Hnefatafl forum

Are the Ks knights after all?

No, they're not. Just guards who cannot take an cannot be taken...

After several test games and a tournament, it's been proven that this game favors black too much... This is mainly due to the unbeatable and non-capturing guards, which are hindering white too much and even provide shelter to attacking black pieces... So instead of helping white, they actually help black!
Therefore, we (=Hagbard and me) agreed on deleting the guards altogether... and relocating the white V-men closer to the king, like originally intended. The ongoing tournament still features the 2 guards, but below I show the new set-up.

Another improvement to the 17 x 17 Alea Berserk (Martens) concept: I changed the starting positions of the black V-men, so that they become more involved in the game ... they exchanged places with 4 commanders. See image below

Since the omission of the guards, this game variant Tyr 17 x 17 (formerly called 'Alea Berserk Martens 2') seems to be very much in balance, but the upcoming tournament has to prove it for sure. I hope many of you will give it a try... By the way, I call it 'Tyr' like the Nordic god of war, whose name was shouted out when vikings attacked.

Hi! I was just wondering what's the current status of Tyr. From the rulebook, it mentions a starting position with just commanders on a 15x15, and it proposes the 11x11 and 15x15 Simple Tyr.

I was looking through the archives and it seems like the "Simple" versions have now been named just "Tyr", and the version with the commanders is renamed to "Old Tyr 15x15". Has there been developments since then where it is found that the simple version without special pieces makes the best game?

EDIT: So I just found out about the small forum. I have a lot more to read it seems, but I found the discussion on this, for which I'll paste here just in case anyone stumbles upon this:

2022-02-04 14:59:14 MasterLuke: Right now, I have this conversation with an opponent in the Philippe Schober Hnefatalf app, regarding a 'defintive' or 'standard' Tyr game variant.
This is my conclusion, see text below:
'So far, the game we know as 'Simple Tyr' - be it on 11x11 or 15x15 board - is the most homogeneous and balanced game and we might call this the 'standard' Tyr variant. There is also 'Tyr' (without the Simple prefix) which includes jumping commanders. It's only 2 years we're trying out different possibilities... which is nothing compared to the 1500 years lifespan of Tafl. I think, in time 'Tyr' will fade away and 'Simple Tyr' will become 'Tyr'. It's an ongoing process, really.'
Somebody here got remarks or opinions otherwise?

2022-02-10 20:12:00 MasterLuke: Hi, folks!
In the near future the 'regular' Tyr game variants (with jumping commanders) will be called 'Old Tyr' and classified for the archives... This I asked Hagbard and we agreed upon it, because too few people play it. The game variant we now call 'Simple Tyr' (without commanders) is besides more balanced also way more popular and will be called just 'Tyr' and replace current 'Tyr'. In the meantime, Hagbard and I will test a new set up on a 13x13 format (with the Simple Tyr moniker for now).

Yeah, and to make things more complicated: at this very moment you can play some tournaments featuring the ‘Alea Berserk (Martens)’ variant, which is indeed the forerunner of Tyr - with commanders and V-men but without the guards .

Overview of the Martens variants.

There are 22 Martens variants.
All of them have:

• weak king
• no special squares
• berserk moves

Variant number 133, Alea Berserk 17x17 (Martens 0)
The variant has Commanders, Variegated men and immortal Guards.
The idea of immortal Guards was left.
5.2.2025 renamed to Loki.

Variant numbers 134, 135, 136, Odin 17x17, 13x13 and 15x15.
The variants have Commanders and Variegated men.
The Commanders can short jump over enemy men.
Variegated men shift color when captured.

Variant numbers 137, 138, 139, 140, 141, 142, 143, 144, Old Tyr-2 and Old Tyr!
The variants have a king who can short jump over other pieces.
The idea of a jumping king was left.

Variant numbers 145, 150, 151, 154, 172, Tyr 15x15, 13x13, 11x11, 9x9 and 13x13.
No special pieces.

Variant numbers 155, 156, 164, 165, 190, Thor 15x15, 11x11, 17x17, 11x11 and 15x15.
Only Commanders.
Commanders can short jump over own men as well as enemy men.

The Commanders in the Thor game can short jump over both enemy and own men (but not over officers like the king or other commanders).
I wonder if the Variegated Men should be considered officers also, or just considered to be normal men who change side all the time.

The Commander jumping any normal piece, is just a piece with great mobility flowing freely through the board.
I do not imagine the commander to actually jump over a man, but instead he has the unusual ability to move around a man to the other side.

Luk Martens suggests, that this type Commander could be used also in the Odin games.

I'd say that if this works well, then this is how a Commander should be, and the Commander jumping both enemy and own men should then be used everywhere, also in the Berserk 11x11.