Hnefatafl Internet Championship

Hagbard
Posts: 409
Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2015 6:07 pm

Re: Hnefatafl Internet Championship

Post by Hagbard » Sat Jul 26, 2014 3:28 pm

Sonneborn-Berger is a clever principle. So:
1. points scored in this round
in case of a tie:
2. direct comparison of the games of the tied players (for this round)
3. Sonneborn-Berger score calculated for this round
in case of still a tie:
4. preliminary round: both players proceed. Final: new rounds until one wins (only to find the tournament winner).

nath
Posts: 29
Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:34 pm

Re: Hnefatafl Internet Championship

Post by nath » Mon Jul 28, 2014 10:37 am

Your suggestion for ties is a good idea. That should be more fair.
I like also your idea of smaller groups for the preliminary rounds. What kind of system do you suggest exactly? I think it is kind of interesting to make groups out of 5-7 players with a focus on five (13 players a group of 6 and a group of 7, 16 players a group of 6 and two groups of 5). If we let advance the upper half rounded down the most dissatisfying would be 18 (3 groups of 6) ? 9. In that case we would need one wildcard and a additional round just to kick one player per group out. Of course we need wildcards anyways. If we start with 13 (12) players (6+7) we need 2 wildcards to get to 8 in the final. But maybe it's a good solution to make a final round with 9 players instead of adding a extra round in this case.

Hagbard
Posts: 409
Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2015 6:07 pm

Re: Hnefatafl Internet Championship

Post by Hagbard » Thu Jul 31, 2014 8:28 pm

nath wrote:I like also your idea of smaller groups for the preliminary rounds. What kind of system do you suggest exactly? I think it is kind of interesting to make groups out of 5-7 players with a focus on five
...
If we let advance the upper half rounded down
As an average game length is 60 moves, each preliminary round will take more than a month. Since we want to see a result, it would be better to restrict the tournament to one single preliminary round, if in any way possible.

Smaller groups of 5-7 players, upper half rounded down, would be efficient. Whatever division to give the most efficient round when given the number of participants.

Hagbard
Posts: 409
Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2015 6:07 pm

Hnefatafl Internet Championship

Post by Hagbard » Sat Jan 03, 2015 1:56 pm

This is my bid for an evaluation of the Championship Tournament 2014:

What worked well.
  • A month of signing in before the tournament.
  • Tournament start at September 1st, which is after summer holidays.
  • Splitting the tournament into a Preliminary Round 1 and a Final Round 2, and splitting Round 1 into four subgroups and Round 2 into three subgroups. This way the whole tournament was done with 308 games instead of 600. This year 25 players participated, and the method can handle many more, splitting into more groups if necessary.
  • Using the Thue–Morse sequence to distribute players for Round 1 resulted in very even groups.
  • Transferring completed games directly from Round 1 to Round 2 saved time and ressources.
  • An Asgård Final with the strongest players, and that all players had their Round 2 Final.
  • That everybody can join the tournament. We had this year several new names, who turned out to be strong players.
  • Use of the Sonneborn-Berger principle a.o. in case of a tie, as described in this note (not needed this year):
    [link not working]
  • We remembered this year to have an umpire (Tim Millar). Not much to do for the umpire, though, which reflects that it's not easy to find holes in the rules.
  • The new Facebook site, which reported and commented on interesting game positions.
  • We found again the right winner, as usual. Congratulations to World Tafl Federation Champion 2014, Schachus, Berlin, Germany!
What must be improved next time.
  • The sign in for the tournament must have an Are-You-Sure step.
  • Players who time out much in Round 1 must not continue to Round 2. There should be a rule: "A player who causes more than half of his Round 1 games to time out, cannot proceed to Round 2."
  • The timeout method must be changed. This year the timeout limits were: "10 days for latest 10 moves" in Round 1 and "20 days for latest 10 moves" in Round 2. It worked fairly well for Round 1, but resulted in a much prolonged Round 2. Next time the limit will probably be "1 day per move and Round one 8 days buffer, Round two 15 days buffer."
Thanks to the 25 players for a long row of fascinating tournament games!
And many thanks to Tim Millar (crust), Adam Bartley (Adam), Arne Roland (nath) and Schachus, who were a great help in planning the tournament! And to Tim Millar for being umpire of the tournament.
Last edited by Hagbard on Tue Mar 24, 2015 9:23 am, edited 2 times in total.

nath
Posts: 29
Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:34 pm

Re: Hnefatafl Internet Championship

Post by nath » Sun Jan 11, 2015 10:24 pm

Regarding the championship itself I'd like to have a final (I suggest at least two matches e.g. four games) between a challenger and the world champion. They can also run paralell (with for example 10 days offset). We could generate the challenger as the winner of a mass tournament like we did this year.

