9x9 Corner Win

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dashstofsk
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9x9 Corner Win

Post by dashstofsk » Tue Mar 29, 2022 3:41 pm

Is there any variant here that is played with a corner win objective, on a 9x9 board?

Draganov
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Re: 9x9 Corner Win

Post by Draganov » Thu Mar 31, 2022 1:38 pm

Yes, there are some variants like Skalk Hnefatafl but they are not well-balanced. It is really difficult for the whites to reach the corner in 9x9 especially if the king is weak. If the king is strong and is captured from four sides, then it is little bit easier but the blacks still have advantage.

dashstofsk
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Re: 9x9 Corner Win

Post by dashstofsk » Fri Apr 01, 2022 12:27 pm

Yes, I can see in the Games Archive that 9x9 'corner win' was trialled and found to be unbalanced.

However, it would be nice if a workable set of rules were found. Many people like to play Tafl on the smaller board sizes and 9x9 'corner win' would fill a gap within the variants already offered.

Now then, I have an idea for a 9x9 'corner win' game which I believe will work.

Firstly, the board setup needs to be 'white square' from the Ealdfaeder game as given at Cyningstan [ http://tafl.cyningstan.com/page/689/eal ... aefl-rules ]. From the start, ( and unlike in the Tablut setup, ) the King's side can throw a pawn at a warrior camp and make an immediate challenge. The need for the warrior side to defend will give the King side a momentum that should move the balance a bit in the direction of equity.

Secondly, the 'no throne' rule needs to be played. Without a central hostile square it will allow the King the freedom to move away without leaving the neighbouring pawns 'en prise' - an advantage to the King side which should also move the balance.

Thirdly, ( and this is my personal invention, ) the game can be played with 'group capture'. A connected group of pieces of either side will be captured if it has been surrounded by enemy men or by the sides of the board or any restricted square, and has no liberties, outside or inside.

In summary, Ealdfaeder setup, no throne, group capture. All will move the balance. Strong King.

For some time now I have been using a computer program to assist me in my games of Tafl. Using it I have found the 9x9 'corner win' game above to be promising. I do hope that it will be possible to implement and trial it here.

Am I alone in this?
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Draganov
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Re: 9x9 Corner Win

Post by Draganov » Sun Apr 03, 2022 11:16 pm

Although I have never tried this variant, it seems for me unbalanced and strange. I think it will be almost imposible for the whites to lose the game. The strong king captured from 4 sides will be pratically immortal. The blacks will need to block the corners and they will need to involve 12 vikings to do that. They will have only 4 vikings left to capture the king. Moreover, the whites can easily place a viking in one or even two of the corners from the beginning. For me it looks drawish or with the whites winning.

dashstofsk
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Re: 9x9 Corner Win

Post by dashstofsk » Tue Apr 05, 2022 9:51 am

Yes, I understand. It will be difficult for the warriors to capture the King.

However, the objectives for each side are the same as in Old Hnefatafl. Namely, the King's side has to get the King to a corner. And that the objective of the warrior side is to prevent this, by any means. They can achieve this by capturing the King, but also by surrounding the King with a blockade that cannot be broken, or achieving infinite repetition. If there is a blockade or repetition then the King will never reach safety, so the attacking side have their winning objective. Win by blockade is rule 7b as given in the page of rules, http://aagenielsen.dk/fetlar_rules_en.php. Win by repetition is rule 8 in http://aagenielsen.dk/copenhagen_rules.php.

No draw is possible if the attacking side's objective is stated in this way.

So a lasting blockade around the corners is a win for them. It will be up to the King and his men to prevent a blockade by challenging the warriors in their camps and using the strength of the King to assist in this. Of course if the King drives too deeply into the warrior camps he is in danger of being captured against an edge ( by the 'group capture' rule ).

But if the attacking side were to commit 12 warriors to holding the corners then it would have only 4 men for other moves. The King's side could posssibly outmanoeuvre those 4, capture them and then the attacking side would be forced to have to break up its corner holdings.

Will the King and his men manage to do it? Both sides will need to be vigilant and be aware of the possibilities that can arise with 'group capture'. Might be an exciting battle.

Draganov
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Re: 9x9 Corner Win

Post by Draganov » Tue Apr 05, 2022 6:25 pm

Let's play this variant correspondently. I would like to check it. I can play with the whites in the first game. We can start a new not rated game with time x 10 in any other variant, for example in the Copenhagen variant and just use this game to exchange moves in the chat. After the game is over, we can post the moves here in the forum to be reviewed by the other players.

dashstofsk
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Re: 9x9 Corner Win

Post by dashstofsk » Wed Apr 06, 2022 7:58 pm

Well thanks. I would be happy to play some games with you of this variant. However, there is an easier way for us to play the games. There is a web site where this variant is already playable, to the rules above. Go to http://www.dashstofsk.net/gorrion.php

I am the author of that web site. It is badly in need of more users. Hopefully you might find it will give a slightly different playing experience.

I have placed an invitation to Ealdfaeder in the Waiting Room there.

dashstofsk
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Re: 9x9 Corner Win

Post by dashstofsk » Sun Apr 10, 2022 3:05 pm

I am also proposing an additional rule. The King will be unarmed. All captures will be made with a pawn move. Initial games on Gorrion seem to show that the King is too strong otherwise. [ Not quite true any more. See later post. The King will be fully unarmed. ]

'Unarmed' here means that a black pawn can still be captured if trapped between the King and a white pawn, but the trap needs to be closed by the pawn. If the King were to make the move then there is no capture. I don't know whether 'unarmed' means the same here at aagenielsen.dk for Sea Battle games. [ See later post. The King will be fully unarmed. ]
Last edited by dashstofsk on Tue Oct 18, 2022 2:59 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Draganov
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Re: 9x9 Corner Win

Post by Draganov » Sun Apr 10, 2022 7:29 pm

As I thought, this variant is in favour of the whites. If you make the king to be unarmed, it will be in huge favour of the blacks. If the king is unarmed, the whites should win by reaching the edge and not the corners like in the so called Sea Battle variants. In my opinion, we just need to get rid of this group capturing in order to make the game little bit more balanced. However, I still think the whites will have better winning chances.

dashstofsk
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Re: 9x9 Corner Win

Post by dashstofsk » Tue Apr 12, 2022 3:22 pm

After having made a few trial games on Gorrion and some deliberation, some changes to the rules:

The King will be unarmed. He will not assist in any captures.

Group Capture. A connected group of pieces will be captured if it has been surrounded by enemy men or by the sides of the board or by a corner square and has no liberties, outside or inside. The King cannot assist in the capture. If the King is part of the group he is captured. A lone piece can form a group on its own.

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