Sahkku, Rules

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dashstofsk
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Sahkku, Rules

Post by dashstofsk » Sat Jul 10, 2021 6:11 pm

Would it be possible for the rules of Sahkku to appear somewhere on the web site, rather than just giving us a link to the Wikipedia page? The Wikipedia page gives too much information for a newcomer to get a quick understanding of the game.

Also are you aware that the Norwegian links to the rules for Sahkku, Daabloe, and Chuhkka are all giving 404 page errors?

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Hagbard
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Re: Sahkku, Rules

Post by Hagbard » Sun Jul 11, 2021 11:59 am

dashstofsk wrote:
Sat Jul 10, 2021 6:11 pm
Would it be possible for the rules of Sahkku to appear somewhere on the web site, rather than just giving us a link to the Wikipedia page? The Wikipedia page gives too much information for a newcomer to get a quick understanding of the game.

Also are you aware that the Norwegian links to the rules for Sahkku, Daabloe, and Chuhkka are all giving 404 page errors?
Thank you for the info. I discovered a few days ago that the Norwegian link stopped working.
The rules for Sahkku and Daldøs should probably be placed on this site too.

mihkkal
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Re: Sahkku, Rules

Post by mihkkal » Thu Jul 29, 2021 11:26 am

Norwegian links:
https://result.uit.no/reaidu/ressurser/ ... er/sahkku/
https://result.uit.no/reaidu/ressurser/ ... ter/dablo/
https://result.uit.no/reaidu/ressurser/ ... er/tablut/

English:
Wikipedia has a good overview over different Sáhkku rules: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%C3%A1hkku
On Facebook, the group (not page) Daabloe Sámi Board Games has a "files section" with English rules for Dablo, Sáhkku, and Tablut

Russian:
On Facebook, the group (not page) Daabloe Sámi Board Games has a "files section" with Russian rules for Dablo and Sáhkku.

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Hagbard
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Re: Sahkku, Rules

Post by Hagbard » Tue Nov 29, 2022 4:38 pm

Copied from the small forum Oct. 30th 2022:
Draganov: @Hagbard, I joined Thomas's invitation to play Daldos 3x12 and saw that we both started the game with three active pieces. Is this a new variant? I think this variant could be better than the old Daldos. However, is there any historical evidence that in Daldos both players start the game with already activated pieces or this is a modern invention?

Hagbard: The concept of three pieces awaken is brought over from the Sahkku start.
I have not heard of historical Daldøs sources describing this detail, but then again sources often are not fully explaining all details.

mihkkal: @Draganov @Hagbard The three pieces-rule in Sáhkku is also entirely novel. It's from the post-2015 revival of the game in Sápmi/Norway.
It's a necessary change for most Sáhkku games if you want to tilt the chance-strategy balance toward strategy. The Sáhkku game most used in live cup play, the Lágesvuotna variant, doesn't use it though. That's because in the Lágesvuotna variant you can't capture unactivated pieces. Still a huge disadvantage to get stuck with few X'es in the beginning but only a tactical disadvantage, you don't get that situation where your opponent decimates your pieces without you being able to do anything...

The start setup of the three Daldøs variants was changed, so that the players start with three awake pieces, the same as in Sahkku.

This solves a problem when one player could wait very long to get his first X, while his opponent in the meantime kills a lot of his dorment men.

The game balances apparently also respond positively to the change.

Game balances, all men sleeping:
Daldøs 3x12 -1.09
Daldøs 3x14 -1.13
Daldøs 3x16 -1.50

Game balances, three men awake:
Daldøs 3x12 +1.15
Daldøs 3x14 +1.04
Daldøs 3x16 +1.06

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Hagbard
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Re: Sahkku, Rules

Post by Hagbard » Mon Feb 06, 2023 9:38 pm

Received from Erik Østergaard, Denmark:
...
Egentlig opfatter jeg Daldøs som en overfortolkning af et grundlæggende forhold mellem kast og sektionslængde ved Tab-spil. Ideelt set bestemmes antal felter pr. sektion af det højeste kast med terningerne. Så (4+4)x2=16 felter. Ved fx indiske kvadratiske kapløbsspil er højeste kast det dobbelte af det næsthøjeste. Tænk hvis en spiller heroppe havde fået den ide. Terningen: 1-2-3-6. Heraf (6+6)x2=24 felter pr. sektion. Det var blevet en lang eftermiddag.

Ved Sahkku har man taget konsekvensen af ovenstående problemstilling, selvom det også er en del tydeligere, da sandsynligheden for at opnå højeste kastværdi falder betragteligt ved tilføjelse af en ekstra terning.

En sahkkuterning har typisk værdierne 0-1-2-3. Så en sektionslængde burde så være (3+3)x2=12. Kastes der med tre terninger får vi da (3+3+3)x2=18. Det vil gi et sløvt spil, da det er ulig sværere at få 3x3 end 2x3. Et godt kompromis er derfor antal felter midt imellem, nemlig 15. Så har man også en naturlig plads til kongen.

Ved Sahkku-spillet Sakko har man fået plads til kongen ved at forlænge hver sektion med et felt (12>13) men bibeholdt de 12 brikker. Der er kompenseret ved at 0-værdisiden er sat til 1 (x-1-2-3).
...

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Hagbard
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Re: Sahkku, Rules

Post by Hagbard » Sat Dec 16, 2023 5:09 pm

The Daldos variants are now tested for a year starting with 3 awake pieces as in Sahkku.

The haphazardness of the race games are measured to
Sahkku: 32%
Daldos14: 57%
Daldos16: 57%
Daldos12: 85%

These numbers show that
  • The Sahkku winner is determined much more by skills than by luck of dice.
    It requires as much skills to win in Sahkku as it does to win in tafl.
  • The Daldos14 and Daldos16 winner is determined about equally much by skills and by luck of dice.
  • The Daldos12 winner is determined mostly by luck of dice and not much by skills.

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