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Re: Brandubh 7x7

Posted: Wed Sep 04, 2019 5:22 pm
by branan
First of all, thank you Aage for giving a test to these ideas!

I don't know how the balance could move, but if I refer to this:
cyningstan wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2015 12:23 pm
.../... I've compared it to the game on Dragonheels' Lair that uses my old rules. Of 314 games, there were 144 white wins against 166 black, with 4 draws. Using Aage's notation that, I think, gives a balance of -1.15 overall. .../...
The rules quoted above could be found there: http://www.dragonheelslair.com/en/rulesbrandubh.php

Main changes are that King is captured by only 2 attackers everywhere (even on throne) and the throne is not hostile. This explain why the balance is -1.15.

This is why I proposed something a bit less in favor of attackers. Even if I suspect the "noreturn" variant will be the more balanced.

It could also be possible we have to combine the 2 variants to balance the game. ;)

Re: Brandubh 7x7

Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2019 1:16 pm
by branan
branan wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 5:22 pm
It could also be possible we have to combine the 2 variants to balance the game. ;)
We've done several games Hnefihunter and myself with [king2nextthrone + noreturn] and it shows it's too much in favour of attackers.

We don't know king2nextthrone's current balance but it looks pretty good to us.

Re: Brandubh 7x7

Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 7:06 am
by Hagbard
branan wrote:
Sun Oct 13, 2019 1:16 pm
We've done several games Hnefihunter and myself with [king2nextthrone + noreturn] and it shows it's too much in favour of attackers.

We don't know king2nextthrone's current balance but it looks pretty good to us.
Measured Brandubh game balances at the moment:
Ordinary rules: +1.49
King cannot return to throne: +1.36
King captured next to the throne by 2 blacks: +1.08
- And your experiments with king cannot return AND captured next to the throne by 2 blacks: << 1.08

Re: Brandubh 7x7

Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:17 pm
by branan
Hagbard wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 7:06 am
Measured Brandubh game balances at the moment:
Ordinary rules: +1.49
King cannot return to throne: +1.36
King captured next to the throne by 2 blacks: +1.08
Hagbard, did you compute king2nextthrone balance now tournament 146 ended?

Re: Brandubh 7x7

Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 7:32 am
by Hagbard
branan wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:17 pm
Hagbard, did you compute king2nextthrone balance now tournament 146 ended?
Yes, just did: +1.11
So king2nextthrone stood its ground after a test tournament and 140 test games.

Re: Brandubh 7x7

Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:06 pm
by branan
Hagbard wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 7:32 am
Yes, just did: +1.11
So king2nextthrone stood its ground after a test tournament and 140 test games.
Very good. It was also my feeling while playing. It makes the white job harder.

Re: Brandubh 7x7

Posted: Mon Nov 25, 2019 7:59 am
by Hagbard

king2nextthrone

Posted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 6:11 pm
by unhandyandy
There's one quirk about the new rules that bugs me a little. If the king moves from the throne to a neighboring square which is between two black pieces, then under the new rules immediately capturing the king is harder than under the old rules: previously the king could be captured by moving to surround it on the 3rd side, but the only way to capture it is to move one black piece away and back, taking two moves. Perhaps not a big deal, but unthematic if the intention of the new rule was to aid black.

Re: king2nextthrone

Posted: Sat Feb 01, 2020 10:34 am
by branan
unhandyandy wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 6:11 pm
There's one quirk about the new rules that bugs me a little. If the king moves from the throne to a neighboring square which is between two black pieces, then under the new rules immediately capturing the king is harder than under the old rules: previously the king could be captured by moving to surround it on the 3rd side, but the only way to capture it is to move one black piece away and back, taking two moves. Perhaps not a big deal, but unthematic if the intention of the new rule was to aid black.
In my mind, the new rule is only an addition to the old one. So a single move to surround the king on the 3 sides should work.

Re: Brandubh 7x7

Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2020 2:24 pm
by branan
Aage.

I updated the printable rules for king2nextthrone Brandubh (each attached archive contains docx and pdf). This version take care of the problem mentioned above by Andy.

The english version must be corrected by someone who know well the rules and speak english better than me. Once done, it could be used by everyone to translate rules and make a pdf in his own langage.

I also suggest we rename the two Brandubh variants actually in use on http://aagenielsen.dk/ like this:

Brandubh king2nextthrone 7x7 (Irish Brandubh 2) → Modern Irish Brandubh 7x7
Historical Hnefatafl 7x7 (Irish Brandubh 1) → Historical Irish Brandubh 7x7

What do you think about it?