That would further decrease the randomness of timeouts. Even if you can qualify though timeouts as challenger you still have to proof yourself as superior player against the champion. This year we have a superior winner, but I'd prefer a duel. That would also gennerate top level games between very strong players and fun to watch. For hnefatafl interested people outside of asgard itself it will likely not be fun to watch 72 Asgard games, but 4 final games at a even higher level could be interesting for a bigger audience.

I also doubt that the time control with 0.1 days buffered per move is a good idea (like I wrote in the chat). I personally can't deal with that.

Adam
Posts: 115
Joined: Fri Mar 20, 2015 1:28 pm

Re: Hnefatafl Internet Championship

Post by Adam » Thu Jan 22, 2015 7:17 pm

I like the idea of a four game final 'clash of the titans'. Though it could result in a draw, so there should be a play off in such an event. One thing I wonder about: if the reigning world champion plays in the mass tournament, and is thrashed by superior players, what advantage is there to that player then having a rematch with the new strongest player? I don't really buy this idea of a mass tournament being won by someone getting lucky with timeouts. If players commit to playing a tournament game, its their lookout if they can't keep to the clock and finish their moves on time. Its seriously doubt it is randomness, more likely its poor time management with a hint of bad luck thrown in some cases. Of course things may crop up unexpectedly, leading to a time out. That's life. People die during live chess tournaments (actually true, happened this year) maybe the dead guy deserved to win. But if you can't take part, you can't win. If you can't finish your games, you can't Be the champion. Timeouts are an annoying but inevitable part of online gameplay as being overly generous with time is open to abuse. Non tournament games could in principal have infinite time as an option. But tournaments surely need regulation that applies to all?

Hagbard
Posts: 409
Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2015 6:07 pm

Re: Hnefatafl Internet Championship

Post by Hagbard » Thu Jan 14, 2016 11:46 pm

Evaluation of the Championship Tournament 2015.

What worked well:
A month of signing in before the tournament.
Are-You-Sure step in the sign in for the tournament.
That everybody can join. We had again new names, who turned out to be strong players.
Tournament start at September 1st, after summer holidays.
Using the Thue–Morse sequence to distribute players in even groups for Round 1.
Splitting the tournament into two rounds, and splitting both Round 1 and Round 2 into three subgroups. The resulting 6-8 players for each group was adequate. A Round 1 group should not be too small, and the Asgarthr final had only 7 players which was also adequate.
The timeout method worked well. 1 day per move and Round one 7 days buffer, Round two 14 days buffer. The winner was found after 92 days.

Players who timed out much, were disqualified.
If a player didn't move at all during the first eight days of Round 1, he was removed, and the same with Round 2 and 15 days.
Also a player who caused more than half of his Round games to time out, was disqualified.
5 players were disqualified by these rules.

Use of the Sonneborn-Berger principle a.o. in case of a tie.
Transferring finished games directly from Round 1 to Round 2, saving time and ressources.
Asgarthr Final with the strongest players, and that all players had their Round 2 Final.

Longest game: 154 moves.
Shortest game: 13 moves.

Congratulations to World Tafl Federation Champion 2015, Adam Bartley, Tønsberg, Norway!
Many thanks to Tim Millar for being the umpire!
And to the 17 players who finished the tournament!

Hagbard
Posts: 409
Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2015 6:07 pm

Re: Hnefatafl Internet Championship

Post by Hagbard » Wed Apr 13, 2016 10:22 pm

Proposition for a small change of tournament rules for the World Tafl Federation Championship 2016:
  • only one player from each preliminary group proceeds to the final.
  • there's only one final group: Asgarthr with the tournament winner and new world champion. Players who don't qualify for Asgarthr have no more games.
So,
Sign up: all August. There will be a facility for signing up for the tournament.
Start: September 1st.

Tournament rules.
The Copenhagen rules, described here.

Points are 1 for won, 0 for lost and 0.5 for a draw.
Umpire: xxx. For xxx's games, umpire is yyy.

The Thue-Morse sequence is used to distribute players in groups for Round 1 based on ratings.
One player per preliminary group qualify for the final.

In case of a tie:
1. direct comparison of the games of the tied players (for this round).
2. Sonneborn-Berger score calculated for this round.
in case of still a tie:
3. preliminary round: both players proceed. Final: new rounds until one wins.

