to! You could mail the photos to my email address written at the bottom of this page.
2017-05-14 15:56:12 OdinHimself: Thanks Hagbard! But when I click the Email-address link nothing happens. I mean I can't see the address.
2017-05-14 16:39:40 Hagbard: hnef AT aagenielsen DOT dk
2017-05-14 20:34:25 Plantagenet: @Hagbard: Why am I in the inability to create a secondary account?
2017-05-14 20:52:18 OdinHimself: hnef_aagenielsen.dk?
2017-05-14 21:53:52 Hagbard: @OdinHimself: AT = '@' and DOT = '.'
2017-05-14 21:55:10 Hagbard: @Plantagenet: Some players such as Helfrich are much against duplicate aliases.
2017-05-15 06:15:30 OdinHimself: Thank you Hagbard! :)
2017-05-15 09:56:57 Plantagenet: In that case, how did I do to play against certain players? I ask this question because, as Plantagenêt, I can only invite mmagari, herjan, Odinhimself, casshern, altti, siegfried, fjorlag, animals, sqaree and Ded fomich and not all the other players.
2017-05-15 11:25:21 Hagbard: The "Choose opponents" lists players rated from 300 below till 600 above. But perhaps this limit should be adjusted. Open invitations can be accepted by anyone, however.
2017-05-16 08:36:23 Hagbard: New in gallery: OdinHimself's tafl boards!
2017-05-16 11:36:16 OdinHimself: Thanks Hagbard! Cool!
2017-05-16 15:49:09 xerxes: A lovely set of boards Lucho. I'd say more than 'cool' !
2017-05-16 15:49:21 xerxes: By the way, one or two players have been asking after 'Crust' (Tim). Adam tells me that Tim is well and is just currently taking a break from the online tafl world. Hopefully we will see Tim back on here before too long.
2017-05-16 20:07:18 OdinHimself: Second that! I miss Tim. He was the first opponent I played against. And he always has been nice to me, a real gentleman!
2017-05-16 20:09:36 OdinHimself: Oh, I forgot to thank you for liking my boards xerxes! I appreciate it! :)
2017-05-17 17:36:15 Ded Fomich: @xerxes Thank you for the good news about Tim, it makes us happy to hear that.
2017-05-17 17:39:10 Ded Fomich: By the way, I'm a proud owner of Tablut board designed by OdinHimself, it rocks! \m/ I will never stop thanking you for it, Lucho!
2017-05-17 17:45:16 Ded Fomich: I also have a great Tablut board made by Steiger, it rocks too! \m/ Thanks a million, Sanya! In our community we have not only strong players, but great carving masters too. You are real heroes of hnefatafl renaissance (© Tim Millar), my friends!
2017-05-17 17:49:40 Steiger: @Ded Fomich, Thanks for your support, kumpel!
2017-05-17 18:12:55 Steiger: I'm glad to hear that is Crust are fine too!
2017-05-17 18:30:02 OdinHimself: \m/ \m/ Both Alexanders \m/ \m/ We also became friends, never mind we started as opponents. It's being a pleasure knowing you guys and playing against each other without malice, just the contrary - we help each other and improve not only our knowledges, but tafl's Renaissance! I think the tafl world has now raised a very strong generation, we've grown as united and friendly community and this rejoices my heart! Let's bring Hnefatafl to the world brothers!!!
2017-05-17 20:50:46 Steiger: Word from word gave words to me, Deed from deed gave deeds to me \m/.
2017-05-20 10:04:48 OdinHimself: Havamal! :)
2017-05-20 10:17:03 Steiger: A powerful formula for growth!
2017-05-20 10:49:00 Steiger: As told me my grandfather: под лежачий камень вода не течёт
2017-05-20 17:07:57 OdinHimself: Wise!
2017-05-23 15:13:39 xerxes: @Hagbard. In the Brandubh Throneless comp, I would have thought the King could be captured by two players if he is on the centre square (see my game as Black vs Jrton80).
2017-05-23 16:32:35 Hagbard: He most certainly is. Thanks.