Preliminary round: time buffer 7 days (!!)
Final round: time buffer 14 days.
But even if a player has no time buffer left, he has always 1.5 day to do his current move.
(Please remember that the time buffer is meant for use when away on weekend or vacation. Could be unwise to use it up in everyday moves.)

If at any time you want to leave the tournament, just say so.
If a player does not move at all during the first eight days of Round 1, he is removed from the tournament. The same with Round 2 and 15 days.
A player who causes more than half of his Round games to time out, is disqualified from the tournament.
If the 2015 tournament with 23 players had run by these rules, there would've been these four preliminary groups:
  • adam, duhawk93, kratzer, chuck ward, dansuno, gilrowen
  • altti, mmagari, arevidar, sybil, patterson, alexystw
  • docbullen, sqaree, epoc, vonraider, aluric, xerxes
  • crust, animals, steiger, imaxuncut, mykle
Five players would've proceeded to Asgarthr:
adam, altti, docbullen, crust, animals (crust and animals were a tie in Round 1. Xerxes withdrew, Alexystw was disqualified).
And Adam would've won the tournament; same result with fewer games.

Every Asgarthr player would in all meet 8 opponents, 16 games. Other players would meet 4 opponents, 8 games. Total 110 games.
(2015 everybody met 11 opponents, 22 games. Total 231 games.
Everybody against everybody like it was before 2014 would've been 420 games...)

Hagbard
Posts: 409
Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2015 6:07 pm

Re: Hnefatafl Internet Championship

Post by Hagbard » Fri Jun 17, 2016 11:45 am

Proposition for tournament rules for the World Tafl Federation Championship 2016:

Sign up: all August. There will be a facility for signing up for the tournament.
Start: September 1st.

Tournament rules.
Round 1: Historical Hnefatafl 11x11 rules (Welsh Tawlbwrdd) [which of the two possible setups not decided for yet]. Or the Saami Tablut 9x9 rules, which are well defined and well tested. All described here:
http://aagenielsen.dk/historical_hnefatafl_rules.php

Round 2: The Copenhagen rules, described here:
http://aagenielsen.dk/copenhagen_rules.php

Points are 1 for won, 0 for lost and 0.5 for a draw.
Umpire: xxx. For xxx's games, umpire is yyy.

The Thue-Morse sequence is used to distribute players in groups for Round 1 based on ratings.
One (!!) player per preliminary group qualify for the final.

In case of a tie:
1. direct comparison of the games of the tied players (for this round).
2. Sonneborn-Berger score calculated for this round.
in case of still a tie:
3. preliminary round: both players proceed. Final: new rounds until one wins.

Preliminary round: time buffer 7 days (!!)
Final round: time buffer 14 days.
But even if a player has no time buffer left, he has always 1.5 day to do his current move.
(Please remember that the time buffer is meant for use when away on weekend or vacation. Could be unwise to use it up in everyday moves.)

If at any time you want to leave the tournament, just say so.
If a player does not move at all during the first eight days of Round 1, he is removed from the tournament. The same with Round 2 and 15 days.
A player who causes more than half of his Round games to time out, is disqualified from the tournament.

Round 1:
The preliminary groups are named Heithabyr, Tunsberg, Fornebei and Vinland.

Round 2:
The final group (with the future Hnefatafl World Champion) is named Valhallah.
All other players will also have their own finals, divided into three final groups based on the Round 1 results. The groups are named Asgarthr, Mithgarthr and Utgarthr.

Hagbard
Posts: 409
Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2015 6:07 pm

Re: Hnefatafl Internet Championship

Post by Hagbard » Thu Jun 30, 2016 11:05 am

In a month (August 1st) sign in will begin for the World Tafl Federation Championship 2016. You can sign in all August, there'll be a button for it, and the games will begin September 1st.

The previous two years we've tournamented two rounds, all games being by Copenhagen rules. All participants of 2015 had 24 games of Copenhagen, which can be exhausting, Copenhagen being a hard game. And two rounds Copenhagen requires a long tournament time, the 2015 tournament was finished December 19th.

I suggest that we this time use the Saami Tablut 9x9 (Historical Hnefatafl 9x9) for Round 1 and Copenhagen 11x11 for Round 2. Saami Tablut is our best documented historical hnefatafl game, coming directly from the famous Carl von Linné diary 1732.

A black win of Saami takes in average 24 moves; for Copenhagen in average 63 moves. So using Saami for Round 1 can be expected to cut off roughly 40 days from the tournament time, finishing the tournament around November 10th.

If there are fx. 25 players in the tournament, each player will have only 8 games of Saami (Round 1) and 8 games of Copenhagen (Round 2).

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